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OldMercsRule
01-22-2017, 09:03 PM
"Scientists use mathematical calculations to PROVE the existence of God

SCIENTISTS have ‘confirmed’ the existence of God after proving a mathematician’s theory which suggests that there is a higher power.

By Sean Martin
PUBLISHED: 03:00, Sun, Jan 22, 2017 | UPDATED: 09:03, Sun, Jan 22, 2017

Two computer scientists say they proved that there is a holy supreme force after confirming the equations.

In 1978, mathematician Kurt Gödel died and left behind a long and complex theory based on modal logic.

Dr Gödel’s model uses mathematical equations that are extremely complicated, but the essence is that no greater power than God can be conceived, and if he or she is believed as a concept then he or she can exist in reality..."

http://www.express.co.uk/news/science/756870/proof-of-god-kurt-godel

Interesting... :)

Celticguy
01-22-2017, 09:10 PM
Evince will be required to accept that there is a God now.
Praise God for that!

iewitness
01-22-2017, 09:21 PM
all equations which exclude God [The Lord Jesus Christ] are failed and false equations. all so called "science" which excludes truths revealed in the final compilation of scripture are not science and will never get past the theory stage. http://biblehub.com/kjv/job/38.htm

Mott the Hoople
01-23-2017, 10:54 AM
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL. I've seen a lot...and I mean a lot of dumb posts before but this has to be...by far and away...the most profoundly scientifically ignorant post on JPP I've ever read.

Anyone who gives the OP any scientific credibility what so ever is simply ignorant of science and the scientific method.

Now that mean seem a bit harsh so I will clarify this. Once whatever you are studying involves a supernatural causation you have stopped studying or practicing science. Science only deals with natural causation and only natural causation. It is mutually exclusive from any religious or philosophical beliefs that are not limited specifically to natural causation or imply supernatural causation.

So though I am in no way impugning anyone's religious belief I am definitely impugning anyone's belief that this OP is in anyway, shape or form even remotely related to science. In short, from a scientific standpoint, the OP is a joke.

OldMercsRule
01-23-2017, 01:00 PM
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL. I've seen a lot...and I mean a lot of dumb posts before but this has to be...by far and away...the most profoundly scientifically ignorant post on JPP I've ever read.

Hmmmm.... So I guess yer mathematics skills are sufficient to find the flaws in what mathematician Kurt Gödel's logic model "SUGGESTS" yer sayin'?

OR: are we jus' gettin' the standard sanctimonious look down yer long snarky nose Liberal/Progressive/Marxist/Statist/Fascist 'I'm soooooo smart' dismissal of intelligent design anti-religious bigotry?

Admittedly the Sean Martin's choice of 'prove' in the headline seems to be a bit of an overstatement, since the model appears to be a logic model.

That said: many headlines are designed to get attention and it grabbed mine,(of course yer sooooooo much smarter then I am). burp...


Anyone who gives the OP any scientific credibility what so ever is simply ignorant of science and the scientific method.

Hmmmmm... "simply ignorant of science and the scientific method" eh?

Are you aware of the fact that most scientific theories in physics are mathematically based?

I guess you aren't impressed with the 'big bang' theory and the critical theory of the initial 'expansion' of post big bang space then too? (BTW the rate of expansion had to be extremely precise to allow the formation of protons/neutrons/electrons and other more exotic particles explained by quantum physics for mommy hydrogen to form), or the universe would have continued expanding and never had the matter, (stars/galaxies) we see today. If it was slightly too slow (fifty plus digits of super precision) the mass/energy could not have escaped gravity and fallen back to the pre big bang singularity.

BTW, both relativity and quantum mechanics break down, (mathematically: the equations go to infinity), at the point of singularity, hence the need for the separate butt: very necessary theory of 'expansion'.

Kurt Gödel's mathematical logic model, (which is admittedly over my one functional brain cell n' was so complex that computers were required to crunch the numbers), seems to validate the intuitive conclusion that some have reached that the level precision of the expansion, as well as the break down of theories at the point of singularity points to intelligent design.


