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krisy
09-02-2006, 07:39 PM
SO my husband flips on this show on VH-1 called "The Metal Years" or something like that. Well,we start watching because I was a big hair band gal,and he was into the harder stuff. While watching,Sebastian Bach of Skid Row is talking about the Republicans and how the Reagan people were somehow behind wanting rock and roll to go away. Someone else said something too,I think it was Dee Snider of Twisted Sister

Anyway,my question is...wasn't it Tipper Gore,wife of AL,that lead the revolt against rock? As we all know,they are big Dems. She also lead the PMRC which was some kind of stupid organization against rock. AM I right? I don't remember Reagan saying too much about it. Just wondering.

Damocles
09-02-2006, 07:40 PM
Yeah, it was Tipper. Reagan actually was for the Free Speech thing.

krisy
09-02-2006, 07:43 PM
Yeah, it was Tipper. Reagan actually was for the Free Speech thing.


That's what I thought. For some reason,all the headbangers blame it on the cons. I guess that's why they are headbangers and not doctors:cool:

Sir Evil
09-02-2006, 07:45 PM
Tiiper claimed it made kids suicidal, see the Judas Priest case. The apple does'nt fall too far from the tree.

Care4all
09-03-2006, 08:36 AM
As a method of combating this problem, the PMRC suggested a voluntary move by the RIAA and the music industry to develop "guidelines and/or a rating system" similar to the MPAA film rating system.

The Parents Music Resource Center (PMRC) was an American committee formed in 1985 by four mothers: Tipper Gore, wife of Senator and later Vice President Al Gore; Susan Baker, wife of Treasury Secretary James Baker; Pam Howar, wife of Washington realtor Raymond Howar; and Sally Nevius, wife of Washington City Council Chairman John Nevius. The mothers were known as the "Washington wives" – a reference to their husbands' connections with the federal government. The Center eventually grew to include 22 directors.

The mothers claimed that popular music, especially rock music, was partially responsible for the (at the time) recent increase in rape, teenage pregnancy, and teen suicide. The PMRC's mission was "to educate and inform parents" about "the growing trend in music towards lyrics that are sexually explicit, excessively violent, or glorify the use of drugs and alcohol", and to seek the censorship and rating of music.

hmmmmmm, no mention of Republican Howard Baker's wife being one of the initial four or all of the other Republicans that were a part of this movement?

this was all tipper!

LOL

klaatu
09-03-2006, 08:49 AM
On the floor of Congressional hearings....Tipper had many a battle with Frank Zappa .. anyone remmembr that?

klaatu
09-03-2006, 08:54 AM
Check this out

http://www.dashes.com/anil/2006/08/30/frank_zappa_on_

Scroll down just a bit and check out Frank Zappa in a 20 minute Crossfire from the mid 80's ... host Tom Braden (anyone remmeber him?) and Novak....

This was when CNN and Crossfire were in their hey day ...

Care4all
09-03-2006, 08:58 AM
On the floor of Congressional hearings....Tipper had many a battle with Frank Zappa .. anyone remmembr that?

Frank Zappa

Musician and producer Frank Zappa stated that


The PMRC proposal is an ill-conceived piece of nonsense which fails to deliver any real benefits to children, infringes the civil liberties of people who are not children, and promises to keep the courts busy for years dealing with the interpretational and enforcemental problems inherent in the proposal's design.
It is my understanding that in law First Amendment issues are decided with a preference for the least restrictive alternative. In this context, the PMRC demands are the equivalent of treating dandruff by decapitation.

Zappa also stated his suspicion that the hearings were a front for H.R. 2911, a proposed blank tape tax:

The major record labels need to have H.R. 2911 whiz through a few committees before anybody smells a rat. One of them is chaired by Senator Thurmond. Is it a coincidence that Mrs. Thurmond is affiliated with the PMRC?

klaatu
09-03-2006, 09:16 AM
Check this out

http://www.dashes.com/anil/2006/08/30/frank_zappa_on_

Scroll down just a bit and check out Frank Zappa in a 20 minute Crossfire from the mid 80's ... host Tom Braden (anyone remmeber him?) and Novak....

This was when CNN and Crossfire were in their hey day ...

This is an amazing video .. serioously check this out .. its 20 years old ... and the debate is unbelievable ....

Cypress
09-03-2006, 10:31 AM
SO my husband flips on this show on VH-1 called "The Metal Years" or something like that. Well,we start watching because I was a big hair band gal,and he was into the harder stuff. While watching,Sebastian Bach of Skid Row is talking about the Republicans and how the Reagan people were somehow behind wanting rock and roll to go away. Someone else said something too,I think it was Dee Snider of Twisted Sister

Anyway,my question is...wasn't it Tipper Gore,wife of AL,that lead the revolt against rock? As we all know,they are big Dems. She also lead the PMRC which was some kind of stupid organization against rock. AM I right? I don't remember Reagan saying too much about it. Just wondering.

You can always point to some democrat who is socially moderate or conservative who objects to rap or metal.

It was the religious rightwing who shows up at Twisted Sister and Marilyn Manson shows to protest - not the ACLU.

Damocles
09-03-2006, 10:46 AM
LOL. I never once saw anybody protesting at a Twisted Sister concert. This is a case of inflated ego, not of actual protest. They actually Thanked Tipper on their Come Out and Play album for promoting it for them...

Tipper was the head of that particular beast.

