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Damocles
09-17-2007, 09:27 AM
Linky... (http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/09/kabbalah.html)

A number of celebrities, notably Madonna, are embracing a religion called Kabbalah. Celebrities I say! That is all the endorsement I need. I decided it was time to look into it.

I started with Wikipedia. Here’s what I learned about Kabbalah:

1. It’s all very confusing.
2. No one is quite sure what it is, including the people doing it.
3. Old dead people are somehow to blame.
4. Mastering Kabbalah gives you insight into God, as far as you know.

To master Kabbalah, first you must learn to understand a special language called gobbledygook. For example, in Kabbalah-talk, the definition of tzimtzum goes like this:

“The act whereby God contracted his infinite light, leaving a void into which the light of existence was poured. The primal emanation became Azilut, the World of Light, from which the three lower worlds, Beriah, Yetzirah and Assiyah, descended.”

I’m sure you had the same reaction I did when I read about tzimtzum: “I must renounce my current beliefs and dedicate my life to Kabbalah!”

more at link...

uscitizen
09-17-2007, 10:21 AM
Figures that it would start in Hollywood.
Darned nuts.

Cancel7
09-17-2007, 12:10 PM
Damo's going to hell for "making fun of God"

Cancel7
09-17-2007, 12:13 PM
Damo wrote: "however people's beliefs are not something I will make fun of. It would be hypocritical for me to make fun of another's beliefs "

Hmmmm.

LOL

Well, you can call Gus Pitch because I have just nailed your ass Damo!

And if you don't know who Gus Pitch is, watch "Intolerable Cruelty" some day.

Hermes Thoth
09-17-2007, 12:17 PM
http://www.watch.pair.com/mystery-babylon.html#cabala
The Chaldean religious tradition that was embraced by apostate Jews during their captivity in Babylon was delivered to subsequent generations by word of mouth. According to Blavatsky, these disseminators of the Chaldean tradition in the few centuries before Christ were known as Tanaim:



“Kabalist. From Q B L H, Kabala, an unwritten or oral tradition. The kabalist is a student of ‘secret science’, one who interprets the hidden meaning of the Scriptures with the help of the symbolical Kabala… The Tanaim were the first kabalists among the Jews; they appeared at Jerusalem about the beginning of the third century before the Christian era… This secret doctrine is identical with the Persian wisdom, or ‘magic’.” (Ibid. p.167)



The dictionary defines the Medieval Latin cabala as derived from the Hebrew word “qabblâ” which means “received doctrine, tradition, from qibbl, to receive.” According to the Jewish Encyclopedia, Cabalists claimed to have received these oral traditions, not from ancient Chaldeans, but from the Patriarchs and Prophets “by the power of the Holy Spirit.”



“Cabala comprised originally the entire traditional lore, in contradistinction to the written law (Torah), and therefore included the prophetic and hagiographic books of the Bible, which were supposed to have been ‘received’ by the power of the Holy Spirit rather than as writings from God’s hand... Each ‘received’ doctrine was claimed as tradition from the Fathers...to be traced back to the Prophets or to Moses on Sinai... The chief characteristic of the Cabala is that, unlike the Scriptures, it was entrusted only to the few elect ones;…’”



Because of its heretical nature, the Cabala was not generally promulgated among the Jews but remained the “secret doctrine” of “elect” Jews. That is to say, certain Jews who were deemed worthy could comprehend hidden teachings in the written Torah and, through mystical techniques, make direct contact with “God.” Among these practices are rapid recitation of the “Holy Name of God” (YHVH, or Tetragrammaton), meditation on the 11 Sephiroth of the Tree of Life which are believed to be emanations of God, learning to use the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet as force-carrying energy patterns which serve as the building blocks of the cosmos, and, finally, transcending the space/time limitations of the physical world to realize one’s “inner divinity.” This “secret doctrine” has been preserved throughout the ages to the present time by a spiritual brotherhood who progress individually to various stages of enlightenment and proficiency in the hidden wisdom—from “elect” to “adepts” to “wise men” to “adepts in grace”:



“Cabala... The specific term for the esoteric or mystic doctrine concerning God and the universe, asserted to have come down as a revelation to elect saints from a remote past, and preserved only by a privileged few. At first consisting only of empirical lore, it assumed, under the influence of Neoplatonic and Neopythagorean philosophy, a speculative character. In the geonic period it is connected with a Mishnah-like text-book, the ‘Sefer Yetzirah,’ and forms the object of the systematic study of the elect, called ‘mekubbalim’ or ‘ba’ale ha-kabbalah’ (possessors of, or adepts in, the Cabala). These receive afterward the name of ‘maskilim’ (the wise), after Dan. xii. 10; and because the Cabala is called (‘Hokmah nistarah’ = the hidden wisdom), the initials of which are , they receive also the name of (‘adepts in grace’) (Eccl. ix. 11, Hebr.).” (Ibid.)



THE PHARISEES



The “Tanaim,” which meant “teacher of the law,” were the Scribes, the rabbis whom Blavatsky identified as the first Kabalists. From the ranks of the Scribes evolved the sect of the Pharisees. According to Occult Theocrasy, by Edith Starr Miller, the creators of the Cabala were the Pharisees, who had formed their sect in Babylon during the captivity and functioned as a secret society after the Jews returned to Israel. The ‘secret doctrine’ of Babylon remained the oral tradition of the Pharisees until they committed it to written form:

Damocles
09-17-2007, 12:18 PM
Damo wrote: "however people's beliefs are not something I will make fun of. It would be hypocritical for me to make fun of another's beliefs "

Hmmmm.

LOL

Well, you can call Gus Pitch because I have just nailed your ass Damo!

And if you don't know who Gus Pitch is, watch "Intolerable Cruelty" some day.

This wasn't my site, I was not making fun of the belief, I was making fun of AHZ, Darla. Who believes that these people should be feared as they are taking over the world and have "houses" on college grounds...

Please, try again.

Hint... Look for a scientology thread. I find it hard to avoid that one.

Cancel7
09-17-2007, 12:21 PM
This wasn't my site, I was not making fun of the belief, I was making fun of AHZ, Darla. Who believes that these people should be feared as they are taking over the world and have "houses" on college grounds...

Please, try again.

Hint... Look for a scientology thread. I find it hard to avoid that one.

Oh, ok, I'm sorry. I completely missed the AHZ thing. I didn't know.

Battleborne
09-17-2007, 12:33 PM
This wasn't my site, I was not making fun of the belief, I was making fun of AHZ, Darla. Who believes that these people should be feared as they are taking over the world and have "houses" on college grounds...

Please, try again.

Hint... Look for a scientology thread. I find it hard to avoid that one.



Madonna is akin to Tom Cruise...looking for love in all the wrong places...Kabbala/Scientology one and the same...keep em' in the dark akin to mushrooms...feed em' lotsa manure..and steal their money as they laugh all the way to the bank!

Damocles
09-17-2007, 12:34 PM
Oh, ok, I'm sorry. I completely missed the AHZ thing. I didn't know.
It's alright. I am not perfect, I'll admit to making fun of Scientology. It's just so hard to avoid that one.

uscitizen
09-17-2007, 01:14 PM
I think Damo made fun of the nueters with $5 in their new jean pockets and new sneakers too. Tsk, tsk...

Damocles
09-17-2007, 01:17 PM
I think Damo made fun of the nueters with $5 in their new jean pockets and new sneakers too. Tsk, tsk...
Yeah, that one is a tough one for me to avoid as well.

I try, but it takes work to become a good Buddhist. I work at it, and will continue to do so.

Battleborne
09-17-2007, 01:26 PM
Yeah, that one is a tough one for me to avoid as well.

I try, but it takes work to become a good Buddhist. I work at it, and will continue to do so.


Admit it damo...T-bone.NY or...Ribey... is starting to look and smell really good about now!..Medium rare with a baked potatoe.(potato) sour creame and chives..or cheddhar cheese...Italian salad and a really good cold beer... your preference on brand..give it a go and come back to reality...God gave us Canines for a reason...even Buddah knows why...his weight problemo turned him...:cof1: Come back home damo...the wife would really appreciate it...shared bbq's with the kids and all!
;)


Sorry had to hit a guy when the weakness was showing...but ya know I am right!

Damocles
09-17-2007, 01:29 PM
Admit it damo...T-bone.NY or...Ribey... is starting to look and smell really good about now!..Medium rare with a baked potatoe.(potato) sour creame and chives..or cheddhar cheese...Italian salad and a really good cold beer... your preference on brand..give it a go and come back to reality...God gave us Canines for a reason...even Buddah knows why...his weight problemo turned him...:cof1: Come back home damo...the wife would really appreciate it...shared bbq's with the kids and all!
;)


Sorry had to hit a guy when the weakness was showing...but ya know I am right!
You are weird, I've told you a million times, I avoid meat for a different reason than religion.

Hermes Thoth
09-17-2007, 02:18 PM
Yeah, that one is a tough one for me to avoid as well.

I try, but it takes work to become a good Buddhist. I work at it, and will continue to do so.

Detach from striving.

