What happens if America loses its unions???

Yurt said:
no. no.

now, do they negotiate contracts, employment benefits etc? you're trying to make them the same when they clearly are not.
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They do not have to negotiate rates, contracts etc. because it is a cosy cartel. Certainly if it is anything like the UK there are set minimum rates for solicitors and barristers. Maggie T, to her great credit, managed to stop some of the more shameful Spanish practices whereby only barristers could appear in a Crown Court and only solicitors could perform conveyancing on properties.
 
No country that denies the basic rights of workers a say in their future and the future of their country can ever be called civilised. The nature of capitalism running free is to exploit.
That is what it does. Period.
 
Lowaicue said:
No country that denies the basic rights of workers a say in their future and the future of their country can ever be called civilised. The nature of capitalism running free is to exploit.
That is what it does. Period.
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Umm unions are the epitome of capitalism. Bargaining and selling an intangible thing (labor) is capitalism.
 
C'Thulhu said:
Umm unions are the epitome of capitalism. Bargaining and selling an intangible thing (labor) is capitalism.
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Perhaps there is a difference between what unions were established to do and how they have morphed, particularly, I think, in the US. Right wingers who believe that the crumbs that fall from the overladen tables of the exploiting classes will somehow turn them into the rich and powerful, will denigrate trades unions. There is little help to be given to those people. They are the traitors to humanity.
Lesson: If your union does not honestly and fairly look after and support its members, don't leave it, don't shun it, don't castigate it.
Change it.
And while you are about it destroy any possibility of those exploiters continuing to exploit. No, mister, he has not given you a job because he loves you. He has bought you like a slave, will pay you less than you deserve and when you can no longer give him your blood and your sweat he will get your successor to nail down your coffin.
 
Lowaicue said:
Perhaps there is a difference between what unions were established to do and how they have morphed, particularly, I think, in the US.
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Or maybe the rampant corruption and big time criminal connections in certain unions gives the perception that they're crooked. Add in the fact that other unions (the UAW here in Detroit) have effectively said no compromise, they end up being replaced by either contractors or machines. And then some unions (the like the teachers union here) demand more in spite of rampant and INCREASING failure.

Now I'm not against unions in principle, but that is in the same vein that I'm not against corporations, taxes, or government. In principle they're great. But they're human institutions, and thus failure in a possibility, if not a great likelyhood.
 
This is too funny...

One pinhead says: Oh my, what will we ever do without unions to protect us?
Next pinhead chimes in: Unions are the same as the Bar Association or any other professional organization.
Another pinhead chortles: Denying workers their civil rights is uncivilized.

Here's a freaking clue, morons... We currently have no manufacturing sector jobs, because our manufacturing has moved overseas. It has done so because of capitalism and the law of supply and demand. Labor unions have priced American labor out of the market, and the supply of cheap labor abroad is plentiful. Now, I suppose a solution could be to kill of the rest of the world, so they can't compete with American labor unions, but I think a better approach would be to reign in the labor unions, so manufacturing labor costs in the US can again be competitive. Ultimately, that is what is going to happen, if we ever expect to get jobs back.

Now the idiots here, get up every morning and log into their liberal headquarters, and find out what they are supposed to be running around screaming in outrage over today. They really have no idea why they've been told to go out there and trumpet for the unions, but they are doing it, nevertheless. The reason is what happened in Wisconsin. Democrats can not afford to lose the union vote in November, that would spell certain doom for Obama's re-election chances, which are already on very shaky ground. So to mitigate the effects of what Wisconsin may have done for the morale of the union voter, the pinhead sheep have been instructed to go out there and root-root-root for the UNIONS! That is why we are getting these kind of threads, in case any of you were curious.
 
No unions? Then employers can go back to the golden days of yore: child workers, unsafe working conditions, company stores, 16 hr workdays, no overtime, no benefits of any kind, and unfair wages?
 
Dixie said:
This is too funny...

One pinhead says: Oh my, what will we ever do without unions to protect us?
Next pinhead chimes in: Unions are the same as the Bar Association or any other professional organization.
Another pinhead chortles: Denying workers their civil rights is uncivilized.

Here's a freaking clue, morons... We currently have no manufacturing sector jobs, because our manufacturing has moved overseas. It has done so because of capitalism and the law of supply and demand. Labor unions have priced American labor out of the market, and the supply of cheap labor abroad is plentiful. Now, I suppose a solution could be to kill of the rest of the world, so they can't compete with American labor unions, but I think a better approach would be to reign in the labor unions, so manufacturing labor costs in the US can again be competitive. Ultimately, that is what is going to happen, if we ever expect to get jobs back.

