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Frank Apisa
02-18-2018, 07:19 AM
Yeah...

...I don't believe any gods exist...

...and I don't believe there are no gods.

Anyone see anything illogical about this? (Some people do...and if YOU do, I'd love to discuss it.)

Minister of Truth
02-18-2018, 07:22 AM
I have no logical issue with agnosticism.

Frank Apisa
02-18-2018, 07:28 AM
I have no logical issue with agnosticism.

Thank you, Threedee.

didimon
02-25-2018, 04:44 AM
It's agnosticism?

RB 60
02-25-2018, 05:02 AM
I don't care what you believe.

Frank Apisa
02-25-2018, 06:34 AM
It's agnosticism?

The title certainly is something any agnostic should assert.

Frank Apisa
02-25-2018, 06:35 AM
I don't care what you believe.

I don't do "believing."

Obviously you DO care what I do not believe...or you wouldn't be here in a tizzy like you are.

Eagle_Eye
02-25-2018, 07:37 AM
Believing in God is a personal choice. The way I see it, is it costs me nothing to believe and if I'm incorrect I lose nothing in the end but those who don't believe lose everything if I am right. So it's a persons choice plain and simple. Is that logical enough.

Frank Apisa
02-25-2018, 08:04 AM
Believing in God is a personal choice. The way I see it, is it costs me nothing to believe and if I'm incorrect I lose nothing in the end but those who don't believe lose everything if I am right. So it's a persons choice plain and simple. Is that logical enough.

If you think it is logical enough...fine.

So you are saying that this god you "believe in" by choice...will cause those who choose the other way from you...to "lose everything" whatever that means?

Okay...if you see that as logical...no problem. I see it as weird, but...

In any case, I do not "believe" any gods exist...and I also do not "believe" there are no gods.

If you are correct about the kind of god you "believe in"...I wonder what it has in store for me.

Eagle_Eye
02-25-2018, 08:15 AM
"So you are saying that this god you "believe in" by choice...will cause those who choose the other way from you...to "lose everything" whatever that means?"

>> What ever that means????? Are you that ignorant of biblical teachings?

"Okay...if you see that as logical...no problem. I see it as weird, but...

>> I guess the majority on this planet are "weird".

"If you are correct about the kind of god you "believe in"...I wonder what it has in store for me."

>> Guess you will find out when you leave this world.

What I find amusing is not one of you none believers can disprove my statement "believers lose nothing, non-believers lose all".

ThatOwlWoman
02-25-2018, 08:17 AM
Why do we need god(s)?

PostmodernProphet
02-25-2018, 08:19 AM
I have no problem with people who cannot make up their own minds.....

Ralph
02-25-2018, 08:27 AM
Yeah...

...I don't believe any gods exist...

...and I don't believe there are no gods.

Anyone see anything illogical about this? (Some people do...and if YOU do, I'd love to discuss it.)

Indeed.....the word "believe" requires a leap of faith. A true Atheist would be able to declare....THERE ARE/IS NO gODS, and proceed to document this statement with objective, testable, repeatable evidences of fact. Thus: The Atheist is an "oxymoron" of self contradiction. ;) If you can't PROVE there is no GOD....then you are working on faith alone, something the Atheist states they do not believe in.

Frank Apisa
02-25-2018, 08:33 AM
"So you are saying that this god you "believe in" by choice...will cause those who choose the other way from you...to "lose everything" whatever that means?"

>> What ever that means????? Are you that ignorant of biblical teachings?

No I am not ignorant of biblical teachings at all. I've got 13 Bibles on my bookshelf in front of me...Catholic, Protestant, and Hebrew. I read from them often.

Anyway, I guess you mean that "eternal life" crap?

Seems to me "eternal life" is a punishment...not something I would want at all. "Just letting life end" when it ends, IS a reward.

Just was wondering what you meant.


"Okay...if you see that as logical...no problem. I see it as weird, but...

>> I guess the majority on this planet are "weird".

The ones who think that is logical...are certainly weird in my opinion. Obviously your opinion differs from mine. I can accept that with grace and class.

You?


"If you are correct about the kind of god you "believe in"...I wonder what it has in store for me."

>> Guess you will find out when you leave this world.

Yeah...that is what you guess. I am not making a guess...so I still wonder.


What I find amusing is not one of you none believers can disprove my statement "believers lose nothing, non-believers lose all".

What I find amusing is that you think anyone would try to "disprove" a guess on your part.

If you say it is your guess that ""believers lose nothing, non-believers lose all"...I am willing to accept that it is your guess.

I do wonder why you guess your god would be displeased by people who tell the truth, though.

I, for one, do not make a guess about the existence of any gods or not...I do not (what you call) "believe" they exist.

That is the absolute truth.

And you think your god be displeased with me for telling the truth?

I wonder: Are you thinking that if I lied to your god and said, "Oh, yeah, I guess you do exist"...would it treat me more kindly?

Frank Apisa
02-25-2018, 08:34 AM
Why do we need god(s)?

Good question.

Frank Apisa
02-25-2018, 08:36 AM
I have no problem with people who cannot make up their own minds.....

Neither do I.

But saying that I will not guess there are gods...and I also will not guess there are no gods...

...is not refusing to make up one's mind.

I think it IS making up one's mind...and choosing the most logical option on the question.

But I have no problem with people who have to guess one way or another.

evince
02-25-2018, 08:37 AM
I don't care what you believe.

we know you don't care about others

its why you are a republican

Frank Apisa
02-25-2018, 08:40 AM
Indeed.....the word "believe" requires a leap of faith. A true Atheist would be able to declare....THERE ARE/IS NO gODS, and proceed to document this statement with objective, testable, repeatable evidences of fact. Thus: The Atheist is an "oxymoron" of self contradiction. ;) If you can't PROVE there is no GOD....then you are working on faith alone, something the Atheist states they do not believe in.

Anyone who asserts, "There are no gods" or "It is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one"...IS MAKING A BLIND GUESS.

Anyone who asserts, "There is a God" or "It is more likely that there is a God than that there is no God"...IS ALMOST CERTAINLY MAKING A BLIND GUESS, also.

Ralph
02-25-2018, 08:43 AM
Good question.

Nothing physical requires a Creator? We live in a world of magic. If you start with -0- you end with nothing. With no creating CAUSE to a physical effect there can be no people to ask stupid questions.

The question was back asswards. The real question is why does a creator/GOD....need us? But its typical of someone that worships at the alter of human secularism to place their own worth above that which caused them to be. Somehow when 1 is subtracted from 3.....1 becomes greater than 3 the constant from which it was taken.

Eagle_Eye
02-25-2018, 08:44 AM
Good question.

Tell the truth? Hell man you can't even answer honestly. If God exists and you say he doesn't you sure as hell aren't telling the truth.

But back to the debate: I don't give a fat rats ass whether you or anyone else believes. That is your choice case closed.

PS
You do know that Chicken Woman claims to be a Wiccan and so she worships something.

evince
02-25-2018, 08:51 AM
Tell the truth? Hell man you can't even answer honestly. If God exists and you say he doesn't you sure as hell aren't telling the truth.

But back to the debate: I don't give a fat rats ass whether you or anyone else believes. That is your choice case closed.

PS
You do know that Chicken Woman claims to be a Wiccan and so she worships something.

you don't believe


you are hedging your bets


you don't sound like someone who honors the words of Jesus

Frank Apisa
02-25-2018, 08:51 AM
Nothing physical requires a Creator? We live in a world of magic. If you start with -0- you end with nothing. With no creating CAUSE to a physical effect there can be no people to ask stupid questions.

The question was back asswards. The real question is why does a creator/GOD....need us? But its typical of someone that worships at the alter of human secularism to place their own worth above that which caused them to be. Somehow when 1 is subtracted from 3.....1 becomes greater than 3 the constant from which it was taken.

I am unsure of what you are saying here.

If you are saying you know for certain that "the universe" is a Creation and requires a Creator...

...explain how you know...and we can discuss it.

You may be correct.

ME: I do not know...and I am not making any guesses.

evince
02-25-2018, 08:56 AM
there is no system we have already begun to understand scientifically that requires a GOD to make it happen


that means there is no god in the system

I also don't believe in the cracken for the same reasons

Frank Apisa
02-25-2018, 08:58 AM
Tell the truth? Hell man you can't even answer honestly. If God exists and you say he doesn't you sure as hell aren't telling the truth.

Jesus H. Christ, Eagle Eye...read the goddam title of the thread...and read what I have been saying.

I am not saying your god does NOT exist. I have never said that. EVER! So how about you stop putting words into my mouth.

I do not know if any gods exist or not. I DO NOT KNOW....if any gods, including that thing you call "God"...exists or not.

I am NOT saying any god DOES EXIST...and I am NOT saying any gods DO NOT EXIST.

