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Boris The Animal
03-17-2018, 10:32 PM
In these fora, I see misconceptions all the time about what makes a "good" Christian. Leftists/Liberals like to equate government welfare largess as fulfilling the idea of "feeding the poor", etc. rather than doing it out of their OWN resources, as it should be. But I submit the BIBLICAL definition of a Christian, as outlined throughout Scripture, is acknowledging there is absolutely zero good in mankind. Romans Chapter 3:9-20 talks about the unrighteousness of man, and that no good can ever earn him Heaven, nor a relationship with God. "What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. As it is written:

'There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.'" (NIV)

So basically, in God's economy because of our sin, we have zero chance at attaining Heaven, even though we might seem "good" or "moral", it is still not enough!
So what EXACTLY is the solution? The Cross! Christ's death on the cross is God's way to establish the relationship between Himself and mankind. This was the full payment for the penalty of our sins; past, present, and future. "As far as the East is from the West, I will remember your sins no more", says the Lord of Hosts. Does this give us license to sin? No, but God's forgiveness does give us true freedom in Him. This is the right definition of a Christian. The works we do come as a result of our salvation and the purpose is to bring others to the Cross.

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 06:03 AM
If I recall correctly it has something to do with this....

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

if you disagree with any of the above you belong to some religion that is NOT Christian......

iolo
03-18-2018, 06:35 AM
In these fora, I see misconceptions all the time about what makes a "good" Christian. Leftists/Liberals like to equate government welfare largess as fulfilling the idea of "feeding the poor", etc. rather than doing it out of their OWN resources, as it should be. But I submit the BIBLICAL definition of a Christian, as outlined throughout Scripture, is acknowledging there is absolutely zero good in mankind. Romans Chapter 3:9-20 talks about the unrighteousness of man, and that no good can ever earn him Heaven, nor a relationship with God. "What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. As it is written:

'There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.'" (NIV)

So basically, in God's economy because of our sin, we have zero chance at attaining Heaven, even though we might seem "good" or "moral", it is still not enough!
So what EXACTLY is the solution? The Cross! Christ's death on the cross is God's way to establish the relationship between Himself and mankind. This was the full payment for the penalty of our sins; past, present, and future. "As far as the East is from the West, I will remember your sins no more", says the Lord of Hosts. Does this give us license to sin? No, but God's forgiveness does give us true freedom in Him. This is the right definition of a Christian. The works we do come as a result of our salvation and the purpose is to bring others to the Cross. Basically, Christians reject capitalism and all other exploitive systems and, as Jesus recommended, share and share alike as the mighty are put down from their seats. Clearly the whole concept is hugely foreign to the USA, where Christianity was never practiced.

Boris The Animal
03-18-2018, 07:15 AM
Basically, Christians reject capitalism and all other exploitive systems and, as Jesus recommended, share and share alike as the mighty are put down from their seats. Clearly the whole concept is hugely foreign to the USA, where Christianity was never practiced.

No, that's where you are wrong. Jesus certainly NEVER condemned wealth, nor the LEGAL acquisition thereof. Remember Joseph of Aramethea and Nicodemus? They both were well-to-do in their time and yet Christ never commanded them to "share the wealth" What you are insinuating that Christians should also be Communists AKA Liberation Theology, which is false and unbiblical doctrine. He is more concerned with the status of our hearts than any outward actions. Being rich and a disciple of Christ simply means that God has blessed him with much, and as such, has a greater responsibility of good stewardship.

Boris The Animal
03-18-2018, 07:16 AM
If I recall correctly it has something to do with this....


if you disagree with any of the above you belong to some religion that is NOT Christian......

The Nicene Creed. Lines up with Scripture.

iolo
03-18-2018, 07:22 AM
No, that's where you are wrong. Jesus certainly NEVER condemned wealth, nor the LEGAL acquisition thereof. Remember Joseph of Aramethea and Nicodemus? They both were well-to-do in their time and yet Christ never commanded them to "share the wealth" What you are insinuating that Christians should also be Communists AKA Liberation Theology, which is false and unbiblical doctrine. He is more concerned with the status of our hearts than any outward actions. Being rich and a disciple of Christ simply means that God has blessed him with much, and as such, has a greater responsibility of good stewardship. Since Jesus believed in Hell, there had to be people to go there, namely the rich. Read the parable of Dives and Lazarus, what Jesus said to the rich young man, what they did about property in the early Church, etc, etc, etc. I'd say Jesus thought you'd be better to find the evil of the day sufficient, without building up hugely more, like Trump and the rest of you Mammon-worshippers. When you can spare time from robbing one another, read the New Testament.

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 07:33 AM
The Nicene Creed. Lines up with Scripture.

not much difference.....our denomination tends away from it because of its emphasis on an "apostolic" Church......

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 07:34 AM
Since Jesus believed in Hell, there had to be people to go there, namely the rich.

do you believe its possible for a poor man to go to hell?.......

Minister of Truth
03-18-2018, 07:56 AM
Basically, Christians reject capitalism and all other exploitive systems and, as Jesus recommended, share and share alike as the mighty are put down from their seats. Clearly the whole concept is hugely foreign to the USA, where Christianity was never practiced.

Christians also reject socialism, because they aren't overly fond of state-sponsored mass murder.

Minister of Truth
03-18-2018, 07:57 AM
If I recall correctly it has something to do with this....


if you disagree with any of the above you belong to some religion that is NOT Christian......

I usually see the Apostle's Creed translated as "he descended into Hell..."

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 10:06 AM
I usually see the Apostle's Creed translated as "he descended into Hell..."

didn't even notice.....me too.......I just used what came up when I googled it.....

Jade Dragon
03-18-2018, 11:08 AM
A Christian is those that emulate Christ to the best of their abilities. Simple as that.

The Ugly Truth
03-18-2018, 11:48 AM
A Christian is those that emulate Christ to the best of their abilities. Simple as that.

That's not what the Bible says. A Christian is one who has given control of their life to God.

Boris The Animal
03-18-2018, 12:19 PM
A Christian is those that emulate Christ to the best of their abilities. Simple as that.

No, not as "simple as that" because you overlook one extremely important detail and I outlined it with Paul's letter to the Romans. There is no good that can come from man. We are totally incapable of redeeming ourselves and earning God's favor. In fact, Romans 3:23 states; "The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" In other words, you cannot earn Heaven. So no good we do can suffice, understand?

Boris The Animal
03-18-2018, 12:19 PM
That's not what the Bible says. A Christian is one who has given control of their life to God.

The Gospel Message in a nutshell.

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 12:26 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Jade Dragon View Post
A Christian is those that emulate Christ to the best of their abilities. Simple as that.

that is what those who are NOT Christians believe........Christianity believes Christianity is about faith rather than actions......

kudzu
03-18-2018, 12:33 PM
that is what those who are NOT Christians believe........Christianity believes Christianity is about faith rather than actions......

What denomination are you?

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 12:42 PM
What denomination are you?

idiot....go back and read the answer I gave you the first two times you asked.......if you can't be bothered to read and remember why should I waste my time talking to you......

kudzu
03-18-2018, 12:52 PM
idiot....go back and read the answer I gave you the first two times you asked.......if you can't be bothered to read and remember why should I waste my time talking to you......

As I recall you avoided answering .. and it should be simple.. For instance I am an Episcopalian .. and I attended church with my husband who was Methodist. How hard is that?

PostmodernProphet
03-18-2018, 12:54 PM
As I recall you avoided answering .. and it should be simple.. For instance I am an Episcopalian .. and I attended church with my husband who was Methodist. How hard is that?

you recall incorrectly......you even thanked me for my answer.....

iolo
03-19-2018, 05:58 AM
Christians also reject socialism, because they aren't overly fond of state-sponsored mass murder. Why should Christians be so keen on capitalist states, since they are just the central committees of the boss class?

iolo
03-19-2018, 06:00 AM
A Christian is those that emulate Christ to the best of their abilities. Simple as that. Made a lot of money out of cheating, did he? Thought somebody called God was rewarding him by making him rich. America, America, wehat may we think of thee! Sorry, JD - just set me off.

Jade Dragon
03-19-2018, 07:09 AM
Made a lot of money out of cheating, did he? Thought somebody called God was rewarding him by making him rich. America, America, wehat may we think of thee! Sorry, JD - just set me off.

The pick, and choose Christians must be annoying you.

iolo
03-19-2018, 07:13 AM
The pick, and choose Christians must be annoying you. I must admit it. I was brought up a good Anglican Christian Socialist, long, long ago!

ThatOwlWoman
03-19-2018, 07:38 AM
It's fun to watch the contortions of a self-proclaimed member of ____ faith trying to justify his non-adherence to its teachings. But then, ever since the Evangelicals have tried to insert themselves into our secular government and public schools, it's been so.

iolo
03-19-2018, 08:48 AM
It's difficult to come at the exact nature of what Jesus taught, but what they had to put in the New Testament fortunately wipes out all the lies since Constantine. What a lot of people tend to be going for is nostalgia and/or self-righteousness. I'd say it was passably easy for us to know how he wanted us to act but extremely difficult to get into 'religious' stuff from long, long ago, stuff we should have been thinking through sensibly all these years. This posturing seems to be what so many mean by 'Faith'.

PostmodernProphet
03-19-2018, 08:53 AM
Why should Christians be so keen on capitalist states, since they are just the central committees of the boss class?

I think its because they are opposed to the godless socialists.......

domer76
03-20-2018, 02:54 AM
That's not what the Bible says. A Christian is one who has given control of their life to God.

Is not a Christian, fundamentally, one who believes that Christ was the son of God?

iolo
03-20-2018, 06:39 AM
Is not a Christian, fundamentally, one who believes that Christ was the son of God? Somebody who follows what Jesus said would seem more likely. The 'Son of God' bit seems to me circular thinking - What is a son of God? Someone like Jesus. What is a 'God'? Someone Jesus believed in.

PostmodernProphet
03-20-2018, 09:31 AM
Somebody who follows what Jesus said would seem more likely. The 'Son of God' bit seems to me circular thinking - What is a son of God? Someone like Jesus. What is a 'God'? Someone Jesus believed in.

the fact you didn't know the answers to those questions tells us you aren't a Christian.....the response is not that God is someone Jesus believed in.......the answer is God IS Jesus and Jesus IS God....

iolo
03-23-2018, 07:58 AM
Do American religious ever give no thought for the morrow, by the way?

leaningright
03-24-2018, 04:11 PM
I will be speaking at a lectureship next week based on II Peter 5-8...Growing the Christian’s faith

2 Peter 1:5-8
Fruitful Growth in the Faith
But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I got the topic of love and will focus most of my 40 minutes on loving our neighbor. Believe me, that takes work.

FUCK THE POLICE
03-24-2018, 04:49 PM
Bigotry? Hatefullness? Xenophobia? Constant fear, aggression, and greed? Ignorance? Cruelty? These are all traits that typify Christians in the US.

FUCK THE POLICE
03-24-2018, 04:55 PM
I will be speaking at a lectureship next week based on II Peter 5-8...Growing the Christian’s faith

2 Peter 1:5-8
Fruitful Growth in the Faith
But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I got the topic of love and will focus most of my 40 minutes on loving our neighbor. Believe me, that takes work.

Hypocrite

leaningright
03-24-2018, 05:17 PM
Hypocrite

Are you saying that I don’t love my neighbor, Mr. Malema?

Guno צְבִי
03-24-2018, 06:02 PM
you can make a mythical character say anything

The Ugly Truth
03-24-2018, 06:25 PM
Are you saying that I don’t love my neighbor, Mr. Malema?

Is loving the same thing as liking? The way I see it, the love we should show sinners is the kind of love that doesn't want anyone to suffer in hell. Doesn't mean we have to like them. Does it?

The Ugly Truth
03-24-2018, 06:26 PM
you can make a mythical character say anything

That would explain the crap you post. You're imaginary. A figment of my imagination. That explains everything.

leaningright
03-24-2018, 06:33 PM
Is loving the same thing as liking? The way I see it, the love we should show sinners is the kind of love that doesn't want anyone to suffer in hell. Doesn't mean we have to like them. Does it?

No, I don’t think it does. I have to love my enemies. It’s defnitely not the same thing as having to like them. Same goes for my neighbor (fellowman).

The Ugly Truth
03-24-2018, 06:47 PM
No, I don’t think it does. I have to love my enemies. It’s defnitely not the same thing as having to like them. Same goes for my neighbor (fellowman).