Cypress
09-03-2006, 11:37 AM
SO my husband flips on this show on VH-1 called "The Metal Years" or something like that. Well,we start watching because I was a big hair band gal,and he was into the harder stuff. While watching,Sebastian Bach of Skid Row is talking about the Republicans and how the Reagan people were somehow behind wanting rock and roll to go away. Someone else said something too,I think it was Dee Snider of Twisted Sister

Anyway,my question is...wasn't it Tipper Gore,wife of AL,that lead the revolt against rock? As we all know,they are big Dems. She also lead the PMRC which was some kind of stupid organization against rock. AM I right? I don't remember Reagan saying too much about it. Just wondering.

this might help you remember:

In October 1985, President Ronald Reagan insinuates that "reactionary" and "obscene" rock music does not deserve Constitutional protection. Reagan states "I don't believe that our Founding Fathers ever intended to create a nation where the rights of pornographers would take precedence over the rights of parents, and the violent and malevolent would be given free rein to prey upon our children."


http://ericnuzum.com/banned/incidents/80s.html


Former U.S. President Reagan condemned the record industry for selling pornography (Coletti 1987:427). Shortly after the Senate Hearings, on October 9, 1985, Reagan stated that the music business was exposing children to a "glorification of drugs and violence and perversity" (cited in McDonald 1988a:304). In 1987, at a symposium organized by the PMRC, U.S. Surgeon General Dr. Everett Koop stated that many music videos "are a combination of senseless violence and senseless pornography to the beat of rock music" (quoted in Gow 1990:2).


http://www.cas.sc.edu/socy/faculty/deflem/zzcens97.htm

Damocles
09-03-2006, 11:45 AM
Cypress, who founded the PMRC?

Damocles
09-03-2006, 11:46 AM
Who debated, in that video presented on this thread, with Frank Zappa in front of the Senate?

Two quotes in a newspaper is not the same as dedicating your life and time to silencing. As well as holding actual burning ceremonies...

Cypress
09-03-2006, 11:48 AM
Who debated, in that video presented on this thread, with Frank Zappa in front of the Senate?

Two quotes in a newspaper is not the same as dedicating your life and time to silencing. As well as holding actual burning ceremonies...

Krisy asked what why Dee Snider pointed out reagan. The answer was provided in my post.

Dee Snider was there. You, Krisy and I were not.

Care4all
09-03-2006, 11:51 AM
Cypress, who founded the PMRC?


4 women, BOTH republican and democratic.

The Parents Music Resource Center (PMRC) was an American committee formed in 1985 by four mothers: Tipper Gore, wife of Senator and later Vice President Al Gore; Susan Baker, wife of Treasury Secretary James Baker; Pam Howar, wife of Washington realtor Raymond Howar; and Sally Nevius, wife of Washington City Council Chairman John Nevius. The mothers were known as the "Washington wives" – a reference to their husbands' connections with the federal government. The Center eventually grew to include 22 directors.

Damocles
09-03-2006, 11:54 AM
That is my point. Attempting to blame Reagan for the actions of others is misplaced blame. It is inane. Reagan makes a couple of supporting statements in an article and suddenly he is the founding father of restrictions?

I'm not ignoring the RR's involvement, in fact I speak out consistently against it. I just like to lay blame where it actually belongs. Pointing at the wrong target does not get the job done.

krisy
09-03-2006, 11:54 AM
As a method of combating this problem, the PMRC suggested a voluntary move by the RIAA and the music industry to develop "guidelines and/or a rating system" similar to the MPAA film rating system.

The Parents Music Resource Center (PMRC) was an American committee formed in 1985 by four mothers: Tipper Gore, wife of Senator and later Vice President Al Gore; Susan Baker, wife of Treasury Secretary James Baker; Pam Howar, wife of Washington realtor Raymond Howar; and Sally Nevius, wife of Washington City Council Chairman John Nevius. The mothers were known as the "Washington wives" – a reference to their husbands' connections with the federal government. The Center eventually grew to include 22 directors.

The mothers claimed that popular music, especially rock music, was partially responsible for the (at the time) recent increase in rape, teenage pregnancy, and teen suicide. The PMRC's mission was "to educate and inform parents" about "the growing trend in music towards lyrics that are sexually explicit, excessively violent, or glorify the use of drugs and alcohol", and to seek the censorship and rating of music.

hmmmmmm, no mention of Republican Howard Baker's wife being one of the initial four or all of the other Republicans that were a part of this movement?

this was all tipper!

LOL


That's wonderful,care. Do you have a link? I know many members on here,since we are all just people on the internet,would fell better to see one. Just wondering

Next, if there were Republicans involved,then fine. These rock stars totally ignore the fact that their man AL Gore's wife wants to censor them. They go completely around it. Like I said,their i.q.'s probably aren't too high,but let's not blame it ALL on the R's

Damocles
09-03-2006, 11:55 AM
And Cypress, it is disingenuous to compare a couple statements to the lifetime work of Tipper. And attempting to say I wasn't there is foolishness. Of course I was. I was one of the long-hairs all up in arms about the attempt to silence their music.

Cypress
09-03-2006, 11:57 AM
That is my point. Attempting to blame Reagan for the actions of others is misplaced blame. It is inane. Reagan makes a couple of supporting statements in an article and suddenly he is the founding father of restrictions?

I'm not ignoring the RR's involvement, in fact I speak out consistently against it. I just like to lay blame where it actually belongs. Pointing at the wrong target does not get the job done.

