Misinformation

[Cancel 2016.11]

I was hanging out with my friend the other night and he tells me that beginning in 2013 we are going to be mandated to pay our employees health insurance. And I'm like, what? No, we're not. He insists we are and it's one of the reasons he really hates Obama blah blah blah.

So of course I looked it up because I knew it was wrong, and I find:

the Affordable
Care Act requires large employers to pay a shared
responsibility fee only if they don’t provide affordable
coverage and taxpayers are supporting the cost of health
insurance for their workers through premium tax credits
for middle to low income families.
• The law specifically exempts all firms that have fewer
than 50 employees – 96 percent of all firms in the United
States or 5.8 million out of 6 million total firms – from
any employer responsibility requirements.


In fact, for small businesses who pay 50% or more of their employees premiums, we get tax credits! It's actually good for a lot of us. It's either good for you or it does not affect you at all unless you employ over 50 people - which is 4% of American businesses.

I emailed it to him. I mean I like this guy. But how can you be so stupid as to just listen to some right wing horseshit you heard somewhere? this is your business and you don't know? I read all this stuff that comes out to see what we can take advantage of. But so many people, and I mean educated people with money, are just clueless. They are just victims to whatever horseshit someone tells them. It really amazes me.

 

[Onceler]

Great post; this is THE #1 argument against Obamacare. I have seen so many people say how it is going to kill small business owners.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

Great post; this is THE #1 argument against Obamacare. I have seen so many people say how it is going to kill small business owners.

I had no idea people were saying this. I avoid at nearly all costs talking politics with business acquaintances, and you know the circles I travel in outside of business the number one complaint is "why couldn't it have a public option". But I've become friends with this man and we do a lot of business together and so it came up. I was just looking at him. I tried to tell him but I realized fast that he was never going to believe me without proof. So I sent it to him. I am going to print it out straight from the health care act itself, and stick it in my purse.

But no there is no way this is going to kill small business owners. A lot of this bullshit gets disseminated by the local chambers to their members and it's such a shame because their political agenda is not about small business. And you don't get the truth there.

 

[RockX]

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=223666,00.html

If you pay $50,000 a year toward workers’ health care premiums – and if you qualify for a 15 percent credit, you save … $7,500. If you save $7,500 a year from tax year 2010 through 2013, that’s total savings of $30,000. If, in 2014, you qualify for a slightly larger credit, say 20 percent, your savings go from $7,500 a year to $12,000 a year.


Even if you are a small business employer who did not owe tax during the year, you can carry the credit back or forward to other tax years. Also, since the amount of the health insurance premium payments are more than the total credit, eligible small businesses can still claim a business expense deduction for the premiums in excess of the credit. That’s both a credit and a deduction for employee premium payments.


Now that you know how the credit can make a difference for your business, let’s determine if you can claim it.


To be eligible, you must cover at least 50 percent of the cost of single (not family) health care coverage for each of your employees. You must also have fewer than 25 full-time equivalent employees (FTEs). Those employees must have average wages of less than $50,000 a year.














Employers on average tend to pick up roughly 50% to 75% of the total premiums for an employee’s health coverage which happens to be on average $15,000per year.


So now an employer has a choice;

A) Either continue health coverage for an employee to the tune of $7,500 to $11,225 annually

Or

B) Pay a $2,000 fine that goes directly to the federal government for not covering said employee.



The bigger issue may not be the savings for companies or even the penalty they must pay to the government, but the other interpretation to the rules that go along with this – notice the “per employee” line.


Under the Affordable Care Act firms can now choose who they want to cover and who they choose not to cover when it come to health benefits.


In a nut shell, corporations can pick “key” people in the company and cover their health premiums while opting to not pick others. This is unprecedented in the Modern Era.


Corporations have always had the option to not cover health benefits for their employees, but the choice to not make health coverage available affected every single person employed there. This one provision will now give a corporation the ability to say “we are only going to cover just the Directors of the company and nobody else”.


And the only penalty to do this will be a $2,000 fine for each uncovered employee.


So now, an employee, who by no fault of their own, could one day be told by the firm they have worked at for years that the company has just decided to no longer cover his/her health benefits and that she/he will now have to purchase an individual health plan from a private health insurance company.


Sounds great, doesn’t it?


Oh yeah and the hits keep on coming, because, under this same Act, that same employee who just got hit with the news of no longer being part of a “group plan” must now have , by regulations of this Act, adequate health coverage as soon as possible or face a fine that will paid directly to the federal government.


