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The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 10:16 AM
You've probably seen this quote.

"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

Let'a apply this quote to the Creation/Evolution debate.

First, we'll look at the impossible.

It is impossible for something physical to created itself. This is a scientific fact. It is the law of causality. In fact, it is the foundation of all modern science.

In spite of this scientific evidence, atheists actually believe that the universe just popped into existence all by itself. This belief violates the most fundamental law of science, yet they believe it anyway.

Now that I have proven that the universe could not have created itself, what does that leave us with? You guessed it. The universe was created. Simple logic. Backed by science. End of discussion.

kudzu
03-18-2018, 10:24 AM
You've probably seen this quote.

"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

Let'a apply this quote to the Creation/Evolution debate.

First, we'll look at the impossible.

It is impossible for something physical to created itself. This is a scientific fact. It is the law of causality. In fact, it is the foundation of all modern science.

In spite of this scientific evidence, atheists actually believe that the universe just popped into existence all by itself. This belief violates the most fundamental law of science, yet they believe it anyway.

Now that I have proven that the universe could not have created itself, what does that leave us with? You guessed it. The universe was created. Simple logic. Backed by science. End of discussion.

Hogwash.. Many people who believe in God don't believe the creation myth.

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 10:33 AM
Hogwash.. Many people who believe in God don't believe the creation myth.

Do you have anything other than deflection? You completely ignored my argument and claimed that the only other alternative is a myth, because you cannot come up with a logical argument to save your life. I have posted the simple truth. That is why you did not even try to refute it. You can't.

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 10:36 AM
Hogwash.. Many people who believe in God don't believe the creation myth.

Anyone who doesn't believe that God created the universe is not a Christian.

evince
03-18-2018, 10:38 AM
Matter did not create itself


matter is just merely what exists


It is the nature of reality


from matter life was created

recombining conditions and matter in combination after combination


life is the result of some of those combinations under the right conditions.


matter can be proven to exist


no gods or monsters have ever been proven to exist

kudzu
03-18-2018, 10:39 AM
Anyone who doesn't believe that God created the universe is not a Christian.

The Mythical Dilmun and The Island of the Dead | Ancient Origins

www.ancient-origins.net/myths-legends/mythical-dilmun-and-island-dead-006801

Oct 12, 2016 - In Sumerian mythology, the mythical Dilmun was known as the bright and pure land, a paradise where sickness and death did not exist. The land of Dilmun was filled with divinely ordained and abundant water sources, brought forth from the subterranean realm by Utu/Shamash—the sun god—at the behest ...

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 10:43 AM
The Mythical Dilmun and The Island of the Dead | Ancient Origins

www.ancient-origins.net/myths-legends/mythical-dilmun-and-island-dead-006801

Oct 12, 2016 - In Sumerian mythology, the mythical Dilmun was known as the bright and pure land, a paradise where sickness and death did not exist. The land of Dilmun was filled with divinely ordained and abundant water sources, brought forth from the subterranean realm by Utu/Shamash—the sun god—at the behest ...

A non sequitur. Since you have conclusively demonstrated your total lack of any ability to present a logical argument, how about answering a simple yes or no question. Do you believe that it is possible for something to create itself? I require a simple yes or no. Can you do that?

kudzu
03-18-2018, 10:48 AM
A non sequitur. Since you have conclusively demonstrated your total lack of any ability to present a logical argument, how about answering a simple yes or no question. Do you believe that it is possible for something to create itself? I require a simple yes or no. Can you do that?

I enjoy creation myths and many like the one about Dilmun is much older than Genesis..

You want either/or... dump science and believe a fairy tale. I don't give a shit what you "require".....

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 11:10 AM
I enjoy creation myths and many like the one about Dilmun is much older than Genesis..

You want either/or... dump science and believe a fairy tale. I don't give a shit what you "require".....

You can't even answer a simple question. Is it any wonder no one takes you seriously? You're a pathetic joke. I offered scientific evidence to support my position. You have offered...nothing. Sucks to be you.

evince
03-18-2018, 11:14 AM
your whole premise is built on the idea that matter created its self


No one pretends that is true to my knowledge

kudzu
03-18-2018, 11:15 AM
You can't even answer a simple question. Is it any wonder no one takes you seriously? You're a pathetic joke. I offered scientific evidence to support my position. You have offered...nothing. Sucks to be you.

There is no scientific proof for creation... Do you also believe that disease is caused by demons?

You do believers a huge disservice to demand they believe in burning bushes, talking snakes ... or worldwide floods. You miss the whole point of these teaching narratives.

evince
03-18-2018, 11:15 AM
Did God create him self?

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 11:24 AM
There is no scientific proof for creation... Do you also believe that disease is caused by demons?

You do believers a huge disservice to demand they believe in burning bushes, talking snakes ... or worldwide floods. You miss the whole point of these teaching narratives.

More deflection...YAWWWWWWWN!

This discussion is not about God or the Bible. I stated a scientific fact. I used that fact to prove that the universe requires a creator, whoever or whatever that is. A Creator who was not created but has always existed. This view is backed by science. There had to be a primal cause for the physical universe. Science is clear on this, since you cannot have an infinite regression of causes. Simple logic, backed by science.

So, this discussion cannot continue until you answer my question. Do you believe that it is possible for something to create itself? It's a simple question. Why won't you answer it?

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 11:52 AM
I know why you won't answer my question. If you answer yes, you look like an idiot, because it is contrary to all of science. If you answer no, you would be agreeing with my argument. So your best bet is to not answer the question. Good call.

kudzu
03-18-2018, 11:58 AM
More deflection...YAWWWWWWWN!

This discussion is not about God or the Bible. I stated a scientific fact. I used that fact to prove that the universe requires a creator, whoever or whatever that is. A Creator who was not created but has always existed. This view is backed by science. There had to be a primal cause for the physical universe. Science is clear on this, since you cannot have an infinite regression of causes. Simple logic, backed by science.

So, this discussion cannot continue until you answer my question. Do you believe that it is possible for something to create itself? It's a simple question. Why won't you answer it?

You haven't scientifically proven there must be a creator.. You're conflating religious explanation of origins for a bronze age people to try and challenge modern scientific theory and ongoing study. Its asinine.

There are plenty of scientists, engineers, chemists, geologists, archaeologist who also believe in God .. Unlike you they don't believe the earth is 6,000 years old or that men shared the planet with dinosaurs.

evince
03-18-2018, 12:02 PM
answer my questions


if you can

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 12:06 PM
You haven't scientifically proven there must be a creator.. You're conflating religious explanation of origins for a bronze age people to try and challenge modern scientific theory and ongoing study. Its asinine.

There are plenty of scientists, engineers, chemists, geologists, archaeologist who also believe in God .. Unlike you they don't believe the earth is 6,000 years old or that men shared the planet with dinosaurs.

Answer the question.

kudzu
03-18-2018, 12:12 PM
Answer the question.

You are demanding an answer? LOLOL.. Science is science and bronze age creation myths are bronze age creation myths.

evince
03-18-2018, 12:13 PM
Answer the question.

you never answer the ones you cant blabber away

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 12:14 PM
You are demanding an answer? LOLOL.. Science is science and bronze age creation myths are bronze age creation myths.

Answer the question. What are you afraid of?

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 12:18 PM
You are demanding an answer? LOLOL.. Science is science

And science has proven that it is impossible for something to create itself. I asked your opinion of a scientific fact, yet you refuse to answer. That tells me all I need to know. You hide behind science, but you don't really believe in it, or even understand it. Especially when it doesn't agree with you. Facts are facts. I presented one. I asked you for your opinion. You refuse to answer. In my book, that makes you a loser. Sucks to be you.

kudzu
03-18-2018, 12:23 PM
Answer the question. What are you afraid of?

I have answered your question.. You just don't like the answers.. You are trying to compare apples and gerbils.

evince
03-18-2018, 12:27 PM
I have answered your question.. You just don't like the answers.. You are trying to compare apples and gerbils.

what post number ?

kudzu
03-18-2018, 12:28 PM
This may help......

Within the Christian world, creationism was once widely believed to be true, but since the mid-19th century evolution by natural selection has been established as an empirical scientific fact.

The debate is philosophical, not scientific: in the scientific community, evolution is accepted as fact and efforts to sustain the traditional view are almost universally regarded as pseudoscience. While the controversy has a long history, today it has retreated to be mainly over what constitutes good science education.

evince
03-18-2018, 12:30 PM
You've probably seen this quote.

"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

Let'a apply this quote to the Creation/Evolution debate.

First, we'll look at the impossible.

It is impossible for something physical to created itself. This is a scientific fact. It is the law of causality. In fact, it is the foundation of all modern science.

In spite of this scientific evidence, atheists actually believe that the universe just popped into existence all by itself. This belief violates the most fundamental law of science, yet they believe it anyway.

Now that I have proven that the universe could not have created itself, what does that leave us with? You guessed it. The universe was created. Simple logic. Backed by science. End of discussion.

your assumptions are WRONG

No one says that matter created its self.


your entire thing is based on non fact

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 12:37 PM
I have answered your question.. You just don't like the answers.. You are trying to compare apples and gerbils.

I asked you if you believe it's possible for something to create itself. You have not answered the question.

kudzu
03-18-2018, 12:39 PM
I asked you if you believe it's possible for something to create itself. You have not answered the question.

And I told you that creationism is pseudo science....... or to be kinder.. philosophy.

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 12:41 PM
This may help......

Within the Christian world, creationism was once widely believed to be true, but since the mid-19th century evolution by natural selection has been established as an empirical scientific fact.

The debate is philosophical, not scientific: in the scientific community, evolution is accepted as fact and efforts to sustain the traditional view are almost universally regarded as pseudoscience. While the controversy has a long history, today it has retreated to be mainly over what constitutes good science education.

