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krisy
08-27-2006, 12:48 PM
Just wondering if anyone else here loves dogs? While some are attempting to paint me an evil heartless conservative,I am indeed an animal lover;)

I have two dogs,an Australian Shepard /Lab,and a German Shep/Golden Retriever mix. We also have three cats. Our Aussie mix pretty much looks all Aussie and herds everything. Our German mix is a big lovable teddy bear.

Damocles
08-27-2006, 12:49 PM
We have too many animals to name on the board. Two dogs and only one cat curently. Our last barn cat kicked it a while back...

krisy
08-27-2006, 01:05 PM
We have too many animals to name on the board. Two dogs and only one cat curently. Our last barn cat kicked it a while back...

Was that you that has the Whippets? Or used to have them?

Damocles
08-27-2006, 01:06 PM
One whippet, one schipperke.

Damocles
08-27-2006, 01:06 PM
Schipperkes are great at herding goats. You'd be surprised at one little dog's effect on them.

evince
08-27-2006, 06:56 PM
Just wondering if anyone else here loves dogs? While some are attempting to paint me an evil heartless conservative,I am indeed an animal lover;)

I have two dogs,an Australian Shepard /Lab,and a German Shep/Golden Retriever mix. We also have three cats. Our Aussie mix pretty much looks all Aussie and herds everything. Our German mix is a big lovable teddy bear.





I have an aussie ,they are brillient dogs, the smartest thing Ive ever seen.

Sir Evil
08-27-2006, 07:04 PM
I have an aussie ,they are brillient dogs, the smartest thing Ive ever seen.

Hmmm, must be a democrat eh?........:cof1:

They are beautiful dogs!

robdastud
08-28-2006, 05:08 AM
Damo and IHG advocate killing dogs.

krisy
08-28-2006, 05:58 AM
Damo and IHG advocate killing dogs.



:eek: :eek: :eek:

For what reason?!!!!!!!

krisy
08-28-2006, 06:02 AM
I have an aussie ,they are brillient dogs, the smartest thing Ive ever seen.

They are very smart indeed!!! He is like my personal guard dog. Follows me everywhere,including the bathroom...I can't even get the door closed and he is busting in-lol!!! He loves to herd the other dog around the back yard. A few people have told me he looks full blooded,but the people we got him from say there is some lab in there.

Our other dog loves to lick. He is also very loyal,following me. The kids ask me why do the dogs always follow YOU ,mom? I told them,well,they know who feeds em!!

Damocles
08-28-2006, 06:08 AM
Damo and IHG advocate killing dogs.
Wha??? What are you talking about?

robdastud
08-28-2006, 06:15 AM
:eek: :eek: :eek:

For what reason?!!!!!!!

Damo lives near Denver where they love to put down pitbulls, if they see a pitbull in Denver they kill it... Damo lives in CO, ask him what he's done to reverse this trend...

Damocles
08-28-2006, 06:18 AM
Damo lives near Denver where they love to put down pitbulls, if they see a pitbull in Denver they kill it... Damo lives in CO, ask him what he's done to reverse this trend...
I don't live in Denver, there is nothing I can do about it. Although our County has accepted many of the dogs to keep them from getting killed. What have you done to change the trend? Liberals in Denver want to kill your dog, not me.

krisy
08-28-2006, 06:24 AM
I don't live in Denver, there is nothing I can do about it. Although our County has accepted many of the dogs to keep them from getting killed. What have you done to change the trend? Liberals in Denver want to kill your dog, not me.

I knew you weren't like that,Damo. I think Pits are illegal to own in our county. I know a couple that are absolute sweethearts!! It's how you raise them.

robdastud
08-28-2006, 06:33 AM
damo knows im kidding.

Damocles
08-28-2006, 06:34 AM
damo knows im kidding.
Hence the "liberals want to kill your dog" thing...

:p

Damocles
08-28-2006, 06:36 AM
It has actually gotten worse. Aurora also has "near-banned" them. They force owners of the dogs to keep a huge amount of insurance to keep the dog and no new ones are allowed. We are pretty much surrounded by bans and our county is being overrun with the dogs because of it. We have had one running around terrorizing the animals in our "neighborhood".

maineman
08-28-2006, 07:16 AM
two "pound puppy/heinz 57" mutt dogs... four cats (used to be five, but just last month, we had to finally put down our 19 year old Maine Coon cat, Willie, who was,and will always be, the greatest cat to ever walk the face of the earth.)

robdastud
08-28-2006, 07:27 AM
cats suck

krisy
08-28-2006, 07:33 AM
two "pound puppy/heinz 57" mutt dogs... four cats (used to be five, but just last month, we had to finally put down our 19 year old Maine Coon cat, Willie, who was,and will always be, the greatest cat to ever walk the face of the earth.)

Sorry to hear about that,maineman. We have a 12 year old cat named Sox,and she is wonderful. Hell,I forget she is here half the time. She sleeps all day and gets up in the evening to ahng out and do that silly run arround the house for no reason thing-lol

uscitizen
08-28-2006, 07:43 AM
cats suck
LOL, do you advocate killing cats Rob ?