Now the idiots here, get up every morning and log into their liberal headquarters, and find out what they are supposed to be running around screaming in outrage over today. They really have no idea why they've been told to go out there and trumpet for the unions, but they are doing it, nevertheless. The reason is what happened in Wisconsin. Democrats can not afford to lose the union vote in November, that would spell certain doom for Obama's re-election chances, which are already on very shaky ground. So to mitigate the effects of what Wisconsin may have done for the morale of the union voter, the pinhead sheep have been instructed to go out there and root-root-root for the UNIONS! That is why we are getting these kind of threads, in case any of you were curious.
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Jesus, you do spout some incredible bullshit at times, for one thing only 12% of the labour market is in a union in the US. So just explain to me what happened to all the jobs in the consumer electronics sector, few if any of those jobs were unionised yet they still all went off to places like Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia and China. How do you explain that Pixie?
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
Jesus, you do spout some incredible bullshit at times, for one thing only 12% of the labour market is in a union in the US. So just explain to me what happened to all the jobs in the consumer electronics sector, few if any of those jobs were unionised yet they still all went off to places like Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia and China. How do you explain that Pixie?
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In his beloved Confederacy, slave labor was used, wasn't it?
 
\\()// said:
No unions? Then employers can go back to the golden days of yore: child workers, unsafe working conditions, company stores, 16 hr workdays, no overtime, no benefits of any kind, and unfair wages?
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Yes, because that's what Republicans want, is for people to suffer. We also want to put lead back in paint and drown kittens of little girls, because that's how we roll! Over the past 60-70 years, every time the unions go on strike to demand something more, we ask if maybe you've gone too far? It seems like $24.50 an hour is plenty of money for the job being done, but we're told that if they can't get $27 an hour and an extra week of paid leave, the poor children are going to be forced into labor camps and beaten daily. So we go along with this, time and time again, and the jobs keep going away. Now we sit here with no jobs, listening to you blame that on Republicans, but oh... we must still back the unions, otherwise, poor children will be forced to eat lead paint for dinner!

Well, I for one am tired of arguing! Force those little bastards to work... 100 hour weeks... 20 hr shifts... with no air conditioning! It builds character! No need to pay them anything, because no matter how much it is, you're going to bitch and moan, so let's just force the poor, blind, and retarded kids with cancer, to work like slaves? I think it's time we spend 60-70 years with THAT plan, and see if we can get back some of the jobs we've lost.

Aoxomoxoa said:
Jesus, you do spout some incredible bullshit at times, for one thing only 12% of the labour market is in a union in the US. So just explain to me what happened to all the jobs in the consumer electronics sector, few if any of those jobs were unionised yet they still all went off to places like Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia and China. How do you explain that Pixie?
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Yeah, sometimes, when I am talking to incredible morons, I do like to spout incredible shit, it's what they seem to comprehend.

Wow, only 12%? Don't tell crewcut! That means 88% of the jobs out there are poor kids being forced to work in sweat shops against their will and eat lead paint! How can decent people let such a thing happen? Oh the humanity!

Let me explain how this works... My company makes widgets... we are a non-union company, but despite the temptations, we don't hire underage kids or make them work in un-air conditioned buildings, but rather... we hire adults who work for somewhere around $10 an hr. to make widgets. They work 40 hrs a week and get an average of 10 days vacation a year, plus health and dental insurance, and a 401k which we contribute to. Things are going fine until another unionized widget shop opens across town. I first notice this because I start losing workers, who would rather work for the union widget company, where they get $20 an hr., 4 weeks of vacation, and the rest of the perks. Now I have a dilemma... In order to keep the workers I have, I can either turn my shop into a union shop, or I can try to compete with the unions by offering my employees a similar package. The one thing I can't do, is sit on my thumbs and watch all my workers leave.

It doesn't matter what small percentage you want to cite as 'union' as opposed to 'non-union' ...the unions drive labor prices for everyone. Now comes a Chinaman who says he can produce my widgets in China for half of what it costs me here. Well it seems I have another option besides being extorted by unions.
 
\\()// said:
Unemployed, Dixie?
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I don't know how to answer that. Am I officially counted as one of the 9% who are unemployed? No. Am I one of the millions who has given up looking for a job and doesn't count toward the 9%? Nope. Am I one of the millions more who are underemployed and dissatisfied with my job? No. Do I have a paying job with a regular paycheck? Nope.... so in that sense, I guess I am unemployed. I am fortunate enough not to have to work, but it's because I worked hard my whole life to get here, and I am very frugal and don't need a lot of material things to be happy.

But the argument here is not about my personal situation, or yours, for that matter. It's about the state of the country and jobs available for those who want them. Since you can't really debate the issue, you want to pull this down into a personal thing, and make it about me. Because that gets your rocks off more than actually having an intelligent conversation about our problems as a nation. You are really a pathetic human being.
 
Dixie said:
I don't know how to answer that...
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Maybe you should've stopped there, Dix.

The South is largely non-union these days, isn't it?

How's that working out for you in terms of median wages and other economic indicators?
 
\\()// said:
Maybe you should've stopped there, Dix.
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No, I should have stopped before I hit the "Reply With Quote" button. Because you really have no intention of listening to what anyone has to say.

The South is largely non-union these days, isn't it?
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They always have been, as far as I am aware.

How's that working out for you in terms of median wages and other economic indicators?
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It's working out better than up north, where acres of union factories are sitting empty with NO workers making ANY wages, because their jobs have all gone to China.
 
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