This from Bush

[Beefy]

Iran A Threat To World Peace

LOL

I find it very ironic that GW Bush would make such an assertion:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/01/09/us.iran/index.html

Of course, the Israelis want us to War with Iran so we probably will.

[Cypress]

can we get through the next 12 months, without a war on Iran, with this bozo at the helm?

[Beefy]

can we get through the next 12 months, without a war on Iran, with this bozo at the helm?


No. Maybe not fullscale war, but there will be dead people. It will likely be Israel that starts it, and the US that ends up fighting it, but I believe it will happen.

[Onceler]

I am still relevant! Really, I am!

[Cancel7]

Hurry! Last days! Time is running out! Buy now!
I thought we were going to avert the Iranian war ,because of events in Pakistan. I see that sadly, I was wrong.

[evince]

They are setting up for McCain to look like the guy who can save us.

He will speak against Bush doing this , Bush will do it and McCain will be able to say he had not choice but to finiish the job Bush started.

[uscitizen]

Iran A Threat To World Peace

LOL

I find it very ironic that GW Bush would make such an assertion:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/01/09/us.iran/index.html

Of course, the Israelis want us to War with Iran so we probably will.

and if Huckleberry is elected the Joo ball will be carried forward with enthusiam.

[DamnYankee]

Iran A Threat To World Peace

LOL

I find it very ironic that GW Bush would make such an assertion:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/01/09/us.iran/index.html

Of course, the Israelis want us to War with Iran so we probably will.

So is your assertion that Iran is not a threat to world peace?

[Beefy]

The most telling thing for me was when W, the fucking president, became visibly upset that the US public found out that Iran was NOT trying to get the bomb. He didn't even try to hide it.

War with Itan, and if W doesn't do it, McCain or Hillary will!

The voters in NH are all idiots, save 9% of them.

[DamnYankee]

Visibly upset by your opinion? :cool:

[Beefy]

So is your assertion that Iran is not a threat to world peace?

There is no world peace. Bush started a couple of wars, so Iran is not a threat to something that does not exist. I would also say the US is a bigger threat to the lives of the average Iranian citizen than the other way around, and if you disagree with that, you should read the newspapers.

[leaningright]

and if Huckleberry is elected the Joo ball will be carried forward with enthusiam.

I haven't heard much about his stance on Israel. What have you heard?

[DamnYankee]

There is no world peace. Bush started a couple of wars, so Iran is not a threat to something that does not exist. I would also say the US is a bigger threat to the lives of the average Iranian citizen than the other way around, and if you disagree with that, you should read the newspapers. You have a clever way of dancing around the issue.

[Beefy]

I haven't heard much about his stance on Israel. What have you heard?

His stance on Israel is summed up here:

http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/graphics/bible2.gif

[Bonestorm]

I haven't heard much about his stance on Israel. What have you heard?


Apparently he wants to create a Palestinian state, just somewhere outside of Palestine. That ought to work.

[leaningright]

His stance on Israel is summed up here:

http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/graphics/bible2.gif

That doesn't explain much to me.

[Beefy]

That doesn't explain much to me.

You know, holy land, promised land, chosen people, defend Israel or go to hell, That kind of thing.

Israels well being is more important than anything else in the world. You know, the Bible.

[DamnYankee]

Apparently he wants to create a Palestinian state, just somewhere outside of Palestine. That ought to work. That's a pretty big area. Lots bigger than the soverign state of Israel.

[leaningright]

You know, holy land, promised land, chosen people, defend Israel or go to hell, That kind of thing.

Israels well being is more important than anything else in the world. You know, the Bible.

Well, I'm a Bible oriented kind of guy and don't think Israel deserves any more attention/protection than any other country, religiously speaking. I suspect because of his denomination Huckabee might put some misguided importance on the nation of Israel but haven't heard such yet.

[Beefy]

Well, I'm a Bible oriented kind of guy and don't think Israel deserves any more attention/protection than any other country, religiously speaking. I suspect because of his denomination Huckabee might put some misguided importance on the nation of Israel but haven't heard such yet.

He'd better or he doesn't get elected.

[uscitizen]

I haven't heard much about his stance on Israel. What have you heard?

Umm, he is a minister and wrote and spoke a lot about Israels manifest destiny...
Seems like a conflict of interest to me. A minister as president weighing his responsibility to those of us whom he is supposed to watch over vs his religious beliefs...

