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Damocles
09-15-2006, 08:03 PM
Bill and Belinda’s excellent adventure

But Clinton’s new, er, friendship isn’t helping his wife’s presidential aims, writes eric reguly

As potential girlfriends go, Belinda Stronach would rank as a true catch. She is single, youngish (she just turned 40), attractive, wealthy, impeccably well-connected and politically ambitious - glamorous in every respect. Two years ago, Time magazine listed her as one of the 100 most powerful people on the planet. The tabloids cut to the chase: they called her the "blonde bombshell" or "Bubba's blonde."

Bubba, of course, is Bill Clinton. He has been photographed with Stronach (right) several times. The sightings seem to be getting more frequent, leading to...

Link (http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=578&WT.srch=1)

Gaffer
09-16-2006, 03:29 PM
leading to.... a nasty spitefilled divorce with hellery raking bubba over the coals. Look out bubba the wicked witch of the eastcoast is going to cut your balls off. lIke he had any to begin with.

This could put a real crimp in hellery's running for president.

Care4all
09-22-2006, 07:52 AM
leading to.... a nasty spitefilled divorce with hellery raking bubba over the coals. Look out bubba the wicked witch of the eastcoast is going to cut your balls off. lIke he had any to begin with.

This could put a real crimp in hellery's running for president.

Hillary believes in the vows of marriage to its fullest, for better or for WORSE....she did not divorce him when he failed to keep his marriage vows before...she forgave him, what's to say she wouldn't do that again....there are women out there that end up forgiving their husbands over and over again, aren't there? (And don't be thinking those guys are lucky bastards, even if they are! :D)

--------------------------------------------------

As far as the GOSSIP in this thread and post and article.....

It's none of my business, just LIKE IT WAS NOT any of my business when the republicans pointed a finger at clinton before regarding this, without ever looking at themselves before stoning him....history repeating itself again?

Care

uscitizen
09-22-2006, 08:01 AM
Who cares he can't be elected president again :)
Oh no sounding like a rebutliken.....shame on me....

Care4all
09-22-2006, 08:14 AM
Who cares he can't be elected president again :)
Oh no sounding like a rebutliken.....shame on me....

Ohhhh, but it is hillary that could be elected, and this is her husband so the republicans very much will make it their business....

The oh so religious republicans will be mocking her... for HONORING HER MARRIAGE VOWS, yes mocking her and laughing at HER for staying with her husband even though it turned out to be "for the WORSE" AND NOT BECAUSE IT WAS FOR "THE BETTER"..... ohhhh, but gay marriage is going to ruin the sanctity of marriage... :(

Bunch of Hypocrites imo and it sickens me how these SO CALLED Christians will probably end up making a mockery out of Christianity and me.

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

care

uscitizen
09-22-2006, 08:23 AM
Christianity is a religion Care, and has many fake Christians in it.
You are you, and if you are a good true christian that is good, and you should not let the faux Christians drag you down.

Damocles
09-22-2006, 09:27 AM
Hillary believes in the vows of marriage to its fullest, for better or for WORSE....she did not divorce him when he failed to keep his marriage vows before...she forgave him, what's to say she wouldn't do that again....there are women out there that end up forgiving their husbands over and over again, aren't there? (And don't be thinking those guys are lucky bastards, even if they are! :D)

--------------------------------------------------

As far as the GOSSIP in this thread and post and article.....

It's none of my business, just LIKE IT WAS NOT any of my business when the republicans pointed a finger at clinton before regarding this, without ever looking at themselves before stoning him....history repeating itself again?

Care
LOL. Not often with a "strong feminist" woman...

Forgiveness comes easier if you need the name to get the job you have and the job you want.

Damocles
09-22-2006, 09:29 AM
Ohhhh, but it is hillary that could be elected, and this is her husband so the republicans very much will make it their business....

The oh so religious republicans will be mocking her... for HONORING HER MARRIAGE VOWS, yes mocking her and laughing at HER for staying with her husband even though it turned out to be "for the WORSE" AND NOT BECAUSE IT WAS FOR "THE BETTER"..... ohhhh, but gay marriage is going to ruin the sanctity of marriage... :(

Bunch of Hypocrites imo and it sickens me how these SO CALLED Christians will probably end up making a mockery out of Christianity and me.

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

care
This is total rubbish. People aren't mocking her for sticking to her vows, they are mocking her for attempting to stand upright as a strong feminist while still allowing a man to cuckhold her making it clear that she does it for the power it could lend her rather than what she earned as a woman in her own right....

Feminist? I don't think so...

Also, one of the direct reasons for dismissing your spouse is infidelity. One does follow their vows if they leave a cheating spouse....

Cypress
09-22-2006, 09:34 AM
here we go with clinton's sex life again.

And, mere months ago I fondly remember Cons belatedly proclaiming that the whole impeachement had nothing to do with Sex. That they didn't care about Clinton's sex life. It was merely about upholding the letter of the law, and principles.

uscitizen
09-22-2006, 09:36 AM
As the Nov election grows nearer .......
LOL
Are we all just sheeple ?

Damocles
09-22-2006, 09:47 AM
here we go with clinton's sex life again.

And, mere months ago I fondly remember Cons belatedly proclaiming that the whole impeachement had nothing to do with Sex. That they didn't care about Clinton's sex life. It was merely about upholding the letter of the law, and principles.
I've never been one that was all, "It had nothing to do with sex"... Clearly it did. I was also against wasting government resources on such wasteful spending as that impeachment. There were far better things to do than waste that time.

uscitizen
09-22-2006, 10:52 AM
I've never been one that was all, "It had nothing to do with sex"... Clearly it did. I was also against wasting government resources on such wasteful spending as that impeachment. There were far better things to do than waste that time.

Yes , but I think congress's preoccupation with clowntoon helped those years to be good for us. The did not have time to screw us very much.

