How does it feel to now be a taxpayer?

ZappasGuitar said:
The premiums are split between my wife and her employer.

And I made a mistake...we've got a $500.00 deductible per person.

My cancer surgery a few years back ran me $2,000.00 total, despite over $30,000.00 in various and sundry bills.
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So the actual cost of your plan is much more than the figures you cited, given the cost sharing w/her employer


Thanks for the info.
 
Dixie said:
I think you might want to look into that, because they certainly didn't pass taxes to pay for Obamacare. The president specifically promised he wasn't going to raise taxes on anyone making over $200k a yr. So how do you figure they passed taxes to pay for 40 million people to get health insurance? Didn't happen! What they did, was take money from Medicare and mandate costs to the states, and run around lying about how it wouldn't increase the debt or deficit. The SCOTUS ruling says they CAN'T do that... the money can't come from Medicare, and the states can't be forced to pay for it out of their Medicare funds. In order to fund this thing, Congress is going to have to enact specific tax legislation, and because it's a tax, a supermajority will be needed in both houses. Again... don't see that happening, but we shall find out come November... maybe people are fine with massive tax increases to pay for Obamacare? You better tap into some of that HOPE!
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I've already provided a link that refutes the Medicare claim you keep making.

Stop eating the shit the Right Wing pundits are shoveling at you
 
Dixie said:
I never pretended any such thing. What the hell makes you think "the dream" in America is to barely eek by? Whatever the fuck you do for a living... do you want to do it for nothing? Do you want to do it at cost? Is that YOUR goal and objective, to barely eek by? Then why the hell do you think you can make that the case for someone else? You don't want to contribute your skill or service for cost, do you? No, hell no! You want to get paid two or three times more than you're worth, and still bitch that you ain't getting enough! If your boss came in and offered you a $100 raise, would you say, "No thanks, sir.. I make enough already, I want to help my fellow man and do this work for LESS!" But it sounds like that's what you fucking expect these people to do!
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One is not dealing with people facing a life threatening situation. The medical community exploits the ill and dying. How many people shop around to compare prices when stricken with a heart attack or cancer?

You mentioned people's right to capitalize on their knowledge/business. Only scum would try to capitalize on the ill and dying.
 
Dixie said:
LMFAO.... SO you give me the 2200-page bill that no one has read?

Look... Find the part of the bill that says the tax rates for people over $200k is going up... that's all I want!

Let me save you the time of reading through the pile of shit... IT AIN'T IN THERE!

This thing was entirely funded by playing a shell game with Medicare funds, and offsetting the costs by 10 years, when Obama & Company are LONG GONE! There is no provision for a tax increase, anywhere in the legislation. There is a provision for certain people to pay an excise fee for so-called "cadillac plans" and there is a penalty and mandate, which the courts ruled could stand as a "tax" but there isn't a specific provision to increase tax rates on ANYONE! It would have NEVER passed Congress, had that been the case, because it would have taken a supermajority.... which it didn't have.
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Then we owe Obama kudos for getting it passed because nothing would ever get passed. After a century of discussions the people have had enough. Wars, depressions, boom times....it was never the right time. Talk, talk, talk. Now there is somethign to talk about. ObamaCare is a reality. It's time to fine tune the "government plan". The discussion over whether there should be a "government plan" has come to a conclusion. It's time to move on.
 
Dixie said:
I don't know why I should hate insurance companies, they are in business to make money. They can't provide insurance coverage if they don't. Now they charge a fee... a premium... and that is based on the number of times they have to pay a claim. Lots of things can factor into that, how often people get sick and use insurance, how healthy you are, how well you eat and exercise... all kinds of things. But the insurance company, figures out, based on what they are having to pay out in claims, about what they need to collect from me each month in the form of a premium, so that all the books add up at the end of the year, and they make a profit for their efforts. That's just how insurance works in the real world.
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Grossly innacurate. Your premiums are based on your demographic, not on your personal health history.