For an american president to even make several statements about Rock albums is highly unusual.. C'mon, its rock music, for crying out loud.

This is typically beneath the decorum and status of the office. Clearly, Reagan intended to be very supportive of censorship actions against the music industry.

I'm I suprised some moderate democrats, and southern baptist democrats were on board? No.

Where was the ACLU and the true progressives? They were against the baptists, againt gore, against reagan, and against the religious rightwing on this issue.

krisy
09-03-2006, 11:57 AM
And Cypress, it is disingenuous to compare a couple statements to the lifetime work of Tipper. And attempting to say I wasn't there is foolishness. Of course I was. I was one of the long-hairs all up in arms about the attempt to silence their music.



Really?!!!!!:eek:

krisy
09-03-2006, 12:00 PM
For an american president to even make several statements about Rock albums is highly unusual.. C'mon, its rock music, for crying out loud.

This is typically beneath the decorum and status of the office. Clearly, Reagan intended to be very supportive of censorship actions against the music industry.

I'm I suprised some moderate democrats, and southern baptist democrats were on board? No.

Where was the ACLU and the true progressives? They were against the baptists, againt gore, against reagan, and against the religious rightwing on this issue.


Funny how the ACLU is always for freedom of speech until it involves Christianity....you know the "hollyrollers"

Damocles
09-03-2006, 12:01 PM
For an american president to even make several statements about Rock albums is highly unusual.. C'mon, its rock music, for crying out loud.

This is typically beneath the decorum and status of the office. Clearly, Reagan intended to be very supportive of censorship actions against the music industry.

I'm I suprised some moderate democrats, and southern baptist democrats were on board? No.

Where was the ACLU and the true progressives? They were against the baptists, againt gore, against reagan, and against the religious rightwing on this issue.
Rubbish, you ignore it was AFTER he was in office that at least one of those statements you posted was made... That is what FORMER means...

Sir Evil
09-03-2006, 12:01 PM
Excellent, let's draw lines over who is and not for rock stars now, who the hell cares who was behind it all, dem or conserv or neocon or whatever. Does it really make a key issue to anything really important? Gotta love the non-partisan discussions that come along with anything so simplistic.

What's next, a partisan debate over a post about someones choice of music, and why they listen to it?

Damocles
09-03-2006, 12:03 PM
Really?!!!!!:eek:
Yeah, really.

Damocles
09-03-2006, 12:04 PM
For an american president to even make several statements about Rock albums is highly unusual.. C'mon, its rock music, for crying out loud.

This is typically beneath the decorum and status of the office. Clearly, Reagan intended to be very supportive of censorship actions against the music industry.

I'm I suprised some moderate democrats, and southern baptist democrats were on board? No.

Where was the ACLU and the true progressives? They were against the baptists, againt gore, against reagan, and against the religious rightwing on this issue.
Oh, and the ACLU, according to them, is a non-partisan organization. Are you simply ignoring their own ideation to say that they are Democrats because the RR is always agaist them?

Cypress
09-03-2006, 12:05 PM
Rubbish, you ignore it was AFTER he was in office that at least one of those statements you posted was made... That is what FORMER means...

Nice spin Damo.

Okay, you win. Its all the fault of the Demcrats and liberals. The religious rightwing and Reagan really had nothing to do with it.

As far as I know, what Gore ultimately recommended was a voluntary warning label. Not a ban.

In contrast, Reagan said raunch rock music wasn't constitutionally protected - that it could be banned, by implication.

Care4all
09-03-2006, 12:06 PM
That's wonderful,care. Do you have a link? I know many members on here,since we are all just people on the internet,would fell better to see one. Just wondering

Next, if there were Republicans involved,then fine. These rock stars totally ignore the fact that their man AL Gore's wife wants to censor them. They go completely around it. Like I said,their i.q.'s probably aren't too high,but let's not blame it ALL on the R's

just put pmrc in google, it's the first one? not too hard krisy...?

and there are hundreds of other links there too that may enlighten you on the subject since you DID START the thread on this and asked the question, you might be interested in reading a little more on it instead of being happy with YOUR OWN conclusion in the first place, ya know? and i am sorry if that comes off ''mean'' but that is how it ''appears'' to me.... :(

anyway, for you...
the link i chose to use...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PMRC

Damocles
09-03-2006, 12:09 PM
Nice spin Damo.

Okay, you win. Its all the fault of the Demcrats and liberals. The religious rightwing and Reagan really had nothing to do with it.

As far as I know, what Gore ultimately recommended was a voluntary warning label. Not a ban.

In contrast, Reagan said raunch rock music wasn't constitutionally protected - that it could be banned, by implication.
Look, I already stated earlier that the RR was involved. I have simply stated that blaming REAGAN is misguided anger. Reagan never worked wholeheartedly towards this kind of thing, it is disingenuous to suggest so just because you found some statements. What law did he sign about it? What restrictions did he put in place? Which did he call for while in office? Come on...

The RR did work with Gore on this, yes. But Reagan? Rubbish.

krisy
09-03-2006, 12:11 PM
just put pmrc in google, it's the first one? not too hard krisy...?

and there are hundreds of other links there too that may enlighten you on the subject since you DID START the thread on this and asked the question, you might be interested in reading a little more on it instead of being happy with YOUR OWN conclusion in the first place, ya know? and i am sorry if that comes off ''mean'' but that is how it ''appears'' to me.... :(

anyway, for you...
the link i chose to use...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PMRC


Actually,it wasn't my conclusion,it was what I remembered,but not sure if I was right. Hence,the reason I asked if anyone else happened to remember. Really not important enough for me to go scavenging around the interent for.