Battleborne
09-17-2007, 03:11 PM
You are weird, I've told you a million times, I avoid meat for a different reason than religion.

Darla 'says' she is a veggie..a little freudian slip eh' damo...

Betta give it a rest darla prefers clams on the shell...:rolleyes:

Cancel7
09-17-2007, 04:15 PM
Darla 'says' she is a veggie..a little freudian slip eh' damo...

Betta give it a rest darla prefers clams on the shell...:rolleyes:

You are so insulting. And you get away with far too much, because you are incoherent for the most part.

You are actually stating that Damo is a vegatarian, or "claims" to be, in order to score some sort of points with me, and with heavy sexual innuendo.

Just because you are a dirty old man who attempts to hit on women here, you project this onto everyone else. Whenever I talk to Damo privately, and that is not a rare occurence, he is a gentleman and has never once said anything sexual or untoward to me.

Wipe your conscience clean.

Hermes Thoth
09-17-2007, 04:19 PM
Whenever I talk to Damo privately, and that is not a rare occurence, he is a gentleman and has never once said anything sexual or untoward to me.

Wipe your conscience clean.

Except he lets strangers play with his ass at the state fair.

Battleborne
09-17-2007, 04:42 PM
You are so insulting. And you get away with far too much, because you are incoherent for the most part.

You are actually stating that Damo is a vegatarian, or "claims" to be, in order to score some sort of points with me, and with heavy sexual innuendo.

Just because you are a dirty old man who attempts to hit on women here, you project this onto everyone else. Whenever I talk to Damo privately, and that is not a rare occurence, he is a gentleman and has never once said anything sexual or untoward to me. Wipe your conscience clean.
(right just in open court on the boards...geez...what a twit you are)


Darla get a clue already...I go back along ways with damo...I am just jerking his chain...you on the other hand come across as a total ass...ya play the game all over the board...innuendo and all...then cry and act so very innocent when someone addresses another about you...:eek:

Adam Weinberg
09-17-2007, 04:56 PM
...Kabbala/Scientology one and the same...

No, you're pretty damn wrong. The Church of Scientology is a corporate cult and Kabbalah is a sect and philosophical following of Jewish religion with no particular leader.

I don't subscribe to Kabbalah myself, but there are plenty of perfectly normal people who do.

Battleborne
09-17-2007, 05:03 PM
No, you're pretty damn wrong. The Church of Scientology is a corporate cult and Kabbalah is a sect and philosophical following of Jewish religion with no particular leader.

I don't subscribe to Kabbalah myself, but there are plenty of perfectly normal people who do.


I would expect this from a aspiring Director/Producer...albeit ya claim to already be in the business...kudos...Madonna and Tom will surely praise you for sticking up for them...! All was said in jest...I could care less what insecure Hollywood types do to entertain their alter egos...Ever hear of the term...'Tongue in Cheek'?:pke:

Adam Weinberg
09-17-2007, 05:09 PM
Yeah, I've heard of it. But you're insulting my religion.

And I am in "the business". I'm in the business of paying the bills. It's not glamorous and you should stop bringing it up unless you're asking for my autograph or you want to invest.

Battleborne
09-17-2007, 05:29 PM
Yeah, I've heard of it. But you're insulting my religion.
And I am in "the business". I'm in the business of paying the bills. It's not glamorous and you should stop bringing it up unless you're asking for my autograph or you want to invest.


I am insulting your religion...You said you do not subscribe to Kabbalah...and gave little notice to Scientology except saying it was a cult...never mind you said this of both...so are you referring to Judiasm? Which was not mentioned?


And no thank you I have all the important autographs I would want or need...as for investing...hummm...lay it out in the open forum...what is your project about...maybe I will or maybe some others would be interested!...Fair enough?

uscitizen
09-17-2007, 07:08 PM
Hmmm, I have to wonder what Adams definition of perfectly normal people are....

Damocles
09-17-2007, 07:20 PM
Except he lets strangers play with his ass at the state fair.
LOL. True dat. I didn't want to embarrass the poor lady.

Damocles
09-17-2007, 07:23 PM
No, you're pretty damn wrong. The Church of Scientology is a corporate cult and Kabbalah is a sect and philosophical following of Jewish religion with no particular leader.

I don't subscribe to Kabbalah myself, but there are plenty of perfectly normal people who do.
True, I was also going to post the story with the well-known Kabbalists in Israel stating how much Madonna disgusted them. But I didn't have time to get it.

These people are not attempting to take over the planet through any violent means, or really through even non-violent means. They believe that a Moshiach will come who will unite the world through his clear benevolence.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 06:48 AM
True, I was also going to post the story with the well-known Kabbalists in Israel stating how much Madonna disgusted them. But I didn't have time to get it.

These people are not attempting to take over the planet through any violent means, or really through even non-violent means. They believe that a Moshiach will come who will unite the world through his clear benevolence.

Actually, they do believe they must take certain steps in preparing for the arrival of moshiach. One step is "compelling" all people to follow the noahide laws. SOrry, thems the facts of the matter.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 07:00 AM
http://www.watch.pair.com/law.html

The doctrines of the Lubavitch Movement are derived from the Kabbalah, the source book of Jewish mysticism or Gnosticism. The Encyclopedia of Religion states that the Lubavitch Hasidic interpretation of the Lurianic system of Kabbalah is among those taught in traditional Jewish institutions:
"The dominant brand of Qabbalah in the modern Qabbalistic Yeshivot (traditional Jewish academies) is the Lurianic system. It is studied according to the interpretations offered by Mosheh Hayyim Luzzatto, by Eliyyahu ben Shelomoh Aalman, by Habad, the Lubavitch Hasidic Movement and by the Sefardic Qabbalists of the Beit El Academy in Jerusalem." 1.
The "Lurianic system" of Kabalah was developed by Rabbi Luria (Ari). Rabbi Luria is identified by the Encyclopedia of Religion as the most influential of the Kabbalist/Theosophists: "The success of Luria's thought was instantaneous: his theosophy was accepted unanimously . . . and his Qabbalah was regarded as superior to the Cordoverian system." 2.
H.P. Blavatsky traces the Kabbalah to the ancient mysteries of Babylon and Egypt: "As is well known, the Kabala never originated with the Jews, who got their ideas from the Chaldeans and the Egyptians." 3. Blavatsky stated in her Theosophical Glossary: "The kabalist is a student of 'secret science',... This secret doctrine is identical with that of the Chaldeans, and includes at the same time much of the Persian wisdom, or 'magic'... [T]he Kabala is derived directly from the primeval Secret Doctrine of the East; through the Vedas, the Upanishads, Orpheus and Thales, Pythagoras and the Egyptians. Whatever its source, its substratum is at any rate identical with that of all the other systems from the Book of the Dead down to the later Gnostics."

The Secret Book of the Egyptian Gnostics claims that the sacred Book of the Cave of Treasures is alleged to contain the secret teachings that were written by Adam who, prior to his interment in Persia, transmitted them to Noah. According to the Gnostic tradition, "nascent Christianity" commingled with Zoroastrianism and the commands of Adam to Noah were preserved in Persia for the generations to come:

"The principle work in which ...all these traditions became synchrotized was The Book of the Cave of Treasures...It puts all these revelations into the mouth of Adam as the first of a long series of prophets, who predicts how the Magi will await the announcement of the Saviour, near this cave in which Adam himself will have been interred, and where the Treasures are concealed which the Magi will carry to Bethlehem...
"In The Book of the Cave of Treasures ...let us quote from it these lines, supposedly spoken by the Magi: Adam imparted revelations to his son Seth...he recommended his son Seth never to fail in justice as he Adam had done. Seth welcomed the teaching of his father with a pure heart and it was given to him to inscribe this wisdom in a book and to teach it...And thanks to him, for the first time in this world, there was seen a book written in the name of the Most High. Seth bequeathed to his descendents the book thus written, and that book was handed down even to Noah...(who) took with him into the Ark the books of these teachings... He ordained in his turn that the generation that came after him were to repeat...the mysteries in the books of Seth...These mysteries and this narrative were handed down even to our fathers...who passed them on to us." 4.

The Encyclopedia of Judaism locates the Noachide Laws in the Talmud Bavli, the Babylonian Talmud.
[NOTE: On the Babylonian Talmud (T.B.), the following statement is representative Jewish scholarship: "There are two editions of the Talmud, the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud. Of these two, the Babylonian Talmud is authoritative for Orthodox Judaism, which regards it as divinely inspired... The superiority of the Babylonian Talmud is so great, that when people now talk about the Talmud, they always mean the Babylonian Talmud. The authority of the Babylonian Talmud is also greater than that of the Jerusalem Talmud. In cases of doubt the former is decisive."] 5.