Ultimately, this new Act has;

• Paved the way for companies to save billions in health costs at the expense of their own employees
• Create a new revenue stream for the federal government (all those $2,000 fines)
• Open the door for health insurance companies to sell more health coverage to more people at individual rates instead of group rates – thus making more money for them.

 

[zappasguitar]

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=223666,00.html

If you pay $50,000 a year toward workers’ health care premiums – and if you qualify for a 15 percent credit, you save … $7,500. If you save $7,500 a year from tax year 2010 through 2013, that’s total savings of $30,000. If, in 2014, you qualify for a slightly larger credit, say 20 percent, your savings go from $7,500 a year to $12,000 a year.


Even if you are a small business employer who did not owe tax during the year, you can carry the credit back or forward to other tax years. Also, since the amount of the health insurance premium payments are more than the total credit, eligible small businesses can still claim a business expense deduction for the premiums in excess of the credit. That’s both a credit and a deduction for employee premium payments.


Now that you know how the credit can make a difference for your business, let’s determine if you can claim it.


To be eligible, you must cover at least 50 percent of the cost of single (not family) health care coverage for each of your employees. You must also have fewer than 25 full-time equivalent employees (FTEs). Those employees must have average wages of less than $50,000 a year.














Employers on average tend to pick up roughly 50% to 75% of the total premiums for an employee’s health coverage which happens to be on average $15,000per year.


So now an employer has a choice;

A) Either continue health coverage for an employee to the tune of $7,500 to $11,225 annually

Or

B) Pay a $2,000 fine that goes directly to the federal government for not covering said employee.



The bigger issue may not be the savings for companies or even the penalty they must pay to the government, but the other interpretation to the rules that go along with this – notice the “per employee” line.

Under the Affordable Care Act firms can now choose who they want to cover and who they choose not to cover when it come to health benefits.


In a nut shell, corporations can pick “key” people in the company and cover their health premiums while opting to not pick others. This is unprecedented in the Modern Era.


Corporations have always had the option to not cover health benefits for their employees, but the choice to not make health coverage available affected every single person employed there. This one provision will now give a corporation the ability to say “we are only going to cover just the Directors of the company and nobody else”.


And the only penalty to do this will be a $2,000 fine for each uncovered employee.

Really?

Corporations haven't in the past been allowed to choose which employees they cover and which they won't?

Tell that to all the part time employees at Wal-Mart...see if they buy your bullshit.

So now, an employee, who by no fault of their own, could one day be told by the firm they have worked at for years that the company has just decided to no longer cover his/her health benefits and that she/he will now have to purchase an individual health plan from a private health insurance company.


Sounds great, doesn’t it?

Sounds like business as usual in America.

Or are you really going to pretend businesses don't already just toss aside loyal, veteran employees whenever some cost cutting needs to be done?

Thanks to Obamacare, employees screwed over by corporate fat-cats will have an alternative to buying single coverage from those greed driven private health insurance companies.

Oh yeah and the hits keep on coming, because, under this same Act, that same employee who just got hit with the news of no longer being part of a “group plan” must now have , by regulations of this Act, adequate health coverage as soon as possible or face a fine that will paid directly to the federal government.


Ultimately, this new Act has;

• Paved the way for companies to save billions in health costs at the expense of their own employees
• Create a new revenue stream for the federal government (all those $2,000 fines)
• Open the door for health insurance companies to sell more health coverage to more people at individual rates instead of group rates – thus making more money for them.

Ultimately what you've posted is just more lies and mis-characterization...typical.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

...we get tax credits! It's actually good for a lot of us. It's either good for you or it does not affect you at all unless you employ over 50 people.

Well I should think it would be good for ALL of us, not just a lot? Free money? Who doesn't benefit from free money?

But you know, as much as I do like free money, my pragmatic mind can't help but wonder where it comes from. Money doesn't grow on trees, unless Washington DC has some kind of special tree we don't know about. Therefore, in order to give away free money, there has to be a source. Now, when you say "it doesn't effect you," I suppose you mean, if you aren't potentially one of the sources of this free cash? Because, if you are, I certainly think it might effect you a little, to have to provide it.

Of course, there are still those entities who employ over 50 people, (aka: corporations). Perhaps they are the source of all this free money? But they don't have magic money trees either, the money has to come from somewhere. In the end, the consumer is the source of the free money, there is no other ultimate way to obtain it. We can tax corporations, or institute mandates all day long, at the end of the day, the consumer is who will ultimately be the source of all this free money.