I am telling the truth.




But back to the debate: I don't give a fat rats ass whether you or anyone else believes. That is your choice case closed.

So what the hell are you doing here?

Obviously YOU DO CARE...or you would not even be participating.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the issue...but if you truly think the case is closed...go back to a thread talking about Donald Trump. That is not closed.


PS
You do know that Chicken Woman claims to be a Wiccan and so she worships something.

If someone worships something or not...I judge what they have to say, and comment on that.

Frank Apisa
02-25-2018, 09:01 AM
there is no system we have already begun to understand scientifically that requires a GOD to make it happen


that means there is no god in the system

I also don't believe in the cracken for the same reasons

The fact that there is no reason for a GOD to exist...does NOT mean no gods exist.

That is horrible logic.

Some people guess a particular god exists. Fine...that is their guess. I don't even mind if instead of saying, "I guess a god exists"...they say, "I believe a god exists."

Whatever floats their boats.

Eagle_Eye
02-25-2018, 09:05 AM
Jesus H. Christ, Eagle Eye...read the goddam title of the thread...and read what I have been saying.

I am not saying your god does NOT exist. I have never said that. EVER! So how about you stop putting words into my mouth.

I do not know if any gods exist or not. I DO NOT KNOW....if any gods, including that thing you call "God"...exists or not.

I am NOT saying any god DOES EXIST...and I am NOT saying any gods DO NOT EXIST.

I am telling the truth.




So what the hell are you doing here?

Obviously YOU DO CARE...or you would not even be participating.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the issue...but if you truly think the case is closed...go back to a thread talking about Donald Trump. That is not closed.



If someone worships something or not...I judge what they have to say, and comment on that.

:hearnoevil::speaknoevil::seenoevil: Yep that's you.

Frank Apisa
02-25-2018, 09:06 AM
:hearnoevil::speaknoevil::seenoevil: Yep that's you.

Still here, I see.

Yeah. I think you might "care" a lot more than you think.

evince
02-25-2018, 09:19 AM
The fact that there is no reason for a GOD to exist...does NOT mean no gods exist.

That is horrible logic.

Some people guess a particular god exists. Fine...that is their guess. I don't even mind if instead of saying, "I guess a god exists"...they say, "I believe a god exists."

Whatever floats their boats.

there is no need for any god in any of the science we have figured out


a system doesn't present any need for the craken either

or discompleiatenates


or sunbranatious vectations

Frank Apisa
02-25-2018, 09:31 AM
there is no need for any god in any of the science we have figured out

I agree with you completely, Evince. THERE IS NO NEED FOR ANY GOD. PERIOD.

That does not mean there are no gods...just that there is no need for one.

There is no need for the color red...but there is a color red.

There is no need for an island at coordinates 24.3768° S, 128.3242° W...but there is one...luckily for Fletcher Christian and his crew.

The fact that there is no need for a thing...does not mean it does not exist.

RB 60
02-25-2018, 09:32 AM
I don't do "believing."

Obviously you DO care what I do not believe...or you wouldn't be here in a tizzy like you are.

A tizzy? Silly you.

evince
02-25-2018, 09:33 AM
there is no need for any god in any of the science we have figured out


a system doesn't present any need for the craken either

or discompleiatenates


or sunbranatious vectations




or sunbranatious vectations

Frank Apisa
02-25-2018, 09:35 AM
A tizzy? Silly you.

Nothing "silly" about it. Thought I'd give you a chance to do one of those "old guy" jokes.

RB 60
02-25-2018, 09:55 AM
Nothing "silly" about it. Thought I'd give you a chance to do one of those "old guy" jokes.

An old geezer became very bored in retirement and decided to open a medical clinic.
.
He put a sign up outside that said: "Dr. Geezer's clinic. Get your treatment for $500, if not cured, get back $1,000."

Doctor Young, who was positive that this old geezer didn't know beans about medicine, thought this would be a great opportunity to get $1,000. So he went to Dr. Geezer's clinic.
.
Dr. Young: "Dr. Geezer, I have lost all taste in my mouth. Can you please help me?"
.
Dr. Geezer: "Nurse, please bring medicine from box 22 and put 3 drops in Dr. Young's mouth.”
.
Dr. Young: “Aaagh!! This is Gasoline!"
.
Dr. Geezer: "Congratulations! You've got your taste back. That will be $500.”
.
Dr. Young gets annoyed and goes back after a couple of days figuring to recover his money.
.
Dr. Young: "I have lost my memory, I cannot remember anything."
.
Dr. Geezer: "Nurse, please bring medicine from box 22 and put 3 drops in the patient's mouth."
.
Dr. Young: "Oh, no you don't -- that is Gasoline!"
.
Dr. Geezer: "Congratulations! You've got your memory back. That will be $500."
.
Dr. Young (after having lost $1000) leaves angrily and comes back after several more days.
.
Dr. Young: "My eyesight has become weak. I can hardly see anything!!!!"
.
Dr. Geezer: "Well, I don't have any medicine for that so, here's your $1000 back." (giving him a $10 bill)
.
Dr. Young: "But this is only $10!"
.
Dr. Geezer: "Congratulations! You got your vision back! That will be $500."
.
Moral of the story: Just because you're ‘Young’ doesn't mean that you can outsmart an ‘old Geezer’!
.
Remember: Don't make old people mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to tick us off.


Happy now?

Frank Apisa
02-25-2018, 10:04 AM
An old geezer became very bored in retirement and decided to open a medical clinic.
.
He put a sign up outside that said: "Dr. Geezer's clinic. Get your treatment for $500, if not cured, get back $1,000."

Doctor Young, who was positive that this old geezer didn't know beans about medicine, thought this would be a great opportunity to get $1,000. So he went to Dr. Geezer's clinic.
.
Dr. Young: "Dr. Geezer, I have lost all taste in my mouth. Can you please help me?"
.
Dr. Geezer: "Nurse, please bring medicine from box 22 and put 3 drops in Dr. Young's mouth.”
.
Dr. Young: “Aaagh!! This is Gasoline!"
.
Dr. Geezer: "Congratulations! You've got your taste back. That will be $500.”
.
Dr. Young gets annoyed and goes back after a couple of days figuring to recover his money.
.
Dr. Young: "I have lost my memory, I cannot remember anything."
.
Dr. Geezer: "Nurse, please bring medicine from box 22 and put 3 drops in the patient's mouth."
.
Dr. Young: "Oh, no you don't -- that is Gasoline!"
.
Dr. Geezer: "Congratulations! You've got your memory back. That will be $500."
.
Dr. Young (after having lost $1000) leaves angrily and comes back after several more days.
.
Dr. Young: "My eyesight has become weak. I can hardly see anything!!!!"
.
Dr. Geezer: "Well, I don't have any medicine for that so, here's your $1000 back." (giving him a $10 bill)
.
Dr. Young: "But this is only $10!"
.
Dr. Geezer: "Congratulations! You got your vision back! That will be $500."
.
Moral of the story: Just because you're ‘Young’ doesn't mean that you can outsmart an ‘old Geezer’!
.
Remember: Don't make old people mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to tick us off.


Happy now?

Loved it. In fact, I will steal it...and mail it to some of the geezers I play golf with. But I will give you credit. I'll tell 'em, RB gave me this.

And when they ask who RB is...I'll answer, "Are be damned if I know."

PostmodernProphet
02-25-2018, 04:44 PM
I think it IS making up one's mind...and choosing the most logical option on the question.


lol....no.....deciding to wait until there is unavoidable evidence isn't "making up your mind".....its a refusal to make up your mind......

Frank Apisa
02-25-2018, 04:53 PM
lol....no.....deciding to wait until there is unavoidable evidence isn't "making up your mind".....its a refusal to make up your mind......

No...when you don't know and acknowledge you don't know...it means you are an adult.

If you don't know and pretend you do...by disguising the fact that you are making a blind guess and calling it "I believe...""...

...it means you are a chump.

Hey...chumps like you have a place in society. Just don't clog up the storm drains.

PostmodernProphet
02-25-2018, 05:09 PM
No...when you don't know and acknowledge you don't know...it means you are an adult.

If you don't know and pretend you do...by disguising the fact that you are making a blind guess and calling it "I believe...""...

...it means you are a chump.

Hey...chumps like you have a place in society. Just don't clog up the storm drains.

sorry, but since no one has told you what to believe, how can you decide who is and who isn't a chump?......

Frank Apisa
02-25-2018, 06:09 PM
sorry, but since no one has told you what to believe, how can you decide who is and who isn't a chump?......

If you are making a guess that a god exists...and calling that guess anything but a GUESS...

...you are a chump.

Rhymes with Trump.

Leonthecat
02-25-2018, 06:13 PM
Believing in God is a personal choice. The way I see it, is it costs me nothing to believe and if I'm incorrect I lose nothing in the end but those who don't believe lose everything if I am right. So it's a persons choice plain and simple. Is that logical enough.