First of all, evolution is not a fact. You're a fool if you believe otherwise. Also, this is not about evolution. It is about the fact that a physical universe exists. Science tells us it could not have created itself. It is a scientific impossibility. So it must have been created. Prove me wrong. You can't. You deflect and refuse to answer a simple question. You lose.

evince
03-18-2018, 12:42 PM
its a FAITH

it should not tamper in science

or politics


or math


or laws


or non believers lives

evince
03-18-2018, 12:43 PM
First of all, evolution is not a fact. You're a fool if you believe otherwise. Also, this is not about evolution. It is about the fact that a physical universe exists. Science tells us it could not have created itself. It is a scientific impossibility. So it must have been created. Prove me wrong. You can't. You deflect and refuse to answer a simple question. You lose.

god is not a fact

science has proof it exists


god not so much

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 12:43 PM
And I told you that creationism is pseudo science....... or to be kinder.. philosophy.

And yet real science tells us that something cannot create itself. So, why does the universe exist? There are only two options. One has been scientifically discredited. That means the other must be true. The universe was created.

evince
03-18-2018, 12:44 PM
matter is the nature of existence

matter is what reality is


you believe a man in the sky created himself right


that is anti science huh

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 12:47 PM
I asked you if you believe
why do you conflate that with "proved"?......

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 12:48 PM
First of all, evolution is not a fact.

I disagree.....I believe it is a fact that yellow butterflies evolved from green ones......

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 01:01 PM
I disagree.....I believe it is a fact that yellow butterflies evolved from green ones......

That's not evolution. It's adaptation. The expression of genetic traits that already exist. Evolutionists make the mistake of believe that these adaptations result in new species. By species, I mean kinds. A kind is a cat or a dog (including foxes, coyotes and wolves) or birds. There are many 'species' of each, but they are still cats dogs and birds.

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 01:04 PM
why do you conflate that with "proved"?......
I don't. I asked if he believed that something could create itself. Still waiting for an answer.

evince
03-18-2018, 01:07 PM
then god could not have created himself

evince
03-18-2018, 01:09 PM
That's not evolution. It's adaptation. The expression of genetic traits that already exist. Evolutionists make the mistake of believe that these adaptations result in new species. By species, I mean kinds. A kind is a cat or a dog (including foxes, coyotes and wolves) or birds. There are many 'species' of each, but they are still cats dogs and birds.

evolution is fact


there is tons of evidence its true


there is no such proof of any gods or monsters

kudzu
03-18-2018, 01:10 PM
then god could not have created himself

I wonder about the Natufians who lived in the Levant from around 12,500 to 9,500 BC.

evince
03-18-2018, 01:14 PM
how I wish the religious would remember its FAITH not FACT

when religions tries to control science its NOT GOOD for mankind


cant we learn from the past

kudzu
03-18-2018, 01:16 PM
I also wonder about the cave art of CANTABRIA, SPAIN created some 30,000 years ago by Ice age women and children.

evince
03-18-2018, 01:20 PM
its compelling stuff

but all those religions cant be correct

which ONE is correct

or are they all myths


that only one of them is correct if ANY of them are correct


that means at best most are not true



hmmmmm

domer76
03-18-2018, 01:36 PM
You've probably seen this quote.

"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

Let'a apply this quote to the Creation/Evolution debate.

First, we'll look at the impossible.

It is impossible for something physical to created itself. This is a scientific fact. It is the law of causality. In fact, it is the foundation of all modern science.

In spite of this scientific evidence, atheists actually believe that the universe just popped into existence all by itself. This belief violates the most fundamental law of science, yet they believe it anyway.

Now that I have proven that the universe could not have created itself, what does that leave us with? You guessed it. The universe was created. Simple logic. Backed by science. End of discussion.

Easy logic to defeat. The physical can’t create itself? Great. Your god isn’t physical and therefire does not exist.

BAM!

End of discussion.

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 01:55 PM
Easy logic to defeat. The physical can’t create itself? Great. Your god isn’t physical and therefire does not exist.

BAM!

End of discussion.

Simplistic thinking. Just because something is not physical does not mean it doesn't exist. The universal physical constants that shape our universe are not physical. They are not composed of matter or energy. They are not physical, yet they affect the physical. They exist. If they didn't, the universe wouldn't exist. You really should educate yourself. Your ignorance offends me.

evince
03-18-2018, 01:58 PM
you assumed in your first statement that nothing can create its self


who created God?

domer76
03-18-2018, 02:02 PM
Simplistic thinking. Just because something is not physical does not mean it doesn't exist. The universal physical constants that shape our universe are not physical. They are not composed of matter or energy. They are not physical, yet they affect the physical. They exist. If they didn't, the universe wouldn't exist. You really should educate yourself. Your ignorance offends me.

You made up your god. Not the reverse.

BAM!

Dismissed

MAGA MAN
03-18-2018, 02:05 PM
You've probably seen this quote.

"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

Let'a apply this quote to the Creation/Evolution debate.

First, we'll look at the impossible.

It is impossible for something physical to created itself. This is a scientific fact. It is the law of causality. In fact, it is the foundation of all modern science.

In spite of this scientific evidence, atheists actually believe that the universe just popped into existence all by itself. This belief violates the most fundamental law of science, yet they believe it anyway.

Now that I have proven that the universe could not have created itself, what does that leave us with? You guessed it. The universe was created. Simple logic. Backed by science. End of discussion.

Who created God?

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 02:08 PM
You made up your god. Not the reverse.

BAM!

Dismissed

So, you must believe that something can create itself. Seriously? BAM! Pwned you!

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 02:09 PM
Who created God?

That stupid question has been answered countless times. Don't believe, for one second, that it's in any way clever or even relevant to the discussion.

MAGA MAN
03-18-2018, 02:10 PM
That stupid question has been answered countless times. Don't believe, for one second, that it's in any way clever or even relevant to the discussion.

Link up.

evince
03-18-2018, 02:11 PM
That stupid question has been answered countless times. Don't believe, for one second, that it's in any way clever or even relevant to the discussion.

then answering it should be easy

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 02:12 PM
Link up.

Link up what? I suppose you want a link for what I said. Do you seriously expect me to believe that you don't know the answer to that question? Get real.

MAGA MAN
03-18-2018, 02:15 PM
Link up what? I suppose you want a link for what I said. Do you seriously expect me to believe that you don't know the answer to that question? Get real.

I don't know your answer to that question. That's why I ax'd.

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 02:17 PM
I don't know your answer to that question. That's why I ax'd.

Then you're not paying attention, since I have already answered it on this thread. Try to keep up.

evince
03-18-2018, 02:18 PM
Link up what? I suppose you want a link for what I said. Do you seriously expect me to believe that you don't know the answer to that question? Get real.

this is a childish tactic


If you cant produce the proof of your claim insulting people will not cover that up

evince
03-18-2018, 02:18 PM
Then you're not paying attention, since I have already answered it on this thread. Try to keep up.

what post number?

MAGA MAN
03-18-2018, 02:19 PM
Then you're not paying attention, since I have already answered it on this thread. Try to keep up.

Not to my satisfaction...

domer76
03-18-2018, 02:26 PM
So, you must believe that something can create itself. Seriously? BAM! Pwned you!

You're claiming your god did, dumbfuck.

Get the fuck out of here so the collective IQ can increase.

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 02:27 PM
Not to my satisfaction...

Your satisfaction is not my concern. Get used to it.

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 02:30 PM
You're claiming your god did, dumbfuck.

Get the fuck out of here so the collective IQ can increase.

No. I did not. I said that He always existed. That means that there was never a time when He did not exist. That's what eternal means. So, who's really the dumb f*ck? BTW, you spelled it wrong. It's two words. Not one. And you call me dumb? Priceless.

domer76
03-18-2018, 02:34 PM
No. I did not. I said that He always existed. That means that there was never a time when He did not exist. That's what eternal means. So, who's really the dumb f*ck? BTW, you spelled it wrong. It's two words. Not one. And you call me dumb? Priceless.

lol

"Always existed" is even more incredibly ignorant.

And, dumbfuck, as the noun, it is one word. One word that describes you. DUMBFUCK. A dumb fuck is what your parents did to create you.

evince
03-18-2018, 02:34 PM
nope

matter has always existed


there is proof of matter

there is no proof of god

evince
03-18-2018, 02:35 PM
Your satisfaction is not my concern. Get used to it.

how jesusy of you

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 02:47 PM
lol

"Always existed" is even more incredibly ignorant.

And, dumbfuck, as the noun, it is one word. One word that describes you. DUMBFUCK. A dumb fuck is what your parents did to create you.

If your opinion actually meant anything to me, I might be insulted. BTW, Scientists claim that energy has always existed. I suppose you think they are also dumb. BTW, Dumbfuck is not in the dictionary, so is not even proper English. It's a slang term.

evince
03-18-2018, 02:53 PM
If your opinion actually meant anything to me, I might be insulted. BTW, Scientists claim that energy has always existed. I suppose you think they are also dumb. BTW, Dumbfuck is not in the dictionary, so is not even proper English. It's a slang term.

matter and energy have proof they exist

gods and monsters don't have proof they exist

domer76
03-18-2018, 02:55 PM
If your opinion actually meant anything to me, I might be insulted. BTW, Scientists claim that energy has always existed. I suppose you think they are also dumb. BTW, Dumbfuck is not in the dictionary, so is not even proper English. It's a slang term.

Do they claim that? Provide us a link to that theory, will you? I'd like to read it.

A slang term? Really? No shit, Einstein.

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 02:57 PM
Do they claim that? Provide us a link to that theory, will you? I'd like to read it.

A slang term? Really? No shit, Einstein.

Look it up yourself, you dumbfuck. You do know know how to use Google. Right?

kudzu
03-18-2018, 03:01 PM
nope

matter has always existed


there is proof of matter

there is no proof of god

I think that's true.. Funny that Genesis doesn't mention the civilizations that existed 30-40,000 years ago.

evince
03-18-2018, 03:13 PM
Look it up yourself, you dumbfuck. You do know know how to use Google. Right?

how Jesusy of you

evince
03-18-2018, 03:14 PM
If your opinion actually meant anything to me, I might be insulted. BTW, Scientists claim that energy has always existed. I suppose you think they are also dumb. BTW, Dumbfuck is not in the dictionary, so is not even proper English. It's a slang term.