And now... what are we all paying for? Well, we are paying endless sums of our own money, and our children and grandchildren's money, so that whenever anyone out there gets a hangnail, or neurotically believes they have brain tumors, they can run down to the local medical facility and occupy hours and hours of time of medical professionals, who are paid to listen. Since most medical schooling is expensive, this is not cheap... but we have this endless supply of free money to take care of that, right?

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

Really?

Corporations haven't in the past been allowed to choose which employees they cover and which they won't?

Tell that to all the part time employees at Wal-Mart...see if they buy your bullshit.





Sounds like business as usual in America.

Or are you really going to pretend businesses don't already just toss aside loyal, veteran employees whenever some cost cutting needs to be done?

Thanks to Obamacare, employees screwed over by corporate fat-cats will have an alternative to buying single coverage from those greed driven private health insurance companies.



Ultimately what you've posted is just more lies and mis-characterization...typical.

He doesn't know shit. Unprecedented in US history? LMAO Employers can create classes of employees and cover one class and not another one AS LONG as employees are not designated by race, sex, or anything like that (ie handicapped).

I do not know if the ACA changes that, I haven't looked into it since it wouldn't affect us - we offer it to all employees.

 

[Onceler]

Did Dixie just argue against tax credits for small businesses?

Why does Dixie hate small business owners so much? They're the heart & soul of America. I don't get it....

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

Well I should think it would be good for ALL of us, not just a lot? Free money? Who doesn't benefit from free money?

But you know, as much as I do like free money, my pragmatic mind can't help but wonder where it comes from. Money doesn't grow on trees, unless Washington DC has some kind of special tree we don't know about. Therefore, in order to give away free money, there has to be a source. Now, when you say "it doesn't effect you," I suppose you mean, if you aren't potentially one of the sources of this free cash? Because, if you are, I certainly think it might effect you a little, to have to provide it.

Of course, there are still those entities who employ over 50 people, (aka: corporations). Perhaps they are the source of all this free money? But they don't have magic money trees either, the money has to come from somewhere. In the end, the consumer is the source of the free money, there is no other ultimate way to obtain it. We can tax corporations, or institute mandates all day long, at the end of the day, the consumer is who will ultimately be the source of all this free money.

And now... what are we all paying for? Well, we are paying endless sums of our own money, and our children and grandchildren's money, so that whenever anyone out there gets a hangnail, or neurotically believes they have brain tumors, they can run down to the local medical facility and occupy hours and hours of time of medical professionals, who are paid to listen. Since most medical schooling is expensive, this is not cheap... but we have this endless supply of free money to take care of that, right?

I missed this till Onceler posted.

Free money? It's tax credits. You know just like all the huge corporations get.

Are you against tax credits for businesses now? or is it just small businesses you hate?

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

Did Dixie just argue against tax credits for small businesses?

Why does Dixie hate small business owners so much? They're the heart & soul of America. I don't get it....

I am continually dumbfounded by how they will do anything, say anything, choke on any hypocrisy, lie, cheat, in order to avoid saying that something a Democrat did might have something good about it.

now we have Dixie coming out for high taxes for businesses!

Stunning.

 

[Bonestorm]

I missed this till Onceler posted.

Free money? It's tax credits. You know just like all the huge corporations get.

Are you against tax credits for businesses now? or is it just small businesses you hate?

YOU THINK TAX CREDITS GROW ON TREES?????????????

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I missed this till Onceler posted.

Free money? It's tax credits. You know just like all the huge corporations get.

Are you against tax credits for businesses now? or is it just small businesses you hate?

Well that's the beauty of the Liberal argument, who could possibly be opposed to free money and tax credits? ...And if you are, it must just mean you hate people!

Like I said, the part that bothers me is, where does this free money come from? I wish that I could suspend reality and be a liberal, but I just keep thinking rationally! Dammit!

 

[Onceler]

You're getting higher taxes, dammit!

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

Well that's the beauty of the Liberal argument, who could possibly be opposed to free money and tax credits? ...And if you are, it must just mean you hate people!

Like I said, the part that bothers me is, where does this free money come from? I wish that I could suspend reality and be a liberal, but I just keep thinking rationally! Dammit!

It isn't "free money" it's tax credits.