So in your eyes accepting the notion that supernatural beings control your life and your destiny is just a bet?

Leonthecat
02-25-2018, 06:23 PM
If you are making a guess that a god exists...and calling that guess anything but a GUESS...

...you are a chump.

Rhymes with Trump.

PMP has "faith" that 1st century, middle east goat farmer's superstitions were an accurate assessment of the universe, because that is what he was told as a child.
He also has "faith" that Trump is an intelligent conservative.
He has a lot of "faith" and very little else.

Frank Apisa
02-25-2018, 07:12 PM
PMP has "faith" that 1st century, middle east goat farmer's superstitions were an accurate assessment of the universe, because that is what he was told as a child.
He also has "faith" that Trump is an intelligent conservative.
He has a lot of "faith" and very little else.

Bingo!

Looks at though you read him loud and clear, Cat. He IS easy to see through!

ThatOwlWoman
02-25-2018, 07:28 PM
So in your eyes accepting the notion that supernatural beings control your life and your destiny is just a bet?

Plus that sounded awfully insincere. "Hmm, I don't know for sure if the God everyone talks about is real. But just in case, I'm going to say that I believe so if it *is* true, I'll get some kind of ____. But if it's not true, I'm not out anything." Reminds me a lot of a kid who still believes in Santa but hears kids at school saying Santa isn't real.

What I'd like to know is why a belief in god(s) is always entwined with a belief in an afterlife, in Western religions. Why does there have to be a god in order for some bit of us to continue to exist after the meatspace body is gone?

Frank Apisa
02-25-2018, 07:32 PM
Plus that sounded awfully insincere. "Hmm, I don't know for sure if the God everyone talks about is real. But just in case, I'm going to say that I believe so if it *is* true, I'll get some kind of ____. But if it's not true, I'm not out anything." Reminds me a lot of a kid who still believes in Santa but hears kids at school saying Santa isn't real.

What I'd like to know is why a belief in god(s) is always entwined with a belief in an afterlife, in Western religions. Why does there have to be a god in order for some bit of us to continue to exist after the meatspace body is gone?

The driving force behind most religion...is an abject fear of death by the adherents, OW.

They are afraid.

That is why the often say that there are no atheists in foxholes. (They think if you are terrified enough...you will accept the idea of a god.)

Also why they claim that on the death bed...people convert.

MY GUESS: The are wrong on those two things MOST of the time.

ThatOwlWoman
02-25-2018, 08:06 PM
The driving force behind most religion...is an abject fear of death by the adherents, OW.
They are afraid.
That is why the often say that there are no atheists in foxholes. (They think if you are terrified enough...you will accept the idea of a god.)
Also why they claim that on the death bed...people convert.
MY GUESS: The are wrong on those two things MOST of the time.

The idea of death is indeed terrifying even for those who are sure there's some sort of afterlife. It just makes sense: an organism that doesn't fear extinction isn't going to last long enough to pass on its genes to the next generation.

As a nurse I've attended the last moments of those passing on; have not seen any sudden conversions. As a human who has had two near-death experiences herself, I can tell you that at those times my only and overwhelming concern was what was going to happen with my children if I didn't make it.

Cancel 2019.1
02-25-2018, 08:32 PM
The idea of death is indeed terrifying even for those who are sure there's some sort of afterlife. It just makes sense: an organism that doesn't fear extinction isn't going to last long enough to pass on its genes to the next generation.

As a nurse I've attended the last moments of those passing on; have not seen any sudden conversions. As a human who has had two near-death experiences herself, I can tell you that at those times my only and overwhelming concern was what was going to happen with my children if I didn't make it.

That's where it is so different for me,when I had my Epiphany at 26 ,and knew Jesus,YHWH was real and I had eternal life.
My feeling was get me OUT of HERE!

Leonthecat
02-25-2018, 08:35 PM
The driving force behind most religion...is an abject fear of death by the adherents, OW.

They are afraid.

That is why the often say that there are no atheists in foxholes. (They think if you are terrified enough...you will accept the idea of a god.)

Also why they claim that on the death bed...people convert.

MY GUESS: The are wrong on those two things MOST of the time.

" Fear of god" is actually a fear of mortality. The irrational fear of life being over at death can drive many otherwise intelligent people to accept and "believe in" any manner of childish myths and supernatural fantasies and allow themselves to be controlled by charlatans.
It is, the greatest failing of humanity .

Leonthecat
02-25-2018, 08:50 PM
Bingo!

Looks at though you read him loud and clear, Cat. He IS easy to see through!

As transparent as glass.

ThatOwlWoman
02-25-2018, 08:57 PM
" Fear of god" is actually a fear of mortality. The irrational fear of life being over at death can drive many otherwise intelligent people to accept and "believe in" any manner of childish myths and supernatural fantasies and allow themselves to be controlled by charlatans.
It is, the greatest failing of humanity .

"Failing" is a value judgment, but then that's why we're here -- to offer up our judgments. lol

Frank started a similar thread a while back. I posted about what our local indigenous people (the Ojibwe) believe; it corresponds closely to my own personal beliefs. A major figure in their cosmology is Gitchi-Manidoo, Great Spirit to the English-speakers. It isn't really that though; it means more like "great mystery." Almost everything possesses manidoo/spirit/living essence/mystery. The mystery is we cannot fully know this essence because of our minds' limitations. When a person dies her spirit travels to the West and eventually reunites with the spirits of her ancestors/family. It's not a heaven nor a hell, just what happens to the manidoo within us all. Gitchi-Manidoo is not a judge or fatherly presence like Western religions have, nor is it exactly a creator either. This is the extremely simplified explanation; it is far more complex than this.

This cosmology does have the nearly universal belief in some sort of afterlife. As for me, if death of my meatspace body is the end I'm fine with that. If reincarnation is how it works, that's okay too. Heaven and hell, sure, whatever.

Leonthecat
02-25-2018, 09:16 PM
"Failing" is a value judgment, but then that's why we're here -- to offer up our judgments. lol

Frank started a similar thread a while back. I posted about what our local indigenous people (the Ojibwe) believe; it corresponds closely to my own personal beliefs. A major figure in their cosmology is Gitchi-Manidoo, Great Spirit to the English-speakers. It isn't really that though; it means more like "great mystery." Almost everything possesses manidoo/spirit/living essence/mystery. The mystery is we cannot fully know this essence because of our minds' limitations. When a person dies her spirit travels to the West and eventually reunites with the spirits of her ancestors/family. It's not a heaven nor a hell, just what happens to the manidoo within us all. Gitchi-Manidoo is not a judge or fatherly presence like Western religions have, nor is it exactly a creator either. This is the extremely simplified explanation; it is far more complex than this.

This cosmology does have the nearly universal belief in some sort of afterlife. As for me, if death of my meatspace body is the end I'm fine with that. If reincarnation is how it works, that's okay too. Heaven and hell, sure, whatever.

Native Americans are just a fallible and wrong about their superstitious beliefs as any other culture.
Born out of ignorance and fear, father figures with supernatural powers are made up and passed down in almost all civilizations to explain what is unknown.
As I said, it is a human failing, not a cultural one, to need this kind of superstition in everyday life.
The Ojibwe are no different.

PostmodernProphet
02-25-2018, 09:19 PM
at least agnostics are prepared to admit they don't know what the fuck is going on.......atheists are the real sad lot.....stating that it is irrational to believe something without proof, then asserting there ARE NO gods........

Leonthecat
02-25-2018, 09:22 PM
That's where it is so different for me,when I had my Epiphany at 26 ,and knew Jesus,YHWH was real and I had eternal life.
My feeling was get me OUT of HERE!

So did you kill yourself to begin your eternal life you are so sure about?

ThatOwlWoman
02-25-2018, 09:22 PM
Native Americans are just a fallible and wrong about their superstitious beliefs as any other culture.
Born out of ignorance and fear, father figures with supernatural powers are made up and passed down in almost all civilizations to explain what is unknown.
As I said, it is a human failing, not a cultural one, to need this kind of superstition in everyday life.
The Ojibwe are no different.

We're all just ppl. But as I pointed out, they don't have a father/mother-figure deity like Western religions. There is a definite belief in an afterlife though, common to most faiths.

Leonthecat
02-25-2018, 09:25 PM
at least agnostics are prepared to admit they don't know what the fuck is going on.......atheists are the real sad lot.....stating that it is irrational to believe something without proof, then asserting there ARE NO gods........

Some of the most moral and happy people I know are atheists.
The sad lot are those who can never accept their own mortality, like a child that can never grow up.

Leonthecat
02-25-2018, 09:29 PM
We're all just ppl. But as I pointed out, they don't have a father/mother-figure deity like Western religions. There is a definite belief in an afterlife though, common to most faiths.

