Israeli Airstrike Destroys UN Observation Post

[OrnotBitwise]

Oh boy, that's not going to go over well. Four UN observers dead, at least allegedly.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/25/mideast.main/index.html

[Jarod]

I am sure it was accidental, but ugh.

[Cypress]

Oh boy, that's not going to go over well. Four UN observers dead, at least allegedly.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/25/mideast.main/index.html

whoa, that sucks.

[robdastud]

holy rollers should pay for it...take it out of the 700 club coffers.

[LadyT]

Had a feeling something like this might happen. The Iraeli's are going nuts. I think its time the US made a call for peace and stopped unconditionally backing Israel. This is not going to help us win the war on terror.

[BRUTALITOPS]

This news makes me very happy - but there is no information on to who was killed. As long as it wasn't an american...having un peacekeepers die puts a smile on my face.

ahhhhhhhhhh...

It's good to be back.

[Cancel7]

I wonder if it was anything like the smile I got when I heard SR had banned you.

Only, you know, much sicker.

Isnt' Grind cute?

I know some think you are, but you're about as cute as a serial killer, and I'm glad you got banned. I'm smiling now, again, just thinking about it.:clink:

[tianabautre]

This news makes me very happy - but there is no information on to who was killed. As long as it wasn't an american...having un peacekeepers die puts a smile on my face.

ahhhhhhhhhh...

It's good to be back.

Yeah. That's cool. Lets support and cheerlead a gov't that kills peacekeepers from the international community. That will make them extremely forthcoming when it comes to providing information on the WOT.

[BRUTALITOPS]

Yeah. That's cool. Lets support and cheerlead a gov't that kills peacekeepers from the international community. That will make them extremely forthcoming when it comes to providing information on the WOT.

Well in my defense I don't think we should pro-actively seek them out :)

darla: I have no problems with being banned per se, I just wish sr was honest about his reasons. If he just said: "Grind, I don't like you and I don't want you on my board anymore.." I would have found that a great complete and satifactory answer. But that wasn't the case...

If you wish to respond to this further, I suggest we do it in the whatever goes forum so we don't have to interupt the political threads.

Peace.

[tianabautre]

That's not cool and our continued support of this trainwreck will bite us in teh ass.

[Jarod]

That's not cool and our continued support of this trainwreck will bite us in teh ass.



Annan said it was intentional.... This could be big, for the UN secretary general to say Isreal intentionally attacked the UN!


If its a choice between Isreal and the UN, who do you think Bush will back?

[Cypress]

Breaking News: "Israeli Airstrike Destroys UN Observation Post
Four UN observers dead, at least allegedly."

This news makes me very happy - but there is no information on to who was killed. As long as it wasn't an american...having un peacekeepers die puts a smile on my face.

ahhhhhhhhhh...

It's good to be back.

Interesting.

Question: were you born without a soul?

[Jarod]

Interesting.

Question: were you born without a soul?


I agree, Grind whats wrong with you? :confused:

[BRUTALITOPS]

Interesting.

Question: were you born without a soul?

I consider the U.N. to be our enemy, who is actively trying to usurp our sovreignty. It's an ineffective, bloated, wasteful organization. The only good u.n. official is a dead one.

That's what they get for being in a warzone not minding their own business.

[Cypress]

I consider the U.N. to be our enemy, who is actively trying to usurp our sovreignty. It's an ineffective, bloated, wasteful organization. The only good u.n. official is a dead one.

That's what they get for being in a warzone not minding their own business.

Okay.

[Jarod]

I consider the U.N. to be our enemy, who is actively trying to usurp our sovreignty. It's an ineffective, bloated, wasteful organization. The only good u.n. official is a dead one.

That's what they get for being in a warzone not minding their own business.


So you would be happy to see ambassador Bolton dead?

[Jarod]

I consider the U.N. to be our enemy, who is actively trying to usurp our sovreignty. It's an ineffective, bloated, wasteful organization. The only good u.n. official is a dead one.

That's what they get for being in a warzone not minding their own business.


War zones are there business...:mad:

[BRUTALITOPS]

So you would be happy to see ambassador Bolton dead?

no, I have been saying as long as they weren't americans.

Bolton is the MAN.

[BRUTALITOPS]

War zones are there business...:mad:

jarod, do I know you from the previous forum? Despite our differences you seem to be a nice poster.

[Jarod]

jarod, do I know you from the previous forum? Despite our differences you seem to be a nice poster.


You do know me... can you guess who I am ?


Thanks btw.

[BRUTALITOPS]

lorax?

[Beefy]

lorax?


I think he's Jeepers. He's a vehement democrat whoever he is. Lorax could find fault in his party. But I've been wrong before.

[tianabautre]

So you would be happy to see ambassador Bolton dead?


ummmmmmm................

[tianabautre]

Annan said it was intentional.... This could be big, for the UN secretary general to say Isreal intentionally attacked the UN!


If its a choice between Isreal and the UN, who do you think Bush will back?

He'll back who ever cheney tells him to back.

[Beefy]

He'll back who ever cheney tells him to back.
Hell back Israel.

I'll truly give 100 to one odds. Any amount of money. 100:1

[BRUTALITOPS]

I think he's Jeepers. He's a vehement democrat whoever he is. Lorax could find fault in his party. But I've been wrong before.

no, jeepers talks like a hippie, and wouldn't be surprised as to what I just said above....

jarod has to be a moderate/realistic liberal person.. that doesn't know my viewpoints too much.

it's certainly not itsnotme (who's other name was ****** - lol I can say that here), maybe it's anyoldiron or ironhead.

[BRUTALITOPS]

Hell back Israel.

I'll truly give 100 to one odds. Any amount of money. 100:1

I will bet you 2 dollars.

[Beefy]

I will bet you 2 dollars.
Light weight. You're on. If I lose, I'll send you 2 crisp Franklins. When you lose, I'll get 2 crisp Washingtons. We'll u2u ddresses. I'm serious.

[BRUTALITOPS]

Light weight. You're on. If I lose, I'll send you 2 crisp Franklins. When you lose, I'll get 2 crisp Washingtons. We'll u2u ddresses. I'm serious.

me too.

So if bush does nothing, I win? what are the specific terms?

[Beefy]

no, jeepers talks like a hippie, and wouldn't be surprised as to what I just said above....

jarod has to be a moderate/realistic liberal person.. that doesn't know my viewpoints too much.

it's certainly not itsnotme (who's other name was ****** - lol I can say that here), maybe it's anyoldiron or ironhead.

Its not either of those guys.

1,000,000,000,000:1

[tianabautre]

This is driving me MAD!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/25/ap/politics/mainD8J39MM80.shtml

These are the same idiots that destabilized Iraq and led them into a civil war. What makes them the authority on "Peace"?

[Beefy]

This is driving me MAD!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/25/ap/politics/mainD8J39MM80.shtml

These are the same idiots that destabilized Iraq and led them into a civil war. What makes them the authority on "Peace"?
Interesting how it works isn't it?

