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Damocles
07-25-2006, 07:51 AM
Does anybody think that Gore will ever run again for President? History shows that if he does he is likely to win again, of course he could set precedent by being the first to win popular vote and lose electorally to not get elected on the second shot... but I doubt it. Would the Ds actually not consider him?

What do you all believe?

robdastud
07-25-2006, 07:58 AM
funny how you say "win again"

Damocles
07-25-2006, 08:02 AM
funny how you say "win again"

Yeah... he won the popular vote. He, however, did not get elected as our Constitution requires electoral victory.

In the past times this has happened the candidate always came forward again and was later elected electorally as well as popularly on the second time. I was wondering why Gore hasn't really thrown his hat in the ring as of yet.... Is he waiting for them to beg him?

Adam Weinberg
07-25-2006, 08:19 AM
I don't think he can win unless he shows great growth as a candidate.

He just comes off as similar to most of the Democratic candidates who have been blasted out of Presidential elections in recent decades.

Damocles
07-25-2006, 08:20 AM
I don't think he can win unless he shows great growth as a candidate.

He just comes off as similar to most of the Democratic candidates who have been blasted out of Presidential elections in recent decades.

He has also been positioning himself as a one-issue candidate lately which limits his exposure to only that one image.

maineman
07-25-2006, 08:28 AM
I think that the democrat wins the "foreign policy/war in Iraq" issue by default. We have another nasty hurricane season and let the talk of global warming ramp up geometrically, and Gore's ONE issue becomes THE issue beyond the war....

A lot can happen between now and '07

Jarod
07-25-2006, 08:30 AM
I dont think he will run again, he seems happy in his position as party elder.

Damocles
07-25-2006, 08:32 AM
I think that the democrat wins the "foreign policy/war in Iraq" issue by default. We have another nasty hurricane season and let the talk of global warming ramp up geometrically, and Gore's ONE issue becomes THE issue beyond the war....

A lot can happen between now and '07

I think the border and ports will trump that issue. It is all part and parsel of the "WOT"... without borders there is no nation. Gore's one issue can become THE issue for people who focused in that area before, but it won't become 'the' issue for most of the nation...

I would be interested to see him run.. It isn't like the GOP has any supergreat candidate that will gaurantee a victory any more than the Ds have...

Jarod
07-25-2006, 08:34 AM
Id like him to run, think he has a better chance at winning than Sennator Clinton... I just dont think he will.

Damocles
07-25-2006, 08:36 AM
Id like him to run, think he has a better chance at winning than Sennator Clinton... I just dont think he will.

I think many are put off by seeing the same names over and over again... I, for one, am tired of these legacy presidencies. Out of 300 million people these legacy families are the best we can come up with?

Jarod
07-25-2006, 08:41 AM
Agreed. Id like to see some new names in the mix.

I wish Christine Whitman would run...

Of corse thats not a new name, she is a direct decendent of Abraham Lincon's wife.

Damocles
07-25-2006, 08:46 AM
Agreed. Id like to see some new names in the mix.

I wish Christine Whitman would run...

Of corse thats not a new name, she is a direct decendent of Abraham Lincon's wife.

That is more than fine... Long enough and far away. Not a legacy like Father/Son... Brother... Wife/Husband... There has to be qualified and good choices outside of these elites!

maineman
07-25-2006, 08:53 AM
borders and ports are all part of the WOT and, like I said...the D candidate wins that issue in '08 by default. if we have two horrific hurricane seasons, the environment could jump up big...and Gore owns that issue

robdastud
07-25-2006, 08:56 AM
well maine lets also not forget the selling of military weapons to foreign nations.

Damocles
07-25-2006, 08:58 AM
borders and ports are all part of the WOT and, like I said...the D candidate wins that issue in '08 by default. if we have two horrific hurricane seasons, the environment could jump up big...and Gore owns that issue

I don't think they will win by default. Right now neither side is taking our borders seriously and it is hurting the credibility of both parties. This issue is beyond party at this moment and is likely just to get larger. One or the other must take a strong and very real stand on this or all we will have is more of the same...

They may win on Iraq by default, but not on the border and it is larger than either side is willing to admit at this moment. Tom Tancredo will likely run to pull that issue out into the open in the R Party, who will step up for the Ds?

maineman
07-25-2006, 08:59 AM
well maine lets also not forget the selling of military weapons to foreign nations.
the military industrial complex has been doing that for a tidy profit since WWII...what is your point?

maineman
07-25-2006, 09:01 AM
borders, ports and Iraq.... we tie them all together...we show how much we could have done to secure ports and borders if we hadn't pissed away billions and billions in Iraq..... we wrap the whole thing up in one big package...Tancredo will look like a one issue racist...

Damocles
07-25-2006, 09:06 AM
borders, ports and Iraq.... we tie them all together...we show how much we could have done to secure ports and borders if we hadn't pissed away billions and billions in Iraq..... we wrap the whole thing up in one big package...Tancredo will look like a one issue racist...

I never said he will win, he'll just pull attention to the actual borders/ports and get it to the front of the debate within the party. He won't win and, in fact, doesn't expect to nor want to. In fact he hopes that another will bring this forward so he doesn't have to even run at all.

