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View Full Version : It’s Time to Tell the Truth: Republicans Aren’t Christians



poet
06-03-2013, 07:42 AM
http://www.forwardprogressives.com/its-time-to-tell-the-truth-republicans-arent-christians/

".....So please, stop calling Republicans “Christians”—they’re not.
I can’t count the times I’ve heard people say they don’t consider themselves Christians any longer because of the ignorance of the Republican Party. Millions have abandoned Christianity because these people have hijacked a faith to distort it for their own political gains.
It’s time real Christians take back their faith from these people who’ve turned so many sour on Christianity. It’s time they rise up against these ignorant fake Christians and call them out directly on the truth. They don’t follow Christianity.
They follow Republicanity. They worship Reagan, guns and greed—not Jesus Christ."

Hush, truth!

Red Mule
06-03-2013, 09:41 AM
I've been saying this for a long time. It's nice to see someone else sees it too.

I have attended churches that have not (yet?) been co-opted by the political right, but not many. Certainly no fundamentalist churches.

I think the RW power brokers could care less about abortion, except as a political wedge issue. But they used that one issue over the past several decades to get those people that care about it to follow them on all kinds of OTHER issues. Things like having the freedom to pollute our planet and their God/Constitutional RIGHT to shot up the neighborhood in spite of innocent deaths, and various human rights abuses, which I think Jesus and Buddha and Mohamed would all agree are terrible. But, somehow the self-styled Christians don't see the disconnect. It's a real head shaker to me.

BRUTALITOPS
06-06-2013, 12:55 AM
a christian is someone who believes in the divinity of jesus and follows the bible. You don't get to play no true scotsman.

poet
06-06-2013, 06:11 AM
a christian is someone who believes in the divinity of jesus and follows the bible. You don't get to play no true scotsman.

Who, on the right, does that describe????????? LOLOLOLOL

tekkychick
06-06-2013, 07:43 AM
It's always funny to me when someone tries to say THEY are christian and someone else isn't.

Many christians claim the Latter Day Saints (Mormons) aren't christians; Jehovah's Witnesses are pretty scornful of Catholics; heck, even the Bob Jones University guy doesn't really like Catholics, right?

Everyone is so busy pointing out someone else's errors that they forget the whole you "without sin throw the first stone".

Personally, I let people self-identify... if they say they are christian, they're christian. They may follow their faith's precepts closely or they may only think about them twice a year, but what do I care?

Read a story about one town being for total immersion and another town being for partial immersion and thus they feuded. I'm assuming it wasn't true, but who knows?

As long as they aren't coming after me with pitchforks, if they say they are christian - cool, they are.

PostmodernProphet
06-06-2013, 09:20 AM
As long as they aren't coming after me with pitchforks, if they say they are christian - cool, they are.

but that begs the question....are there those who Christians can go after with pitchforks and still be Christians?........

as well as the question, can everyone use the name of Christ, act as the wish and retain credibility.....take for example some of the folks in Africa who form groups with the word Christian in the name and then engage in kidnapping, rape, murder and torture......may we be so forward as to question whether they're Scotch enough to know the difference between kilt and killed?........

Minister of Truth
06-06-2013, 09:24 AM
The left is just trying to find a way to make abortion "okay" to as many self-described Christians as they can. That is all this debate will ever be about, until abortion is done away with, the future Dems claim victory over the future pro-abortion GOP, and the Dems get to work finding some other moral quandary that Christians object to.

tekkychick
06-06-2013, 10:02 AM
but that begs the question....are there those who Christians can go after with pitchforks and still be Christians?........
.

Sure. Not up to me to define what is christian and what isn't. But you may want to run that question by a theological person.

People who call themselves christians have been killing pretty much as long as they have existed. (and yes, other religions have too - we're just discussing christians at the moment).

They might be very bad christians, but if they say they are christian I personally am not going to tell them they aren't.

Of course, if I considered myself a christian, I might feel differently. But it's rare that the distinction comes down to pitchforks; many sects have split off over seem from my perspective relatively minor differences. (but yes, that's just my perspective - obviously the people involved felt differently)

Phantasmal
06-06-2013, 10:03 AM
The left is just trying to find a way to make abortion "okay" to as many self-described Christians as they can. That is all this debate will ever be about, until abortion is done away with, the future Dems claim victory over the future pro-abortion GOP, and the Dems get to work finding some other moral quandary that Christians object to.