This is why foreign policy is my #1 issue. These clowns create all kinds of disasters in their wake, and then claim to be the champions of peace. Anyone who still trusts the F. Government is blind.

[BRUTALITOPS]

me too.

So if bush does nothing, I win? what are the specific terms?

..? terms?

[Beefy]

me too.

So if bush does nothing, I win? what are the specific terms?

No, if he backs one or the other, the bet is on. He'll back Israel.

[Beefy]

Originally Posted by Jarod
Annan said it was intentional.... This could be big, for the UN secretary general to say Isreal intentionally attacked the UN!


If its a choice between Isreal and the UN, who do you think Bush will back?


Originally Posted by TianaBautre
He'll back who ever cheney tells him to back.


Now this is where the bet came from.

[BRUTALITOPS]

No, if he backs one or the other, the bet is on. He'll back Israel.

aw that sucks. I quit.

[Beefy]

aw that sucks. I quit.


Read 1 post above. I'll give you 12:1 that he'll back Israel on your terms.

[BRUTALITOPS]

Read 1 post above. I'll give you 12:1 that he'll back Israel on your terms.

Fine 12:1.

If bush does anything (including nothing at all) other than back israel, I win.

Backing Israel is defined as what?

I'll bet 5 bucks.

[BRUTALITOPS]

or and for the record, I agree with you. I am just trying to make things interesting.

[Beefy]

Fine 12:1.

If bush does anything (including nothing at all) other than back israel, I win.

Backing Israel is defined as what?

I'll bet 5 bucks.
Backing Israel would be any form of defending thier action with regard to bombing the UN. Excuses, whatever.

Deal?

[BRUTALITOPS]

we need to clearify that a bit more.. would that include bush publically speaking on israel's behalf and defending them with words?

[Beefy]

we need to clearify that a bit more.. would that include bush publically speaking on israel's behalf and defending them with words?


Allright, if you're going to get all ghey about the conditions, I'm reducing the odds to 2:1. Jeez, try to make a bet and all of a sudden you need a goddamned lawyer.

[Beefy]

You have 8 minutes to decide. I'm going to play a cheapie tourney on Paradisepoker....

[BRUTALITOPS]

im out. im not going to be your private bank :p

[Beefy]

im out. im not going to be your private bank :p


100:1 was a good fair bet. I'm surprised you didn't take it for a Jefferson.

[Beefy]

Anyhow, I'm putting on Sprach Zarathursta's "2001" rendition, and "American IV" as my tunes to sedate me for the tourney. See you later folks.

[Jarod]

Its not either of those guys.

1,000,000,000,000:1


You have not mentioned my old name yet.

[Beefy]

First time I was the bubble boy. Dammit! The fucking bubble. Overplayed my Ax. Somewhere I got to write this down.

[Beefy]

You have not mentioned my old name yet.
Just spill it. For the love of peter, who gives a fuck!

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Israeli Airstrike Destroys UN Observation Post

Damn... too bad they wasted munitions on something totally useless, huh?

[tianabautre]

I don't see how you people are so lax about this situation. I don't think any of you are so serious about the war on terror

[maineman]

on my desk there sits a photo of me and a French paratrooper captain standing next to the bullet pocked walls of OP Khiam.... on my birthday a quarter of a century ago! UN Observation Posts taking hostile fire is not new...but it is certainly no less terrible. OP Khiam sits right outside the village of Khiam and it is certainly understandable how it could easily become the center of a firefight.... this whol thing is very very sad.

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I don't see how you people are so lax about this situation. I don't think any of you are so serious about the war on terror

Well, I am "lax" because I support Israel, and think it was about time for them to take action to defend themselves from terrorists. It pisses me off when I hear idiots saying they need to "exercise constraint" or worse, trying to equate Israel with Hezbollah, as if they are somehow comparable.

These people are terrorists. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan recognize that, and they have given public support to Israel for taking action. The only people supporting Hezbollah, are Syria and Iran, and of course, the UN and other Anti-Semites. Israel can take them out too, for all I care!

This is 1940 Germany all over again, and some people still have their heads stuck in the sand, just as they did in 1940. Serious about the War on Terror? You bet I am, are you? That's the question.

[maineman]

If folks like Dixie were really serious about the war on terror, they would not have urged America to waste all that time, life and money in Iraq.

[LadyT]

Well, I am "lax" because I support Israel, and think it was about time for them to take action to defend themselves from terrorists. It pisses me off when I hear idiots saying they need to "exercise constraint" or worse, trying to equate Israel with Hezbollah, as if they are somehow comparable.

These people are terrorists. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan recognize that, and they have given public support to Israel for taking action. The only people supporting Hezbollah, are Syria and Iran, and of course, the UN and other Anti-Semites. Israel can take them out too, for all I care!

This is 1940 Germany all over again, and some people still have their heads stuck in the sand, just as they did in 1940. Serious about the War on Terror? You bet I am, are you? That's the question.

Well, who's your allegiance to? Israel? or the US? I for one am concerned with homeland security and making sure another terror attack doesn't happen on our soil. Supporting Israel blindly for obvious reasons is going to hinder that. And who are terrorist? The thousands of displaced, killed and mamed Lebanese children and civilians who had nothing to do with Hezbollah? They are clearly in the wrong for their actions and they are going to pay. There is no need to drag us down them. If they are going to be so emboldened as to hit civilian allies, let them be emboldened and let them stand alone.

[LadyT]

If folks like Dixie were really serious about the war on terror, they would not have urged America to waste all that time, life and money in Iraq.


True. I guess if you support draining Millions down the tubes for an unjust war I shouldn't be surprised about this.

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

True. I guess if you support draining Millions down the tubes for an unjust war I shouldn't be surprised about this.

The War on Terror is a global war, unlike any we've ever fought. It should actually be called, the War on Islamic Fascism, but in our PC world, I suppose that was too uncomfortable for the powers that be.

I feel sorry for the innocent people in Lebanon, just like I feel sorry for the innocent people in Iraq, Israel, and NYC, who have died in this war too. It's the regrettful part of war, and I wish it didn't have to be that way. Unfortunately, we are dealing with an enemy who hides among the innocent, straps bombs to their children and teaches them it is their purpose in life, to die killing us.

If you are honestly interested in preventing terror attacks in the US, you best get your head out of the sand and recognize this enemy for what it is. We've already tried appeasing or ignoring them, it didn't work. You can't appease terrorists, you can't negotiate peace with them, you can't ignore them. The only protection against them in the future, is to kill them now.

[LadyT]

If you are honestly interested in preventing terror attacks in the US, you best get your head out of the sand and recognize this enemy for what it is. We've already tried appeasing or ignoring them, it didn't work. You can't appease terrorists, you can't negotiate peace with them, you can't ignore them. The only protection against them in the future, is to kill them now.
Today 08:43 AM

And you need to get your head out of your a$$ if you think the cycle of perpetual violence is going to stop terrorism. That's the problem with you cons. You have a fundamental misapprehension on what the WOT is. Its a war of information that will not be won by brute force, but rather a collective initiative from the international community to share intel. This $hit they are doing now is not making ANY of us safer.