Now that mean seem a bit harsh so I will clarify this. Once whatever you are studying involves a supernatural causation you have stopped studying or practicing science. Science only deals with natural causation and only natural causation. It is mutually exclusive from any religious or philosophical beliefs that are not limited specifically to natural causation or imply supernatural causation.

Nope that is yer anti-religious bigotry. Kurt Gödel's mathematical logic model doesn't state the nature of the intelligent designer, his equations merely show that outside design is "suggested".


So though I am in no way impugning anyone's religious belief I am definitely impugning anyone's belief that this OP is in anyway, shape or form even remotely related to science. In short, from a scientific standpoint, the OP is a joke.


I think yer a bit of a joke: hoople.

You may have some credibility if ya pointed out the flaws Kurt Gödel's mathematical logic model, butt: I bet that is over yer pay grade.

Faith in Jesus Christ, (as I have), doesn't require any outside validation, butt: that doesn't mean that people like Kurt Gödel won't try, (it also doesn't mean Kurt Gödel's mathematical logic model isn't science).

Jarod
01-23-2017, 01:04 PM
Depends on how you define God, but I have proof, just look around at the beauty we live in.

MAGA MAN
01-23-2017, 03:34 PM
Once whatever you are studying involves a supernatural causation you have stopped studying or practicing science. Science only deals with natural causation and only natural causation. It is mutually exclusive from any religious or philosophical beliefs that are not limited specifically to natural causation or imply supernatural causation.

This is not logical.

PostmodernProphet
01-23-2017, 03:40 PM
I always KNEW that four proved God......

SmarterthanYou
01-23-2017, 03:40 PM
Once whatever you are studying involves a supernatural causation you have stopped studying or practicing science. Science only deals with natural causation and only natural causation.

just out of curiosity, what do you consider supernatural causation? out of body experiences? people seeing ghosts? talking to god? the devil? angels? if science is only natural causation, there must be some very bright and defined line where it stops, right?

PostmodernProphet
01-23-2017, 04:14 PM
Now that mean seem a bit harsh so I will clarify this. Once whatever you are studying involves a supernatural causation you have stopped studying or practicing science. Science only deals with natural causation and only natural causation. It is mutually exclusive from any religious or philosophical beliefs that are not limited specifically to natural causation or imply supernatural causation.


when do you conclude that further scientific study will not reveal natural causation?.......before or after you stop bleeding your patients with leeches......before or after you discover a polio vaccine.......before or after you discover an isotope?......

archives
01-23-2017, 04:26 PM
"Scientists use mathematical calculations to PROVE the existence of God

SCIENTISTS have ‘confirmed’ the existence of God after proving a mathematician’s theory which suggests that there is a higher power.

By Sean Martin
PUBLISHED: 03:00, Sun, Jan 22, 2017 | UPDATED: 09:03, Sun, Jan 22, 2017

Two computer scientists say they proved that there is a holy supreme force after confirming the equations.

In 1978, mathematician Kurt Gödel died and left behind a long and complex theory based on modal logic.

Dr Gödel’s model uses mathematical equations that are extremely complicated, but the essence is that no greater power than God can be conceived, and if he or she is believed as a concept then he or she can exist in reality..."

http://www.express.co.uk/news/science/756870/proof-of-god-kurt-godel

Interesting... :)

Why? Faith is Platonic, one doesn't need mathematical calculations to verify faith

Mott the Hoople
01-23-2017, 07:37 PM
Depends on how you define God, but I have proof, just look around at the beauty we live in.
I'm not talking about God. I'm talking about science.

Mott the Hoople
01-23-2017, 07:42 PM
This is not logical.
Who ever claimed science was logical? It's quite often counterintuitive. Take Skidmark for example. Logic dictates he should have been dead a long time ago...but here he is.

Mott the Hoople
01-23-2017, 07:45 PM
Why? Faith is Platonic, one doesn't need mathematical calculations to verify faith
Exactly! Faith has as much use for empirical observation as science does in knowledge from authority. Non overlapping magisterium.