TheDanold
08-28-2006, 07:46 AM
2 cats, 1 dwarf hamster, 3 beta fish.
Wife wants to get kids a holland lop bunny, but so far I've managed to avoid that happening.

Oh and dwarf hamsters suck, I had great regular hampsters when I was a kid, but this hampster bites a lot.

Damocles
08-28-2006, 07:52 AM
Any animal that wants to escape as bad as a hampster does, deserves to be free. Don't buy any more of those...

TheDanold
08-28-2006, 07:54 AM
Any animal that wants to escape as bad as a hampster does, deserves to be free. Don't buy any more of those...
He wants to escape into a house with 2 cats? LOL

I grew up with 4 different hampsters and too many gerbils to remember, none of them bit like this one does.

uscitizen
08-28-2006, 07:55 AM
I have 4 black cats and 1 weiner dog. The cats were found in a shed on my place, apparently their momma was killed/died, and I took pity on them. these are the first cats I have ever had.
I had to have my old hound friend of 15 yrs put down earlier this year.

btw Rob I killed 2 dogs a few weeks ago, they had a calf of the neighbors down, he also had to kill the calf.

krisy
08-28-2006, 07:58 AM
2 cats, 1 dwarf hamster, 3 beta fish.
Wife wants to get kids a holland lop bunny, but so far I've managed to avoid that happening.

Oh and dwarf hamsters suck, I had great regular hampsters when I was a kid, but this hampster bites a lot.

Ahhhh,,the dreaded dwarf hamster. They are known to be mean. I have no clue why.
You would think their disposition would be the same.

robdastud
08-28-2006, 08:08 AM
LOL, do you advocate killing cats Rob ?

bill Frist does.

robdastud
08-28-2006, 08:10 AM
2 cats, 1 dwarf hamster, 3 beta fish.
Wife wants to get kids a holland lop bunny, but so far I've managed to avoid that happening.

Oh and dwarf hamsters suck, I had great regular hampsters when I was a kid, but this hampster bites a lot.

dano you hold it?? LOL... i heard rabbits bite bad too... i have no desire to have wild animals in my house any more.. i used to have turtles but they smelled way to bad... LOL you had to change their cage every few days or the house smelled like a swamp.

i sometimes think about getting fish though.

Damocles
08-28-2006, 08:12 AM
dano you hold it?? LOL... i heard rabbits bite bad too... i have no desire to have wild animals in my house any more.. i used to have turtles but they smelled way to bad... LOL you had to change their cage every few days or the house smelled like a swamp.

i sometimes think about getting fish though.
Fish are great. Calming and easy to care for. Unless you get like we did and get some serious saltwater reefs going...

evince
08-28-2006, 08:13 AM
had hamsters ,mice, fish , lizards and tons of very short lived crickets in my house at one time or another.

I have had a cat once and they are cool but I like dogs the best.

I like USC lost a dog this year (Hank) some of you already know all about Hank.

He was a greater swiss mountain dog and lab mix as far as we could tell.
80lbs of love and sillyness, Damn I love and miss that dog!

Still have my beautiful black and white Aussie Pepper, dumb name Smart dog.

evince
08-28-2006, 08:14 AM
Oh yeah I forgot the turtle

Thorn
08-28-2006, 02:41 PM
Two wonderful pups, both just over 1 year old. Little female Border Collie, black and white, the sweetest, smartest little doggie! Male black tri Australian Shepherd, also very sweet and smart but in a completely different way. Whereas the Border Collie reasons everything out, the Aussie is good at learning and following directions. We lost both our dogs (both Border Collies, 2 and 12 years old, respectively) last year within 2 months of each other, to different diseases. Nothing can ever replace them, but these new guys have made their own place in our home and our hearts.

I belong to the local obedience training club and will be starting beginner's agility with the border collie in October. Not for competition, but just to have some fun with my dog in a new way. Then I can train the Aussie at home. I also volunteer with the local Humane Society and do the vaccinations at the weekly clinic, and am the resident "artist", in which capacity I make all the logos.

Sir Evil
08-28-2006, 08:07 PM
Two wonderful pups, both just over 1 year old. Little female Border Collie, black and white, the sweetest, smartest little doggie!

Damn, must be a democrat!......:cof1:

krisy
08-28-2006, 08:09 PM
Two wonderful pups, both just over 1 year old. Little female Border Collie, black and white, the sweetest, smartest little doggie! Male black tri Australian Shepherd, also very sweet and smart but in a completely different way. Whereas the Border Collie reasons everything out, the Aussie is good at learning and following directions. We lost both our dogs (both Border Collies, 2 and 12 years old, respectively) last year within 2 months of each other, to different diseases. Nothing can ever replace them, but these new guys have made their own place in our home and our hearts.

I belong to the local obedience training club and will be starting beginner's agility with the border collie in October. Not for competition, but just to have some fun with my dog in a new way. Then I can train the Aussie at home. I also volunteer with the local Humane Society and do the vaccinations at the weekly clinic, and am the resident "artist", in which capacity I make all the logos.


Wow,that makes 3 or 4 people with Aussies...cool!

IHateGovernment
08-30-2006, 01:56 PM
When I saw this thread I knew Robs response would be oh so predictable.