[maineman]

What Dixie fails to understand is that overly simplistic solutions to complex problems never work. To him, all angry arabs are our enemy.... To him, there is no difference between Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah and Al Qaeda.... he basically hates all muslims and thinks that they all are our enemies as well.... we need to take the keys away from the morons like him who have driven us into this ditch...and the sooner the better.

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

And you need to get your head out of your a$$ if you think the cycle of perpetual violence is going to stop terrorism. That's the problem with you cons. You have a fundamental misapprehension on what the WOT is. Its a war of information that will not be won by brute force, but rather a collective initiative from the international community to share intel. This $hit they are doing now is not making ANY of us safer.

We shared intel for years, we got 9/11 and Iraq. This is NOT a war of information, it is a clash of civilizations, and the sooner you realize that, the sooner we can defeat the bad guys. The "perpetual violence" is coming from people who have perverted their religion into believing it is okay to saw people's heads off and blow up innocents. Israel was told, 'land for peace...land for peace... land for peace!' and look what happened? They gave up land, they moved settlements out of the West Bank, withdrew from Gaza, withdrew from Southern Lebanon, and what did it result in? More violence and attacks on innocent Jews from the terrorists.

[maineman]

there continues to be this willfull refusal to understand the basic differences between the aims of arab nationalist movements and the aims of organizations like Al Qaeda....

[Jarod]

Dixie, Maineman has really faced you... No response?

[maineman]

Dixie is ignoring me so that he does not have to deal with those sorts of issues.... I just talk around him.

[Jarod]

Dixie is ignoring me so that he does not have to deal with those sorts of issues.... I just talk around him.


I see, well ignoring reality is about the only way he can hold onto some of the views he has expressed, so I guess it makes sense that he is also ignoring you.

You have to ignore others ideas and suggestions to hold firmly to many Conservative ideals... :cof1:

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Dixie, Maineman has really faced you... No response?

Hmmm.... Really?

All I see is...

maineman--This user is on your Ignore List.

Let me guess?

A. He is still arguing the same idiotic point about the subtle differences between various Arab Muslim terror groups, as if they are not all ultimately seeking the same Caliphate?

B. He is making some absurd claim that I think (along with Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan) that any good Muslim is a dead Muslim. Disregarding the fact that Islamofascists are to Islam what the KKK is to Christianity.

C. He's posting his sick perverted sexual fantasies about raping someones kid again.


I know it had to be one of these, which is why he is being ingored.

[LadyT]

We shared intel for years, we got 9/11 and Iraq. This is NOT a war of information,

And there is your problem. You don't underunderstand that information is a much more powerful in the WOT than military might. All we needed was a phone call or an email to prevent 9/11.

[maineman]

A. He is still arguing the same idiotic point about the subtle differences between various Arab Muslim terror groups, as if they are not all ultimately seeking the same Caliphate?

B. He is making some absurd claim that I think (along with Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan) that any good Muslim is a dead Muslim. Disregarding the fact that Islamofascists are to Islam what the KKK is to Christianity.


Hamas is seeking the end to Israel and the creation of a political entity known as Palestine.... they could care less about a caliphate.

Hezbollah is seeking to recreate the Iranian theocratic state within Lebanon.... they could care less about any caliphate.

Al Qaeda is seeking to destroy political subdivisions through the area in between the Mediterranean and the Indian Ocean.... they care very MUCH about a caliphate.... and they are attempting to arouse the anger of the arab/muslim street at the status quo. (To that end, they really wanted America to invade conquer and occupy an oil rich arab country...and they got their wish.... much to Dixie's continued glee)

In Dixie's black and white world, these groups are all the same... and, unfortunately, in Bush's world they are all the same as well. It is for that very reason that our foreign policy is such a total disaster.

It is like letting a butcher do brain surgery because he claims to be good with a knife.

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

And there is your problem. You don't underunderstand that information is a much more powerful in the WOT than military might. All we needed was a phone call or an email to prevent 9/11.

I disagree, and I think you show a complete lack of understanding about what we are facing. These people have been attacking us since the late 70's, and 9/11 was simply the point at which we woke up and began to respond with aggressive force. Don't mistake what I am saying, "intelligence" is indeed a valuable tool to have, but that alone will never defeat this enemy.

We are talking about, literally millions of people, who have listened to the Mullah's and Cleric's, who have been raised and educated in an environment, to hate America and Israel, and they have so perverted their religious teachings, as to endorse barbarism in the name of reaching their objectives, which include the annihilation of Israel and all "infidels" who don't subscribe to their 5th Century Muhammad Law, including Muslims.

Sticking our heads in the sand and pretending this is anything less than what it is, will only result in them gaining strength and momentum, and will never result in their defeat. It is time for the whole world to stand up to them and say, "Enough!" We simply can't continue to view this as some sort of law enforcement problem, or isolated situation, we have American citizens being killed because of it, and it's time to put a stop to it, once and for all.

[maineman]

millions of arabs are our enemies?

and when I say that Dixie thinks that the only good arabg is a dead arab, he disagrees with that?

[Jarod]

Hamas is seeking the end to Israel and the creation of a political entity known as Palestine.... they could care less about a caliphate.

Hezbollah is seeking to recreate the Iranian theocratic state within Lebanon.... they could care less about any caliphate.

Al Qaeda is seeking to destroy political subdivisions through the area in between the Mediterranean and the Indian Ocean.... they care very MUCH about a caliphate.... and they are attempting to arouse the anger of the arab/muslim street at the status quo. (To that end, they really wanted America to invade conquer and occupy an oil rich arab country...and they got their wish.... much to Dixie's continued glee)

In Dixie's black and white world, these groups are all the same... and, unfortunately, in Bush's world they are all the same as well. It is for that very reason that our foreign policy is such a total disaster.

It is like letting a butcher do brain surgery because he claims to be good with a knife.
x

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I guess I'll have to put Jarod on the Ignore list too.

[maineman]

if dixie puts everone on HIS ignore list, he will be totally unaware when everyone else ignores HIM.... that really is not that bad an outcome!

My guess is, in that scenario, he might actually win a few arguments.

lol

[Jarod]

I guess I'll have to put Jarod on the Ignore list too.


Ohhh a threat!

[Cypress]

if dixie puts everone on HIS ignore list, he will be totally unaware when everyone else ignores HIM.... that really is not that bad an outcome!

My guess is, in that scenario, he might actually win a few arguments.

lol


LOL

Hey Jarod, consider Dixie's threat to be a badge of honor. Anyone who makes him look foolish enough (which isn't hard), is bound to get threatened with the ignore list.