Damocles
09-22-2006, 11:03 AM
I've always like gridlock. If we aren't actively taking it apart, thowing a wrench in the works is a better solution than building it larger, stronger, and more expensive...

uscitizen
09-22-2006, 11:07 AM
gridlock and balance forces compromise and slows down the process so people can see what is going on instead of a rubberstamp congress.

Care4all
09-22-2006, 11:37 AM
Wow, you sure got Hillary pegged Damo, or rather you sure think you do!

Is there some FEMINIST MOVEMENT STILL out there that Hillary belongs to or am I missing something?

And what does a feminist stance on some issues have to do with marriage vows?

And are you saying that Jesus told us that WE SHOULD DIVORCE an unfaithful spouce? Cuz....that is what YOU SURE SOUND like you are saying, and that is NOT TRUE....what so ever in my humble opinion....from the reading in the Gospel?

care

Damocles
09-22-2006, 11:42 AM
Wow, you sure got Hillary pegged Damo, or rather you sure think you do!

Is there some FEMINIST MOVEMENT STILL out there that Hillary belongs to or am I missing something?

And what does a feminist stance on some issues have to do with marriage vows?

And are you saying that Jesus told us that WE SHOULD DIVORCE an unfaithful spouce? Cuz....that is what YOU SURE SOUND like you are saying, and that is NOT TRUE....what so ever in my humble opinion....from the reading in the Gospel?

care
It is specifically mentioned in the Bible as one of the reasons divorce is allowed. Pretending otherwise is just that, pretending.

Again, people consistently shove her in my face as somebody the right doesn't like because she "Is a strong woman, and a feminist!"

I just point out that she is neither. She takes her strength from the name of her husband and allows him to cuckhold her in trade.

Unless you really want to pretend that she would have been the Senator from New York without that power gained from her borrowed name... That would just be more pretending.

uscitizen
09-22-2006, 02:32 PM
Actually we are supposed to stone our unfaithful wife to death. But it is ok for the man to fool around, according to the bible :)

You know that sounds pretty good.....
hmmm

Care4all
09-22-2006, 05:46 PM
It is specifically mentioned in the Bible as one of the reasons divorce is allowed. Pretending otherwise is just that, pretending.

Again, people consistently shove her in my face as somebody the right doesn't like because she "Is a strong woman, and a feminist!"

I just point out that she is neither. She takes her strength from the name of her husband and allows him to cuckhold her in trade.

Unless you really want to pretend that she would have been the Senator from New York without that power gained from her borrowed name... That would just be more pretending.

What are you saying Damo...you don't think Hillary could have been a senator like olympia Snow or or Senator Cantwell or Senator Landrieu or senator Dole or Senator Collins?

I totally disagree with you!


She takes her strength from her husband? BULLSHIT to say the least...

YOU ARE SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO partisan, yet you always claim not to be....a little male chauvanistic too imo....especially with this....

She's a brain Damo and she was and is the backbone of her husband and contributes to his success imo....

but hey.....women are dummies without their husbands...

remind me to pick up that book!

care

Damocles
09-22-2006, 05:51 PM
What are you saying Damo...you don't think Hillary could have been a senator like olympia Snow or or Senator Cantwell or Senator Landrieu or senator Dole or Senator Collins?

I totally disagree with you!


She takes her strength from her husband? BULLSHIT to say the least...

YOU ARE SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO partisan, yet you always claim not to be....a little male chauvanistic too imo....especially with this....

She's a brain Damo and she was and is the backbone of her husband and contributes to his success imo....

but hey.....women are dummies without their husbands...

remind me to pick up that book!

care
Yes, that is what I am saying. I think it would be especially unlikely in New York, where she didn't live. I believe that without her husbands name and borrowed fame she would not be the Senator of New York State, and likely wouldn't even be the Senator of Arkansas...

It has nothing to do with being sooooo partisan, it has a ton to do with what is actually likely. Without her husband's fame and name an unknown carpetbagger from a southern state would not become the Senator of New York state. In fact, it takes partisan blinders to believe that she would.

klaatu
09-23-2006, 05:42 AM
Wow, you sure got Hillary pegged Damo, or rather you sure think you do!

Is there some FEMINIST MOVEMENT STILL out there that Hillary belongs to or am I missing something?

And what does a feminist stance on some issues have to do with marriage vows?

And are you saying that Jesus told us that WE SHOULD DIVORCE an unfaithful spouce? Cuz....that is what YOU SURE SOUND like you are saying, and that is NOT TRUE....what so ever in my humble opinion....from the reading in the Gospel?

care


Care .. you are the one that is making Hillary out to be Mother Teresa ... clearly blinded by partisan poliics. Damo is right on.... Hillary wares the blinders because she and Bill are in it for the political partnership.. iow THE POWER.. and that is it. To think otherwise is political naivety.

Care4all
09-23-2006, 08:32 AM
Care .. you are the one that is making Hillary out to be Mother Teresa ... clearly blinded by partisan poliics. Damo is right on.... Hillary wares the blinders because she and Bill are in it for the political partnership.. iow THE POWER.. and that is it. To think otherwise is political naivety.

No, I am NOT making her out to be mother Terresa and I would like to know where YOU got this from.....?

Be specific please.

I think that it is EXTREMELY JUDGEMENTAL for you and Damo to continue to spout this garbage with no knowledge at all regarding their circumstances...

why not talk about her and her strengths or weaknesses regarding the political arena?

male chauvinists...coming out in you both imo.

and for you to mask it as something else is utterly ridiculous...examine yourselves.....you need it in this case imo.

care

Damocles
09-23-2006, 08:39 AM
No, I am NOT making her out to be mother Terresa and I would like to know where YOU got this from.....?

Be specific please.