Gitchi-Manidoo, Great Spirit, God. All variations on the same theme offering a magical afterlife in exchange for compliance to the supersticion.
It's really just a new world iteration of the same fallabilties exhibited by all religions.

Jade Dragon
02-25-2018, 09:30 PM
Belief in God is something you have to see both within, and outside yourself. I'm not like some Christians that feel they need to convert people. I find that a nutty idea, as like I said you have to understand it through your own perception to truly understand it. People trying to tell you how they see won't help, and can create aversions to the very idea, so I won't even try.

MAGA MAN
02-25-2018, 09:36 PM
Francis is clearly confused here. LOL

Leonthecat
02-25-2018, 09:37 PM
Francis is clearly confused here. LOL


Why would Jeb be flying the flag of Southern Democrats? Hillary had one in her office, back when it was fashionable.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--57aeMBKU--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/1330541004431583665.jpg

Cancel 2019.1
02-25-2018, 09:38 PM
So did you kill yourself to begin your eternal life you are so sure about?

No because I was given a mission

Leonthecat
02-25-2018, 09:44 PM
No because I was given a mission

But you certainly would have, had you not received your "mission"?

https://i.imgur.com/PoG82bu.gif

Who sent you on this "mission"?

ThatOwlWoman
02-25-2018, 09:57 PM
Some of the most moral and happy people I know are atheists.
The sad lot are those who can never accept their own morality, like a child that can never grow up.

I agree, same here.

Cancel 2019.1
02-25-2018, 10:06 PM
But you certainly would have, had you not received your "mission"?

https://i.imgur.com/PoG82bu.gif

Who sent you on this "mission"?

AM I,I AM's,AM I!

USFREEDOM911
02-25-2018, 10:11 PM
Yeah...

...I don't believe any gods exist...

...and I don't believe there are no gods.

Anyone see anything illogical about this? (Some people do...and if YOU do, I'd love to discuss it.)

So you just decided to go off the deep end, huh Francis. :palm:

Mason Michaels
02-25-2018, 10:30 PM
AM I,I AM's,AM I!

I wonder if anyone knows what you said!I do amazing!

Leonthecat
02-25-2018, 10:32 PM
AM I,I AM's,AM I!

OOOOOOOOOKAYYYYYY

https://media1.tenor.com/images/51ad59726e65f8b2821e820a8d690d3f/tenor.gif?itemid=8425981https://media1.tenor.com/images/19f6a11050cf34a03404bd422b9b7db1/tenor.gif?itemid=7369894

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSYpcwHjStlGKkGFhKvJbrhiyy9W-OmgiK1XvKMo0fK8Na52tgSaQ

Leonthecat
02-25-2018, 10:41 PM
So you just decided to go off the deep end, huh Francis. :palm:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/eb/7b/d7/eb7bd7bf690b8a3094a1dd156438d1dd.gif

Q-Tip
02-25-2018, 11:38 PM
Yeah...

...I don't believe any gods exist...

...and I don't believe there are no gods.

Anyone see anything illogical about this? (Some people do...and if YOU do, I'd love to discuss it.)

Atheists should keep their non-beliefs to themselves.

Cancel 2018.1
02-25-2018, 11:44 PM
Atheists should keep their non-beliefs to themselves.

As believers should keep their beliefs to themselves.:wink3:

Q-Tip
02-25-2018, 11:59 PM
As believers should keep their beliefs to themselves.:wink3:

They do.

Leonthecat
02-26-2018, 02:09 AM
They do.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/White_menbo.jpghttps://previews.123rf.com/images/gorkemdemir/gorkemdemir1409/gorkemdemir140900363/31464116-liar-rubber-stamp-over-a-white-background-.jpg

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:33 AM
lol....no.....deciding to wait until there is unavoidable evidence isn't "making up your mind".....its a refusal to make up your mind......

It's called "hedging" your bet.

See, this way if he dies and there is no God then he faces no consequence; but if he dies and there is a God, then he can try to fall back on his comment of NOT saying there is no God.

:facepalm:

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:36 AM
at least agnostics are prepared to admit they don't know what the fuck is going on.......atheists are the real sad lot.....stating that it is irrational to believe something without proof, then asserting there ARE NO gods........

I've never seen a group of people, such as atheists, spend so much time complaining about something they say doesn't exist.

It makes me wonder if they're trying to convince others, or trying to convince themselves. :palm:

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:38 AM
Francis is clearly confused here. LOL

He knows he doesn't believe; but it's just that he doesn't believe he knows. (:

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 05:46 AM
The idea of death is indeed terrifying even for those who are sure there's some sort of afterlife. It just makes sense: an organism that doesn't fear extinction isn't going to last long enough to pass on its genes to the next generation.

As a nurse I've attended the last moments of those passing on; have not seen any sudden conversions. As a human who has had two near-death experiences herself, I can tell you that at those times my only and overwhelming concern was what was going to happen with my children if I didn't make it.

Thanks for that OW.

I faced death myself several years back. Cancer...a rather aggressive thing that looked like it was going to win. At the bottom, I was down to less than 120 pounds...and looked like a death camp survivor.

NEVER for one second turned to religion.

MY GUESS: There are plenty of soldiers in foxholes...who have been atheists.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 05:49 AM
Francis is clearly confused here. LOL

You seem to be the one confused, Ooda.

Perhaps that is the reason for your avatar.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 05:52 AM
So you just decided to go off the deep end, huh Francis. :palm:

My name is not Francis.

I "decided" to go with the truth. That is what I decided.

I KNOW I do not know if gods exist or not.
I see no reason to suppose they cannot exist,
I see no reason to supposes they must exist,
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence to make a reasonable guess...

...so I don't.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 05:54 AM
Atheists should keep their non-beliefs to themselves.

I am not an atheist.

And why should my atheist friends not be as out-spoken as my theistic friends?

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 05:57 AM
It's called "hedging" your bet.

See, this way if he dies and there is no God then he faces no consequence; but if he dies and there is a God, then he can try to fall back on his comment of NOT saying there is no God.

:facepalm:

Agnosticism seems to me to be the reasonable way to go.

If there are gods...they will have to live with that being how I feel...or suck wind.

Matters not to me.

Frankly, if there are gods like most theists fear...they are not worth respect, let alone worship or devotion.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 06:00 AM
He knows he doesn't believe; but it's just that he doesn't believe he knows. (:

My name is not Francis.

I do not do "believing."

I do some wondering, though. And one of the things I wonder about is:

Why do people like you obsess about me, USF? What power do I have over you?

And why does it set you into a frenzy because I do not do "believing."

I wonder about it...and laugh, often out loud, while I am wondering.

;)

PostmodernProphet
02-26-2018, 06:37 AM
I am not an atheist.

And why should my atheist friends not be as out-spoken as my theistic friends?

????....are there any threads here entitled "I believe that God exists"?.............

PostmodernProphet
02-26-2018, 06:39 AM
If there are gods...they will have to live with that being how I feel...or suck wind.

I'm sure they will follow your instructions......gods are like that, you know.......

PostmodernProphet
02-26-2018, 06:43 AM
It's called "hedging" your bet.

See, this way if he dies and there is no God then he faces no consequence;

lol......those who have not chosen to believe and those that have chosen to not believe both face the same consequences.......

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 06:49 AM
????....are there any threads here entitled "I believe that God exists"?.............

Is that actually a question...or were you just playing with your keyboard?

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 06:50 AM
I'm sure they will follow your instructions......gods are like that, you know.......

If you are talking about how humans think gods (that may or may not exist) are like...

...why not say that?

PostmodernProphet
02-26-2018, 07:02 AM
Is that actually a question...or were you just playing with your keyboard?

you say you want the right to do what others do in a thread which has done what no one else does..........no it wasn't a question........it was a lesson.......

PostmodernProphet
02-26-2018, 07:04 AM
If you are talking about how humans think gods (that may or may not exist) are like...

...why not say that?

because I am talking about your BELIEF that what you might tell a deity would actually matter to the deity.......I can imagine you on judgment day telling YHWH, "you can't judge me!"......

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 07:11 AM
you say you want the right to do what others do in a thread which has done what no one else does..........no it wasn't a question........it was a lesson.......

If it wasn't a question...you probably should not have used FIVE question marks!

In any case, as usual, you are not making any sense.

At no point have I suggested that I want "the right to do what others do in a thread which has done what no one else does."

If it was a "lesson"...it is presumptuous, because you obviously are not intelligent enough to be teaching anything.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 07:12 AM
because I am talking about your BELIEF that what you might tell a deity would actually matter to the deity.......I can imagine you on judgment day telling YHWH, "you can't judge me!"......

I do not do "believing" so you could not have been talking about that.

