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View Full Version : Rove Shoots and Scores a Backfire



Cancel7
09-14-2006, 05:55 PM
It's really hard to laugh with something so serious at stake. But, I mean, it's not impossible.

First, I'm taken off guard by Warner. McCain, forget it, he's playing Presidential politics and his photo op, BS torture bill which he allowed bush to nullify with a flick of his pen, showed him for what he is. But Warner, you know, I'm looking, and I can't find any benefit. Is it possible he really believes that this law would be terrible not only for America's reputation and standing, but could cause grevious harm to any of our soldiers taken captive? I mean, of course that is all true, but so what? These f'ing guys, they got no heart, no soul, no nothing. They'd sell their own mothers for five votes and their children for ten. So is Warner actually taking a principled stand? And wouldn't that be something in this time we find ourselves in. Wouldn't that be something.

Ok, now the part that's just funny. Here you got Karl Rove, plotting all day and night how to f the dems and bringing up all this legislation near the election to force the dems to come out and vote against it so that inhuman shit can have more ammunition to call them defeatocrats who want the terrorists to win.

And what happens?

He starts a f'ing brawl between two different segments of the Republican party while Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer sit in their offices trying not to turn purple from laughing, in between making phone calls to the other members of their party, saying "ixnay on the securi-tay bill. keep your lips zipped and watch them rip each other apart"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14814940/

Care4all
09-14-2006, 06:03 PM
i love it! finally!

Cypress
09-14-2006, 06:05 PM
I think Colin Powell played the major role, in shutting down Bush's torture fantasies.

Its' reported the Powell came out publically and forcefully against Bush's torture plans.

And whatever we think of him, Powell is still regarded with respect amonst republican moderates and independents. Once Powell came out against Bush torture, McCain and Warner fell in line behind him.

Cancel7
09-14-2006, 06:13 PM
I think Colin Powell played the major role, in shutting down Bush's torture fantasies.

Its' reported the Powell came out publically and forcefully against Bush's torture plans.

And whatever we think of him, Powell is still regarded with respect amonst republican moderates and independents. Once Powell came out against Bush torture, McCain and Warner fell in line behind him.

You think so? I haven't had time to read more than the one article I posted about this. And I know what Powell did, but I didn't necessarily come to that conclusion. Maybe you are right...but I like to imagine we have one elected official, no matter how much of a turd I think he is on so many other things, who said enough, I'm drawing the line here. I don't know. Either way, it's not a win for Rove, nor is it how he envisioned this playing out, and that's always a good thing for the country, just by default. Because the guy is just evil.

Cancel7
09-14-2006, 06:13 PM
i love it! finally!

Me too! Hi Care. :)

Cypress
09-14-2006, 06:14 PM
You think so? I haven't had time to read more than the one article I posted about this. And I know what Powell did, but I didn't necessarily come to that conclusion. Maybe you are right...but I like to imagine we have one elected official, no matter how much of a turd I think he is on so many other things, who said enough, I'm drawing the line here. I don't know. Either way, it's not a win for Rove, nor is it how he envisioned this playing out, and that's always a good thing for the country, just by default. Because the guy is just evil.


Warner, Graham, and yes, even McCain are republicans who have a soul. Somewhere deep down inside. IMO ;).

I gotta take off. Take it easy, Darla

Damocles
09-14-2006, 08:11 PM
Nobody thinks that this might be part of the strategy to separate the Congress and Bush in people's mind by creating a false dichotomy? Interesting.

IHateGovernment
09-14-2006, 08:52 PM
News flash!!! Being a Republican doesn't automatically mean you're a supporter of evil deeds.

Prakosh
09-14-2006, 10:39 PM
There are more than a few pndits who are saying just what Damo says here. That whether or not planned as such, this bill may finally give the Republicans in Congress the kind of distance they need between themselves and the president. At least they cannow point ot one instance when they didn't all march in lock step. Except for McCain who can use this in his own presidential campaign I can't see it helping the ones who need it most, those facing re-elecction in the House, since they did march in lock step. The House gave Bush just what he wanted. If he gets a bill out of the Senate, then the two bills go to confernece and the kinks get worked out and Bush could still get what he wants or re-write the bill at the time he signs it, as is his want.

Damocles
09-15-2006, 06:03 AM
There are more than a few pndits who are saying just what Damo says here. That whether or not planned as such, this bill may finally give the Republicans in Congress the kind of distance they need between themselves and the president. At least they cannow point ot one instance when they didn't all march in lock step. Except for McCain who can use this in his own presidential campaign I can't see it helping the ones who need it most, those facing re-elecction in the House, since they did march in lock step. The House gave Bush just what he wanted. If he gets a bill out of the Senate, then the two bills go to confernece and the kinks get worked out and Bush could still get what he wants or re-write the bill at the time he signs it, as is his want.
Americans forget quickly, the Ds will need to get ads out now continuously painting them or this will work. They'll talk about this and any other time they voted against Bush and the minds of the voters will begin thinking of them as two separate entities rather than as one Party Entity...