So as long as you don't hate them, everything is kosher?

leaningright
03-24-2018, 07:02 PM
So as long as you don't hate them, everything is kosher?

Not sure where you are going here but hate is definitely not an option for feelings toward people. There are obviously other things/attitudes besides full blown hate that would make things un-kosher in our dealings with others.

PostmodernProphet
03-24-2018, 09:09 PM
Are you saying that I don’t love my neighbor, Mr. Malema?

Watermark loves no one who doesn't fit in a pillow case......

iolo
03-27-2018, 05:47 AM
Outsiders are bound to ask whether the majority of the sort of religious people who support Trump and his like can possibly be using the term in the usual sense, looking, for instance, at his latest antics. They seem interested only in taking thought for the morrow and piling up the cash. I seem to recollect that is the worship of Mammon.

kudzu
04-21-2018, 10:58 AM
Since Jesus believed in Hell, there had to be people to go there, namely the rich. Read the parable of Dives and Lazarus, what Jesus said to the rich young man, what they did about property in the early Church, etc, etc, etc. I'd say Jesus thought you'd be better to find the evil of the day sufficient, without building up hugely more, like Trump and the rest of you Mammon-worshippers. When you can spare time from robbing one another, read the New Testament.


Jesus was a Jew.. They don't believe in hell.

Guno צְבִי
04-21-2018, 04:26 PM
The Nicene Creed. Lines up with Scripture.

it should as the same people invented it and wrote it

Guno צְבִי
04-21-2018, 04:27 PM
Christians claim to worship God as an omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent being, they make him out to be incompetent bumbler. Or worse. Simple forgiveness is beyond his capacities. God must "sacrifice himself to himself to change a rule he made himself!"

This is not only an absurdity, it is an essential absurdity. It is present in almost all forms of Christianity, and one can scarcely remove it and remain a Christian in anything but name. By definition, all Christians worship Christ - in some form - and most worship him as a saviour.

But what, exactly, is he saving us from? Though it varies from church to church, no matter what they call it, it's God himself. A hell created by God, a world fallen as a result of God's negligence, a separation from God imposed... by God.

Christianity certainly isn't the first religion to promote appeasement of its gods, and if it were merely another supernatural protection racket, it would be bad enough. Unfortunately, it doesn't stop there. Christians elevate appeasement to the realm of "personal relationship", transforming their religion into a true monstrosity.

ThatOwlWoman
04-21-2018, 04:38 PM
But what, exactly, is he saving us from? Though it varies from church to church, no matter what they call it, it's God himself. A hell created by God, a world fallen as a result of God's negligence, a separation from God imposed... by God.


Many Christians will tell you it's all Eve's fault, of course. That's right -- blame the woman. Says so right there in the Book.

I can't think of anything more heinous than to teach your children that they were born flawed, sinful, possibly bordering on evil. So they had better go to church and accept Jesus or they are hell-bound.

Guno צְבִי
04-21-2018, 04:43 PM
Many Christians will tell you it's all Eve's fault, of course. That's right -- blame the woman. Says so right there in the Book.

I can't think of anything more heinous than to teach your children that they were born flawed, sinful, possibly bordering on evil. So they had better go to church and accept Jesus or they are hell-bound.

Yes it's child abuse

PostmodernProphet
04-21-2018, 05:21 PM
Jesus was a Jew.. They don't believe in hell.

I believe he proved you wrong.....

PostmodernProphet
04-21-2018, 05:23 PM
Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
Many Christians will tell you it's all Eve's fault, of course. That's right -- blame the woman. Says so right there in the Book.

I can't think of anything more heinous than to teach your children that they were born flawed, sinful, possibly bordering on evil. So they had better go to church and accept Jesus or they are hell-bound.
much better to let them grow up as unbelievers and go to hell.......

PostmodernProphet
04-21-2018, 05:24 PM
Christians claim to worship God as an omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent being, they make him out to be incompetent bumbler. Or worse. Simple forgiveness is beyond his capacities. God must "sacrifice himself to himself to change a rule he made himself!"

This is not only an absurdity, it is an essential absurdity. It is present in almost all forms of Christianity, and one can scarcely remove it and remain a Christian in anything but name. By definition, all Christians worship Christ - in some form - and most worship him as a saviour.

But what, exactly, is he saving us from? Though it varies from church to church, no matter what they call it, it's God himself. A hell created by God, a world fallen as a result of God's negligence, a separation from God imposed... by God.

Christianity certainly isn't the first religion to promote appeasement of its gods, and if it were merely another supernatural protection racket, it would be bad enough. Unfortunately, it doesn't stop there. Christians elevate appeasement to the realm of "personal relationship", transforming their religion into a true monstrosity.

nasty atheists......

kudzu
04-21-2018, 05:33 PM
I believe he proved you wrong.....

You mean "Sheol" and "Hades"?

PostmodernProphet
04-21-2018, 07:25 PM
You mean "Sheol" and "Hades"?

mostly I just mean you are wrong.......

leaningright
04-21-2018, 08:01 PM
Many Christians will tell you it's all Eve's fault, of course. That's right -- blame the woman. Says so right there in the Book.

I can't think of anything more heinous than to teach your children that they were born flawed, sinful, possibly bordering on evil. So they had better go to church and accept Jesus or they are hell-bound.

Then don’t teach them that. Teach the the truth:

I wasn’t born a sinner or guilty of sin. Each accountable person is responsible for his own sin. (Ezekiel 18:20) So when I am old enough to know right from wrong (an age that varies from person to person) and I sin ... and I will (Romans 3:23), I incur a debt that I cannot pay. I deserve [eternal] death (Romans 6:23a) but because of the grace of God I have this gift that makes [eternal] life possible (Romans 6:23b). There aren’t but two roads or destinations to choose from...and it is our choice (Matthew 7:13-14).

Once I hear the story of this matchless Grace (The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ - I Corinthians 15:1-3) I must choose to accept this gift on God’s terms, Believing in Him and that Jesus is His son (Hebrews 11:6; John 8:24), Repenting Of my Sins (Acts 17:30), choosing to follow His rules for my life to the best of my ability, Confessing before men with my mouth that I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God (Romans 10:9-10; Acts 8:37), and allowing myself to be baptized (buried/immersed in water) for the remission (washing away) Of Sins in the blood of the Lamb/Jesus (Mark 16:15-16; Acts 2:38; 22:16; Revelation 7:14). Then I must remain faithful, following His rules for my life to the best of my ability as long as I live on this earth (Revelation 2:10). There are things for me to abstain from ... ways for me to be and not to be (I Corinthians 6:9-11; Galatians 5:19-25; Hebrews 10:25-26). I will fail and fall short so I continually rely on the blood of Christ for forgiveness (I John 1:7; James 5:16). I realize that the things of this world are temporary and I have a living hope for something much better (James 4:4; I John 2:15-16; Hebrews 11:13-16). Teach them this truth.

Mason Michaels
04-21-2018, 08:15 PM
Jesus was a Jew.. They don't believe in hell.

You are assuming Jesus took the modern Jew's POV.

ThatOwlWoman
04-21-2018, 08:53 PM
Then don’t teach them that. Teach the the truth:

I wasn’t born a sinner or guilty of sin. Each accountable person is responsible for his own sin. (Ezekiel 18:20) So when I am old enough to know right from wrong (an age that varies from person to person) and I sin ... and I will (Romans 3:23), I incur a debt that I cannot pay. I deserve [eternal] death (Romans 6:23a) but because of the grace of God I have this gift that makes [eternal] life possible (Romans 6:23b). There aren’t but two roads or destinations to choose from...and it is our choice (Matthew 7:13-14).

Once I hear the story of this matchless Grace (The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ - I Corinthians 15:1-3) I must choose to accept this gift on God’s terms, Believing in Him and that Jesus is His son (Hebrews 11:6; John 8:24), Repenting Of my Sins (Acts 17:30), choosing to follow His rules for my life to the best of my ability, Confessing before men with my mouth that I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God (Romans 10:9-10; Acts 8:37), and allowing myself to be baptized (buried/immersed in water) for the remission (washing away) Of Sins in the blood of the Lamb/Jesus (Mark 16:15-16; Acts 2:38; 22:16; Revelation 7:14). Then I must remain faithful, following His rules for my life to the best of my ability as long as I live on this earth (Revelation 2:10). There are things for me to abstain from ... ways for me to be and not to be (I Corinthians 6:9-11; Galatians 5:19-25; Hebrews 10:25-26). I will fail and fall short so I continually rely on the blood of Christ for forgiveness (I John 1:7; James 5:16). I realize that the things of this world are temporary and I have a living hope for something much better (James 4:4; I John 2:15-16; Hebrews 11:13-16). Teach them this truth.

Well, thanks, but no thanks. I taught my kids empathy by asking them when they hit someone else, or snatched their toy away, or pulled the dog's ear "How would you feel if someone did that to you?" I raised them to know that they are amazing and valued and cherished beings, born right the first time, in no need of "salvation" from a deity. I took them to the woods and the land and the lakes and taught them to listen to the breath of the wind in the trees, the songs of birds and insects, and to love the sky and storms and sun -- because these things are life itself. We are part of this life, not above or separate from it.

We watched CNN and other news channels and sorrowed with those affected by wars and disasters. When Hurricane Andrew wiped out parts of Florida, they had a garage sale and sold some of their stuffed animal toys and other stuff, and gave me the proceeds to donate to the Red Cross. I did drag them to Mass and PSR because their dad insisted on it, but I gave them what matters most -- the knowledge that "I am a worthy person, capable of great things and of helping others." They have lived up to that.

BTW, I am pagan and have been for decades.

leaningright
04-21-2018, 08:58 PM
Well, thanks, but no thanks. I taught my kids empathy by asking them when they hit someone else, or snatched their toy away, or pulled the dog's ear "How would you feel if someone did that to you?" I raised them to know that they are amazing and valued and cherished beings, born right the first time, in no need of "salvation" from a deity. I took them to the woods and the land and the lakes and taught them to listen to the breath of the wind in the trees, the songs of birds and insects, and to love the sky and storms and sun -- because these things are life itself. We are part of this life, not above or separate from it.

We watched CNN and other news channels and sorrowed with those affected by wars and disasters. When Hurricane Andrew wiped out parts of Florida, they had a garage sale and sold some of their stuffed animal toys and other stuff, and gave me the proceeds to donate to the Red Cross. I did drag them to Mass and PSR because their dad insisted on it, but I gave them what matters most -- the knowledge that "I am a worthy person, capable of great things and of helping others." They have lived up to that.

BTW, I am pagan and have been for decades.

Respectfully, I have gathered what you have written from following your posts since you arrived here, but I couldn’t resist the opportunity to write that post.

Edit: I do appreciate you taking the time to respond.

kudzu
04-22-2018, 03:21 AM
You are assuming Jesus took the modern Jew's POV.

Absolutely not.. Looking at Judaism in the first century.

Oracle Of JPP 714
04-22-2018, 04:02 AM
Well, thanks, but no thanks. I taught my kids empathy by asking them when they hit someone else, or snatched their toy away, or pulled the dog's ear "How would you feel if someone did that to you?" I raised them to know that they are amazing and valued and cherished beings, born right the first time, in no need of "salvation" from a deity. I took them to the woods and the land and the lakes and taught them to listen to the breath of the wind in the trees, the songs of birds and insects, and to love the sky and storms and sun -- because these things are life itself. We are part of this life, not above or separate from it.

We watched CNN and other news channels and sorrowed with those affected by wars and disasters. When Hurricane Andrew wiped out parts of Florida, they had a garage sale and sold some of their stuffed animal toys and other stuff, and gave me the proceeds to donate to the Red Cross. I did drag them to Mass and PSR because their dad insisted on it, but I gave them what matters most -- the knowledge that "I am a worthy person, capable of great things and of helping others." They have lived up to that.

BTW, I am pagan and have been for decades.

Did you know that the origin of the masons were the pagans. It was one of the writings of Tom Paine, "the origin of the masons". The writings of tom paine should be mandatory reading from grade 1 to 12. They might cause some rwnuts heads to explode though.

Oracle Of JPP 714
04-22-2018, 04:10 AM
You don't define them. They define themselves by their actions. To me, a person who abides by "the sermon on the mount" and the 10 commandents would be a good christian. Anyone who follows the teachings of people like pat robertson, jerry fallwell, etc will wind up in hell, if there is one. I sure hope there's a hell.

Guno צְבִי
04-22-2018, 04:16 AM
much better to let them grow up as unbelievers and go to hell.......