When you discuss the 'profit' the company makes, you seem to be ignoring the extraneous expenditures that are written off before said profit is calculated.

Dividends, CEO pay/bonus, lobbyists, etc.. There's plenty of waste.

Medicine for profit might really be our problem, but here's the deal on that... I have a daughter, several nieces and cousins, aunts, uncles... all members of my close family, who have devoted their lives to the medical profession. To a fault, every one of them has done so because they wanted to help people. Also, to a fault, each one of them was smart enough they could have done any number of other things... physics, engineering.. they are incredibly smart people. They spent an enormous amount of study time, learning procedures, passing certifications and registries, studying night and day without sleep, etc. Now here's the REAL problem... as generous and benevolent as they have been to devote their life to the medical profession, they just aren't willing to do what they do for nothing. I'm sure they would LOVE to be wealthy and not have expenses, but they do... so, they have this funny little tendency to want to get paid to do medical work. Dagnabit! And since what they do is really really complicated and important stuff, and they had to work and study so hard to be able to do it, they generally expect to be paid very well. Now I would just be willing to guess, if you suddenly didn't want to pay them, or wanted to substantially cut their pay, they might consider using their brains and doing something else in life besides medical work. And probably, since in your idea, this should be something that is free, a lot of young people out there looking to start careers, might think about that and say... yaa.. I kinda want to do something and get paid...so no... medical field-- not for me!

Don't you think?
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Why are meds most expensive in this country, where many are developed/manufactured?
 
Dixie said:
The ACT is NOT a TAX! No one has claimed it is!

The ONLY way the SCOTUS could find to allow the law to stand, was under Congressional power to tax.

Ergo: Obamacare IS essentially, a tax. The funding for it, is effectively a TAX, because it can't be anything else, and be constitutional.

Now, you can play funny cute little liberal semantics games with this... you have obviously heard this from some brainiac over at HuffPo... but the fact of the matter is, the Supreme Court ruled Obamacare can't stand under the commerce clause and can only be constitutional as a tax.

YES.... the penalty and the mandate are TAX... again... couldn't constitutionally exist if they weren't. The BILL is a 2,200 page document... it's not "a tax" it is a very comprehensive piece of legislation. The FUNDING for the bill, the thing that makes the bill functionally work... THAT is a TAX. It can't be anything else, and still be constitutional... or so the court ruled Thursday.
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Talk about semantics. If I recall there are laws that demand one have a place of residence although those laws are not always enforced. In other words one is not allowed to set up a "home" on the sidewalk or in a park. If they don't have a home they're considered a vagrant.

(Excerpt) In legal terminology, vagrancy refers to the offense of persons who are without visible means of support or domicile while able to work. State laws and municipal ordinances punishing vagrancy often also cover loitering, associating with reputed criminals, prostitution, and drunkenness. The punishment is usually a fine or several months in jail. Instead of arresting vagrants, local officials often attempt to induce them to move on. (End) http://definitions.uslegal.com/v/vagrancy/

Therefore, paying rent or a mortgage is actually a tax if one is obliged to do so and fined for not doing so. Perhaps people who oppose ObamaCare should start with abolishing vagrancy laws.
 
Dixie said:
No, I mentioned that Liberals like you and nimrod, believe in some magical medical fairy. I don't.

I believe that the Federal government, in coordination with the states, LONG AGO, established "universal health care" in America. Any city of 20k or more, some smaller, have a public health clinic, and it is completely free to use for people who have no means to pay. This is funded with our tax dollars already.... before anyone ever thought about Obamacare.

Why don't you ever actually address this point? Why is it, every time I bring this up, you run away and find something else to yammer about?