Don't be so offended. Your Lib buddies ask for links all the time:pke: :)

Cypress
09-03-2006, 12:13 PM
I never denied tipper gore was involved.

I think the truth of the matter, is that its probably good moderate and conservative democrats were involved. Tipper was a zealot, no doubt.

But, if you had a commission simply made up of rightwing Jerry Falwell clones, they would have recommended a ban. The moderates played a role, by influencing the recommendation to be a voluntary warning label.

I don't have heart-attacks at night worrying about voluntary warning labels. I would have a heart attack about Reagan's vision: that ranchy music is NOT constitutionally protected.

Damocles
09-03-2006, 12:18 PM
I never denied tipper gore was involved.

I think the truth of the matter, is that its probably good moderate and conservative democrats were involved. Tipper was a zealot, no doubt.

But, if you had a commission simply made up of rightwing Jerry Falwell clones, they would have recommended a ban. The moderates played a role, by influencing the recommendation to be a voluntary warning label.

I don't have heart-attacks at night worrying about voluntary warning labels. I would have a heart attack about Reagan's vision: that ranchy music is NOT constitutionally protected.
M'eh! He played to an audience. Actions speak louder than words. He was in a position to make a huge difference if he actually believed that strongly about it. Instead he took almost no action and called for no change while in that position. Politicians often play to that kind of thing, even after they leave office. However their actions speak for more loudly to what they actually did believe.

Damocles
09-03-2006, 12:18 PM
My whole point is saying "Reagan did it!" is simply pointing at the wrong culprit. It wasn't Reagan who Zappa debated, and that was because it wasn't Reagan making the argument.

Cypress
09-03-2006, 12:21 PM
This is a historical perspective from Dee Snider I presume.

Reagan was the widely acknowledge national representative of the "moral majority" movement in the 1980s. He was the public face, and most recognizable person which represents the strenght of that movement.

Tipper Gore is a senator's wife and an asterisk in history.

When people blame the turblent 1960s and the vietnam war on somebody, LBJ gets the blame. Not some republican senator who voted for the Tonkin Gulf resolution, or his gadfly wife who cheerled it.

Damocles
09-03-2006, 12:23 PM
LBJ was a major reason we were there. Reagan was a President who did nearly nothing towards what they complain about. The two are not equitable.

Care4all
09-03-2006, 12:26 PM
LBJ was a major reason we were there. Reagan was a President who did nearly nothing towards what they complain about. The two are not equitable.


was HE REALLY the main reason we were in vietnam, or was IKE the main reason we were in viet nam?

Cypress
09-03-2006, 12:26 PM
LBJ was a major reason we were there. Reagan was a President who did nearly nothing towards what they complain about. The two are not equitable.

It happened with Reagan's blessing. Virtually nothing gets done on capitol hill without the support and blessing of the president.

The wife of Reagan's Secreatary of State was one of the founding members of PRRC. Did the censorship movement have the full blessing of reagan? You bet.

Care4all
09-03-2006, 12:34 PM
Actually,it wasn't my conclusion,it was what I remembered,but not sure if I was right. Hence,the reason I asked if anyone else happened to remember. Really not important enough for me to go scavenging around the interent for.

Don't be so offended. Your Lib buddies ask for links all the time:pke: :)
it was enough importance for you to start a THREAD on it krisy...just thought you REALLY wanted to know about the issue...sorry that you really didn't care about it...how was i to know that you post things that you really don't care about learning about, afterall, you are new to the site, and i hadn't pegged you as THAT TYPE YET?

i differ with my so called ''lib buddies'' on several democratic issues, fyi...

and since we're getting to ''know'' eachother... ;)

do you ever differ with your "con compadres"?

care

Damocles
09-03-2006, 12:34 PM
It happened with Reagan's blessing. Virtually nothing gets done on capitol hill without the support and blessing of the president.

The wife of Reagan's Secreatary of State was one of the founding members of PRRC. Did the censorship movement have the full blessing of reagan? You bet.
Most of those laws happened after Reagan left. His "blessing" was, once again, catering to a group but not the central theme. He was not the driving force. To say that Reagan had more to do with it than Tipper is laughable to the extreme level.

evince
09-03-2006, 12:36 PM
But he has a video showing Topper?

That means what the others did doesnt matter.

Damocles
09-03-2006, 12:37 PM
But he has a video showing Topper?

That means what the others did doesnt matter.
You are making little sense. Nobody has claimed what others had done had no impact.

Annie
09-03-2006, 12:39 PM
You are making little sense. Nobody has claimed what others had done had no impact.

This is when I wish you had 'rep'.

Care4all
09-03-2006, 12:39 PM
Does MADD make the drinking and driving law changes or does congress make them? hmmmmmmm?

Cypress
09-03-2006, 12:48 PM
Most of those laws happened after Reagan left. His "blessing" was, once again, catering to a group but not the central theme. He was not the driving force. To say that Reagan had more to do with it than Tipper is laughable to the extreme level.


Laws? I'm unaware that any laws were passed.

The PMRC recommended that the music industry voluntarily put warning labels on albums with explicit lyrics.

This is hardly the type of thing that gives me a heart attack, and comtemplate an assault on the Constitution.

What laws were passed? I must be missing something.

Annie
09-03-2006, 12:52 PM
Laws? I'm unaware that any laws were passed.