The Noachide Laws - The Encyclopedia of Judaism

(1) Civil justice [the duty to establish a legal system];
(2) Prohibition of blasphemy [which includes the bearing of false witness];
(3) The abandonment of idolatry;
(4) The prohibition of incest [including adultery and other sexual offenses];
(5) The prohibition of murder;
(6) Also that of theft;
(7) The law against eating flesh [a limb] cut from a living animal [ie., cruelty in any shape or form] (T.B. Sanh. 56A)

The Talmud also states the penalty for disobedience: "One additional element of greater severity is that violation of any one of the seven laws subjects the Noahide to capital punishment by decapitation. (Sanh. 57A)"

The Chabad Lubavitch in Cyberspace provides information on the Noahide Laws:

The Seven Noahide Laws - A Guide for Mankind
In Depth Look at the Seven Noachide Laws

The Noachide Code And The Messianic Era
Courts Of Law

It has been pointed out that the second Noahide Law which prohibits blasphemy will preclude the worship of Jesus Christ, who was once accused of this very crime by the Sanhedrin. Moses Maimonides (Rabbi Moshe Ben Maimon - 1138*1204), better known as the Rambam, is universally recognized for his preeminence as a Jewish philosopher and thinker. His influence remains unabated until the present time. Maimonides classic work, Mishnah Torah, opens with a section on systematic philosophical theology, derived largely from Aristotelian science and metaphysics.

Maimonides Mishnah Torah, in Chapter 10 of the English Translation, states concerning Jesus Christ:

"It is a mitzvah [religious duty; ARC], however, to eradicate Jewish traitors, minnim, and apikorsim, and to cause them to descend to the pit of destruction, since they cause difficulty to the Jews and sway the people away from God, as did Jesus of Nazareth and his students, and Tzadok, Baithos, and their students. May the name of the wicked rot." 6.
The Mishnah is the early Talmud or the forerunner of the Talmud. To the Mishnah the rabbis later added the Gemara (rabbinical commentaries). Together these comprise the Talmud. Scholars will claim that the Talmud is partly a collection of oral traditions given by Moses which had not yet been written down in Jesus' time. However, Christ condemned the traditions of the Mishnah (early Talmud) and the Scribes and Pharisees who taught it, because the Talmud nullifies the teachings of Scripture. The warning of Jesus Christ about the traditions of men that make null and void the Word of God (Mark 7:1-13) is a direct reference to the Mishnah.

LadyT
09-18-2007, 07:22 AM
LOL. True dat. I didn't want to embarrass the poor lady.

LOL. That was the first funny thing AZH has said.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 08:52 AM
Actually, they do believe they must take certain steps in preparing for the arrival of moshiach. One step is "compelling" all people to follow the noahide laws. SOrry, thems the facts of the matter.
However, the Talmud says that they "compel" them by simply being moral. That people will naturally follow them if they act morally. The idea that "compel" in this case means that they will actually force you is only held by an even smaller and more powerless group than these.

I would post the story if I can still find it as it was a small story yesterday. They speak of them in the story, and ostracize them by saying, "wickedness is drawn to sanctity and therefore those who are wicked will be naturally drawn towards this, to use it."

Yet you say that they don't say anything against those small splinter groups that talk, but never walk. When was the last time you were approached by a Kabbalist telling you how you have to act?

/MSG/
09-18-2007, 09:47 AM
Damo, why don't you eat meat?

Damocles
09-18-2007, 09:48 AM
Damo, why don't you eat meat?
It's health reasons.

uscitizen
09-18-2007, 10:12 AM
Damo used to work in a hot dog factory ?
That would do it ;)

Battleborne
09-18-2007, 11:50 AM
Damo used to work in a hot dog factory ?
That would do it ;)


oh my maybe I better quit eating dogs too...naw they are mighty tasty!:cof1:

Damocles
09-18-2007, 11:50 AM
oh my maybe I better quit eating dogs too...naw they are mighty tasty!:cof1:
At least get the Kosher ones.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 12:12 PM
However, the Talmud says that they "compel" them by simply being moral. That people will naturally follow them if they act morally. The idea that "compel" in this case means that they will actually force you is only held by an even smaller and more powerless group than these.

I would post the story if I can still find it as it was a small story yesterday. They speak of them in the story, and ostracize them by saying, "wickedness is drawn to sanctity and therefore those who are wicked will be naturally drawn towards this, to use it."

Yet you say that they don't say anything against those small splinter groups that talk, but never walk. When was the last time you were approached by a Kabbalist telling you how you have to act?

Just like c.a.i.r. renounces terrorism.

Let's see them renounce the noahide laws, which are theocratic, and forbid idolatry, and come from the talmud.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 12:15 PM
Just like c.a.i.r. renounces terrorism.

Let's see them renounce the noahide laws, which are theocratic, and forbid idolatry, and come from the talmud.
Right. Why would they need to? The prediction is that we will all see the awesome benevolence of the Moshiach and just willingly go that route. It isn't going to happen, it is ridiculous on its face. They can believe that without harm to me, I'm good with that.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 12:19 PM
Right. Why would they need to? The prediction is that we will all see the awesome benevolence of the Moshiach and just willingly go that route. It isn't going to happen, it is ridiculous on its face.

They believe they are to prepare the world for the arrival of moshiach. Bringing the world under the noahide laws is part of that preparation. And laws against idolatry with decapitation as the penalty does not seem "willing" to me.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 12:20 PM
They believe they are to prepare the world for the arrival of moshiach. Bringing the world under the noahide laws is part of that preparation. And laws against idolatry with decapitation as the penalty does not seem "willing" to me.
I already answered this, you begin to be a broken record. The Talmud teaches that the way for them to "prepare" for this is by acting morally so others see the example and willingly follow it. Again, something that they can believe with no harm to me, more power to them.

If the world really did see the benevolence of the Moshiac and chose to follow those laws than even those laws would be chosen willingly. Your argument is repetitive and unnecessarily alarmist.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 12:22 PM
I already answered this, you begin to be a broken record. The Talmud teaches that the way for them to "prepare" for this is by acting morally so others see the example and willingly follow it. Again, something that they can believe with no harm to me, more power to them.




What ANSWER is there to a fact? Im not asking you a question.

They are to bring the world under the noahide laws. Am I making up the noahide laws?

Socrtease
09-18-2007, 12:23 PM
If you want to watch a movie that references the Kabbalah you should rent or purchase the movie Pi. It is about a guy that invents a computer that he hopes will be able to accurately anticipate fluxuations in the stock market. A group of Kabbalists find out about this machine and enlist him in helping them find the true name of god, which Kabbalists believe can only be arrived at through numbers. It is a very interesting movie. Also Madonna's Kabbalah and the Jewish Kabbalah have very little in common. Jewish Kabbalists spend lots of time in study and they don't wear those funny little bracelets that Maddona does.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 12:23 PM
What ANSWER is there to a fact? Im not asking you a question.

They are to bring the world under the noahide laws. Am I making up the noahide laws?
I answered by giving you a fact, an EXTENSION of your fact taken out of context from a site specifically against the ethnicity and religion you are attempting to "warn" us about. Pretending that the way that they "prepare" the world for their Moshiac is other than simply acting morally themselves and that it is some sort of danger to me is your deal.

You've previously stated, on another thread, that they would never come to power yet constantly must "warn" me about them? You spend inordinate amounts of energy fighting shadows and innuendo.

Cancel7
09-18-2007, 12:26 PM
Words letting you know it's ok to take a nap:

Noahide
Statists
Collectivism

Total snooze time.

Battleborne
09-18-2007, 12:29 PM
At least get the Kosher ones.


Kosher is cool...li:cof1: ke Nathans maybe...not a bad chili dog if I may say so!

Battleborne
09-18-2007, 12:33 PM
Words letting you know it's ok to take a nap:

Noahide
Statists
Collectivism

Total snooze time.


This is so fun being on ignore...so I say to bi-polar darla......sleeping is your best asset!;)

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 12:44 PM
I answered by giving you a fact, an EXTENSION of your fact taken out of context from a site specifically against the ethnicity and religion you are attempting to "warn" us about. Pretending that the way that they "prepare" the world for their Moshiac is other than simply acting morally themselves and that it is some sort of danger to me is your deal.

You've previously stated, on another thread, that they would never come to power yet constantly must "warn" me about them? You spend inordinate amounts of energy fighting shadows and innuendo.

Facts require no extension. ANd your extension is plain faced wrong.

They are to be proactive in bringing the knowledge of god to the world through the noahide laws. CHoke on it, mason. The gig is up.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 12:58 PM
Facts require no extension. ANd your extension is plain faced wrong.

They are to be proactive in bringing the knowledge of god to the world through the noahide laws. CHoke on it, mason. The gig is up.
They do when taken out of context. As I said, the Talmud specifically teaches how they apply it. Proactive in acting morally and setting that example.

I know it irks you that Freemasonry has nothing to do with being Jewish, but this is a sad a silly attack. Your preconceptions of the "danger" of this group is overshadowed by the overwhelming evidence that they have never forced anybody to follow those laws you fear so much.

Such unnecessary alarmism really makes you appear to be insane at a certain level. The "gig" is up, but not for me. I just read the Talmud from the link, and actually researched the religion from sites other than skinhead sites.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 01:08 PM
They do when taken out of context. As I said, the Talmud specifically teaches how they apply it. Proactive in acting morally and setting that example.

I know it irks you that Freemasonry has nothing to do with being Jewish, but this is a sad a silly attack. Your preconceptions of the "danger" of this group is overshadowed by the overwhelming evidence that they have never forced anybody to follow those laws you fear so much.