I think that it is EXTREMELY JUDGEMENTAL for you and Damo to continue to spout this garbage with no knowledge at all regarding their circumstances...

why not talk about her and her strengths or weaknesses regarding the political arena?

male chauvinists...coming out in you both imo.

and for you to mask it as something else is utterly ridiculous...examine yourselves.....you need it in this case imo.

care
I am no male chauvinist, give me evidence. Is it realistic to believe that somebody who didn't live in New York and was totally unknown would become their Senator? Come on, Care... It isn't my blinders that are evident here. It is yours. Attempting to paint me as a chauvinist isn't working, but painting yourself as a total partisan hack who can see nothing wrong with their candidate so long as they are of the same party? Yes, that appears evident at this time.

There is no way that Hillary, as an unknown, would ever be the Senator of New York. Maybe if she stayed in Illinois and worked hard she might be there, but she most certainly wouldn't have talk of Presidential runs, etc.

This has nothing to do with Chauvinist, and everything to do with reality.

Care4all
09-23-2006, 08:42 AM
Yes, that is what I am saying. I think it would be especially unlikely in New York, where she didn't live. I believe that without her husbands name and borrowed fame she would not be the Senator of New York State, and likely wouldn't even be the Senator of Arkansas...

It has nothing to do with being sooooo partisan, it has a ton to do with what is actually likely. Without her husband's fame and name an unknown carpetbagger from a southern state would not become the Senator of New York state. In fact, it takes partisan blinders to believe that she would.

And who's to say she would not have become a Senator in another state ALOT SOONER if her husband had not been President or governor?

your presumptions are ASTOUNDING....astounding to say the least and extremely biased getting this garbage from the right wing propaganda machine's spin...

shameful imo...you can't even speak about her record....the job she has done or her qualifications as a Senator on material things or even compared to her MALE counterparts...they are senators because they are qualified and earned it .....

but nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, the chauvinists like you and klaatu think that Hillary is LESS OF A SENATOR than "one of the guys, one in the boys club" and I AM CALLING YOU and klaatu and others that spout the same garbage.... ON IT.....

that's how it comes off in your posts imo.....and I don't see it how anyone can see it otherwise.

care

(Darla? Darla darling...where are you? I need your help in blasting these guys... hahahaha)

Damocles
09-23-2006, 08:48 AM
And who's to say she would not have become a Senator in another state ALOT SOONER if her husband had not been President or governor?

your presumptions are ASTOUNDING....astounding to say the least and extremely biased getting this garbage from the right wing propaganda machine's spin...

shameful imo...you can't even speak about her record....the job she has done or her qualifications as a Senator on material things or even compared to her MALE counterparts...they are senators because they are qualified and earned it .....

but nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, the chauvinists like you and klaatu think that Hillary is LESS OF A SENATOR than "one of the guys, one in the boys club" and I AM CALLING YOU and klaatu and others that spout the same garbage.... ON IT.....

that's how it comes off in your posts imo.....and I don't see it how anyone can see it otherwise.

care

(Darla? Darla darling...where are you? I need your help in blasting these guys... hahahaha)
*sigh* My point was that she would not have the position she does right now without her husband and pretending otherwise is simple pretense, and not even well-disguised pretense. If you read my next post I even say she might be able to make it to Senator in her own right in her own state. Don't be so disingenuous that your ranting gives away your partisanship! Oh, wait... It's too late for that now!

uscitizen
09-23-2006, 11:58 AM
And by Damos logic on senator clownottn , then GWB would not be president and Jeb would not be gov, because they rode on their daddsy coattails...umm GHWB would not have been president except for his senator daddy either I suppose....

Damocles
09-23-2006, 12:00 PM
And by Damos logic on senator clownottn , then GWB would not be president and Jeb would not be gov, because they rode on their daddsy coattails...umm GHWB would not have been president except for his senator daddy either I suppose....


Yes, by my logic this would be true. I feel less respect for people who ride their family's fame to power than for those who build it form their own ability.

Cypress
09-23-2006, 12:04 PM
The fact that Hillary was first lady definetly helped her become a senator from new york.

But, she is extremly competent, intelligent and ambitious. She became one of the top lawyers in the country all on her own. Even without Bill, she may well have become a congresswoman, a mayor, or some other prominent public official.

Damocles
09-23-2006, 12:09 PM
And had she done it that way I would respect her all the more for it...

However, people began talking of runs for President before she had even announced she was actually going to run for Senate and that too was still a rumor. This would not be the case if she hadn't that fame from the name.

Damocles
09-23-2006, 12:12 PM
Amazingly we hear how much Daddy's help got Bush his job and how his accomplishment is less for it, but we are supposed to ignore it for somebody else because they have a D near their name?

Cypress
09-23-2006, 12:12 PM
And had she done it that way I would respect her all the more for it...

However, people began talking of runs for President before she had even announced she was actually going to run for Senate and that too was still a rumor. This would not be the case if she hadn't that fame from the name.

Being first lady is an advantage for her.

All Im saying is that Hillary has the intellect, the qualifications, and the personal ambition to have succeeded in anything she wanted, even without Bill.

George junior, without the Bush family, wouldnt have amounted to much, imo

Damocles
09-23-2006, 12:16 PM
Being first lady is an advantage for her.

All Im saying is that Hillary has the intellect, the qualifications, and the personal ambition to have succeeded in anything she wanted, even without Bill.

George junior, without the Bush family, wouldnt have amounted to much, imo
True. I believe I stated earlier that Hillary could even possibly be a Senator without Billie earlier in the thread. In fact, I know I did. However it is extremely unlikely that she would be in a position to run for President, or even to have so many talk about it without it. To say she is somehow eliminated from such points because she is a D and a woman is sexist and silly.

Cancel7
09-23-2006, 12:16 PM
And had she done it that way I would respect her all the more for it...