[DamnYankee]

Well, I'm a Bible oriented kind of guy and don't think Israel deserves any more attention/protection than any other country, religiously speaking. I suspect because of his denomination Huckabee might put some misguided importance on the nation of Israel but haven't heard such yet.
Secure borders, not being harrassed and threatened by yor neighbors. That's not too much to ask of a soverign nation.

Or is it?

[leaningright]

He'd better or he doesn't get elected.

Well I don't think he gets elected no matter what he believes on this issue but I have liked what he has had to say in other issues of importance so far.

[Beefy]

Secure borders, not being harrassed and threatened by yor neighbors. That's not too much to ask of a soverign nation.

Or is it?

Yes, it is too much to ask of the US. They can defend themselves. They don't need us. We can sever our relationship with them and the world will be a better place.

[Bonestorm]

That's a pretty big area. Lots bigger than the soverign state of Israel.


Your observation is correct. The world outside of Israel is much larger than the state of Israel.

Any other gems you'd like to pass along?

[Beefy]

Your observation is correct. The world outside of Israel is much larger than the state of Israel.

Any other gems you'd like to pass along?

hee hee :D

[DamnYankee]

Yes, it is too much to ask of the US. They can defend themselves. They don't need us. We can sever our relationship with them and the world will be a better place. As we are the ones providing their hostile neighbors with money, it is responsibility to keep said parties at bay, if necessary.

Reduce our dependency on ME oil, and our responsibility is reduced accordingly. :D

[DamnYankee]

Your observation is correct. The world outside of Israel is much larger than the state of Israel.

Any other gems you'd like to pass along? We were discussing Palestine.

[Beefy]

As we are the ones providing their hostile neighbors with money, it is responsibility to keep said parties at bay, if necessary.

Reduce our dependency on ME oil, and our responsibility is reduced accordingly. :D

They're their own country. We don't need to stake our security on theirs. They have a couple hundred nukes and the strongest military in the ME. I say bid them a fond farewell.

[DamnYankee]

They're their own country. We don't need to stake our security on theirs. They have a couple hundred nukes and the strongest military in the ME. I say bid them a fond farewell. You appear to have ignored the issues that I raised, then simply repeated your position.

[Beefy]

You appear to have ignored the issues that I raised, then simply repeated your position.

The issues you raised are wholesale irrelevant.

Only my issues are relevant.

Are you familiar with Ron Mexico?

[DamnYankee]

The issues you raised are wholesale irrelevant.

Only my issues are relevant.

Are you familiar with Ron Mexico?

Well at least you set me straight! :rolleyes:

1. Why is it irrelevant that the US is responsible for enriching muslim fanatics who want to kill Jews?
2. Never hear of him.

[Beefy]

Well at least you set me straight! :rolleyes:

1. Why is it irrelevant that the US is responsible for enriching muslim fanatics who want to kill Jews?
2. Never hear of him.

Thus US is not responsible for the intentions of the entire planet, although W seems to think so, but as per usual, he's dead wrong. Israel has the power to defend itself. IT DOESN'T NEED US. That's the point. Why keep giving aid and weapons to a country that doesn't need it?

It would be like subsidizing bill gates because Apple is selling a lot of computers. It wouldn't make any sense.

[Battleborne]

You have a clever way of dancing around the issue.


Beefy is a funny dude...albeit not a realist on real issues...I blame his habit of Maui Wowee...it fogs his brain as it does all RP supporters...!:clink:

[Beefy]

Beefy is a funny dude...albeit not a realist on real issues...I blame his habit of Maui Wowee...it fogs his brain as it does all RP supporters...!:clink:

Maui Wowie for this old Howlee.

Corona and Crack for you! :D

[Timshel]

Well at least you set me straight! :rolleyes:

1. Why is it irrelevant that the US is responsible for enriching muslim fanatics who want to kill Jews?

This is a ridiculous rationalization. It implies we should either provide massive aid to anyone that we (as inidividuals) trade with or block all trade. Do you think we should be arming the muslim nations since we trade with Israel?

Any enrichment of muslim fanatics is done through individual choices in the market. You can do the same to aid Israel if you like. Why should I pay for your guilt.

[Battleborne]

Maui Wowie for this old Howlee.