Wake up.

evince
02-26-2018, 07:14 AM
because I am talking about your BELIEF that what you might tell a deity would actually matter to the deity.......I can imagine you on judgment day telling YHWH, "you can't judge me!"......

if the god you imagine does exist you wont pass muster bud

evince
02-26-2018, 07:15 AM
you say you want the right to do what others do in a thread which has done what no one else does..........no it wasn't a question........it was a lesson.......

there are lessons in questions


you just cant learn them

you are too sociopathic and stupid

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 07:16 AM
if the god you imagine does exist you wont pass muster bud

If the god he (and the others) imagine does exist...

...NONE of them will pass muster!!!

CFM
02-26-2018, 07:19 AM
Agnosticism seems to me to be the reasonable way to go.

If there are gods...they will have to live with that being how I feel...or suck wind.

Matters not to me.

Frankly, if there are gods like most theists fear...they are not worth respect, let alone worship or devotion.

Oh, another one that can't make up his mind. Hate to break it to you, old man but you'll be grouped with those that decided God doesn't exist. At that time, it won't matter either way for you.

CFM
02-26-2018, 07:19 AM
If the god he (and the others) imagine does exist...

...NONE of them will pass muster!!!

That's not for you to judge. Haven't you learned anything in 81 years you old bastard?

CFM
02-26-2018, 07:20 AM
if the god you imagine does exist you wont pass muster bud

When you get to meet God, you won't be able to play the Liberal "I'm sorry" excuse. Too late.

CFM
02-26-2018, 07:22 AM
lol......those who have not chosen to believe and those that have chosen to not believe both face the same consequences.......

God views those that didn't make up their mind and those that made up their mind in opposition to Him the same.

CFM
02-26-2018, 07:23 AM
Agnosticism seems to me to be the reasonable way to go.

If there are gods...they will have to live with that being how I feel...or suck wind.

Matters not to me.

Frankly, if there are gods like most theists fear...they are not worth respect, let alone worship or devotion.

What's reasonable about not having the guts to make up your mind?

ThatOwlWoman
02-26-2018, 07:38 AM
if the god you imagine does exist you wont pass muster bud

What an excellent statement; may I borrow it?

PostmodernProphet
02-26-2018, 08:56 AM
At no point have I suggested that I want "the right to do what others do"


to what else does this apply?.....

And why should my atheist friends not be as out-spoken as my theistic friends?

PostmodernProphet
02-26-2018, 08:57 AM
I do not do "believing" so you could not have been talking about that.

Wake up.

/shrugs...,...you simply deny believing......that is different.....

MAGA MAN
02-26-2018, 09:13 AM
Poor triggered Francis...

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 09:29 AM
to what else does this apply?.....

Why should they not???

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 09:30 AM
/shrugs...,...you simply deny believing......that is different.....

I do not do "believing."

Shrug all you want.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 09:31 AM
Poor triggered Francis...



I have not been triggered.

My name is not Francis.

You can call me, "Theguywhomademechangemyavataragain."

PostmodernProphet
02-26-2018, 09:34 AM
Why should they not???

dodge....try again.....

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 09:42 AM
dodge....try again.....

No dodge.

Why should they not?

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:00 PM
My name is not Francis.

I "decided" to go with the truth. That is what I decided.

I KNOW I do not know if gods exist or not.
I see no reason to suppose they cannot exist,
I see no reason to supposes they must exist,
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence to make a reasonable guess...

...so I don't.

It's called "hedging your bet", Francis and it probably came to you while you didn't know if you would survive the cancer; because you probably didn't believe you would.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:03 PM
Agnosticism seems to me to be the reasonable way to go.

If there are gods...they will have to live with that being how I feel...or suck wind.

Matters not to me.

Frankly, if there are gods like most theists fear...they are not worth respect, let alone worship or devotion.

But you can only believe there is no God, Francis; because if you knew it, you would proclaim yourself an atheist.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:04 PM
My name is not Francis.

I do not do "believing."

I do some wondering, though. And one of the things I wonder about is:

Why do people like you obsess about me, USF? What power do I have over you?

And why does it set you into a frenzy because I do not do "believing."

I wonder about it...and laugh, often out loud, while I am wondering.

;)

But you just admitted to believing, Francis; because you can't know for certain that I'm obsessing about you, nor can you know I go into a frenzy. :D

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:06 PM
It's called "hedging your bet", Francis and it probably came to you while you didn't know if you would survive the cancer; because you probably didn't believe you would.

My name is not Francis.

You did get one thing right. I didn't believe I would survive. I also didn't believe I would not survive.

That is because I do not do "believing."

You are fun.;)

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:08 PM
But you can only believe there is no God, Francis; because if you knew it, you would proclaim yourself an atheist.

My name is not Francis.

I do not "believe" there are any gods...and...I do not "believe" there are no gods.

That is because I do not do "believing."

Sorry that bothers you as much as it does.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:08 PM
If the god he (and the others) imagine does exist...

...NONE of them will pass muster!!!

How do you know, Francis, that they won't pass muster or is that what you believe?

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:09 PM
But you just admitted to believing, Francis; because you can't know for certain that I'm obsessing about you, nor can you know I go into a frenzy. :D

My name is not Francis.

And it certainly appears to me that you obsess over me.

And you do seem to go into a frenzy.

I do not know for sure...but I'm guessing in that direction.

But...I do not do "believing."

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:11 PM
How do you know, Francis, that they won't pass muster or is that what you believe?

My name is not Francis.

I certainly do not KNOW they won't...and since I do not do "believing"...it is a guess or an opinion.

Sorry I get your goat the way I do.

It must be hell for you.

I do enjoy it...so the "sorry" is kinda sarcasm. Ya know?

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:12 PM
My name is not Francis.

You did get one thing right. I didn't believe I would survive. I also didn't believe I would not survive.

That is because I do not do "believing."

You are fun.;)

But Francis, that would mean you either knew you were going to survive or that you knew you were going to survive.
So which one did you believe was going to occur, Francis?

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:14 PM
My name is not Francis.

I do not "believe" there are any gods...and...I do not "believe" there are no gods.

That is because I do not do "believing."

Sorry that bothers you as much as it does.

Doesn't bother me, Francis; because I rather enjoy pointing out that since you don't know what you believe in, you therefore can't believe in what you say you "know". :D

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:15 PM
My name is not Francis.

And it certainly appears to me that you obsess over me.

And you do seem to go into a frenzy.

I do not know for sure...but I'm guessing in that direction.

But...I do not do "believing."

Since you believe it appears so, Francis, explains why you think you know it's so. :D

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:16 PM
My name is not Francis.

I certainly do not KNOW they won't...and since I do not do "believing"...it is a guess or an opinion.

Sorry I get your goat the way I do.

It must be hell for you.

I do enjoy it...so the "sorry" is kinda sarcasm. Ya know?

But Francis; you didn't preface it with a "I guess" and appeared to be presenting it as something you knew.
But you have no way of knowing, unless you believe it to be so. :D

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:18 PM
But Francis, that would mean you either knew you were going to survive or that you knew you were going to survive.
So which one did you believe was going to occur, Francis?

My name is not Francis.

I was hoping I'd survive...and I did.

I didn't do any "believing."

You are allowing me to get to you so badly...that you are screwing up your thoughts. That "choice" up there is pathetic.

Try to keep up. Maybe even proof read your comments before posting.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:20 PM
Doesn't bother me, Francis; because I rather enjoy pointing out that since you don't know what you believe in, you therefore can't believe in what you say you "know". :D

My name is not Francis.

I can know things without having to do any "believing."

But you are so stretched out because I am getting to you so badly...that you can't even reason decently.

I'm starting to feel embarrassed for you.

Slow down.

We've got lots of time ahead of us for this nonsense.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:21 PM
Since you believe it appears so, Francis, explains why you think you know it's so. :D

My name is not Francis.

I do not do "believing."

If a thing appears to be so to me...it appears to be so.

It is beginning to appear to me that you are lacking in the "common sense" gene.

But...keep on comin'.

I'm here for ya.;)

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:23 PM
But Francis; you didn't preface it with a "I guess" and appeared to be presenting it as something you knew.
But you have no way of knowing, unless you believe it to be so. :D

My name is not Francis.

Lots of things I guess about...or suppose...or think...

...I do not use the words.

If you think that means you can put a "believe" in there...go on and think it.

It pleases me to see when I am getting under your skin the way I am.

You wanted this...so, I'm dishing it out. ;)

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:27 PM
My name is not Francis.

I was hoping I'd survive...and I did.

I didn't do any "believing."

You are allowing me to get to you so badly...that you are screwing up your thoughts. That "choice" up there is pathetic.

Try to keep up. Maybe even proof read your comments before posting.

But Francis - are you saying you knew that you would survive, after talking to the Doctor at some point; because even Doctors aren't sure that it won't return?