Such unnecessary alarmism really makes you appear to be insane at a certain level. The "gig" is up, but not for me. I just read the Talmud from the link, and actually researched the religion from sites other than skinhead sites.

Nothing's out of context. I'm in context. You're off the wall.

Freemasons are noahides.

MOst feel theocracy is undesirable.

Such hysterical denial of the truth make you seem like a mason.

These are not skinhead sites. Anyone who bothers to go read will realize that.

Your simplistic dismissals will probably suffice for most, however.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 01:09 PM
Fine. Nevermind that the foundational mythology of masonry is about the temple mount. "freemasonry and judaism are unrelated". Willful ignorance, folks, on sale here.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 01:11 PM
Nothing's out of context. I'm in context. You're off the wall.

Freemasons are noahides.

MOst feel theocracy is undesirable.

Such hysterical denial of the truth make you seem like a mason.

These are not skinhead sites. Anyone who bothers to go read will realize that.

Your simplistic dismissals will probably suffice for most, however.
Freemasons are Noahides? Rubbish. If you want to see a government that Freemasons would set up, look at the Constitution.

Theocracy presented in such a way isn't in any way coercive. "Warning" me against it is silly. Unlike, let's say Islam, where you can directly point to people coercing others into the religion can you show one Kabbalist that has ever attacked anybody in an attempt to make them believe?

Such inane belief in conspiracies taken by evidence from anti-<insert whatever here that you want to preach against> websites is plain silly. Do you believe in the Lizard-people too? I can post about a million links about them.

Those are clearly anti-Jew sites, anybody who goes to one of your sites can clearly see it.

And you super-exaggerated fearmongering is falling on deaf ears. It becomes you actively self-marginalizing rather than entering actively in society and making the changes you would like to see.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 01:13 PM
Freemasons are Noahides? Rubbish. If you want to see a government that Freemasons would set up, look at the Constitution.

Theocracy presented in such a way isn't in any way coercive. "Warning" me against it is silly. Unlike, let's say Islam, where you can directly point to people coercing others into the religion can you show one Kabbalist that has ever attacked anybody in an attempt to make them believe?

Such inane belief in conspiracies taken by evidence from anti-<insert whatever here that you want to preach against> websites is plain silly. Do you believe in the Lizard-people too? I can post about a million links about them.

Those are clearly anti-Jew sites, anybody who goes to one of your sites can clearly see it.

And you super-exaggerated fearmongering is falling on deaf ears.

Theocracy presented as a law with decapitation as the punishment is coercive.

You seem rather bothered by the truth coming out, actually.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 01:14 PM
Fine. Nevermind that the foundational mythology of masonry is about the temple mount. "freemasonry and judaism are unrelated". Willful ignorance, folks, on sale here.
It is allegorical, not true history. Each of the stories teaches things like "Charity is good" using stories, not actual history or 'mythology' as you attempt to present it.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 01:17 PM
Theocracy presented as a law with decapitation as the punishment is coercive.

You seem rather bothered by the truth coming out, actually.
No it is not coercive, not if you will actively choose to follow it, as the Talmud states you will when you see the benevolence of the Moshiac.

The difference. Active coersion = Change now or die.

This 'coersion' = See I am very moral, now you are supposed to see it and become so too...

Notice the lack of killing and any actual coersion in the second example that the Talmud teaches?

Read the links of the actual Talmud, read it and learn rather than assume that the skinheads have a better version that is more accurate.

You seem to fear that people will actually believe the truth and that you will be even further marginalized. If I actually "feared" the "truth" you wouldn't be posting on the site, man. Give that one a rest, evidence directly contradicts your assertion.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 01:23 PM
It is allegorical, not true history. Each of the stories teaches things like "Charity is good" using stories, not actual history or 'mythology' as you attempt to present it.

I'll let the informed reader do his own on this one.

judaism and freemasonry (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=judaism+and+freemasonry)

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 01:23 PM
No it is not coercive, not if you will actively choose to follow it, as the Talmud states you will when you see the benevolence of the Moshiac.

The difference. Active coersion = Change now or die.

This 'coersion' = See I am very moral, now you are supposed to see it and become so too...

Notice the lack of killing and any actual coersion in the second example that the Talmud teaches?

Read the links of the actual Talmud, read it and learn rather than assume that the skinheads have a better version that is more accurate.

You seem to fear that people will actually believe the truth and that you will be even further marginalized. If I actually "feared" the "truth" you wouldn't be posting on the site, man. Give that one a rest, evidence directly contradicts your assertion.


Is that like learning to love big brother?

Damocles
09-18-2007, 01:26 PM
I'll let the informed reader do his own on this one.

judaism and freemasonry (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=judaism+and+freemasonry)
LOL. Right.

Your first link:

http://www.sullivan-county.com/id2/fm_jews.htm



Freemasons are the favorite targets of both political and religious tyrants. Often and wrongly accussed of being part of some world-wide Jewish conspiracy by hate groups such as Christian Identity and the Religious Right, Freemasons in fact vary from country to country and reflect the culture of the host country.

Fremmasons in America, England, the Netherlands accepted Jews, Deists, Unitarians, Christians, etc. from the beginning as they did all moral persons that believed in God. Half the signers of the Constitution were Freemasons and Freemasonry shares all the great ideas that make America the great nation it is. It's no coincidence that many of the symbols on our currency and in Washington originate in Freemasonry. Our foremost American Freemason is Deist George Washington. Many of the points outlined below are the very things the extreme right and left hate about Freemasons and America in general be they communist, Islamic or Christian fundamentalist. It is no surprise that Pat Robertson, the Catholic Churrch, and Hitler all hate Freemasons.


I suggest you inform yourself. As I said, it isn't hard to actually find out about them, it isn't like they are hidden from you, just go and talk to a few, find out about the men who create a lodge and you will find your fears are baseless.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 01:27 PM
LOL. Right.

Your first link:

http://www.sullivan-county.com/id2/fm_jews.htm



I suggest you inform yourself. As I said, it isn't hard to actually find out about them, it isn't like they are hidden from you, just go and talk to a few, find out about the men who create a lodge and you will find your fears are baseless.

I have no fears. I merely convey truths.

Your hysteria is telling.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 01:28 PM
Is that like learning to love big brother?
If you willingly chose to have Big Brother would it be coersion? That is the point I make.

The reality is, nobody wants such a government, therefore their belief that we are all suddenly going to choose it because they act morally is a bit off, but it doesn't mean that they have coerced anybody.

As I have repeatedly pointed out, you have no evidence of anybody ever being killed for not being a Kabbalist, yet you have myriad examples of it from Christianity and Islam. Why do you pick on the one that has no examples? Because you like to maintain the feeling of power you have over those weaker? Pop-psychology notwithstanding, evidence of their "coersion" is at the very best weak, and in reality is not in existence at all.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 01:29 PM
I have no fears. I merely convey truths.

Your hysteria is telling.
My hysteria? You are the one desperately posting links to sites that contradict your assertions.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 01:30 PM
If you willingly chose to have Big Brother would it be coersion? That is the point I make.

The reality is, nobody wants such a government, therefore their belief that we are all suddenly going to choose it because they act morally is a bit off, but it doesn't mean that they have coerced anybody.

As I have repeatedly pointed out, you have no evidence of anybody ever being killed for not being a Kabbalist, yet you have myriad examples of it from Christianity and Islam. Why do you pick on the one that has no examples? Because you like to maintain the feeling of power you have over those weaker? Pop-psychology notwithstanding, evidence of their "coersion" is at the very best weak, and in reality is not in existence at all.


The actual teaching is that they are to bring the world under the noahide laws which do prescribe decapitation for transgression. The truth renders your post a batch of non-issues.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 01:31 PM
My hysteria? You are the one desperately posting links to sites that contradict your assertions.

Yes, your hysteria.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 01:32 PM
The actual teaching is that they are to bring the world under the noahide laws which do prescribe decapitation for transgression. The truth renders your post a batch of non-issues.
You just deliberately don't post how it is supposed to happen, because you know it is the truth and it totally takes the rug from under your silly argument. So again, I will put it back into context for you. (note how you again are repeating the same inane "fear them!" argument that has already been shown as weak as a 2 year old in a WWE wrestling match?)

They are supposed to do it by simply 'acting morally' which will make us all follow the Moshiach when he finally arrives because we will recongnize how benevolent he is.

Actually read the book, instead of actively ignoring the teaching.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 01:33 PM
Yes, your hysteria.
Evidence of hysteria? Link me up. So far I have only posted facts that seem to render your fictions powerless. What have you?

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 01:34 PM
You just deliberately don't post how it is supposed to happen, because you know it is the truth and it totally takes the rug from under your silly argument.

They are supposed to do it by simply 'acting morally' which will make us all follow the Moshiach when he finally arrives because we will recongnize how benevolent he is.

Actually read the book, instead of actively ignoring the teaching.