Corona and Crack for you! :D


I do like Corona and Miller Lime...and a cute crack on a cute female butt...no white powder for me though...thats your gig!:rolleyes:

[Bonestorm]

This is a ridiculous rationalization. It implies we should either provide massive aid to anyone that we (as inidividuals) trade with or block all trade. Do you think we should be arming the muslim nations since we trade with Israel?

Any enrichment of muslim fanatics is done through individual choices in the market. You can do the same to aid Israel if you like. Why should I pay for your guilt.


It's even more ridiculous when you consider that we don't really buy all that much oil from the Middle East with the exception of our "friends" in Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Kuwait. The idea that Saudi Arabia under its present leadership would attack Israel is just about laughable as it is for Kuwait and Iraq.

[DamnYankee]

Thus US is not responsible for the intentions of the entire planet, although W seems to think so, but as per usual, he's dead wrong. Israel has the power to defend itself. IT DOESN'T NEED US. That's the point. Why keep giving aid and weapons to a country that doesn't need it?

It would be like subsidizing bill gates because Apple is selling a lot of computers. It wouldn't make any sense.

OIC. So we can enrich Israel's enemies and have zero responsibility to help defend her. Is that your position?

[DamnYankee]

This is a ridiculous rationalization. It implies we should either provide massive aid to anyone that we (as inidividuals) trade with or block all trade. Do you think we should be arming the muslim nations since we trade with Israel?

Any enrichment of muslim fanatics is done through individual choices in the market. You can do the same to aid Israel if you like. Why should I pay for your guilt.


Environmentalists have made it virtually impossible to harvest oil and produce energy within the borders of the US. "Choices in the market" do not exist.

[Beefy]

OIC. So we can enrich Israel's enemies and have zero responsibility to help defend her. Is that your position?

Yes. We don't have to protect the neighbors of every nation we trade with.

[Timshel]

OIC. So we can enrich Israel's enemies and have zero responsibility to help defend her. Is that your position?

So we can enrich the Muslim world's enemies and have zero responsibility to defend them. Insert China, Taiwan and just about every other nation on the planet.

[DamnYankee]

It's even more ridiculous when you consider that we don't really buy all that much oil from the Middle East with the exception of our "friends" in Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Kuwait. The idea that Saudi Arabia under its present leadership would attack Israel is just about laughable as it is for Kuwait and Iraq. If we didn't buy all that il from our "friends" than the price would be much lower. Its called supply and demand.

[DamnYankee]

Yes. We don't have to protect the neighbors of every nation we trade with. That is a socially irresponsible position. I find it hard to believe that if you had neighbors who have sworn to kill you and I provided them with the resources to do you great harm that you would be OK with that.

[Timshel]

Environmentalists have made it virtually impossible to harvest oil and produce energy within the borders of the US. "Choices in the market" do not exist.


Not relevant to th point. You can buy Israeli goods or just send them cash if you like. Further, you could buy from non ME sources, e.g., Venezuela. But make sure to send some money to Brazil, Columbia and Guyana if you do.

Your argument is dumb.

[Battleborne]

Yes. We don't have to protect the neighbors of every nation we trade with.


el Beefy..would this also apply with our trade deals with Germany during WWII...if this was the case we all would be using human skin lampshades and speaking German...not a very good argument beefy!

[DamnYankee]

So we can enrich the Muslim world's enemies and have zero responsibility to defend them. Insert China, Taiwan and just about every other nation on the planet. I think its a matter of degree, for both the increase in wealth and waht they plan on doing with it. But if you are determined to be absolute about it then so be it.

[Bonestorm]

If we didn't buy all that il from our "friends" than the price would be much lower. Its called supply and demand.


So basically your argument is that we have to support Israel militarily because we consume oil?

That fucking stupid.

[Timshel]

If we didn't buy all that il from our "friends" than the price would be much lower. Its called supply and demand.

So now, we are solely responsible for the market price of oil. Your argument is absurd. Quit making rationalizations to pretend your position is principled and tell us the real reason you feel we should defend Israel.

[DamnYankee]

Not relevant to th point. You can buy Israeli goods or just send them cash if you like. Further, you could buy from non ME sources, e.g., Venezuela. But make sure to send some money to Brazil, Columbia and Guyana if you do.

Your argument is dumb. My argument may simply be above your ability to debate.

If we buy 1/3 of the world's oil, then we affect the market. We have all the energy sources that we need right here, and the same crew that doesn't allow us to use it is the same crew that would let Isreal die.