Huh?

Annie
06-06-2013, 10:12 AM
Seems to me adherents of any belief system can call themselves what they wish, live the way they wish. Bottom line is that 'fellow' practitioners can label any way they wish, ultimately it's not their call to make. Judgment isn't theirs, though the arguments can be interesting, for a few minutes anyways.

poet
06-06-2013, 10:44 AM
but that begs the question....are there those who Christians can go after with pitchforks and still be Christians?........

as well as the question, can everyone use the name of Christ, act as the wish and retain credibility.....take for example some of the folks in Africa who form groups with the word Christian in the name and then engage in kidnapping, rape, murder and torture......may we be so forward as to question whether they're Scotch enough to know the difference between kilt and killed?........

Oh, please. Like the Crusades? Like the unofficial English-Irish War? Like the Moral Majority? Like the Christian Right? No different than the Taliban.

Phantasmal
06-06-2013, 11:11 AM
Seems to me adherents of any belief system can call themselves what they wish, live the way they wish. Bottom line is that 'fellow' practitioners can label any way they wish, ultimately it's not their call to make. Judgment isn't theirs, though the arguments can be interesting, for a few minutes anyways.

The thing is when I was a practicing Catholic we were told to imitate Jesus. It was what Christians should do, set an example. I was told, they will know you are Christian by your love.

I have a problem with it when those "Christians" come on this forum and judge others and then use language towards them that I know they would not use in front of their priests or preachers!

PostmodernProphet
06-06-2013, 12:15 PM
People who call themselves christians have been killing pretty much as long as they have existed.

actually, that hobby sort of died out after the Bubonic Plague......but, hey.....what have you done for me lately........

tekkychick
06-06-2013, 12:18 PM
Um - Ireland? Protestants vs. Catholics? post-Bubonic plague...

PostmodernProphet
06-06-2013, 12:18 PM
Oh, please. Like the Crusades? Like the unofficial English-Irish War? Like the Moral Majority? Like the Christian Right? No different than the Taliban.

I'm willing to concede the Crusades......then you had to go and start babbling like an idiot.......bring me something that's happened this millennium and we can talk......

PostmodernProphet
06-06-2013, 12:20 PM
Um - Ireland? Protestants vs. Catholics? post-Bubonic plague...

was that political or religious......I think they were a bit more concerned about the Queen than they were the Pope.......

PostmodernProphet
06-06-2013, 12:21 PM
The thing is when I was a practicing Catholic we were told to imitate Jesus. It was what Christians should do, set an example. I was told, they will know you are Christian by your love.

I have a problem with it when those "Christians" come on this forum and judge others and then use language towards them that I know they would not use in front of their priests or preachers!

I would have no problem telling my preacher that I had an argument with a fucking idiot on the internet.......he might even ask if it was Rana......

poet
06-06-2013, 12:27 PM
I'm willing to concede the Crusades......then you had to go and start babbling like an idiot.......bring me something that's happened this millennium and we can talk......
I don't have to do shit... and what makes you think I want to talk to you? I just refute your nonsense and lies and carry on.

"....take for example some of the folks in Africa who form groups with the word Christian in the name and then engage in kidnapping, rape, murder and torture."

Oh you mean like what white folk in America and Europe did to Africans? And then used the Bible as justification??? Please. It's why I don't put any weight behind what most white folk say, believe or represent. Because most everything is based on "lies". There is no credibility. There are few credible, righteous, and decent white people, due to "white privilege", which has the lot of you believing that you do, say, and think nothing ever "wrong", and that you are blameless, and angels. I'm willing to say 50/50. Even Mitt Romney put it at 47%, and who would know better than him, being the the "great white hope d'jour". Bravo for falling into that waiting "manhole" . LOL

poet
06-06-2013, 12:29 PM
was that political or religious......I think they were a bit more concerned about the Queen than they were the Pope.......

Circa Queen Elizabeth I??? When the Vatican commissioned her assassination, and deemed her a heretic? Like the Papacy wasn't that fresh from the Borgias. I know History.
Like you, like them....what would you know of "clean hands"?

tekkychick
06-06-2013, 03:35 PM
was that political or religious......I think they were a bit more concerned about the Queen than they were the Pope.......