However, people began talking of runs for President before she had even announced she was actually going to run for Senate and that too was still a rumor. This would not be the case if she hadn't that fame from the name.

Right.

That always happens with first ladies.

Why I remember the hue and cry for Nancy Reagan, Lady Bird Johnson and Barbara Bush to run for President as soon as their husbands terms were up. And even now, there are rumors in the wind that Laura is to be presumptive Republican nominee.

Oh wait,....none of that happened. Yet all of these women were as "famous" as Hillary and in the exact same way.

Explain why none of the above did happen, but did with Hillary Damo.

Damocles
09-23-2006, 12:18 PM
Right.

That always happens with first ladies.

Why I remember the hue and cry for Nancy Reagan, Lady Bird Johnson and Barbara Bush to run for President as soon as their husbands terms were up. And even now, there are rumors in the wind that Laura is to be presumptive Republican nominee.

Oh wait,....none of that happened. Yet all of these women were as "famous" as Hillary and in the exact same way.

Explain why none of the above did happen, but did with Hillary Damo.
*sigh* That they had no ambition for it means little. However I do remember hearing a cry for Libbie Dole....

Don't be so deliberately disingenuous. And read the whole of the thread and catch up before limiting yourself to already answered remarks.

Cancel7
09-23-2006, 12:19 PM
And who's to say she would not have become a Senator in another state ALOT SOONER if her husband had not been President or governor?

your presumptions are ASTOUNDING....astounding to say the least and extremely biased getting this garbage from the right wing propaganda machine's spin...

shameful imo...you can't even speak about her record....the job she has done or her qualifications as a Senator on material things or even compared to her MALE counterparts...they are senators because they are qualified and earned it .....

but nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, the chauvinists like you and klaatu think that Hillary is LESS OF A SENATOR than "one of the guys, one in the boys club" and I AM CALLING YOU and klaatu and others that spout the same garbage.... ON IT.....

that's how it comes off in your posts imo.....and I don't see it how anyone can see it otherwise.

care

(Darla? Darla darling...where are you? I need your help in blasting these guys... hahahaha)

I'm on the phone Care, and about to go out, and had been avoiding this thread because I knew what it must be about, and sure enough, I'm sorry I am reading it. And now I don't have the time to delve into it as I would like to.

But I will come back to it.

Damocles
09-23-2006, 12:20 PM
And I will remain consistent in my persistent and logical approach to it...

Cancel7
09-23-2006, 12:21 PM
*sigh* That they had no ambition for it means little. However I do remember hearing a cry for Libbie Dole....

Don't be so deliberately disingenuous. And read the whole of the thread and catch up before limiting yourself to already answered remarks.

How do you know what they had ambition for???

They had no ambition, or they had no qualifications for it?

Why don't you try the latter Damo.
And once again Damo performs feats of magic, this time jumping into the minds of women he will never meet and discerning their true "ambitions."

Cancel7
09-23-2006, 12:22 PM
And I will remain consistent in my persistent and logical approach to it...


I love myself, who do you love?

I am witty and pretty and consistent and persistent and just all around magnificant!

Damocles
09-23-2006, 12:23 PM
How do you know what they had ambition for???

They had no ambition, or they had no qualifications for it?

Why don't you try the latter Damo.
And once again Damo performs feats of magic, this time jumping into the minds of women he will never meet and discerning their true "ambitions."
Well, because they never once attempted to run, nor even put forward a trial baloon about it? Come on you have to truly be deliberate in ignorance to even attempt to ask this question!

How do I know? Because of their action.

Damocles
09-23-2006, 12:25 PM
I love myself, who do you love?

I am witty and pretty and consistent and persistent and just all around magnificant!
Libbie Dole certainly had the ability... However, I would say much the same about her had she run...

Cancel7
09-23-2006, 12:25 PM
Of course the real question should not be, would Hillary be a Senator without Bill, but rather, the question men everywhere are loathe to ask for fear of what the answer might tell them about themselves, their own sucesses, and their own capacity.

And that question is, would Bill ever have been President, without Hillary?

Cancel7
09-23-2006, 12:26 PM
Well, because they never once attempted to run, nor even put forward a trial baloon about it? Come on you have to truly be deliberate in ignorance to even attempt to ask this question!

How do I know? Because of their action.


There werent' no call, from no quarter, for Barbara Bush to run for dog catcher.

But that had nothing to do with her lack of "ambition" right Damo?

Damocles
09-23-2006, 12:27 PM
I don't know, actually. It may be that it is the team that made the man... That it was one of the reasons that she stuck with him through it all, because the two of them together are far larger than either would ever be alone...

Damocles
09-23-2006, 12:29 PM
There werent' no call, from no quarter, for Barbara Bush to run for dog catcher.

But that had nothing to do with her lack of "ambition" right Damo?
Who knows what Barbara Bush could have done with her life had that been what she wanted? You assume because she didn't spend the time working towards that and is what she currently is that she never could have gone there?

I don't. I do know that she never once even showed an interest in that side of things. However, other women that have have also been promoted in this same way...

It seems that you keep missing my actual example of such so you can keep attempting to poke at Barbara... Ridiculous.

Cypress
09-23-2006, 12:36 PM
I don't even particularly like Hillary.

But, lets face it: she deserves to be there. She's one of the brightest and sharptest tools in the shed. A true policy wonk, and shrewd operator.

There are a LOT of dull-witted dunderheads in the senate. Hillary is head and shoulders above many of them.

Cypress
09-23-2006, 12:39 PM
Who knows what Barbara Bush could have done with her life had that been what she wanted? You assume because she didn't spend the time working towards that and is what she currently is that she never could have gone there?

I don't. I do know that she never once even showed an interest in that side of things. However, other women that have have also been promoted in this same way...

It seems that you keep missing my actual example of such so you can keep attempting to poke at Barbara... Ridiculous.