Yes I advoate killing dogs, I also advocate shooting heroin, prostitution, not tipping your waittress, greeting people with the phrase "fuck you", cheating on your spouse, burning the flag, pissing on the bible, smashing your computer with a sledge hammer, masturbating to the golden girls, and eating poop.

I think you can see where I'm going with this.

evince
08-30-2006, 02:09 PM
border collies are the smartest dogs too, I think aussies must be related

IHateGovernment
08-30-2006, 02:26 PM
I have read that poodles are considered the smartest and that collies come in second. This of course is debatable as saying what kind of animal is smartest is difficult.

Sir Evil
08-30-2006, 02:26 PM
border collies are the smartest dogs too, I think aussies must be related

Damn democrats rule the canine world as well eh dish?.....:p

Thorn
08-30-2006, 02:36 PM
I have read that poodles are considered the smartest and that collies come in second. This of course is debatable as saying what kind of animal is smartest is difficult.

I believe that they're actually tied for first (Standard Poodles and Border Collies to put a finer point on it). Of course that definition is derived from the consideration of how well these dogs perform according to standards that humans set for them. There's always anecdotal evidence of individual dogs of several breeds demonstrating uncanny reasoning ability, but this is one characteristic that is actually in the description of the Border Collie.

I love most dogs; just enjoy the Border Collies the most because we seem to be temperamentally suited, I guess. :)

TRGLDTE
08-30-2006, 02:37 PM
Two wonderful pups, both just over 1 year old. Little female Border Collie, black and white, the sweetest, smartest little doggie! Male black tri Australian Shepherd, also very sweet and smart but in a completely different way. Whereas the Border Collie reasons everything out, the Aussie is good at learning and following directions. We lost both our dogs (both Border Collies, 2 and 12 years old, respectively) last year within 2 months of each other, to different diseases. Nothing can ever replace them, but these new guys have made their own place in our home and our hearts.

I belong to the local obedience training club and will be starting beginner's agility with the border collie in October. Not for competition, but just to have some fun with my dog in a new way. Then I can train the Aussie at home. I also volunteer with the local Humane Society and do the vaccinations at the weekly clinic, and am the resident "artist", in which capacity I make all the logos. Your dogs are probably smarter than the average welfare recipient.

TRGLDTE
08-30-2006, 02:41 PM
When I saw this thread I knew Robs response would be oh so predictable.

Yes I advoate killing dogs, I also advocate shooting heroin, prostitution, not tipping your waittress, greeting people with the phrase "fuck you", cheating on your spouse, burning the flag, pissing on the bible, smashing your computer with a sledge hammer, masturbating to the golden girls, and eating poop.

I think you can see where I'm going with this.

I don't advocate any of those (except maybe the golden girls thing...) but I support your right to.

P.S. Fuck you.

klaatu
08-30-2006, 02:41 PM
We have a great little Curly Haired Bichon Maltese .. not to be confused with the long haired Maltese or Bichon Frise which it looks like. Bichons are great dogs .... smart, loving and athletetic ..... and great with kids too. her name is Pebbles.

IHateGovernment
08-30-2006, 02:44 PM
P.S. Fuck you.

Why thank you and a merry fuck you to you as well

:)

klaatu
08-30-2006, 02:44 PM
When I saw this thread I knew Robs response would be oh so predictable.

Yes I advoate killing dogs, I also advocate shooting heroin, prostitution, not tipping your waittress, greeting people with the phrase "fuck you", cheating on your spouse, burning the flag, pissing on the bible, smashing your computer with a sledge hammer, masturbating to the golden girls, and eating poop.

I think you can see where I'm going with this.

While I agree to the rights of all the above except for the Killing of Dogs... I wouldnt go as far as being an advocate .. but this prompts me to ask the question ...how old are you?

uscitizen
08-30-2006, 03:02 PM
Amazing how someone can be againist killing dogs but for killing humans ?

TRGLDTE
08-30-2006, 03:05 PM
P.S. Fuck you.

Why thank you and a merry fuck you to you as well

:) You know I meant it in the nicest possible way. :)

TRGLDTE
08-30-2006, 03:07 PM
I like dogs, dogs are tasty. Puppy tacos....yummmmmy! Soft, tender, almost like veal.

klaatu
08-30-2006, 03:08 PM
Amazing how someone can be againist killing dogs but for killing humans ?

Who is for killing humans? I oppose abortion.

uscitizen
08-30-2006, 03:11 PM
If you support the war ? esp if you ever said about the islamic folks just kill em all and let god sort em out.
Me I will kill anything that needs killing, but don't like to do it...
I do however place human life above animal life.

Pro death penalty ?

klaatu
08-30-2006, 03:21 PM
If you support the war ? esp if you ever said about the islamic folks just kill em all and let god sort em out.
Me I will kill anything that needs killing, but don't like to do it...
I do however place human life above animal life.

Pro death penalty ?

I oppose the death penalty .... I place Human life above all animal life ... and it seems as if you are trying to pin me into a corner wher you see all conservatives ....
I think you better look at the liberal corner.. because thats where you will find the extreme thinking about animal rights.

