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View Full Version : Is it unamerican to not honor 911 with viewership ?



uscitizen
09-11-2006, 06:09 AM
Not sure if I stated that correctly, it is early and I was up late ;)
But I plan on not watching the 911 stuff today.

Damocles
09-11-2006, 06:23 AM
I will watch it. But if people are too upset I can't see how it would be unamerican. It would be unamerican to force you to watch it...

AnyOldIron
09-11-2006, 06:41 AM
I'm surprised we aren't having a two minutes silence in the office????

uscitizen
09-11-2006, 06:41 AM
Why do people want to reopen wounds and refresh pain suffering and yes hatred ? I can see why Bush would like it as a tool for the upcoming election.
I guess though my question is why only honor the 911 tragedy on it's annual holiday. I just think about it at times all year long, is this a pack mentality or being led thing? I just don't fully understand this annual remembrance tradition I guess.

uscitizen
09-11-2006, 06:44 AM
:) I wonder if the advertising rates for the media is higher for today .....

Damocles
09-11-2006, 06:51 AM
Anyway, 9/11 is Patriot day. If you fly a flag it is supposed to be at half-staff until sunset...

We did have our first moment of silence already, we will have another at the time the second plane hit and another at the times when the towers fell, etc...

uscitizen
09-11-2006, 06:57 AM
Yep lets keep the wounds open and the grief flowing....

Damocles
09-11-2006, 07:05 AM
Yep lets keep the wounds open and the grief flowing....
Do you really believe it wrong to remember? Don't watch, but also don't attempt to convert me. I haven't tried to convert you, it is insulting.

Dixie - In Memoriam
09-11-2006, 07:07 AM
Not sure if I stated that correctly, it is early and I was up late ;)
But I plan on not watching the 911 stuff today.

It's okay, I don't think they were counting on your support anyway, I am sure they can get by without you watching. Besides, it's good to do without TV entirely, for a day, which is what you will be doing if you don't want to see any coverage of 9/11.

uscitizen
09-11-2006, 07:11 AM
It's okay, I don't think they were counting on your support anyway, I am sure they can get by without you watching. Besides, it's good to do without TV entirely, for a day, which is what you will be doing if you don't want to see any coverage of 9/11.

Ahh Wrong again Dixie , or is it still. I don't think the movie channels and such will be having 911 anniversary stuff on all day :)

Cypress
09-11-2006, 07:12 AM
Why do people want to reopen wounds and refresh pain suffering and yes hatred ? I can see why Bush would like it as a tool for the upcoming election.
I guess though my question is why only honor the 911 tragedy on it's annual holiday. I just think about it at times all year long, is this a pack mentality or being led thing? I just don't fully understand this annual remembrance tradition I guess.


Celebrating and obssessing about defeat is stupid. 9/11 was a military defeat for us. A tasteful memorial, or a one-minute silence is fine. Day-long media and government obssession is over the top.

maineman
09-11-2006, 07:12 AM
today is my wife's birthday. We will go out tonight and celebrate.

I can recall how proud I was of her...on 9/11/02, she woke up bright and early and flew to NYC on a day that many folks were avoiding that city...she went to ground zero and spent the entire day there only leaving long after darkness had fallen.

...and she "reclaimed" her birthday and we've happily celebrated 9/11 ever since

uscitizen
09-11-2006, 07:13 AM
Anything worth remembering will be remembered without all the media blits on the issue...

Dixie - In Memoriam
09-11-2006, 07:29 AM
Well this clearly demonstrates how little respect and revrence you all have for your fellow Americans. Not that I am surprised, I already knew you didn't really give a shit. I think posts like these, show the rest of us, just why you don't have any support for the war on terror. You actually resent 9/11, because it took the focus off of universal healthcare or raising the minimum wage, or whatever your pet liberal issue was.

Damocles
09-11-2006, 07:40 AM
If, as it was implied before in this thread, this would help Bush in the next election and some are not watching because of that... Does this means that people are ignoring something because they are afraid that such direct remembrance may change their minds?

uscitizen
09-11-2006, 07:47 AM
If, as it was implied before in this thread, this would help Bush in the next election and some are not watching because of that... Does this means that people are ignoring something because they are afraid that such direct remembrance may change their minds?