[maineman]

methinks that anyone who quotes any of MY posts in a Dixie thread runs the "risk" of being ignored by him. He really does not want to have to deal with my attacks against his arguments...

[Jarod]

LOL

Hey Jarod, consider Dixie's threat to be a badge of honor. Anyone who makes him look foolish enough (which isn't hard), is bound to get threatened with the ignore list.


Yup, I guess you are correct. Soon only conservatives who agree with everything he says will be the only ones he sees discussing anything. Much like life in Alabama.

[maineman]

As someone who spent many a night in that very observation post that was bombed, I think that the fault lie in the UN leadership. Those four observers were unarmed members of an organization called the UN Truce Supervision Organization. Once Israel started a significant military offensive, there was no more truce to supervise. Those four observers at OP Khiam, along with the four at OP Lab and OP Hin and OP Ras and OP Mar should have all been called in out of the field. OP Khiam was IMMEDIATELY adjacent to the village of Khiam, just a few clicks south of Nabatiye and the Litani River.... the village was a target in the Israeli offensive. They dropped bombs on the village at night and one of them hit the OP. It should have been empty at the time

[FUCK THE POLICE]

I consider the U.N. to be our enemy, who is actively trying to usurp our sovreignty. It's an ineffective, bloated, wasteful organization. The only good u.n. official is a dead one.

That's what they get for being in a warzone not minding their own business.


That's assanine, Grind.

[OrnotBitwise]

That's assanine, Grind.
That's redundant, Watermark.

:cof1:

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

LOL

Hey Jarod, consider Dixie's threat to be a badge of honor. Anyone who makes him look foolish enough (which isn't hard), is bound to get threatened with the ignore list.

LOL... My "threat" to ignore Jarod had absolutely nothing to do with him making me look foolish or his disagreeing with me. It has to do with the ignore feature, which I use to filter out child predators I don't care to communicate with. He posted a child predator's quote in his post above, without any further comment, simply because he wished to force the child predator's views to be seen by me, when I clearly stated the child predator was being ignored. If I have to also ignore Jarod, to keep from viewing something I choose not to view, then I will. Simple as that. And it's not a "threat" it's a damn promise.

[maineman]

::yawn::

I am no child predator.... Dixie's faux outrage is just that. Dixie accused me of being a pedophile and gave repeated and solid credence to the slanderous reports of others who had suggested that I had raped my own son. He refused to apologize even though I gave him plenty of opportunity to do so.... so one night, after a few mojitos, I decided to play by his rules. The next morning, when sobriety arrived with the daylight, I promptly apologized to him and to the board. Something he has NEVER done for me.

I am a normal guy.... with normal kids whom I have raised well. I have never abandoned my children or allowed them to slip away from my care and influence. My children have NEVER had to find ME by searching the web! If I had ever lost track of MY kids (which I would NEVER do), I would be the one finding THEM, not the other way around.

I am a staunch democrat who routinely beats Dixie like a drum on issues concerning foreign affairs. He is using this feigned outrage now to avoid those frequent whippings. I don't really BLAME him, and it does fit with the rest of his lifelong pursuit of cowardice.

[Cypress]

::yawn::

I am no child predator.... Dixie's faux outrage is just that. Dixie accused me of being a pedophile and gave repeated and solid credence to the slanderous reports of others who had suggested that I had raped my own son. He refused to apologize even though I gave him plenty of opportunity to do so.... so one night, after a few mojitos, I decided to play by his rules. The next morning, when sobriety arrived with the daylight, I promptly apologized to him and to the board. Something he has NEVER done for me.

I am a normal guy.... with normal kids whom I have raised well. I have never abandoned my children or allowed them to slip away from my care and influence. My children have NEVER had to find ME by searching the web! If I had ever lost track of MY kids (which I would NEVER do), I would be the one finding THEM, not the other way around.

I am a staunch democrat who routinely beats Dixie like a drum on issues concerning foreign affairs. He is using this feigned outrage now to avoid those frequent whippings. I don't really BLAME him, and it does fit with the rest of his lifelong pursuit of cowardice.

I wish Dixie would go back to debating you. I must admit, it was good entertainment!

[maineman]

I wish Dixie would go back to debating you. I must admit, it was good entertainment!

I also found it entertaining..... and it was great for my ego! LOL

[LadyT]

Tha'ts how I feel about conservative talk radio. Its one gigantic ego boost after another!

[maineman]

this fake indignation of his is pretty stupid... He should just have hollered "Uncle" and be done with it.

[maineman]

I say again:
I think that the fault lie in the UN leadership. Those four observers were unarmed members of an organization called the UN Truce Supervision Organization. Once Israel started a significant military offensive, there was no more truce to supervise. Those four observers at OP Khiam, along with the four at OP Lab and OP Hin and OP Ras and OP Mar should have all been called in out of the field. OP Khiam was IMMEDIATELY adjacent to the village of Khiam, just a few clicks south of Nabatiye and the Litani River.... the village was a target in the Israeli offensive. They dropped bombs on the village at night and one of them hit the OP. It should have been empty at the time

[maineman]

bump

[Beefy]

So, Israel bombing a clearly marked UN building and killing 4 UN officials is the fault of the UN? Please clarify.

[maineman]

1. it was at night.... UN markings on the roof of an OP are not lit up.
2. UNTSO was there to "supervise" a "truce" Once war started, and there was no "truce" to "supervise", they had no reason to be there and should have been pulled, along with the observers in the other four UNTSO observation posts in southern lebanon rather than keep them in harm's way for no purpose. I fault the chief of OGL (Observer Group Lebanon) totally.

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

It's the fault of Hezbollah, who acted in cowardice, trying to hide near a UNOP, while they lobbed their bombs at the innocent people of Israel. A message from one of the 4 dead UN observers, says as much.

[maineman]

the fact remains, the UN observers should NEVER have been there "supervising" a "truce" that was non-existent. They should have all been recalled to the HQ in Naquora the minute the shooting started in earnest.

[maineman]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14074483/

a day late and a dollar short..

[maineman]

bump

[maineman]

bump for beefy

[Beefy]

1. it was at night.... UN markings on the roof of an OP are not lit up.
2. UNTSO was there to "supervise" a "truce" Once war started, and there was no "truce" to "supervise", they had no reason to be there and should have been pulled, along with the observers in the other four UNTSO observation posts in southern lebanon rather than keep them in harm's way for no purpose. I fault the chief of OGL (Observer Group Lebanon) totally.


I have to believe that Israel knows where the UN posts are. They must know this, they are the most sophisticated, militarily advanced, well funded military in the middle east. I highly doubt that they wouldn't know their target, and if they don't then they are waging a reckless war that really isn't that different from shooting rockets arbitrarily.

UNTSO is probably a bureaucratic mes like the rest of the UN.. Perhaps there is a bit of responsibility on the higher ups putting people in a warzone when they need not be there, but this is typical of the UN.

