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Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 10:33 AM
With this post, I’m probably going to veer away from the political positions of some of the people with whom I have been shoulder to shoulder up until now. My feelings about capital punishment are closer to the American conservative position than to the positions of people more to the left.

I see nothing significantly wrong or unethical about capital punishment…and see it to be significantly more ethical than most of what is considered its alternative.

I certainly think capital punishment is less cruel and unusual than a sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole. But let me expand on that thought, because my regard of this area of the issue goes beyond that...to considerations many people find uncomfortable or objectionable.

It my personal opinion that the maximum sentence for ANY crime…should be ten year or less. Anything that requires imprisonment for more than ten years…should be a capital offense.

I think we should perform executions in as humane a way as possible…no matter the circumstances that resulted in a death sentence. If the government has to set up labs to manufacture the drugs necessary for a humane execution by lethal injection…we should do it.

Any thoughts?

iolo
02-26-2018, 10:45 AM
With this post, I’m probably going to veer away from the political positions of some of the people with whom I have been shoulder to shoulder up until now. My feelings about capital punishment are closer to the American conservative position than to the positions of people more to the left.

I see nothing significantly wrong or unethical about capital punishment…and see it to be significantly more ethical than most of what is considered its alternative.

I certainly think capital punishment is less cruel and unusual than a sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole. But let me expand on that thought, because my regard of this area of the issue goes beyond that...to considerations many people find uncomfortable or objectionable.

It my personal opinion that the maximum sentence for ANY crime…should be ten year or less. Anything that requires imprisonment for more than ten years…should be a capital offense.

I think we should perform executions in as humane a way as possible…no matter the circumstances that resulted in a death sentence. If the government has to set up labs to manufacture the drugs necessary for a humane execution by lethal injection…we should do it.

Any thoughts? If you have a perfect justice system not influenced by racism and comparative wealth, education and the like. Do you have such a system? Have you confidence in the ability of your judges?

evince
02-26-2018, 10:46 AM
if you want the REAL CONSERVATIVE position on this one its for no death penalty.


MONEY


it costs less to house someone for life than it is to oft them


because we have a wonderful constitution that allows reasonable appeals


those court costs make it more expensive per prisoner.


so if you want the perp to NOT COST THE PEOPLE MORE COSTS


lock them away for life

also encourage them to be organ donors

no perks for it


no forcing it


just keep offering it to them all the time


imagine how you might feel if you are a victim of the perp and you realize a mother of two has her life saved by an organ like that ?

evince
02-26-2018, 10:47 AM
If you have a perfect justice system not influenced by racism and comparative wealth, education and the like. Do you have such a system? Have you confidence in the ability of your judges?

yes that one is the one I most site


you cant ever make the mistake if NO ONE if oft.


but there is money and things like blood and organs

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 10:50 AM
If you have a perfect justice system not influenced by racism and comparative wealth, education and the like. Do you have such a system? Have you confidence in the ability of your judges?

No system is perfect. EVERY judge has biases...or at least I hope so, because every intelligent individual has biases.

No matter what...my personal preference would be that no one ever languish in prison for longer than 10 years...which itself seems like too long.

I expect that judges will do the best job they can...as will teachers, mechanics, police officers, military personnel, and all the rest of humanity.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 10:51 AM
if you want the REAL CONSERVATIVE position on this one its for no death penalty.


MONEY


it costs less to house someone for life than it is to oft them


because we have a wonderful constitution that allows reasonable appeals


those court costs make it more expensive per prisoner.


so if you want the perp to NOT COST THE PEOPLE MORE COSTS


lock them away for life

also encourage them to be organ donors

no perks for it


no forcing it


just keep offering it to them all the time


imagine how you might feel if you are a victim of the perp and you realize a mother of two has her life saved by an organ like that ?

Cost should not be factored in.

Locking someone away for life is barbaric.

evince
02-26-2018, 10:54 AM
and killing them isn't


how about the cavot that the prisoner can request to die at any point

UNLESS the victims loved ones other wise chose at sentancing

evince
02-26-2018, 10:56 AM
Oh and cost is a burden on the people

its not just money


its forcing the people to pay which increases the effect of the perps crime

iolo
02-26-2018, 11:02 AM
No system is perfect. EVERY judge has biases...or at least I hope so, because every intelligent individual has biases.

No matter what...my personal preference would be that no one ever languish in prison for longer than 10 years...which itself seems like too long.

I expect that judges will do the best job they can...as will teachers, mechanics, police officers, military personnel, and all the rest of humanity.

No - nothing is perfect, and we've had too many instances here of people being hanged to please prejudice to want to support such nonsense. If Americans lack conscieces, we don't.

archives
02-26-2018, 11:05 AM
Capital punishment at best serves as a minimal deterrent, most murders are spontaneous, and in those cases few are thinking about deterrentence.

Ralph
02-26-2018, 11:09 AM
The "Death Penalty" should at all times be an option held by those who govern. It should be exercised anytime innocent blood is spilled in a premeditated fashion. There can be no truly civilized society without the death penalty. As no government should bear the sword "IN VAIN" and only threaten to engage the ultimate form of justice. When one is found guilty, not on circumstantial evidence, but on the eyewitness testimony of 3 or more people who witnessed the event charged, or when the defendant pledges guilty......the sentence should be carried out immediately. Only the cases where guilt is concluded based upon circumstantial findings should the accused be allowed the possibility of appeal.