Barbara bush made different choices in life. Marriage, kids, and staying at home. Yeah, maybe she could have gone to harvard business school and been a star. But, she chose not to.

Hillary was alwasy on a rocket ship. She made choices in life, and was determined to succeed in the legal profession and the realm of public policy.

apples and oranges.

Damocles
09-23-2006, 12:44 PM
Barbara bush made different choices in life. Marriage, kids, and staying at home. Yeah, maybe she could have gone to harvard business school and been a star. But, she chose not to.

Hillary was alwasy on a rocket ship. She made choices in life, and was determined to succeed in the legal profession and the realm of public policy.

apples and oranges.
Exactly... Using tools to get where you want to go, such as marriage, is an age-old thing that can help you get where you want. That I personally don't think as highly as I do of those who get there without such won't likely change because people can bring up examples of others who have, or that somebody is real smart. So are many others.

I have been consistently against legacy families since you and I have first met, pretending otherwise so I can back-pat Hillary? I don't think so!

Care4all
09-24-2006, 05:16 AM
This is so Absurd Damo....

Hillary made it to running for president because she has a husband....

But all those MEN in Congress made it there WITHOUT the help of their wives.

And all of those other women senators made it there ONLY because of their HUSBANDS.....

good going damo...

your foot can't go much farther down that throat of yours.... ;)

care

Prakosh
09-24-2006, 05:23 AM
Exactly... Using tools to get where you want to go, such as marriage, is an age-old thing that can help you get where you want. That I personally don't think as highly as I do of those who get there without such won't likely change because people can bring up examples of others who have, or that somebody is real smart. So are many others.

I have been consistently against legacy families since you and I have first met, pretending otherwise so I can back-pat Hillary? I don't think so!

So you really are against Bush then...?????

Care4all
09-24-2006, 05:51 AM
So you really are against Bush then...?????

If memory serves, I believe Damo voted for President Bush in 2000 but not in 2004....

I could be wrong, but he was a supporter of President Bush in the beginning and not a gore supporter.....

Cancel7
09-24-2006, 07:58 AM
I don't know, actually. It may be that it is the team that made the man... That it was one of the reasons that she stuck with him through it all, because the two of them together are far larger than either would ever be alone...

Oh you think?

In which case, Hillary did not become Senator because of who she married, but rather her own talents and her own intellect played a huge role.

Cancel7
09-24-2006, 08:02 AM
Who knows what Barbara Bush could have done with her life had that been what she wanted? You assume because she didn't spend the time working towards that and is what she currently is that she never could have gone there?

I don't. I do know that she never once even showed an interest in that side of things. However, other women that have have also been promoted in this same way...

It seems that you keep missing my actual example of such so you can keep attempting to poke at Barbara... Ridiculous.

First of all I have no idea of what your "actual example" is Damo

Second of all, you make the ludicrous assumption that intellect plays no role in the existence and development of ambition. Does this mean that all ambitious people have superior intellects? No. But, most with superior intellects do have ambition to something more than motherhood.

Cancel7
09-24-2006, 08:57 AM
Libbie Dole certainly had the ability... However, I would say much the same about her had she run...

Oh, Dole is your "example".

Your example of what? Don't you mean she's your further example of your incredible and, apparently unconcious, sexism?

Elizabeth Dole, a Duke and Harvard graduate, who also attended Oxford, was an extremely politically accomplished woman BEFORE she ever set eyes on Bob Dole, you incredible jackass.

She was an accomplished woman who met and married an accomplished man. She owes none of what she has or is to her husband.

Good God, I feel like throwing a shoe at you.

Prakosh
09-24-2006, 10:42 AM
If memory serves, I believe Damo voted for President Bush in 2000 but not in 2004....

I could be wrong, but he was a supporter of President Bush in the beginning and not a gore supporter.....

Well, either he didn't ever vote for Bush and has "consistently" been against "legacy families." Or he did vote for Bush and has just recently become "consistently" against "legacy families." Or he doesn't consider the Bush family a "legacy family" becuase he thinks that unlike women who must always have the help of their husbands, Bush did everything he ever did without the help of his father, from acces to the Texas Air Natonal Guard during Vietnam, to his connections that allowed him to parlay a half -assed oil drilling company into an international conglomerate, to his work with this father's presidential campaigns and his work with his father during his father's administration. Or maybe he defines Legacy family in a way that makes it a female thing. He really hasn't defined it yet as far as I can tell.

In any event I think at this point it is incumbant on him to define what he means by "legacy family" maybe it only applies to married couples.

Damocles
09-24-2006, 10:52 AM
This is so Absurd Damo....

Hillary made it to running for president because she has a husband....

But all those MEN in Congress made it there WITHOUT the help of their wives.

And all of those other women senators made it there ONLY because of their HUSBANDS.....

good going damo...

your foot can't go much farther down that throat of yours.... ;)

care
Read again, Care. I am more impressed by those who make it with their own work rather than that of others. Hillary is Senator in a state that wouldn't have voted her for Senator and speculation of running for President began before she even ran for Senator. This would not have happened without her husband. Period. And we are talking specifically of this one person, not of all women, etc.

You keep passing by my actual comments to throw up this strawman.

I will ask you one more time, Care...

Would Hillary be the Senator of New York State, as a carpetbagger coming from Arkansas (or let's assume Illinois as that is where she originally is from) without first being the first lady to Clinton? Really look within and actually honestly answer that question...

Do I think it would be possible for her to become a Senator? Sure I do... But with early speculation of Presidential runs? Before she actually ran for Senate even? No. As the Senate Seat being her very first elected position in government? Nope. Would it be in New York just after moving there? No fricking way....