It was protestants and catholics killing each other. They did it in the name of religion. Along with that, some of them wanted a separate country.

Point being that violence from one christian group against another group that wasn't of the same sect and/or religion didn't stop with the bubonic plague times.

And yes, this isn't just a christian thing. People are violent and religion is one of the excuses they use to be violent.

Minister of Truth
06-06-2013, 06:13 PM
The English started it, though, when they tyrannized and murdered the Irish people with their conquering armies. :D

PostmodernProphet
06-06-2013, 06:26 PM
and what makes you think I want to talk to you?

besides the fact you keep doing it?.......

PostmodernProphet
06-06-2013, 06:29 PM
Along with that, some of them wanted a separate country.

that was an extremely big "along"....but I'll let Tom comment on that....its his country, not mine.....

tekkychick
06-06-2013, 06:37 PM
Sure, it's a big part of it. But - last time I'll say it - it was christians killing christians post-bubonic plague.

Sorry for the repetition everyone; I will now go and wear my hair shirt for a bit.

PostmodernProphet
06-06-2013, 06:48 PM
Sure, it's a big part of it. But - last time I'll say it - it was christians killing christians post-bubonic plague.

Sorry for the repetition everyone; I will now go and wear my hair shirt for a bit.

by that standard then, the American Civil War was Christians killing Christians.....and WW2, I suspect.......and equally, likely some atheists killing atheists and agnostics killing Christians and whatevers killing whatevers in Northern Ireland so long as one favored the English and the other didn't.......sorry, it simply isn't a religious tossup...

Red Mule
06-06-2013, 09:21 PM
This thread has me a little confused...

Is it ANY violence committed by Christians we are looking for, or just the violence they do in the name of their religion, or just C on C violence, or C on someone else (I got lazy and figured you could understand C was abbreviated Christian.)

And how far can we go back and how far away before someone starts saying that's not here and now? Because I'm sure the more detail we pile up, the more of that excuse we will hear.

Here's an interesting site, http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm, even if you just look at the list of 20th Century Church Atrocities.
But, maybe they don't count because they happened in 1942-1943 Germany to Jews, 1954 Vietnam to Buddhists, and 1994 Africa to Tutsi ethnic groups.

Then you have those Christian Nut Jobs that picket veteran funerals. I call that emotional violence. You may not call them Christians but who gets to decide? They worship Christ.

Then you can look at today's Catholic Church. How many female priests? Why not? Women not good enough? Image and emotional violence!

In Serbia there was outright murder of Muslims by Christians. And it isn't just hearsay - They have a video tape exposing it that has finally forced a reluctant Serbian government in Belgrade to confront wartime atrocities, including the 1995 Srebrenica massacre, in which Serb soldiers killed more than 7,000 Bosnian Muslim men and boys. The video captures a uniformed Serbian paramilitary unit executing six civilian men. It is now evidence at the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia in The Hague... (http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/blog/2005/07/srebrenica_the_1.html) - but maybe 18 years ago in Serbia is too long and to far away?

Which was the question I started with and why I hate answering questions from people that I know will just keep moving the goal posts.

DamnYankee
06-06-2013, 09:42 PM
http://www.forwardprogressives.com/its-time-to-tell-the-truth-republicans-arent-christians/

".....So please, stop calling Republicans “Christians”—they’re not.
I can’t count the times I’ve heard people say they don’t consider themselves Christians any longer because of the ignorance of the Republican Party. Millions have abandoned Christianity because these people have hijacked a faith to distort it for their own political gains.
It’s time real Christians take back their faith from these people who’ve turned so many sour on Christianity. It’s time they rise up against these ignorant fake Christians and call them out directly on the truth. They don’t follow Christianity.
They follow Republicanity. They worship Reagan, guns and greed—not Jesus Christ."

Hush, truth!

This, from a homo.

Annie
06-07-2013, 02:03 AM
The thing is when I was a practicing Catholic we were told to imitate Jesus. It was what Christians should do, set an example. I was told, they will know you are Christian by your love.

I have a problem with it when those "Christians" come on this forum and judge others and then use language towards them that I know they would not use in front of their priests or preachers!