In an adult conversation you are the one who has to produce facts to back your claims

domer76
03-18-2018, 03:34 PM
Look it up yourself, you dumbfuck. You do know know how to use Google. Right?

You made the claim, dumbfuck. Try to back your bullshit up with some REAL science, for once.

Let’s see the paper(s) that claim energy always existed.

Ralph
03-18-2018, 03:40 PM
Matter did not create itself


matter is just merely what exists


It is the nature of reality


from matter life was created

recombining conditions and matter in combination after combination


life is the result of some of those combinations under the right conditions.


matter can be proven to exist


no gods or monsters have ever been proven to exist

Idiot....just how did "MATTER" come to exist?

You do comprehend just what defines MATTER?

Matter: That which "occupies space". For something to occupy...i.e., take up empty space and replace it with physical susbstance.....matter must have Mass. What is mass?

Mass: WEIGHT.


Again answer the question, WHERE DID the MATTER/MASS come from that made up the properties of the BIG BANG?

Do you think its scientific, logical or reasonable to claim that MATTER IS SIMPLY JUST WHAT EXISTS? Do you comprehend EXISTS? It means that Matter/Mass was extant. Physically existent.

Thus....the real scientific question that requires a scientific answer.......according to the law of physics "the law causality" What superior force CASUED your (EFFECT) MATTER to EXIST?


And prove one example that has been generated via the application of the Scientific Method that demonstrates that LIFE can come from non living mass/matter. Abiogensis.

And how can evolution be accepted as a viable scientifically based truth......if the only why nature can produce life is from preexisting life as Louis Pasteur proved via application of the scientific method of experimentation?

Both.....the BIG BANG and LIFE EVLOVING FROM organic non living matter are both FAIRY TALES.


Was it "magic" that allowed it to simply JUST EXIST? :palm: You 'claim' to be working with SCIENCE.....apply science and answer the questions.

evince
03-18-2018, 03:42 PM
matter is the nature of existence


period

no need for a creator

its just the reality of existence

evince
03-18-2018, 03:43 PM
there is proof that matter exists


there is no proof Gods or monsters exist

evince
03-18-2018, 03:44 PM
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/matter



Definition of matter
1
a : a subject under consideration Several other matters will come before the committee.
b : a subject of disagreement or litigation The matter in dispute is basically trivial.
c matters plural : the events or circumstances of a particular situation planned to discuss matters with her husband soon
d : the subject or substance of a discourse or writing A graceful style was not enough to hide a paucity of matter.
e : something of an indicated kind or having to do with an indicated field or situation this is a serious matter as a matter of policy matters of faith
f : something to be proved in law
g obsolete : sensible or serious material as distinguished from nonsense or drollery
h (1) obsolete : reason, cause (2) : a source especially of feeling or emotion
i : problem, difficulty What's the matter?
2
a : the substance of which a physical object is composed
b : material substance that occupies space, has mass, and is composed predominantly of atoms consisting of protons, neutrons, and electrons, that constitutes the observable universe, and that is interconvertible with energy
c : a material substance of a particular kind or for a particular purpose vegetable matter
d (1) : material (such as feces or urine) discharged from the living body (2) : material discharged by suppuration : pus
3
a : the indeterminate subject of reality; especially : the element in the universe that undergoes formation and alteration
b : the formless substratum of all things which exists only potentially and upon which form acts to produce realities
4
: a more or less definite amount or quantity cooks in a matter of minutes
5
: something written or printed matter suitable for photocomposition
6
: mail first-class matter
7
Christian Science : the illusion that the objects perceived by the physical senses have the reality of substance

Ralph
03-18-2018, 03:51 PM
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/matter



Definition of matter
1
a : a subject under consideration Several other matters will come before the committee.
b : a subject of disagreement or litigation The matter in dispute is basically trivial.
c matters plural : the events or circumstances of a particular situation planned to discuss matters with her husband soon
d : the subject or substance of a discourse or writing A graceful style was not enough to hide a paucity of matter.
e : something of an indicated kind or having to do with an indicated field or situation this is a serious matter as a matter of policy matters of faith
f : something to be proved in law
g obsolete : sensible or serious material as distinguished from nonsense or drollery
h (1) obsolete : reason, cause (2) : a source especially of feeling or emotion
i : problem, difficulty What's the matter?
2
a : the substance of which a physical object is composed
b : material substance that occupies space, has mass, and is composed predominantly of atoms consisting of protons, neutrons, and electrons, that constitutes the observable universe, and that is interconvertible with energy
c : a material substance of a particular kind or for a particular purpose vegetable matter
d (1) : material (such as feces or urine) discharged from the living body (2) : material discharged by suppuration : pus
3
a : the indeterminate subject of reality; especially : the element in the universe that undergoes formation and alteration
b : the formless substratum of all things which exists only potentially and upon which form acts to produce realities
4
: a more or less definite amount or quantity cooks in a matter of minutes
5
: something written or printed matter suitable for photocomposition
6
: mail first-class matter
7
Christian Science : the illusion that the objects perceived by the physical senses have the reality of substance

So....your (wink, wink) SCIENTIFIC ANSWER as to what caused the effect known as mass/matter........is "Matter just exists"? Or.....nothing in this physical universe is real.....its an ILLUSION that deceives our senses? And you are the one working WITH SCIENCE? :laugh: I see.....and you say YOU ARE NOT BAT SHIT CRAZY?

evince
03-18-2018, 03:54 PM
matter exists

that has been proven

god or monsters have no proof they exist

matter and energy are the facts if reality

they have always existed

there is no proof god has always existed


if you can accept the theory that god has always existed without proof he ever existed

then whats so hard abut the idea that matter and energy have always existed and have been proven to exist today

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 04:22 PM
You made the claim, dumbfuck. Try to back your bullshit up with some REAL science, for once.

Let’s see the paper(s) that claim energy always existed.

Sorry. I'm not your personal secretary. Look it up yourself, or remain ignorant. I've got nothing to prove. This is basic high school science. You did graduate, didn't you? I wonder.

domer76
03-18-2018, 04:23 PM
Sorry. I'm not your personal secretary. Look it up yourself, or remain ignorant. I've got nothing to prove. This is basic high school science. You did graduate, didn't you? I wonder.

Concession noted.

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 04:33 PM
Concession noted.

That's funny. I don't recall conceding anything. Let's try this. Are you aware of what scientists say about energy? It cannot be created or destroyed. Now, if it cannot be created, and I'm not saying that it can't be, then it must have always existed. Like I said. Basic high school science.

Frank Apisa
03-18-2018, 04:44 PM
You've probably seen this quote.

"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

Let'a apply this quote to the Creation/Evolution debate.

First, we'll look at the impossible.

It is impossible for something physical to created itself. This is a scientific fact. It is the law of causality. In fact, it is the foundation of all modern science.

In spite of this scientific evidence, atheists actually believe that the universe just popped into existence all by itself. This belief violates the most fundamental law of science, yet they believe it anyway.

Now that I have proven that the universe could not have created itself, what does that leave us with? You guessed it. The universe was created. Simple logic. Backed by science. End of discussion.

Maybe the universe was NOT CREATED.


Simply because you are asserting it was...and because you are pretending that your assertion is backed by facts...doesn't mean it was.

People like you want to assert that the universe is a creation...so that you can demand a creator.

Get off it.

domer76
03-18-2018, 04:46 PM
That's funny. I don't recall conceding anything. Let's try this. Are you aware of what scientists say about energy? It cannot be created or destroyed. Now, if it cannot be created, and I'm not saying that it can't be, then it must have always existed. Like I said. Basic high school science.

Let’s try this dumbfuck. You made a claim. I merely want you to provide the source of your information. A scientific and peer-reviewed paper stating that energy always existed.

Shouldn’t be too difficult for you. That is, unless it’s pure bullshit.

ThatOwlWoman
03-18-2018, 05:10 PM
You've probably seen this quote.
"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."
Let'a apply this quote to the Creation/Evolution debate.
First, we'll look at the impossible.
It is impossible for something physical to created itself. This is a scientific fact. It is the law of causality. In fact, it is the foundation of all modern science.
In spite of this scientific evidence, atheists actually believe that the universe just popped into existence all by itself. This belief violates the most fundamental law of science, yet they believe it anyway.
Now that I have proven that the universe could not have created itself, what does that leave us with? You guessed it. The universe was created. Simple logic. Backed by science. End of discussion.

How do you know it's impossible? As is often the case, when laypersons try to corrupt science to make a point, you leave out the "as far as we know currently" caveat. The so-called Big Bang theory is the most widely-accepted(for now!) explanation for the beginnings of our present Universe. It takes extremely complex mathematics to describe the conditions at the moment of expansion, but we know it happened due to the residual radiation left behind. This article is written in layperson's language.
https://www.space.com/25126-big-bang-theory.html

You haven't proven anything other than desperation to try to convince ppl that you're right and everyone else who doesn't believe like you do are wrong.

Kind of what Muslims are accused of doing.

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 05:13 PM
Maybe the universe was NOT CREATED.


Simply because you are asserting it was...and because you are pretending that your assertion is backed by facts...doesn't mean it was.

People like you want to assert that the universe is a creation...so that you can demand a creator.

Get off it.

If it wasn't created, then why does it exist? It didn't create itself.

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 05:15 PM
Let’s try this dumbfuck. You made a claim. I merely want you to provide the source of your information. A scientific and peer-reviewed paper stating that energy always existed.

Shouldn’t be too difficult for you. That is, unless it’s pure bullshit.

You know what? I really dislike it when someone cannot reply without using personal insults. I especially hate it when said person is such an ignoramus. You can't even comprehend grade school science. Pathetic. Welcome to my ignore list.

ThatOwlWoman
03-18-2018, 05:16 PM
If it wasn't created, then why does it exist? It didn't create itself.

The problem here is that you are assuming that the existence of an object presumes the existence of a creator of that object. As pointed out by Frank, you want there to be a creator so you are ignoring science, logic, and current knowledge in order to make an argument that would demand that there is a creator.