So you believe you're getting to me. :good4u:

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:29 PM
My name is not Francis.

I can know things without having to do any "believing."

But you are so stretched out because I am getting to you so badly...that you can't even reason decently.

I'm starting to feel embarrassed for you.

Slow down.

We've got lots of time ahead of us for this nonsense.

You say you don't believe; but then you say you believe that you're getting to me.

I believe I probably have more time ahead of me, Francis, then you "know" you do. :D

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:32 PM
My name is not Francis.

I do not do "believing."

If a thing appears to be so to me...it appears to be so.

It is beginning to appear to me that you are lacking in the "common sense" gene.

But...keep on comin'.

I'm here for ya.;)

From this post, Francis, I now know that I'm the one getting to you; even though you believe it's the other way around. :D

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:33 PM
My name is not Francis.

Lots of things I guess about...or suppose...or think...

...I do not use the words.

If you think that means you can put a "believe" in there...go on and think it.

It pleases me to see when I am getting under your skin the way I am.

You wanted this...so, I'm dishing it out. ;)

So you don't believe using the words is important, Francis; even when it provides clarity to what you think you know. :D

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:35 PM
But Francis - are you saying you knew that you would survive, after talking to the Doctor at some point; because even Doctors aren't sure that it won't return?

I said no such thing.

Of course it could return.

Are you hoping it does?




So you believe you're getting to me. :good4u:

Nope. I'm guessing.

And I'm also guessing I am correct.;)

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:37 PM
You say you don't believe; but then you say you believe that you're getting to me.

I believe I probably have more time ahead of me, Francis, then you "know" you do. :D

My name is not Francis.

I never said that I believe I am getting to you.

Don't start making stuff up. That is a forest you do not want to enter.

You are younger than I...so the time you have ahead of you probably is greater than the time I haves.

But...my guess is I am going to outlast you on this.

Not sure why you do this...but it was not very bright of you.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:39 PM
From this post, Francis, I now know that I'm the one getting to you; even though you believe it's the other way around. :D

My name is not Francis.

I do not do "believing."

You go ahead and suppose that you are getting to me.

That makes the fun even greater for me. ;)

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:39 PM
I said no such thing.

Of course it could return.

Are you hoping it does?



Nope. I'm guessing.

And I'm also guessing I am correct.;)

So you don't know if it will return, Francis; but you believe it won't.

What does my belief have to do with you?

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:41 PM
So you don't believe using the words is important, Francis; even when it provides clarity to what you think you know. :D

My name is not Francis.

Of course I "don't believe" using the words is important (whatever the hell you were mangling there)...because as I have mentioned a couple of times...I DO NOT DO "BELIEVING."

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:42 PM
My name is not Francis.

I never said that I believe I am getting to you.

Don't start making stuff up. That is a forest you do not want to enter.

You are younger than I...so the time you have ahead of you probably is greater than the time I haves.

But...my guess is I am going to outlast you on this.

Not sure why you do this...but it was not very bright of you.

But Francis; why did you say that you were getting to me, if you didn't believe it?

What is this "forest" you believe in Francis?

By guessing about your life span shows that you believe you'll outlive me; but you don't know.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:43 PM
My name is not Francis.

I do not do "believing."

You go ahead and suppose that you are getting to me.

That makes the fun even greater for me. ;)

And yet, Francis; you are the one who made the statement. :D

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:44 PM
So you don't know if it will return, Francis; but you believe it won't.

My name is not Francis.

I do not know if it will return.

I do not believe it will return...and I do not believe it will not return.

I do not do "believing."

I'm hoping it doesn't, but like my doctor said..."Even if it doesn't return, you'll have to die of something some day. So don't worry or think about it."

I don't.


What does my belief have to do with you?

Beats me. I don't even understand the reason for your question.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:44 PM
My name is not Francis.

Of course I "don't believe" using the words is important (whatever the hell you were mangling there)...because as I have mentioned a couple of times...I DO NOT DO "BELIEVING."

And once again, Francis; you prove that you do believe. :D

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:46 PM
My name is not Francis.

I do not know if it will return.

I do not believe it will return...and I do not believe it will not return.

I do not do "believing."

I'm hoping it doesn't, but like my doctor said..."Even if it doesn't return, you'll have to die of something some day. So don't worry or think about it."

I don't.



Beats me. I don't even understand the reason for your question.

There's no need to deny the obvious, Francis.
You don't know it won't return and you base your life on believing it won't.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:48 PM
But Francis; why did you say that you were getting to me, if you didn't believe it?

My name is not Francis.

I said it because I am guessing (AND BECOMING MORE AND MORE SURE) that I am truly getting to you.

You gotta work on that if you are going to keep at this Internet thing, USF.


What is this "forest" you believe in Francis?

My name is not Francis...and I do not do "believing."




By guessing about your life span shows that you believe you'll outlive me; but you don't know.

I am not sure of your age...you sound like you are in your early teens...but I am almost sure my life span will end before yours.

Not sure why you think that I don't...but I think you are getting so flustered...almost anything that you can type...you will.

I'm trying not to laugh at you too often.

I'm not being particularly successful at that.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:49 PM
And yet, Francis; you are the one who made the statement. :D

My name is not Francis.

Yes...I did make the statement that I do not do "believing."

So???

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:50 PM
And once again, Francis; you prove that you do believe. :D

That one was dumb even for you.

Of course I do not do "believing."

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:51 PM
My name is not Francis.

I said it because I am guessing (AND BECOMING MORE AND MORE SURE) that I am truly getting to you.

You gotta work on that if you are going to keep at this Internet thing, USF.



My name is not Francis...and I do not do "believing."



I am not sure of your age...you sound like you are in your early teens...but I am almost sure my life span will end before yours.

Not sure why you think that I don't...but I think you are getting so flustered...almost anything that you can type...you will.

I'm trying not to laugh at you too often.

I'm not being particularly successful at that.

AWWW, Francis; did you really believe that your attempts at denigration would change anything? :D

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:52 PM
My name is not Francis.

Yes...I did make the statement that I do not do "believing."

So???

So Francis, it means you can't do "knowing". :D

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:52 PM
There's no need to deny the obvious, Francis.
You don't know it won't return and you base your life on believing it won't.

My name is not Francis.

I do not know if it will return or not.

How would I live my life differently if I made a guess either way?

You are getting silly now.

And getting silly when you are speaking of the possible return of my cancer...is just plain stupid.

Silly is one thing...stupid is something else.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:53 PM
That one was dumb even for you.

Of course I do not do "believing."

Therefore, Francis, you can't do "knowing". :D

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:54 PM
My name is not Francis.

I do not know if it will return or not.

How would I live my life differently if I made a guess either way?

You are getting silly now.

And getting silly when you are speaking of the possible return of my cancer...is just plain stupid.

Silly is one thing...stupid is something else.

You do remember, Francis, that you are the one who brought this up.

Did you believe it was of some importance or had bearing on what you believe you know?

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:54 PM
AWWW, Francis...

My name is not Francis.


... did you really believe that your attempts at denigration would change anything? :D

With you?

I do not do "believing"...but if I had to bet...I would bet that you would keep coming for more punishment no matter what.

I'm here to dish it out...so keep on coming.;)

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:55 PM
So Francis, it means you can't do "knowing". :D

My name is not Francis.

I do lots and lots of knowing.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:55 PM
Therefore, Francis, you can't do "knowing". :D

My name is not Francis.

Of course I do knowing.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:56 PM
My name is not Francis.



With you?

I do not do "believing"...but if I had to bet...I would bet that you would keep coming for more punishment no matter what.

I'm here to dish it out...so keep on coming.;)

Does this mean, Francis; that you believe the reason you're here, is to "dish it out"? :D

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:57 PM
My name is not Francis.

I do lots and lots of knowing.

And that means Francis; that you also do a lot of believing, even though you don't know you do. :D

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:57 PM
You do remember, Francis, that you are the one who brought this up.

My name is not Francis.

I started a thread...that you decided to use this way.

I'm accommodating you. You seem like a very lonely guy.

I'm taking pity on you.


Did you believe it was of some importance or had bearing on what you believe you know?

I do not do "believing."

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:57 PM
My name is not Francis.

Of course I do knowing.

Which means you do "believing", Francis.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:58 PM
Does this mean, Francis; that you believe the reason you're here, is to "dish it out"? :D

My name is not Francis.

I do not do "believing."

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:58 PM
And that means Francis; that you also do a lot of believing, even though you don't know you do. :D

My name is not Francis.

It does not mean anything of the sort.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:59 PM
My name is not Francis.

I started a thread...that you decided to use this way.

I'm accommodating you. You seem like a very lonely guy.

I'm taking pity on you.



I do not do "believing."

Francis-Francis-Francis!!