You think that's a 'Catholic problem?' Seems a few "christians" and atheists/agnostics have a like problem regarding civility and messageboard. Something new everyday.

Personally I try to be civil, mostly here I am. Easy enough posting a few times a month.

PostmodernProphet
06-07-2013, 06:25 AM
Then you have those Christian Nut Jobs that picket veteran funerals. I call that emotional violence. You may not call them Christians but who gets to decide? They worship Christ.

/grins....one one hand the left complains because we don't condemn their actions, on the other they complain because we say they aren't Christian.....go figure.....

Red Mule
06-08-2013, 08:01 AM
/grins....one one hand the left complains because we don't condemn their actions, on the other they complain because we say they aren't Christian.....go figure.....

Original assertion:
".....So please, stop calling Republicans “Christians”—they’re not

Replies:

* but that begs the question....are there those who Christians can go after with pitchforks and still be Christians?........
* I'm willing to concede the Crusades......then you had to go and start babbling like an idiot.......bring me something that's happened this millennium and we can talk......
* because we don't condemn their actions, on the other they complain because we say they aren't Christian

Sort of, if they do that they must not be Christian?

I define someone a Christian as someone who thinks Jesus was the Christ Messiah and is/was divine. I believe it is also an article of faith that except for him, none of the rest of us are perfect and will always come short of his perfection. So, one can be Christian and still fail to do everything "right." Which kind of invalidates (in my mind) the argument that "if they do that they can't be Christians."

So... The original assertion should have been ".....So please, stop calling Republicans “GOOD Christians”—they’re not"

And then you and others could have agreed that sometimes (always?) Christians are bad - however one wants to define that - or certainly subject to fits of violence or wrongheadedness?

Putting all that word/idea splicing aside as somewhat meaningless, perhaps the discussion should be changed to Republican Values are NOT Christian Values, at least as most of us define Christian values once we pull the political ideology aside. Because (just as one example) I'm pretty sure if Christ were asked "Jobs and Profits vs. safeguarding the people and the planet" he would probably tell us to find a better way to to get Jobs and Profits. Apply the same thinking to crime and punishment and if we should help one another or tell them to it's not our problem, as well as many other things that seem to divide us today and you'll see where I am coming from on the whole Christianity and politics thing.

By THAT definition, Republican ideology does not fit with Christian ideology, thus poet's original assertion.

poet
06-08-2013, 08:06 AM
Original assertion:
".....So please, stop calling Republicans “Christians”—they’re not

Replies:

* but that begs the question....are there those who Christians can go after with pitchforks and still be Christians?........
* I'm willing to concede the Crusades......then you had to go and start babbling like an idiot.......bring me something that's happened this millennium and we can talk......
* because we don't condemn their actions, on the other they complain because we say they aren't Christian

Sort of, if they do that they must not be Christian?

I define someone a Christian as someone who thinks Jesus was the Christ Messiah and is/was divine. I believe it is also an article of faith that except for him, none of the rest of us are perfect and will always come short of his perfection. So, one can be Christian and still fail to do everything "right." Which kind of invalidates (in my mind) the argument that "if they do that they can't be Christians."

So... The original assertion should have been ".....So please, stop calling Republicans “GOOD Christians”—they’re not"

And then you and others could have agreed that sometimes (always?) Christians are bad - however one wants to define that - or certainly subject to fits of violence or wrongheadedness?

Putting all that word/idea splicing aside as somewhat meaningless, perhaps the discussion should be changed to Republican Values are NOT Christian Values, at least as most of us define Christian values once we pull the political ideology aside. Because (just as one example) I'm pretty sure if Christ were asked "Job and Profits vs. safeguarding the people and the planet" he would probably tell us to find a better way to to get Jobs and Profits. Apply the same thinking to crime and punishment and if we should help one another or tell them to it's not our problem, as well as many other things that seem to divide us today and you'll see where I am coming from on the whole Christianity and politics thing.

By THAT definition, Republican ideology does not fit with Christian ideology, thus poet's original assertion.

Ooops, PMP. That's gonna leave a mark.

DamnYankee
06-08-2013, 10:09 AM
... "Jobs and Profits vs. safeguarding the people and the planet" ....

This is a simple straw man logical fallacy.

Red Mule
06-08-2013, 10:41 AM
This is a simple straw man logical fallacy.