There is zero evidence either way for the existence of such a being, or the non-existence.

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 05:18 PM
How do you know it's impossible? As is often the case, when laypersons try to corrupt science to make a point, you leave out the "as far as we know currently" caveat. The so-called Big Bang theory is the most widely-accepted(for now!) explanation for the beginnings of our present Universe. It takes extremely complex mathematics to describe the conditions at the moment of expansion, but we know it happened due to the residual radiation left behind. This article is written in layperson's language.
https://www.space.com/25126-big-bang-theory.html

You haven't proven anything other than desperation to try to convince ppl that you're right and everyone else who doesn't believe like you do are wrong.

Kind of what Muslims are accused of doing.

It is impossible. The fundamental law of physics is the law of causality. Nothing can create itself. It's a scientific fact.

domer76
03-18-2018, 05:24 PM
You know what? I really dislike it when someone cannot reply without using personal insults. I especially hate it when said person is such an ignoramus. You can't even comprehend grade school science. Pathetic. Welcome to my ignore list.

Wow! A very dramatic concession to boot!

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 05:30 PM
That's not evolution.

isn't the creation of a new species the very essence of evolution?.....in fact, the only evolution which is scientifically proven?....

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 05:31 PM
I don't.

then stop starting threads claiming you've proven something that everyone knows can't be proved......

ThatOwlWoman
03-18-2018, 05:32 PM
It is impossible. The fundamental law of physics is the law of causality. Nothing can create itself. It's a scientific fact.

Actually, it is not. I think that you are talking about the first law of thermodynamics which states that matter can neither be created nor destroyed. Have you taken any science courses at the university level? Maybe this analogy will help. Think of an atomic bomb warhead. It contains a shaped charge surrounding enriched plutonium (P-239). When the charge is triggered, it compresses the plutonium to a critical mass, which then causes the nuclear explosion. What happens to all the materials in that warhead? They're gone, right? Not exactly. Most of the material is converted into energy, therefore showing that the first law is valid.

As for the Universe, the Big Bang, and the first law:

"It really describes a very rapid expansion or stretching of space itself rather than an explosion in pre-existing space. Perhaps a better analogy sometimes used to describe the even expansion of galaxies throughout the universe is that of raisins baked in a cake becoming more distant from each other as the cake rises and expands, or alternatively of a balloon inflating.

"Neither does it attempt to explain what initiated the creation of the universe, or what came before the Big Bang, or even what lies outside the universe. All of this is generally considered to be outside the remit of physics, and more the concern of philosophy. Given that time and space as we understand it began with the Big Bang, the phase “before the Big Bang” is as meaningless as “north of the North Pole”.

"Therefore, to those who claim that the very idea of a Big Bang violates the First Law of Thermodynamics (also known as the Law of Conservation of Energy) that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed, proponents respond that the Big Bang does not address the creation of the universe, only its evolution, and that, as the laws of science break down anyway as we approach the creation of the universe, there is no reason to believe that the First Law of Thermodynamics would apply."

( https://www.physicsoftheuniverse.com/topics_bigbang.html )

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 05:34 PM
I also wonder about the cave art of CANTABRIA, SPAIN created some 30,000 years ago by Ice age women and children.

why do you wonder.......they are descendants of God's created, just like everyone else.....

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 05:36 PM
Who created God?

why do people think that question stops the discussion.......nobody created God you dimwitted atheist.......

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 05:37 PM
Link up.

post #93.....

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 05:39 PM
I don't know your answer to that question. That's why I ax'd.

I'm pretty sure I answered it for you just last week........are you just an idiot or do you have a short memory.....

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 05:40 PM
Not to my satisfaction...

fuck your satisfaction.......even if you are not satisfied, an eternal being has no beginning and therefore needs no creator.....

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 05:41 PM
Look it up yourself, you dumbfuck. You do know know how to use Google. Right?

I disagree.....in the sentence "Domer is a dumbfuck" it is properly one word.......

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 05:42 PM
I think that's true.. Funny that Genesis doesn't mention the civilizations that existed 30-40,000 years ago.

what do they gave to do with the message of God's salvation.......

kudzu
03-18-2018, 05:58 PM
what do they gave to do with the message of God's salvation.......

So God had no interest in human kind until 5777 years ago when Adam and Eve appeared on the scene?

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 06:13 PM
then stop starting threads claiming you've proven something that everyone knows can't be proved......

Excuse me, but I used a scientific fact as my proof. Nothing physical can create itself. The physical universe exists. Therefore, it was created. Simple logic.

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 06:19 PM
Actually, it is not. I think that you are talking about the first law of thermodynamics which states that matter can neither be created nor destroyed. Have you taken any science courses at the university level? Maybe this analogy will help. Think of an atomic bomb warhead. It contains a shaped charge surrounding enriched plutonium (P-239). When the charge is triggered, it compresses the plutonium to a critical mass, which then causes the nuclear explosion. What happens to all the materials in that warhead? They're gone, right? Not exactly. Most of the material is converted into energy, therefore showing that the first law is valid.

As for the Universe, the Big Bang, and the first law:

"It really describes a very rapid expansion or stretching of space itself rather than an explosion in pre-existing space. Perhaps a better analogy sometimes used to describe the even expansion of galaxies throughout the universe is that of raisins baked in a cake becoming more distant from each other as the cake rises and expands, or alternatively of a balloon inflating.

"Neither does it attempt to explain what initiated the creation of the universe, or what came before the Big Bang, or even what lies outside the universe. All of this is generally considered to be outside the remit of physics, and more the concern of philosophy. Given that time and space as we understand it began with the Big Bang, the phase “before the Big Bang” is as meaningless as “north of the North Pole”.

"Therefore, to those who claim that the very idea of a Big Bang violates the First Law of Thermodynamics (also known as the Law of Conservation of Energy) that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed, proponents respond that the Big Bang does not address the creation of the universe, only its evolution, and that, as the laws of science break down anyway as we approach the creation of the universe, there is no reason to believe that the First Law of Thermodynamics would apply."

( https://www.physicsoftheuniverse.com/topics_bigbang.html )

Do you know what the law of causality is? That is what I'm talking about. It's pretty simple. Compare it to someone being their own father, or creating themselves from nothing. Everything has a cause. And there had to be a first cause for everything. Science does not allow an infinite regression of causes. One cause, that was not caused by anything, started everything. It's the only explanation that makes sense.

ThatOwlWoman
03-18-2018, 06:28 PM
Do you know what the law of causality is? That is what I'm talking about. It's pretty simple. Compare it to someone being their own father, or creating themselves from nothing. Everything has a cause. And there had to be a first cause for everything. Science does not allow an infinite regression of causes. One cause, that was not caused by anything, started everything. It's the only explanation that makes sense.

Kindly name the scientific law that discusses this and if you want to provide a link (like I did, twice), that would be great too.

You seem to want to confuse science with philosophy/mythology. So let me ask you this. You state that you believe that nothing can exist without a creator. You stated that you believe that the Universe has a creator.

If your first postulate (nothing can exist without a creator) is true, then who created your creator?

ThatOwlWoman
03-18-2018, 06:29 PM
So God had no interest in human kind until 5777 years ago when Adam and Eve appeared on the scene?

Well, the "real" God didn't. Those prior gods were fake news gods.

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 06:29 PM
So God had no interest in human kind until 5777 years ago when Adam and Eve appeared on the scene?

why are you making up numbers?.....

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 06:30 PM
Excuse me, but I used a scientific fact as my proof. Nothing physical can create itself. The physical universe exists. Therefore, it was created. Simple logic.

this does not prove that God did it.....that is a matter only for faith.......

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 06:32 PM
Do you know what the law of causality is? That is what I'm talking about. It's pretty simple. Compare it to someone being their own father, or creating themselves from nothing. Everything has a cause. And there had to be a first cause for everything. Science does not allow an infinite regression of causes. One cause, that was not caused by anything, started everything. It's the only explanation that makes sense.

was it caused by immaterial beings in the vicinity of the Horsehead Nebula?.......

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 06:32 PM
this does not prove that God did it.....that is a matter only for faith.......

By definition, God would be the only one capable of creating the universe. It couldn't have created itself, so someone created it.

ThatOwlWoman
03-18-2018, 06:35 PM
By definition, God would be the only one capable of creating the universe. It couldn't have created itself, so someone created it.

Who created your god then, since nothing can exist w/o having a creator?

kudzu
03-18-2018, 06:35 PM
why are you making up numbers?.....

Nope.. don't you know what the Jewish year is?

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 06:38 PM
By definition, God would be the only one capable of creating the universe. It couldn't have created itself, so someone created it.

who you believe created it is a matter of faith......I believe it was YHWH.......someone else might believe it was a Tuna named Charlie.......neither of us can prove what we choose to believe.......

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 06:39 PM
Nope.. don't you know what the Jewish year is?

I know that atheists and Young Earthers believe the Bible sets a time line for creation......rational people, not so much......

kudzu
03-18-2018, 06:57 PM
I know that atheists and Young Earthers believe the Bible sets a time line for creation......rational people, not so much......

No.. look at the Jewish year .. Adam and Eve were created in October 5776 years ago.... or maybe it was 5777 years ago .. I lose track.

domer76
03-18-2018, 07:04 PM
By definition, God would be the only one capable of creating the universe. It couldn't have created itself, so someone created it.

By YOUR definition, bitch.

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 07:43 PM
No.. look at the Jewish year .. Adam and Eve were created in October 5776 years ago.... or maybe it was 5777 years ago .. I lose track.

idiot....

Frank Apisa
03-19-2018, 05:07 AM
And science has proven that it is impossible for something to create itself. I asked your opinion of a scientific fact, yet you refuse to answer. That tells me all I need to know. You hide behind science, but you don't really believe in it, or even understand it. Especially when it doesn't agree with you. Facts are facts. I presented one. I asked you for your opinion. You refuse to answer. In my book, that makes you a loser. Sucks to be you.