Another thing that can do this, watch for it, is another thing like the "Contract With America" that would include things that Bush doesn't like that conservatives do, like Border and Port control.

Jarod
09-15-2006, 06:23 AM
Nobody thinks that this might be part of the strategy to separate the Congress and Bush in people's mind by creating a false dichotomy? Interesting.



Thats what I thought all along!

Cancel7
09-15-2006, 06:28 AM
Americans forget quickly, the Ds will need to get ads out now continuously painting them or this will work. They'll talk about this and any other time they voted against Bush and the minds of the voters will begin thinking of them as two separate entities rather than as one Party Entity...

Another thing that can do this, watch for it, is another thing like the "Contract With America" that would include things that Bush doesn't like that conservatives do, like Border and Port control.

Damo you've gone from "doesn't anyone think" straight to "or this will work" as if this is defintely the plan.

The House is still in lock step on this. This is a couple of Republican Senators, in no danger.

I don't believe this is any plan. Either way, it cuts into the known plan of bringing up these legislations to force the dems into a vote that the White House belives can then be used against them in November. They now have Republican cover. I think you're trying to put lipstick on a pig here.

Damocles
09-15-2006, 06:45 AM
Damo you've gone from "doesn't anyone think" straight to "or this will work" as if this is defintely the plan.

The House is still in lock step on this. This is a couple of Republican Senators, in no danger.

I don't believe this is any plan. Either way, it cuts into the known plan of bringing up these legislations to force the dems into a vote that the White House belives can then be used against them in November. They now have Republican cover. I think you're trying to put lipstick on a pig here.
It doesn't have to be a "plan" to work. It may happen without planning... I doubt it though. Very little happens in politics by accident.

Cancel7
09-15-2006, 06:54 AM
Ok, so Damo are you arguing here that there is no such thing as a principled Republican and so therefore, this must be Machiavellian in nature? It wouldn't take much to convince me of that.

Even if so, it's a backfire. It gives the Dems some high-profile Republican cover on what was to be the main charge against them, that they're soft on terrorism and can't protect little ole us.

And frankly, I don't think most voters care about what John Warner is doing, they're fed up with Congress, that equals anti-incumbent and that equals bad news for the majority party. The only reason Republicans have any hope, and I think we all know this at least, is because of the heavy redistricting done over the years making so many seats absolutely safe no matter what the congressperson does.

Damocles
09-15-2006, 07:05 AM
Ok, so Damo are you arguing here that there is no such thing as a principled Republican and so therefore, this must be Machiavellian in nature? It wouldn't take much to convince me of that.

Even if so, it's a backfire. It gives the Dems some high-profile Republican cover on what was to be the main charge against them, that they're soft on terrorism and can't protect little ole us.

And frankly, I don't think most voters care about what John Warner is doing, they're fed up with Congress, that equals anti-incumbent and that equals bad news for the majority party. The only reason Republicans have any hope, and I think we all know this at least, is because of the heavy redistricting done over the years making so many seats absolutely safe no matter what the congressperson does.
:rolleyes:

No, that is not what I am arguing.

I am saying that often people plan effective strategies in both parties. Pretending such things don't happen in your own party is simply covering eyes, and ears and screaming "La, la, la!" while pointing the finger of "evil" at others....

Anyway, watch for the second part of what I said... It's coming, if they are smart.

uscitizen
09-15-2006, 08:44 AM
Nobody thinks that this might be part of the strategy to separate the Congress and Bush in people's mind by creating a false dichotomy? Interesting.
Yep he is trying to do that, but at the same time , attending fund raisers and such. that is ok, if the people blame congress the Repubs might lose control and there goes a repub presidents power. a lose lose situation.

Jarod
09-15-2006, 10:31 AM
Brilliant stragety, all the Democrats really have this election is, vote for us to put a limit on Bush and his out of controll ways...

With this the Republicans are saying.. hey we can limit his out of control ways!

uscitizen
09-15-2006, 10:40 AM
Brilliant stragety, all the Democrats really have this election is, vote for us to put a limit on Bush and his out of controll ways...

With this the Republicans are saying.. hey we can limit his out of control ways!

Yes, but with the repubs it is sort of like fixing the fence after the cows have gotten out and cuased a fatal auto accident...

Jarod
09-15-2006, 11:36 AM
Yes, but with the repubs it is sort of like fixing the fence after the cows have gotten out and cuased a fatal auto accident...

To me its like proping the fense back up while at the same time cutting a hole so big in it that the cows can freely come and go as they please.

uscitizen
09-15-2006, 11:45 AM
Jarod, Yes your example is more accurate. I gladly stand corrected.