I am of the opinion that the United States penal institutions could save more than enough money to support the sentences of any criminal being retained/imprisoned by the system. How? Its the same ole story thats been around since the beginning of civilization. Its Called indentured servitude......use all this indentured labor instead of simply housing, feeding, and providing healthcare for the length of any sentence. By any other name....SLAVERY is SLAVERY and slavery can and is justified in certain circumstances...i.e., like the penal system. None of those held by the system are there by free will, thus they are indentured to the state for "x" amount of time. Put that labor to work doing good instead of simply burning up tax payer money....the extra cost of security would be offset by the free labor when properly managed. One must consider the fact that the vast majority are there for engaging in crimes that are not MURDER (the spilling of innocent).....if those truly guilty of murder would be placed to death immediately instead of being allowed to take decades to burn through all the superfluous appeals.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 11:20 AM
No - nothing is perfect, and we've had too many instances here of people being hanged to please prejudice to want to support such nonsense. If Americans lack conscieces, we don't.

Fine. If you think locking someone away for the entire of his/her life makes sense...champion it.

I disagree.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 11:22 AM
Capital punishment at best serves as a minimal deterrent, most murders are spontaneous, and in those cases few are thinking about deterrentence.

I'm not interested in deterrence...although I did see a statistic on the issue once that I suppose to be correct. It asserted:

No one executed for murder has ever murdered again.

Who knows.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 11:23 AM
The "Death Penalty" should at all times be an option held by those who govern. It should be exercised anytime innocent blood is spilled in a premeditated fashion. There can be no truly civilized society without the death penalty. As no government should bear the sword "IN VAIN" and only threaten to engage the ultimate form of justice. When one is found guilty, not on circumstantial evidence, but on the eyewitness testimony of 3 or more people who witnessed the event charged, or when the defendant pledges guilty......the sentence should be carried out immediately. Only the cases where guilt is concluded based upon circumstantial findings should the accused be allowed the possibility of appeal.

I am of the opinion that the United States penal institutions could save more than enough money to support the sentences of any criminal being retained/imprisoned by the system. How? Its the same ole story thats been around since the beginning of civilization. Its Called indentured servitude......use all this indentured labor instead of simply housing, feeding, and providing healthcare for the length of any sentence. By any other name....SLAVERY is SLAVERY and slavery can and is justified in certain circumstances...i.e., like the penal system. None of those held by the system are there by free will, thus they are indentured to the state for "x" amount of time. Put that labor to work doing good instead of simply burning up tax payer money....the extra cost of security would be offset by the free labor when properly managed. One must consider the fact that the vast majority are there for engaging in crimes that are not MURDER (the spilling of innocent).....if those truly guilty of murder would be placed to death immediately instead of being allowed to take decades to burn through all the superfluous appeals.

Thank you for that, Ralph...

...although I wish you were not on my side on this.

Ralph
02-26-2018, 11:25 AM
Thank you for that, Ralph...

...although I wish you were not on my side on this.

Truth...takes no sides, its the same for anyone that invokes it. ;) A blind hog...acorn....yada, yada, yada.........even a broken clock tells the truth at least 2x a day.

Boris The Animal
02-26-2018, 11:26 AM
Here's the thing. I don't look at the DP as a "general" issue but on a case by case basis. the FL shooter, for example is a prime candidate for a Capital murder charge.

iolo
02-26-2018, 11:26 AM
Fine. If you think locking someone away for the entire of his/her life makes sense...champion it.

I disagree.

It scarcely ever is really 'life', and if an effective reason for appeal comes up, justice is done. Look up some of the Irish people charged when the US was paying for Provisional terrorism in England and causing all sorts of people to be grabbed and ask how you'd feel if they'd been killed!

Ralph
02-26-2018, 11:29 AM
Here's the thing. I don't look at the DP as a "general" issue but on a case by case basis. the FL shooter, for example is a prime candidate for a Capital murder charge.

A public hanging on the steps of the local courthouse would grant closure to many of the parents. :thumbsup: But it will most likely never happen anytime soon...why? The liberal policies of the court, first will come the plea of insanity, then the appeals begin. Maybe, just maybe....sometime in the next 3 decades....JUSTICE MIGHT BE SERVED.

Boris The Animal
02-26-2018, 11:30 AM
A public hanging on the steps of the local courthouse would grant closure to many of the parents. :thumbsup:

That or import, Dr. Guillotine's device from France ;)

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 11:33 AM
Here's the thing. I don't look at the DP as a "general" issue but on a case by case basis. the FL shooter, for example is a prime candidate for a Capital murder charge.

Yup...I agree.

Ralph
02-26-2018, 11:34 AM
That or import, Dr. Guillotine's device from France ;)

Yep.....the NEXT video game gun wielding puppet of the system might think twice before going hunting for innocent sheep.....loaded for bear.

Boris The Animal
02-26-2018, 11:37 AM
Yup...I agree.

Case in point. Back in 1997, before the pantywaists in the NY Appellate Court put the kibosh on the death penalty here, we had the first DP case here in Erie County. A scumbag shot and killed BPD Officer Charles "Skip" McDougald while in the commission of a robbery. The jury voted life without parole in that case.

Ralph
02-26-2018, 11:40 AM
Idea: The next time something like this happens and the criminal is taken alive. Equipment them with a weapon and all the ammo he can carry....fly his/her ass to a combat zone and drop them off in the middle of a an actual combat shit storm....let him play the game until its final conclusion. But...I suppose making an asshole like this actually have to fire at someone that is firing back (unlike the Broward County PD)...would be considered unusual punishment.

evince
02-26-2018, 01:11 PM
The "Death Penalty" should at all times be an option held by those who govern. It should be exercised anytime innocent blood is spilled in a premeditated fashion. There can be no truly civilized society without the death penalty. As no government should bear the sword "IN VAIN" and only threaten to engage the ultimate form of justice. When one is found guilty, not on circumstantial evidence, but on the eyewitness testimony of 3 or more people who witnessed the event charged, or when the defendant pledges guilty......the sentence should be carried out immediately. Only the cases where guilt is concluded based upon circumstantial findings should the accused be allowed the possibility of appeal.