You don't wrap it in one package. You as a Party, in fact, have decried the rules as too restrictive already and promote an even more open and less restrictive policy. That is not border security. Ignore it at your peril it is shaping up to be a huge issue in the next Presidential election and whomever truly convinces others that they are serious on this issue is likely to win regardless of the Iraq war... Home is more important than Iraq every time.

LadyT
07-25-2006, 09:07 AM
I doubt he'll run. But like Jarod, I'd prefer him to Clinton. I'd be more apt to nominate someone like Feingold.

Cypress
07-25-2006, 11:20 AM
I don't think he can win unless he shows great growth as a candidate.

He just comes off as similar to most of the Democratic candidates who have been blasted out of Presidential elections in recent decades.


I'm always astonished when I hear about how a democratic candidate just "doesn't come off well".

Why are Dems held to such a higher standard? Bush "comes across" as a clueless, uniformed boob. A frat-boy prankster at best. But, perhaps a boob you'd have a beer with. Gore and Kerry at least seemed like well informed and competent people, who were capable of articulating their own thoughts and postions.

maineman
07-25-2006, 11:28 AM
well said, Cypress

Jarod
07-25-2006, 12:29 PM
I'm always astonished when I hear about how a democratic candidate just "doesn't come off well".

Why are Dems held to such a higher standard? Bush "comes across" as a clueless, uniformed boob. A frat-boy prankster at best. But, perhaps a boob you'd have a beer with. Gore and Kerry at least seemed like well informed and competent people, who were capable of articulating their own thoughts and postions.


It has to do with expectations.

People expect Democrats to be smart and intelectual. They expect Reublicans to be a bit redneck...

maineman
07-25-2006, 12:35 PM
no kiddin'....Gore WRITES books and he "doesn't come off well".....

Bush can barely READ books and he's the guy you want to have a beer with and want to lead the free world! One would never go broke underestimating the intelligence of the average american.

Cypress
07-25-2006, 12:35 PM
It has to do with expectations.

People expect Democrats to be smart and intelectual. They expect Reublicans to be a bit redneck...

I don't know.

I don't see how its possible for rational people to say Gore or Kerry "didn't come across very well", while bush is clearly the dumbest, most ill-prepared and most inarticulate candidate ever put forth by a major party. Yet all the talk remains on how Gore "didn't connect well".

If people are deciding their votes because Gore sighed too much, walked like a robot, or doesn't seem like a cool guy to have a beer with, they need to have their voter registration cards revoked ;)

robdastud
07-25-2006, 12:36 PM
the military industrial complex has been doing that for a tidy profit since WWII...what is your point?
my point is that its not safe... not in the days after 9/11

Damocles
07-25-2006, 12:37 PM
I don't know.

I don't see how its possible for rational people to say Gore or Kerry "didn't come across very well", while bush is clearly the dumbest, most ill-prepared and most inarticulate candidate ever put forth by a major party. Yet all the talk remains on how Gore "didn't connect well".

If people are deciding their votes because Gore sighed too much, walked like a robot, or doesn't seem like a cool guy to have a beer with, they need to have their voter registration cards revoked ;)

I thought he was articulate and well-spoken. I just thought his politics were wrong. Even the most intelligent person can be 100% wrong...

Had I to do it all over again in the Gore/Bush election I would have gone Libertarian...

robdastud
07-25-2006, 12:38 PM
I thought he was articulate and well-spoken. I just thought his politics were wrong. Even the most intelligent person can be 100% wrong...

Had I to do it all over again in the Gore/Bush election I would have gone Libertarian...



which would have meant nothing since it libertarians have no real following.

Cypress
07-25-2006, 12:38 PM
I thought he was articulate and well-spoken. I just thought his politics were wrong. Even the most intelligent person can be 100% wrong...

Had I to do it all over again in the Gore/Bush election I would have gone Libertarian...


Right. but, my original response what to adam(?), whose only point was that democrats aren't putting forward candidates who "come across well".

WTF? Compared to bush, the come across like rocket scientists!

OrnotBitwise
07-25-2006, 12:39 PM
I don't believe he'll run, though I kind of wish he would. First, he's pretty clearly enjoying his role now. Second, I don't believe he wants to challenge Hillary: they share a closet and know one another's skeletons on a first name basis.

Damocles
07-25-2006, 12:41 PM
which would have meant nothing since it libertarians have no real following.

It would not have been a vote for Bush.

Cypress
07-25-2006, 12:43 PM
I don't believe he'll run, though I kind of wish he would. First, he's pretty clearly enjoying his role now. Second, I don't believe he wants to challenge Hillary: they share a closet and know one another's skeletons on a first name basis.

Concur.

I think Gore wants to work first and foremost on issues he's passionate about: alternative energy, technology. and global warming. As a private citizen he can dedicate himself to a few issues he really cares about.

robdastud
07-25-2006, 12:50 PM
but bush still would have won

Jarod
07-25-2006, 12:54 PM
Bush would still have won, but Damo would have some dignity.

robdastud
07-25-2006, 12:57 PM
lol and maybe some more zzzz's since he's probably up all night

Damocles
07-25-2006, 01:07 PM
but bush still would have won

How many others feel the same as I do? I won't vote for Ds but I won't vote for another "compassionate conservative" ever again. If there were enough of us Bush wouldn't have beat Gore. Shoot if there are only a couple hundred in Florida......

robdastud
07-25-2006, 01:08 PM
gore won florida... come on. fer real...