I've read the teaching. You should too.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 01:35 PM
I've read the teaching. You should too.
I have. You have simply ignored the actual teaching for your preferred skinhead sites. Finding out that they are supposed to "prepare" the world by simply acting morally totally destroyed every argument you have made against them long ago. One simple fact that you just "drop" every time you post it, and everything changes.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 01:53 PM
I have. You have simply ignored the actual teaching for your preferred skinhead sites. Finding out that they are supposed to "prepare" the world by simply acting morally totally destroyed every argument you have made against them long ago. One simple fact that you just "drop" every time you post it, and everything changes.

So who/what are the noahide laws for? WHy don't you explain that in context?

What skinhead site have I posted to?

Damocles
09-18-2007, 01:56 PM
So who/what are the noahide laws for? WHy don't you explain that in context?

What skinhead site have I posted to?
They are for when the Moshiach has come and we all follow him because we all "see his benevolence and choose to" follow him. It is not going to happen.

One more time. Where are your news stories of a Kabbalist beheading your neighbor for not converting? What proof do you have of their coersion other than a reference to something in the Talmud taken out of context with the way they are supposed to do such a thing?

You post the result without the cause then continue to ignore what the cause is supposed to be. It is desperation and hysteria to over-exaggerate lines taken from a text out of context and attempt to get people to fear a group of powerless people.

I find it weak.

As for the "skinhead" sites, I use the word as a description for simply "anti-Jew" sites. I even later give the example of "anti-<insert whatever you want others to fear here>" or something much like that. I think you are quick enough to catch the inference and are pretending this because you want desperately to find any part of my argument that you can pick at.

Your desperation is showing. You should zip those up so it isn't hanging out like that.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 02:04 PM
They are for when the Moshiach has come and we all follow him because we all "see his benevolence and choose to" follow him. It is not going to happen.

One more time. Where are your news stories of a Kabbalist beheading your neighbor for not converting? What proof do you have of their coersion other than a reference to something in the Talmud taken out of context with the way they are supposed to do such a thing?

You post the result without the cause then continue to ignore what the cause is supposed to be. It is desperation and hysteria to over-exaggerate lines taken from a text out of context and attempt to get people to fear a group of powerless people.

I find it weak.

As for the "skinhead" sites, I use the word as a description for simply "anti-Jew" sites. I even later give the example of "anti-<insert whatever you want others to fear here>" or something much like that. I think you are quick enough to catch the inference and are pretending this because you want desperately to find any part of my argument that you can pick at.

Your desperation is showing. You should zip those up so it isn't hanging out like that.

But one of the noahide laws is against idolatry. There would be no need for this if everyone wanted to be a noahide of his own free will.

Your desperation is showing.

The noahide laws are to be inflicted on everyone prior to the moshiach's arrival.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 02:05 PM
But one of the noahide laws is against idolatry. There would be no need for this if everyone wanted to be a noahide of his own free will.

Your desperation is showing.

The noahide laws are to be inflicted on everyone prior to the moshiach's arrival.
But it isn't. One of the Christian laws is against idolatry, does that mean that they too are coercing you? It is weakness and human frailty. It "remembers" the scene with Moses when he was on the Mount.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 02:06 PM
But it isn't. One of the Christian laws is against idolatry, does that mean that they too are coercing you?

Yes. I reject the organized christian religion.

We are not in a christian theocracy either.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 02:07 PM
And no they aren't to be "inflicted" they are ordered to prepare the world by going out, spreading around and acting morally as an example. As I said, what evidence, other than your assertions and "anti" websites that such is the case?

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 02:08 PM
And no they aren't to be "inflicted" they are ordered to prepare the world by going out, spreading around and acting morally as an example. As I said, what evidence, other than your assertions and "anti" websites that such is the case?


Yes. the noahide laws are to be inflicted. It's not a law if it's voluntary.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 02:09 PM
Yes. I reject the organized christian religion.

We are not in a christian theocracy either.
Ah, but I note that you don't "fear" them like you do Jews. Their "coersion" doesn't exist, you hate that People can actually read the words of the text and find your assertions to be false. They have even been linked to in this very thread. You resent that you have been further marginalized. I understand, but there is no reason for a hysterical fear of jews coercing you into worshipping Yahweh.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 02:09 PM
Ah, but I note that you don't "fear" them like you do Jews. Their "coersion" doesn't exist, you hate that People can actually read the words of the text and find your assertions to be false. They have even been linked to in this very thread. You resent that you have been further marginalized. I understand, but there is no reason for a hysterical fear of jews coercing you into worshipping Yahweh.

You're babbling.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 02:10 PM
Yes. the noahide laws are to be inflicted. It's not a law if it's voluntary.
You deliberately refuse to comprehend the statement. According to the teaching, people will voluntarily choose to follow the Moshiach because they will see his benevolence as they prepared the world by acting morally. Shoot that is almost a direct quote.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 02:11 PM
You're babbling.
Better translate:

"Be scared! Don't listen to him! Believe me, please! I'm desperate, fear the Jews! They'll force you to believe!"

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 02:11 PM
You deliberately refuse to comprehend the statement. According to the teaching, people will voluntarily choose to follow the Moshiach because they will see his benevolence as they prepared the world by acting morally. Shoot that is almost a direct quote.

SO who what are the noahide laws for? Miraculously converted noahides wouldn't need laws against idolatry. Do the noahide laws exist in your atrophied worldview?

Damocles
09-18-2007, 02:30 PM
SO who what are the noahide laws for? Miraculously converted noahides wouldn't need laws against idolatry. Do the noahide laws exist in your atrophied worldview?
Weak, you repeat a question already answered. It "remembers" when Moses was on the mount and those who were following the religion transgressed. It recognizes human frailty.

Plus, I believe you misrepresent the noahide laws as well.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 02:39 PM
Weak, you repeat a question already answered. It "remembers" when Moses was on the mount and those who were following the religion transgressed. It recognizes human frailty.

Plus, I believe you misrepresent the noahide laws as well.

What remembers?

I'm not misrepresenting the noahide laws. You are.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 02:44 PM
What remembers?

I'm not misrepresenting the noahide laws. You are.
The law "remembers" that those who went before them once had a problem in this particular area. I know you are quicker than this, stop being deliberately obtuse.

I haven't represented them at all. You asked what they are there for. I answered. They recognize that humans often make mistakes, even when they are trying to do right.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 02:48 PM
The law "remembers" that those who went before them once had a problem in this particular area. I know you are quicker than this, stop being deliberately obtuse.

I haven't represented them at all. You asked what they are there for. I answered. They recognize that humans often make mistakes, even when they are trying to do right.


Laws are not sentient. Laws are to rule people.

They are to be enforced on the world to hasten the arrival of moshiach.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 02:51 PM
Laws are not sentient. Laws are to rule people.

They are to be enforced on the world to hasten the arrival of moshiach.
However, when writing law you may remember history. This is lame, seriously lame.

They are not to be "enforced" until people willingly choose to submit after recognizing the benevolence of the Moshiach. Ignoring a basic tenet of a religion isn't argument, it is deliberate disingenuous behavior. You deliberately keep yourself in ignorance even when presented the actual Talmud to read you pretend that the only people with access to the "unexpurgated" version are those who fear it and preach against it.

You are deliberately keeping yourself in a prison of the mind. Let yourself free.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 04:04 PM
However, when writing law you may remember history. This is lame, seriously lame.

They are not to be "enforced" until people willingly choose to submit after recognizing the benevolence of the Moshiach. Ignoring a basic tenet of a religion isn't argument, it is deliberate disingenuous behavior. You deliberately keep yourself in ignorance even when presented the actual Talmud to read you pretend that the only people with access to the "unexpurgated" version are those who fear it and preach against it.

You are deliberately keeping yourself in a prison of the mind. Let yourself free.



You are deliberately distorting the teachings. They are to prepare the world for the arrival of moshiach. Preparation comes BEFORE, in case you forgot.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 04:44 PM
Damo and Theocracy, sitting in a tree, k.i.s.s.i.n.g..........

Damocles
09-18-2007, 06:13 PM
You are deliberately distorting the teachings. They are to prepare the world for the arrival of moshiach. Preparation comes BEFORE, in case you forgot.
No, it is distortion to take "prepare the world by acting morally" into "prepare the world" and then pretend that means by violence.

You take sites that deliberately distort the philosophy (not a religion itself BTW as you can be a Christian Kabbalist, Jewish, Muslim, or even Atheists) and then when others research other information pretend that theirs is the "wrong" information and the only "right" information is on conspiracy sites.

Here is what I found through active research on the subject of Kabbalism and the Universal Laws (Noachide Laws):

The word "noachide" itself only means "universal" and there are no punishments assigned to the "laws" any more than there are to the Law of Gravity and are given much the same weight by the Kabbalist. The only "punishment" one receives in Kabbalism for not following the "universal laws" is that they are now in dischord with the universe. There is no proscription for the death of anybody not following the laws, they are only said to be increasing the level of disorder rather than working in harmony with Creation. (I could see how this would be very much in alignment with many religions, including Buddhism.)

Judaism has 613 very specific rules, the Kabbalah only 7 wide-ranging rules. The Philosophy is much different than the religion of Judaism. While at the beginning all Kabbalists were Jewish, it is no longer the case. I don't see how Atheism fits but they even often accept even those Atheists who are "Kabbalists"...