Do you see where I am going here, Care? Attempting to say she used none of the benefit of the name of her husband is ridiculous, totally and unequivocally she did... Is it my opinion that she stayed with a cuckholding husband to keep that benefit? Yes, it is. Do I think less of her for it? You bet I do. Do I want my girls to emulate her? Hell, no!

Prakosh
09-24-2006, 10:57 AM
Read again, Care. I am more impressed by those who make it with their own work rather than that of others. Hillary is Senator in a state that wouldn't have voted her for Senator and speculation of running for President began before she even ran for Senator. This would not have happened without her husband. Period. And we are talking specifically of this one person, not of all women, etc.

You keep passing by my actual comments to throw up this strawman.

I will ask you one more time, Care...

Would Hillary be the Senator of New York State, as a carpetbagger coming from Arkansas (or let's assume Illinois as that is where she originally is from) without first being the first lady to Clinton? Really look within and actually honestly answer that question...

Do I think it would be possible for her to become a Senator? Sure I do... But with early speculation of Presidential runs? Before she actually ran for Senate even? No. As the Senate Seat being her very first elected position in government? Nope. Would it be in New York just after moving there? No fricking way....

Do you see where I am going here, Care? Attempting to say she used none of the benefit of the name of her husband is ridiculous, totally and unequivocally she did... Is it my opinion that she stayed with a cuckholding husband to keep that benefit? Yes, it is. Do I think less of her for it? You bet I do. Do I want my girls to emulate her? Hell, no!

Anyone else could write this same form of tirade against our currrent occupant of the White House George Bush. Yet you don't. You say you have been "consistently" against "legacy families." How do you define legacy families? If you had sons would you want them to emulate George Bush?

And if so why?

Cypress
09-24-2006, 11:17 AM
Until Bill was elected President, Hillary was in many ways more accomplished than her husband:

-Staff attorney for Watergate Impeachment
-Staff Attorney of Children's Defense Fund
-Faculty member of Univ. of Arkansas Law School
-Appointed by President Carter to Board Member of Congressional Legal Services Corporation
-First female partner of Rose Law Firm
-Twice named by National Law Journal, as one of American's top 100 lawyers
-Served as Board Member for numerous multi-billion dollar Corporations

All before Bill was even elected president.



Yeah, I'd love it if my daugher in law emulated her.

Damocles
09-24-2006, 11:24 AM
Anyone else could write this same form of tirade against our currrent occupant of the White House George Bush. Yet you don't. You say you have been "consistently" against "legacy families." How do you define legacy families? If you had sons would you want them to emulate George Bush?

And if so why?
Yet I do. You haven't read the thread... You make assumptions again? Man, you are a glutton for abuse. I do not like Bush and have stated that I have the same dislike for the way he got there, IN THIS VERY THREAD!

Damocles
09-24-2006, 11:25 AM
Until Bill was elected President, Hillary was in many ways more accomplished than her husband:

-Staff attorney for Watergate Impeachment
-Staff Attorney of Children's Defense Fund
-Faculty member of Univ. of Arkansas Law School
-Appointed by President Carter to Board Member of Congressional Legal Services Corporation
-First female partner of Rose Law Firm
-Twice named by National Law Journal, as one of American's top 100 lawyers
-Served as Board Member for numerous multi-billion dollar Corporations

All before Bill was even elected president.



Yeah, I'd love it if my daugher in law emulated her.
At least before she got cuckholded and held on to it regardless for the name...

I would not want my daughter to emulate those actions. I would love for my daughter to become a Senator, just not at the cost she paid.

Damocles
09-24-2006, 11:27 AM
Oh, Dole is your "example".

Your example of what? Don't you mean she's your further example of your incredible and, apparently unconcious, sexism?

Elizabeth Dole, a Duke and Harvard graduate, who also attended Oxford, was an extremely politically accomplished woman BEFORE she ever set eyes on Bob Dole, you incredible jackass.

She was an accomplished woman who met and married an accomplished man. She owes none of what she has or is to her husband.

Good God, I feel like throwing a shoe at you.
What a looney. Dole is an example of an accomplished woman who was put forward to run for President because of the name of her husband. Ignoring her accomplishments because it doesn't fit well with your argument isn't very becoming.

Cancel7
09-24-2006, 11:48 AM
Well, either he didn't ever vote for Bush and has "consistently" been against "legacy families." Or he did vote for Bush and has just recently become "consistently" against "legacy families." Or he doesn't consider the Bush family a "legacy family" becuase he thinks that unlike women who must always have the help of their husbands, Bush did everything he ever did without the help of his father, from acces to the Texas Air Natonal Guard during Vietnam, to his connections that allowed him to parlay a half -assed oil drilling company into an international conglomerate, to his work with this father's presidential campaigns and his work with his father during his father's administration. Or maybe he defines Legacy family in a way that makes it a female thing. He really hasn't defined it yet as far as I can tell.

In any event I think at this point it is incumbant on him to define what he means by "legacy family" maybe it only applies to married couples.

:)

Cancel7
09-24-2006, 11:53 AM
What a looney. Dole is an example of an accomplished woman who was put forward to run for President because of the name of her husband. Ignoring her accomplishments because it doesn't fit well with your argument isn't very becoming.

WTF are you talking about? I'm not ignoring her accomplishments, you are. I don't believe her sucess has anything to do with her husband, you clearly do.

Cancel7
09-24-2006, 11:57 AM
Read again, Care. I am more impressed by those who make it with their own work rather than that of others. Hillary is Senator in a state that wouldn't have voted her for Senator and speculation of running for President began before she even ran for Senator. This would not have happened without her husband. Period. And we are talking specifically of this one person, not of all women, etc.

You keep passing by my actual comments to throw up this strawman.

I will ask you one more time, Care...

Would Hillary be the Senator of New York State, as a carpetbagger coming from Arkansas (or let's assume Illinois as that is where she originally is from) without first being the first lady to Clinton? Really look within and actually honestly answer that question...