Bottom line, I get your point, but I do not absolve either party of any responsibility. Sadly, this is really turning into a war, rather than a skirmish. Its fucking awful, and I really wish it didn't have to be this way, but there are really no solutions to this problem that are viable in practice. However, it is imperative that civilian loss of live is minimized. The irony of the situation is that soldier deaths are relatively meaningless to either side, it is the civilian deaths on Lebanon's side that give Lebanon creedence in their battle. We both know that there will be far more civilian deaths north of the border.

That's the flake the snowball will be built upon.

[BRUTALITOPS]

i don't know a good war will provide a lot of entertainment for a while. it's also kinda nice for the whole world to be pissed off at a different country for a change.

god bless israel for taking some of the heat, that's a team player.

[Beefy]

i don't know a good war will provide a lot of entertainment for a while. it's also kinda nice for the whole world to be pissed off at a different country for a change.

god bless israel for taking some of the heat, that's a team player.

Israel's heat is our heat. Good god man, surely you know this by now.

[maineman]

beefy...Israel knows exactly where the observation posts are....I know right where they are. I have spent many weeks in that OP in Khiam...it is literally across a dirt path from the rest of the city of Khiam.... I have no idea if Hezbollah had rocket launchers right next door or not...but if they did, Israel has every right to go after those sites.... and the dumbass UNTSO/OGL bosses in Naqoura should have pulled every UNMO out of the field the minute the war went hot.

[BRUTALITOPS]

maineman, I know your a liberal but you're the man. +10 grind points.

[maineman]

why, thank you Grind....I am honored, I suppose

[Care4all]

this was an article printed on CNN, PRIOR TO THIS SKIRMISH....????

what provoked them to print this? it was prior right?

---------------------------------------------------

Hezbollah: Violence mixed with social mission

Monday, July 17, 2006 Posted: 0748 GMT (1548 HKT)


Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah speaks to reporters in Beirut on Wednesday.RELATED
• Israel bombards Beirut as fighting escalates
(CNN) -- The group called Hezbollah is on the U.S. State Department's list of terrorist organizations, but also participates in the Lebanese government. A few facts on the organization:


Hezbollah is a Shiite militant group in Lebanon.


The group was founded in 1982 in response to the Israeli invasion of Lebanon.


It opposes Israel and the West, and supports a fundamentalist Muslim government.


Hezbollah is regarded by the U.S. and Israel as a terrorist organization. It is dedicated to eliminating Israel and has formally advocated ultimate establishment of Islamic rule in Lebanon, according to the U.S. State Department.


It garners popular support among Lebanese by setting up schools, hospitals and other social services.


It has become a social/political movement, holding 14 seats in the 128-member Lebanese parliament, according to the parliament's Web site.


The word "hezbollah" means "party of God" in Arabic.


Sheik Hassan Nasrallah is the head of Hezbollah.


Hezbollah fighters operate with almost total autonomy in southern Lebanon, and the government has no control over their actions, according to The Associated Press. But Lebanon has long resisted international pressure to disarm the group.


....


Hezbollah is known or suspected to have been involved in numerous terror attacks against the U.S., Israel or other Western targets, including the 1983 suicide truck bombings in Beirut that killed 241 U.S. Marines at the Marine barracks and 58 at the French military barracks.

....

The 1996 suicide bombing of the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia, in which 19 are killed, was attributed to Hezbollah.


Hezbollah was blamed for the 1994 bombing of a Jewish community center in Argentina, in which 85 were killed.

...

Copyright 2006 CNN. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Associated Press contributed to this report.

[Care4all]

here's the link...
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/13/hezbollah/index.html

[maineman]

care...what does this have to do with the UN OP being bombed by Israel? Am I missing something?

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

Had a feeling something like this might happen. The Iraeli's are going nuts. I think its time the US made a call for peace and stopped unconditionally backing Israel. This is not going to help us win the war on terror.

I suggest you research "Olam Ha Ba", and "ger toshav" to understand why we won't.

[uscitizen]

Yep we have to support the religion of Jesus Christ.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

Yep we have to support the religion of Jesus Christ.


He was a convert to christianity, because he believed in his own divinity. Believing in the divinity of christ is not a jewish belief.

[uscitizen]

He was not a convert to christianity ? How could he be? Christianity did not exist during his lifetime. Jesus was a JEW and so were his disciples.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

He was not a convert to christianity ? How could he be? Christianity did not exist during his lifetime. Jesus was a JEW and so were his disciples.


His beliefs were christian, thus he was the first christian. his disciples were also christians, though ethnically jews, and most likely considered bad jews by the rabbis at the time.

[uscitizen]

His beliefs were modified Jewish.
Christian beliefs did not exist until the religion was established, up till they they were just followers of Jesus, how can a person be his own follower ?
Do you know the definition of Christian ?
Most of the people thought he was going to be king of Israel.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

His beliefs were modified Jewish.
Christian beliefs did not exist until the religion was established, up till they they were just followers of Jesus, how can a person be his own follower ?
Do you know the definition of Christian ?
Most of the people thought he was going to be king of Israel.

Modified so much that belief in them is considered 100% not jewish, yes.

The beliefs preceded the establishment of the formal church.

Religion doesn't necessarily require followership.

[uscitizen]

Modified so much that belief in them is considered 100% not jewish, yes.

The beliefs preceded the establishment of the formal church.

Religion doesn't necessarily require followership.

100% not jewish ? Don't we still worship the god of Abraham ?
Do not many Christians still circumsize ?

You stance on this is just to ridiculous to even argue any more about ...

I have discussed this with Christian theologians, PHD types at a seminary...
they agree with me

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

100% not jewish ? Don't we still worship the god of Abraham ?
Do not many Christians still circumsize ?

You stance on this is just to ridiculous to even argue any more about ...

I have discussed this with Christian theologians, PHD types at a seminary...
they agree with me


But belief in jesus as the messiah puts you firmly outside jewish belief.

Christian theologians are all bought off noahides who've abandoned christianity, just like most allegedly christian churches.

And what did the "theologians" tell you? Christianity is judaism?

[uscitizen]

And what did the "theologians" tell you? Christianity is judaism?
//

Nope they said just what I told you before you tried to bend and spin it around.
That Jesus was a jew, not a Christian.

[AnyOldIron]

As long as it wasn't an american...having un peacekeepers die puts a smile on my face.

Fuck you little boy. I served as a UN peacekeeper. Come back when you've done something in your life.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

And what did the "theologians" tell you? Christianity is judaism?
//

Nope they said just what I told you before you tried to bend and spin it around.
That Jesus was a jew, not a Christian.


You're referring to race. Faith-wise, he was a christian. Can you understand the difference?

[AnyOldIron]

Modified so much that belief in them is considered 100% not jewish, yes.

The beliefs preceded the establishment of the formal church.

Religion doesn't necessarily require followership.