Damocles
07-25-2006, 01:12 PM
gore won florida... come on. fer real...

Couple hundred less and even if he did it would have been the same in the numbers that counted...

Don't be so disingenuous. People who would normally support an R that change their vote to something else effect elections.

Jarod
07-25-2006, 01:13 PM
There are a lot of ways to look at the ballots.. depending on how you count them Gore appears to have won Florida by about 750 votes. If you dont count the ballots that were dimpled or hanging Bush won Florida by about 157. If you just use the votes turned in by the deadline Bush won by about 1500.

Cypress
07-25-2006, 01:19 PM
There are a lot of ways to look at the ballots.. depending on how you count them Gore appears to have won Florida by about 750 votes. If you dont count the ballots that were dimpled or hanging Bush won Florida by about 157. If you just use the votes turned in by the deadline Bush won by about 1500.

If you count the overvotes (which were legal under florida law), Gore won the state by thousands.

Overvotes are those ballots were somebody punched the hole for gore, but also handwrote "Gore" in the write-in space.

robdastud
07-25-2006, 01:19 PM
i believe deep down, that truly gore won florida.

Cypress
07-25-2006, 01:21 PM
i believe deep down, that truly gore won florida.

It was a judicial coup.

The supreme court should not have stopped the statewide recount.

Jarod
07-25-2006, 01:24 PM
i believe deep down, that truly gore won florida.


Depending on how you look at it, he did.

robdastud
07-25-2006, 01:31 PM
It was a judicial coup.

The supreme court should not have stopped the statewide recount.


funny the R's don't complain about judicial activism when it benefits them.

Jarod
07-25-2006, 01:33 PM
funny the R's don't complain about judicial activism when it benefits them.


Correct, there are countless examples of such...

Damocles
07-25-2006, 01:33 PM
It was so fricking close regardless that a few hundred people like me would have made the difference... There would have been no SCOTUS ruling, etc.

Jarod
07-25-2006, 01:35 PM
Correct, there are countless examples of such...


They also dont care about States Rights unless its an issue where the argument benefits them.

robdastud
07-25-2006, 01:36 PM
Correct, there are countless examples of such...


jerod were you on fullpol.coM?

Jarod
07-25-2006, 01:55 PM
jerod were you on fullpol.coM?

Yes, can you guess who I am?

Damocles
07-25-2006, 01:56 PM
They also dont care about States Rights unless its an issue where the argument benefits them.

Schiavo...

That one wasn't just State Rights, but also Individual Rights... It was repulsive.

Jarod
07-25-2006, 01:59 PM
Other examples are medical marijuana and assisted suicide.

States legalized medical marijuana and assisted suicide.. the Republicans fought it tooth and nail.

robdastud
07-25-2006, 01:59 PM
Yes, can you guess who I am?


Well you spell too good to be allexx. Jeepers maybe?? Chapdog?

Damocles
07-25-2006, 02:04 PM
Well you spell too good to be allexx. Jeepers maybe?? Chapdog?

I don't recognize the "voice" I am thinking it may be somebody we haven't seen in a while.

Jarod
07-25-2006, 02:05 PM
Well you spell too good to be allexx. Jeepers maybe?? Chapdog?

I am not Jeepers or Chapdog...:cof1:

robdastud
07-25-2006, 02:07 PM
how old are you? are you hot?? are you a dano clone?

Jarod
07-25-2006, 02:10 PM
how old are you? are you hot?? are you a dano clone?

I am hot, but sorry, you are not my type.

robdastud
07-25-2006, 02:13 PM
who are you? Razor? your a liberal kinda right?? im confused. gentoo??

Jarod
07-25-2006, 02:18 PM
who are you? Razor? your a liberal kinda right?? im confused. gentoo??


I am not Razor or Gentoo.:pke:

TheDanold
07-25-2006, 02:40 PM
I don't know.

I don't see how its possible for rational people to say Gore or Kerry "didn't come across very well", while bush is clearly the dumbest, most ill-prepared and most inarticulate candidate ever put forth by a major party. Yet all the talk remains on how Gore "didn't connect well".

If people are deciding their votes because Gore sighed too much, walked like a robot, or doesn't seem like a cool guy to have a beer with, they need to have their voter registration cards revoked ;)
Perhaps people don't feel like being ruled by elitists who think they know better than them about how to take care of themselves.
Pol Pot was a very smart intellectual too...

OrnotBitwise
07-25-2006, 02:53 PM
Perhaps people don't feel like being ruled by elitists who think they know better than them about how to take care of themselves.
Pol Pot was a very smart intellectual too...
Which is exactly why no one in their right mind could possibly vote for Bush. He's the elitists' standard bearer these days.

TheDanold
07-25-2006, 03:22 PM
Which is exactly why no one in their right mind could possibly vote for Bush. He's the elitists' standard bearer these days.
He is huh? Nah I'll go with cypriss and say he's more of the chummy have-a-beer-with-me kinda guy.