Not me Damo. As I said anything worth remembering will be remembered without an annual media blitz on the subject. Besides how can wounds heal if you keep scratching the scabs off ?

Damocles
09-11-2006, 07:56 AM
Not me Damo. As I said anything worth remembering will be remembered without an annual media blitz on the subject. Besides how can wounds heal if you keep scratching the scabs off ?
There is a reason scabs itch. They are often meant to be scratched.

uscitizen
09-11-2006, 07:58 AM
There is a reason scabs itch. They are often meant to be scratched.
I would like to hear that from a DR.

Blackflag
09-11-2006, 09:14 AM
Today will be just like any other day for me. I know that sounds cold and I guess it is but I'm not very emotional about things like this.

Damocles
09-11-2006, 09:16 AM
I would like to hear that from a DR.
People never trust nature anymore. There is a reason it itches...

Gaffer
09-11-2006, 09:24 AM
I would like to hear that from a DR.


People never trust nature anymore. There is a reason it itches...

He only wants to hear it from a liberal Dr.

uscitizen
09-11-2006, 09:46 AM
hmm, I have not heard it from any DR. You two DR's ?
Actually my DR. Is running as a bush following Republican for state office. Same dirty tricks and rhetoruic and all that. So put that in your pipe and smoke it :)

Care4all
09-11-2006, 09:58 AM
I won't be watching. I went through the moment of Silence, I grieved and rethought about what Matt and I were doing that day, and how thankful we were that we were on vacation TOGETHER at that moment and not at work...separated....or in New York on Business that day, or even in the Towers themselves that day.... as selfish as those thoughts may be, we honestly were counting our blessings amongst the suffering..... :(

Anyway, survivor's guilt took over for a while after that....until we settled with it just being Destiny...for some strange reason, destiny.....I guess, a spiritual settlement with ourselves from within is how I would best describe this undescribable settlement....

No, I am specifically avoiding all of the shows the rest of the day....I don't need to watch it to remember all that we have been through as a country, "that", has been seared in to my brain and heart and soul forever and a day..... :(

I am watching a special on Einstein and Quantum Physics/mechanics and his struggle accepting it....the acceptance of "probability" verses facts......

it is very interesting....

Dixie - In Memoriam
09-11-2006, 10:04 AM
If, as it was implied before in this thread, this would help Bush in the next election and some are not watching because of that... Does this means that people are ignoring something because they are afraid that such direct remembrance may change their minds?

BINGO!

uscitizen
09-11-2006, 10:29 AM
Dixie anyione who would change their mind on the war after years of deciding are just wishy washy sheeple anyway. But then that is the definition of bushies isn't it. About WMD, about mushroom clouds, Sadam a bad guy,,,911 YEAH that is what the war in Iraq is about. :)

Dixie - In Memoriam
09-11-2006, 10:42 AM
Dixie anyione who would change their mind on the war after years of deciding are just wishy washy sheeple anyway. But then that is the definition of bushies isn't it. About WMD, about mushroom clouds, Sadam a bad guy,,,911 YEAH that is what the war in Iraq is about. :)

I actually thought it was about stopping the threat of Islamofascism from taking hold in secular Iraq, getting rid of a tyrant pain in our ass, while establishing a tentative base to fight the War on Terror. I never cared too much about WMD stockpiles, and didn't really figure we would find any, 14 months after telling him we were coming in. To me, it was more about his capacity to produce such weapons, and the technology that was vulnerable to falling into the wrong hands.

My mind has changed somewhat, because I think we would have been better off, given the liberal anti-war contingent, to have taken out Iraq, Syria and Iran at the same time, and without going through the UN or forming a coalition of the willing. Instead, Bush lolly-gagged around in Iraq, after pandering to the UN for over a year, and now has half the country against him. He would have been much better off, if he were like Truman or Reagan, and just did what needed to be done, with the full force of the US Military, no questions asked, and no permissions requested.

uscitizen
09-11-2006, 10:53 AM
Dixie, Dixie.... You should not lie like that about what you said in the past about WMD's. I may be getting old, but my memory is not that bad.

uscitizen
09-11-2006, 10:54 AM
He would have been much better off, if he were like Truman or Reagan,
//

you mean pull the people out of NYC after the 911 attack ? Like Regan did with the marines in Beruit ?

