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View Full Version : Oh the Irony. Abu Graib Prisoners want Americans back



NewsBoy
09-10-2006, 10:00 PM
Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib claim they were better off with Americans than with their new Iraqi jailers.

More at link... (http://digg.com/political_opinion/Oh_the_Irony._Abu_Graib_Prisoners_want_Americans_b ack)

Damocles
09-10-2006, 10:07 PM
Something is worse than naked pyramids?

uscitizen
09-10-2006, 10:22 PM
Prisoners always whine.

BRUTALITOPS
09-11-2006, 05:00 AM
Something is worse than naked pyramids?

plenty is worse. don't be dumb.

Damocles
09-11-2006, 06:18 AM
plenty is worse. don't be dumb.
I thought it was funny sarcasm. I figured you all would have known that...

:D

Gaffer
09-11-2006, 10:08 AM
I thought it was funny sarcasm. I figured you all would have known that...

:D

Libs don't appreciate sacasism. They take everything said literally.

I'm sure the iraq guards there now are a lot worse than our guards who just liked to demean the prisoners. They are probably getting tortured and beat regularly now as opposed to being made fun of.

Care4all
09-11-2006, 10:12 AM
Libs don't appreciate sacasism. They take everything said literally.

I'm sure the iraq guards there now are a lot worse than our guards who just liked to demean the prisoners. They are probably getting tortured and beat regularly now as opposed to being made fun of.

fyi, Grind is NOT a liberal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

he's sort of, "one of a kind" actually.... :)

uscitizen
09-11-2006, 10:19 AM
Those darned prisoners complain if you hang em with new rope. Just can't please em.

BRUTALITOPS
09-11-2006, 04:21 PM
Libs don't appreciate sacasism. They take everything said literally.

I'm sure the iraq guards there now are a lot worse than our guards who just liked to demean the prisoners. They are probably getting tortured and beat regularly now as opposed to being made fun of.

damo's comment was the liberal one.. saying nothing could be worse than what we did.

Lol buddy, I am not a liberal.... for starters... I don't believe in taxation. I also don't care about the poor and would rather the handicapped die than get one dollar by me through force.

K? Thanks.

- Grind

uscitizen
09-11-2006, 08:33 PM
Libs don't appreciate sacasism. They take everything said literally.

I'm sure the iraq guards there now are a lot worse than our guards who just liked to demean the prisoners. They are probably getting tortured and beat regularly now as opposed to being made fun of.

So they are worse, does that lessen our shame for our behaviour ?

Cypress
09-11-2006, 08:38 PM
So they are worse, does that lessen our shame for our behaviour ?

The iraqi Interior Ministry is a known safe-haven for death squads and shia militia. I sure as hell would rather have american guards, than Iraqi Interior Ministry guards.

I don't think the Iraqi Interior Ministry is the standard to which we compare how good or "bad" we are.

We judge ourselves on american values.

uscitizen
09-11-2006, 08:43 PM
The iraqi Interior Ministry is a known safe-haven for death squads and shia militia. I sure as hell would rather have american guards, than Iraqi Interior Ministry guards.

I don't think the Iraqi Interior Ministry is the standard to which we compare how good or "bad" we are.

We judge ourselves on american values.

Yep, that old song of they are just as bad or worse than we are is sure a childish song....

Damocles
09-11-2006, 08:45 PM
Yep, that old song of they are just as bad or worse than we are is sure a childish song....
So is the song that we are all bad because of the actions of the few. We caught them, we punished them... Nobody credible cheered them.

Cypress
09-11-2006, 08:49 PM
So is the song that we are all bad because of the actions of the few. We caught them, we punished them... Nobody credible cheered them.

Its the policies that were bad. Not the american troops at large.

Alberto Gonzalez's "defintion" of torture is organ-failure.

Meaning, waterboarding, beatings (short of organ failure), and dog bites are technically not torture.

uscitizen
09-11-2006, 08:52 PM
So is the song that we are all bad because of the actions of the few. We caught them, we punished them... Nobody credible cheered them.