Do I think it would be possible for her to become a Senator? Sure I do... But with early speculation of Presidential runs? Before she actually ran for Senate even? No. As the Senate Seat being her very first elected position in government? Nope. Would it be in New York just after moving there? No fricking way....

Do you see where I am going here, Care? Attempting to say she used none of the benefit of the name of her husband is ridiculous, totally and unequivocally she did... Is it my opinion that she stayed with a cuckholding husband to keep that benefit? Yes, it is. Do I think less of her for it? You bet I do. Do I want my girls to emulate her? Hell, no!

This is a crock of BULLSHIT.

George Allen is the Senator of VA and comes from California, if I googled how many congress people and Senators could I find that ran and won in states other than their own.

YES, she could easily have been the Senator from NY without being married to Bill. We don't know, because we don't know what she would have done had she not married him AND become a mother. But, because of her accomplishments alongside that marriage, and motherhood, what we do know is that she would have been a professional, and due to her early work such as on the Watergate panel, we can clearly assume she would have entered politics.

You have no idea why she stayed with Bill, you are making assumptions on her motives and then assuming them to be and presenting them as fact. Which is a habit you have with posters here too.

Women, and oh yes! men, choose to stay with a spouse who has had an affair every fucking day.

You don't know their motives anymore than you know hers. And it's not your business to.

Prakosh
09-24-2006, 12:03 PM
Darla writes this:


Elizabeth Dole, a Duke and Harvard graduate, who also attended Oxford, was an extremely politically accomplished woman BEFORE she ever set eyes on Bob Dole, you incredible jackass.

Then you respond with this:


What a looney. Dole is an example of an accomplished woman who was put forward to run for President because of the name of her husband. Ignoring her accomplishments because it doesn't fit well with your argument isn't very becoming.

And then you fault me for not reading the whole thread and all of your posts in it before asking you a simple quetion. At least I read the posts I respond to. I don't really believe in reading a whole thread before posting. I wouldn't post a thing if I did that. Do you really expect every one who responds to read the whole thread before posting? You really should write all these rules down someplace for those of us who are unfamiliar with the board rules.

Cypress
09-24-2006, 12:06 PM
At least before she got cuckholded and held on to it regardless for the name...

I would not want my daughter to emulate those actions. I would love for my daughter to become a Senator, just not at the cost she paid.

You're making a lot of assumptions about why Hillary stayed married to Bill.

I don't think you or I are in a postion to know the details of their relationship. You die-hard republican DNA is showing Damo :)

Cypress
09-24-2006, 12:10 PM
George Allen is the Senator of VA and comes from California, if I googled how many congress people and Senators could I find that ran and won in states other than their own.

Of course you realize, that Dick Cheney was formally a resident of Texas, and therefore constitutionally barred from being George Bush's running mate in 2000....that is, until he quickly and belatedly, ran back to Wyoming (where he hadn't lived in years) to establish residency there ;)

Cancel7
09-24-2006, 12:21 PM
George Allen is the Senator of VA and comes from California, if I googled how many congress people and Senators could I find that ran and won in states other than their own.

Of course you realize, that Dick Cheney was formally a resident of Texas, and therefore constitutionally barred from being George Bush's running mate in 2000....that is, until he quickly and belatedly, ran back to Wyoming (where he hadn't lived in years) to establish residency there ;)

The only reason he was able to get elected as VP, being a carpetbagger, was because he's married to Lynne Cheney.

Known Fact. I sure would not want my sons to emulate him.

Prakosh
09-24-2006, 12:50 PM
Yet I do. You haven't read the thread... You make assumptions again? Man, you are a glutton for abuse. I do not like Bush and have stated that I have the same dislike for the way he got there, IN THIS VERY THREAD!

Ok, as I said I hadn't read every damn post in the five page thread, so for the sake of keeping you honest I went back through the thread and found this post:


Amazingly we hear how much Daddy's help got Bush his job and how his accomplishment is less for it, but we are supposed to ignore it for somebody else because they have a D near their name?

Now I know in hindsight this probably looks to you like a strong statement of disgust with how Bush attained his current status, and I can understand that, but to an uneducated eye such as mine, it really appears like someone whining about how put upon poor George has been because his Daddy got him there, while the Democrats are getting away with murder. Is there another post that I may have missed where you really give it to George for his "legacy" aid, because I gotta tell ya this just doesn't seem to me to be you complaining about how Bush got there, sorry. Of couse, it has been filtered through my eyes, so I will ask others here to comment or you can explain what I am missing. It's a short post so it shouldn't take much to show me exactly where you complain about how Bush got there. The part of the quote that shows that will do!!!

Cancel7
09-24-2006, 12:56 PM
Ok, as I said I hadn't read every damn post in the five page thread, so for the sake of keeping you honest I went back through the thread and found this post:



Now I know in hindsight this probably looks to you like a strong statement of disgust with how Bush attained his current status, and I can understand that, but to an uneducated eye such as mine, it really appears like someone whining about how put upon poor George has been because his Daddy got him there, while the Democrats are getting away with murder. Is there another post that I may have missed where you really give it to George for his "legacy" aid, because I gotta tell ya this just doesn't seem to me to be you complaining about how Bush got there, sorry. Of couse, it has been filtered through my eyes, so I will ask others here to comment or you can explain what I am missing. It's a short post so it shouldn't take much to show me exactly where you complain about how Bush got there. The part of the quote that shows that will do!!!

I read it the same way you did.

And if Damo believes that this is a strong stand, or ANY stand against how Bush became President, then this goes a long way to explaining why I rarely understand what the hell he is talking about, and anytime I get involved in a conversation with him I start to think maybe I am crazy, until I go back through the thread an ascertain that No I never said what he is claiming I must "have meant", and NO he never said what he claims "everybody knows" he thinks and in fact, you can find him saying it "yet again" on this very thread.