One...science has not proven that it is impossible for something to create itself.

Two...science has not proven that THE UNIVERSE has not always existed...that it "came into being."

Most ontological arguments are laughable...yours are amateurishly so. You ought not to be calling others "losers."

Frank Apisa
03-19-2018, 05:11 AM
If it wasn't created, then why does it exist? It didn't create itself.

Maybe it always existed...like that god you think always existed.

MAGA MAN
03-19-2018, 06:53 AM
...an eternal being has no beginning and therefore needs no creator.....

How can something not be created yet exist?

kudzu
03-19-2018, 07:59 AM
idiot....

I fear YOU are the idiot.. This is the Jewish year 5777 since creation.. They wrote the story from God.. Do you think they got it wrong?

Israel's official calendar is the Hebrew one. According to Jewish counting, on September 24, 2014, we entered the Year 5775, that is - the supposed 5775th year since the world was created on Saturday night, October 6, 3761 BCE.Sep 25, 2014
The Hebrew Calendar: A marvel of ancient astronomy and math ...
https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/.premium-the-secrets-of-the-hebrew-calendar-1.5304911

kudzu
03-19-2018, 08:03 AM
By definition, God would be the only one capable of creating the universe. It couldn't have created itself, so someone created it.

Israel's official calendar is the Hebrew one. According to Jewish counting, on September 24, 2014, we entered the Year 5775, that is - the supposed 5775th year since the world was created on Saturday night, October 6, 3761 BCE.Sep 25, 2014
The Hebrew Calendar: A marvel of ancient astronomy and math ...

https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/.premium-the-secrets-of-the-hebrew-calendar-1.5304911

CFM
03-19-2018, 08:06 AM
Matter did not create itself


matter is just merely what exists


It is the nature of reality


from matter life was created

recombining conditions and matter in combination after combination


life is the result of some of those combinations under the right conditions.


matter can be proven to exist


no gods or monsters have ever been proven to exist

Are you saying that under the right conditions I could take a bunch a of watch parts, put them in a ziplock bag, shake and shake, and it will become a watch?

PostmodernProphet
03-19-2018, 08:41 AM
How can something not be created yet exist?

do you understand the meaning of the word "eternal".....

PostmodernProphet
03-19-2018, 08:43 AM
Do you think they got it wrong?

obviously you and they got it wrong.......there is nothing in the Bible on which to draw that conclusion.....

PostmodernProphet
03-19-2018, 08:43 AM
Are you saying that under the right conditions I could take a bunch a of watch parts, put them in a ziplock bag, shake and shake, and it will become a watch?
or desh's brain......

MAGA MAN
03-19-2018, 09:17 AM
do you understand the meaning of the word "eternal".....

Lasting forever. But how is it created in the first place.

And since matter/ energy cannot be created or destroyed, then how was it created in the first place?

evince
03-19-2018, 09:20 AM
If it wasn't created, then why does it exist? It didn't create itself.

it is merely the nature of reality


its what exists and there was NO creation

its the nature of existence


there is no need for a creator


your theory makes GOD the nature of existence


if you can accept something that has no proof it ever existed is the nature of existence (god)


then why cant you accept that maybe it was matter that always existed?


because in your heart you believe in God

that is fine


it has been proven with science that some peoples brains are wired to believe in a higher being


that is fine


you don't have the right to insist others do the same as you


do you understand that ?

you believe because of the faith in your heart compels you to


its a FAITH not a fact


facts are different

they require proof


I believe in facts and provable things


that is fine huh


you cling to faith


I cling to facts


its as simple as that



you have no right to pretend your beliefs comport with science

they are faith not science



stop trying to pretend your religion can control science


history proves that is a disaster for mankind

kudzu
03-19-2018, 09:46 AM
so God lied to moses
obviously you and they got it wrong.......there is nothing in the Bible on which to draw that conclusion.....

So God lied to Moses ???

You have been an ardent literalist and now you dispute your primary source.

PostmodernProphet
03-19-2018, 11:17 AM
Lasting forever. But how is it created in the first place.

there is no "first place".....

PostmodernProphet
03-19-2018, 11:18 AM
so God lied to moses

So God lied to Moses ???
not at all....God is not responsible for your lies



You have been an ardent literalist

this by the way is another of your lies.......I have never been a literalist.....ardent or otherwise....

evince
03-19-2018, 11:24 AM
there is no "first place".....

correct

matter is just the nature of what exists

evince
03-19-2018, 11:24 AM
not at all....God is not responsible for your lies



this by the way is another of your lies.......I have never been a literalist.....ardent or otherwise....

he is responsible for nothing unless you can prove he exists

evince
03-19-2018, 11:25 AM
matter exists

that is provable

kudzu
03-19-2018, 11:31 AM
not at all....God is not responsible for your lies



this by the way is another of your lies.......I have never been a literalist.....ardent or otherwise....

Well I sure as hell didn't write the Pentateuch....

PostmodernProphet
03-19-2018, 11:35 AM
Well I sure as hell didn't write the Pentateuch....

or read it, apparently.....

kudzu
03-19-2018, 11:37 AM
or read it, apparently.....

I have read it many times.. Do you think the Jews got it all wrong?

Frank Apisa
03-19-2018, 11:41 AM
Jesus H. Christ.

For the people who require (for whatever reason) to suppose or blindly guess that a "GOD" is required to explain existence and "the universe"...

...go ahead and suppose it or blindly guess it. And for sure, if you are not comfortable calling it a supposition or a blind guess...disguise the fact that it is by calling it a "belief"...even a "firmly held belief" if you want.

But stop pretending that it is the result of logic or reason or science or math.

IT ISN'T.

It simply is a blind guess...which apparently makes you feel comfortable.

It might even be a CORRECT blind guess.

Yeah, you MIGHT be correct.

BUT if you value logic, reason, science and math...keep in mind that the people who suppose or blindly guess that there is no "GOD" might be correct in their supposition or guess.

evince
03-19-2018, 11:46 AM
believe whatever is in your heart

more power to you if it makes you a better person

don't expect science to back you just because its in your heart


That is why we have science and faith separate


when the Catholic Church pretended the earth was flat and killed people for not believing that it was not good for anyone huh


stay out of science

CFM
03-19-2018, 11:52 AM
believe whatever is in your heart

more power to you if it makes you a better person

don't expect science to back you just because its in your heart


That is why we have science and faith separate


when the Catholic Church pretended the earth was flat and killed people for not believing that it was not good for anyone huh


stay out of science

Faith and science can't be separated. Unless you conducted the research yourself, you have to take on faith what those doing it say about it.

evince
03-19-2018, 12:03 PM
matter exists idiot

kudzu
03-19-2018, 12:24 PM
Faith and science can't be separated. Unless you conducted the research yourself, you have to take on faith what those doing it say about it.

You don't have much education, do you?

CFM
03-19-2018, 12:27 PM
You don't have much education, do you?

Far more than you will ever have, cunt.

kudzu
03-19-2018, 12:28 PM
Far more than you will ever have, cunt.

Fraid not. Have you read What Price Israel?

CFM
03-19-2018, 12:30 PM
Fraid not. Have you read What Price Israel?

That's a matter of opinion and your opinion doesn't amount to shit in a nigger's back yard.

I'm only guessing but I suspect you may have at least one, if not more, ragheads in your family line. Maybe you married one. Maybe your grandkids are part raghead.

kudzu
03-19-2018, 12:36 PM
That's a matter of opinion and your opinion doesn't amount to shit in a nigger's back yard.

I'm only guessing but I suspect you may have at least one, if not more, ragheads in your family line. Maybe you married one. Maybe your grandkids are part raghead.

Nope.. We are all WASPS...

CFM
03-19-2018, 12:37 PM
Nope.. We are all WASPS...

In your case, white trash in the same low class as Obama's NL mother.

Leonthecat
03-19-2018, 12:39 PM
In your case, white trash in the same low class as Obama's NL mother.

This is the coward who claims he is not a racist.
LOL

CFM
03-19-2018, 12:42 PM
This is the coward who claims he is not a racist.
LOL

Yet you've shown no proof of your claim that I am.

kudzu
03-19-2018, 12:44 PM
In your case, white trash in the same low class as Obama's NL mother.


Nope.. My family has been in the US since NYC was New Amsterdam.. and have distinguished themselves in every war.. Then there are the land grants..

kudzu
03-19-2018, 12:45 PM
Yet you've shown no proof of your claim that I am.

You have proven your lack of breeding, class and education in one post after another.

CFM
03-19-2018, 12:46 PM
Nope.. My family has been in the US since NYC was New Amsterdam.. and have distinguished themselves in every war.. Then there are the land grants..

It's a shame more of them didn't die in every war and eliminate the family line.

Still white trash.

kudzu
03-19-2018, 12:47 PM
It's a shame more of them didn't die in every war and eliminate the family line.

Still white trash.

You wrote this..

Quote Originally Posted by CFM View Post
Don't ever challenge a nigger on an IQ test. You'd lose and they're the dumbest around.

CFM
03-19-2018, 12:47 PM
You have proven your lack of breeding, class and education in one post after another.

That is your opinion and you've been informed the value of your opinions.

You've proven your inbreeding one post after another. If you daddy your uncle or the other way around?

CFM
03-19-2018, 12:48 PM
You wrote this..

Quote Originally Posted by CFM View Post
Don't ever challenge a nigger on an IQ test. You'd lose and they're the dumbest around.

I'm going by the average IQ.

Leonthecat
03-19-2018, 12:51 PM
You wrote this..

Quote Originally Posted by CFM View Post
Don't ever challenge a nigger on an IQ test. You'd lose and they're the dumbest around.

The racist coward CFM is a joke. He is not even man enough to declare his convictions. Other real racists like Praisekek would spit on him.

kudzu
03-19-2018, 12:54 PM
The racist coward CFM is a joke. He is not even man enough to declare his convictions. Other real racists like Praisekek would spit on him.

I agree.. He's a real low life.

PostmodernProphet
03-19-2018, 02:16 PM
I have read it many times.. Do you think the Jews got it all wrong?

only the ones who agree with you about a 6000 year old earth.......