No... you and the other mental retard, find it more entertaining to pretend that I am contradicting my principles because I am obviously okay with state-run health clinics, but not complete federally-run health care. All I have done, is refute your LIE that poor people lack access to health care, or that we aren't already providing a form of "universal care" for every American.
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The point you miss is one is driven into poverty before help arrives and this is something I've addressed in several threads. Help always arrives too late; from medical help to welfare. After an individual has lost everything then help arrives. Their optimism, their positive outlook on life, their self-respect has been stripped away. Then people wonder why the broken individual is not jumping out of bed Monday morning rushing to a job interview. They have lost everything that've acquired over the last 20 years or however long they've been working and saving.

That's the problem. Now do you understand?
 
Jarod said:
Just so we are not duped by the idiots, ACA is not a tax, the penalty part of the mandate is!
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actually, from what I understand of the ruling, the cost of the mandated insurance, including the premiums paid, would be the tax, not just the penalty.....
 
Jarod said:
The only way they could find to allow the penalty provision of the mandate to stand was as a tax.

Your premise is wrong again!
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there is your error......the issue wasn't whether the penalty provision could stand, the issue was whether the mandate could stand....
 
apple0154 said:
After they've lost all their assets they've accumulated over decades of savings, thrown their spouse and children into poverty and endured the resulting stress help in on it's way.
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if that is what they have chosen to do.....remember, the issue isn't whether someone CAN have insurance, it's whether they CAN'T.......
 
Dixie said:
No, the government doesn't already have the funds. You've been misinformed.

What you are talking about, would require Federal regulation under the commerce clause... which can't happen now, because of SCOTUS.

Regardless of what you believe it would be cheaper for the government to do, their hands are tied here... they can't do what you think they should, it violates the constitution. They can pass a TAX to do this, but that's not going to happen... Obamacare would have NEVER passed as a tax.
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But it will pass as a tax as soon as the citizens realize the benefits. In the long run, over the big picture, everyone saves as has been shown in every other country with government medical. No exception. Do you understand there is no exception? Opponents can not point to any country and say their medical costs more than in the US.

Call it a tax. Call it a contribution. Call it anything you want as long as you state the truth and facts about it. If the bottom line is people will be paying less then it doesn't matter what one calls it. If the government decided to raise everyones tax by $1,000/yr and in return pay everyones rent or mortgage payments would people object to the tax? Anyone other than a vagrant? By everyone contributing to ObamaCare everyone who normally buys health insurance will save as witnessed by the citizens in every country that has government insurance.

ObamaCare does need some fine tuning and that's what Obama will be working on next term. The Repubs have a choice to either participate (remember the old adage, "to get along, you go along") or be left out like they were last time. It's up to them but come '16 if they haven't changed their tune they'll be out in the cold.

The old way is over, Dix. As a responsible person who buys helath insurance you'll see it is much better. Don't despair.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
??????....we don't even have the funds to pay for the SS and Medicare programs we currently have, let alone Obamacare......
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Don't forget the deal the Super Committee made concerning the budget and cutting the military that was reneged under the Repubs. How do you ever expect to have money for social programs when that happens? Maybe Obama will look into that, as well. As I've said the money is there. It's just a matter of directing it to appropriate places.
 
Dixie said:
Read through the whole thing, didn't see a tax increase for people making over $200k in there. Sorry! Try again!
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Well, you didn't read section 9015. But, in any event, that's not the primary tax. You're doing some goalpost moving here as you flail about.
 
Dixie said:
Yurt understands the same thing I am telling you.

The BILL ITSELF is a comprehensive piece of legislation, it has all kinds of regulations and guidelines that don't have a thing to do with tax. The funding for the bill, the thing that makes the bill function in practicality... is a TAX. It can't be anything else, and be constitutional. This includes the cost of implementing it, the penalties, the mandates... ALL of it is TAX... it can't exist constitutionally, otherwise. The court found, the commerce clause does not apply, it can't be regulated by the Federal government using the commerce clause. It can appropriate a TAX to fund it, if Congress wants. That is left entirely to Congress.
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There is no funding. It's not a tax. Let yurt speak for himself!
 
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