[DamnYankee]

So basically your argument is that we have to support Israel militarily because we consume oil?

That fucking stupid.


We have to support Israel militarily because we agreed to when we created her after WW2. We have to provide a lot more support because we have enrichened her enimies, who would otherwise still be supplying their sword swinging soldiers with camel convoys.

[Beefy]

So now, we are solely responsible for the market price of oil. Your argument is absurd. Quit making rationalizations to pretend your position is principled and tell us the real reason you feel we should defend Israel.

That's what I'm wondering. The reasons he states are not his real reasons. If they were, he'd be agreeing with you regarding other countries.

[DamnYankee]

So now, we are solely responsible for the market price of oil. .....
Perhaps you could point out where I said that? :p

[Bonestorm]

My argument may simply be above your ability to debate.

If we buy 1/3 of the world's oil, then we affect the market. We have all the energy sources that we need right here, and the same crew that doesn't allow us to use it is the same crew that would let Isreal die.


Do you really believe that nonsense? Where are all of these glorious energy resources? You've got plenty of hot air to contribute if we could only harvest it, but even if we could I still think there would be a shortfall.

[Timshel]

I think its a matter of degree, for both the increase in wealth and waht they plan on doing with it. But if you are determined to be absolute about it then so be it.

You're dumb.

Again, if we enrich foreign people then we do so as individuals freely choosing to do so in the marketplace. Who says you or the state get to decide what are the proper degrees and what is a proper use? You think it important to counter that, send money to Israel.

[Bonestorm]

We have to support Israel militarily because we agreed to when we created her after WW2. We have to provide a lot more support because we have enrichened her enimies, who would otherwise still be supplying their sword swinging soldiers with camel convoys.


So now we're the United Nations? That's interesting.

[Timshel]

My argument may simply be above your ability to debate.

If we buy 1/3 of the world's oil, then we affect the market. We have all the energy sources that we need right here, and the same crew that doesn't allow us to use it is the same crew that would let Isreal die.

I have no problem using our energy sources. False dichotomy.

[DamnYankee]

Do you really believe that nonsense? Where are all of these glorious energy resources? You've got plenty of hot air to contribute if we could only harvest it, but even if we could I still think there would be a shortfall.
I don't feel the need to educate you on how much energy potential is within US control, but look at it from a market standpoint. There is oil in Alaska that liberals are fighting to keep in the ground. Same the midwest. Same with natural gas reserves off the coast of the Carolinas. Same with wind farms within sight of the Kennedy compound. Same with geothermal projects in the West. Same with nuclear power in every state!

Instead they have us grow corn, which requires 4 gallons of ethanol to produce 5. :D

[DamnYankee]

I have no problem using our energy sources. False dichotomy.
One liberal out of millions.

[DamnYankee]

You're dumb.

Again, if we enrich foreign people then we do so as individuals freely choosing to do so in the marketplace. Who says you or the state get to decide what are the proper degrees and what is a proper use? You think it important to counter that, send money to Israel.

Our elected officials decide.

[Timshel]

There are only two positions that to which your nonsense can lead. Either you support of a one world government or a total isolationism.

[DamnYankee]

There are only two positions that to which your nonsense can lead. Either you support of a one world government or a total isolationism. Post 47.

And for the record, I support personal responsibility.

[Timshel]

Our elected officials decide.

Commie. Our government has no business directing whom we may trade with or using force against us to counter it in a way that they feel appropriate.

[Timshel]

Post 47.

And for the record, I support personal responsibility.

Post #55.

No, you support collective responsibility.

[DamnYankee]

Commie. Our government has no business directing whom we may trade with or using force against us to counter it in a way that they feel appropriate.
When it impacts national security, then our government has that rresponsibility.

[Beefy]

Obviously, you support imperialism and foreign interventionism.

Should American kids die for Israel if they end up in a war over there?

[DamnYankee]

Obviously, you support imperialism and foreign interventionism.

Should American kids die for Israel if they end up in a war over there?

I support cleaning up after our messes. We create it, we defend it.

I'd rather have the other sons of bitches die than our guys. :)

[Beefy]

I support cleaning up after our messes. We create it, we defend it.

I'd rather have the other sons of bitches die than our guys. :)

Israel is a mess? So arming this mess to the teeth and shipping them boat loads of money is making the Middle East a better place.

Good logic fellah.

[Timshel]

When it impacts national security, then our government has that rresponsibility.