That is your delusions

How sad

Oracle Of JPP 714
04-22-2018, 04:30 AM
That is your delusions

How sad

Guno is a great example of a fake christian by telling people who don't share his beliefs to go to hell. I say unto him, bless you my son.:palm:

PostmodernProphet
04-22-2018, 05:32 AM
That is your delusions

How sad

nobody is requiring you to accept the doctrines of Christianity........you are free to reject it........just don't lie about what it believes.......

ThatOwlWoman
04-22-2018, 06:55 AM
Respectfully, I have gathered what you have written from following your posts since you arrived here, but I couldn’t resist the opportunity to write that post.
Edit: I do appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Thank you, LR, I also appreciate your grace and civility. Both are rare commodities these days.

ThatOwlWoman
04-22-2018, 06:58 AM
Did you know that the origin of the masons were the pagans. It was one of the writings of Tom Paine, "the origin of the masons". The writings of tom paine should be mandatory reading from grade 1 to 12. They might cause some rwnuts heads to explode though.

Are you saying that the Founding Fathers and their associates were not, in fact, conservatives? They were rebellious rebels?? Now you're gonna get it, just wait!

Oracle Of JPP 714
04-22-2018, 07:14 AM
nasty atheists......

Dam, you must really be serious PP. Gosh six periods?

PostmodernProphet
04-22-2018, 07:39 AM
You don't define them. They define themselves by their actions. To me, a person who abides by "the sermon on the mount" and the 10 commandents would be a good christian.

and yet oddly, Jesus came to earth to correct that very belief and the sermon on the mount is where he explained it..........have you got anything in that recipe about believing that Jesus was God incarnate?.....

kudzu
04-25-2018, 07:34 AM
and yet oddly, Jesus came to earth to correct that very belief and the sermon on the mount is where he explained it..........have you got anything in that recipe about believing that Jesus was God incarnate?.....

MLK and Gandhi both studied the Sermon on the Mount for guidance in non violent resistance to oppression.

Phantasmal
04-25-2018, 07:49 AM
Galatians 5:22-23 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+5%3A22-23&version=ESV) ESV / 561 helpful votes But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.


Philippians 4:8 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians+4%3A8&version=ESV) ESV / 480 helpful votes Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.


2 Peter 1:5-7 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Peter+1%3A5-7&version=ESV) ESV / 333 helpful votes HelpfulNot HelpfulFor this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.


1 Timothy 4:12 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+4%3A12&version=ESV) ESV / 184 helpful votes Let no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity.


Colossians 3:12-15 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians+3%3A12-15&version=ESV) ESV / 275 helpful votes HelpfulNot HelpfulPut on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony. And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body. And be thankful.





1 Timothy 4:12 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+4%3A12&version=ESV) ESV / 184 helpful votes HelpfulNot HelpfulLet no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity.


1 Peter 1:14 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Peter+1%3A14&version=ESV) ESV / 131 helpful votes Helpful Not HelpfulAs obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance


2 Timothy 2:24 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Timothy+2%3A24&version=ESV) ESV / 82 helpful votes And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil,


1 Timothy 1:5 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+1%3A5&version=ESV) ESV / 63 helpful votes Helpful Not HelpfulThe aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.


openbible.com

Here are some characteristics of Christian, there are too many who fail miserably.

Phantasmal
04-25-2018, 07:51 AM
Christians also reject socialism, because they aren't overly fond of state-sponsored mass murder.
The early church members practiced communalism, pooling all their resources for the benefit of all.

Cancel 2019.1
04-25-2018, 09:05 AM
The early church members practiced communalism, pooling all their resources for the benefit of all.

We do that here!But only for the 1%

PostmodernProphet
04-25-2018, 11:59 AM
MLK and Gandhi both studied the Sermon on the Mount for guidance in non violent resistance to oppression.

it would be a pity if that was all they learned from it.....meanwhile, did you learn anything?.....

kudzu
04-25-2018, 01:03 PM
it would be a pity if that was all they learned from it.....meanwhile, did you learn anything?.....

Jesus is teaching the people how to cope with the abuses of Roman law and occupation.. in specifics.. He's teaching them to shame the enemy... Jesus wasn't living in a vaccumn.

PostmodernProphet
04-25-2018, 02:21 PM
Jesus is teaching the people how to cope with the abuses of Roman law and occupation.. in specifics.. He's teaching them to shame the enemy... .

oh wow......not even close......nothing there at all about Roman law......

kudzu
04-25-2018, 03:08 PM
oh wow......not even close......nothing there at all about Roman law......

Specific to Roman law... a soldier could tell a Jew to carry his 60 lb pack a mile, or he could strike him or take his cloak.

Education does help.

CFM
04-25-2018, 03:17 PM
In these fora, I see misconceptions all the time about what makes a "good" Christian. Leftists/Liberals like to equate government welfare largess as fulfilling the idea of "feeding the poor", etc. rather than doing it out of their OWN resources, as it should be. But I submit the BIBLICAL definition of a Christian, as outlined throughout Scripture, is acknowledging there is absolutely zero good in mankind. Romans Chapter 3:9-20 talks about the unrighteousness of man, and that no good can ever earn him Heaven, nor a relationship with God. "What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. As it is written:

'There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.'" (NIV)

So basically, in God's economy because of our sin, we have zero chance at attaining Heaven, even though we might seem "good" or "moral", it is still not enough!
So what EXACTLY is the solution? The Cross! Christ's death on the cross is God's way to establish the relationship between Himself and mankind. This was the full payment for the penalty of our sins; past, present, and future. "As far as the East is from the West, I will remember your sins no more", says the Lord of Hosts. Does this give us license to sin? No, but God's forgiveness does give us true freedom in Him. This is the right definition of a Christian. The works we do come as a result of our salvation and the purpose is to bring others to the Cross.

How often lefties equate supporting someone else being forced to fund programs they want in place with compassion and charity. Last time I looked, compassion comes when the person wanting something done does so voluntarily not supporting someone else being subject to a mandate for which you can take credit.

CFM
04-25-2018, 03:19 PM
The early church members practiced communalism, pooling all their resources for the benefit of all.

VOLUNTARILY pooling their resources. That makes a difference.

Minister of Truth
04-25-2018, 05:18 PM
The early church members practiced communalism, pooling all their resources for the benefit of all.

But they didn't ban religion or go Che Guevara on anyone.

PostmodernProphet
04-25-2018, 05:42 PM
Specific to Roman law... a soldier could tell a Jew to carry his 60 lb pack a mile, or he could strike him or take his cloak.

Education does help.

what....the....fuck......does that have to do with the Sermon on the Mount.......have you gone daft?......

PostmodernProphet
04-25-2018, 05:43 PM
But they didn't ban religion or go Che Guevara on anyone.

or even have the government begin manufacturing shoes.......

kudzu
04-28-2018, 11:02 PM
what....the....fuck......does that have to do with the Sermon on the Mount.......have you gone daft?......

The burning issue of the first century was Roman occupation of Palestine.. The taxes, abuses and laws had caused the Jews to split into five factions.. and they quarreled amongst themselves. There were the Zealots. Herodians, Sicarri, Pharisees and Essenes.. The Essenes basically retreated and moved to the area of the Dead Sea.

Jesus was trying to teach them how to survive.. and how to shame their enemies with non-violent resistance because he knew they were on a collision course with the Romans and they would NOT win.

If you knew anything at all about the political situation in Palestine, you would know this to be true. Their discontent was further fueled by high unemployment because Herod's construction projects were finished.

iewitness
04-28-2018, 11:28 PM
The burning issue of the first century was Roman occupation of Palestine.. The taxes, abuses and laws had caused the Jews to split into five factions.. and they quarreled amongst themselves. There were the Zealots. Herodians, Sicarri, Pharisees and Essenes.. The Essenes basically retreated and moved to the area of the Dead Sea.

Jesus was trying to teach them how to survive.. and how to shame their enemies with non-violent resistance because he knew they were on a collision course with the Romans and they would NOT win.

If you knew anything at all about the political situation in Palestine, you would know this to be true. Their discontent was further fueled by high unemployment because Herod's construction projects were finished.

that description of the political situation sounds a lot like the current perilous times for the faithful; other than the fact there is enough work to kill a working man and there is no discontent in the faithful; and the fact that "palestine" is a fiction of the damned. your education lacks a couple things: faith and repentance.

kudzu
04-28-2018, 11:42 PM
that description of the political situation sounds a lot like the current perilous times for the faithful; other than the fact there is enough work to kill a working man and there is no discontent in the faithful; and the fact that "palestine" is a fiction of the damned. your education lacks a couple things: faith and repentance.

Hahaha.. who the fuck do you think you are?

iewitness
04-28-2018, 11:46 PM
Hahaha.. who the fuck do you think you are?

I am just a witness. i testify truly what I see and hear. I know who I am, where I am and what time it is. who in hell are you ?

kudzu
04-28-2018, 11:48 PM
I am a witness.

You are a reading impaired ignoramus... The Romans didn't care about Jewish repentance. The Sermon on the Mount was about how to cope with the Roman Occupation.

iewitness
04-28-2018, 11:53 PM
You are a reading impaired ignoramus... The Romans didn't care about Jewish repentance. The Sermon on the Mount was about how to cope with the Roman Occupation.

ok. keep the facts straight. what time was that ? what time is it now ? context is important.

kudzu
04-29-2018, 12:04 AM
ok. keep the facts straight. what time was that ? what time is it now ? context is important.


Most scholars think the Sermon on the Mount took place early in Jesus ministry.

BTW.. It was called Syria-Palestine from the 5th century before Christ.. Palestine was a province of Syria according to the Greek historian Herodotus.

iewitness
04-29-2018, 12:09 AM
BTW.. It was called Syria-Palestine from the 5th century before Christ.. Palestine was a province of Syria according to the Greek historian Herodotus.

I testified who I am. who are you ? this thread is about defining a follower of Christ. who are you ? this thread is not about your easily incorrect/revised technical history. testify. who in the fuck do you think you are ? I am done going back and forth with you. answer or don't answer.

kudzu
04-29-2018, 05:39 AM
I testified who I am. who are you ? this thread is about defining a follower of Christ. who are you ? this thread is not about your easily incorrect/revised technical history. testify. who in the fuck do you think you are ? I am done going back and forth with you. answer or don't answer.

This thread is about the politics of the first century ... the circumstances the Jews faced at the time. Do you think Jesus was living in a vaccumn?

Before this episode, Jesus had been "all about Galilee" preaching in Galilee.. This sermon was after he had been baptized by John the Baptist.

Jesus references the Kingdom of God.... meaning the end of an age and the beginning of a new one... and
the spiritual rewards and blessings of God in His new age which came at A.D.70.

PostmodernProphet
04-29-2018, 05:41 AM
Jesus was trying to teach them how to survive. .

????.....you are hopeless.....why do you pretend to know anything about scripture.....


If you knew anything at all about the political situation in Palestine, you would know this to be true.

if you knew anything about the Bible you would know it is not.....

PostmodernProphet
04-29-2018, 05:43 AM
You are a reading impaired ignoramus... The Romans didn't care about Jewish repentance. The Sermon on the Mount was about how to cope with the Roman Occupation.

your ignorance is dangerous.......someone might be stupid enough to take you seriously.......

PostmodernProphet
04-29-2018, 05:45 AM
You are a reading impaired ignoramus... The Romans didn't care about Jewish repentance.

Jesus cared about Jewish repentance.......he gave the sermon, not the Romans.......

PostmodernProphet
04-29-2018, 05:47 AM
This thread is about the politics of the first century ... .

no it isn't......the title of the thread is what defines a Christian.........you're off topic ramblings have been about the politics of the first century......

kudzu
04-29-2018, 06:13 AM
Jesus cared about Jewish repentance.......he gave the sermon, not the Romans.......


Jesus was speaking to the Jews and addressing the conditions at the time. Any Roman soldier could demand a Jews carry his pack a mile or hit a Jew or take his cloak according to Roman law.

kudzu
04-29-2018, 06:14 AM
your ignorance is dangerous.......someone might be stupid enough to take you seriously.......

Did you attend one of those 2 year Bible colleges in TN?

PostmodernProphet
04-29-2018, 06:30 AM
Jesus was speaking to the Jews and addressing the conditions at the time.

yes, the salvation of humanity from its depravity......