Errrm, early followers of JC still attended the synagogue until almost half a century after his death. There was then a schism between those who wished to follow Paul's teachings and abandon the Jewish faith, and those known as Jewish Christians.

You do realise that the founder of Christianity as you exercise it was Paul, not JC?

[AnyOldIron]

Faith-wise, he was a christian. Can you understand the difference?

JC was religiously Jewish. Christianity didn't come about for many years after JC's execution.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

Modified so much that belief in them is considered 100% not jewish, yes.

The beliefs preceded the establishment of the formal church.

Religion doesn't necessarily require followership.

Errrm, early followers of JC still attended the synagogue until almost half a century after his death. There was then a schism between those who wished to follow Paul's teachings and abandon the Jewish faith, and those known as Jewish Christians.

You do realise that the founder of Christianity as you exercise it was Paul, not JC?

He may have been the leader of the official social structure known as the church, but the beliefs were held and espoused by jesus himself. To me, religion is more about belief than where you go to pray. Jesus was a christian. Paul was a christian. The disciples were christian, because they believed jesus was the son of god.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

Faith-wise, he was a christian. Can you understand the difference?

JC was religiously Jewish. Christianity didn't come about for many years after JC's execution.

No. The beliefs existed in jesus himself, making him a christian, An ethnic jew who accepted christ as his savior. this state would also make a jew a christian today.

[AnyOldIron]

He may have been the leader of the official social structure known as the church, but the beliefs were held and espoused by jesus himself. To me, religion is more about belief than where you go to pray. Jesus was a christian. Paul was a christian. The disciples were christian, because they believed jesus was the son of god.

You aren't aware of the extent to which Paul created the Christian Church and brought together the first edits of many of the gospels? Ever read Gibbon's The Christians and the Fall of Rome?

And that the gospel writers never met JC, but wrote them many years after his death?

[AnyOldIron]

No. The beliefs existed in jesus himself, making him a christian, An ethnic jew who accepted christ as his savior. this state would also make a jew a christian today.

Do me a favour... Read up....

http://www.amazon.com/Christians-Fall-Penguin-Great-Ideas/dp/0143036246

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

No. The beliefs existed in jesus himself, making him a christian, An ethnic jew who accepted christ as his savior. this state would also make a jew a christian today.

Do me a favour... Read up....

http://www.amazon.com/Christians-Fall-Penguin-Great-Ideas/dp/0143036246

I don't need to read your Noahide propaganda. Jesus believed he was the son of god. That single belief makes him a christian.

[OrnotBitwise]

I don't need to read your Noahide propaganda. Jesus believed he was the son of god. That single belief makes him a christian.There's a whole lot of "Christian" inpatients in locked wards then. To bad they didn't have psychiatric hositals in 33 BC.

[uscitizen]

and you took on a debate with AHZ Ornot ? wow ;)

[OrnotBitwise]

and you took on a debate with AHZ Ornot ? wow ;)
Well, that's what I wanted to do. He had other ideas. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to figure out just what they entail.

Whatever it is, it's certainly no debate.

:confused:

[AnyOldIron]

I don't need to read your Noahide propaganda. Jesus believed he was the son of god. That single belief makes him a christian.

Do you know what Dead Dogma is?

[uscitizen]

Dead dogma is AHZ ?

[Lucifer]

Dead dogma is AHZ ?No, it's karmic roadkill.

Christ, I thought everyone knew that old joke. Fat boy's been using that since Henry Ford's day.

[uscitizen]

BTW lucifer, I been thinking...And yes I know that is dangerous.
Are satan Lucifer, devil, etc all the same person. If you read about you in the bible it is not necessarially so...But has been lumped together.
Are you getting blamed for stuff others do/did ?

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

I don't need to read your Noahide propaganda. Jesus believed he was the son of god. That single belief makes him a christian.

Do you know what Dead Dogma is?

Do you know what "retarded dumbass" means?

[uscitizen]

Do you know what "retarded dumbass" means?

Absolutely, it means Bush supporter. Check your dictionary.

[AnyOldIron]

Dead dogma is knowledge that is accepted as absolute on the basis of truth by authority, where ideas that challenge that knowledge are ignored and dismissed, to the stage where adherents can parrot the knowledge but don't understand the reasoning behind it and thus cannot argue in support of it.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

Dead dogma is knowledge that is accepted as absolute on the basis of truth by authority, where ideas that challenge that knowledge are ignored and dismissed, to the stage where adherents can parrot the knowledge but don't understand the reasoning behind it and thus cannot argue in support of it.

These are undebatably the beliefs of christianity. Christ's belief in them makes him a christian. We're not even discussing the legitimacy of christianity.

Your rant is mostly tangential and retarded.

[AnyOldIron]

These are undebatably the beliefs of christianity. Christ's belief in them makes him a christian. We're not even discussing the legitimacy of christianity.

What are? Dead dogma? You are barely making sense?

[Damocles]

These are undebatably the beliefs of christianity. Christ's belief in them makes him a christian. We're not even discussing the legitimacy of christianity.

What are? Dead dogma? You are barely making sense?
Basically when asking "What makes a person a Christian?" the ideas of Christianity or the dogma isn't really part of the equation, that is part of a different discussion.

Did Christ believe himself to be the Deity and the Savior of mankind? If he did, then he was an adherent to an as yet unnamed new religion, or cult, as Judaism did not consider him such.

[AnyOldIron]

Did Christ believe himself to be the Deity and the Savior of mankind? If he did,

That is something we'll never know, given that the gospels were written many years after his death, mostly by people who never met him....

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

These are undebatably the beliefs of christianity. Christ's belief in them makes him a christian. We're not even discussing the legitimacy of christianity.

What are? Dead dogma? You are barely making sense?

no. You're just too moronic to understand.

[AnyOldIron]

no. You're just too moronic to understand.

Stunning retort... Clearly demonstrates your debating ability..... lol

[Damocles]

Did Christ believe himself to be the Deity and the Savior of mankind? If he did,

That is something we'll never know, given that the gospels were written many years after his death, mostly by people who never met him....
Yet we must work with the evidence at hand. Saying assuredly that he was solely Jewish when the evidence we have to work with points in a different direction is simply ignoring evidence to solidify your belief. Something that I believe I have seen somebody on this board recently accusing another of.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

no. You're just too moronic to understand.

Stunning retort... Clearly demonstrates your debating ability..... lol

Lol. You're a funny clown!:clink:

[AnyOldIron]

Yet we must work with the evidence at hand. Saying assuredly that he was solely Jewish when the evidence we have to work with points in a different direction is simply ignoring evidence to solidify your belief.

Wasn't ignoring the evidence, was calling the evidence into question...

Jesus was brought up Jewish, and the only evidence he believed otherwise comes from extremely dubious sources...

That isn't ignoring the argument, it is challenging it....

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

Yet we must work with the evidence at hand. Saying assuredly that he was solely Jewish when the evidence we have to work with points in a different direction is simply ignoring evidence to solidify your belief.