Okay, now you are presenting some other reason as superior to your previously offered retarded reason. Have anything to support this one?

[Timshel]

I support cleaning up after our messes. We create it, we defend it.

I'd rather have the other sons of bitches die than our guys. :)

And create some new messes. That's stupid.

[Battleborne]

And create some new messes. That's stupid.



I must take my leave...the driveway needs snow clearing again! I support the loacal Hardware store...went thru a cpuple of snow shovels already...Next year I will visit the 'Honda' Quad Store...need a quad with a plow...I am beat!

[Timshel]

I must take my leave...the driveway needs snow clearing again! I support the loacal Hardware store...went thru a cpuple of snow shovels already...Next year I will visit the 'Honda' Quad Store...need a quad with a plow...I am beat!

Uhhh, ok.

Did you buy a gun for the neighbor of your hardware store's proprietor?

[Beefy]

Uhhh, ok.



LOL

[DamnYankee]

Israel is a mess? So arming this mess to the teeth and shipping them boat loads of money is making the Middle East a better place.

Good logic fellah.


Actually, that is what I'm arguing against doing.

You seem to want the Islamists to have our resources, but the Jews not.

[DamnYankee]

Okay, now you are presenting some other reason as superior to your previously offered retarded reason. Have anything to support this one?


And create some new messes. That's stupid.

You seem to use insults as a method of avoiding meaningful discussion.

[DamnYankee]

I must take my leave...the driveway needs snow clearing again! I support the loacal Hardware store...went thru a cpuple of snow shovels already...Next year I will visit the 'Honda' Quad Store...need a quad with a plow...I am beat!

I use to have a International Scout tractor, circa 1956. It was cast iron construction and weighed 1000#. I had chains on the rear wheels and four 150# weights (two per wheel). It was useless against Upstate NY snows. Granted it was two wheel drive.

I ended up getting a 10HP track drive walk-behind snow thrower, and with it I could clear 2' or snow from my 150' driveway in 45 minutes. It was faster than my neighbor who used his 4WD Dodge pickup with a plow.

[Beefy]

Actually, that is what I'm arguing against doing.

Explain.


You seem to want the Islamists to have our resources, but the Jews not.

It has nothing to do with religion, unless you're some sort of weirdo who bases his foreign policy on the old testament. It is about nations, not religions.

[DamnYankee]

Explain.



It has nothing to do with religion, unless you're some sort of weirdo who bases his foreign policy on the old testament. It is about nations, not religions.

1. I'm arguing to reduce US money going to OPEC.
2. It has everything to do with religion, starting as early as 700AD. Then Islamic takeover of Jewish lands. Then Islamic invasions into Europe. We are simply in a continuance of this.

[Beefy]

1. I'm arguing to reduce US money going to OPEC.
2. It has everything to do with religion, starting as early as 700AD. Then Islamic takeover of Jewish lands. Then Islamic invasions into Europe. We are simply in a continuance of this.

No, WE are not in a continuance of this. If they are, that's their own damned business, but taking sides in a 3000 year old religious skirmish is not what we base our foreign policy on.

We deal with nations, not religions.

[uscitizen]

1. I'm arguing to reduce US money going to OPEC.
2. It has everything to do with religion, starting as early as 700AD. Then Islamic takeover of Jewish lands. Then Islamic invasions into Europe. We are simply in a continuance of this.

Nope it started with Moses and his bunch levaing Egypt as contract labororers and taking over Caanan/Israel and killing all man woman and child that did not flee before them. Murdering all to take back the land they voluntarialy abandoned to go to Egypt to work.


Why if Israel is gods chosen do they need our money and help anyway ?

[DamnYankee]

No, WE are not in a continuance of this. If they are, that's their own damned business, but taking sides in a 3000 year old religious skirmish is not what we base our foreign policy on.

We deal with nations, not religions.

The US government is charged by the People to protect national security. The fact that this threat is by religios zealots doesn't negate that.

It is a 1300 year old struggle where one side insists on taking over the world by force and the other simply wants to be left alone.

[DamnYankee]

Nope it started with Moses and his bunch levaing Egypt as contract labororers and taking over Caanan/Israel and killing all man woman and child that did not flee before them. Murdering all to take back the land they voluntarialy abandoned to go to Egypt to work.


Why if Israel is gods chosen do they need our money and help anyway ?
"Contract laborers"?