PostmodernProphet
04-29-2018, 06:31 AM
Did you attend one of those 2 year Bible colleges in TN?

no.....did you read a book to become a biblical scholar or you just another bachelor of sciences graduate?....

Oracle Of JPP 714
04-29-2018, 06:45 AM
Please, no washed in blood shit today because sunday's my fun day. don't make me depressed.

kudzu
04-29-2018, 07:00 AM
yes, the salvation of humanity from its depravity......

Matt. 13:40 reads: “As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.” However, “world” here is translated from the Greek word “aion” which means “age, dispensation, era, or a period of time.

Jesus tells them quite clearly that the end would come in “this generation” . The word “generation” means: “those who are contemporaries or live at the same time.”

So, the age that was to end was the Jewish age. It would end with the destruction of the Jewish temple and the city Jerusalem. The end of the age did not happen at the cross or at Pentecost but at the destruction of Jerusalem. The world was not going to end but the age of Judaism was.

ThatOwlWoman
04-29-2018, 07:26 AM
Matt. 13:40 reads: “As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.” However, “world” here is translated from the Greek word “aion” which means “age, dispensation, era, or a period of time.

Jesus tells them quite clearly that the end would come in “this generation” . The word “generation” means: “those who are contemporaries or live at the same time.”

So, the age that was to end was the Jewish age. It would end with the destruction of the Jewish temple and the city Jerusalem. The end of the age did not happen at the cross or at Pentecost but at the destruction of Jerusalem. The world was not going to end but the age of Judaism was.

I always enjoy your informed posts on these topics.

kudzu
04-29-2018, 07:38 AM
I always enjoy your informed posts on these topics.

Well thanks... Most of the NT was written in Greek.. Its important to know what the words meant before they were translated.. There's no good reason to change the text.

ThatOwlWoman
04-29-2018, 07:52 AM
Well thanks... Most of the NT was written in Greek.. Its important to know what the words meant before they were translated.. There's no good reason to change the text.

That bothered me since I was a kid and read the book back to back, 2 or 3 times. How do we know that the translations into English are accurate, if we have no foundation in the original language(s)? Have you studied Greek, Latin, and/or Aramaic?

kudzu
04-29-2018, 07:58 AM
That bothered me since I was a kid and read the book back to back, 2 or 3 times. How do we know that the translations into English are accurate, if we have no foundation in the original language(s)? Have you studied Greek, Latin, and/or Aramaic?

I have not.. but anytime there is a concept or language that doesn't quite ring true, I research the key words.

Evangelicals state emphatically that Jesus was the "suffering servant"... but throughout the Bible Israel is referred to as the suffering servant or slave of God.. You see what a difference that makes?

iewitness
04-29-2018, 08:16 AM
Matt. 13:40 reads: “As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.” However, “world” here is translated from the Greek word “aion” which means “age, dispensation, era, or a period of time.

Jesus tells them quite clearly that the end would come in “this generation” . The word “generation” means: “those who are contemporaries or live at the same time.”

So, the age that was to end was the Jewish age. It would end with the destruction of the Jewish temple and the city Jerusalem. The end of the age did not happen at the cross or at Pentecost but at the destruction of Jerusalem. The world was not going to end but the age of Judaism was.

you have plenty of head knowledge, but you do not have heart knowledge/ "rhema" http://biblehub.com/greek/4487.htm . this is how The Lord teaches us his preserved word/ "logos" http://biblehub.com/greek/3056.htm . the logos is hidden and a mystery without the revealing rhema. the rebirth imparts an unction from the Holy Spirit. esp.20- http://biblehub.com/kjv/1_john/2.htm you seem to be unregenerate and yet spiritually dead. if you deny the Son, you have not the Father; ye are of your father the devil and have not been "born again" from above. it is very common for people to have head knowledge and try to do good and be perfect and believe they are without sin. if you deny the Son of God, you are still in your sins. ye must be born again... http://biblehub.com/kjv/john/3.htm Pharisees always touted their education and standing. is that who you are? are you a modern Pharisee ? saducee? Herodian? I see the characteristics of all these in you. testify.

kudzu
04-29-2018, 08:34 AM
you have plenty of head knowledge, but you do not have heart knowledge/ "rhema" http://biblehub.com/greek/4487.htm . this is how The Lord teaches us his preserved word/ "logos" http://biblehub.com/greek/3056.htm . the logos is hidden and a mystery without the revealing rhema. you seem to be unregenerate and yet spiritually dead. if you deny the Son, you have not the Father; ye are of your father the devil and have not been "born again" from above. it is very common for people to have head knowledge and try to do good and be perfect and believe they are without sin. if you deny the Son of God, you are still in your sins. ye must be born again... http://biblehub.com/kjv/john/3.htm Pharisees always touted their education and standing. is that who you are? are you a modern Pharisee ? saducee? Herodian? I see the characteristics of all these in you. testify.


Don't be absurd.. Who are you to tell me I don't have the Son?

iewitness
04-29-2018, 08:38 AM
Don't be absurd.. Who are you to tell me I don't have the Son?

is Jesus Christ The Lord, The Son of God ? testify truly. do not be ashamed of The Lord Jesus. shut me up.

kudzu
04-29-2018, 08:56 AM
is Jesus Christ The Lord, The Son of God ? testify truly. do not be ashamed of The Lord Jesus. shut me up.

You're one of those asses that makes assumptions of others. Faith is very personal. Pray in private instead of making a spectacle of yourself.

iewitness
04-29-2018, 09:14 AM
You're one of those asses that makes assumptions of others. Faith is very personal. Pray in private instead of making a spectacle of yourself.

I promise to leave you alone. I will not bother you anymore. please ignore me.

PostmodernProphet
04-29-2018, 09:39 AM
Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
I always enjoy your informed posts on these topics..

ROFL.....deception is just the type of information atheists love......

PostmodernProphet
04-29-2018, 09:41 AM
I have not.. but anytime there is a concept or language that doesn't quite ring true, I research the key words.

Evangelicals state emphatically that Jesus was the "suffering servant"... but throughout the Bible Israel is referred to as the suffering servant or slave of God.. You see what a difference that makes?

?????.....actually it is the Messiah who is referred to specifically as the suffering servant and Israel is referred to as slaves to their sin.......you see what a difference that makes?.....

PostmodernProphet
04-29-2018, 09:42 AM
Don't be absurd.. Who are you to tell me I don't have the Son?

you yourself have stated it........

PostmodernProphet
04-29-2018, 09:44 AM
You're one of those asses that makes assumptions of others. Faith is very personal. Pray in private instead of making a spectacle of yourself.

a simple question.....which you cannot answer truthfully without discrediting yourself.........faith is NOT something private......

kudzu
04-29-2018, 09:48 AM
?????.....actually it is the Messiah who is referred to specifically as the suffering servant and Israel is referred to as slaves to their sin.......you see what a difference that makes?.....

Nope.. The suffering servant is Israel all thru scripture over and over again.. just like Israel is the Whore of Babylon or the Great Harlot.. compared some 80 times to a faithless woman.

PostmodernProphet
04-29-2018, 09:49 AM
Nope.. The suffering servant is Israel all thru scripture over and over again.. just like Israel is the Whore of Babylon or the Great Harlot.. compared some 80 times to a faithless woman.
sorry, but you just made that up......

kudzu
04-29-2018, 09:58 AM
sorry, but you just made that up......


Nope.. The scripture says the suffering servant will be hated.. and by all accounts people didn't hate Jesus.. they flocked to see him..
.
Or were you talking about the Whore of Babylon? Israel is the great harlot..

Your training is right out of the depression era fundamentalism

Oracle Of JPP 714
04-29-2018, 10:02 AM
That bothered me since I was a kid and read the book back to back, 2 or 3 times. How do we know that the translations into English are accurate, if we have no foundation in the original language(s)? Have you studied Greek, Latin, and/or Aramaic?

I haven't but I have memorized every word in the urban dictionary, an enlightening website for people with enquiring minds with the need to know.

Oracle Of JPP 714
04-29-2018, 10:04 AM
is Jesus Christ The Lord, The Son of God ? testify truly. do not be ashamed of The Lord Jesus. shut me up.

bless you my son and STFU.

Guno צְבִי
04-29-2018, 10:16 AM
?????.....actually it is the Messiah who is referred to specifically as the suffering servant and Israel is referred to as slaves to their sin.......you see what a difference that makes?.....

No wonder Jews look at you fundy goyim as uneducated lower forms of intelligence

http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/prooftext10is53.html

kudzu
04-29-2018, 10:19 AM
No wonder Jews look at you fundy goyim as uneducated lower forms of intelligence

http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/prooftext10is53.html

Sad IMO.. It doesn't have to be like that.

Identity of the Suffering Servant.

Isaiah chapters 42, 49 and 50.) Though the “servant” in Isaiah 53 is not openly identified – these verses merely refer to “My servant” (52:13, 53:11) – the “servant” in each of the previous Servant Songs is plainly and repeatedly identified as the Jewish nation. Beginning with chapter 41, the equating of God’s Servant with the nation of Israel is made nine times by the prophet Isaiah, and no one other than Israel is identified as the “servant”:
•“You are My servant, O Israel” (41:8)
•“You are My servant, Israel” (49:3)
•see also Isaiah 44:1, 44:2, 44:21, 45:4, 48:20

The Bible is filled with other references to the Jewish people as God’s “servant”; see Jeremiah 30:10, 46:27-28; Psalms 136:22. There is no reason that the “servant” in Isaiah 53 would suddenly switch and refer to someone other than the Jewish people.

kudzu
04-29-2018, 10:44 AM
No wonder Jews look at you fundy goyim as uneducated lower forms of intelligence

http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/prooftext10is53.html

Good link, guno.


But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham, my friend. [Isaiah 41:8]

Remember these things, O Jacob, and Israel, for you are my servant; I formed you, you are my servant; O Israel, you will not be forgotten by me. [Isaiah 44:21]

For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I call you by your name, I surname you, though you do not know me. [Isaiah 45:4]

And He said to me, 'You are my servant, Israel, in whom I will be glorified.' [Isaiah 49:3]

And see also Isaiah 43:10; 44:1; 48:20, 49:7

Fentoine Lum
04-29-2018, 11:05 AM
If I recall correctly it has something to do with this....


if you disagree with any of the above you belong to some religion that is NOT Christian......

Or perhaps you have dispatched with religion in favor of a spiritual journey/path through life.

PostmodernProphet
04-29-2018, 11:34 AM
Your training is right out of the depression era fundamentalism

if you think so its obvious you've had no training...

PostmodernProphet
04-29-2018, 11:35 AM
www.whatjewsbelieve.org

odd, I could have sworn we were discussing Christianity.......that explains your error.....

PostmodernProphet
04-29-2018, 11:39 AM
There is no reason that the “servant” in Isaiah 53 would suddenly switch and refer to someone other than the Jewish people.

????....there isn't?......how about the text of Isaiah 53?.......is any of this true about the Jewish people?.....

He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.[b]
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life[d] and be satisfied[e];
by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g]
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

kudzu
04-29-2018, 11:39 AM
if you think so its obvious you've had no training...


He (the Suffering Servant) was despised and rejected by men. [Isaiah 53:3]

That's not Jesus..

Luke 2:52, ESV And Jesus increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man.

PostmodernProphet
04-29-2018, 11:41 AM
Good link, guno.


But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham, my friend. [Isaiah 41:8]

Remember these things, O Jacob, and Israel, for you are my servant; I formed you, you are my servant; O Israel, you will not be forgotten by me. [Isaiah 44:21]

For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I call you by your name, I surname you, though you do not know me. [Isaiah 45:4]

And He said to me, 'You are my servant, Israel, in whom I will be glorified.' [Isaiah 49:3]

And see also Isaiah 43:10; 44:1; 48:20, 49:7

not a single reference to a suffering servant, you see.....

PostmodernProphet
04-29-2018, 11:42 AM
He (the Suffering Servant0 was despised and rejected by men. [Isaiah 53:3]

That's not Jesus..


yes it was......perhaps you have overlooked that minor detail of his crucifixion......

kudzu
04-29-2018, 12:15 PM
yes it was......perhaps you have overlooked that minor detail of his crucifixion......

In Hebrew the meaning of the word messiah means an anointed king or priest.. fully human .. and there were several to include Cyrus.

Isaiah was written in celebration of the end of the Babylonian exile. The messiah was going to rebuild the Temple and unify and restore the 12 tribes.