You can't have both, but I suppose to lefties, Bush is all bad things rolled into one and to hell if any of those things conflict brutally in anyway.

Jarod
07-25-2006, 03:26 PM
Bush is truely an elitest who acts like a have-a-beer with kinda guy. Ha in fact he does not even drink. He thinks he is too good to be asked a question from a guy who has sunglasses on. He comes from an elitest northeast snob family, and I think he fits in!

TheDanold
07-25-2006, 03:29 PM
Well sounds like conflicting stereotypes to me, but I don't really care. Bush has been a colossal failure as a Conservative and his biggest contribution will be proving that the only thing leftists hate more than a Conservative Republican is a Liberal one.

Immanuel
07-25-2006, 03:31 PM
no kiddin'....Gore WRITES books and he "doesn't come off well".....

Bush can barely READ books and he's the guy you want to have a beer with and want to lead the free world! One would never go broke underestimating the intelligence of the average american.

I'd love to have a beer with President Bush. Maybe I could talk some sense into him. It would be quite interesting. Then again, I would have liked to have a friendly dinner with John Kerry when he was running for President. You can't "know" a candidate by what they say for the cameras. A little one on one chat with either one of them might bring about a different view of them as people.

Immie

Jarod
07-25-2006, 03:32 PM
Bush is no liberal... long shot. A liberal would not have attacked Iraq, would not have appointed those loosers to the S.Ct., would never have lowered taxes on those most able to pay (while increasing spending), would never have vetoed stem cell research, would never have appinted that looser to the UN...

Jarod
07-25-2006, 03:33 PM
Well sounds like conflicting stereotypes to me, but I don't really care. Bush has been a colossal failure as a Conservative and his biggest contribution will be proving that the only thing leftists hate more than a Conservative Republican is a Liberal one.



Bush is a good actor, not a good president.

Immanuel
07-25-2006, 03:37 PM
who are you? Razor? your a liberal kinda right?? im confused. gentoo??

Come on, he is definitely NOT Razor.

Immie

Immanuel
07-25-2006, 03:40 PM
Bush is truely an elitest who acts like a have-a-beer with kinda guy. Ha in fact he does not even drink. He thinks he is too good to be asked a question from a guy who has sunglasses on. He comes from an elitest northeast snob family, and I think he fits in!

I think you mis-typed Kerry in the begining of that first sentence.

Immie

Jarod
07-25-2006, 03:47 PM
I think you mis-typed Kerry in the begining of that first sentence.

Immie


No, Kerry is an elitest who acts like an elitest.

Immanuel
07-25-2006, 03:48 PM
Oh and to answer the question of the thread, I would take a whole new look at Presidential Candidate Al Gore in 2008 than I did in 2000 after the last eight years.

That is not to say that I would vote for him for sure, but I would give him a different look now than I did back then.

Immie

Immanuel
07-25-2006, 03:49 PM
No, Kerry is an elitest who acts like an elitest.

Okay, point taken.

Immie

Jarod
07-25-2006, 03:54 PM
Okay, point taken.

Immie


I have more respect for the guy who is himself than the guy who pretends to be something he is not.

Cypress
07-25-2006, 04:01 PM
I have more respect for the guy who is himself than the guy who pretends to be something he is not.

Ummm, while Kerry is well educated and has married a rich women, he didn't grow up "elistist" in the thurston howell-sense of the word.

His father was a mid-level government bureacrat. And I don't think his mom had a career. So, he was well off (not rich), and got a ivy league education, and speaks like he has an ivy league education.

But, it doesn't compare to a family of millionaires like the kennedys and bushs.

OrnotBitwise
07-25-2006, 04:36 PM
Ummm, while Kerry is well educated and has married a rich women, he didn't grow up "elistist" in the thurston howell-sense of the word.

His father was a mid-level government bureacrat. And I don't think his mom had a career. So, he was well off (not rich), and got a ivy league education, and speaks like he has an ivy league education.

But, it doesn't compare to a family of millionaires like the kennedys and bushs.
It all hinges on what we're calling "elitist" now doesn't it. My general observation is that conservatives are more likely to call an educated person, especially an academic, "elitist" whereas liberals are more inclined to so label someone who believes in the perogatives of wealth.

;)

Personally, I call Bush an elitist, not because of his birth and wealth, but because of his beliefs. Of course, it's likely that his beliefs result from his birth and wealth, but that's another question.

Care4all
07-25-2006, 04:51 PM
Ummm, while Kerry is well educated and has married a rich women, he didn't grow up "elistist" in the thurston howell-sense of the word.

His father was a mid-level government bureacrat. And I don't think his mom had a career. So, he was well off (not rich), and got a ivy league education, and speaks like he has an ivy league education.

But, it doesn't compare to a family of millionaires like the kennedys and bushs.

His family was not rich....a relative from his mother's side of the family, paid for his schooling and college because his family did not have the money....

It just so happens that his Mother, had relatives names Forbes....

from what I have read...

Jarod
07-25-2006, 07:56 PM
His family was not rich....a relative from his mother's side of the family, paid for his schooling and college because his family did not have the money....