Dixie - In Memoriam
09-11-2006, 10:57 AM
Dixie, Dixie.... You should not lie like that about what you said in the past about WMD's. I may be getting old, but my memory is not that bad.


Dude, you can say what you want to, I have never said that WMD stockpiles were important to find, or that I expected us to find them. Your side has been the constant droners about that one, not me, I've been refuting that line of thinking all along. Of course, that koolaid moustache you have, might have something to do with why you are so dillusional.

Dixie - In Memoriam
09-11-2006, 10:58 AM
He would have been much better off, if he were like Truman or Reagan,
//

you mean pull the people out of NYC after the 911 attack ? Like Regan did with the marines in Beruit ?

No, I mean like Nicaragua, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki.

uscitizen
09-11-2006, 11:00 AM
Pick and choose Dixie. funny I thought we were talking about the war on Terror. But then you are right Iran/contra is very relevant to todays problems in the ME.

maineman
09-11-2006, 11:19 AM
Dixie sez:

I actually thought it was about stopping the threat of Islamofascism from taking hold in secular Iraq

one would think that we stood a much better chance of stopping the threat of islamofascism (whatever the fuck that is) from taking hold in secular Iraq if we had a strong secular baathist regime in place that would keep the lid on any islamofascist activity there..... a much better chance THAT way than doing what we did: removing such a strong secular baathist regime and allowing the islamists in Iraq to draft a constitution that codified Islamic sharia as the law of the land....

uscitizen
09-11-2006, 11:22 AM
Secular Iraq ????

TRGLDTE
09-11-2006, 11:27 AM
Why do people want to reopen wounds and refresh pain suffering and yes hatred ? I can see why Bush would like it as a tool for the upcoming election.
I guess though my question is why only honor the 911 tragedy on it's annual holiday. I just think about it at times all year long, is this a pack mentality or being led thing? I just don't fully understand this annual remembrance tradition I guess.

Unless we get to the truth (yes, that offends some people), we can not find a solution to the problem. Sorry to the Cool-Aid Clintonistas, but there was plenty of opportunity to head off 9/11. Bush hasn't done a real great job in the aftermath either.

TRGLDTE
09-11-2006, 11:30 AM
Yep lets keep the wounds open and the grief flowing....
Just last month, the Japanese remembered the anniversaries of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They should just get over it.

uscitizen
09-11-2006, 11:36 AM
If we are to move forward, yes we need to get over many aspects of these tragedies. Just remember them so as not to repeat them. Learn and heal, not grieve and moan.

LadyT
09-11-2006, 11:47 AM
Just last month, the Japanese remembered the anniversaries of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They should just get over it.

There has definitely been element of overkill with the exploitation of 9/11:

- New "security" fees
- more buracracy (sp?)
- air plane travel can be nightmare
- security alert levels
- work place security measures in place.....etc.

everyday there is some reminder of 9/11;we are literally submersed in reminders. Our normal routine of every day planning a lot times is centered around the possibility and fear of that happening once again. Our politicians and leaders exploit 9/11 for every dime and nickel they can get out of it, I and others would prefer not to subscribe to hollywood doing the same thing if we can help it. Tribute? Please, everytime I check into security, pass armed guards outside my job, read about an alert and pay extra 9/11, I'm paying "tribute" to 9/11. Watching all of these sappy fictional films won't change any of that.

..That is if you are insinuating that those of us who believe there has been an exploitative overkill of 9/11 aren't paying tribute or want to avoid it.

Dixie - In Memoriam
09-11-2006, 12:02 PM
If we are to move forward, yes we need to get over many aspects of these tragedies. Just remember them so as not to repeat them. Learn and heal, not grieve and moan.

It's okay, we all understand why you want to tune the 9/11 memorials out, it's part and parcel of your denial. By ignoring the memorials, you don't have to acknowledge the event ever took place, which is how your mind has become conditioned to think already. You don't want to face it, because that means you have to acknowledge it, and to acknowledge it, would mean you are obliged to react to it, which you've vowed not to do. Now, go stick your head back in the sand, and we will let you know when the memorials are over.