The PMRC recommended that the music industry voluntarily put warning labels on albums with explicit lyrics.

This is hardly the type of thing that gives me a heart attack, and comtemplate an assault on the Constitution.

What laws were passed? I must be missing something.

They keep trying:

http://divisionoflabour.com/archives/001455.php

Damocles
09-03-2006, 12:57 PM
Laws? I'm unaware that any laws were passed.

The PMRC recommended that the music industry voluntarily put warning labels on albums with explicit lyrics.

This is hardly the type of thing that gives me a heart attack, and comtemplate an assault on the Constitution.

What laws were passed? I must be missing something.
Which was my point... It can't be all Reagan's fault when he really did nothing toward it. You can keep repeating this inane stuff but it really does finally end with the fact that Reagan didn't actually do anything towards this....

Cypress
09-03-2006, 01:01 PM
Which was my point... It can't be all Reagan's fault when he really did nothing toward it. You can keep repeating this inane stuff but it really does finally end with the fact that Reagan didn't actually do anything towards this....

So nobody passed any laws.

The PMRC advocated voluntary labels.

And Reagan went a step further, and said raunch music wasn't protected constitutionally.


Of those two options, PMRC's position is the more reasonable one.

Care4all
09-03-2006, 01:05 PM
oh, revisionism is occurring on this thread...imo!
it appears, especially with pat Buchanan on his team...., that the RR/moral majority and reagan were closely connected overall....and definately to this issue...

i just found this clip in my search on this...it's pretty funny!

:cof1:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

June 25, 1986
BRIEFING; Pornography and Laughter
By ROBIN TONER AND WARREN WEAVER JR.
Most bold new ideas in Government circles are either ignored or shuffled off into the bureaucratic process never to reappear, but once in a while a suggestion is simply laughed out of existence. The other day, President Reagan was meeting with senior staff members at the White House, and the recent report by the Attorney General's Commission on Pornography came up, according to one of the participants.

The commission majority had concluded that exposure to pornography ''bears some causal relationship to the level of sexual violence, sexual coercion or unwanted sexual aggression,'' and Patrick J. Buchanan, the White House director of communications, proposed that the Administration use this conclusion to ban the sale of Playboy and Penthouse from all post exchanges on military bases.

There was a long pause, and then, the source said, another White House official observed: ''Well, that would certainly do wonders for our recruiting program.'' The room burst into laughter, in which President Reagan enthusiastically joined, and the idea was not raised again.

Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company

Care4all
09-03-2006, 01:32 PM
oh, and this too...

this comes from a great article on censorship...

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/con04.htm
In 1985, President Reagan's Attorney General, Edwin Meese, convened
another commission, stating that "re-examination of the issue of
pornography is long overdue." The Meese Commission, chaired by a
zealous anti-pornography federal prosecutor, held public hearings at
which a parade of witnesses recounted tales of sexual abuse. The
commission then declared that it had established a link between such
abuse and pornography and proposed new censorship laws. Soon
afterwards several prominent scientists whose studies the
Commission's report had cited disassociated themselves from the
report, charging that their research had been misrepresented.


there is this too...

Question: ** Why does the ACLU
object to movie ratings, music labeling, or other voluntary rating
systems? Don't they give guidance to consumers, especially parents?

Answer: "Voluntary" is a misnomer, given that the movie rating and music
labeling systems were established to placate private pressure groups
bent on censorship. As one commentator put it, such systems "amount
to an elegant form of censorship--elegant because it is censorship
made to look like consumer information "

Damocles
09-03-2006, 01:34 PM
Pornography is not the same thing as records... This doesn't really fit in this thread.

krisy
09-03-2006, 01:37 PM
it was enough importance for you to start a THREAD on it krisy...just thought you REALLY wanted to know about the issue...sorry that you really didn't care about it...how was i to know that you post things that you really don't care about learning about, afterall, you are new to the site, and i hadn't pegged you as THAT TYPE YET?

i differ with my so called ''lib buddies'' on several democratic issues, fyi...

and since we're getting to ''know'' eachother... ;)

do you ever differ with your "con compadres"?

care


It was important enough to start a thread on a message board. That should say it all,dear. It was in the whatever goes section at that. That would not qualify as important to me. Important is making sure my kids are healthy and taken care of. That my health is o.k.,same for the hubby. That I can pay my bills.

Your taking things way to serious. I'm not that worried about it. It was just a question about some rock n roll types(or non rock n roll types). SOo things on here are good things to be debated and some are just not that important. I mean,are all robdaman or whoever he is,are all his threads about gay dates important...not really,to me at least

And actually,I do occasionally stray from the right wing,but not on much,and I'm not ashamed of that.

I'm cool with what you found,there were Republicans involvolved too. They are all a holes for it IMO...see,I can critisize the right wing;)

Care4all
09-03-2006, 01:42 PM
ok krisy....I don't usually respond to something unless I've looked it up and gotten some of the scoop on it, so this whole thing could have been "my issue" with wanting to know more about the subjuect before responding.

;)

care

Care4all
09-03-2006, 01:44 PM
ps, i'm 2 decades older than you 4 sure!...no need to call me dear, i've finally become accustomed to mam... :(

care

krisy
09-03-2006, 01:47 PM
ps, i'm 2 decades older than you 4 sure!...no need to call me dear, i've finally become accustomed to mam... :(

care

lol!!!

YES MAM!!!:cof1: :)

Hope your having a good weekend...mam;)

Care4all
09-03-2006, 02:04 PM
lol!!!