It just so happens that his Mother, had relatives names Forbes....

from what I have read...


Kerry comes from a rich Boston family. They are related to the Forbes pubilshing family. How do you think he got to be a congressman?

Cypress
07-25-2006, 08:10 PM
Kerry comes from a rich Boston family. They are related to the Forbes pubilshing family. How do you think he got to be a congressman?

"On his mother’s side, Kerry’s blueblood middle name, Forbes, refers not to the family of magazine publishing fame but traces back to the Reverend John Forbes, a Scotsman who held an important colonial position in East Florida and was a loyalist during the Revolution"


http://www.thevillager.com/villager_58/reportersbooktriestoanswer.html

Cancel7
07-26-2006, 05:11 AM
I don't know.

I don't see how its possible for rational people to say Gore or Kerry "didn't come across very well", while bush is clearly the dumbest, most ill-prepared and most inarticulate candidate ever put forth by a major party. Yet all the talk remains on how Gore "didn't connect well".

If people are deciding their votes because Gore sighed too much, walked like a robot, or doesn't seem like a cool guy to have a beer with, they need to have their voter registration cards revoked ;)

Really. I was cringing with embarrassment for bush during his debates with Kerry. I mean, I hate that guy, and I was still embarrassed for him. It was the humanity of it all.

And the dopes put him back in office. Kerry didn't come off good? Give me a break. Grind would have looked good up there next to bush, and think about that for a minute, ok?

Cancel7
07-26-2006, 05:14 AM
Concur.

I think Gore wants to work first and foremost on issues he's passionate about: alternative energy, technology. and global warming. As a private citizen he can dedicate himself to a few issues he really cares about.

I think he wants it, and in a normal year, I'd be willing to put money down saying he runs.

But...you'd truly have to be crazy to want to take over after this maniac leaves. Any idea what the next guy is going to have to deal with???? It's actually insurmountable. So the question becomes, is Gore nuts? And that I don't know.

Cancel7
07-26-2006, 05:17 AM
It all hinges on what we're calling "elitist" now doesn't it. My general observation is that conservatives are more likely to call an educated person, especially an academic, "elitist" whereas liberals are more inclined to so label someone who believes in the perogatives of wealth.

;)

Personally, I call Bush an elitist, not because of his birth and wealth, but because of his beliefs. Of course, it's likely that his beliefs result from his birth and wealth, but that's another question.

Ornot! Who's your daddy? Is that what you're going for there?

Who's your daddy?! How un-Ornot! lol

tianabautre
07-26-2006, 05:38 AM
Really. I was cringing with embarrassment for bush during his debates with Kerry. I mean, I hate that guy, and I was still embarrassed for him. It was the humanity of it all.

And the dopes put him back in office. Kerry didn't come off good? Give me a break. Grind would have looked good up there next to bush, and think about that for a minute, ok?

When I was overseas and heard him campaigning in 2000 I cringed with embarrasment. By 2004, I'd distanced myself so much from him and his administration, I had no feeling of empathy for the chimp.

Immanuel
07-26-2006, 06:03 AM
Kerry comes from a rich Boston family. They are related to the Forbes pubilshing family. How do you think he got to be a congressman?

That is easy. Care thinks he is just a good guy.

Immie

maineman
07-26-2006, 06:28 AM
Kerry comes from a rich Boston family. They are related to the Forbes pubilshing family. How do you think he got to be a congressman?

will you retract that lie?

Immanuel
07-26-2006, 06:34 AM
will you retract that lie?

What makes you say it was a lie? People do make mistakes, Maine. That simply could have been a mistake. Couldn't it have been?

Liberals! Always calling people who make mistakes liars. Sheesh!!

:)

Immie

maineman
07-26-2006, 06:41 AM
excuse me.... perhaps he could retract that obviously incorrect statement.

It would be like me saying that Bill Clinton was related to Thomas Jefferson with no other reason to make such a claim other than the fact that his middle name is "Jefferson".

Perhaps calling Jarod a liar is too harsh.... I can back that down to moronic idiot....how's that work for you?

Immanuel
07-26-2006, 06:54 AM
excuse me.... perhaps he could retract that obviously incorrect statement.

It would be like me saying that Bill Clinton was related to Thomas Jefferson with no other reason to make such a claim other than the fact that his middle name is "Jefferson".

Perhaps calling Jarod a liar is too harsh.... I can back that down to moronic idiot....how's that work for you?

I would accept the retraction of the incorrect statement. Calling him a moronic idiot for making a mistake makes you sound like other liberals who believe they don't make them. You're not like those others and that is a good thing.

Immie

PS that is not to say that all liberals are that way. I'm talking about a few who I know.

maineman
07-26-2006, 07:02 AM
I just get so tired of Bush apologists and Kerry bashers.... and Gore bashers, for that matter.... this pissant president has led us to the brink of HELL and those on the right - with the noteable exception of YOU,Immie - don't seem to give a shit.

Jarod
07-26-2006, 07:07 AM
I just get so tired of Bush apologists and Kerry bashers.... and Gore bashers, for that matter.... this pissant president has led us to the brink of HELL and those on the right - with the noteable exception of YOU,Immie - don't seem to give a shit.