LadyT
09-11-2006, 12:08 PM
It's okay, we all understand why you want to tune the 9/11 memorials out, it's part and parcel of your denial. By ignoring the memorials, you don't have to acknowledge the event ever took place, which is how your mind has become conditioned to think already. You don't want to face it, because that means you have to acknowledge it, and to acknowledge it, would mean you are obliged to react to it, which you've vowed not to do. Now, go stick your head back in the sand, and we will let you know when the memorials are over.

This is a piss poor argument. Politics, security, immigration, travel, background checks, etc are all centered around counter terrorist activity. There is no tuning out 9/11 even if you wanted to. Every minute of every day we are all reminded in some small way of the massive security failure that happened under Bush's watch. It is not possible unless you don't go outside or have any contact with the outside world to be unaffected by 9/11 it on a regular basis.

Dixie - In Memoriam
09-11-2006, 12:16 PM
This is a piss poor argument. Politics, security, immigration, travel, background checks, etc are all centered around counter terrorist activity. There is no tuning out 9/11 even if you wanted to. Every minute of every day we are all reminded in some small way of the massive security failure that happened under Bush's watch. It is not possible unless you don't go outside or have any contact with the outside world to be unaffected by 9/11 it on a regular basis.


I think it's a piss poor argument to blame the only U.S. President to ever order a deployment of troops to fight the Islamofascist terrorists after an attack on us. I wonder what the Clintons are doing today to ignore 9/11?

LadyT
09-11-2006, 12:18 PM
I think it's a piss poor argument to blame the only U.S. President to ever order a deployment of troops to fight the Islamofascist terrorists after an attack on us. I wonder what the Clintons are doing today to ignore 9/11?

STRAAAAAAAAWWWWWWMMAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNN

That has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

maineman
09-11-2006, 12:20 PM
no one is blaming Bush for his initial deployment of troops to Afghanistan in RESPONSE to 9/11. We are blaming him for his piss poor response to the 8/9/01 PDB which he all but ignored so that he could continue to golf, and grill and chill on the longest vacation ever taken by a president a mere seven months after taking the job.

How much annual vacation do YOU earn when you start a new job? Would you even THINK of taking all of it seven months after starting?

Dixie - In Memoriam
09-11-2006, 12:23 PM
STRAAAAAAAAWWWWWWMMAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNN

That has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

It was in response to what you stated. No straw man, just a response to what you said, and it's absolutely true. It's absurd to blame 9/11 on Bush, he is the only president who has ever deployed troops to fight these people. Now, if you want to blame a president for failure to act, let's take a look at who's watch the USS Cole happened under, or the Embassy bombings, or the '93 WTC bombing... Let's look at our "massive security failures" when those events took place, and let's look at what the president did on his watch, to respond. Of course, you don't want to do that, do you?

maineman
09-11-2006, 12:27 PM
I think that finding the perpetrators of WTC '93 aqnd bringing them to justice is pretty impressive....don't you wish Dubya could have done that with OBL?

LadyT
09-11-2006, 12:31 PM
It was in response to what you stated. No straw man, just a response to what you said, and it's absolutely true. It's absurd to blame 9/11 on Bush, he is the only president who has ever deployed troops to fight these people. Now, if you want to blame a president for failure to act, let's take a look at who's watch the USS Cole happened under, or the Embassy bombings, or the '93 WTC bombing... Let's look at our "massive security failures" when those events took place, and let's look at what the president did on his watch, to respond. Of course, you don't want to do that, do you?

Actually it is a strawman. My comment was in reference to your accusing USC of being in denial, when he and the rest of us are constantly reminded of 9/11 on a regular basis. Are you going to address that or give us your republican puppet routine of blaming Clinton?

Unless of course you are a) denying it was massive failure or b) denying it happened under Bush's watch. But I don't think even you can be that stupid. But I have been wrong before.

LadyT
09-11-2006, 12:42 PM
I think that finding the perpetrators of WTC '93 aqnd bringing them to justice is pretty impressive....don't you wish Dubya could have done that with OBL?

I do. But I guess I got too used to reason and accountability in the 90s.

uscitizen
09-11-2006, 12:45 PM
My reason for posting this thread was a poll on CNN's website this morning. It assumed that all readers would either be observing the anniversary of 911 with eith a moment of silence and reflection or a group gathering. It left no none of the above option.
And with me being contrary to ordinary, I thought I will reflect on the 911 tradgedy when I am damn good an ready, not at someone elses schedule.