YES MAM!!!:cof1: :)

Hope your having a good weekend...mam;)

hahaha! I take it BACK! I still haven't become accustomed to it....my mind is 30 years behind my body, that's for certain!

Gaffer
09-03-2006, 06:26 PM
If you want to talk censorship you can go back a long ways. I will pick out just one. Under a democratic president by the way. In which the FBI got involved checking out the lyrics. It was banned in certain states and created a massive uproar throughout the country. It was sung by a guy who was not the regular singer of the group and who sang it standing five feet under the microphone and singing as loud as he could into the air. He was also not familar with the words and the song was recorded in one take. As a demo for a job on a cruise ship. They didn't get the job but had a great hit song and stirred up all sorts of censorship issues.

The song was Louie Louie by the kingsmens.

the democrats ruled the hill. Kennedy was in office. And censorship in movies and music was very prominent. even the word hell was banned from the radio.

Did I see that care4 uses wikipedia for research? Is that the same wikipedia that invites people to put in their own definitions of things and revise history as they see it wikipedia?

Sir Evil
09-03-2006, 07:38 PM
Did I see that care4 uses wikipedia for research? Is that the same wikipedia that invites people to put in their own definitions of things and revise history as they see it wikipedia?

LOL, you are gonna get their own definitions here like it or not, same ones you can read at every other democratic board for the most part. You can probably give her a slight more credibility then that though.

maineman
09-03-2006, 07:45 PM
care...it seems to me that this duo of sir evil and gaffer might very well be trolls of SR designed to drive us all back to FP.com

Care4all
09-03-2006, 07:50 PM
If you want to talk censorship you can go back a long ways. I will pick out just one. Under a democratic president by the way. In which the FBI got involved checking out the lyrics. It was banned in certain states and created a massive uproar throughout the country. It was sung by a guy who was not the regular singer of the group and who sang it standing five feet under the microphone and singing as loud as he could into the air. He was also not familar with the words and the song was recorded in one take. As a demo for a job on a cruise ship. They didn't get the job but had a great hit song and stirred up all sorts of censorship issues.

The song was Louie Louie by the kingsmens.

the democrats ruled the hill. Kennedy was in office. And censorship in movies and music was very prominent. even the word hell was banned from the radio.

Did I see that care4 uses wikipedia for research? Is that the same wikipedia that invites people to put in their own definitions of things and revise history as they see it wikipedia?

Is that the best you can do, is critique Wikipedia Gaffer? I said there were thousands of other links on the google search....? Did you bother even looking to see if they said the SAME as wikipedia? (shakes head)

you guys are really some rough mottley crew I tell ya....didn't know that people like you all really existed in the world.....guess that's what I get for living in my small little world of loving everyone...oh well.... :(

Sir Evil
09-03-2006, 07:53 PM
care...it seems to me that this duo of sir evil and gaffer might very well be trolls of SR designed to drive us all back to FP.com

dunno who SR or what actually your other board is all about, could care less to tell ya the truth. Gonna call me a troll when ya bitch slap me to big man?

Sir Evil
09-03-2006, 07:56 PM
you guys are really some rough mottley crew I tell ya....didn't know that people like you all really existed in the world.....guess that's what I get for living in my small little world of loving everyone...oh well.... :(

LOL, and where might this little world reside outside of your little mind? hate me, hate him, I'm sure were upset. we are trolls ya know, your fellow tough guy says so, yeah the one that is good for calling you woman c*nts......

maineman
09-03-2006, 08:02 PM
dunno who SR or what actually your other board is all about, could care less to tell ya the truth. Gonna call me a troll when ya bitch slap me to big man?


you gonna send me a PM with your address so that I can? Or am I supposed to just head south bitchslapping every moron I see until I find you?

Cypress
09-03-2006, 08:05 PM
Is that the best you can do, is critique Wikipedia Gaffer? I said there were thousands of other links on the google search....? Did you bother even looking to see if they said the SAME as wikipedia? (shakes head)

you guys are really some rough mottley crew I tell ya....didn't know that people like you all really existed in the world.....guess that's what I get for living in my small little world of loving everyone...oh well.... :(

Boll-weevil is just another toby. Useless. Why are you bothering?

Sir Evil
09-03-2006, 08:06 PM
you gonna send me a PM with your address so that I can? Or am I supposed to just head south bitchslapping every moron I see until I find you?

I having nothing to hide from anyone, I reside in Edison, NJ..... You tell me when, I'll be there!

Sir Evil
09-03-2006, 08:09 PM
Boll-weevil is just another toby. Useless. Why are you bothering?

LOL, finally out of hiding mudflap? go ahead and join your buddy for the ride, I would certainly like to see how bad you are then without your keyboard.
Walk the walk for a change ya sissy......

maineman
09-03-2006, 08:14 PM
I having nothing to hide from anyone, I reside in Edison, NJ..... You tell me when, I'll be there!