PostmodernProphet
03-19-2018, 02:18 PM
Fraid not. Have you read What Price Israel?

does it do a good job of explaining creation to atheists?......

kudzu
03-19-2018, 02:26 PM
does it do a good job of explaining creation to atheists?......


Actually no..

Moses wrote the pentateuch..

evince
03-19-2018, 02:32 PM
The racist coward CFM is a joke. He is not even man enough to declare his convictions. Other real racists like Praisekek would spit on him.

even racists hate racists

PostmodernProphet
03-19-2018, 02:34 PM
Actually no..

Moses wrote the pentateuch..

is What Price Israel in Deuteronomy or Leviticus?.......

kudzu
03-19-2018, 05:04 PM
only the ones who agree with you about a 6000 year old earth.......

Why do you think this is the year 5777 on the Jewish calendar? They count from October 6th when God created the world.

PostmodernProphet
03-19-2018, 05:05 PM
Why do you think this is the year 5777 on the Jewish calendar?

possibly its someone who thinks like you?.....

kudzu
03-19-2018, 05:07 PM
possibly its someone who thinks like you?.....

The Hebrews wrote the book that Christians believe..

Leonthecat
03-20-2018, 10:22 AM
even racists hate racists

Hatred is their lifesblood.

PostmodernProphet
03-20-2018, 12:32 PM
once you eliminate the impossible, BucKKKle disappears......

evince
03-20-2018, 12:33 PM
its impossible for you to have more than ten brain cells

CFM
03-20-2018, 02:52 PM
The racist coward CFM is a joke. He is not even man enough to declare his convictions. Other real racists like Praisekek would spit on him.

I've already done it long ago. Not my fault you're too stupid to find it.

CFM
03-20-2018, 02:52 PM
its impossible for you to have more than ten brain cells

It is impossible for you to count to ten.

Leonthecat
03-20-2018, 02:58 PM
I've already done it long ago. Not my fault you're too stupid to find it.

Lying racist.

CFM
03-20-2018, 03:02 PM
Lying racist.

Stupid nigger.

Leonthecat
03-20-2018, 03:03 PM
Stupid nigger.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oxRmGXbquXKz6DNPq/giphy.gif

CFM
03-20-2018, 03:07 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/3oxRmGXbquXKz6DNPq/giphy.gif

No, just realistic about what you are.

On an educational side note, perhaps the reason so many blacks can't speak properly is that black celebrities destroy the language. For the uneducated, it's not "YOU crazy", it's "YOU'RE crazy".

christiefan915
03-20-2018, 04:55 PM
You've probably seen this quote.

"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

<snip>


You're using a quote from Sherlock Holmes as proof? :rofl2:

Mason Michaels
03-20-2018, 06:35 PM
Matter did not create itself


matter is just merely what exists


It is the nature of reality


from matter life was created

recombining conditions and matter in combination after combination


life is the result of some of those combinations under the right conditions.


matter can be proven to exist


no gods or monsters have ever been proven to exist

Matter is the byproduct of Satan's attempt to over throw YHWH.

hypGnosis
03-21-2018, 12:24 PM
You've probably seen this quote.

"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

Let'a apply this quote to the Creation/Evolution debate.

First, we'll look at the impossible.

It is impossible for something physical to created itself. This is a scientific fact. It is the law of causality. In fact, it is the foundation of all modern science.

In spite of this scientific evidence, atheists actually believe that the universe just popped into existence all by itself. This belief violates the most fundamental law of science, yet they believe it anyway.

Now that I have proven that the universe could not have created itself, what does that leave us with? You guessed it. The universe was created. Simple logic. Backed by science. End of discussion.
You make some rather interesting assertions there.

I wonder how to proceed with "First, we'll look at the impossible."? Is it possible to examine the "impossible"? At what point does one accept that everything that is impossible has been eliminated?

I'm familiar with the "Law of Causality", but wouldn't you agree that the Scientific Method is the foundation of all modern science?

I am an atheist and I do not believe "...that the universe just popped into existence all by itself."

Please share with me and the other readers the "simple logic" supported by science that results in our Universe having been created, 'k?

The Ugly Truth
03-21-2018, 12:25 PM
You're using a quote from Sherlock Holmes as proof? :rofl2:

Doesn't matter who said it. It's the truth. It is impossible for something to create itself. That has to mean it had a Creator. If you see a painting, it's because someone painted it. If you watch a movie, someone created that. The law of causality has no exceptions. Everything requires a cause for it's existence. That's a scientific fact. Why should the universe be any different?

The Ugly Truth
03-21-2018, 12:27 PM
You make some rather interesting assertions there.

I wonder how to proceed with "First, we'll look at the impossible."? Is it possible to examine the "impossible"? At what point does one accept that everything that is impossible has been eliminated?

I'm familiar with the "Law of Causality", but wouldn't you agree that the Scientific Method is the foundation of all modern science?

I am an atheist and I do not believe "...that the universe just popped into existence all by itself."

Please share with me and the other readers the "simple logic" supported by science that results in our Universe having been created, 'k?
It's a simple process of elimination. It couldn't create itself, so someone had to have created it.

Frank Apisa
03-21-2018, 12:34 PM
Doesn't matter who said it. It's the truth. It is impossible for something to create itself. That has to mean it had a Creator. If you see a painting, it's because someone painted it. If you watch a movie, someone created that. The law of causality has no exceptions. Everything requires a cause for it's existence. That's a scientific fact. Why should the universe be any different?

Everything?

So...the god who supposedly "created" this thing we humans call "the universe"...does not exist?

Or did you not mean "everything?"

Frank Apisa
03-21-2018, 12:35 PM
It's a simple process of elimination. It couldn't create itself, so someone had to have created it.

You go right back to that question that stumped you earlier.

Who created the thing that created the universe?

The Ugly Truth
03-21-2018, 01:08 PM
You go right back to that question that stumped you earlier.

Who created the thing that created the universe?

How many times do I have to say this? No one created God. He has always existed. He is the uncaused cause of everything. Everything that has a physical existence was caused to exist.

kudzu
03-21-2018, 01:18 PM
How many times do I have to say this? No one created God. He has always existed. He is the uncaused cause of everything. Everything that has a physical existence was caused to exist.

Dilmun existed a thousand years before Adam and Eve.... so did Moses get it wrong?

hypGnosis
03-21-2018, 01:22 PM
Doesn't matter who said it. It's the truth. It is impossible for something to create itself. That has to mean it had a Creator. If you see a painting, it's because someone painted it. If you watch a movie, someone created that. The law of causality has no exceptions. Everything requires a cause for it's existence. That's a scientific fact. Why should the universe be any different?

Wait a minute ... wait a minute ... stop the presses!!!

Aren't you, The Ugly Truth, a proponent of the First Cause?

Don't you experience a tinch of cognitive dissonance when you assert "Everything requires a cause for it's existence" and also assert that a First Cause exists (or used to exist)?

Frank Apisa
03-21-2018, 01:55 PM
How many times do I have to say this? No one created God. He has always existed. He is the uncaused cause of everything. Everything that has a physical existence was caused to exist.

YOU WROTE:


Doesn't matter who said it. It's the truth. It is impossible for something to create itself. That has to mean it had a Creator. If you see a painting, it's because someone painted it. If you watch a movie, someone created that. The law of causality has no exceptions. Everything requires a cause for it's existence. That's a scientific fact. Why should the universe be any different?

Are you now saying you did not mean that?

The Ugly Truth
03-21-2018, 01:58 PM
Wait a minute ... wait a minute ... stop the presses!!!

Aren't you, The Ugly Truth, a proponent of the First Cause?

Don't you experience a tinch of cognitive dissonance when you assert "Everything requires a cause for it's existence" and also assert that a First Cause exists (or used to exist)?

Everything that has a physical existence requires a cause. God is not physical. The laws of physics do not apply to Him. He created them, after all. Understand now?

kudzu
03-21-2018, 02:00 PM
Everything that has a physical existence requires a cause. God is not physical. The laws of physics do not apply to Him. He created them, after all. Understand now?

So why did God stop with the supernatural events like worldwide floods and burning bushes?

Frank Apisa
03-21-2018, 02:05 PM
How many times do I have to say this? No one created God. He has always existed. He is the uncaused cause of everything. Everything that has a physical existence was caused to exist.

Here's the problem, Ugly.

Instead of doing things the scientific way...

...you are starting with where you want to end up...

...and then retrofitting your argument to accommodate that "end."

You are starting with an assertion...namely, that a "creator god" HAS TO exist.

Stop that.

It is not scientific, it is not reasonable, it is not logical, it is not mathematically correct.

The ultimate question is: Is there a GOD?

To arrive there, one must first tackle the question: "Is it possible for humans to determine if any gods exist?"

I can think of no way to do that using logic, reason, science, or math. To me it seems the only thing we can do...is to make a guess. (We can call our guess a "belief" if we feel uncomfortable with acknowledging that it is a guess.)

Ontological arguments are poor attempts at dealing with the question...and yours is especially deficient.

But...no telling.

Let's discuss: Can we determine if any gods exist?

Frank Apisa
03-21-2018, 02:06 PM
Everything that has a physical existence requires a cause. God is not physical. The laws of physics do not apply to Him. He created them, after all. Understand now?

Those are all untested assertions.

Understand now?

The Ugly Truth
03-21-2018, 02:21 PM
Those are all untested assertions.

Understand now?

In that case, you should have no problem giving us an example of something creating itself.

evince
03-21-2018, 02:23 PM
no one has claimed something created its self


why do you keep lying about that ?

evince
03-21-2018, 02:27 PM
Everything that has a physical existence requires a cause. God is not physical. The laws of physics do not apply to Him. He created them, after all. Understand now?

if god is energy of any kind who created that energy?

Frank Apisa
03-21-2018, 02:31 PM
In that case, you should have no problem giving us an example of something creating itself.

Why do that?


You've already acknowledge that there is AT LEAST ONE thing that was never created.