Dixie - In Memoriam
09-11-2006, 12:48 PM
Actually it is a strawman. My comment was in reference to your accusing USC of being in denial, when he and the rest of us are constantly reminded of 9/11 on a regular basis. Are you going to address that or give us your republican puppet routine of blaming Clinton?

Unless of course you are a) denying it was massive failure or b) denying it happened under Bush's watch. But I don't think even you can be that stupid. But I have been wrong before.

What happened under Clinton's watch, happened under his watch, I can't do anything about that, and it's not "republican puppet routine" to admit the truth about it. As for your "constant reminders" point, those merely serve as liberal talking points for how Bush has usurped our civil liberties, and classified as fear-mongering. This is because you are unwilling to face reality of what happened on 9/11. In fact, you are so willing to ignore reality, you have to fabricate false realities, like the "conspiracy theory" that Bush and Cheney brought down the WTC with controlled demolition.

maineman
09-11-2006, 01:00 PM
Lady T.... I don't recall your putting forth that theory....what, pray tell, is he talking about?

uscitizen
09-11-2006, 01:05 PM
What happened under Clinton's watch, happened under his watch, I can't do anything about that, and it's not "republican puppet routine" to admit the truth about it. As for your "constant reminders" point, those merely serve as liberal talking points for how Bush has usurped our civil liberties, and classified as fear-mongering. This is because you are unwilling to face reality of what happened on 9/11. In fact, you are so willing to ignore reality, you have to fabricate false realities, like the "conspiracy theory" that Bush and Cheney brought down the WTC with controlled demolition.

Projection on high beam :tongout:

LadyT
09-11-2006, 01:05 PM
What happened under Clinton's watch, happened under his watch, I can't do anything about that, and it's not "republican puppet routine" to admit the truth about it. As for your "constant reminders" point, those merely serve as liberal talking points for how Bush has usurped our civil liberties, and classified as fear-mongering. This is because you are unwilling to face reality of what happened on 9/11. In fact, you are so willing to ignore reality, you have to fabricate false realities, like the "conspiracy theory" that Bush and Cheney brought down the WTC with controlled demolition.

What the hell are you talking about?

#1) "What happened under Clinton's watch,......"

Quick question Dixie: Who was in office on 9/11/01?

#2) "As for your "constant reminders" point, those merely serve as liberal talking points for how Bush has usurped our civil liberties, and classified as fear-mongering. "


I suppose the 9/11 security that I pay when I buy a plane ticket isn't real, its just a make believe talking talking point, just like the longer waits in-line that ensued after 9/11 are all a part of the collective liberal imagination. I also suppose the new terror alert system is also a part of our collect imagination.

I have the impression that you are implying that I said it was directly Bush and Cheney's fault htat the towers came down. If so please provide a link.

LadyT
09-11-2006, 01:06 PM
Lady T.... I don't recall your putting forth that theory....what, pray tell, is he talking about?

I KNOW RIGHT! I don't know where he's getting that crap from. Actually I do. He can't address the issue at hand so he's going on a tangent instead.

Dixie - In Memoriam
09-11-2006, 02:23 PM
What the hell are you talking about?

#1) "What happened under Clinton's watch,......"

Quick question Dixie: Who was in office on 9/11/01?

#2) "As for your "constant reminders" point, those merely serve as liberal talking points for how Bush has usurped our civil liberties, and classified as fear-mongering. "


I suppose the 9/11 security that I pay when I buy a plane ticket isn't real, its just a make believe talking talking point, just like the longer waits in-line that ensued after 9/11 are all a part of the collective liberal imagination. I also suppose the new terror alert system is also a part of our collect imagination.

I have the impression that you are implying that I said it was directly Bush and Cheney's fault htat the towers came down. If so please provide a link.

#1) Who was in office on February 26, 1993, when the terrorists attacked us first?
Who was in office August 7, 1998, when they attacked us again?
Who's "watch" was it on October 12, 2000, when they attacked us yet again? If we are going to hold president's accountable for inaction against the people who attacked us on September 11, 2001, we have to go back to when the attacks started. If Clinton had done what Bush did, there might not have been a 9/11.