I am of the opinion that the United States penal institutions could save more than enough money to support the sentences of any criminal being retained/imprisoned by the system. How? Its the same ole story thats been around since the beginning of civilization. Its Called indentured servitude......use all this indentured labor instead of simply housing, feeding, and providing healthcare for the length of any sentence. By any other name....SLAVERY is SLAVERY and slavery can and is justified in certain circumstances...i.e., like the penal system. None of those held by the system are there by free will, thus they are indentured to the state for "x" amount of time. Put that labor to work doing good instead of simply burning up tax payer money....the extra cost of security would be offset by the free labor when properly managed. One must consider the fact that the vast majority are there for engaging in crimes that are not MURDER (the spilling of innocent).....if those truly guilty of murder would be placed to death immediately instead of being allowed to take decades to burn through all the superfluous appeals.

and you give a monetary reason to incarcerate people.


you can ask people to work

YOU CAN NOT FORCE THEM


your idea is horrible

evince
02-26-2018, 01:14 PM
this is not about how you guys FEEL

this is about justice and a Democratic country

evince
02-26-2018, 01:15 PM
NO ONE should make money off of the imprisonment of Americans

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 03:31 PM
The Death Penalty needs to used in cases where there is no doubt.
Whether it be numerous eye witnesses, video, irrefutable evidence, etc.

Set up another Supreme Court that only handles Death Penalty cases and give the defense 6 months to bring forth their reasons.

Now to add this caveat:
If someone is put to death and it's later discovered that the witnesses outright lied, the Prosecutor ignored facts, evidence was planted, etc; then those involved receive a Death Penalty with no appeals.

domer76
02-26-2018, 04:25 PM
With this post, I’m probably going to veer away from the political positions of some of the people with whom I have been shoulder to shoulder up until now. My feelings about capital punishment are closer to the American conservative position than to the positions of people more to the left.

I see nothing significantly wrong or unethical about capital punishment…and see it to be significantly more ethical than most of what is considered its alternative.

I certainly think capital punishment is less cruel and unusual than a sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole. But let me expand on that thought, because my regard of this area of the issue goes beyond that...to considerations many people find uncomfortable or objectionable.

It my personal opinion that the maximum sentence for ANY crime…should be ten year or less. Anything that requires imprisonment for more than ten years…should be a capital offense.

I think we should perform executions in as humane a way as possible…no matter the circumstances that resulted in a death sentence. If the government has to set up labs to manufacture the drugs necessary for a humane execution by lethal injection…we should do it.

Any thoughts?

What are your thoughts on putting innocent people to death?

I already see your thoughts that a human life is worth about 10 years of housing costs.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 04:31 PM
What are your thoughts on putting innocent people to death?

I don't think innocent people should be put to death. But innocent people ARE put to death every day on planet Earth.




I already see your thoughts that a human life is worth about 10 years of housing costs.

And I see that you do not know what you are talking about.

domer76
02-26-2018, 07:39 PM
No system is perfect. EVERY judge has biases...or at least I hope so, because every intelligent individual has biases.

No matter what...my personal preference would be that no one ever languish in prison for longer than 10 years...which itself seems like too long.

I expect that judges will do the best job they can...as will teachers, mechanics, police officers, military personnel, and all the rest of humanity.

At the cost of a human life? It had better be better than “the best job they can”. It had better be perfect.

domer76
02-26-2018, 07:43 PM
I don't think innocent people should be put to death. But innocent people ARE put to death every day on planet Earth.



And I see that you do not know what you are talking about.

You said 10 years or death, didn’t you?

Whether innocent people are put to death elsewhere isn’t the question, is it? We’re talking about OUR judicial system, aren’t we?

Now, do you wish to answer the first question about executing innocent people or not?

Frank Apisa
02-27-2018, 05:14 AM
At the cost of a human life? It had better be better than “the best job they can”. It had better be perfect.

If you are looking for perfect...I suggest you not be looking for it in any humans.

Frank Apisa
02-27-2018, 05:17 AM
You said 10 years or death, didn’t you?

I said my personal opinion was that anything that deserved more than 10 years was too much. I'd prefer a death sentence to that.


Whether innocent people are put to death elsewhere isn’t the question, is it? We’re talking about OUR judicial system, aren’t we?

You asked about innocent people being put to death. If that is not the question...why did you ask.

If you are asking about our judicial system...ask about that.



Now, do you wish to answer the first question about executing innocent people or not?

I already did. What problem do you have with my answer?

Ralph
02-27-2018, 06:50 AM
and you give a monetary reason to incarcerate people.


you can ask people to work

YOU CAN NOT FORCE THEM


your idea is horrible

Reality: The reason criminals are locked up has nothing to do with MONEY....they are locked up because they were caught in committing crimes against humanity. Owing someone money is a civil crime. Geeze....if you read what was presented and concluded that I said PEOPLE should be locked up because of money.....you are an idiot.

Really? You ask criminals to work? Laugh My Ass Off. :laugh: The state owns their ass....its slavery by any other name. If you can ask them if they want to work for room and board....why can't they be asked if they wish to be locked away? Its no wonder this nation is going down the toilet. What? I suppose you call Work "cruel and unusual punishment"? FYI: its not an idea....its reality, prison is nothing but slavery. Name one inmate that is indentured to the state for crimes against humanity....that volunteered.