If you will look, you will see, I was saying Kerry was a much better choice than Bush, even though he is an elitest.

Immanuel
07-26-2006, 07:10 AM
I just get so tired of Bush apologists and Kerry bashers.... and Gore bashers, for that matter.... this pissant president has led us to the brink of HELL and those on the right - with the noteable exception of YOU,Immie - don't seem to give a shit.

I don't think I am that much of an exception. I think there are millions of Americans that feel the way I do. I just happen to be here and they aren't. Here there are even some other Gore Basher/Bush Supporters on our (Sorry SR not trying to claim ownership just a figure of speech) sites that are no longer supporting Bush and in fact many who are keeping their mouths shut about Gore as well.

Immie

maineman
07-26-2006, 07:35 AM
If you will look, you will see, I was saying Kerry was a much better choice than Bush, even though he is an elitest.

I see you claiming that he is related to the Forbes Publishing family....which is untrue

Jarod
07-26-2006, 08:32 AM
I see you claiming that he is related to the Forbes Publishing family....which is untrue


Ive seen that in print several times. Maybe I am wrong. I voted for him regardless.

maineman
07-26-2006, 08:54 AM
good for you

Care4all
07-26-2006, 09:09 AM
will you retract that lie?

Kerry is related to the FORBES FAMILY of Boston, but NOT the Forbes Publishing Family of scotland.

I too, thought they were one and the same.... until I just went in to wikipedia to look up both Forbes Family geneology.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Forbes_family

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes_family_(publishers)

It's an HONEST mistake Maineman, not a lie of any sort, but a misconception.

Now that I know the difference, I will never confuse the two again, I promise! ;)

care

Cypress
07-26-2006, 09:11 AM
Kerry is related to the FORBES FAMILY of Boston, but NOT the Forbes Publishing Family of scotland.

I too, thought they were one and the same.... until I just went in to wikipedia to look up both Forbes Family geneology.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Forbes_family

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes_family_(publishers)

It's an HONEST mistake Maineman, not a lie of any sort, but a misconception.

Now that I know the difference, I will never confuse the two again, I promise! ;)

care

Kerry is related to the FORBES FAMILY of Boston, but NOT the Forbes Publishing Family of scotland.

That's what I said yesterday.

Jarod
07-26-2006, 09:12 AM
Maineman, whats up with the anger.. A mistake is not a lie.

Damocles
07-26-2006, 09:13 AM
*sigh* Either way the guy had connections others didn't. Anybody who was on the Kennedy Yacht cannot claim they don't have those connections...

Care4all
07-26-2006, 09:15 AM
Kerry is related to the FORBES FAMILY of Boston, but NOT the Forbes Publishing Family of scotland.

That's what I said yesterday.
OH! missed it! sorry....I still thought it was the SAME family, until I just looked it up because I noticed maineman making a comment to Jarrod about the "lie", that this was not true....

care

maineman
07-26-2006, 09:15 AM
Maineman, whats up with the anger.. A mistake is not a lie.

I am not angry Jarod...I am glad that you voted for Kerry.

Cypress
07-26-2006, 09:17 AM
Bottom line:

Kerry's family was upper middle class - his dad was a mid-level government beauracrat. They weren't Thurston Howell, III millionaires. Kerry got an ivy league education, and he speaks and talks like he did. Good on him. That's an expensive education that shouldn't be wasted.

Bush did come from a legitimately blue blood and fantastically wealthy family....in spite of dressing up like a cowboy, and talking like a rube.

Cypress
07-26-2006, 09:21 AM
*sigh* Either way the guy had connections others didn't. Anybody who was on the Kennedy Yacht cannot claim they don't have those connections...

This is true. Kerry's dad was a Foreign service officer in the Eisenhower and Kennedy adminstrations.

In spite of not being a wealthy man, he probably knew people in the upper echelons of both the eisenhower and kennedy adminstrations. It was the nature of his job.

Care4all
07-26-2006, 09:24 AM
*sigh* Either way the guy had connections others didn't. Anybody who was on the Kennedy Yacht cannot claim they don't have those connections...

He had been introduced by a friend to a Kennedy family member and was on a date with her....

Kennedy was a Harvard man and made a comment to Kerry, to be at ease and not to worry that he was a "lesser", Yale man.....or something humorous like that.... there were 6 to 8 others on the boat and that was basically the extent of their lengthy relationship....

Kerry's family was upper middle class.....a GREAT Aunt paid for his education, not even an Aunt, but at a farther distance in relations, a Great Aunt.

Becuase of her, he had the opportunity to be well educated and to run in higher circles through aquaintances I would suppose....

He worked through all years of college for his own spending money and perhaps for books.

He was fortunate enough to know the lifestyle of the middle class and the lifestyle of the rich and famous through distant family members....

Damocles
07-26-2006, 09:26 AM
He had been introduced by a friend to a Kennedy family member and was on a date with her....

Kennedy was a Harvard man and made a comment to Kerry, to be at ease and not to worry that he was a "lesser", Yale man.....or something humorous like that.... there were 6 to 8 others on the boat and that was basically the extent of their lengthy relationship....