PostmodernProphet
04-29-2018, 03:33 PM
In Hebrew the meaning of the word messiah means an anointed king or priest..

as an adjective it means annointed......as a noun it means The Annointed One....the Chosen One of God....
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Names_of_G-d/Messiah/messiah.html

kudzu
04-29-2018, 03:45 PM
if you think so its obvious you've had no training...

Yes, I have but I am an educated Episcopalian and a preterist because I love the history and archaeology of the region having visited it several times. My grandparents were true fundamentalists and very religious so I spent alot of time in their church. But, you know by the time you are 8 or 10 you know that the Noah story and the story of Jonah are fables.. I think either you write it all off as bullshit or you look for some deeper meaning and the reasons why the stories have survived. Personally I have come to the conclusion that they are very important, but not as science or history.

kudzu
04-29-2018, 03:50 PM
as an adjective it means annointed......as a noun it means The Annointed One....the Chosen One of God....
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Names_of_G-d/Messiah/messiah.html

No.. check your sources.. Messiah is an anointed king or priest.. Christians rewrote the meaning and borrowed from Old Testament prophesies as if they needed to vet Jesus.. There are many differences between the Torah and the Old Testament.

As monotheism has evolved I think it shameful that men like you have to say "the Jews got it wrong" to defend your beliefs.

The Jewish messiah spoken of after the Babylonian Exile was supposed to rebuild the temple and reunite the 12 tribes...

PostmodernProphet
04-29-2018, 03:52 PM
Yes, I have but I am an educated Episcopalian and a preterist because I love the history and archaeology of the region having visited it several times. My grandparents were true fundamentalists and very religious so I spent alot of time in their church. But, you know by the time you are 8 or 10 you know that the Noah story and the story of Jonah are fables.. I think either you write it all off as bullshit or you look for some deeper meaning and the reasons why the stories have survived. Personally I have come to the conclusion that they are very important, but not as science or history.

great....but you are still 100% wrong....

PostmodernProphet
04-29-2018, 03:53 PM
No..

dude, I am tired of your bullshit.....I gave you the source......you're being an idiot.....

Oracle Of JPP 714
04-29-2018, 04:14 PM
That's not what the Bible says. A Christian is one who has given control of their life to God.

Isn't that a little like S&M?

kudzu
04-29-2018, 04:19 PM
great....but you are still 100% wrong....

No.. I am not wrong.. You are just old and defensive..and sadly you turn a lot of people away from faith by demanding they believe in the supernatural.

Guno צְבִי
04-29-2018, 04:47 PM
????....there isn't?......how about the text of Isaiah 53?.......is any of this true about the Jewish people?.....



Amazing that the goy who had no knowledge of hebrew know anything about jewish scripture and knows what it says,

the ignorant goy only know what they are taught

The Context of Isaiah 53
The key to deciphering any biblical text is to view it in context. Isaiah 53 is the fourth of the four “Servant Songs.” (The others are found in Isaiah chapters 42, 49 and 50.) Though the “servant” in Isaiah 53 is not openly identified – these verses merely refer to “My servant” (52:13, 53:11) – the “servant” in each of the previous Servant Songs is plainly and repeatedly identified as the Jewish nation. Beginning with chapter 41, the equating of God’s Servant with the nation of Israel is made nine times by the prophet Isaiah, and no one other than Israel is identified as the “servant”:

“You are My servant, O Israel” (41:8)
“You are My servant, Israel” (49:3)
see also Isaiah 44:1, 44:2, 44:21, 45:4, 48:20
The Bible is filled with other references to the Jewish people as God’s “servant”; see Jeremiah 30:10, 46:27-28; Psalms 136:22. There is no reason that the “servant” in Isaiah 53 would suddenly switch and refer to someone other than the Jewish people.


One obvious question that needs to be addressed: How can the “Suffering Servant,” which the verses refer to grammatically in the singular, be equated with the entire Jewish nation?

The Jewish people are consistently referred to with the singular pronoun.
This question evaporates when we discover that throughout the Bible, the Jewish people are consistently referred to as a singular entity, using the singular pronoun. For example, when God speaks to the entire Jewish nation at Mount Sinai, all of the Ten Commandments are written as if speaking to an individual (Exodus 20:1-14). This is because the Jewish people are one unit, bound together with a shared national destiny (see Exodus 4:22, Deuteronomy chapter 32). This singular reference is even more common in biblical verses referring to the Messianic era, when the Jewish people will be fully united under the banner of God (see Hosea 14:6-7, Jeremiah 50:19).

As we will see, for numerous reasons this chapter cannot be referring to Jesus. Even in the Christian scriptures, the disciples did not consider the Suffering Servant as referring to Jesus (see Matthew 16:21-22, Mark 9:31-32, Luke 9:44-45).


http://www.aish.com/sp/ph/Isaiah_53_The_Suffering_Servant.html

PostmodernProphet
04-29-2018, 06:25 PM
No.. I am not wrong.. You are just old and defensive..and sadly you turn a lot of people away from faith by demanding they believe in the supernatural.

well Lord knows them educated Episcopalians aren't into anything supernatural..........you are wrong.....you will just have to deal with it.....

PostmodernProphet
04-29-2018, 06:33 PM
There is no reason that the “servant” in Isaiah 53 would suddenly switch and refer to someone other than the Jewish people.


yes there is.....it is speaking about an individual and while it is true that "The Jewish people are consistently referred to with the singular pronoun" that pronoun is "you" not "he"......


As we will see, for numerous reasons this chapter cannot be referring to Jesus.

really?.....any of this sound familiar?......

Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

can you give me an example of such things being said about the nation of Israel?....


After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life[d] and be satisfied[e];
by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g]
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

ThatOwlWoman
04-29-2018, 07:46 PM
I don't know what this man's religion is, or if he has one. I would say, though, that if he is Christian he exemplifies Jesus's teachings.

"As for the Waffle House hero, James Shaw Jr., he immediately took action following the shooting starting a GoFundMe page with an initial ending goal of $15,000 but ended up receiving more than eleven times that amount after the story became national news and raised over $165K.

Now, Shaw is using the donations funds to pay for the funerals of all four victims; DeEbony Groves, Akilah DaSilva, Joe R. Perez, and Taurean C. Sanderlin. This is what Shaw had to say about his use of the GoFundMe monies, "There are four families that are grieving right now. So much life was lost for no reason. I feel like it could be very selfish of me if I didn't point it out. And I apologize."

Shaw also spoke on his heroics stating the following, “I did that completely out of a selfish act. I was completely doing it just to save myself. I don't want people to think that I was the Terminator or Superman or anybody like that.""

https://www.vladtv.com/article/244379/waffle-house-hero-james-shaw-jr-to-pay-for-funeral-costs-of-victims

pbjTime
04-29-2018, 07:54 PM
A follower of Christ.

iewitness
04-29-2018, 09:51 PM
yes there is.....it is speaking about an individual and while it is true that "The Jewish people are consistently referred to with the singular pronoun" that pronoun is "you" not "he"......



really?.....any of this sound familiar?......


can you give me an example of such things being said about the nation of Israel?....

believers with The Spirit know in our hearts and that from the scriptures Jesus was the suffering servant; faithful unto death, even the death of the cross. fake jews produce fake news. these bastards will teach heresy and some will follow their pernicious ways. they are not jews; they say they are jews and are not, but they are proven liars. they are self deluded and shall remain in their sins because they refuse the Lamb of God. there is no more sacrifice for sin. allow them to do their job. they are the damned. just leave them alone so as not to give them convenient opportunity to speak their blasphemies. our redemption draws very near. I testify truly. what we are witnessing is the fulfillment of prophecy esp. 8-11 http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/2.htm esp. 7-13 http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/3.htm . hold fast to the faith once delivered to the saints. and faithful believers shall overcome esp. 7-12 http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/12.htm . it is good. right on schedule...

kudzu
04-30-2018, 04:11 AM
Amazing that the goy who had no knowledge of hebrew know anything about jewish scripture and knows what it says,

the ignorant goy only know what they are taught

The Context of Isaiah 53
The key to deciphering any biblical text is to view it in context. Isaiah 53 is the fourth of the four “Servant Songs.” (The others are found in Isaiah chapters 42, 49 and 50.) Though the “servant” in Isaiah 53 is not openly identified – these verses merely refer to “My servant” (52:13, 53:11) – the “servant” in each of the previous Servant Songs is plainly and repeatedly identified as the Jewish nation. Beginning with chapter 41, the equating of God’s Servant with the nation of Israel is made nine times by the prophet Isaiah, and no one other than Israel is identified as the “servant”:

“You are My servant, O Israel” (41:8)
“You are My servant, Israel” (49:3)
see also Isaiah 44:1, 44:2, 44:21, 45:4, 48:20
The Bible is filled with other references to the Jewish people as God’s “servant”; see Jeremiah 30:10, 46:27-28; Psalms 136:22. There is no reason that the “servant” in Isaiah 53 would suddenly switch and refer to someone other than the Jewish people.


One obvious question that needs to be addressed: How can the “Suffering Servant,” which the verses refer to grammatically in the singular, be equated with the entire Jewish nation?

The Jewish people are consistently referred to with the singular pronoun.
This question evaporates when we discover that throughout the Bible, the Jewish people are consistently referred to as a singular entity, using the singular pronoun. For example, when God speaks to the entire Jewish nation at Mount Sinai, all of the Ten Commandments are written as if speaking to an individual (Exodus 20:1-14). This is because the Jewish people are one unit, bound together with a shared national destiny (see Exodus 4:22, Deuteronomy chapter 32). This singular reference is even more common in biblical verses referring to the Messianic era, when the Jewish people will be fully united under the banner of God (see Hosea 14:6-7, Jeremiah 50:19).

As we will see, for numerous reasons this chapter cannot be referring to Jesus. Even in the Christian scriptures, the disciples did not consider the Suffering Servant as referring to Jesus (see Matthew 16:21-22, Mark 9:31-32, Luke 9:44-45).


http://www.aish.com/sp/ph/Isaiah_53_The_Suffering_Servant.html

True.. early Christians did NOT think Jesus was the messiah mentioned in Isaiah.

kudzu
04-30-2018, 04:16 AM
yes there is.....it is speaking about an individual and while it is true that "The Jewish people are consistently referred to with the singular pronoun" that pronoun is "you" not "he"......



really?.....any of this sound familiar?......


can you give me an example of such things being said about the nation of Israel?....

Over and over again all thru scripture Israel is spoken of as one entity.. sometimes the whore of Babylon.. other times as the suffering servant. Are you trying to change scripture?

Guno צְבִי
04-30-2018, 04:24 AM
Over and over again all thru scripture Israel is spoken of as one entity.. sometimes the whore of Babylon.. other times as the suffering servant. Are you trying to change scripture?
In addition
According to Torah, the Messiah will:

Ezekiel 37:26-28: Build the Third Temple
Isaiah 43:5-6: Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel
Isaiah 2:4: Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore."
Zechariah 14:9: Spread universal knowledge of the G-d of Israel - uniting the entire human race as one: "G-d will be King over all the world—on that day, G-d will be One and His Name will be One"
Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies. Additionally:

Jesus was not a prophet. Prophecy could only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry. During the time of Ezra (~300 BCE) the majority of Jews refused to move from Babylon to Israel, thus prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets (Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi). Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended.
Jesus was not descended from King David. Per Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1, the Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David. However, according to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father -- and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father's side from King David! The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from a verse in Isaiah describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as "virgin." This accords Jesus' birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by G-ds.
Tradition teaches that the Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. Deut. 13:1-4 states that all mitzvahs remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states its commandments are no longer applicable. (John 1:45 and 9:16, Acts 3:22 and 7:37)
In Christianity, the role of the messiah was redefined in order to fit the man’s career as written by his followers. As Jesus was said to have been resurrected, the Bible was examined with the purpose of finding evidence that the messiah would be killed without bringing peace to the world or redemption to Israel. There was therefore the expectation of a second coming, at which time Jesus would carry out the task expected of the messiah (because he obviously didn't do it the first time). This also required creation of an explanation for the first coming and its catastrophic end. The net result of all of this was to shift the function of the messiah from a visible level where it could be tested (as in Tanach, what Christians call the "Old Testament") to an invisible level where it could not. As a result of this reworking, the messiah’s goal the first time around was changed from the redemption of Israel to the atonement for "original sin". A reworking of Biblical themes.