A monetary reason to be locked up? The "REASON" they are locked up is because they made a free will decision to become a criminal. The money must be spend on them simply to maintain their lives....to offset that expense, WORK THEIR ASSES OFF. I did not choose for them to be incarcerated....THEY DID, its called piss poor life management. Just like all liberals you even demand the criminals of this nation PLAY THE VICTIM CARD. What's next on your list....your no. 1 plan....RACE BAITING?

domer76
02-27-2018, 07:22 AM
If you are looking for perfect...I suggest you not be looking for it in any humans.

For the death penalty, what is your acceptable error rate. 10%?. 5%?. Less? More?

domer76
02-27-2018, 07:32 AM
I said my personal opinion was that anything that deserved more than 10 years was too much. I'd prefer a death sentence to that.



You asked about innocent people being put to death. If that is not the question...why did you ask.

If you are asking about our judicial system...ask about that.




I already did. What problem do you have with my answer?

Good. That is what YOU prefer for yourself. Was that the question in general?

Was the topic capital punishment in the US? Sure seemed like it when you referred to “the government” and “humane execution”. Are you moving the goalposts to the entire world or is that some sort of diversionary tactic? Regardless, let’s just stick with the US. The discussion of the death penalty of countries from Albania to Zimbabwe will get bogged down.

You said they already do in the rest of the world. Is that some sort of tacit approval to do so?

Frank Apisa
02-27-2018, 08:02 AM
For the death penalty, what is your acceptable error rate. 10%?. 5%?. Less? More?

Whatever the level gets to for the time being.

Domer...so that we understand each other...I CONSIDER LONG PERIODS OF INCARCERATION TO BE ONE OF THE MOST VILE, SADISTIC, BARBARIC THINGS ANY HUMAN CAN DO TO ANY OTHER HUMAN.

If you take a sadistic, brutal murderer...and put him/her into prison for the rest of his/her life...in my opinion, you are doing an injustice to morality, to reason, to humanity. Putting a person to death, in my opinion, is much, much, much more humane and moral. And if that means some people die "erroneously"...that is unfortunate...VERY UNFORTUNATE...but acceptable.

Obviously you are of a different opinion.

I can live with that.

Okay?

Frank Apisa
02-27-2018, 08:05 AM
Good. That is what YOU prefer for yourself. Was that the question in general?

Was the topic capital punishment in the US? Sure seemed like it when you referred to “the government” and “humane execution”. Are you moving the goalposts to the entire world or is that some sort of diversionary tactic? Regardless, let’s just stick with the US. The discussion of the death penalty of countries from Albania to Zimbabwe will get bogged down.

You said they already do in the rest of the world. Is that some sort of tacit approval to do so?

I said what?

domer76
02-27-2018, 09:51 AM
Whatever the level gets to for the time being.

Domer...so that we understand each other...I CONSIDER LONG PERIODS OF INCARCERATION TO BE ONE OF THE MOST VILE, SADISTIC, BARBARIC THINGS ANY HUMAN CAN DO TO ANY OTHER HUMAN.

If you take a sadistic, brutal murderer...and put him/her into prison for the rest of his/her life...in my opinion, you are doing an injustice to morality, to reason, to humanity. Putting a person to death, in my opinion, is much, much, much more humane and moral. And if that means some people die "erroneously"...that is unfortunate...VERY UNFORTUNATE...but acceptable.

Obviously you are of a different opinion.

I can live with that.

Okay?

Why can’t you answer the direct question?

Nothing is perfect in this world. Including criminal convictions. So, for the death penalty proponents, there has to be an acceptable error level. What is yours? Are you willing to kill 1 innocent to get the other 99 guilty?

Good for you on what you consider. When YOU get sentenced to more than 10 years, ask them to kill you. But this isn’t about you, is it?

That’s where you and I will always disagree. It is NEVER acceptable to put an innocent person to death. A life sentence, one can correct errors. There are no do-overs with the death penalty.

domer76
02-27-2018, 09:54 AM
I said what?

When asked about putting innocent people to death, you said:

“But innocent people ARE put to death every day on planet Earth.”

Keep up, Frank. This thread is only a couple pages long.

Ralph
02-27-2018, 10:47 AM
When asked about putting innocent people to death, you said:

“But innocent people ARE put to death every day on planet Earth.”

Keep up, Frank. This thread is only a couple pages long.


Reality: Innocent people are placed to death under the current system of jurisprudence....why? Because the system has strayed from the effective policy of putting only those to death who are convicted via objective testable evidences of FACT. As I suggested before.....no one should be sentenced to death on circumstantial evidences including evidences garnered via modern technologies such as fingerprint and DNA evidences, as both are subject to human manipulation and have proven to be laced with error in the past due to these reasons.

However.....the death penalty should always be on the table for anyone that has spilled the blood of the innocent in a premeditated fashion when and if there is no doubt as to the guilt..i.e., when the crime has been directly witnessed by 3 or more individuals with no connection to the defendant....or when there is a plea of guilty along with overwhelming circumstantial evidences. There should be no appeal for the guilty, the punishment should be carried out as soon as possible to insure justice for both the state and those touched by such violence.

The death penalty is endorsed by Christianity as it was God who introduced the Justice of Blood for Blood (Genesis 9:5,6). Such justice is carried forth into the new testament of Christ (Romans 13:3,4). The only thing that I can add is the situation today where murderers are protected by what the seculars call LAW.....its a sad state when the government endorses abortion on demand and euthanasia (state endorsed suicide). If true justice were carried out any physicians taking the life of any child, unborn or born.....they alone with the mother should be subject to the death penalty.....there is nothing more innocent than the blood of a child, whose only crime is a crime of societal inconvenience.

evince
02-27-2018, 10:49 AM
If you are looking for perfect...I suggest you not be looking for it in any humans.

so the correct thing to do is not OFF people UNLESS they want to be offed huh.

domer76
02-27-2018, 10:52 AM
Reality: Innocent people are placed to death under the current system of jurisprudence....why? Because the system has strayed from the effective policy of putting only those to death who are convicted via objective testable evidences of FACT. As I suggested before.....no one should be sentenced to death on circumstantial evidences including evidences garnered via modern technologies such as fingerprint and DNA evidences, as both are subject to human manipulation and have proven to be laced with error in the past due to these reasons.