Did you believe that my comment was about this "thread"?

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:59 PM
Which means you do "believing", Francis.

My name is not Francis.

I do not do "believing."

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 02:59 PM
My name is not Francis.

I do not do "believing."

And Francis, this means you can't do "knowing". :D

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 02:59 PM
Francis-Francis-Francis!!

Did you believe that my comment was about this "thread"?

My name is not Francis...no matter how many times you repeat it.

I do not do "believing."

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 03:00 PM
My name is not Francis.

It does not mean anything of the sort.

Is that what you believe, Francis? :D

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 03:00 PM
And Francis...

My name is not Francis.


... this means you can't do "knowing". :D

No it doesn't.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 03:01 PM
Is that what you believe, Francis? :D

My name is not Francis.

I do not do "believing."

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 03:01 PM
My name is not Francis.

I do not do "believing."

And Francis, this means you can't do "knowing". :D

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 03:01 PM
And Francis, this means you can't do "knowing". :D

My name is not Francis...and of course it does not mean that.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 03:02 PM
My name is not Francis...no matter how many times you repeat it.

I do not do "believing."

And Francis, that means you can't do "knowing"; no matter how many times you repeat it to yourself. :D

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 03:02 PM
My name is not Francis.



No it doesn't.

Yes Francis, it does. :D

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 03:03 PM
My name is not Francis.

I do not do "believing."

And Francis, this means you can't do "knowing". :D

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 03:03 PM
And Francis, that means you can't do "knowing"; no matter how many times you repeat it to yourself. :D

My name is not Francis...and it does not mean that at all.

But keep on coming. I'm here for ya.;)

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 03:03 PM
My name is not Francis...and of course it does not mean that.

Yes it does mean that, Francis. :D

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 03:05 PM
My name is not Francis...and it does not mean that at all.

But keep on coming. I'm here for ya.;)

It does mean it Francis; but is it your belief that I intend to "keep on coming"? :D

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 03:06 PM
Yes it does mean that, Francis. :D

My name is not Francis...

...and no, it does not mean that.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 03:07 PM
It does mean it Francis; but is it your belief that I intend to "keep on coming"? :D

My name is not Francis.

I do not do "believing."

I think you are fool enough to keep on coming back for more.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 03:08 PM
My name is not Francis...

...and no, it does not mean that.

Yes it does mean that, Francis. :D

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 03:09 PM
My name is not Francis.

I do not do "believing."

I think you are fool enough to keep on coming back for more.

That would mean, Francis, that you don't know; but you believe in it. :D

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 03:29 PM
Yes it does mean that, Francis. :D

My name is not Francis...

...and it does not mean that.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 03:30 PM
That would mean, Francis, that you don't know; but you believe in it. :D

My name is not Francis.

And it would mean no such thing.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 03:31 PM
My name is not Francis...

...and it does not mean that.

But it does mean that, Francis.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 03:32 PM
My name is not Francis.

And it would mean no such thing.

But it does mean that, Francis.

PostmodernProphet
02-26-2018, 03:44 PM
No dodge.

Why should they not?

refusing to answer the question is obviously a dodge......

PostmodernProphet
02-26-2018, 03:50 PM
But it does mean that, Francis.

you and Francis sure know how to fuck up a good thread......

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 03:51 PM
But it does mean that, Francis.

My name is not Francis...and it does not mean that.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 03:52 PM
But it does mean that, Francis.

My name is not Francis...

...and no...it doesn't mean that.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 03:52 PM
refusing to answer the question is obviously a dodge......

No it isn't.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 04:07 PM
you and Francis sure know how to fuck up a good thread......

I'm bored or at least I believe I'm bored and just don't know. :D

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 04:07 PM
My name is not Francis...and it does not mean that.

Yes it does, Francis.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 04:08 PM
My name is not Francis...

...and no...it doesn't mean that.

Yes it does mean that, Francis.

PostmodernProphet
02-26-2018, 04:09 PM
No it isn't.

all lib'rul cunts won't admit they dodge......

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 04:12 PM
Yes it does, Francis.

My name is not Francis...and no, it doesn't.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 04:13 PM
Yes it does mean that, Francis.

My name is not Francis...and no, it doesn't. Not at all.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 04:14 PM
all lib'rul cunts won't admit they dodge......

I'm not a liberal...and I am not a cunt.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 04:18 PM
My name is not Francis...and no, it doesn't.

Yes it does, Francis.

https://i.imgflip.com/25ckor.jpg

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 04:20 PM
Yes it does, Francis.

https://i.imgflip.com/25cka8.jpg

My name is not Francis.

It also is not Fracis.

Nice enlargement.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 04:21 PM
My name is not Francis...and no, it doesn't. Not at all.

Yes it does, Francis.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 04:21 PM
I'm not a liberal...and I am not a cunt.

How do you know you're not a cunt, Francis? :D

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 04:22 PM
My name is not Francis.

It also is not Fracis.

Nice enlargement.

Typo, Francis.

All fixed. :D

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 04:32 PM
Yes it does, Francis.

No it doesn't. And my name is not Francis.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 04:32 PM
How do you know you're not a cunt, Francis? :D

How do you know you are?

And, my name is not Francis.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 04:33 PM
No it doesn't. And my name is not Francis.

Yes it does, Francis.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 04:34 PM
How do you know you are?

And, my name is not Francis.

I don't believe I ever said I was, Francis.

How do you know you're not a cunt, Francis.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 04:35 PM
Typo, Francis.

All fixed. :D

Good. Thanks.

ACKNOWLEDGEMENT: I am a clod when it comes to doing that photoshopping or whatever it is that you did with the picture. I envy that you can do it...and do it so quickly. I cannot read the site mentioned in the finished product. Any chance you would share it so I can give it a try?

By the way...my name is not Francis.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 04:35 PM
Yes it does, Francis.

No it does not...and my name is not Francis.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 04:36 PM
I don't believe I ever said I was, Francis.

Oh...you are just acting then? Okay. Thanks for sharing what you do not "believe", USF.




How do you know you're not a cunt, Francis.

I know.

And my name is not Francis.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 04:37 PM
Good. Thanks.

ACKNOWLEDGEMENT: I am a clod when it comes to doing that photoshopping or whatever it is that you did with the picture. I envy that you can do it...and do it so quickly. I cannot read the site mentioned in the finished product. Any chance you would share it so I can give it a try?

By the way...my name is not Francis.

Are you saying that I photo shopped you into a picture with Einstein, Francis?

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 04:38 PM
No it does not...and my name is not Francis.

Yes it does, Francis.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 04:39 PM
Oh...you are just acting then? Okay. Thanks for sharing what you do not "believe", USF.



I know.

And my name is not Francis.

So you believe I was acting; but that doesn't answer how you know you're not a cunt, Francis.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 04:39 PM
Are you saying that I photo shopped you into a picture with Einstein, Francis?

No. I am saying that I am not sophisticated enough in cyber speak to ask what I suspect you realize I am attempting to ask.

If it is too much trouble...just forget about it.

And my name is not Francis.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 04:40 PM
So you believe I was acting; but that doesn't answer how you know you're not a cunt, Francis.

My name is not Francis.

I was not doing any "believing."

I am not a cunt.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 04:41 PM
No. I am saying that I am not sophisticated enough in cyber speak to ask what I suspect you realize I am attempting to ask.

If it is too much trouble...just forget about it.

And my name is not Francis.

But you made the implication that I was able to accomplish something; so you must have believed that I had, Francis.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 04:41 PM
My name is not Francis.

I was not doing any "believing."

I am not a cunt.

How do you know you're not a cunt, Francis?

PostmodernProphet
02-26-2018, 05:02 PM
I'm not a liberal...and I am not a cunt.
like I said, they never admit it.....

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 05:51 PM
But you made the implication that I was able to accomplish something; so you must have believed that I had, Francis.

I suspect you did. One of the other kids in the playground may have done it for you...so it IS a guess.

I do not do "believing."

And my name is not Francis.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 05:52 PM
How do you know you're not a cunt, Francis?

I know what a cunt is...and I am not one.

My name is not Francis.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 05:52 PM
like I said, they never admit it.....

Oh, is that what you say?

How 'bout that.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 05:54 PM
I suspect you did. One of the other kids in the playground may have done it for you...so it IS a guess.

I do not do "believing."

And my name is not Francis.

Aw yes, the liberals last bastion of frustration.
I see that you've decided to stay with your attempts at denigration; all as a way of venting your frustration, Francis.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 05:55 PM
I know what a cunt is...and I am not one.

My name is not Francis.

So you believe that you are a cunt; but you just don't know it, Francis.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 05:57 PM
Aw yes, the liberals last bastion of frustration.
I see that you've decided to stay with your attempts at denigration; all as a way of venting your frustration, Francis.

My name is not Francis.