Mott the Hoople
01-23-2017, 08:00 PM
just out of curiosity, what do you consider supernatural causation? out of body experiences? people seeing ghosts? talking to god? the devil? angels? if science is only natural causation, there must be some very bright and defined line where it stops, right?i define supernatural causation as outside or other than natural causes.

Can't answer you're second question as it's not empirically testable. In other words I don't know.

MAGA MAN
01-23-2017, 08:19 PM
Who ever claimed science was logical? It's quite often counterintuitive. Take Skidmark for example. Logic dictates he should have been dead a long time ago...but here he is.

Now you're compounding your lack of logic. Skid isn't dead because he's locked in his mother's basement.

bhaktajan
01-23-2017, 08:36 PM
a joke
profoundly
scientific method.
a higher power
verify faith
natural causation
supernatural causation
[the number] four proved God
beauty

We are [non-Material] spirits in a Material World.
Material matter is made of the inert separated elements [earth, water, fire, air, ether etc].
Material matter is changing into different forms, being created, maintained and dissolved.
Spirit-soul [alma, anima] provides a conscious-life force to animate a species of life.
Humans are Spirit-souls in a Material World.
Spirit-soul has no material qualities. Spirit-soul is made of three in-separable qualities:
Spirit-soul is made of Eternality (w/o time) + Cognizance + Blissfullness [aka, Spirit-soul is made of "sat-chitta-ananda"]

In lieu of Religious trappings and methods ... there are absolute truths...for example: "WORK".

All material and spiritual things preform their own allotted "WORK".

The work of a stone is to stay stationary and to be hard and dense.
The work of a water is to be wet.
The work of a dog is to bark.
The work of a student is to study.
The work of a Sun is to shine.

Such obligatory "Work" is referred to with the word "Dhar-ma" aka "Duty".

We Spirit-souls in a Material World ...where duality causes the elements to move in a flux. Where ever the elements are found manifest ..."things Happen", and thus "Time" transpires.

In the material world we have the Elements + Space + Time ...as a medium for Spirit-souls to take up residence in on of the myriads of Living Bodies ---each, from a common garden Ant up to the penthouses of the high and Mighty ---all species do the same four catagories of activies:
eat,
sleep,
mate,
defend.

This is what all species do.

God = The Supreme well-spring reservoir of PERSONA. The name, fame, form, personality, paraphernalia, entourage and pastimes of Godhead in His original form is a known fact and an open-book open-source fact awaiting any soul that considers "what the reason for taking re-births and thus working and working in different lifetimes for no reason except temporary pastimes is aiming at"

In the material world, manifest & temporal Time exists.

The Soul is made of "Sat" ---without time.

Revelation of Godhead may change according to the level of intelligence of the worth of "Persona". Persona is the hallmark of Godhead.

The Scientific method is no different than a "Recipe".

So tasting the pudding is the only way to verify the results.

The OP does not summerise the Theorem. [thou, theorem has the word Theo in it]

So I will surmise that Mathematical calculations can not provide a proof where **ZERO can produce a One**

ZERO = ZERO
One = an outside addition.

One & Zero cannot be separated they are join via the Laws of Duality that constitute how the elements stay in flux.

And math can show this relationship. But where did the **One** emerge from?

iewitness
01-23-2017, 08:52 PM
the "One" is the self existent one, the "I am" that I am. he has revealed himself in his only begotten Son. every person on this planet [just about] knows his name. Jesus. that is a scientifically provable fact. it is in the rocks and dust. dig it up.

SmarterthanYou
01-23-2017, 08:53 PM
i define supernatural causation as outside or other than natural causes.

Can't answer you're second question as it's not empirically testable. In other words I don't know.

fair enough

Lightbringer
01-28-2017, 11:48 AM
No one else had a problem with this part?


Dr Gödel’s model uses mathematical equations that are extremely complicated, but the essence is that no greater power than God can be conceived, and if he or she is believed as a concept then he or she can exist in reality.

Not even close to proving the existence of God.