They believe that consideration of each of the laws will reveal deeper secrets to the soul of the Kabbalist as they are layered and multi-faceted.

So far, each of the things you fear are shown to be ridiculous on its face. First that such laws will be forced on others, it is not part of the teaching or even of the Talmud. In the Talmud Jewish practitioners are told to go forth and prepare the world, but they are specifically told HOW to do this, they are told to go and "act morally" and to perform "charitable acts". In no way are they told to go forth and beat you into submission or to cut off heads.

By making it all "prepare the world" and removing the part about HOW they are to do it, you attempt to make it sound sinister and dangerous. You begin to exaggerate the "danger" and then "warn" people of how they believe the whole world will unite beneath a Moshiach (This is Judaism and not Kabbalism they are different things) and then everybody will be forced to follow these laws at danger of death.

This too is an exaggeration. They believe that all people will unite under the "universal laws" when humankind grows enough to live in Harmony rather than in dischord with Creation (Kabbalism) Those Kabbalists who are Jewish and believe that a messiah is coming (not all Jews subscribe to this belief) believe that he will be the sign that humankind is ready for this harmony and that they will accept him universally as a leader because of his benevolence and begin their study of the multi-layered laws which will reveal stuff to them.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 06:19 PM
No, it is distortion to take "prepare the world by acting morally" into "prepare the world" and then pretend that means by violence.


No. Many people consider religious laws to be moral. Religious people have been known to think violent theocracies are a divine vehicle of god.


You take sites that deliberately distort the philosophy (not a religion itself BTW as you can be a Christian Kabbalist, Jewish, Muslim, or even Atheists) and then when others research other information pretend that theirs is the "wrong" information and the only "right" information is on conspiracy sites.

Here is what I found through active research on the subject of Kabbalism and the Universal Laws (Noachide Laws):

The word "noachide" itself only means "universal" and there are no punishments assigned to the "laws" any more than there are to the Law of Gravity and are given much the same weight by the Kabbalist. The only "punishment" one receives in Kabbalism for not following the "universal laws" is that they are now in dischord with the universe. There is no proscription for the death of anybody not following the laws, they are only said to be increasing the level of disorder rather than working in harmony with Creation. (I could see how this would be very much in alignment with many religions, including Buddhism.)

Judaism has 613 very specific rules, the Kabbalah only 7 wide-ranging rules. The Philosophy is much different than the religion of Judaism. While at the beginning all Kabbalists were Jewish, it is no longer the case. I don't see how Atheism fits but they even often accept even those Atheists who are "Kabbalists"...

They believe that consideration of each of the laws will reveal deeper secrets to the soul of the Kabbalist as they are layered and multi-faceted.

So far, each of the things you fear are shown to be ridiculous on its face. First that such laws will be forced on others, it is not part of the teaching or even of the Talmud. In the Talmud Jewish practitioners are told to go forth and prepare the world, but they are specifically told HOW to do this, they are told to go and "act morally" and to perform "charitable acts". In no way are they told to go forth and beat you into submission or to cut off heads.


Your dismissive and cursory analysis is laughable. keep it up, potzy.

I'm rootin for ya, little train that can't.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 06:24 PM
Damo and Theocracy, sitting in a tree, k.i.s.s.i.n.g..........
And now we know what level you "argue" to. Repeat something I already answered again... It makes it sound like you know what you are talking about and can actually understand things you read that don't agree with your current narrow and scared view of all those evil "Jews" studying to do magic...

Damocles
09-18-2007, 06:25 PM
No. Many people consider religious laws to be moral. Religious people have been known to think violent theocracies are a divine vehicle of god.



Your dismissive and cursory analysis is laughable. keep it up, potzy.

I'm rootin for ya, little train that can't.
Imagine, you had no words to actually bring forward a considered opinion so you resort to more childish ad hominem.

Continue removing portions of sentences then pretending that you have the whole of knowledge. Read more sites about how we are to "fear" the Kabbalist because they are going to beat us all into submission. Confuse again the meaning of noachide and present a "punishment" where none exists in the actual writing. All of these things are done by those alarmist sites you read to get your "information" on the philosophy.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 06:31 PM
http://www.noahide.org/article.asp?Level=173&Parent=166

note the many references to capital punishment.


The Seven Noahide laws are general commandments with many details. Transgressing any one of them is considered such a breach in the natural order that the offender incurs the death penalty. Apart from a few exceptions, the death sentence for a Ben Noach is Sayif, death by the sword / decapitation, the least painful of the four modes of execution of criminals (see the Rambam's Hilchos Melachim 9:14). (The four methods of capital punishment in Torah are: S’kilah - Stoning; S’rifah - Burning; Hereg - Decapitation; Henek - Strangulation.) The many formalities of procedure essential when the accused is an Israelite need not be observed in the case of the Noachite. The latter may be convicted on the testimony of one witness, even on that of relatives, but not on that of a woman. He need have had no warning from the witnesses; and a single judge may pass sentence on him (Sanhedrin 57a, b; Rambam, Hilchos Melakim 9:14).

Besides these seven major Mitzvos, Chazal received a tradition that there are other Mitzvos and prohibitions that are incumbent upon Benei Noach. The Beraisa in Sanhedrin 56b, notes certain Tana'im who rule that other prohibitions are incumbent upon Benei Noach. These prohibitions are:

Hebrew Transliteration English Translation Talmud
1 Dam Min ha'Chai not to eat blood that is taken from an animal when it is alive Rabbi Chananyah ben Gamliel said: Also not to partake of the blood drawn from a living animal
2 Sirus not to perform castration/emasculation Rabbi Chidka said, they are also forbidden to castrate
3 Kishuf witchcraft Rabbi Shimon said, also Kishuf (witchcraft /sorcery) is forbidden to them.
Rabbi Yossi said, everything in the Parshah of Kishuf is forbidden to them (Deut. / Devarim 18:10-11)

4 Harba'as Behemah mating different species of animals Rabbi Eliezer added Kilayim (forbidden mixture) in plants and animals. They are permitted to wear Sha'atnez - garments of mixed fabrics [of wool and linen] and sow diverse seeds together; they are forbidden only to hybridize heterogeneous animals and graft trees of different kinds.
5 Harkavas ha'Ilan grafting trees

The Amora'im add two more prohibitions:

1. Keeping Shabbos, that is, choosing a day of the week on which to refrain from work (Sanhedrin 58b).
2. Learning Torah other than the portions that deal with the seven major Mitzvos above (San. 59a).

The Rambam in Hilchos Melachim 8:11, writes that all Benei Noach who accept upon themselves the Seven Mitzvos and are careful to keep them and are precise in their observance are termed 'Chasidei Umos ha'Olam' מֵחֲסִידֵי אֻמּוֹת הָעוֹלָם ('the Pious Ones of the Nations') and they merit a share in the World to Come. However, they must keep these Mitzvos specifically because HaShem (G-d) commanded them in the Torah through Moshe Rabeinu (Moses). If they keep and perform these Mitzvos (laws) out of intellectual conviction and as logical guidelines for the survival of the world, they are not a resident alien (Ger Toshav), nor of the Pious among the Gentiles (Chasid Umot HaOlam), nor of their wise men.

When a Ben Noach fulfills a Mitzvah of the Torah that is not prohibited to him, he receives the reward of an 'Eino Metzuveh v'Oseh' - 'one who performs a Mitzvah in which he was not commanded.' This reward is less than the reward of one who performs Mitzvos in which he was commanded (Gemara Bava Kama 38a, Kidushin 31a).

According to the Rambam's Hilchos Melachim

Avodah Zarah - Idolatry - עבודה זרה

A gentile who worships false gods is liable to the death penalty, provided he worships them in the regular form in which that particular deity is usually worshiped. A gentile is executed for every type of foreign worship which a Jewish court would consider worthy of capital punishment. However, a gentile is not executed for a type of foreign worship which a Jewish court would not deem worthy of capital punishment. Nevertheless, even though a gentile will not be executed for these forms of worship, he is forbidden to engage in all of them. They are not allow them to erect a monument, or to plant an asherah, or to make images and the like, even though they are only for the sake of beauty.

Birchat HaShem - Blasphemy - ברכת השם

A gentile who curses God's Name, whether he uses God's unique Name or one of His other names, in any language, is liable to the death penalty. Blasphemy with one of the attributes of God's name is an action which, if committed by an Israelite, would not be regarded as criminal (Sanhedrin 56b).

Dinim - Justice - הדינים

The Noachidæ are required to establish courts of justice in every city and province; and these courts are to judge the people with regard to the six laws and to warn them against the transgression of any of them (Rambam, Hilchos Melakim 9:14, 10:11; comp. Nachmanides on Gen. 34:13, where the opinion is expressed that these courts should judge also cases other than those coming under the head of the six laws, as, for example, larceny, assault and battery, etc.). A gentile who transgresses one of these Seven Mitzvot shall be executed by decapitation. A gentile is executed on the basis of the testimony of one witness and the verdict of a single judge. No prior warning is required. Relatives may serve as witnesses. However, a woman may not serve as a witness or a judge for them.