As ar as the War.. which one are you talking about.. The War on Terror or the Iraqi War? I stated my view on Iraq .. you should know where I stand on that. War on Terror .. you dont think it is neccessary?

uscitizen
08-30-2006, 03:25 PM
Did you support Bush in 2004 Klaatu ?

uscitizen
08-30-2006, 03:26 PM
Actually I was not targeting you ont the supporting killing of humans but not dogs thing Klaatu.
Just a general question/observation.

klaatu
08-31-2006, 07:58 AM
Did you support Bush in 2004 Klaatu ?

Yes I did... and I have changed my mind about the War since then ... I do have a right to do that..dont I? And let me tell you something USC... voting for kerry was not a vote against the War.. no matter what that lying conniving piece of dog shit was saying .... Kerry belongs in the same scumbag hole as Bush ....

uscitizen
08-31-2006, 08:01 AM
Perhaps on Kerry, we will never know now will we.
And yes , you can change you mind even if it is a bit late. Glad you opened your eyes.

evince
08-31-2006, 08:01 AM
Oh give us evidence Kerry is a liar?

I can give you reams that Bush is

IHateGovernment
09-01-2006, 11:41 AM
While I agree to the rights of all the above except for the Killing of Dogs... I wouldnt go as far as being an advocate .. but this prompts me to ask the question ...how old are you?

My advocacy was sarcastic Klaatu. I agree to the right to do all of those things even if I disagree with them. Rob believes my support for the right to kill your own dog equals advoating killing your own dog. I created that list to lampoon such an assertion.

Klaatu let me ask you this. If you owned a pig, cow, goat or chicken you are permitted to kill it. Why not a dog?

I am 27 years old why?

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 11:46 AM
Right on IHate.
What is the difference between a pig and a dog ? Both are kept as pets.

OrnotBitwise
09-01-2006, 11:54 AM
Oh yeah I forgot the turtle
Everybody always forgets the turtles. That's why you can't keep 'em in some states anymore. ;)

Me, I'm a cat person. I've had many dogs, too, but I doubt I will again. In the past, I've had an Irish Wolfhound -- weird and wonderful dog that was -- a Queensland Blue Heeler and several Heinz 57 mutts. Gotta love a mutt.

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 11:59 AM
Salmonella was why turtles were pretty much banned.

Damocles
09-01-2006, 12:07 PM
Everybody always forgets the turtles. That's why you can't keep 'em in some states anymore. ;)

Me, I'm a cat person. I've had many dogs, too, but I doubt I will again. In the past, I've had an Irish Wolfhound -- weird and wonderful dog that was -- a Queensland Blue Heeler and several Heinz 57 mutts. Gotta love a mutt.

They make good soup.

bob
09-01-2006, 12:12 PM
Oh give us evidence Kerry is a liar?

I can give you reams that Bush is

"The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end of that war, and particularly in the last 4 years we know after Operation Desert Fox failed to force him to reaccept them, that he has continued to build those weapons. He has had a free hand for 4 years to reconstitute these weapons, allowing the world, during the interval, to lose the focus we had on weapons of mass destruction and the issue of proliferation." -- John Kerry, October 9, 2002

but that might not be a lie

krisy
09-01-2006, 12:25 PM
Salmonella was why turtles were pretty much banned.

In Ohio,pet stores are allowed to sell them only if they are 4 inches or more long. Those little tiny ones are illegal to sell,unless it's for educational purposes. Of course,there are ignorant morons at county fairs and such that sell them anyway. Box turtles are also not allowed to be sold anymore,about 5 or 6 years ago,they were getting ready to be put on the endangered species list.

toby
09-01-2006, 12:26 PM
There are plenty of poster who screw the pooch, I don't know if love was mentioned!

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 12:43 PM
"The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end of that war, and particularly in the last 4 years we know after Operation Desert Fox failed to force him to reaccept them, that he has continued to build those weapons. He has had a free hand for 4 years to reconstitute these weapons, allowing the world, during the interval, to lose the focus we had on weapons of mass destruction and the issue of proliferation." -- John Kerry, October 9, 2002

but that might not be a lie

Why wouldn't be a lie he is a politician and he spoke.......

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 12:44 PM
Turtles Crisy ? Liberal or con ones ?

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 12:45 PM
How did this turn into a lib vs con thread ?

Damocles
09-01-2006, 12:46 PM
It began that way.

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 12:49 PM
Back on dogs and such.
Whis are pigs and dogs different ? well in the way we treat them anyway.
Both can be and are pets.
It is said by experts that their intelligence is similiar.
I can kill and eat a pig. Tasty btw :)
I go to jail or somesuch if I even kill a dog without darned good reason. Ie protect property or lives.
I would probably be hung by my toenails for eating a dog. not that I would want to anyway though...

What is the difference ?

btw I have had several dogs in my life and loved them all like family members, but some people feel that way about pigs too.

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 12:51 PM
It began that way.
OHH guess I got lost while saving the world ... servers crashed :(

Damocles
09-01-2006, 12:52 PM
That does suck. I hate when that happens. But then everybody thinks you are God for awhile.... Oh and it didn't really. It's supposed to be about dogs.