Damocles
09-24-2006, 06:01 PM
WTF are you talking about? I'm not ignoring her accomplishments, you are. I don't believe her sucess has anything to do with her husband, you clearly do.
I believe that her being suggested to take on the Presidency was largely because of the fame of her husband.

Damocles
09-24-2006, 06:05 PM
I read it the same way you did.

And if Damo believes that this is a strong stand, or ANY stand against how Bush became President, then this goes a long way to explaining why I rarely understand what the hell he is talking about, and anytime I get involved in a conversation with him I start to think maybe I am crazy, until I go back through the thread an ascertain that No I never said what he is claiming I must "have meant", and NO he never said what he claims "everybody knows" he thinks and in fact, you can find him saying it "yet again" on this very thread.
Rubbish. That I didn't go into a long dissertation on Bush doesn't mean that I am all for his getting the job. This is a strawman and based in inanity. I have been significantly against Bush, whom I will admit I voted for as what I thought was the "lesser of two evils" against Gore, but not against Kerry, I voted Badnarick that time. (How is it Bush would say it, "Fool me twice... Can't get tricked again!")

The thread isn't about Bush, unlike so many others. The world does not revolve around him. I have been vocal about my dislike of Bush before, that you ignore it or weren't around doesn't change it.

It is foolish to assume crap about me based on one single thread or the fact that I have a differing opinion of Clinton than you do...

uscitizen
09-24-2006, 06:25 PM
for another curve, another dynasty the Kennedys. Joe kennedy lost one son in the war and had another one wounded. How many bush clan members are in Iraq or Afganistan ?

Now I for sure don't take up for Teddy boy, just making a point.
I do agree with a couple of his points, but I am sure I agree with a few minor ones with Bush as well ;)

Cancel7
09-24-2006, 08:03 PM
I believe that her being suggested to take on the Presidency was largely because of the fame of her husband.

That's great. And some people believe that if they never have sex, don't masturbate, and never tell a lie, then upon their death they will be transported to a paradise that exists just above the clouds but that no one can see, and float around with a harp for eternity. Others believe that God hands out virgins as door prizes.

Still others believe that ciggerattes do not cause lung cancer. In fact, you name anything, and you can find some fool who believes it.

But you have no evidence of any such thing, and the fact remains that Elizabeth Dole was a politically accomplished, very well educated, upwardly mobile woman before she met Bob Dole.

And lastly, none of what you said does anything to explain why you accused me of "ignoring her accomplishments" to further my own ends.

Cancel7
09-24-2006, 08:07 PM
Rubbish. That I didn't go into a long dissertation on Bush doesn't mean that I am all for his getting the job. This is a strawman and based in inanity. I have been significantly against Bush, whom I will admit I voted for as what I thought was the "lesser of two evils" against Gore, but not against Kerry, I voted Badnarick that time. (How is it Bush would say it, "Fool me twice... Can't get tricked again!")

The thread isn't about Bush, unlike so many others. The world does not revolve around him. I have been vocal about my dislike of Bush before, that you ignore it or weren't around doesn't change it.

It is foolish to assume crap about me based on one single thread or the fact that I have a differing opinion of Clinton than you do...

Damo, you made this claim:

I have been consistently against legacy families since you and I have first met, pretending otherwise so I can back-pat Hillary? I don't think so!

Then Care said you had voted for Bush JR in 2000 and Prakosh pointed out if that were true, then your claim to have been "consistently" against legacy families would have to be called into question, since voting for one of them is not being "against them".

It's real simple.

Damocles
09-24-2006, 09:47 PM
Damo, you made this claim:

I have been consistently against legacy families since you and I have first met, pretending otherwise so I can back-pat Hillary? I don't think so!

Then Care said you had voted for Bush JR in 2000 and Prakosh pointed out if that were true, then your claim to have been "consistently" against legacy families would have to be called into question, since voting for one of them is not being "against them".

It's real simple.
Even while I voted for him then it was because of the "lesser of two evils" thing... I didn't make the same mistake. Pretending that none make such compromises regurlarly is just pretense and another strawman. I have been consistently against them. In that case BOTH of them were legacy families. Or did you forget that Gore's father was also a Senator?

It's real simple. When both candidates are Legacies what do you do? I thought at that time that voting Libertarian was wasting my vote. Instead I held my nose and voted for what I believed to the the "lesser evil"...

The next time I voted Badnarick.

Damocles
09-25-2006, 11:36 AM
That's great. And some people believe that if they never have sex, don't masturbate, and never tell a lie, then upon their death they will be transported to a paradise that exists just above the clouds but that no one can see, and float around with a harp for eternity. Others believe that God hands out virgins as door prizes.

Still others believe that ciggerattes do not cause lung cancer. In fact, you name anything, and you can find some fool who believes it.

But you have no evidence of any such thing, and the fact remains that Elizabeth Dole was a politically accomplished, very well educated, upwardly mobile woman before she met Bob Dole.

And lastly, none of what you said does anything to explain why you accused me of "ignoring her accomplishments" to further my own ends.
Amazingly, we have many years of life and observation of others, and the ability to place ourselves in other's shoes with reasonable accuracy. Pretending that it is the same as Faith-based irrelavancies is simply pretense.

As for the Dole portion. I'll give you that one. However I do have evidence of Libby Dole not being brought up until after her husbands bid... She was unknown beforehand and without her husband would not have been brought up and hence she makes an excellent example of what I am talking about.

This gets repetitive...

In a nation of 300 million people we can do better than continuously electing the same families to run our nation! There are other qualified people that we should put forward rather than continuously present the same people because of the fact that name recognition nets them tons of campaign contributions. These types of legacies promote the coin-operated government that I believe we should be working to end.