Wasn't ignoring the evidence, was calling the evidence into question...

Jesus was brought up Jewish, and the only evidence he believed otherwise comes from extremely dubious sources...

That isn't ignoring the argument, it is challenging it....

Maybe jesus never existed. Making the whole argument pointless. Maybe there's no such thing as jews either. Do you believe jews exist?

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

I wonder if that's what the "theologians" told uscitizen, that jesus never claimed to be the son of god. Uscitizen? Your expertise please?

[AnyOldIron]

Maybe jesus never existed. Making the whole argument pointless. Maybe there's no such thing as jews either. Do you believe jews exist?

There is independent evidence that Jesus existed (Josephus) and that Jews exist.

What point are you trying to make?

[AnyOldIron]

I wonder if that's what the "theologians" told uscitizen, that jesus never claimed to be the son of god. Uscitizen? Your expertise please?

Can you think of anybody else who lived in the time of JC who was deified after death?

[Damocles]

Maybe jesus never existed. Making the whole argument pointless. Maybe there's no such thing as jews either. Do you believe jews exist?

There is independent evidence that Jesus existed (Josephus) and that Jews exist.

What point are you trying to make?
Josephus didn't know Christ himself. That evidence would be much the same as the Gospel of Mark, which is generally thought to be written by Mark (second generation Christian) who learned directly from Peter (Apostle, with direct knowledge of Christ).

One must realize that each of those are secondhand knowledge, promoting one to "truth" and saying that it is strong evidence while ignoring the other because it is convenient is selective reasoning and fallacious at its base. One must determine what is "acceptible" evidence.

Did Josephus not remark on one or two of the "miracles" associated with Christ?

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

I wonder if that's what the "theologians" told uscitizen, that jesus never claimed to be the son of god. Uscitizen? Your expertise please?

Can you think of anybody else who lived in the time of JC who was deified after death?


He deified himself in life.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

Maybe jesus never existed. Making the whole argument pointless. Maybe there's no such thing as jews either. Do you believe jews exist?

There is independent evidence that Jesus existed (Josephus) and that Jews exist.

What point are you trying to make?

the point Im trying to make is that you argue by selectively questioning the truth of some things, while accepting others as fact, which leaves no basis for even having a discussion with you. this is the idiocy nihilists use to never be wrong in their own idiotic eyes.

[AnyOldIron]

Josephus stated that it was reported that Jesus was a great teacher who had amassed a large following, and that his body went missing after his execution and that his followers stated he had returned to life.

He provides evidence of Jesus existence, but not of miracles, which are essentially not-understood phenomenon...

The differences in the two sources is simply agenda, Josephus as a historian, the gospel-writers as formers of a new religion.

If Jesus were taken up, and performing such miracles, then it would surely be recorded amongst records in Roman Judea, keeping in mind how fond the Romans were of recording every aspect of life, particularly anything untoward... This occurred well before the Jewish Revolt, during which the gospels were written, at a time of relative peace, so it is unlikely that it would have slipped by....

[AnyOldIron]

the point Im trying to make is that you argue by selectively questioning the truth of some things, while accepting others as fact,

On the contrary, question the truth of all things, and recognise that some are stronger, and some weaker...

this is the idiocy nihilists use to never be wrong in their own idiotic eyes.

I am not arguing from a nihilist position, and as for never accepting wrongness, aren't you religious???? lol

[uscitizen]

Yet we must work with the evidence at hand. Saying assuredly that he was solely Jewish when the evidence we have to work with points in a different direction is simply ignoring evidence to solidify your belief. Something that I believe I have seen somebody on this board recently accusing another of.

Oh he was more than just Jewish Damo, but not a Christian, they did not exist yet. He was what the Christian faith/religion was founded on, but not a Christian.

Don't be twisting my meaning around now :rolleyes:

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

the point Im trying to make is that you argue by selectively questioning the truth of some things, while accepting others as fact,

On the contrary, question the truth of all things, and recognise that some are stronger, and some weaker...

this is the idiocy nihilists use to never be wrong in their own idiotic eyes.

I am not arguing from a nihilist position, and as for never accepting wrongness, aren't you religious???? lol

But as I said, you SELECTIVELY question. Will you comprehend the explanation this time?

[AnyOldIron]

But as I said, you SELECTIVELY question. Will you comprehend the explanation this time?

Numbnuts, I denied this, and stated that I question the truth of all things.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

But as I said, you SELECTIVELY question. Will you comprehend the explanation this time?

Numbnuts, I denied this, and stated that I question the truth of all things.

You don't question the truth of sources which deny jesus's belief. You only question the accounts of the new testament. You're a fraud.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

Oh he was more than just Jewish Damo, but not a Christian, they did not exist yet. He was what the Christian faith/religion was founded on, but not a Christian.

Don't be twisting my meaning around now :rolleyes:

He held the beliefs of a christian. He was the first christian. That makes him christian. Christianity is not based on race, but belief.

[AnyOldIron]

You don't question the truth of sources which deny jesus's belief. You only question the accounts of the new testament.

What sources that deny Jesus's belief? I am not refering to sources when I question Jesus belief.

You aren't even arguing against what I'm posting... ha ha ha!

[AnyOldIron]

He held the beliefs of a christian. He was the first christian. That makes him christian. Christianity is not based on race, but belief.

And the only source that you have for his beliefs are dubious, written politically by people who never met him, many years after his death and edited ever since...

You really don't get the point do you.. Tell you what, why not parrot the same thing again.... ha ha ha

[Damocles]

Josephus stated that it was reported that Jesus was a great teacher who had amassed a large following, and that his body went missing after his execution and that his followers stated he had returned to life.

He provides evidence of Jesus existence, but not of miracles, which are essentially not-understood phenomenon...

The differences in the two sources is simply agenda, Josephus as a historian, the gospel-writers as formers of a new religion.

If Jesus were taken up, and performing such miracles, then it would surely be recorded amongst records in Roman Judea, keeping in mind how fond the Romans were of recording every aspect of life, particularly anything untoward... This occurred well before the Jewish Revolt, during which the gospels were written, at a time of relative peace, so it is unlikely that it would have slipped by....
I said he mentioned them. From what I remember, working from memory here, he wrote that he was claimed to have done "great works" as well as the claim of resurrection. Which wasn't as odd as people think at the time.

[Damocles]

He held the beliefs of a christian. He was the first christian. That makes him christian. Christianity is not based on race, but belief.

And the only source that you have for his beliefs are dubious, written politically by people who never met him, many years after his death and edited ever since...

You really don't get the point do you.. Tell you what, why not parrot the same thing again.... ha ha ha
Once again, most of them are suggested to be second-hand accounts directly from the people who were there. Suggesting that every news story must have a participant write it or it could never be "evidence" is simply ridiculous.

[AnyOldIron]

he wrote that he was claimed to have done "great works" as well as the claim of resurrection.