Perhaps this thing we humans call "the universe" was never created...but instead, always existed.

The notion that IT was created is just an unsupported assertion on your part.

The Ugly Truth
03-21-2018, 02:31 PM
if god is energy of any kind who created that energy?

I took you off my ignore list, just to see if you finally had something intelligent to say. Don't know why I bothered. Back on the ignore list you go. LOL!

Frank Apisa
03-21-2018, 02:32 PM
if god is energy of any kind who created that energy?

This thing we humans call "the universe"...may be nothing more than energy also.

Ugly simply is not able to get that...or to acknowledge it.

He wants that intermediate step...the middle man...the god he wants so much to show "exists."

evince
03-21-2018, 02:33 PM
I took you off my ignore list, just to see if you finally had something intelligent to say. Don't know why I bothered. Back on the ignore list you go. LOL!

how jesusy of you

even when you don't answer me others see my posts that prove you have no logic behind your slobberings

The Ugly Truth
03-21-2018, 02:36 PM
Why do that?


You've already acknowledge that there is AT LEAST ONE thing that was never created.

Perhaps this thing we humans call "the universe" was never created...but instead, always existed.

The notion that IT was created is just an unsupported assertion on your part.

If the universe had no Creator, then why does it exist? You say you believe in science. Science gave us the law of cause and effect. Are you saying they got it wrong? And the universe could not have always existed, because of the law of entropy. If the universe was eternal, there would be no energy left. The universe had a beginning. It was created. No other explanation makes any sense.

evince
03-21-2018, 02:38 PM
This thing we humans call "the universe"...may be nothing more than energy also.

Ugly simply is not able to get that...or to acknowledge it.

He wants that intermediate step...the middle man...the god he wants so much to show "exists."



that is fine with me



if it makes him a better person than fine


the rub begins when he gets MAD at others for not sharing his factless ideas


there is a reason it has been labeled Faith


it is not fact based


its in his/her heart and head


so he/she rails at us for not being wired to be soothed by the same ideas as him/her.


railing at us for NOT being just like him/her.



pretty unjesusy


many of these so called religious people seem to leave the love and caring Jesus displayed behind without a thought.


they need to go back and read just Jesus' words for a year or two so they can understand what it is they supposedly believe

evince
03-21-2018, 02:40 PM
I took you off my ignore list, just to see if you finally had something intelligent to say. Don't know why I bothered. Back on the ignore list you go. LOL!

closed minds never find open doors

Frank Apisa
03-21-2018, 02:53 PM
If the universe had no Creator, then why does it exist?

Maybe because it always existed. I do not know. Neither do you. The difference between us is that I am willing to acknowledge that I do not know...you are not.



You say you believe in science.

You have NEVER heard me say "I 'believe' in science."

EVER!




Science gave us the law of cause and effect. Are you saying they got it wrong?

I am saying scientists do not know if this thing we call "the universe" IS THE UNIVERSE. And they do not know if it always existed...or not.

And since a majority of scientists are atheists or agnostics...if it were as easy as you seem to think it is...they would not be atheists and agnostics.




And the universe could not have always existed, because of the law of entropy.

Stop trying to sound smart. You don't pull it off.

If the question were as easy to answer as you seem to think it is...MOST scientists would not be atheists or agnostics.

But of course, you may think you ARE smarter than people like Albert Einstein or Stephen Hawking.



If the universe was eternal, there would be no energy left. The universe had a beginning. It was created. No other explanation makes any sense.

Not if you have a closed mine. But not everyone is like you.

I spoke to Albert about this once. Here I am explaining the very thing we are talking about:

6173

evince
03-21-2018, 02:54 PM
everything you touch was mere matter in space at one time

In fact it still is


it has always existed

The Ugly Truth
03-21-2018, 05:54 PM
OK. I'll say this one more time. It is impossible for something physical to create itself. It's a scientific fact. Every piece of observable data confirms it. It's also just plain common sense. Since the universe cannot create itself, that can only mean that it was created by Someone who is not physical. Why do you deny the obvious?

domer76
03-21-2018, 05:59 PM
Everything that has a physical existence requires a cause. God is not physical. The laws of physics do not apply to Him. He created them, after all. Understand now?

“The Bible is the word of God"
"How can you be sure it's the word of God?"
"Because the Bible tells us so"
"Why believe the Bible?
"The Bible is infallible"
"How do you know it's infallible?"...

(Return to top)

Frank Apisa
03-22-2018, 04:35 AM
OK. I'll say this one more time. It is impossible for something physical to create itself. It's a scientific fact. Every piece of observable data confirms it. It's also just plain common sense. Since the universe cannot create itself, that can only mean that it was created by Someone who is not physical. Why do you deny the obvious?

IT IS NOT OBVIOUS THAT THE UNIVERSE WAS CREATED...WHICH WOULD DEMAND A CREATOR.

If it were, Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, Richard Feynman...would all have realized that. YOU are not smarter than they. And they...Nobelists all...were either atheists or agnostics.

You are all wet in this argument. Yours is a particularly defective ontological argument...in a host of defective ontological arguments.

ThatOwlWoman
03-22-2018, 05:19 AM
OK. I'll say this one more time. It is impossible for something physical to create itself. It's a scientific fact. Every piece of observable data confirms it. It's also just plain common sense. Since the universe cannot create itself, that can only mean that it was created by Someone who is not physical. Why do you deny the obvious?

Who created god?

PostmodernProphet
03-22-2018, 05:38 AM
If it were, Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, Richard Feynman...would all have realized that. YOU are not smarter than they. And they...Nobelists all...were either atheists or agnostics.

perhaps Einstein's beliefs were just too subtle for you......
https://todayinsci.com/E/Einstein_Albert/EinsteinAlbert-Subtle500px.jpg

Frank Apisa
03-22-2018, 05:51 AM
perhaps Einstein's beliefs were just too subtle for you......
https://todayinsci.com/E/Einstein_Albert/EinsteinAlbert-Subtle500px.jpg

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
-- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press



“My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment.”
Albert Einstein in a letter to M. Berkowitz, October 25, 1950; Einstein Archive 59-215; from Alice Calaprice, ed., The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 2000, p. 216.


Perhaps the subtlety is too much for you, PP.

kudzu
03-22-2018, 06:14 AM
“The Bible is the word of God"
"How can you be sure it's the word of God?"
"Because the Bible tells us so"
"Why believe the Bible?
"The Bible is infallible"
"How do you know it's infallible?"...

(Return to top)

Circular reasoning forever.

I don't think Christians anywhere else in the world take the Bible as history and science.

PostmodernProphet
03-22-2018, 06:50 AM
It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
-- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press



yet he did believe in a creator........take your tiresome lies where they will be believed......

PostmodernProphet
03-22-2018, 06:51 AM
Circular reasoning forever.



domer has only one argument.....he uses it regardless of relevance.....

Frank Apisa
03-22-2018, 06:53 AM
yet he did believe in a creator........take your tiresome lies where they will be believed......

There is absolutely NOTHING in that quote that says Einstein "believed in a creator."

I doubt you will be able to concede this...but after all...you are you.

Frank Apisa
03-22-2018, 06:54 AM
domer has only one argument.....he uses it regardless of relevance.....

It is an important one. He shows the absurdity of some theistic thinking (if one can call it that.).

kudzu
03-22-2018, 06:54 AM
domer has only one argument.....he uses it regardless of relevance.....

The clay tablets found at Ras Shamra and Dilmun are 1000 years older than Genesis. Did God lie to Moses?

ThatOwlWoman
03-22-2018, 06:55 AM
I'm still hoping to find out who created god. No takers?

Frank Apisa
03-22-2018, 06:58 AM
I'm still hoping to find out who created god. No takers?

All he's gonna do is jump up and down and say, "Nobody created god...because god always existed."

And he is going to pretend that is a SCIENTIFIC conclusion.

Jeez!

ThatOwlWoman
03-22-2018, 07:00 AM
All he's gonna do is jump up and down and say, "Nobody created god...because god always existed."

And he is going to pretend that is a SCIENTIFIC conclusion.

Jeez!

But he claims nothing can exist without a creator.

Meh. I'm gonna go re-read A Brief History of Time. Be back later.

PostmodernProphet
03-22-2018, 07:00 AM
There is absolutely NOTHING in that quote that says Einstein "believed in a creator."

you are absolutely right of course......doesn't change anything obviously......please fuck yourself, rinse and repeat.......in the future you should confine your posts to the relevant.......

PostmodernProphet
03-22-2018, 07:01 AM
It is an important one. He shows the absurdity of some theistic thinking (if one can call it that.).

no.....he's an idiot.......nothing further to see in his posts.....

PostmodernProphet
03-22-2018, 07:02 AM
The clay tablets found at Ras Shamra and Dilmun are 1000 years older than Genesis. Did God lie to Moses?

no, but you are lying about God and Moses......next question......

PostmodernProphet
03-22-2018, 07:04 AM
All he's gonna do is jump up and down and say, "Nobody created god...because god always existed."

And he is going to pretend that is a SCIENTIFIC conclusion.

Jeez!

only if linguistics is a science........God is defined in the Christian religion as a being with no beginning and no end......does it surprise you we are not shaken by an argument that God must have a beginning......apparently YOU think that is a scientific conclusion (a great source of amusement to the rest of us).......

kudzu
03-22-2018, 07:06 AM
no, but you are lying about God and Moses......next question......

Why are you dodging the question? Did God lie to Moses?

PostmodernProphet
03-22-2018, 07:08 AM
Why are you dodging the question? Did God lie to Moses?

I thought the answer would be obvious when I started out with the word "no".......did you find that too complicated?.....

Frank Apisa
03-22-2018, 07:36 AM
you are absolutely right of course......doesn't change anything obviously......please fuck yourself, rinse and repeat.......in the future you should confine your posts to the relevant.......