Kerry's family was upper middle class.....a GREAT Aunt paid for his education, not even an Aunt, but at a farther distance in relations, a Great Aunt.

Becuase of her, he had the opportunity to be well educated and to run in higher circles through aquaintances I would suppose....

He worked through all years of college for his own spending money and perhaps for books.

He was fortunate enough to know the lifestyle of the middle class and the lifestyle of the rich and famous through distant family members....

I understand the myth attached there Care.. However I also understand the reality. He ran in circles that I do not... This is a man who had the right connections to get where he aimed. Why do people think that it is an attack when people say that?

Damocles
07-26-2006, 09:28 AM
Look. I don't think being rich is a crime at all. So the whole Bush was RICH thing bothers me not at all. I don't think it is a crime for your father to work for the Kennedys and to have some access that others do not.. I can't see why this is bad. The man had connections. So do many others out there.

Care4all
07-26-2006, 09:32 AM
I understand the myth attached there Care.. However I also understand the reality. He ran in circles that I do not... This is a man who had the right connections to get where he aimed. Why do people think that it is an attack when people say that?


maybe....because of why you felt the need to show "your card" by calling what I said a "myth"....? Your mind is made up, regardless, right, and what I said was a "myth"???


lol ;)

care

Cypress
07-26-2006, 09:33 AM
Did kerry grow up, upper middle class, and have advantages that many others did not? Yes.

Compared to bush, did Kerry grow up in a blue blood, elistist family? No.

That's the myth though. That bush is some kind of plain-spoken, down-home good old boy. And that kerry is a blue blood, thurston howell the third elitists.

The only difference I can see, is that Kerry took advantage of his ivy league education, and speaks and talks like he was educated in the ivy league. Bush? Not so much.

Jarod
07-26-2006, 09:34 AM
I am not angry Jarod...I am glad that you voted for Kerry.



I make mistakes, but Im not a total idiot.

Damocles
07-26-2006, 09:34 AM
maybe....because of why you felt the need to show "your card" by calling what I said a "myth"....? Your mind is made up, regardless, right, and what I said was a "myth"???


lol ;)

care

The "myth" I talk about is the "he was introduced" it is an attempt to get rid of the fact that he wouldn't even be in those circles to be introduced if it wasn't for the family connections... It is an attempt to deny the "connections" and make it some innocent little foray into dating... Thus "myth" rather than reality. The reality is, he wouldn't have met this person without running in the right circles, to say otherwise it to employ denial.

Care4all
07-26-2006, 09:35 AM
Besides the lack of ability to get enough votes, or (maybe he did ;) ), is what I am upset with Kerry on....

I pretty much agree with all of his congressional votes and his reason's behind them....

just so you know where I am coming from..... hahahaha!

:D

care

P.S. And I am proud that he is my senator... :P:P:P

Jarod
07-26-2006, 09:36 AM
Look. I don't think being rich is a crime at all. So the whole Bush was RICH thing bothers me not at all. I don't think it is a crime for your father to work for the Kennedys and to have some access that others do not.. I can't see why this is bad. The man had connections. So do many others out there.


I agree being rich is NOT a crime, still its important to see that in America, "the land of oppertunity", a very very small percentage of those who are not born rich become rich or as powerfull as Bush or Kerry.

That being said, if being rich were a crime, Kerry would be serving 15 to 20 while Bush would have gotten a life sentence at birth.

Care4all
07-26-2006, 09:39 AM
The "myth" I talk about is the "he was introduced" it is an attempt to get rid of the fact that he wouldn't even be in those circles to be introduced if it wasn't for the family connections... It is an attempt to deny the "connections" and make it some innocent little foray into dating... Thus "myth" rather than reality. The reality is, he wouldn't have met this person without running in the right circles, to say otherwise it to employ denial.


True...IF you look at the fact that he was attending Yale because of a great aunt's money...which his where he befriended a guy that knew a kennedy girl that he wanted to set Kerry up with....who was also one of the passengers on the "salil boat" ride with John Kennedy steering it...

But to IMPLY that he met John Kennedy because of his father's or direct family is outright false.

care

Damocles
07-26-2006, 09:40 AM
I agree being rich is NOT a crime, still its important to see that in America, "the land of oppertunity", a very very small percentage of those who are not born rich become rich or as powerfull as Bush or Kerry.

That being said, if being rich were a crime, Kerry would be serving 15 to 20 while Bush would have gotten a life sentence at birth.

Nah, Kerry would have gotten the Death Penalty when he married Billions.... LOL. Denying that he is one of the richest ever to run for President is simply denial. "It's all his wife's money!" ignores the fact that he has access to the benefits of that money too.

Immanuel
07-26-2006, 09:43 AM
Maineman, whats up with the anger.. A mistake is not a lie.

That's what I said!

Immie

Damocles
07-26-2006, 09:43 AM
True...IF you look at the fact that he was attending Yale because of a great aunt's money...which his where he befriended a guy that knew a kennedy girl that he wanted to set Kerry up with....who was also one of the passengers on the "salil boat" ride with John Kennedy steering it...

But to IMPLY that he met John Kennedy because of his father's or direct family is outright false.

care

Like I said, it is part of the myth. He "befriended" the guy because he was introduced through other family connections. You keep trying to weasel out of the fact that, even at Yale, they likely wouldn't have met without those connections. Many people go to Yale without meeting such great connections...