Shefichat Damim - Murder - שפיכות דמים

A gentile who slays a human being, even a fetus in its mother's womb, must be executed in retribution for its death. Similarly, if he slew a person who would have otherwise died in the near future or killed a person whose life is despaired of, or tied up and placed someone before a lion , or starved a person to death, he should be executed , for he has committed murder in one manner or other. Similarly, a pursuer should be executed if he kills the person he is chasing when he could have saved the latter's potential victim by maiming one of the attacker's limbs. Under the same circumstances an Israelite would not be executed. (Sanhedrin 57b; Rambam, Hilchos Melakim 9:4; comp. Kesef Mishneh, ad loc.).

Damocles
09-18-2007, 06:34 PM
You are once again confusing Judaism with Kabbalism. What are you talking about here.

Kabbalism have the 7 Noachide laws and do not have punishment. The Jewish religion had, and has, punishments for breaking other laws.

Mixing the two and presenting it in a "sinister and dangerous" voice doesn't change that this site is mixings its metaphors, so to speak.

This is like reading the Old Testament and saying that all Christians want to kill people who hang out with their wives on their periods.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 06:35 PM
BTW - Your linky no worky.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 06:36 PM
Imagine, you had no words to actually bring forward a considered opinion so you resort to more childish ad hominem.

Continue removing portions of sentences then pretending that you have the whole of knowledge. Read more sites about how we are to "fear" the Kabbalist because they are going to beat us all into submission. Confuse again the meaning of noachide and present a "punishment" where none exists in the actual writing. All of these things are done by those alarmist sites you read to get your "information" on the philosophy.


You can't argue with someone you must educate.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 06:39 PM
noahide apologist = own3d

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 06:49 PM
And remember, friends don't let friends live ignorant.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 06:49 PM
You can't argue with someone you must educate.
So, I can't argue with you. Okay.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 06:50 PM
noahide apologist = own3d
Noahide means "Universal", that is all. Your ingorance is blaring out again.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 06:58 PM
Noahide means "Universal", that is all. Your ingorance is blaring out again.

No. It means "relating to the covenant of noah, as alleged in the talmud".

Damocles
09-18-2007, 07:00 PM
No. It means "relating to the covenant of noah, as alleged in the talmud".
It doesn't though. I accepted that meaning until I took your advice and actually educated myself on it. I suggest you educate yourself by visiting some sites other than the paranoid.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 07:06 PM
It doesn't though. I accepted that meaning until I took your advice and actually educated myself on it. I suggest you educate yourself by visiting some sites other than the paranoid.

Yes. It does though. Really really. It will mean universal if the plan succeeds and the the noahide laws do, in fact, govern the world, but you're not there yet, sparky, the mason. Right now it's just wishful thinking. ;)

You're good at helping prep the appropriate frames.

Annie
09-18-2007, 07:08 PM
Linky... (http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/09/kabbalah.html)

A number of celebrities, notably Madonna, are embracing a religion called Kabbalah. Celebrities I say! That is all the endorsement I need. I decided it was time to look into it.

I started with Wikipedia. Here’s what I learned about Kabbalah:

1. It’s all very confusing.
2. No one is quite sure what it is, including the people doing it.
3. Old dead people are somehow to blame.
4. Mastering Kabbalah gives you insight into God, as far as you know.

To master Kabbalah, first you must learn to understand a special language called gobbledygook. For example, in Kabbalah-talk, the definition of tzimtzum goes like this:

“The act whereby God contracted his infinite light, leaving a void into which the light of existence was poured. The primal emanation became Azilut, the World of Light, from which the three lower worlds, Beriah, Yetzirah and Assiyah, descended.”

I’m sure you had the same reaction I did when I read about tzimtzum: “I must renounce my current beliefs and dedicate my life to Kabbalah!”

more at link...
Really interesting, *yawn, yawn, yawn* Sorry Damo.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 07:10 PM
Really interesting, *yawn, yawn, yawn* Sorry Damo.

I guess even mocking conspiracy theories is boring to the chronically stupid.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 07:10 PM
Yes. It does though. Really really. It will mean universal if the plan succeeds and the the noahide laws do, in fact, govern the world, but you're not there yet, sparky, the mason. Right now it's just wishful thinking. ;)

You're good at helping prep the appropriate frames.
But it doesn't.

Here, from a book I picked up on the subject. I had to retype this one for you.



There are seven Universal – or Noachide – Laws as against the 613 precepts that apply to Jews. But this does not mean that the non-Jew has an easier time complying with them. Where the Jewish precepts are very specific the Noachide Laws are general and far reaching in their scope. The Jew is told to do or not do specific things in specific circumstances. The Noachide is warned only of general modes of behaviour.

If mankind follows the laws laid down it can achieve its natural state of supremacy over the natural world. If not, then mankind will regarded as being lower than other forms of creation.

As the Noachide Laws were given by the Creator they necessarily are in harmony with creation itself. A person who elects to follow these laws is aligning his or her self with the very forces of creation and is thus helping in the process of restoring the Universe to that state which existed before the degeneration of mankind began (with the fall of Adam and Eve, according to the Bible).

The person who wilfully ignores or, even worse, actively contravenes the Noachide code increases the level of disorder in the Universe.


As you can see, a little bit of reasearch opens a whole wealth of information. Including that what I assumed you were right about (because it sure sounds like Noah) was just a wrong assumption.

Note how it is "mankind" and not just an individual judged by the result.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 07:15 PM
But it doesn't.

Here, from a book I picked up on the subject. I had to retype this one for you.



As you can see, a little bit of reasearch opens a whole wealth of information. Including that what I assumed you were right about (because it sure sounds like Noah) was just a wrong assumption.

This is paltry and pathetic. I've done more research than that. The noachide laws are concrete and do have real legal ramifications, namely capital punishment. It's not a suggestion. It's not a set of vagaries. It's a recipe for a theocracy centered around the supreme authority of the jewish people as a race of priests.

But you have a book.... Get real, man. You're embarassing yourself.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 07:16 PM
This is paltry and pathetic. I've done more research than that. The noachide laws are concrete and do have real legal ramifications, Namely capital punishment. It's not a suggestions. It's not a set of vagaries. It's a recipe for a theocracy centereed around the supreme authority of the jewish people as a race of priests.

But you have a book.... Get real, man. You're embarassing yourself.
Your research consists of conspiracy writings by sad groups who want to feel big by attacking those who won't attack back.

Seriously, you have resorted to posting links that don't work and even children's rhymes when you ran out of actual argument.

You are sad, you cannot even put forward a reasonable proximation of your fear without resorting to promoting more of the "anti" sites.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 07:18 PM
One thing I learned long ago, if you want to find something out one of the best sources is directly asking the actual people involved.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 07:20 PM
One thing I learned long ago, if you want to find something out one of the best sources is directly asking the actual people involved.

Yes. Adam was insulted by your mockery of kabbalists.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 07:22 PM
Your research consists of conspiracy writings by sad groups who want to feel big by attacking those who won't attack back.

Seriously, you have resorted to posting links that don't work and even children's rhymes when you ran out of actual argument.

You are sad, you cannot even put forward a reasonable proximation of your fear without resorting to promoting more of the "anti" sites.

Many of my sources are jewish and noahide groups. None of them are "hate" sites. throwing around the HATE word is really lame. It's beneath you dude. It's the last resort of someone who's lost the argument. Like a lib, dude.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 07:22 PM
Yes. Adam was insulted by your mockery of kabbalists.
No, he was insulted by another's suggestion that Scientology was equal to Kabbalism.

Man, at least pretend that you comprehend what people write.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 07:23 PM
Many of my sources are jewish and noahide groups. None of them are "hate" sites. throwing around the HATE word is really lame. It's beneath you dude. It's the last resort of someone who's lost the argument. Like a lib, dude.
Except they link directly to neo-nazi sites many times. Seriously, check more than just what you want to believe about them.

Seriously, only a person who "fears" them needs to "warn" everybody about their "dangerous" religion.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 07:24 PM
Except they link directly to neo-nazi sites many times. Seriously, check more than just what you want to believe about them.


WHich site of mine links to a neo nazi site? Show me.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 07:25 PM
Post the links again. I'll go through them again.

As I did before when I was researching the topic. I had to know what you were talking about.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 07:29 PM
Post the links again. I'll go through them again.

As I did before when I was researching the topic. I had to know what you were talking about.

I don't have a standard "set of links". I know there's more to it than "noahide means universal so shut up jew hater" why are you spinning so hard? Most of my links are from noahide sources. You know this if you actually go read them.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 07:33 PM
I don't have a standard "set of links". I know there's more to it than "noahide means universal so shut up jew hater" why are you spinning so hard? Most of my links are from noahide sources. You know this if you actually go read them.
Spinning? I have simply presented what I have learned. You so far have attacked me as a person, suggested that there was some conspiracy that I was part of, then even resorted to baby rhymes.

Seriously, you are coming unhinged and I feel sorry for you.