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 12:56 PM
yes they get real upset about this cluster too. The biggest baddest machines Sun has built. Got it going before the nationwide conference call started though :)

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 12:57 PM
auto failover and all that swanky stuff too. sucker hung and I had to force it over manually.

IHateGovernment
09-01-2006, 12:58 PM
USC I agree with you 100%. Animal cruelty laws are covertly culturalist.

krisy
09-01-2006, 01:05 PM
. It's supposed to be about dogs.


Yes, and if you love them,not whether or not it should be legal to kill them (hint USC and IHG):cof1:

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 01:07 PM
Yep, I almost got whipped ontime by some Christian Greyhound rescue types. they were trying to get me to take some greyhounds to save their lives. I asked them why not ship them to africa or SE Asia to feed to starving children, darn if I did not think they were going to whip my butt.
BTW I thnk those rescuers are actually supporting the greyhound racing industry they claim to hate.

Damocles
09-01-2006, 01:13 PM
It's definitely a cultrural thing. In France you go to the butchers and look at the sign to find out if it is for horse or cow meat, here, not going to play....

In other nations dogs are food and are killed as easily as chickens, here, not going to play...

We are picky about which animals we want to specify have these special protections.

bob
09-01-2006, 01:14 PM
P eople
E ating
T asty
A nimals

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 01:18 PM
Yep, I belong to that org Bob.
Gonna eat some delicious seared decaying bovine flesh this weekend too.

OrnotBitwise
09-01-2006, 01:19 PM
USC I agree with you 100%. Animal cruelty laws are covertly culturalist.
In practice I'm sure they are. OTOH, all laws are "culturalist" in that all laws are expressions of cultural norms.

If anti-cruelty laws were based on circumstance rather than species, would that do it for you? One can differentiate between livestock and pets rather easily without reference to species. Yes, there are grey areas -- guard dogs and barn cats, for example, or livestock raised for FFA or 4H projects. Still, drawing an arbitrary line and then letting a court decide the fuzzy cases is a tried and true principle of our legal system.

We may use members of other species for a variety of purposes. That does NOT give us the right to inflict unnecessary cruelty, however.

bob
09-01-2006, 01:21 PM
P eople
E ating
T asty
A nimals


Yep, I belong to that org Bob.
Gonna eat some delicious seared decaying bovine flesh this weekend too.

mmmm prime rib ahhhhhhhhh

krisy
09-01-2006, 01:25 PM
Yep, I almost got whipped ontime by some Christian Greyhound rescue types. they were trying to get me to take some greyhounds to save their lives. I asked them why not ship them to africa or SE Asia to feed to starving children, darn if I did not think they were going to whip my butt.
BTW I thnk those rescuers are actually supporting the greyhound racing industry they claim to hate.

WHy do you say that? The owner of the place I work at rescued 2 greyhounds years ago. Sadly tho,she has had to put them both down in the last 2 months because of cancer and other health problems:mad:

Most of the ones I have talked to seem very sincere in their hopes to save the breed.

IHateGovernment
09-01-2006, 01:28 PM
In practice I'm sure they are. OTOH, all laws are "culturalist" in that all laws are expressions of cultural norms.

If anti-cruelty laws were based on circumstance rather than species, would that do it for you? One can differentiate between livestock and pets rather easily without reference to species. Yes, there are grey areas -- guard dogs and barn cats, for example, or livestock raised for FFA or 4H projects. Still, drawing an arbitrary line and then letting a court decide the fuzzy cases is a tried and true principle of our legal system.

We may use members of other species for a variety of purposes. That does NOT give us the right to inflict unnecessary cruelty, however.
__________________

Why should the fact that it is livestock vs. a pet have any bearing on what an owner can do with an animal. Both are considered property of an owner. Livestock and pet can be interchangeable. A pig can be taked from the sty and made a pet. Why cannot a kitten be taken from the litter and made livestock.

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 01:29 PM
In practice I'm sure they are. OTOH, all laws are "culturalist" in that all laws are expressions of cultural norms.

If anti-cruelty laws were based on circumstance rather than species, would that do it for you? One can differentiate between livestock and pets rather easily without reference to species. Yes, there are grey areas -- guard dogs and barn cats, for example, or livestock raised for FFA or 4H projects. Still, drawing an arbitrary line and then letting a court decide the fuzzy cases is a tried and true principle of our legal system.

We may use members of other species for a variety of purposes. That does NOT give us the right to inflict unnecessary cruelty, however.

I agree on the cruelty issue. I do not support being cruel to any creature 2 legged or 4 legged or even no legged.
Technically / legally the only way I can have a poor suffering dog put to rest here is by lethal injection at a vet. I wonder if the vets lobbyied for that law ?
A quick bullet to the head works fine, which I have done, why prolong and increase my friends suffering by taking him to a vet which terrified him and waiting in the office, etc... My friend, my duty. Hard duty though........
At least he died as peaceful and happy as was possible.
The vet is the easy way out for the person, not necessarially for the pet though.