He did, but Gandhi could be described as having done 'great works'.

Once again, most of them are suggested to be second-hand accounts directly from the people who were there. Suggesting that every news story must have a participant write it or it could never be "evidence" is simply ridiculous.

Not claiming that. Just explaining why I would call them dubious...

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

he wrote that he was claimed to have done "great works" as well as the claim of resurrection.

He did, but Gandhi could be described as having done 'great works'.

Once again, most of them are suggested to be second-hand accounts directly from the people who were there. Suggesting that every news story must have a participant write it or it could never be "evidence" is simply ridiculous.

Not claiming that. Just explaining why I would call them dubious...

Selective questioning.

[AnyOldIron]

Selective questioning.

Demonstrate how I am being selective, rather than just stating it.

Once you start backing up your arguments, I'll take you seriously...

[uscitizen]

Is there any Jesus quote in the bible where he says he is a Christian ?

son of God, etc yes, but does he say that he is a Christian ?

[AnyOldIron]

At the time, Jesus was considered by his followers to be the Jewish Messiah.

[Damocles]

Is there any Jesus quote in the bible where he says he is a Christian ?

son of God, etc yes, but does he say that he is a Christian ?
He says that he is the fulfillment of prophecy. This is the fundamental difference in Judaism and Christianity. One believes that he has fulfilled the prophecy, the other believes the prophecy is still to be fulfilled.

One must believe that he is the savior in order to believe that the prophecy was fulfilled in Christ. If he believed that, then he believed in the main difference between the religions.

[uscitizen]

The prophecy was mainly about being a jewish messiah, king, deliverer from Rome, etc. Turned out a bit differently though.

But he was not a Christian, the religion was formed after his death and based on him.

btw that was Jewish Prophecy....

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

The prophecy was mainly about being a jewish messiah, king, deliverer from Rome, etc. Turned out a bit differently though.

But he was not a Christian, the religion was formed after his death and based on him.

btw that was Jewish Prophecy....

Except he claimed messiahship to all of humanity, not just jews. that is not a jewish teaching, it is christian. beliefs can exist prior to their label existing. Intelligent people understand that.

[uscitizen]

But how can Jesus be a Christian when he is the founder and the religion did not exist untill after his death.

To be a christian is to be a follower of Christ, his Disciples were the first Christians...

I guess he was a follower of himself and wanted to be as Christlike as he could ?

[Damocles]

But how can Jesus be a Christian when he is the founder and the religion did not exist untill after his death.

To be a christian is to be a follower of Christ, his Disciples were the first Christians...

I guess he was a follower of himself and wanted to be as Christlike as he could ?
Beginnings are not often seen to be the amazing difference at the beginning. His belief that he was a Deity and the savior of all mankind is the basic precept of the new religion.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

But how can Jesus be a Christian when he is the founder and the religion did not exist untill after his death.

To be a christian is to be a follower of Christ, his Disciples were the first Christians...

I guess he was a follower of himself and wanted to be as Christlike as he could ?

Because he held christian beliefs. Sometimes the word for a thing is not invented until a later date, but hindsight being what it is we typically use that word to describe things that preceeded it's invention.

Let's say someone had a brain tumor and died in an era before cancer was known. And because cancer was unknown at the time, the event was recorded as "death by demon infestation". Now let's say at a later date, during an era when cancer was known, physicians exhumed the corpse and found evidence of brain tumor. they wouldn't continue to call the cause of death 'demon infestation' because the word 'cancer' was unknown during the corpses lifetime. No. Of course not, they would say, "he died from cancer".

[uscitizen]

Umm go back an update all the old death certificates then AHZ. They still say things like consumption and such on them :)

[uscitizen]

NOT once did Jesus ever say he was a Christian, but he did admit to being a Jew...

Now if you feel the need to invent something else in you religion feel free to be wrong :D

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

NOT once did Jesus ever say he was a Christian, but he did admit to being a Jew...

Now if you feel the need to invent something else in you religion feel free to be wrong :D

He said he was the savior of mankind, a belief we now call christian. Go reread my example about how words can accurately be used retroactively, simpleton.

[uscitizen]

a belief we now call christian.
//
Exactly my point, Christians did not exist in Christs time so how could he be a Christian ?

[Damocles]

a belief we now call christian.
//
Exactly my point, Christians did not exist in Christs time so how could he be a Christian ?
Then you refuse to read his posts about facts being pre-label?

That we "now" call it something doesn't change that it is different than Judaism.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

a belief we now call christian.
//
Exactly my point, Christians did not exist in Christs time so how could he be a Christian ?

They existed, they just might not have called themselves christian, but they were. Quit being a purposefully dense douchebag.

[uscitizen]

LOL, well I was a prophet about the war too. You gonna start callme a prophet now AHZ ?

Anyway, I will take the PHD theologians word over you workd on jesus being a Jew anyday.

So Adam was not a Christian, nor was Abraham, Moses, etc, Not even Mother Mary ??? :eek:

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

LOL, well I was a prophet about the war too. You gonna start callme a prophet now AHZ ?

Anyway, I will take the PHD theologians word over you workd on jesus being a Jew anyday.

So Adam was not a Christian, nor was Abraham, Moses, etc, Not even Mother Mary ??? :eek:


right, adam was not a christian, nor was abraham, nor moses. I don't know about mother mary. It depends on what she believed.

[uscitizen]

And neither was Jesus, how can the "god" we worship, worship himself ?

I sure would not let you hook my cart to my horse there AHZ....

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

And neither was Jesus, how can the "god" we worship, worship himself ?

I sure would not let you hook my cart to my horse there AHZ....

He believed himself to be the savior. That makes him a christian, since he was christ.

[uscitizen]

That makes him a christian, since he was christ.
//

think about what you are saying....

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

That makes him a christian, since he was christ.
//

think about what you are saying....

You think about what I'm saying too. maybe you'll become wiser.

[uscitizen]

Naaw I am about as wise as I will get, just get senile from here on out :)
You however have some time left to wise up....

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

Naaw I am about as wise as I will get, just get senile from here on out :)
You however have some time left to wise up....

Oh, come on usc, an old dog can be taught new tricks! Rollover!

[uscitizen]

You don't have the right equipment to get me to rollover....

Yep they can be taught new tricks, had my first night with 2 ladies at the same time Friday night....Wuz Fun!

[Battleborne]

You don't have the right equipment to get me to rollover....

Yep they can be taught new tricks, had my first night with 2 ladies at the same time Friday night....Wuz Fun!



Holy shit USC...did you save up on your Viagra for a week or two!:shock:

[uscitizen]

Nope was gone for a month though. Don't need any of that crappy viagra.
Lean more towards needing saltpeter if anything.
It was a very nice welcome home party. Then one other gal on Saturday night and the last one on Sunday night...

I am an old fart but can still take care of the ladies. And my ladies always come first.

Life is good :D

The unbelievable part is they all get along together....