Can you point me to where you have questioned tax credits to large corporations? Can you point me to where you have questioned the corporations who pay zero tax bills? Can you point me to where you have objected to the subsidies (actual free money) provided to some large corporations already paying zero and thus making them the beneficiaries of corporate welfare?

Please point me to these things Dixie.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

It isn't "free money" it's tax credits.

Can you point me to where you have questioned tax credits to large corporations? Can you point me to where you have questioned the corporations who pay zero tax bills? Can you point me to where you have objected to the subsidies (actual free money) provided to some large corporations already paying zero and thus making them the beneficiaries of corporate welfare?

Please point me to these things Dixie.

Well, here's the thing... ya know what I like better than 'tax credits?' ...Lower taxes to begin with, then there is no need to give me back some of my money and pretend I am being 'rewarded' with a 'credit' or 'free money.' Now, I believe we could probably have much lower taxes, if we can stop liberals from giving more an more 'free money' away. But until then, I am not going to pretend the ultimate source of 'free money' is something other than the consumer, because, that BE the facts.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

You're getting higher taxes, dammit!

Well, I don't think so, Onzies, you can dream though... We'll see come November.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

Well, here's the thing... ya know what I like better than 'tax credits?' ...Lower taxes to begin with, then there is no need to give me back some of my money and pretend I am being 'rewarded' with a 'credit' or 'free money.' Now, I believe we could probably have much lower taxes, if we can stop liberals from giving more an more 'free money' away. But until then, I am not going to pretend the ultimate source of 'free money' is something other than the consumer, because, that BE the facts.

I expect to see you at the next Occupy protest then! Holding this sign:

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

But we won't see you doing that Dixie, because the fact is you have nothing against Zero corporate taxes (much of which comes in the form of "tax credits" to these large corporations) and government "subsidies" on top of that.

You just won't say you agree with anything Obama did.

And it's been made beyond obvious on this thread, so thanks for providing such a great example of a hypocritical Republican hack.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

But we won't see you doing that Dixie, because the fact is you have nothing against Zero corporate taxes (much of which comes in the form of "tax credits" to these large corporations) and government "subsidies" on top of that.

You just won't say you agree with anything Obama did.

And it's been made beyond obvious on this thread, so thanks for providing such a great example of a hypocritical Republican hack.

You're right. If it were up to me, America would have 0% corporate tax rates! Income wouldn't be taxed at all, only consumerism.

I guess that's where I am very different from you, I want corporations to do well and prosper, because when that happens, we all seem to do well and prosper as a result. Seems like, the more corporations struggle to keep the doors open, and have to shut down factory after factory, it's not working out too well for the folks. We can look back to our heyday in manufacturing/production, and see that people of that time did pretty good, they started the Baby Boom generation, as a matter of fact. Built an interstate system across the country, bought new cars every three years, sent men to the moon... We had a pretty good little run there, while corporations prospered and flags flew high.

We have slowly traveled down this liberal road to more and more corporate regulation and taxation, more 'tax credits' and 'free money ideas' and we've endorsed unions and their ability to twist arms and get more and more opulent benefit packages, year after year, for their members. We've watched our entire manufacturing sector disappear in the process, and now we wonder why? Your 'solution' is to heap yet MORE burden and liability on the back of the corporation, who you basically see as 'evil' in the scheme of things, because you are a socialist.

 

[zappasguitar]

You're right. If it were up to me, America would have 0% corporate tax rates! Income wouldn't be taxed at all, only consumerism.

I guess that's where I am very different from you, I want corporations to do well and prosper, because when that happens, we all seem to do well and prosper as a result. Seems like, the more corporations struggle to keep the doors open, and have to shut down factory after factory, it's not working out too well for the folks. We can look back to our heyday in manufacturing/production, and see that people of that time did pretty good, they started the Baby Boom generation, as a matter of fact. Built an interstate system across the country, bought new cars every three years, sent men to the moon... We had a pretty good little run there, while corporations prospered and flags flew high.

We have slowly traveled down this liberal road to more and more corporate regulation and taxation, more 'tax credits' and 'free money ideas' and we've endorsed unions and their ability to twist arms and get more and more opulent benefit packages, year after year, for their members. We've watched our entire manufacturing sector disappear in the process, and now we wonder why? Your 'solution' is to heap yet MORE burden and liability on the back of the corporation, who you basically see as 'evil' in the scheme of things, because you are a socialist.

Why has the manufacturing sector disappeared over the years?

Two words: Corporate Greed