However.....the death penalty should always be on the table for anyone that has spilled the blood of the innocent in a premeditated fashion when and if there is no doubt as to the guilt..i.e., when the crime has been directly witnessed by 3 or more individuals with no connection to the defendant....or when there is a plea of guilty along with overwhelming circumstantial evidences. There should be no appeal for the guilty, the punishment should be carried out as soon as possible to insure justice for both the state and those touched by such violence.

The death penalty is endorsed by Christianity as it was God who introduced the Justice of Blood for Blood (Genesis 9:5,6). Such justice is carried forth into the new testament of Christ (Romans 13:3,4). The only thing that I can add is the situation today where murderers are protected by what the seculars call LAW.....its a sad state when the government endorses abortion on demand and euthanasia (state endorsed suicide). If true justice were carried out any physicians taking the life of any child, unborn or born.....they alone with the mother should be subject to the death penalty.

Fuck you and your holy book, Ralphie. It has no place in our legal system.

Fuck you and your abortion bullshit, Ralphie. This thread is about capital punishment in our legal system. Start another thread if you want to talk about that.

Ralph
02-27-2018, 10:56 AM
Fuck you and your holy book, Ralphie. It has no place in our legal system.

Fuck you and your abortion bullshit, Ralphie. This thread is about capital punishment in our legal system. Start another thread if you want to talk about that.

Imagine that......no open bigotry here by someone professing LIBERALISM. And to suggest that Christianity has no place in our legal system when our entire system of jurisprudence is based upon a Judeo/Christian philosophy is typical for an ignorant secular who does not comprehend history actual or Christianity at its source. ;) The left eyeball gang.

Lastly: If you don't want to know the answer....don't ask the question. Some individuals are simply to intelligent to chase your rabbits down a never ending circular hole.

domer76
02-27-2018, 11:17 AM
Imagine that......no open bigotry here by someone professing LIBERALISM. And to suggest that Christianity has no place in our legal system when our entire system of jurisprudence is based upon a Judeo/Christian philosophy is typical for an ignorant secular who does not comprehend history actual or Christianity at its source. ;) The left eyeball gang.

Lastly: If you don't want to know the answer....don't ask the question. Some individuals are simply to intelligent to chase your rabbits down a never ending circular hole.

Go to court and quote your holy book as a defense, Ralphie. See how far that gets you.

I know more about the legal system than you will ever know, so don’t spout your bullshit on what it’s based upon. Law is secular, asswipe, whether you wish it to be or not.

What question were you referring to, drunkard?

Frank Apisa
02-27-2018, 03:26 PM
Why can’t you answer the direct question?

Nothing is perfect in this world. Including criminal convictions. So, for the death penalty proponents, there has to be an acceptable error level. What is yours? Are you willing to kill 1 innocent to get the other 99 guilty?

Good for you on what you consider. When YOU get sentenced to more than 10 years, ask them to kill you. But this isn’t about you, is it?

That’s where you and I will always disagree. It is NEVER acceptable to put an innocent person to death. A life sentence, one can correct errors. There are no do-overs with the death penalty.

I agree. On this issue, we disagree.

Anything else?

Frank Apisa
02-27-2018, 03:26 PM
When asked about putting innocent people to death, you said:

“But innocent people ARE put to death every day on planet Earth.”

Keep up, Frank. This thread is only a couple pages long.

Thanks.

And they are.

Do you doubt it?

Frank Apisa
02-27-2018, 03:27 PM
so the correct thing to do is not OFF people UNLESS they want to be offed huh.

I did not say that.

domer76
02-27-2018, 03:36 PM
Thanks.

And they are.

Do you doubt it?

No doubt about it. Because they are in other countries, that makes it acceptable here, right?

Frank Apisa
02-27-2018, 03:46 PM
No doubt about it. Because they are in other countries, that makes it acceptable here, right?

That certainly is not my argument.

domer76
02-27-2018, 03:54 PM
That certainly is not my argument.

Then why make the statement?

Frank Apisa
02-27-2018, 03:55 PM
Then why make the statement?

Why not make it?

domer76
02-27-2018, 04:05 PM
Why not make it?

Oh, I dunno, Frank. Because it’s irrelevant?

Frank Apisa
02-27-2018, 04:06 PM
Oh, I dunno, Frank. Because it’s irrelevant?

Then just ignore it.

What is your problem.

We have an issue here. You are on one side of the issue...and I on the other.

Live with that. It happens. Don't let it upset you so.

domer76
02-27-2018, 04:14 PM
Then just ignore it.

What is your problem.

We have an issue here. You are on one side of the issue...and I on the other.

Live with that. It happens. Don't let it upset you so.

Frankie, my man. You wanted input on our government’s use of capital punishment and then make some irrelevant statement about “well, it happens all over the world”, when talking about innocent people being put to death.

If you want to have a serious discussion, let’s do it. But don’t throw a bunch of peripheral bullshit in and act like you’re surprised when somebody calls you on it.

Frank Apisa
02-27-2018, 04:25 PM
Frankie, my man. You wanted input on our government’s use of capital punishment and then make some irrelevant statement about “well, it happens all over the world”, when talking about innocent people being put to death.

If you want to have a serious discussion, let’s do it. But don’t throw a bunch of peripheral bullshit in and act like you’re surprised when somebody calls you on it.