Guno צְבִי
04-30-2018, 04:38 AM
believers with The Spirit know in our hearts and that from the scriptures Jesus was the suffering servant; faithful unto death, even the death of the cross. fake jews produce fake news. these bastards will teach heresy and some will follow their pernicious ways. they are not jews; they say they are jews and are not, but they are proven liars. they are self deluded and shall remain in their sins because they refuse the Lamb of God. there is no more sacrifice for sin. allow them to do their job. they are the damned. just leave them alone so as not to give them convenient opportunity to speak their blasphemies. our redemption draws very near. I testify truly. what we are witnessing is the fulfillment of prophecy esp. 8-11 http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/2.htm esp. 7-13 http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/3.htm . hold fast to the faith once delivered to the saints. and faithful believers shall overcome esp. 7-12 http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/12.htm . it is good. right on schedule...

the goyim knew nothing about hebrew scripture , it was only in the year 325 C.E. , the council of Nicea that voted jesus as God along with the construct of the christian bible which used mistranslations of the hebrew bible

Guno צְבִי
04-30-2018, 05:04 AM
The idea of the Trinity was made up by the Catholic Church, a status Jesus was elected to at the Council of Nicea in 325 CE.

· This was done on the orders of the Emperor Constantine who wished to make Christianity the new state religion of the Roman Empire.

· This ‘son of god’ status being given to Jesus was a follow on from pagan ideas of ‘god men’ such as Mithras and Dionysus.

Guno צְבִי
04-30-2018, 05:14 AM
Christians, do your research. There may have been a man that walked the earth in the land known as Nazareth that attempted to guide the people back to righteousness, but, this man was not JESUS CHRIST. You see no mention of any man in Nazareth named JESUS mentioned during the meetings in Rome, or of a woman named Mary (the virgin) giving birth to a child named Jesus.

https://www.oneworldofnations.com/2015/03/the-council-of-nicea-council-that.html

PostmodernProphet
04-30-2018, 05:34 AM
Over and over again all thru scripture Israel is spoken of as one entity.. sometimes the whore of Babylon.. other times as the suffering servant. Are you trying to change scripture?

Israel is NEVER referred to as a SUFFERING servant.......

PostmodernProphet
04-30-2018, 05:41 AM
Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies.

yes he is.....but it will not be finished until judgment day.....


Additionally:


thus prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets
I'm not dead yet.....


Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended.
John was alive and baptized him....

kudzu
04-30-2018, 05:43 AM
believers with The Spirit know in our hearts and that from the scriptures Jesus was the suffering servant; faithful unto death, even the death of the cross. fake jews produce fake news. these bastards will teach heresy and some will follow their pernicious ways. they are not jews; they say they are jews and are not, but they are proven liars. they are self deluded and shall remain in their sins because they refuse the Lamb of God. there is no more sacrifice for sin. allow them to do their job. they are the damned. just leave them alone so as not to give them convenient opportunity to speak their blasphemies. our redemption draws very near. I testify truly. what we are witnessing is the fulfillment of prophecy esp. 8-11 http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/2.htm esp. 7-13 http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/3.htm . hold fast to the faith once delivered to the saints. and faithful believers shall overcome esp. 7-12 http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/12.htm . it is good. right on schedule...


In your heart? Why don't you READ what it says instead?

PostmodernProphet
04-30-2018, 05:43 AM
Christians, do your research.

in summary Jews aren't Christians........thank you for your diatribe....

PostmodernProphet
04-30-2018, 05:44 AM
In your heart? Why don't you READ what it says instead?

because as Christians we read both the OT and the NT and consider both to be the word of God.......its sort of a defining characteristic of Christianity......

kudzu
04-30-2018, 05:47 AM
Israel is NEVER referred to as a SUFFERING servant.......

This is where the credibility of fundamentalists suffers.. You can't change scripture.

The writers of the gospels were working overtime to make Jesus fit ancient prophesies .. and they failed.

Jesus wasn't the messiah because he rode into Jerusalem on a donkey.. EVERYBODY rode donkeys..

Jesus is enough to stand on his own... There's no reason to borrow from the Jews to convince people.

Oracle Of JPP 714
04-30-2018, 06:22 AM
shakespeare wrote (to paraphrase), "even the devil can quote scripture to suit his purposes". Quoting scripture is often used as a scare tactic by wolves in sheeps clothing, whose main agenda is to enrich themselves. The billionaire, Pat robertson, of the CBN is the prime example of this evil act.


some charltons, such as jimmy swaggart, do it for trim. That whiny philander is still in business after being busted by the vice squad.

My point is: the words of the bible can be used to exploit and corrupt people's minds into heinous beliefs about things like race and cultural diversity. The "God is on my side" concept has been used to promote countless bloody wars throughout history by both sides of the conflict.

If you want to promote your religious beliefs, do it by your personal actions such as compassion for the weak and poor, charity, love, temperance, and respect for the beliefs of others.

You'll never get to heaven by grabbing trims.

Amen.

kudzu
04-30-2018, 06:24 AM
because as Christians we read both the OT and the NT and consider both to be the word of God.......its sort of a defining characteristic of Christianity......

I think some Christians misread scripture to suit themselves... just as they have translated the Greek word to fit their ideas.

For instance .. Sargon also was cast adrift in a basket on the river long before Moses. Religions usually borrow from other mythology and change them to suit their needs.

kudzu
04-30-2018, 06:38 AM
in summary Jews aren't Christians........thank you for your diatribe....

Yet Jesus was a Jew.. and lived as a Jew.. and you claim the OT is the basis of Christianity. Why change the words?

PostmodernProphet
04-30-2018, 07:55 AM
This is where the credibility of fundamentalists suffers.. You can't change scripture.

The writers of the gospels were working overtime to make Jesus fit ancient prophesies .. and they failed.

Jesus wasn't the messiah because he rode into Jerusalem on a donkey.. EVERYBODY rode donkeys..

Jesus is enough to stand on his own... There's no reason to borrow from the Jews to convince people.

is any of that intended to refute the fact Israel is not referred to as a "suffering" servant?.....

PostmodernProphet
04-30-2018, 08:05 AM
For instance .. Sargon also was cast adrift in a basket on the river long before Moses. Religions usually borrow from other mythology and change them to suit their needs.

the claim:
https://pics.me.me/sargons-birth-placed-in-basket-set-adrift-in-river-to-16206881.png

the story:
Sargon was the illegitimate child of a high priestess.......she knew if his birth was discovered he and she would be killed.......she put him in a basket and let him float downstream.....a fisherman, a commoner, found him and raised him.......

Moses: a slave had a child and knew if he was discovered he would be killed......she put him in a basket and left him where the princess bathed, her daughter to watch over him from cover.........the princess found him and raised him as royalty......

isn't the story of Moses the exact opposite of the story of Sargon?......

PostmodernProphet
04-30-2018, 08:06 AM
Yet Jesus was a Jew.. and lived as a Jew.. and you claim the OT is the basis of Christianity. Why change the words?

the words aren't changed......you just reject them.......

kudzu
05-01-2018, 10:42 AM
the claim:
https://pics.me.me/sargons-birth-placed-in-basket-set-adrift-in-river-to-16206881.png

the story:
Sargon was the illegitimate child of a high priestess.......she knew if his birth was discovered he and she would be killed.......she put him in a basket and let him float downstream.....a fisherman, a commoner, found him and raised him.......

Moses: a slave had a child and knew if he was discovered he would be killed......she put him in a basket and left him where the princess bathed, her daughter to watch over him from cover.........the princess found him and raised him as royalty......

isn't the story of Moses the exact opposite of the story of Sargon?......

The story of Moses borrows from 2 sources.. The story of Sargon and the popular, romantic tale of Sinuhe.

kudzu
05-01-2018, 10:44 AM
the words aren't changed......you just reject them.......

The messiah prophesied by the Jews was an anointed warrior king or priest, fully human.. not divine.

PostmodernProphet
05-01-2018, 11:46 AM
The story of Moses borrows from 2 sources.. The story of Sargon and the popular, romantic tale of Sinuhe.

and yet its completely different......they apparently sucked at borrowing.......

PostmodernProphet
05-01-2018, 11:47 AM
The messiah prophesied by the Jews was an anointed warrior king or priest, fully human.. not divine.

no.....that was Guno's mistake as well.....

kudzu
05-01-2018, 11:53 AM
no.....that was Guno's mistake as well.....


The old testament is not at all murky on what Messiah means to the Jews.

The gospel writers wanted people to think Jesus was the fulfillment of ancient prophesy.. sort of like gilding the Lily.

PostmodernProphet
05-01-2018, 03:25 PM
The old testament is not at all murky on what Messiah means to the Jews. .

it does you no good to pretend it has no meaning for Christians......

kudzu
05-01-2018, 03:45 PM
it does you no good to pretend it has no meaning for Christians......


Christians changed the meaning.. The messiah the Jews expected would rebuild the Temple, drive out the Romans and restore and unite the 12 tribes.

Guno צְבִי
05-01-2018, 03:54 PM
Christians changed the meaning.. The messiah the Jews expected would rebuild the Temple, drive out the Romans and restore and unite the 12 tribes.


What is the Jewish Messiah supposed to accomplish? One of the central themes of biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. (Isaiah 2:1-4, 32:15-18, 60:15-18; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34)

The goyim counter that their dead mangod Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming. Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists.

Specifically, the Bible says he will:

Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world – on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

kudzu
05-01-2018, 04:01 PM
What is the Jewish Messiah supposed to accomplish? One of the central themes of biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. (Isaiah 2:1-4, 32:15-18, 60:15-18; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34)

The goyim counter that their dead mangod Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming. Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists.

Specifically, the Bible says he will:

Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world – on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).


Yep.. that the expectation all thru the Old Testament.....

PostmodernProphet
05-01-2018, 04:19 PM
Christians changed the meaning.. The messiah the Jews expected would rebuild the Temple, drive out the Romans and restore and unite the 12 tribes.

as I recall Jesus explained to his disciples why that was wrong......

PostmodernProphet
05-01-2018, 04:20 PM
What is the Jewish Messiah supposed to accomplish? One of the central themes of biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. (Isaiah 2:1-4, 32:15-18, 60:15-18; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34)

The goyim counter that their dead mangod Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming. Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists.

Specifically, the Bible says he will:

Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world – on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

yes that's all coming.....

Guno צְבִי
05-01-2018, 04:20 PM
Paul in the New Testament fell off a donkey when he heard a voice in his head about giving Jesus a hard time in his old job. He even saw a flash of light in his head, brighter than the sun and it was already noon when this happened! That’s pretty darn bright! When people in the Bible light up, it’s ALWAYS brighter than the sun. You’d think more people would notice. The others either heard the voice but did not see the light, or saw the light but not the voice, stood up, or all fell down depending on the story your read in the Bible. The voice in Paul’s head told him it was time to change jobs and he’d get his vision back from a guy in town if he did what he was told. Today we might say he had all the symptoms of a sunstroke or maybe even temporal lobe epilepsy where voices and flashes are pretty darn common along with an intense sense of morality that others must get in tune with.

Paul went on to write most of the New Testament and continue to tell people nothing about any real Jesus he had ever met. No stories, no miracles, no teachings, nothing about the 12 guys Jesus had to follow him, One would expect to have passed the teachings on to others. Maybe even write something about Jesus, after all there were 12 of them! But alas, they didn’t much and we have no clue what happened to that bunch. It’s all hearsay. Some say that they were merely a symbol of the twelve signs of the zodiac surrounding the central sun/son, and not real people.


In the book of Mark that Jesus mom and brothers came down to Jerusalem to get him because THEY thought he was “mad.” I don’t think they thought he was angry, but rather mentally ill. It was like he didn’t know them. Mary had evidently completely forgotten about his wonderful birth story and all those great things she kept and pondered in her heart.

lettuce bray

PostmodernProphet
05-01-2018, 04:32 PM
Paul in the New Testament fell off a donkey when he heard a voice in his head about giving Jesus a hard time in his old job. He even saw a flash of light in his head, brighter than the sun and it was already noon when this happened! That’s pretty darn bright! When people in the Bible light up, it’s ALWAYS brighter than the sun. You’d think more people would notice. The others either heard the voice but did not see the light, or saw the light but not the voice, stood up, or all fell down depending on the story your read in the Bible. The voice in Paul’s head told him it was time to change jobs and he’d get his vision back from a guy in town if he did what he was told. Today we might say he had all the symptoms of a sunstroke or maybe even temporal lobe epilepsy where voices and flashes are pretty darn common along with an intense sense of morality that others must get in tune with.