Shit... I wouldn't go to New Jersey if somebody paid me... that disgusting cesspool of a state????? Fuck that...if you are so dead set on getting bitchslapped....come on up here. I really have no desire to drive to New Jersey for anything....I don't even like driving THROUGH New Jersey. ;)

Sir Evil
09-03-2006, 08:18 PM
Shit... I wouldn't go to New Jersey if somebody paid me... that disgusting cesspool of a state????? Fuck that...if you are so dead set on getting bitchslapped....come on up here. I really have no desire to drive to New Jersey for anything....I don't even like driving THROUGH New Jersey. ;)

LOL, no big surprises there.......

maineman
09-03-2006, 08:46 PM
LOL, no big surprises there.......

so when can I expect you?:cof1:

Care4all
09-03-2006, 08:50 PM
my husband's old job headquartered in edison, nj....plus he had menlo park as a mall in his district

Sir Evil
09-03-2006, 08:51 PM
Hey fella, you wanna talk the talk so walk the walk, want your respect, come get yourself some! Other from that I have nothing to say. I don't hide, I can be easily found at any given time.

So with that I have already told Damocles I'll tune out after tonight so y'all don't have to run back to your other little playhouse and play pat each other on the back. I have no need to do what you call discussing around here. The guy worked to make a good board so be supportive to him at least.

Sir Evil
09-03-2006, 08:52 PM
my husband's old job headquartered in edison, nj....plus he had menlo park as a mall in his district

Hell that is a rock throw away from me, send him on with the maineman, maybe they can set me head staright.....:rolleyes:

Care4all
09-03-2006, 09:01 PM
Hey fella, you wanna talk the talk so walk the walk, want your respect, come get yourself some! Other from that I have nothing to say. I don't hide, I can be easily found at any given time.

So with that I have already told Damocles I'll tune out after tonight so y'all don't have to run back to your other little playhouse and play pat each other on the back. I have no need to do what you call discussing around here. The guy worked to make a good board so be supportive to him at least.

sir evil, you are the best out of the lot and certainly the most fun for me so far....and i am sure the others are good people as well....you just all seem to stick together like glue, even if one of your compadres may be wrong....i guess that should be expected since you are all friends, but i have lots of friends from both sides of the aisle, and i don't hesitate to tell them they are wrong or out of line, when i think they are... ask maineman if he hasn't gotten my scolding a time or two!

maybe if you STOPPED pushing the us against ''them'' thing we could all become at least respectfully civil....

but please don't think that i must agree with you on issues that i plainly disagree with in order to like you as a person....i tend to be drawn to those i don't agree with, their messed up minds intrigue me! lol :D

Sir Evil
09-03-2006, 09:14 PM
sir evil, you are the best out of the lot and certainly the most fun for me so far....and i am sure the others are good people as well....you just all seem to stick together like glue, even if one of your compadres may be wrong....i guess that should be expected since you are all friends, but i have lots of friends from both sides of the aisle, and i don't hesitate to tell them they are wrong or out of line, when i think they are... ask maineman if he hasn't gotten my scolding a time or two!

maybe if you STOPPED pushing the us against ''them'' thing we could all become at least respectfully civil....

but please don't think that i must agree with you on issues that i plainly disagree with in order to like you as a person....i tend to be drawn to those i don't agree with, their messed up minds intrigue me! lol :D

LOL, lets not call it what it's not Care! We haven't found a single piece of middle ground here whatsoever. I have never askedyou or anyone here with an opposing view to see it my way as I am smart enough to know that is simply my own opinion. We are not the stick like bunch at all, I think it has been very obvious that the ones that are here from my side simply don't agree on everything, and have vastly different ways about our approach to discussing an issue. The views may be similar but not a single member that I have brought here has an issue with agreeing to what can't be agreed to. There are no discussions here, it's a simple fuckfest of I am right and you are wrong, that is not discussing at all, in fact I know damn well what my opinion is so I need not have anyone tell me it's wrong.

Honestly, it's the very divide that is in America today, it's not this or that, it's simply the power struggle that resides. I don't wanna discuss that and then be told I am wrong. It's nothing personal against any individual here, not even the sissy cypress, but Damocles worked hard to give you all something that I am not gonna sit around and watch fall apart because somebody had there feelings hurt over being right or wrong on a issue. I'll tell ya though, agrreing with everyone you discuss an issue with had got to get boring, but anway it's not for me.....

maineman
09-03-2006, 09:16 PM
Hey fella, you wanna talk the talk so walk the walk, want your respect, come get yourself some! Other from that I have nothing to say. I don't hide, I can be easily found at any given time.

So with that I have already told Damocles I'll tune out after tonight so y'all don't have to run back to your other little playhouse and play pat each other on the back. I have no need to do what you call discussing around here. The guy worked to make a good board so be supportive to him at least.

I wouldn't walk across the street to get respect from you...it really is of no consequence to me. If you were to show up for a bitchslapping at my house, I'd be happy to oblige.... other than that...don't let the door hit your well travelled ass on the way out.

Sir Evil
09-03-2006, 09:21 PM
I wouldn't walk across the street to get respect from you...it really is of no consequence to me. If you were to show up for a bitchslapping at my house, I'd be happy to oblige.... other than that...don't let the door hit your well travelled ass on the way out.

Yellow fits you well maineman, you make the threat and want me to come to you? lol, your a bigger pussy than I originally expected.. And you wonder why some of the people have the opinions they do about you, it's pretty evident now. You keep talking the talk, you do it well!

maineman
09-03-2006, 09:25 PM
I never threatened you.... but get real, Sir Evil...what sort of a "no-life" loser would I have to be to get in my car and drive nine hours to New Jersey from Maine because some person - gender size age unknown - rubs me the wrong way in an internet chat room?

I have got about five dozen things that are more important to me than confronting someone in New Jersey who can't debate...