#2) No, it's not imaginary, I didn't say that, I said it is used as a talking point for liberals to bash Bush for usurping their civil liberties and destroying the Constitution.

I never implied that YOU said anything, I used the word "you" to refrence liberals in general, particularly the kook fringe who want to deny reality of what happened on 9/11.

LadyT
09-11-2006, 02:44 PM
#1) Who was in office on February 26, 1993, when the terrorists attacked us first?
Who was in office August 7, 1998, when they attacked us again?
Who's "watch" was it on October 12, 2000, when they attacked us yet again? If we are going to hold president's accountable for inaction against the people who attacked us on September 11, 2001, we have to go back to when the attacks started. If Clinton had done what Bush did, there might not have been a 9/11.



I never implied that YOU said anything, I used the word "you" to refrence liberals in general, particularly the kook fringe who want to deny reality of what happened on 9/11.

Ummm, the topic of THIS conversation was 9/11. YOU brought in a strawman to justify some piss poor diatribe that you felt the need to go on about Clinton. But I guess that is neo-con rule number 1: when in doubt no matter what the circumstances are: always blame clinton.

Getting back to the ownage at hand - YOU SAID:



By ignoring the memorials, you don't have to acknowledge the event ever took place, which is how your mind has become conditioned to think already.

Again, refusal to watch memorials on TV does not mean that you refuse to acknowledge 9/11 nor does it imply that you have not learned from the events or have a vested interest in shaping policy to avoid such a massive security failure that took place under Bush's watch.

Cancel7
09-11-2006, 08:05 PM
Well this clearly demonstrates how little respect and revrence you all have for your fellow Americans. Not that I am surprised, I already knew you didn't really give a shit. I think posts like these, show the rest of us, just why you don't have any support for the war on terror. You actually resent 9/11, because it took the focus off of universal healthcare or raising the minimum wage, or whatever your pet liberal issue was.

Who cares?

I have been working on a code pink project that has kept me busy looking at the names, ages and actual faces of the solidiers dead in Iraq.

Do you give a shit? No. All you give a shit about is how it makes bush look. Give it a rest already. A lot of us are on to this Super Patriot crapola, and you don't make ME blush in shame asshole.

Cancel7
09-11-2006, 08:11 PM
If, as it was implied before in this thread, this would help Bush in the next election and some are not watching because of that... Does this means that people are ignoring something because they are afraid that such direct remembrance may change their minds?

Maybe they can no longer bear watching that monkey milk and exploit those dead people. Maybe they wonder how you can stand it. Maybe they lost a loved one themselves in some other senseless act of violence, or accident, or illness and they wonder why their loss has no meaning to the entire country. Maybe they know that every year more Americans die every year, than died on 9/11, for lack of health care. Read that again, every single year, more Americans die from lack of health care, than died on 9/11/2001. And maybe they wonder why no one reads those names out.

Maybe there are many different reasons, for many different people, and maybe the only thing all of those people have in common is the wonderment of why a certain segment of our population are obsessed with these deaths, and appear to see no others.

uscitizen
09-11-2006, 08:26 PM
What have we learned from 911 ?
We still have not upgraded national building codes for skyscrapers as a result of the shortfalls in the WTC construction that contributed to the total collapse of the towers.
I have learned that politicians are totally shameless in using a tragedy like this for their political gain.

Damocles
09-11-2006, 08:36 PM
Maybe they can no longer bear watching that monkey milk and exploit those dead people. Maybe they wonder how you can stand it. Maybe they lost a loved one themselves in some other senseless act of violence, or accident, or illness and they wonder why their loss has no meaning to the entire country. Maybe they know that every year more Americans die every year, than died on 9/11, for lack of health care. Read that again, every single year, more Americans die from lack of health care, than died on 9/11/2001. And maybe they wonder why no one reads those names out.

Maybe there are many different reasons, for many different people, and maybe the only thing all of those people have in common is the wonderment of why a certain segment of our population are obsessed with these deaths, and appear to see no others.
You once again Assume and make and make yourself look foolish. Read the statement again and point out where I said I was going to watch it. Then ask yourself whether you just make assumptions all the time because you expect people to forgive you because you talk about swallowing bananas whole...

;)

uscitizen
09-11-2006, 08:45 PM
Swallowing Bannas whole Darla ?? Now I know why dano is after ya ;)