Glad you are showing your lack of class, PP.

http://bowtiesgreetingcards.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/you-know-you-have-no-class.png

Frank Apisa
03-22-2018, 07:36 AM
no.....he's an idiot.......nothing further to see in his posts.....

http://bowtiesgreetingcards.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/you-know-you-have-no-class.png

Frank Apisa
03-22-2018, 07:38 AM
only if linguistics is a science........God is defined in the Christian religion as a being with no beginning and no end......does it surprise you we are not shaken by an argument that God must have a beginning......apparently YOU think that is a scientific conclusion (a great source of amusement to the rest of us).......

If you god can be something without a "beginning"...why can THE UNIVERSE not be something without a beginning?

Talk about amusement...listening to theists on the Internet spouting their nonsense is hilarious.

kudzu
03-22-2018, 07:47 AM
I thought the answer would be obvious when I started out with the word "no".......did you find that too complicated?.....

Using your Sherlock Holmes quote, how could Genesis be the first when the cuneiform tablets at Ras Shamra and Dilmun are far older?

Frank Apisa
03-22-2018, 07:51 AM
Using your Sherlock Holmes quote, how could Genesis be the first when the cuneiform tablets at Ras Shamra and Dilmun are far older?

No fair. Now you are asking him to think!

kudzu
03-22-2018, 07:55 AM
No fair. Now you are asking him to think!

Fundamentalists and literalists do a lot of damage .. and drive people away from faith in God.

Frank Apisa
03-22-2018, 08:01 AM
Fundamentalists and literalists do a lot of damage .. and drive people away from faith in God.

I gotta say that I have many friends and relatives who are "people of faith"...which is to say they suppose there is a GOD...and use that GOD as a source to set a moral compass.

I have no problem with them at all. Most are decent people who are living life as best they can...and most can be counted on when a friend is needed. Same thing goes for the atheists and agnostic friends I have.

But there is something about the Internet that brings out qualities in so-called Christians...that seem to spit in the face of most of the teachings of Jesus. Don't know why that is...but, yeah...there are people who call themselves Christians who do more damage to Christianity than anything non-Christians do in that regard.

kudzu
03-22-2018, 08:04 AM
I gotta say that I have many friends and relatives who are "people of faith"...which is to say they suppose there is a GOD...and use that GOD as a source to set a moral compass.

I have no problem with them at all. Most are decent people who are living life as best they can...and most can be counted on when a friend is needed. Same thing goes for the atheists and agnostic friends I have.

But there is something about the Internet that brings out qualities in so-called Christians...that seem to spit in the face of most of the teachings of Jesus. Don't know why that is...but, yeah...there are people who call themselves Christians who do more damage to Christianity than anything non-Christians do in that regard.

I share your experience..

The Conditt boy.. the bomber from San Antonio was raised in a devout Christian home with big doses of Hannity and Fox News.

Fanatics have a lot in common.

PostmodernProphet
03-22-2018, 09:46 AM
If you god can be something without a "beginning"...why can THE UNIVERSE not be something without a beginning?


because the universe is a material thing and must comply with the laws of science regarding material things......

PostmodernProphet
03-22-2018, 09:47 AM
Using your Sherlock Holmes quote, how could Genesis be the first when the cuneiform tablets at Ras Shamra and Dilmun are far older?

you are confusing the date Genesis was put into written form with the subject matter of Genesis......creation did not happen after clay tablets were invented.......

PostmodernProphet
03-22-2018, 09:49 AM
Fundamentalists and literalists do a lot of damage .. and drive people away from faith in God.

/shrugs......atheists are for more literalist than most who believe in God......atheists do no damage to anyone other than themselves........

Frank Apisa
03-22-2018, 09:54 AM
because the universe is a material thing and must comply with the laws of science regarding material things......

You are sure about that, right?

There are scientists who disagree. They think everything in this thing we humans call "the universe" is just energy...a type of energy we don't even understand yet.

Molecules are composed of atoms; atoms are composed of sub atomic particles...and what then? Where does it end? What particles can we be sure cannot be halved?

There appears to be nothing actually here. Even Albert Einstein mentioned that reality is an illusion, albeit, a persistent illusion.

And what on Earth makes you suppose we humans have answered all the questions regarding what can or cannot be?

The "science" of today...1000 years from now...will probably be looked at the way we look at the "science" of 1000 years ago.

PostmodernProphet
03-22-2018, 10:00 AM
You are sure about that, right?

yes......unlike you I don't have to resort to mere beliefs......I have science at my back.....


There appears to be nothing actually here. Even Albert Einstein mentioned that reality is an illusion, albeit, a persistent illusion.


sorry, I don't agree with that mystic crap you believe.....I think it is better to speak of how science describes the way the human eye picks up light waves.....


The "science" of today...1000 years from now...will probably be looked at the way we look at the "science" of 1000 years ago.
I expect the scientists of 1000 years ago will find you just as amusing as scientists today......

PostmodernProphet
03-22-2018, 10:01 AM
oh that's right......you don't believe you believe do you.....

kudzu
03-22-2018, 10:04 AM
/shrugs......atheists are for more literalist than most who believe in God......atheists do no damage to anyone other than themselves........

What part of Genesis do you NOT take literally?

kudzu
03-22-2018, 10:05 AM
You are sure about that, right?

There are scientists who disagree. They think everything in this thing we humans call "the universe" is just energy...a type of energy we don't even understand yet.

Molecules are composed of atoms; atoms are composed of sub atomic particles...and what then? Where does it end? What particles can we be sure cannot be halved?

There appears to be nothing actually here. Even Albert Einstein mentioned that reality is an illusion, albeit, a persistent illusion.

And what on Earth makes you suppose we humans have answered all the questions regarding what can or cannot be?

The "science" of today...1000 years from now...will probably be looked at the way we look at the "science" of 1000 years ago.

The Bible was written for Bronze Age people..

Frank Apisa
03-22-2018, 10:06 AM
yes......unlike you I don't have to resort to mere beliefs......I have science at my back.....

Oh, the irony. You are all about "beliefs"...a word you use to pretend the blind guesses you make are not really blind guesses.



sorry, I don't agree with that mystic crap you believe.....I think it is better to speak of how science describes the way the human eye picks up light waves.....

You must have me mistaken for someone who gives a rat's ass what you agree with.

I do not do "believing." You do...that is why that first sentence is so ironic.



I expect the scientists of 1000 years ago will find you just as amusing as scientists today......

You are reaching...and making an ass of yourself by doing so.

Get yourself under control. You've only just begun to feel the heat.

Frank Apisa
03-22-2018, 10:06 AM
oh that's right......you don't believe you believe do you.....

I don't do "believing."

If you have a problem with that...tough.

Frank Apisa
03-22-2018, 10:08 AM
The Bible was written for Bronze Age people..

MY GUESS: Even some Bronze Age people thought it to be too fanciful; even some Bronze Age people took it to be mythology.

kudzu
03-22-2018, 10:13 AM
MY GUESS: Even some Bronze Age people thought it to be too fanciful; even some Bronze Age people took it to be mythology.

The Jewish sages KNEW it was didactic literature.. Rambam said that if science disputes scripture , science prevails.

The Ugly Truth
03-22-2018, 10:43 AM
Let's get back on topic. Is it possible for something physical to create itself? Does anyone believe this is possible? Science says it's impossible, yet they deny a Creator. There are only two options here. The universe created itself, or someone created it. The first one has been ruled out by science.

The Ugly Truth
03-22-2018, 10:47 AM
I find it interesting, how willing and eager atheists are to prove that God doesn't exist. It's almost like they are personally offended by the mere possibility of His existence.

kudzu
03-22-2018, 10:51 AM
I find it interesting, how willing and eager atheists are to prove that God doesn't exist. It's almost like they are personally offended by the mere possibility of His existence.

What part of Genesis do you NOT take literally?

The Ugly Truth
03-22-2018, 10:54 AM
What part of Genesis do you NOT take literally?

Another pathetic attempt at deflection. We're discussing the origin of the physical universe. Science says that something physical cannot create itself. That means it was created. Can you refute this?

evince
03-22-2018, 10:57 AM
you keep repeating that stupid lie

WHY???

kudzu
03-22-2018, 10:58 AM
Another pathetic attempt at deflection. We're discussing the origin of the physical universe. Science says that something physical cannot create itself. That means it was created. Can you refute this?

Do you believe God created the world as described in Genesis?

The Ugly Truth
03-22-2018, 10:59 AM
Do you believe God created the world as described in Genesis?

Do you believe that the universe created itself?

Frank Apisa
03-22-2018, 11:00 AM
Let's get back on topic. Is it possible for something physical to create itself? Does anyone believe this is possible? Science says it's impossible, yet they deny a Creator. There are only two options here. The universe created itself, or someone created it. The first one has been ruled out by science.

Your question only makes sense...IF THE UNIVERSE WAS CREATED.

YOU do not know if it was created or not. Neither does any scientist who has ever lived on this planet.

This thing that we humans refer to as "the universe" appears to be the result of a Big Bang event...but no scientist knows what existed before the Big Bang...and no scientist knows if THE UNIVERSE is only the thing we humans refer to as "the universe."

Stop the crap, Ugly.

IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THE UNIVERSE ALWAYS EXISTED...THAT IT DID NOT HAVE A BEGINNING...AND WILL NOT HAVE AN END.

You want to insist that it was "created" so that you can interject a "creator" (which I am sure will be that god of yours).

BUT IT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN CREATED.

IT MAY ALWAYS HAVE BEEN.

evince
03-22-2018, 11:00 AM
Another pathetic attempt at deflection. We're discussing the origin of the physical universe. Science says that something physical cannot create itself. That means it was created. Can you refute this?

NO ONE CLAIMS MATTER CREATED ITS SELF


you keep repeating this evil lie


it proves you are evil


and it shames your religion


how is being a liar following Jesus

Frank Apisa
03-22-2018, 11:01 AM
I find it interesting, how willing and eager atheists are to prove that God doesn't exist. It's almost like they are personally offended by the mere possibility of His existence.

I haven't seen anyone here attempt to prove "God" doesn't exist.

Where do you get this crap from?

evince
03-22-2018, 11:02 AM
he is a fake Christian here to shame the religion he claims to defend