Paul went on to write most of the New Testament and continue to tell people nothing about any real Jesus he had ever met. No stories, no miracles, no teachings, nothing about the 12 guys Jesus had to follow him, One would expect to have passed the teachings on to others. Maybe even write something about Jesus, after all there were 12 of them! But alas, they didn’t much and we have no clue what happened to that bunch. It’s all hearsay. Some say that they were merely a symbol of the twelve signs of the zodiac surrounding the central sun/son, and not real people.


In the book of Mark that Jesus mom and brothers came down to Jerusalem to get him because THEY thought he was “mad.” I don’t think they thought he was angry, but rather mentally ill. It was like he didn’t know them. Mary had evidently completely forgotten about his wonderful birth story and all those great things she kept and pondered in her heart.

lettuce bray

why are you wasting your time?.....

Guno צְבִי
05-01-2018, 04:34 PM
What’s the difference between a Bible Prophet or Christian fundamentalist and a paranoid schizophrenic? Well, one hears voices in their head, has a heightened moral code, is judgmental yet can be very deceptive and manipulative, has delusions of being on a mission from God, sees things that no one else present sees, hears things that one else hears, sees lights in his head, is the center of the universe and has special knowledge that must be kept secret until the right time an then can only be understood as explained by the one. The other, of course, is a paranoid schizophrenic

PostmodernProphet
05-01-2018, 05:08 PM
/yawn.....

kudzu
05-01-2018, 05:12 PM
as I recall Jesus explained to his disciples why that was wrong......

So Jesus said the torah was wrong?

Perhaps the Bible isn't the inspired word of God if it is wrong in so many places.. with anachronisms, contradictions, screwed up locations and all.

PostmodernProphet
05-01-2018, 06:37 PM
So Jesus said the torah was wrong?

no.....he told the Pharisees, the Sanhedrin, and the Jewish people who thought the Torah was promising them an earthly kingdom that they were wrong.......that's what its all about, you know.....


Perhaps the Bible isn't the inspired word of God if it is wrong in so many places.. with anachronisms, contradictions, screwed up locations and all.

but the Bible isn't wrong........you are.......

kudzu
05-03-2018, 11:01 AM
no.....he told the Pharisees, the Sanhedrin, and the Jewish people who thought the Torah was promising them an earthly kingdom that they were wrong.......that's what its all about, you know.....



but the Bible isn't wrong........you are.......

So are you saying that God didn't write the Torah?

PostmodernProphet
05-03-2018, 11:19 AM
So are you saying that God didn't write the Torah?

Sure, rabbi....he wrote it in blood on your forehead, right?....

kudzu
05-03-2018, 11:24 AM
Sure, rabbi....he wrote it in blood on your forehead, right?....

So who wrote the Pentateuch if it isn't the inerrant, inspired word of God?

PostmodernProphet
05-03-2018, 03:07 PM
So who wrote the Pentateuch if it isn't the inerrant, inspired word of God?

who says it isn't the inspired word of God.....I just pointed out he didn't write it on a stone or use a pen dipped in your blood......

kudzu
05-12-2018, 01:07 PM
who says it isn't the inspired word of God.....I just pointed out he didn't write it on a stone or use a pen dipped in your blood......

So why so many errors and contradictions?

Boris The Animal
05-19-2018, 07:49 AM
So why so many errors and contradictions?

You forget that there were over 26 authors of the books of the bible, so there were different perspectives. But all had the same inspiration from the Spirit of God. He uses flawed, feeble human beings for His Glory. And sinful man is incapable of wrapping his finite mind around it.

Oracle Of JPP 714
05-19-2018, 07:52 AM
The urban dictionary definition defines it the most best.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Christian

kudzu
05-19-2018, 07:53 AM
You forget that there were over 26 authors of the books of the bible, so there were different perspectives. But all had the same inspiration from the Spirit of God. He uses flawed, feeble human beings for His Glory. And sinful man is incapable of wrapping his finite mind around it.


Hammer and sickle is the Soviet flag.

There were far more than 26 authors.

Boris The Animal
10-14-2018, 02:27 PM
Christians changed the meaning.. The messiah the Jews expected would rebuild the Temple, drive out the Romans and restore and unite the 12 tribes.

What you refer to is the Antichrist, or the rider of the White Horse as John described him in Revelation.

Guno צְבִי
10-14-2018, 02:42 PM
What you refer to is the Antichrist, or the rider of the White Horse as John described him in Revelation.

Religious Beliefs: Divine Revelations or Mental Disorder?
One man’s ‘crazy talk’ is another’s manifestation of the divine.

https://cdn.psychologytoday.com/sites/default/files/styles/article-inline-half/public/blogs/2439/2011/04/59310-52518.jpg?itok=fy0-CktP

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/homo-consumericus/201104/religious-beliefs-divine-revelations-or-mental-disorder


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsC4kf6x_Q0

kudzu
10-14-2018, 02:46 PM
You forget that there were over 26 authors of the books of the bible, so there were different perspectives. But all had the same inspiration from the Spirit of God. He uses flawed, feeble human beings for His Glory. And sinful man is incapable of wrapping his finite mind around it.

My God... there were far more than 26 authors.

kudzu
10-14-2018, 02:48 PM
What you refer to is the Antichrist, or the rider of the White Horse as John described him in Revelation.

Scofield?

The rider of the white horse is Jesus.

Guno צְבִי
10-14-2018, 02:50 PM
Scofield?

The rider of the white horse is Jesus.

the baby jesus rides a white horse? did he graduated from riding a donkey?

Boris The Animal
10-14-2018, 02:54 PM
Scofield?

The rider of the white horse is Jesus.

Nope. The Rider of the white horse carries a bow with no arrows. He brings about a world peace, but you overlook the red, black, and pale horsemen. That is not Christ. He returns with His Sword and His armies to slaughter the world's armies at Armageddon.

Boris The Animal
10-14-2018, 02:56 PM
The problem with the misinformed Jew is they long for a MILITANT Messiah who will bring about a "peace" with the Arabs. Messianic Jews and Christians know that the Messiah had to suffer and die for the sins of mankind before establishing His Kingdom.

kudzu
10-14-2018, 04:22 PM
Nope. The Rider of the white horse carries a bow with no arrows. He brings about a world peace, but you overlook the red, black, and pale horsemen. That is not Christ. He returns with His Sword and His armies to slaughter the world's armies at Armageddon.

He conquers with the "sword" which is the "truth".. Its spiritual not a real battle.

kudzu
10-14-2018, 04:24 PM
the baby jesus rides a white horse? did he graduated from riding a donkey?

Apocalyptic literature was very popular for about 300 years. Revelation was a Jewish writing that was altered ..

Revelation of John, the original Jewish version
Apocalypse composition, dating & authorship.

http://historical-jesus.info/rjohn.html

Guno צְבִי
10-14-2018, 06:44 PM
The problem with the misinformed Jew is they long for a MILITANT Messiah who will bring about a "peace" with the Arabs. Messianic Jews and Christians know that the Messiah had to suffer and die for the sins of mankind before establishing His Kingdom.

Messianic Jews lol, funded by the Baptist goyim, they are considered dead to the Jewish community they are now goyim. A Jew will be accepted by the Jewish community if he says he is an atheist, not so if he becomes a goyim

Boris The Animal
10-14-2018, 06:52 PM
He conquers with the "sword" which is the "truth".. Its spiritual not a real battle.

Actually, it will be a real battle. Once the third temple is built and the church raptured, there will be seven years of literal hell on earth.

Boris The Animal
10-14-2018, 06:54 PM
Messianic Jews lol, funded by the Baptist goyim, they are considered dead to the Jewish community they are now goyim. A Jew will be accepted by the Jewish community if he says he is an atheist, not so if he becomes a goyim

You do realize, Yeshua, who is of the tribe of Judah, fulfilled ALL 39 OT prophecies concerning His first advent. Since you are considered a Sadducee, He had the perfect terminology for you. Viper and Hypocrite!

Boris The Animal
10-14-2018, 06:58 PM
OK, then 'splain this. When at some point a charismatic leader arises (remember the "little horn" in King Nebuchadnezzar's dream?) and brings about this Earthly utopia you pine for, will you follow him? And of this RFID technology that would be ordered for ALL citizens of the world, would you take it?

Guno צְבִי
10-14-2018, 06:59 PM
You do realize, Yeshua, who is of the tribe of Judah, fulfilled ALL 39 OT prophecies concerning His first advent. Since you are considered a Sadducee, He had the perfect terminology for you. Viper and Hypocrite!

nope educate yourself


https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge?filter-search=&filter-types=article&filter-document-type=&filter-topics=&filter-featured=&filter-sort=&filter-sort-order=


Why Jews Don't Believe In Jesus

http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48892792.html

Boris The Animal
10-14-2018, 07:03 PM
nope educate yourself


https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge?filter-search=&filter-types=article&filter-document-type=&filter-topics=&filter-featured=&filter-sort=&filter-sort-order=


Why Jews Don't Believe In Jesus

http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48892792.html

They didn't believe the Prophets either
Therefore they will not be accepted by G-d.

kudzu
10-15-2018, 03:58 AM
Actually, it will be a real battle. Once the third temple is built and the church raptured, there will be seven years of literal hell on earth.

Bad theology.

Revelation says there is NO Temple..

The Tribulation was over when Masada fell.. Consider for a moment that Jesus said all you have to do to escape the tribulation is flee to the mountains.

iolo
10-15-2018, 04:48 AM
The sensible definition, based on the behaviour of the early Church, is one who ceases to care about making a pile and shares his goods - a socialist, in fact.

PostmodernProphet
10-15-2018, 05:45 AM
He conquers with the "sword" which is the "truth".. Its spiritual not a real battle.

and truth is the sword that atheists deny.....

PostmodernProphet
10-15-2018, 05:48 AM
nope educate yourself


https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge?filter-search=&filter-types=article&filter-document-type=&filter-topics=&filter-featured=&filter-sort=&filter-sort-order=


Why Jews Don't Believe In Jesus

http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48892792.html

why should we educate ourselves about your beliefs when you spread lies about ours.....

kudzu
10-15-2018, 06:13 AM
Decapitated 2,000-year-old skeletons unearthed at downtown ...




Decapitated 2,000-year-old Skeletons Unearthed at Downtown Jerusalem Dig
Haaretz.com

1 day ago · Decapitated 2,000-year-old Skeletons Unearthed at Downtown Jerusalem Dig . ... Researchers have established that most of them are the remains of women and children who belonged to the separatist Pharisee community and had been decapitated...


https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/.premium-decapitated-2-000-year-old-skeletons-unearthed-at-jerusalem-dig-1.6553289

Adolf_Twitler
10-15-2018, 06:20 AM
That's not what the Bible says. A Christian is one who has given control of their life to God.

Correction- A Christian is one who has given control of their life to Donald Trump!

PostmodernProphet
10-15-2018, 08:44 AM
Decapitated 2,000-year-old skeletons unearthed at downtown ...




Decapitated 2,000-year-old Skeletons Unearthed at Downtown Jerusalem Dig
Haaretz.com

1 day ago · Decapitated 2,000-year-old Skeletons Unearthed at Downtown Jerusalem Dig . ... Researchers have established that most of them are the remains of women and children who belonged to the separatist Pharisee community and had been decapitated...


https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/.premium-decapitated-2-000-year-old-skeletons-unearthed-at-jerusalem-dig-1.6553289

thanks for submitting your daily quota of irrelevant posts.....

PostmodernProphet
10-15-2018, 08:44 AM
they don't come any dumber than me

....

Adolf_Twitler
10-15-2018, 09:06 AM
To post modern asshole!

You are not quoting me asshole!

You are just making shit up- as always.

The truth is, no one is more of an asshole than you!

Marquezine
11-17-2018, 08:04 AM
Interesting reflection, even so I still can not differentiate why Christianity can be "better" or more representative than any of the other religions.

iolo
11-17-2018, 08:12 AM
I must say that I find the Sermon on the Mount considerably more admirable than anything ranted by the Anti-Christ holy rollers in the USA.

kudzu
11-17-2018, 08:19 AM
You do realize, Yeshua, who is of the tribe of Judah, fulfilled ALL 39 OT prophecies concerning His first advent. Since you are considered a Sadducee, He had the perfect terminology for you. Viper and Hypocrite!

Jeez.. Both Jesus and John the Baptist referred to Pharisees as vipers.

Boris The Animal
11-17-2018, 03:26 PM
Jeez.. Both Jesus and John the Baptist referred to Pharisees as vipers.