I guess it helps to cherry pick one line? OK, I'll work with that one line.

How about Job Creation and Environment? As in this story...
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/05/business/economy/a-debate-arises-on-job-creation-vs-environmental-regulation.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Republicans and business groups say - that environmental protection is simply too expensive for a battered economy...Many economists agree that regulation comes with undeniable costs that can affect workers...some argue that the costs can be offset as companies develop cheaper ways to clean up pollutants...

I don't want to rehash the whole "green" agenda here, but the scientific studies (yes, I can provide sources) says pollution increases health hazards, causes sickness, and sometimes earlier deaths. Now, I think the Jesus I learned about would look at that whole issue and say health and lives should come first. I still picture Jesus wearing sandals and ministering to the poor and lame. Where he expels the money changers from the Temple, accusing them of turning it into a den of thieves through their commercial activities. “Sell your possessions,” Jesus told his disciples, “and give to the poor.”

I do not visualize him in a business suit sitting that the head of the company boardroom table discussing next year's profits. But, that seems to be how today's republicans want to visualize him. The values of Martin Luther King, for all his own personal faults, better reflect the message Jesus taught than ANY of today's Right Wing establishment.

DamnYankee
06-08-2013, 12:00 PM
I guess it helps to cherry pick one line? OK, I'll work with that one line.

How about Job Creation and Environment? As in this story...
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/05/business/economy/a-debate-arises-on-job-creation-vs-environmental-regulation.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Republicans and business groups say - that environmental protection is simply too expensive for a battered economy...Many economists agree that regulation comes with undeniable costs that can affect workers...some argue that the costs can be offset as companies develop cheaper ways to clean up pollutants...

I don't want to rehash the whole "green" agenda here, but the scientific studies (yes, I can provide sources) says pollution increases health hazards, causes sickness, and sometimes earlier deaths. Now, I think the Jesus I learned about would look at that whole issue and say health and lives should come first. I still picture Jesus wearing sandals and ministering to the poor and lame. Where he expels the money changers from the Temple, accusing them of turning it into a den of thieves through their commercial activities. “Sell your possessions,” Jesus told his disciples, “and give to the poor.”

I do not visualize him in a business suit sitting that the head of the company boardroom table discussing next year's profits. But, that seems to be how today's republicans want to visualize him. The values of Martin Luther King, for all his own personal faults, better reflect the message Jesus taught than ANY of today's Right Wing establishment.

"Spencer Weitman, president of the National Cement Company of Alabama, said the environmental regulations were a moving target."

The article doesn't address your straw man fallacy at all. If you don't have jobs and profits, you can't do anything to safeguard the people and the planet.

MLK was a Republican.

PostmodernProphet
06-08-2013, 01:47 PM
Ooops, PMP. That's gonna leave a mark.

why?.....to me it merely underscores the stupidity of the OP........Republicans are gathered around political ideas....Christians are gathered around theological ideas......the underlying premise behind the OP was that Republicans were SUPPOSED to equal Christians or that Christians were supposed to equal Republicans.......that's the argument of brainless liberals....

given that fact that the typical human being, Christian or otherwise, does something that violates the will of God approximately every seven minutes, should I get a bruise from someone saying Republicans don't act the way they ought?......obviously not......neither do Democrats, neither do Libertarians......

Poet's original assertion, which was false, was that the Republican ideology was INTENDED to be the Christian ideology.......

Boris The Animal
06-08-2013, 02:35 PM
Aaron is nothing more than an ultraliberal racist douchebag. Nothing more, nothing less.

poet
06-08-2013, 03:25 PM
Aaron is nothing more than an ultraliberal racist douchebag. Nothing more, nothing less.

Ultraliberal??? Nah....more moderately liberal.
Racist? Impossible. I have too many whites that I simply adore, to ever be considered racist. What I abhor is racist of any color.
A douchbag???? Sorry, but I'm unfamiliar with backwoods "whitespeak". I have no idea what that is.
And only my friends call me Aaron. My ID says "poet". You are not my friend. I'm not an animal lover. You are a vole.

Boris The Animal
06-08-2013, 03:46 PM
You are still an ultraliberal douchebag. And yes, all Liberals are the enemy of America.

Topspin
06-10-2013, 05:21 AM
Boris Christians are retarded, like your little yellow bus