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 01:30 PM
mmmm prime rib ahhhhhhhhh
Nope got some big nice T bones......

krisy
09-01-2006, 01:31 PM
P eople
E ating
T asty
A nimals



Even tho I am an animal lover,I cannot stand Peta. They are in it for money and not for the animals IMO. Bunch of extremists. Anyone that shows up at a fishing competetion in a giant fish costume is nuts. Anyone who says milk is bad for kids(something to do with the cow) is nuts,. You see the pattern

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 01:32 PM
imho krisy extremeists of pretty much all flavors are wrong and nuts.

krisy
09-01-2006, 01:34 PM
I agree on the cruelty issue. I do not support being cruel to any creature 2 legged or 4 legged or even no legged.
Technically / legally the only way I can have a poor suffering dog put to rest here is by lethal injection at a vet. I wonder if the vets lobbyied for that law ?
A quick bullet to the head works fine, which I have done, why prolong and increase my friends suffering by taking him to a vet which terrified him and waiting in the office, etc... My friend, my duty. Hard duty though........
At least he died as peaceful and happy as was possible.
The vet is the easy way out for the person, not necessarially for the pet though.

Do you honestly believe that dog was better off with a bullet being put threw his brain?!!!! At the vet his last moments can be calm and tranquil with you holding him. Painless too.

bob
09-01-2006, 01:36 PM
Nope got some big nice T bones......

that sounds good too

krisy
09-01-2006, 01:36 PM
imho krisy extremeists of pretty much all flavors are wrong and nuts.

All things in moderation keeps a person happy.

OrnotBitwise
09-01-2006, 01:37 PM
In practice I'm sure they are. OTOH, all laws are "culturalist" in that all laws are expressions of cultural norms.

If anti-cruelty laws were based on circumstance rather than species, would that do it for you? One can differentiate between livestock and pets rather easily without reference to species. Yes, there are grey areas -- guard dogs and barn cats, for example, or livestock raised for FFA or 4H projects. Still, drawing an arbitrary line and then letting a court decide the fuzzy cases is a tried and true principle of our legal system.

We may use members of other species for a variety of purposes. That does NOT give us the right to inflict unnecessary cruelty, however.
__________________

Why should the fact that it is livestock vs. a pet have any bearing on what an owner can do with an animal. Both are considered property of an owner. Livestock and pet can be interchangeable. A pig can be taked from the sty and made a pet. Why cannot a kitten be taken from the litter and made livestock.
Who says that laws regarding the treatment of other species have to be reduced to a simple question of property rights? Most people, I submit, do not believe that animals can be treated entirely and simply as property. The owner has some rights of property over a non-human animal but not the same rights of property that he would have over a table, or even real estate.

I think that many people -- most people -- would accept the proposition that when you take a pet into your home, it brings with it a burden of implied responsibilities for the animal's welfare. I submit further that there's nothing inherently wrong with trying to codify and explicate some of those nebulous implicit responsibilities.

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 01:42 PM
Do you honestly believe that dog was better off with a bullet being put threw his brain?!!!! At the vet his last moments can be calm and tranquil with you holding him. Painless too.
Yes I know, he was terrified of any vet and a properly placed .45 slug leaves no time for pain. Ever been shot ? I have and for a bit you feel no pain.

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 01:45 PM
BTW Crisy I had one put to sleep as you said holding her ( the wife insisted on the vet) and I am not so sure there was no pain. they die of a heart attack and they are painful. The poor dog jerked a bit and whimpered.
I know the kill your own method is not for most people, but should it be illegal ?

OrnotBitwise
09-01-2006, 01:49 PM
All things in moderation keeps a person happy.
I disagree with you both. One of the things that's gone wrong with our society today is that "extremsim" has gotten a bad name. There has to be room for real dialogue in this nation and where you have real dialogue you will *always* have extremists.

I'm an extremist and proud of it. This nation was founded by extremists. Iindeed, many nations were. We need more extremists and we need more avenues for those with extreme views to be heard.

IHateGovernment
09-01-2006, 01:55 PM
I think that many people -- most people -- would accept the proposition that when you take a pet into your home, it brings with it a burden of implied responsibilities for the animal's welfare. I submit further that there's nothing inherently wrong with trying to codify and explicate some of those nebulous implicit responsibilities.

What is bringing an animal into my home mean. If I have a pig sty in the confines of my house are they pets? If I do the same thing with dogs or hermit crabs are they pets.

I have a big problem with the fact that many of our laws as to what are protected animals with rights and what are animals that don't do not lie in anything outsides of conforming to a eurocentric view of the human animal relationship.

You are on record as supporting multiculturalism join me in condemning such cultural hegemony.

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 01:56 PM
You an extremeist Ornot ? I think not. UIs there something you have not told us ;)

IHateGovernment
09-01-2006, 01:57 PM
I'm with you Ornot I am an extremist as well... at least to others. I don't care for the term though. I simply say I am principles. To call something extremism is to give another idea more credibility by saying it is normative.

OrnotBitwise
09-01-2006, 02:09 PM
I think that many people -- most people -- would accept the proposition that when you take a pet into your home, it brings with it a burden of implied responsibilities for the animal's welfare. I submit further that there's nothing inherently wrong with trying to codify and explicate some of those nebulous implicit responsibilities.

What is bringing an animal into my home mean. If I have a pig sty in the confines of my house are they pets? If I do the same thing with dogs or hermit crabs are they pets.