Domer...you apparently have a problem with people who do not march in lock step with your sense of morality.

That is your problem...not mine. I am NOT in lock step with YOUR morality.

As far as I am concerned, putting a person in prison for the rest of his/her life without the possibility of parole (the usual alternative to capital punishment)...is so barbaric, I have trouble understanding why people like you actually support it and then have the nerve to cast aspersions on people who see it for the unconscionable barbarism that it is.

Now, I laid out my reasons for feeling as I do in great detail in the OP.

If you disagree with my reasoning...fine. We agree! You disagree with me.

But if you want to trot out that "if you want to have a serious discussion" crap...do it with someone else, because you bore me.

If, on the other hand, you actually want to discuss...rather than parade YOUR morality as the standard everyone else should meet....clean up your posts and start all over again.

Okay?

Ralph
02-27-2018, 08:34 PM
Go to court and quote your holy book as a defense, Ralphie. See how far that gets you.

I know more about the legal system than you will ever know, so don’t spout your bullshit on what it’s based upon. Law is secular, asswipe, whether you wish it to be or not.

What question were you referring to, drunkard?

Right.....its not like the first thing you declare is, ".....I swear to tell the truth, SO HELP ME GOD." :laugh: Its not like the federal government has rules established by the laws found to exist in the Judeo/Christian philosophy. Example: Simply look at Article One Section 7 with the US Constitution recognition of the "Sabbath" where it is very clearly stipulated that the President of the United States has 10 days to sign a ratified law into existence (excluding Sundays.....why exclude Sunday?)

Before you attempt to lamely claim...what you think this exception means in unambiguous text allow a Supreme Court decision from the state of Mo. to explain (the state of Mo. basically copied its clause form the US CONSTITUTION).....1912, the court declared thus in relation to excluding SUNDAY'S from Government schedules, "It is that if the Governor does not sign a law within 10 days (Sunday's excepted) it shall become law without his signature......can anyone deny that it contains a recognition of the LORD'S DAY as a day exempted by law from worldly labors?............(the decision further states such).........THE FRAMERS OF THE CONSITUTION RECOGNIZED SUDAY AS A DAY TO BE OBSERVED, ACTING THEMSELVES UNDER A LAW EXACTED A COMPLUSIVE OBERSERVANCE OF IT........."

More history actual: In 1950 the SUPREME COURT OF MISSISSIPPI decided, "The Sunday laws have a DIVINE ORIGIN........."

All of these court opinions came from the precedent established by US supreme court Justice John Jay, who declared, "There were several DIVINE, positive ordinances .....of universal obligations, as THE SABBATH.

In FACT all the 10 commandments of God are found throughout our STATE CONSTITUTIONS and Common Laws, there is not one state constitution that does not reference God in some form or fashion.

One question....if God has nothing to do with the US RULE OF LAW.....why does the US Constitution end as such...."Done in convention by the unanimous consent of THE STATES present the 17th day of September IN THE YEAR OF OUR LORD......."?

iolo
02-28-2018, 06:47 AM
The important thing is that legislators should be expected to consult their consciences rather than the prejudice of the ignorant electors. Here, together with some dreadful miscarriages of justice, that soon led to a change-over to sensible thinking.

PostmodernProphet
02-28-2018, 07:02 AM
Fine. If you think locking someone away for the entire of his/her life makes sense...champion it.

I disagree.

I believe it makes sense......give people as long as possible to change from making bad choices to making good choices........

PostmodernProphet
02-28-2018, 07:05 AM
.I CONSIDER LONG PERIODS OF INCARCERATION TO BE ONE OF THE MOST VILE, SADISTIC, BARBARIC THINGS ANY HUMAN CAN DO TO ANY OTHER HUMAN.


life sentences are not given to punish people......they are given to keep them away from potential victims........

Frank Apisa
02-28-2018, 07:32 AM
I believe it makes sense......give people as long as possible to change from making bad choices to making good choices........

Okay...and I thank you for sharing that, PP.

We disagree. Fine.

For now...and for the foreseeable future, I appears your take will be the majority opinion in America...and will prevail. It may never change...and we all will live with that.

All I am doing is presenting my opinion that this, once again IN MY OPINION, is barbarism on a scale that far exceeds capital punishment.

PostmodernProphet
02-28-2018, 07:34 AM
All I am doing is presenting my opinion that this, once again IN MY OPINION, is barbarism on a scale that far exceeds capital punishment.

I am fine with whatever you believe.......

Frank Apisa
02-28-2018, 07:38 AM
life sentences are not given to punish people......they are given to keep them away from potential victims........

Perhaps that is so...perhaps not. There are people who suggest it IS punishment...and who ask that it be as severe a punishment as possible. People have argued (right here in this thread) that time in prison be made as uncomfortable as possible...AS A PUNISHMENT.

Keeping them away from potential victims, it can be argued, is only a secondary thing. After all, they ARE NOT kept away from fellow prisoners...or from the people who work at the prison.

If "keeping them away from potential victims" actually were the aim...executing them would be much more effective.

Frank Apisa
02-28-2018, 07:39 AM
I am fine with whatever you believe.......

I do not do "believing" PP. This is an opinion I am expressing.

Grugore
02-28-2018, 10:44 AM
if you want the REAL CONSERVATIVE position on this one its for no death penalty.


MONEY


it costs less to house someone for life than it is to oft them


because we have a wonderful constitution that allows reasonable appeals


those court costs make it more expensive per prisoner.


so if you want the perp to NOT COST THE PEOPLE MORE COSTS


lock them away for life

also encourage them to be organ donors

no perks for it


no forcing it


just keep offering it to them all the time


imagine how you might feel if you are a victim of the perp and you realize a mother of two has her life saved by an organ like that ?