Correct. Guano is just that.

kudzu
11-17-2018, 03:28 PM
Correct. Guano is just that.

You claimed the Saducees were vipers.

Guno צְבִי
11-17-2018, 03:30 PM
You do realize, Yeshua, who is of the tribe of Judah, fulfilled ALL 39 OT prophecies concerning His first advent. Since you are considered a Sadducee, He had the perfect terminology for you. Viper and Hypocrite!

lol ignorant goyim



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSDytNu73Hg

Guno צְבִי
11-17-2018, 03:34 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wiawe2Pyzws

Guno צְבִי
11-17-2018, 03:36 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiFixVjwAYk

Boris The Animal
11-17-2018, 04:46 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiFixVjwAYk

Simple answer, because Jesus is YHWH, He holds His chosen people into account for their unbelief. The prophets have stated ad infinitum how Messiah should come. The hardness of the Jewish heart refuses to accept that.

PostmodernProphet
11-17-2018, 05:00 PM
You claimed the Saducees were vipers.

weren't they.....

Fentoine Lum
11-17-2018, 05:05 PM
What defines a Christian?

Nothing. One simply declares him/herself as such and that's it.

Guno צְבִי
11-17-2018, 06:01 PM
Simple answer, because Jesus is YHWH, He holds His chosen people into account for their unbelief. The prophets have stated ad infinitum how Messiah should come. The hardness of the Jewish heart refuses to accept that.

https://wideawakegentile.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/seriousy-goyim.jpg

that is what the dumb goyim believe and was drilled into your skull

you christer goyim are idolators


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxm26c4rklk

Guno צְבִי
11-17-2018, 06:11 PM
for boris the dumb goyim


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZW-NKGXFGg

Boris The Animal
11-17-2018, 06:21 PM
No, you conveniently forget that Yeshua was a Jew Himself. Of the tribe of Judah (Daniel called Messiah the Lion of the Tribe).

kudzu
11-17-2018, 09:28 PM
Simple answer, because Jesus is YHWH, He holds His chosen people into account for their unbelief. The prophets have stated ad infinitum how Messiah should come. The hardness of the Jewish heart refuses to accept that.


The prophets said the Messiah would be an anointed warrior king like David. Christians don't have to be ignorant or reject education.

Boris The Animal
11-17-2018, 09:39 PM
The prophets said the Messiah would be an anointed warrior king like David. Christians don't have to be ignorant or reject education.

But they also said He was to be a suffering Savior first.

kudzu
11-17-2018, 09:44 PM
But they also said He was to be a suffering Savior first.

Sorry.. you should actually read your Bible.. The Suffering Servant is Israel.

NiftyNiblick
11-17-2018, 09:48 PM
In these fora, I see misconceptions all the time about what makes a "good" Christian. Leftists/Liberals like to equate government welfare largess as fulfilling the idea of "feeding the poor", etc. rather than doing it out of their OWN resources, as it should be. But I submit the BIBLICAL definition of a Christian, as outlined throughout Scripture, is acknowledging there is absolutely zero good in mankind. Romans Chapter 3:9-20 talks about the unrighteousness of man, and that no good can ever earn him Heaven, nor a relationship with God. "What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. As it is written:

'There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.'" (NIV)

So basically, in God's economy because of our sin, we have zero chance at attaining Heaven, even though we might seem "good" or "moral", it is still not enough!
So what EXACTLY is the solution? The Cross! Christ's death on the cross is God's way to establish the relationship between Himself and mankind. This was the full payment for the penalty of our sins; past, present, and future. "As far as the East is from the West, I will remember your sins no more", says the Lord of Hosts. Does this give us license to sin? No, but God's forgiveness does give us true freedom in Him. This is the right definition of a Christian. The works we do come as a result of our salvation and the purpose is to bring others to the Cross.

What a waste of fucking bandwidth.

PostmodernProphet
11-18-2018, 06:56 AM
Christians don't have to be ignorant or reject education.

if they did, wouldn't they become atheists like you did when you rejected your education and chose ignorance....

PostmodernProphet
11-18-2018, 06:59 AM
Sorry.. you should actually read your Bible.. The Suffering Servant is Israel.

in all the Bibles I've ever seen it was Jesus.......are you using the New Amplified Apostates translation?.....

kudzu
11-18-2018, 07:28 AM
if they did, wouldn't they become atheists like you did when you rejected your education and chose ignorance....

Nope.. You don't know much about the Bible or how Judaism evolved or about first century history. If you concentrate on the epic myths, you miss the message.

PostmodernProphet
11-18-2018, 07:33 AM
Nope.. You don't know much about the Bible or how Judaism evolved or about first century history. If you concentrate on the epic myths, you miss the message.

lol.....the only message you took from the bible was "there is no god"......

kudzu
11-18-2018, 07:34 AM
in all the Bibles I've ever seen it was Jesus.......are you using the New Amplified Apostates translation?.....

Read the whole Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53..

The Suffering Servant is not identified as Jesus .. and all thru the OT Israel is the servant of God.. Further, Jesus was NOT despised of men.

Read all of the Servant Song.

The redemption of God’s people is the central theme in the preceding verse (52:12) where the “you” signifies the Jewish people who are sheltered and delivered by God. Moreover, the “afflicted barren woman” in the following chapter is protected and saved by God, and is also universally recognized as the nation of Israel2 (54:1).

kudzu
11-18-2018, 07:36 AM
lol.....the only message you took from the bible was "there is no god"......

That's your problem.. You think the children's fairly tales are literal history and science and to look at their meaning is to say "there is no God".

Its didactic literature.. a teaching narrative for Bronze Age people.

PostmodernProphet
11-18-2018, 07:48 AM
Read the whole Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53..

The Suffering Servant is not identified as Jesus .. and all thru the OT Israel is the servant of God.. Further, Jesus was NOT despised of men.

sure they crucified him because they loved him so much.....

https://www.ncronline.org/blogs/spiritual-reflections/suffering-servant

https://www.gotquestions.org/suffering-servant-Isaiah-53.html


Unfortunately, modern Rabbis of Judaism believe that the “Suffering Servant” of Isaiah 53 refers perhaps to Israel, or to Isaiah himself, or even Moses or another of the Jewish prophets. But Isaiah is clear - he speaks of the Messiah, as many ancient rabbis concluded.

kudzu
11-18-2018, 08:19 AM
sure they crucified him because they loved him so much.....

https://www.ncronline.org/blogs/spiritual-reflections/suffering-servant

https://www.gotquestions.org/suffering-servant-Isaiah-53.html


By all accounts the people loved Jesus and followed him to hear him preach.

The Jews borrowed from Babylon, Egypt and the Ugarit and changed their teachings.. Then Christians changed Jewish teachings and Muslims changed Christian teachings... NONE of it is original. Read the Servant Song.. Israel is the "suffering servant" all thru the OT.

Boris The Animal
11-18-2018, 06:42 PM
By all accounts the people loved Jesus and followed him to hear him preach.

The Jews borrowed from Babylon, Egypt and the Ugarit and changed their teachings.. Then Christians changed Jewish teachings and Muslims changed Christian teachings... NONE of it is original. Read the Servant Song.. Israel is the "suffering servant" all thru the OT.

Israel was judged repeatedly by God because she would not listen to the Prophets. Jesus is the suffering servant. Crucified to redeem mankind from the penalty of sin.

kudzu
11-18-2018, 06:55 PM
Israel was judged repeatedly by God because she would not listen to the Prophets. Jesus is the suffering servant. Crucified to redeem mankind from the penalty of sin.

Sorry.. the Servant Song makes it perfectly clear that Israel is the suffering servant. Christians changed it just like Jews changed the myths from Babylon and the North Coast Canaanites.

Guno צְבִי
11-18-2018, 07:53 PM
if they did, wouldn't they become atheists like you did when you rejected your education and chose ignorance....

http://www.picshag.com/pics/092009/iq-and-religion-big.jpg

Guno צְבִי
11-18-2018, 07:56 PM
Israel was judged repeatedly by God because she would not listen to the Prophets. Jesus is the suffering servant. Crucified to redeem mankind from the penalty of sin.

how ignorant you are goyim, telling jews what their scriptures says

Isaiah 53

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/isaiah-53/



Isaiah 53 and the “Suffering Servant.”

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/isaiah-53-and-the-suffering-servant/

kudzu
11-18-2018, 08:02 PM
in all the Bibles I've ever seen it was Jesus.......are you using the New Amplified Apostates translation?.....

No.. KJV

The Servant songs (also called the Servant poems or the Songs of the Suffering Servant) are four songs in the Book of Isaiah in the Hebrew Bible, which include Isaiah 42:1-4; Isaiah 49:1-6; Isaiah 50:4-7; and Isaiah 52:13-53:12.

kudzu
11-18-2018, 08:07 PM
"The theme of Isaiah is jubilation, a song of celebration at the imminent end of the Babylonian Captivity"...

Take note of the historical context in which God's Suffering Servant appears, particularly because it speaks in the past tense. The Jewish nation has borne unspeakable injustices, under Assyria, Babylonia.

PostmodernProphet
11-19-2018, 06:09 AM
http://www.picshag.com/pics/092009/iq-and-religion-big.jpg

oh look.....someone gave an atheist crayons....

PostmodernProphet
11-19-2018, 06:14 AM
No.. KJV

The Servant songs (also called the Servant poems or the Songs of the Suffering Servant) are four songs in the Book of Isaiah in the Hebrew Bible, which include Isaiah 42:1-4; Isaiah 49:1-6; Isaiah 50:4-7; and Isaiah 52:13-53:12.
so its just your errors in interpretation.......happens to atheists everywhere.....

iolo
11-19-2018, 06:21 AM
The key point about Christians is that only a tiny minority are Americans. McCarthy banned 'em, I believe.

PostmodernProphet
11-19-2018, 06:27 AM
No.. KJV

The Servant songs (also called the Servant poems or the Songs of the Suffering Servant) are four songs in the Book of Isaiah in the Hebrew Bible, which include Isaiah 42:1-4; Isaiah 49:1-6; Isaiah 50:4-7; and Isaiah 52:13-53:12.
any particular reason you avoided Isaiah 53?.....you know....the part that says the suffering servant will die to save us from our transgressions?.....did Israel do that too?.....

kudzu
11-19-2018, 07:46 AM
any particular reason you avoided Isaiah 53?.....you know....the part that says the suffering servant will die to save us from our transgressions?.....did Israel do that too?.....


You really do have a reading problem.

Here's what I wrote and you answered.

No.. KJV

The Servant songs (also called the Servant poems or the Songs of the Suffering Servant) are four songs in the Book of Isaiah in the Hebrew Bible, which include Isaiah 42:1-4; Isaiah 49:1-6; Isaiah 50:4-7; and Isaiah 52:13-53:12.

PostmodernProphet
11-19-2018, 08:50 AM
You really do have a reading problem.
Here's what I wrote and you answered.



and here's what I wrote and you refuse to answer.....


the part that says the suffering servant will die to save us from our transgressions?.....did Israel do that too?.....

kudzu
11-20-2018, 11:27 AM
and here's what I wrote and you refuse to answer.....

Isaiah described the nation of Israel as God's servant who at times suffered because of its relationship to God but would one day be vindicated, one day be restored from captivity.

PostmodernProphet
11-20-2018, 02:46 PM
Isaiah described the nation of Israel as God's servant who at times suffered because of its relationship to God but would one day be vindicated, one day be restored from captivity.

third time.....Isaiah said the suffering servant died to save us from our transgressions......when did the nation of Israel die for me?.......

kudzu
11-20-2018, 02:54 PM
third time.....Isaiah said the suffering servant died to save us from our transgressions......when did the nation of Israel die for me?.......

Isaiah was talking about the end of the Babylonian exile.. The exiles had been servants in Babylon and were very oppressed.

look at verses 1 and 2 of Isaiah 40.

"Comfort, O comfort My people," says your God.
"Speak kindly to Jerusalem; And call out to her, that her warfare has ended,
[Though she was still in servitude to the Babylonian empire.]
That her iniquity has been removed,
That she has received of the Lord's hand Double for all her sins.

This is the first word of comfort that Isaiah addresses to his people. You have been forgiven of all your sins. It was the sins of Judah that drove her into exile, and Isaiah says those sins have been forgiven.

Fentoine Lum
11-20-2018, 02:57 PM
so its just your errors in interpretation.......happens to atheists everywhere.....

Happens to hominids with previously determined frenetic rabid frothy-mouthed belief systems.