I have a big problem with the fact that many of our laws as to what are protected animals with rights and what are animals that don't do not lie in anything outsides of conforming to a eurocentric view of the human animal relationship.

You are on record as supporting multiculturalism join me in condemning such cultural hegemony.
That's exactly why I advocate differentiating responsibilities based on roles and circumstances rather than species. A pig can be a pet or a pig can be a meat animal. Different rules apply in the two cases. Different rules *can* be applied, more correctly. I don't really know if they should or not. I'm arguing simply that there's nothing wrong with the precept.

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 02:10 PM
Well Ihate and ornot, perhaps others view me as an extremeist as well. I dunno I am just me.

OrnotBitwise
09-01-2006, 02:13 PM
You an extremeist Ornot ? I think not. UIs there something you have not told us ;)
I am very much an extremist, by American standards, on some issues at least. That is to say I hold opinions that all but a small minority of Americans would characterize as "too extreme" or "way out there" or something. Especially on the economic and social libertarian dimensions. I am not, however, an inflexible ideologue. That's something else again.

My point was that, in the modern vernacular, we've conflated "extremist" with "ideologue." That's a bad mistake. It tends to make anyone with unusual or creative ideas suspect.

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 02:17 PM
But do you let those views on a few things make you do stupid stuff like dressing up like a fish. Wimmen and booze are the only things that have seemed to cause me to do that kind of stupid stuff.
Perhaps I am confusing zealot and extremsit ? Not sure.

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 02:19 PM
I am very much an extremist, by American standards, on some issues at least. That is to say I hold opinions that all but a small minority of Americans would characterize as "too extreme" or "way out there" or something. Especially on the economic and social libertarian dimensions. I am not, however, an inflexible ideologue. That's something else again.

My point was that, in the modern vernacular, we've conflated "extremist" with "ideologue." That's a bad mistake. It tends to make anyone with unusual or creative ideas suspect.
Oh I think I get you now. We have had years of progeramming that difference is wrong. Ie Tree huggers, liberals, econuts, etc....
those morons spreading that do not realize that our diversity is one factor that made this country great.

IHateGovernment
09-01-2006, 02:20 PM
That's exactly why I advocate differentiating responsibilities based on roles and circumstances rather than species. A pig can be a pet or a pig can be a meat animal. Different rules apply in the two cases. Different rules *can* be applied, more correctly. I don't really know if they should or not. I'm arguing simply that there's nothing wrong with the precept.

How can such a thing be done though? Pet registration or something?

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 02:24 PM
That's exactly why I advocate differentiating responsibilities based on roles and circumstances rather than species. A pig can be a pet or a pig can be a meat animal. Different rules apply in the two cases. Different rules *can* be applied, more correctly. I don't really know if they should or not. I'm arguing simply that there's nothing wrong with the precept.

How can such a thing be done though? Pet registration or something?

Naan no more beaucracy and control, we just need to be smart enough to work it out each for ourselves, but that it seems will never happen. so they try to squeeze us all in one big mold.

OrnotBitwise
09-01-2006, 02:24 PM
But do you let those views on a few things make you do stupid stuff like dressing up like a fish. Wimmen and booze are the only things that have seemed to cause me to do that kind of stupid stuff.
Perhaps I am confusing zealot and extremsit ? Not sure.
I think you are, yes.

Also, young people are going to do silly stuff when they get political. I certainly did. That's just the way the (human) beast is. I never dressed up as a fish myself but I certainly knew people who would have had the idea occurred to them.

Human beings are diverse. Any time you have a large, grass roots political movement, there will be nut jobs out on the fringes of it. Frequently the nut jobs are the cutting edge: the people who're taking the hits so the more moderate -- read: timid -- majority of the movement don't have to.

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 02:26 PM
Who is an extremist depends on where you are too. I am viewed as a bit too civilized by those I grew up around, and not civilized enough by others in other areas.

IHateGovernment
09-01-2006, 02:29 PM
Naan no more beaucracy and control, we just need to be smart enough to work it out each for ourselves, but that it seems will never happen. so they try to squeeze us all in one big mold.

Seriously this shouldn't be the government's business. It doesn't concern anyone else.

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 02:29 PM
I think you are, yes.

Also, young people are going to do silly stuff when they get political. I certainly did. That's just the way the (human) beast is. I never dressed up as a fish myself but I certainly knew people who would have had the idea occurred to them.

Human beings are diverse. Any time you have a large, grass roots political movement, there will be nut jobs out on the fringes of it. Frequently the nut jobs are the cutting edge: the people who're taking the hits so the more moderate -- read: timid -- majority of the movement don't have to.

Ornot you are chatting with an exception here. I don't run with packs. I am pretty much a lone wolf and always have been since my earliest memories. I have good friends and all that , but groups do not activate me in any way. Like a pep rally in High school, I left with the same amount of zeal for the team to win as when I went in.

IHateGovernment
09-01-2006, 02:31 PM
Pep rallies are stupid. I also don't care much for group activity.