Sir Evil
09-03-2006, 09:31 PM
I never threatened you.... but get real, Sir Evil...what sort of a "no-life" loser would I have to be to get in my car and drive nine hours to New Jersey from Maine because some person - gender size age unknown - rubs me the wrong way in an internet chat room?

I have got about five dozen things that are more important to me than confronting someone in New Jersey who can't debate...

Face it their maine, outside of you unimpressive vocabulary that you think impresses you have nothing but the same old rhetoric being tossed around three years gone already. You have a whiny little bitch like rant about statisitcs you look up on the net. "no-life" loser? LOL, I ain't up in buttfucked maine, I live in upperclass my friend, right about where you could'nt afford to make a living!

Go back to playing armchair war, you have no self respect so I certainly would'nt expect you to try to get any respect outside of sitting behind your computer. Your a sissy wannabe an ya know it!

Care4all
09-03-2006, 09:32 PM
LOL, lets not call it what it's not Care! We haven't found a single piece of middle ground here whatsoever. I have never askedyou or anyone here with an opposing view to see it my way as I am smart enough to know that is simply my own opinion. We are not the stick like bunch at all, I think it has been very obvious that the ones that are here from my side simply don't agree on everything, and have vastly different ways about our approach to discussing an issue. The views may be similar but not a single member that I have brought here has an issue with agreeing to what can't be agreed to. There are no discussions here, it's a simple fuckfest of I am right and you are wrong, that is not discussing at all, in fact I know damn well what my opinion is so I need not have anyone tell me it's wrong.

Honestly, it's the very divide that is in America today, it's not this or that, it's simply the power struggle that resides. I don't wanna discuss that and then be told I am wrong. It's nothing personal against any individual here, not even the sissy cypress, but Damocles worked hard to give you all something that I am not gonna sit around and watch fall apart because somebody had there feelings hurt over being right or wrong on a issue. I'll tell ya though, agrreing with everyone you discuss an issue with had got to get boring, but anway it's not for me.....

ok then, let's see the WALK, that goes with that talk and things will be fine!

care

Care4all
09-03-2006, 09:35 PM
Face it their maine, outside of you unimpressive vocabulary that you think impresses you have nothing but the same old rhetoric being tossed around three years gone already. You have a whiny little bitch like rant about statisitcs you look up on the net. "no-life" loser? LOL, I ain't up in buttfucked maine, I live in upperclass my friend, right about where you could'nt afford to make a living!

Go back to playing armchair war, you have no self respect so I certainly would'nt expect you to try to get any respect outside of sitting behind your computer. Your a sissy wannabe an ya know it!

guess YOU can't just help yourself.....

nice! cut on the person instead of debate the issue...what? was it a whole 2 minutes from your obviously bullshit post to me?
:pke:

Sir Evil
09-03-2006, 09:37 PM
guess YOU can't just help yourself.....

nice! cut on the person instead of debate the issue...what? was it a whole 2 minutes from your obviously bullshit post to me?
:pke:

LOL, what on earth is it that you could possibly wanna debate now Care?

Sir Evil
09-03-2006, 09:42 PM
You know what Care, you know how to private message so take it there, I have'nt no more reason to go with the major here in this thred abnd he will be coming back with his two useless cent's throughout whatever is said.
I was waiting around to talk to Damos, other from that I'LL hear whatever you have to say, I'm good with that.

maineman
09-03-2006, 09:46 PM
Face it their maine, outside of you unimpressive vocabulary that you think impresses you have nothing but the same old rhetoric being tossed around three years gone already. You have a whiny little bitch like rant about statisitcs you look up on the net. "no-life" loser? LOL, I ain't up in buttfucked maine, I live in upperclass my friend, right about where you could'nt afford to make a living!

Go back to playing armchair war, you have no self respect so I certainly would'nt expect you to try to get any respect outside of sitting behind your computer. Your a sissy wannabe an ya know it!

What statistics did I look up on the net? what the fuck are you talking about?

And your perceived economic advantage over me is really unsupportable and irrelevant. As I can recall, you had somewhat of a spotty work history. And fyi...I can make a living anywhere I chose.... I chose to live in Maine because - maybe most importantly - it is nothing like New Jersey!

Sir Evil
09-03-2006, 09:54 PM
Care, you complained about my two minutes? I'm waiting.....

Care4all
09-03-2006, 10:00 PM
You know what Care, you know how to private message so take it there, I have'nt no more reason to go with the major here in this thred abnd he will be coming back with his two useless cent's throughout whatever is said.
I was waiting around to talk to Damos, other from that I'LL hear whatever you have to say, I'm good with that.

no need to...

i'll just let you be you....and have to get used to the ''baffle them with your bullshit'' responses from you instead of content....

and i will let maineman be maineman....

who am i to judge or try to change you in to what i am comfortable with?
care

Care4all
09-03-2006, 10:23 PM
Care, you complained about my two minutes? I'm waiting.....
maybe I need to sit back and reserve judgement on you and maybe you should learn a little bit about how some of the people from this site are used to debating...

look at this thread that has been on going on for at least 6 months...

maineman is maineman, WRL, the guy who started the thread is Masterchief on this site, Alpha on this thread is Bravo over here...
http://www.fullpolitics.com/viewthread.php?tid=15439

name calling is definately a part of "the usual" but there is definately some real debate in ther too, once you get over that.... lol

We can do this here also, and we have really on many issues....

but Iraq and all the dead people involved and dead to come if we stay....is a really touchy subject and no place for name calling...we need to figure out what to do now with the whole picture of the middleeast in mind imo.