It's all good to let the family myth-writers go and rewrite the connections out of it all. It isn't so good to ignore them because you want to admire him so bad and you think connections are somehow "evil". I'm not the one that looks poorly on people because they have connections... It seems that it is somebody else that feels the need to write the connections out of the story.

Jarod
07-26-2006, 09:43 AM
Nah, Kerry would have gotten the Death Penalty when he married Billions.... LOL. Denying that he is one of the richest ever to run for President is simply denial. "It's all his wife's money!" ignores the fact that he has access to the benefits of that money too.


I dont think the Heinz have any more money than the Bushes... But I dont know for sure.

Damocles
07-26-2006, 09:47 AM
I dont think the Heinz have any more money than the Bushes... But I dont know for sure.

Oh, they do. Bush's family is in the hundreds of millions.. Heinz is in the Billions... Also the direct connect helps... ;)

Care4all
07-26-2006, 09:57 AM
Like I said, it is part of the myth. He "befriended" the guy because he was introduced through other family connections. You keep trying to weasel out of the fact that, even at Yale, they likely wouldn't have met without those connections. Many people go to Yale without meeting such great connections...

It's all good to let the family myth-writers go and rewrite the connections out of it all. It isn't so good to ignore them because you want to admire him so bad and you think connections are somehow "evil". I'm not the one that looks poorly on people because they have connections... It seems that it is somebody else that feels the need to write the connections out of the story.


noooo, I thought he befriended the guy at his college, he was a college buddy of his, not at a family function through connections of his father or family?

Damocles
07-26-2006, 10:01 AM
noooo, I thought he befriended the guy at his college, he was a college buddy of his, not at a family function through connections of his father of family?

Right, the "myth" that I was talking about.

Reality probably went more along these lines. Fathers got to talking about who was going there...

Father 1: My boy is going to Yale...

Father 2: So is mine! We should make sure they meet!

Father 1: I'll talk to my boy...

Father 2: So will I! Now let's go have a drink!

(Or something less direct but of the same meaning) ;)

It's really okay there Care, if you want to believe the myth you can. It is only a coincidence that Kerry's father worked for Kennedy, knew many people that knew him, and his son met a Kennedy friend at Yale. If that's what you want to believe then you can. I prefer to look at reality a little differently, without the family myth-writer deleting the connections portion of the story...

Care4all
07-26-2006, 10:03 AM
I dont think the Heinz have any more money than the Bushes... But I dont know for sure.

John Kerry DOES NOT have access to ANY of the Heinz family money...In fact, when he needed to use his own money for his election, when it was in trouble, he had to take a home equity loan on the house that he owned with Teresa and could only borrow on 1/2 the value of it because Terresa owned the other half....

He had no BANK ACCOUNT filled with wealth to use....or money from joint accounts with Terresa to use....

:confused:

Damocles
07-26-2006, 10:06 AM
John Kerry DOES NOT have access to ANY of the Heinz family money...In fact, when he needed to use his own money for his election, when it was in trouble, he had to take a home equity loan on the house that he owned with Teresa and could only borrow on 1/2 the value of it because Terresa owned the other half....

He had no BANK ACCOUNT filled with wealth to use....or money from joint accounts with Terresa to use....

:confused:

He didn't have access to the money for the campaign. That makes sense. But to say he has no access whatsoever to any of the benefits of that money denies that he lives with, and is married to, a Billionaire...

Care4all
07-26-2006, 01:45 PM
He didn't have access to the money for the campaign. That makes sense. But to say he has no access whatsoever to any of the benefits of that money denies that he lives with, and is married to, a Billionaire...

Oh, he most certainly has access to the priveledges of the wealthiest, being married to her....

as she had access to the wealthiest when she married in to the Heinz Family...

Even Barbara Pierce Bush comes from the "elite" and Bush 1 more than likely met HER because of his family's and her family's elite connections....

klaatu
07-26-2006, 05:02 PM
I believe Gore will run if there is a grass roots movement for him that grows quickly amongst Democrats. In other words a Draft Gore movement. I think his ego will demand it. Now dont get me wrong.., theres Nothing wrong with him thinking this way... I just believe he'll want assurance that he is the man.

Let me touch base on what Cypress said .... he thinks Gore wil want to devote all his time to his passion .. that being "Global Warming". I believe he can do more by becoming President.
Ive said it before and I'll say it again, a Gore/Warner ticket will be unbeatable.

Twin Towers from the South .. sound familiar?

BRUTALITOPS
07-26-2006, 09:30 PM
Really. I was cringing with embarrassment for bush during his debates with Kerry. I mean, I hate that guy, and I was still embarrassed for him. It was the humanity of it all.

And the dopes put him back in office. Kerry didn't come off good? Give me a break. Grind would have looked good up there next to bush, and think about that for a minute, ok?

entering this into the record as evidence of you bringing my name up without me addressing you, as I have asserted in the past.

Jarod
12-19-2008, 10:54 AM
Schiavo...

That one wasn't just State Rights, but also Individual Rights... It was repulsive.

Exactly!