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 02:34 PM
Yep I hate. The everyones doing it never had an impact on me. I guess no lemming genetics in me :)

Damocles
09-01-2006, 02:34 PM
I call them "clapterfests"... You have them at work sometimes. They are called the "all hands meeting". You all sit around watching people get awards for doing their job adequately and clap at the right time, smiling and waiting for the dounuts afterward...

IHateGovernment
09-01-2006, 02:37 PM
That sucks. That sounds like something out of Office Space.

Now now Milton don't be grouchy...just clap.

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 02:38 PM
LOL, the doughnuts are ok. And I have no problem recognizing someones accompolishments. But I do nothing just because everyone else is doing it. well mostly :) I do wear clothes, etc ;) but they are my choice, not what some gay fashion desinger decides I should wear.

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 02:39 PM
That sucks. That sounds like something out of Office Space.

Now now Milton don't be grouchy...just clap.

Ahh I have spent more than my share of time in dilbertville :) But they paid me to do that , it was part of the job .

OrnotBitwise
09-01-2006, 03:16 PM
Pep rallies are stupid. I also don't care much for group activity.
Politics is group activity, by definition.

IHateGovernment
09-01-2006, 03:18 PM
I know that Ornot. I suppose I should have clarified by saying most group activity. I don't dislike all group activity especially if it is fun. However the group nature of most things spoils it.

OrnotBitwise
09-01-2006, 03:19 PM
Seriously this shouldn't be the government's business. It doesn't concern anyone else.
That's only true if you believe there's a hard, well defined line between sentient beings and "lower" animals. I don't nor, I think, do most people anymore.

In other words, the "one else" is the animal, of course.

IHateGovernment
09-01-2006, 03:25 PM
That's only true if you believe there's a hard, well defined line between sentient beings and "lower" animals. I don't nor, I think, do most people anymore.

In other words, the "one else" is the animal, of course.

You want to talk about being an extremist Ornot. I may have the most extreme views on bio ethics on this board or any other one I have visited even moreso than you do.

It is from this realization that I know I could never consistently apply any of my extreme views in regard to the law.

The truth is that the killing of any living organsim for any purpose other than to protect yourself is unethical. But I have yet to be able to live up to such a high standard. If I the extremist cannot even live up to my own extreme views how can I demand the same for others.

Therefore it is necessary that we be respective of the wide range of views in regard to this issue and not try to force any other human being to adopt your or my or anyone elses view.

OrnotBitwise
09-01-2006, 03:35 PM
Therefore it is necessary that we be respective of the wide range of views in regard to this issue and not try to force any other human being to adopt your or my or anyone elses view.
I can agree with the principle, but there may be specific exceptions to it. It's called "compromise" I believe. ;)

When public outrage at a technically legal act reaches a certain point then criminalization becomes inevitable. Now, where that magical point lies is always a really messy, highly contextual debate. Witness the debate on abortion as the most obvious current example. I would argue that there isn't a strong enough consensus to outlaw or even restrict early term abortions but there probably is for late term abortions.

Similarly, I don't think that there's a strong enough consensus to outlaw the use of non-human animals in biological and medical experimentation but I think that there is a strong enough consensus to demand humane treatment and criminalization of excessive cruelty.

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 03:37 PM
Politics is group activity, by definition.
Politics on here is pretty much a singular thing not like going to a political convention or claiming to be a democrat and supporting alll democrats, etc

Most people have sports heroes or favorite Nascar drive they support. Not me.
Like when asked who is your favorite actor ? Me I have favorite movies not actors.

uscitizen
09-01-2006, 03:39 PM
With people who enjoy cruelty to animals, well it will probably carry over to something besides animals. Cruel is cruel.

IHateGovernment
09-01-2006, 03:46 PM
Aren't we just giving in to the passions of the mob then. What about those in the minority. If enough people make a stink about profanity on television, low cut dresses or rap music can the government outlaw them.

This is the problem with full democracy.

OrnotBitwise
09-01-2006, 03:52 PM
Aren't we just giving in to the passions of the mob then. What about those in the minority. If enough people make a stink about profanity on television, low cut dresses or rap music can the government outlaw them.

This is the problem with full democracy.
This is indeed the problem with direct democracy. The constitution and the bureaucracy which springs from it are, as most of us know, designed to prevent comparatively brief trends from becoming enshrined in law. It doesn't always work but that's the idea.

There is a fuzzy line, at best, between "mob rule" and consensus. Frequently, it's all a matter of perspective: one man's consensus is another's tyranny. There's no other practical arbiter of human morality, however. We can only play the hand we're dealt by evolution. Or God, if you prefer.

krisy
09-01-2006, 06:06 PM
I disagree with you both. One of the things that's gone wrong with our society today is that "extremsim" has gotten a bad name. There has to be room for real dialogue in this nation and where you have real dialogue you will *always* have extremists.

I'm an extremist and proud of it. This nation was founded by extremists. Iindeed, many nations were. We need more extremists and we need more avenues for those with extreme views to be heard.


Maybe your right...to a point. I just believe as a general rule,not necessarily applied to politics. For instance,when people have lots of money,they want more,more,more. When you get a lot of something,it sets a standard in your mind that you HAVE to have that much.
It more applies to everyday living for me. I'm not sure what's considered extremist in political terms. Some people call me one because I simply am against abortion.