Nomad
01-30-2017, 01:59 PM
No one else had a problem with this part?

Not even close to proving the existence of God.

The real problem is with the very first line of the article...

"SCIENTISTS have ‘confirmed’ the existence of God after proving a mathematician’s theory which suggests that there is a higher power."

With confirmed being in quotation marks and suggests meaning what it means, it does not inspire a great deal of confidence.

Norah
02-03-2017, 08:37 AM
If math helps you personally find God then go math! This would definitely be the only redeeming quality for math though if true.

leaningright
02-03-2017, 09:00 AM
If math helps you personally find God then go math! This would definitely be the only redeeming quality for math though if true.

Hey now!!! ... There's a math teacher/CoC preacher posting on this board who might read this. ;)

CFM
02-04-2017, 07:37 AM
Evince will be required to accept that there is a God now.
Praise God for that!

Or deny science by refusing.

Midas Whale67
02-06-2017, 12:34 AM
No one else had a problem with this part?



Not even close to proving the existence of God.

Says the guy who sits at the right hand of his Father.

Thanks, Jesus, for the inside track...

jmotivator
08-10-2017, 02:48 PM
i define supernatural causation as outside or other than natural causes.

Can't answer you're second question as it's not empirically testable. In other words I don't know.


Arguing God as supernatural by your definition is begging the question.

If there is a God then there is nothing that he does that is not natural. The simple act of existing makes the actions natural. I think a more universally logical definition of "supernatural" would be causation outside of our current ability to understand and explain. By that definition then God can be both real and his actions supernatural.

jmotivator
08-10-2017, 03:07 PM
No one else had a problem with this part?

Not even close to proving the existence of God.

Well, yes and no. The article doesn't do a great job of describing Gödel’s model.

But the point, even as stated, is an interesting one. It is similar to an argument I have made for years regarding logically defining the existence of an after life that must exist if we believe a few simple non-controversial theories. Example:

1) The big bang has an unexplainable causation
2) The beginning of life was a probabilistic event
3) The evolution of man was the result of a long string of probabilistic events
4) The birth of Guille was a probabilistic event
5) The life of Guille has been a series of probabilistic events
6) Probability is the chance of a given occurrence happening in a finite amount of time
7) Time is infinite
8) Any event that is government by probability has a 100% chance of reoccurring given an infinite amount of time and will happen an infinite amount of times

Ta Da! A belief that the universe is always expanding, and therefor time being infinite, means you believe you will have life after death.

An alternative is to believe that time is finite but then you make it increasingly less likely that the creation of life was a chance occurrence.

I believe in God because I have seen the work of God in me and the lives around me, and if he doesn't exist it means that some really smart people thousands of years ago wrote a pretty amazing user manual for human civilization.

BRUTALITOPS
08-11-2017, 07:34 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWRiCHEYFK0

Mott the Hoople
08-12-2017, 10:58 AM
Arguing God as supernatural by your definition is begging the question.

If there is a God then there is nothing that he does that is not natural. The simple act of existing makes the actions natural. I think a more universally logical definition of "supernatural" would be causation outside of our current ability to understand and explain. By that definition then God can be both real and his actions supernatural.weak...that's a petitio principii logical fallacy in which you assume your initial premise is correct. Since there is no way you can prove your premise correct via empirical evidence your statement is illogical.

jmotivator
08-14-2017, 07:39 AM
weak...that's a petitio principii logical fallacy in which you assume your initial premise is correct. Since there is no way you can prove your premise correct via empirical evidence your statement is illogical.

Nope. Belief in God the creator is a belief that God created the natural world, therefor it is a belief that God is natural. Ironically, your counter argument is actually a petitio principii fallacy as you require a disbelief in God before your definition of nature is acceptable. You don't have to believe what I believe to accept the idea that God as he is believed is natural.

And, in fact, my definition of supernatural is the actual definition. A supernatural event is an event that defies human understanding and our understanding of the laws of nature. "Nature", on the other hand is all encompassing and not depending on the limits of our understanding