I have not said that, and some seemed to cheer them. Remember some equating them to college pranks and such.....
I am not totally sure that all involved were punished either.

Damocles
09-11-2006, 09:37 PM
Regardless, the likelihood is they want the Americans back because even what did happen was actually rare and they know that those who did it were punished. Not because we are "relatively" better, but because almost every one of the troops use those same American values...

I get tired of only hearing the worst, except in apologetics after the fact. "I'm sorry that you point out I'm not saying anything good, the vast majority blah, blah..." It begins to sound like platitudes and often, to the troops sounds like cheerleading the bad while downplaying the good....

uscitizen
09-12-2006, 06:55 AM
Damo, I really dont see a whole lot of good in invading and occupying Iraq. I do not blame the troops for this of course, they have to do what they are told to do by their commander in cheek.

Damocles
09-12-2006, 06:59 AM
Damo, I really dont see a whole lot of good in invading and occupying Iraq. I do not blame the troops for this of course, they have to do what they are told to do by their commander in cheek.
That we disagree with the invasion and occupation makes no excuse to use every mistake by American troops as a battering ram, painting them with the failures of others, marking them as failures as well.

Saying after the fact, "Well, I didn't mean all troops!" isn't quite the same thing as insuring that it is heard long before other people say, "Hey! Wait! The entire Army isn't acing this way!"

Damocles
09-12-2006, 07:01 AM
That we disagree with the invasion and occupation makes no excuse to use every mistake by American troops as a battering ram, painting them with the failures of others, marking them as failures as well.

Saying after the fact, "Well, I didn't mean all troops!" isn't quite the same thing as insuring that it is heard long before other people say, "Hey! Wait! The entire Army isn't acing this way!"
If all people hear is "Look at what the Army did!" and not, "Look, these criminals were punished and our guys do have American values and are paying attention to them!" what are we really saying.

Once again, it is like a propaganda mill, if all you hear is the "good" of something BEWARE, you are being propagandized. The same is for the opposite of the coin...

uscitizen
09-12-2006, 07:11 AM
That we disagree with the invasion and occupation makes no excuse to use every mistake by American troops as a battering ram, painting them with the failures of others, marking them as failures as well.

Saying after the fact, "Well, I didn't mean all troops!" isn't quite the same thing as insuring that it is heard long before other people say, "Hey! Wait! The entire Army isn't acing this way!"

???
So you cant refer to the despicable actions of one without hitting all of a group.

So if I call dixie a worthless piecs of excrement I am referring to all humans ?
or if I say the Abu grabass soldiers that took part in the problems there I am talking about all the soldiers everywhere ?
No you are on the wrong track on this issue.

Damocles
09-12-2006, 07:13 AM
???
So you cant refer to the despicable actions of one without hitting all of a group.

So if I call dixie a worthless piecs of excrement I am referring to all humans ?
or if I say the Abu grabass soldiers that took part in the problems there I am talking about all the soldiers everywhere ?
No you are on the wrong track on this issue.
No, that isn't what I am saying. I am saying that if all you hear is the negative from any source then the source is likely to be propagandizing you. It is best to use more than sources that "agree" with you when gathering information.

If you actually don't believe that it is effecting to your mind to pay only passing mention when called out on it to the fact that most troops simply would never act that way, then I think you are lying to yourself.

Damocles
09-12-2006, 07:15 AM
In other words, instead of stating, "The Army did this, and that is bad!" State, "These criminals did this and the Army punished their ass! Their actions are bad and hurt our efforts!"

uscitizen
09-12-2006, 07:25 AM
In other words, instead of stating, "The Army did this, and that is bad!" State, "These criminals did this and the Army punished their ass! Their actions are bad and hurt our efforts!"

but then I think the army's efforts as a whole, is bad in Iraq.
Remember now I am an ex combat vet and have a bit more right to criticize the Army than armchair warriors.
THE ARMY and the individual troops are different things.
The army sucks in my opinion, but individual troops can be great people.
Just like I think the republican party sucks, but I know some good republicans.