So...was it you...or one of the other kids.

C'mon...you can tell us.

Frank Apisa
02-26-2018, 05:57 PM
So you believe that you are a cunt; but you just don't know it, Francis.

My name is not Francis...and I am not a cunt.

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 06:03 PM
My name is not Francis.

So...was it you...or one of the other kids.

C'mon...you can tell us.

That's it Francis, continue to show that you believe in what you don't know. :D

USFREEDOM911
02-26-2018, 06:03 PM
My name is not Francis...and I am not a cunt.

Francis - How do you KNOW you're not a cunt?

Frank Apisa
02-27-2018, 05:11 AM
That's it Francis, continue to show that you believe in what you don't know. :D

My name is not Francis...and I do not do "believing."

Sorry that causes you such distress.

Frank Apisa
02-27-2018, 05:12 AM
Francis - How do you KNOW you're not a cunt?

My name is not Francis.

Some day, if you ever figure out what a cunt is...you'll be able to answer your own question.

USFREEDOM911
02-27-2018, 02:06 PM
My name is not Francis...and I do not do "believing."

Sorry that causes you such distress.

See, there you go; believing in that which you don't know, Francis.

USFREEDOM911
02-27-2018, 02:08 PM
My name is not Francis.

Some day, if you ever figure out what a cunt is...you'll be able to answer your own question.

Therefore: You don't believe you can answer it; then how can you know you're not a cunt, Francis?

Frank Apisa
02-27-2018, 03:30 PM
See, there you go; believing in that which you don't know, Francis.

My name is not Francis...and I do not do "believing."

Frank Apisa
02-27-2018, 03:30 PM
Therefore: You don't believe you can answer it; then how can you know you're not a cunt, Francis?

My name is not Francis.

I know I am not a cunt.

I do not do "believing."

USFREEDOM911
02-28-2018, 05:00 AM
My name is not Francis...and I do not do "believing."

Then you don't do knowing, Francis.

USFREEDOM911
02-28-2018, 05:01 AM
My name is not Francis.

I know I am not a cunt.

I do not do "believing."

Why do you believe you're not a cunt, Francis?

Frank Apisa
02-28-2018, 07:26 AM
Then you don't do knowing, Francis.

My name is not Francis...and I know what I know.

Not sure why you allow that to bother you so.

Frank Apisa
02-28-2018, 07:27 AM
Why do you believe you're not a cunt, Francis?

My name is not Francis...and I do not do "believing."

Grugore
02-28-2018, 10:19 AM
Yeah...

...I don't believe any gods exist...

...and I don't believe there are no gods.

Anyone see anything illogical about this? (Some people do...and if YOU do, I'd love to discuss it.)

If there is no God, then why do we exist? Nothing physical can create itself. So where did the physical universe come from?

Frank Apisa
02-28-2018, 11:29 AM
If there is no God, then why do we exist? Nothing physical can create itself. So where did the physical universe come from?

From the same place you suppose your god came from?

Grugore
02-28-2018, 12:04 PM
From the same place you suppose your god came from?

I'm sure that it's been brought to your attention that God had no beginning. He is eternal. No beginning. No end. Quit trolling and try to come up with some rational arguments, if you're able.

Frank Apisa
02-28-2018, 12:09 PM
I'm sure that it's been brought to your attention that God had no beginning.

Okay...that is the answer to your question.



He is eternal.

He???

Why not It?



No beginning. No end.

Because you say so?

C'mon!




Quit trolling and try to come up with some rational arguments, if you're able.

Wow...at that point already!

Better you go back and play in the shallow end.

You are way out of your depth here.

Grugore
02-28-2018, 12:15 PM
Way to go, Frankie. It is obvious that you are not interested in honest debate. Congratulations. You are the first person to make it to my ignore list.

Frank Apisa
02-28-2018, 12:17 PM
Way to go, Frankie. It is obvious that you are not interested in honest debate. Congratulations. You are the first person to make it to my ignore list.

Good for me!

I'm sure there are others who are anxious to be number 2 on the list.

PostmodernProphet
02-28-2018, 12:32 PM
Okay...that is the answer to your question.



why do you hate science?......

PostmodernProphet
02-28-2018, 12:34 PM
He???

Why not It?

we prefer ze.......

Frank Apisa
02-28-2018, 12:51 PM
why do you hate science?......

What makes you suppose I hate science?

USFREEDOM911
02-28-2018, 01:00 PM
My name is not Francis...and I know what I know.

Not sure why you allow that to bother you so.

Gee, Francis.
You're a poet
But you don't know it. :D

USFREEDOM911
02-28-2018, 01:02 PM
My name is not Francis...and I do not do "believing."

Therefore; you don't know what to believe, Francis.

Frank Apisa
02-28-2018, 01:05 PM
Gee, Francis.
You're a poet
But you don't know it. :D

My name is not Francis.

And I have published many of my poems.

Frank Apisa
02-28-2018, 01:06 PM
Therefore; you don't know what to believe, Francis.

My name is not Francis...and I do not do "believing."


I'm still trying to figure out why that bothers you so.

Perhaps it is because you are so obsessed with me.

Frank Apisa
02-28-2018, 01:09 PM
He’s An Englishman Doing An American Accent




He’s an Englishman
Doing an American accent.
Which means he’s gonna use “gonna” a lot.

He’s gonna use “wanna” every bit as much.
And “Gotta” will be working overtime, too,
As will the double negatives.

If you are an Englishman
Who wants to do an American accent,
A great sentence to practice would be:

“I don’t wanna be no party pooper,
But I gotta be home by 10,
So I’m gonna leave now.”

USFREEDOM911
02-28-2018, 01:24 PM
My name is not Francis.

And I have published many of my poems.

Is that what you believe, Francis; because posting them, is not the same as publishing.

USFREEDOM911
02-28-2018, 01:25 PM
My name is not Francis...and I do not do "believing."


I'm still trying to figure out why that bothers you so.

Perhaps it is because you are so obsessed with me.

But Francis; why does is bother you so much, what I believe?

Frank Apisa
02-28-2018, 01:35 PM
Is that what you believe, Francis; because posting them, is not the same as publishing.

My name is not Francis.

I do not do "believing."

Publish: Definition: to make generally known; to make a public announcement of, to disseminate to the public.

So when you said that posting them is not the same as publishing...you were publishing the fact that you do not know what you are talking about...not that it needed to be published.

Beautiful day today...but I had things to do, so I could not play golf again.

Frank Apisa
02-28-2018, 01:36 PM
But Francis; why does is bother you so much, what I believe?

My name is not Francis...and it doesn't bother me at all what you "believe."

PostmodernProphet
02-28-2018, 02:00 PM
What makes you suppose I hate science?

because you reject what it teaches about the origin of the universe.....

Frank Apisa
02-28-2018, 02:16 PM
because you reject what it teaches about the origin of the universe.....

Not in any way do I do that.

PostmodernProphet
02-28-2018, 03:41 PM
Not in any way do I do that.

if you deny it has a beginning you do.....

Frank Apisa
02-28-2018, 03:50 PM
if you deny it has a beginning you do.....

I do not deny that this thing we humans call "the universe" seems to have had a beginning. (I've acknowledge that.)

Whether that means it is a "creation" or not...is definitely still up for grabs. It may be a "creation"...it may not be a creation.

If you think not...you are denying science.

Also...science is not sure of what comprised what we humans call "the singularity" that is at the core of the Big Bang theory...the special kind of "nothingness" that has been posited. The entirety of THE UNIVERSE...in other words "existence"...may NOT have had a beginning.

If you do not recognize that...you are having a problem with science.

PostmodernProphet
02-28-2018, 04:01 PM
I do not deny that this thing we humans call "the universe" seems to have had a beginning. (I've acknowledge that.)

Whether that means it is a "creation" or not...is definitely still up for grabs. It may be a "creation"...it may not be a creation.

If you think not...you are denying science.

Also...science is not sure of what comprised what we humans call "the singularity" that is at the core of the Big Bang theory...the special kind of "nothingness" that has been posited. The entirety of THE UNIVERSE...in other words "existence"...may NOT have had a beginning.

If you do not recognize that...you are having a problem with science.I'm not going to engage in the same argument with you in two places......as for this thread, let's just agree to disagree about how incredibly stupid your arguments are......

Frank Apisa
02-28-2018, 04:11 PM
I'm not going to engage in the same argument with you in two places......as for this thread, let's just agree to disagree about how incredibly stupid your arguments are......

There is nothing stupid about my remarks at all.

If you did not want to engage in the same argument in two different places...why did you take the issue up in two different places?

PostmodernProphet
02-28-2018, 04:23 PM
There is nothing stupid about my remarks at all.

If you did not want to engage in the same argument in two different places...why did you take the issue up in two different places?

the other thread didn't exist when the issue began here......