There is a simple and effective way to lower court costs. Kill all the lawyers. Seriously. Who do you think gets all that money?

Truth Detector
02-28-2018, 10:46 AM
With this post, I’m probably going to veer away from the political positions of some of the people with whom I have been shoulder to shoulder up until now. My feelings about capital punishment are closer to the American conservative position than to the positions of people more to the left.

I see nothing significantly wrong or unethical about capital punishment…and see it to be significantly more ethical than most of what is considered its alternative.

I certainly think capital punishment is less cruel and unusual than a sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole. But let me expand on that thought, because my regard of this area of the issue goes beyond that...to considerations many people find uncomfortable or objectionable.

It my personal opinion that the maximum sentence for ANY crime…should be ten year or less. Anything that requires imprisonment for more than ten years…should be a capital offense.

I think we should perform executions in as humane a way as possible…no matter the circumstances that resulted in a death sentence. If the government has to set up labs to manufacture the drugs necessary for a humane execution by lethal injection…we should do it.

Any thoughts?[/B]

I agree with the bolded parts.

Truth Detector
02-28-2018, 10:47 AM
If you have a perfect justice system not influenced by racism and comparative wealth, education and the like. Do you have such a system? Have you confidence in the ability of your judges?

:legion:

Truth Detector
02-28-2018, 10:52 AM
At the cost of a human life? It had better be better than “the best job they can”. It had better be perfect.

Irony; a leftist who supports abortion at will and the murder of millions of innocent lives feigning concern over the cost of a human life....one who was convicted of murder none-the-less.

You leftists are too stupid to comprehend the obvious.

Truth Detector
02-28-2018, 10:54 AM
For the death penalty, what is your acceptable error rate. 10%?. 5%?. Less? More?

Translation: Dumber believes that torture by imprisonment be a better outcome. But when it comes to unborn children, murder them at will!!!

Truth Detector
02-28-2018, 10:54 AM
Fuck you and your holy book, Ralphie. It has no place in our legal system.

Fuck you and your abortion bullshit, Ralphie. This thread is about capital punishment in our legal system. Start another thread if you want to talk about that.

Translation:

:legion:

PostmodernProphet
02-28-2018, 12:27 PM
I do not do "believing" PP. This is an opinion I am expressing.

Yes I am aware you believe that to be true....

Frank Apisa
02-28-2018, 12:50 PM
Yes I am aware you believe that to be true....

I do not do "believing."

As for it being an opinion...I KNOW it is an opinion.

PostmodernProphet
02-28-2018, 01:59 PM
I do not do "believing."

As for it being an opinion...I KNOW it is an opinion.

you know its something you believe?......

Frank Apisa
02-28-2018, 02:15 PM
you know its something you believe?......

I do not do "believing."

PostmodernProphet
03-01-2018, 06:26 AM
I do not do "thinking"

I know, right?....

Frank Apisa
03-01-2018, 06:30 AM
I know, right?....

You regularly misquote people...further proof that you are a low-life.

Hey...nothing wrong with that...providing you have no self-respect. So you should have no problem with it at all.

PostmodernProphet
03-01-2018, 06:37 AM
You regularly misquote people...further proof that you are a low-life.

Hey...nothing wrong with that...providing you have no self-respect. So you should have no problem with it at all.

really?......I knew it showed a lack of respect......but I envisioned a different target......

Frank Apisa
03-01-2018, 08:30 AM
really?......I knew it showed a lack of respect......but I envisioned a different target......

Ahhh...still "arguing" with me after the big realization.

I figured that.

You have no self-respect, PP.

You also are lousy at zingers...so you should stay away from them. Stick to pretending to quote...while actually lying.

And so stick around. That's part of my plan for you.

CFM
03-01-2018, 11:02 AM
With this post, I’m probably going to veer away from the political positions of some of the people with whom I have been shoulder to shoulder up until now. My feelings about capital punishment are closer to the American conservative position than to the positions of people more to the left.

I see nothing significantly wrong or unethical about capital punishment…and see it to be significantly more ethical than most of what is considered its alternative.

I certainly think capital punishment is less cruel and unusual than a sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole. But let me expand on that thought, because my regard of this area of the issue goes beyond that...to considerations many people find uncomfortable or objectionable.

It my personal opinion that the maximum sentence for ANY crime…should be ten year or less. Anything that requires imprisonment for more than ten years…should be a capital offense.

I think we should perform executions in as humane a way as possible…no matter the circumstances that resulted in a death sentence. If the government has to set up labs to manufacture the drugs necessary for a humane execution by lethal injection…we should do it.

Any thoughts?

Why should the criminal be treated in a more humane way than the victim(s) for whose murders resulted in the death sentence?

tff
03-01-2018, 10:38 PM
Why should the criminal be treated in a more humane way than the victim(s) for whose murders resulted in the death sentence?

Because two wrongs don't make a right.

USFREEDOM911
03-01-2018, 11:28 PM
Because two wrongs don't make a right.

But 3 lefts do.

CFM
03-02-2018, 06:51 AM
Because two wrongs don't make a right.

There wouldn't be two wrongs. The only wrong is the one deserving the death sentence having treated the innocent person in an inhumane manner. Treating the perpetrator the same way isn't a wrong.

Ever read the Golden Rule? Matthew 7:12 - So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you.

Why don't you have your real profile respond instead of hiding behind a sock?

CFM
03-02-2018, 06:52 AM
But 3 lefts do.

I'm yet to see where there is a wrong for the one getting the death penalty being treated in the same manner in which he/she treated their victim(s).