Damocles
09-12-2006, 07:49 AM
but then I think the army's efforts as a whole, is bad in Iraq.
Remember now I am an ex combat vet and have a bit more right to criticize the Army than armchair warriors.
THE ARMY and the individual troops are different things.
The army sucks in my opinion, but individual troops can be great people.
Just like I think the republican party sucks, but I know some good republicans.
I believe it to be opposite. As a whole the Army is full of great people who work to do good things in spite of sometimes contrary orders. I will not paint "most" or even a great amount of people in the Army to be bad people...

uscitizen
09-12-2006, 08:02 AM
I believe it to be opposite. As a whole the Army is full of great people who work to do good things in spite of sometimes contrary orders. I will not paint "most" or even a great amount of people in the Army to be bad people...
Not the people ie grunts and such, but the army.
Umm sort of like I think religion sucks, but I know a lot of great people that go to church.

Damocles
09-12-2006, 08:09 AM
Not the people ie grunts and such, but the army.
Umm sort of like I think religion sucks, but I know a lot of great people that go to church.
The Army is the sum total of the individuals that comprise it. They join because of that set of American values that are determined to be missing. Using your religion analogy, I will not trash the entire group of people for the actions of a few hypocrites...

uscitizen
09-12-2006, 08:22 AM
The Army is the sum total of the individuals that comprise it. They join because of that set of American values that are determined to be missing. Using your religion analogy, I will not trash the entire group of people for the actions of a few hypocrites...

Yep pretty much. I guess I have a different viewpoint of the army since I was drafted for a war that did not threaten the USA, and we did not really as a country set out to win.
The all volunteer army of today is a different beast and it will have a higher percentage of nuts in it. People joining for the wrong reasons. Kinda like cop and prison guards that are in those jobs for the wrong reasons. ie people that like the power.

Damocles
09-12-2006, 11:06 AM
Yep pretty much. I guess I have a different viewpoint of the army since I was drafted for a war that did not threaten the USA, and we did not really as a country set out to win.
The all volunteer army of today is a different beast and it will have a higher percentage of nuts in it. People joining for the wrong reasons. Kinda like cop and prison guards that are in those jobs for the wrong reasons. ie people that like the power.
A relatively "higher" percentage of an extremely rare commodity is commendable rather than condemnable. The people who join are good, attempting to say that Christianity is "bad" because you find a loud minority of hypocrites is not an accurate statement. Your opinion is bad, and that is easy to come by. One must practice at seeing more than what they want.

uscitizen
09-12-2006, 11:12 AM
A relatively "higher" percentage of an extremely rare commodity is commendable rather than condemnable. The people who join are good, attempting to say that Christianity is "bad" because you find a loud minority of hypocrites is not an accurate statement. Your opinion is bad, and that is easy to come by. One must practice at seeing more than what they want.

I can't disagree with that Damo. That is why I support the troops but not the war and despise those who tarnish the image of the vast majority of the troops.
You do understand what I was trying to say about the minor group of those who join for the wrong reasons though don't ya ? And how the all volunteer army amplifies this a bit because with drafted troops you get a broader cross section of our society in there.

Damocles
09-12-2006, 11:30 AM
I can't disagree with that Damo. That is why I support the troops but not the war and despise those who tarnish the image of the vast majority of the troops.
You do understand what I was trying to say about the minor group of those who join for the wrong reasons though don't ya ? And how the all volunteer army amplifies this a bit because with drafted troops you get a broader cross section of our society in there.

I do understand, and don't necessarily disagree. I am always impressed at the ethics and professionalism of the supermajority of the troops though.

I met some of the best people I know while I was in the Navy... So many more than when drafted also join for the right reasons.

uscitizen
09-12-2006, 01:03 PM
Yes Damo, I agree with the supermajority. but remember how one bad apple....
I know it is not fair . but it is perception and that is what most people pay attention to. After all , all of us in Nam were not baby killers....

On the enlistment during the draft. I tried to get in the guard or CG and was laughed at unlike Bush for some strange reason....
A good friend of mine enlisted in the Navy to avoid nam and the army and wound up on a riverboat in the delta ;)
I think we agree on this far more than we disagree.