Damocles
09-18-2007, 07:37 PM
Anyway, where are the news stories that match those if Islam? Where are the Kabbalists forcing you to believe in this? Give me some evidence other than paranoia and deliberate misunderstanding of what is written, ignoring the how to pretend that it is some sinister thing.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2007, 07:37 PM
Spinning? I have simply presented what I have learned. You so far have attacked me as a person, suggested that there was some conspiracy that I was part of, then even resorted to baby rhymes.

Seriously, you are coming unhinged and I feel sorry for you.


I too, feel a great amount of pathos for you, regarding your noahidic condition. May you have a large share in the world to come.:clink:

midcan5
09-22-2007, 04:42 PM
"1. It's all very confusing.
2. No one is quite sure what it is, including the people doing it.
3. Old dead people are somehow to blame.
4. Mastering Kabbalah gives you insight into God, as far as you know."

Didn't read everything here but your four points fit most religions and go ahead make fun of people beliefs, keeps us on our toes and slowly, very slowly forces progress.

Hermes Thoth
10-04-2007, 05:06 PM
None of these links are to nazi hate sites. Damo is lying.

OrnotBitwise
10-13-2007, 10:45 PM
Anyway, where are the news stories that match those if Islam? Where are the Kabbalists forcing you to believe in this? Give me some evidence other than paranoia and deliberate misunderstanding of what is written, ignoring the how to pretend that it is some sinister thing.
Please forgive the intrusion of reality here, but I have a question. Since I don't know anyone into Kabbalah and you seem to know something about it, I thought I'd ask.

It's my impression that the popular Kabbalah sect of which Madonna is such a prominent adherent has little or nothing to do with the ancient Jewish Kabbalah texts. Traditional cabalism is very demanding and obscure; modern Kabbalah is anything but.

Or am I wrong?

Hermes Thoth
10-14-2007, 06:11 AM
Please forgive the intrusion of reality here, but I have a question. Since I don't know anyone into Kabbalah and you seem to know something about it, I thought I'd ask.

It's my impression that the popular Kabbalah sect of which Madonna is such a prominent adherent has little or nothing to do with the ancient Jewish Kabbalah texts. Traditional cabalism is very demanding and obscure; modern Kabbalah is anything but.

Or am I wrong?

You're wrong.

Damocles
10-14-2007, 08:59 AM
Please forgive the intrusion of reality here, but I have a question. Since I don't know anyone into Kabbalah and you seem to know something about it, I thought I'd ask.

It's my impression that the popular Kabbalah sect of which Madonna is such a prominent adherent has little or nothing to do with the ancient Jewish Kabbalah texts. Traditional cabalism is very demanding and obscure; modern Kabbalah is anything but.

Or am I wrong?
It is true. Regular Kabbalists state that Madonna is an example of evil being attracted to purity. In this case she is attracted to Kabbalism but chooses a modernistic approach that they would deem outside and apart from their studies. Often in these populist versions they attempt to make practitioners believe that they can do magic and other unrealistic claims.

Hermes Thoth
10-14-2007, 12:59 PM
But why is she visiting Israel, and why are "legitimate kabbalists" feeling the need to distance themselves from here? Her "form" of kabbalism is from judaism, THAT'S why she WAS IN ISRAEL and that's why they feel compelled to distance themselves. DUH.

Damocles
10-14-2007, 01:29 PM
But why is she visiting Israel, and why are "legitimate kabbalists" feeling the need to distance themselves from here? Her "form" of kabbalism is from judaism, THAT'S why she WAS IN ISRAEL and that's why they feel compelled to distance themselves. DUH.
Kabbalism began there, it is however more inclusive then Judaism. There are Kabbalists of every religion.

Hermes Thoth
10-15-2007, 02:44 AM
Kabbalism began there, it is however more inclusive then Judaism. There are Kabbalists of every religion.

No. It actually didn't begin there. It is believed the jews picked it up during one of the babylonian captivities and worked it into their priestly books of oppression and insanity.

Regardless, Madonna's version must be the jewish one, or she wouldn't be over in israel acting all retarded about it.

Oh yeah, and it's more inclusive than judaism is that noahide underlings are welcome to prostrate themselves before the ascended masters.

AnyOldIron
10-15-2007, 06:09 AM
Still banging on about the Jews AHZ????

uscitizen
10-15-2007, 06:50 AM
Good to see ya back AOI. Did you think AHZ would change ?
Jooz and the NWO, boy is a bit obsessed.

Hermes Thoth
10-15-2007, 12:16 PM
Still banging on about the Jews AHZ????

Banging on?

I believe all theocratic movements should be watched with suspicion. I'm sorry you're brainwashed, but I value freedom.

uscitizen
10-15-2007, 07:01 PM
Yeah Value something that you never really had ?
It is called ideology.
The great American myth.
Political talking points, etc...

what about my freedom to buy cheap Chinese goods and hire illegal aliens ?
donate money to the Jews, Join the Shriners, etc...

Hermes Thoth
10-16-2007, 02:05 AM
Yeah Value something that you never really had ?
It is called ideology.
The great American myth.
Political talking points, etc...

what about my freedom to buy cheap Chinese goods and hire illegal aliens ?
donate money to the Jews, Join the Shriners, etc...


Freedom is real.

What about the traditional good faith effort of citizens hiring fellow citizens instead of destroying our borders and immigration laws to placate foreign powers and lower our standard of living?

Why do you place such a premium on selling out americans?

Damocles
10-16-2007, 07:10 AM
Somebody added bacon and now they think it tastes good.

Hermes Thoth
10-16-2007, 07:50 AM
Somebody added bacon and now they think it tastes good.


"Globalism , now with new and improved space age polymers, and MORE bacon!"

uscitizen
10-16-2007, 08:31 AM
Freedom is real.

What about the traditional good faith effort of citizens hiring fellow citizens instead of destroying our borders and immigration laws to placate foreign powers and lower our standard of living?

Why do you place such a premium on selling out americans?

But that is not freedom, freedom is to hire whomever I want to.

freedom is selling out whomever one wants to.
borders restrict our freedoms.

Damocles
10-16-2007, 08:33 AM
But that is not freedom, freedom is to hire whomever I want to.

freedom is selling out whomever one wants to.
borders restrict our freedoms.
It is not freedom to imprison another through either slave wages or direct slavery.

Harming another may be an exercise in personal freedom, but it does not promote or increase freedom in any way.

Hermes Thoth
10-16-2007, 08:42 AM
But that is not freedom, freedom is to hire whomever I want to.

freedom is selling out whomever one wants to.
borders restrict our freedoms.

But in a society, all individuals look for alliances to enable their survival. You may get away abusing social trust, and ignoring historical alliances for a while. But then the world will shift against you and populations will mistrust the benevolency of your rule, then you'll be out on your ass.

uscitizen
10-16-2007, 09:09 AM
It is not freedom to imprison another through either slave wages or direct slavery.

Harming another may be an exercise in personal freedom, but it does not promote or increase freedom in any way.

Yes what type and level of freedom ?
total personal freedom will impinge on others freedom.

Damocles
10-16-2007, 09:19 AM
Hence, you incentivize right action. Nobody has said that government is unnecessary, they simply disagree on the amount of force brought to bear by government.

uscitizen
10-16-2007, 09:34 AM
Hence, you incentivize right action. Nobody has said that government is unnecessary, they simply disagree on the amount of force brought to bear by government.

and which groups that force is brought to bear on.

Damocles
10-16-2007, 09:40 AM
and which groups that force is brought to bear on.
Pretty much. Hence we have political parties, ideologies, differences of opinions, beautiful argument, and work to promote the society we feel will do the best job of giving us the freedoms we so richly deserve and should consistently be vigilant of.

uscitizen
10-16-2007, 09:41 AM
Pretty much. Hence we have political parties, ideologies, differences of opinions, beautiful argument, and work to promote the society we feel will do the best job of giving us the freedoms we so richly deserve and should consistently be vigilant of.

and still keep losing freedoms.....

Damocles
10-16-2007, 09:43 AM
and still keep losing freedoms.....
We can reverse that trend, if we act wisely.

uscitizen
10-16-2007, 10:32 AM
I have acted wisely, but the majority of the country.....

Hermes Thoth
10-16-2007, 10:50 AM
I have acted wisely, but the majority of the country.....


...comprises greater than half the country. yeah. We know what you mean,bro:clink: .

OrnotBitwise
10-17-2007, 10:40 PM
It is true. Regular Kabbalists state that Madonna is an example of evil being attracted to purity. In this case she is attracted to Kabbalism but chooses a modernistic approach that they would deem outside and apart from their studies. Often in these populist versions they attempt to make practitioners believe that they can do magic and other unrealistic claims.I thought as much. Traditional cabbalism is exceedingly difficult and exacting: most people who take it up drop it very quickly. It's the study of a lifetime or not at all.

Hermes Thoth
10-18-2007, 04:33 AM
I thought as much. Traditional cabbalism is exceedingly difficult and exacting: most people who take it up drop it very quickly. It's the study of a lifetime or not at all.


Your creating a distinction in your mind, with no real difference. Pretty pathetic.

Madonna's cabalism is real cabalism. It's just that traditionally it's not supposed to be taught to non jews, or even jews under middle age or so. It's the "hidden teachings".