ClassPreE
03-25-2018, 07:34 PM
I'm all for the death penalty as long as executions are carried out as humanely as possible without violating the constitution. I think the current use of lethal injection is constitutional and should be kept on the books. The appeals process is way too long, and the condemned wait too long for their sentence to be imposed. That's something that can be reformed.

leaningright
03-25-2018, 07:50 PM
Thank you for that, Ralph...

...although I wish you were not on my side on this.

Just goes to show that people don’t disagree on every single issue...lol.

leaningright
03-25-2018, 07:56 PM
NO ONE should make money off of the imprisonment of Americans

Sure they should. Society should. Chain gangs... Prison crews can pick up trash on the side of the roads, do some construction jobs, make license plates, etc. These things used to be done in a country that is a constitutional republic. Still should be, IMO.

USFREEDOM911
03-25-2018, 11:14 PM
You and USFREEDOM need to get a room. You two are perfect for each other.

Are you and Buckly vacating yours, now that your racist convention is finished?

Frank Apisa
03-26-2018, 05:34 AM
Just goes to show that people don’t disagree on every single issue...lol.

Right you are. (Pun intended!) :)

CFM
03-26-2018, 05:45 AM
You and USFREEDOM need to get a room. You two are perfect for each other.

The one deserving the death penalty thought the manner in which he/she killed their INNOCENT victim(s) was OK. Why would anyone be opposed to the guilty one getting the same thing?

USFREEDOM911
03-26-2018, 10:50 PM
Praisekek is sending you a friend request.
Will you accept,racist.

Is that how you and Buckly met?
Did he recruit you to the Stormfront site and now you revel in your white supremacy?

Minister of Truth
03-26-2018, 11:48 PM
I'm all for the death penalty as long as executions are carried out as humanely as possible without violating the constitution. I think the current use of lethal injection is constitutional and should be kept on the books. The appeals process is way too long, and the condemned wait too long for their sentence to be imposed. That's something that can be reformed.

It would certainly appear that the current appeals process is designed to prevent an execution from ever being carried out.

ClassPreE
03-27-2018, 09:02 AM
It would certainly appear that the current appeals process is designed to prevent an execution from ever being carried out.
Yes, that can appear to be the case. There should be reforms to shorten the appeals process and avoid death row inmates waiting decades and decades for their sentence to be carried out. This is very expensive and a burden for victims families.

MAGA MAN
03-27-2018, 09:04 AM
Once you get solid, scientific proof, light 'em up!

ClassPreE
03-27-2018, 09:09 AM
Once you get solid, scientific proof, light 'em up!
Yes. I think Virginia is a good example of a state with a more competent use of the capital punishment. The average time on death row in VA is less than 10 years. Since 1977, they have carried out over 100 executions with only 4 left on death row today.

MAGA MAN
03-27-2018, 09:24 AM
Yes. I think Virginia is a good example of a state with a more competent use of the capital punishment. The average time on death row in VA is less than 10 years. Since 1977, they have carried out over 100 executions with only 4 left on death row today.

Ten months would be preferable.

ClassPreE
03-27-2018, 09:28 AM
Ten months would be preferable.
I'd say no more than 2 years max. But VA is the shortest appeals out of the rest of the country.

USFREEDOM911
03-27-2018, 03:40 PM
Once you get solid, scientific proof, light 'em up!

I agree.
Way to many accept the guilty plea; but then want it reduced to a life sentence.

Maybe we need to redefine a life sentence to mean "You're only going to live for 6 more months".

USFREEDOM911
03-27-2018, 03:42 PM
Praisekek wants you at Stormfront. Little does he know, you have been a member for years.

Is that what Buckly told you to post, to try and draw attention away from the revelation that you and him are just closet racists?

USFREEDOM911
03-27-2018, 03:52 PM
Buckly gave me a link to a post you made here expressing your homosexual prison rape fantasies.
Would you like me to post it here?
I could even put it in my signature like he did, if you like.

Are you both keeping this; because it brings back fond memories when you were both cellmates?

Is that where you both "cemented" your bond in racism?

Leonthecat
03-27-2018, 04:30 PM
Are you both keeping this; because it brings back fond memories when you were both cellmates?

Is that where you both "cemented" your bond in racism?

This message is hidden because USFREEDOM911 is on your ignore list.

USFREEDOM911
03-27-2018, 04:33 PM
This message is hidden because USFREEDOM911 is on your ignore list.

This is not going to make me refrain from continuing to point our the racism by you and Buckly, no matter how hard you try to hide it.

OR

Maybe I accomplished what I set out to do.

:dunno:

Leonthecat
03-27-2018, 04:35 PM
This is not going to make me refrain from continuing to point our the racism by you and Buckly, no matter how hard you try to hide it.

OR

Maybe I accomplished what I set out to do.

:dunno:

This message is hidden because USFREEDOM911 is on your ignore list.

USFREEDOM911
03-27-2018, 04:38 PM
This message is hidden because USFREEDOM911 is on your ignore list.

So you've decided to return and "face the music" that your racist friend, Buckly, is and has been playing, which you of course enjoy supporting. :good4u:

Leonthecat
03-27-2018, 04:39 PM
So you've decided to return and "face the music" that your racist friend, Buckly, is and has been playing, which you of course enjoy supporting. :good4u:

This message is hidden because USFREEDOM911 is on your ignore list.

USFREEDOM911
03-27-2018, 04:45 PM
This message is hidden because USFREEDOM911 is on your ignore list.

This message is hidden because Buckly is on your ignore list. :D

Leonthecat
03-27-2018, 04:46 PM
This message is hidden because Buckly is on your ignore list. :D

This message is hidden because USFREEDOM911 is on your ignore list.

USFREEDOM911
03-27-2018, 06:50 PM
This message is hidden because USFREEDOM911 is on your ignore list.

This message is hidden because Buckly is on your ignore list. :D