Confirm John Bolton

[Annie]

I thought this board might find this an interesting pov:

http://austinbay.net/blog/?p=1359


On confirming Ambassador Bolton

At the end of July Dr Demarche (formerly of the DailyDemarche) and I traded emails about John Bolton and Bolton’s upcoming round of confirmation hearings. Demarche and I agree he deserves confirmation. Moreover, he’s earned it

Mix emails and –presto (with Demarche’s approval)– a discussion produces a joint declaration:

The situation is ironic, given the accusations Bolton faced during his first round of confirmation hearings: Bolton represents a curious form of renewed confidence in the UN. He is an honest voice who understands UN strengths and wants to correct UN weaknesses. If the U.N. has any hope of being relevant in the coming years it must change in deep and meaningful ways, and Ambassador John Bolton is just the catalyst needed.

The rap on Bolton is he’s a prickly boss, a tough taskmaster, and possesses a sharp tongue. (Demarche aside: Austin says he’s not as bad as Hillary Clinton, and he has a point.) The appropriate response to this rap is: So what? Our diplomatic system isn’t designed to promote good bosses, but rather good diplomats. (Another Demarche aside: The fact that it rarely produces both is fodder for another post.) “Good” diplomats deliver policy decisions without interpreting them- they remember their oath of office and duties as representatives of the Executive office. And here’s another point to remember: an Ambassador is the direct representative of the President, and when he speaks, those on the receiving end should be aware of that fact. When Bolton (like Secretary of State Condi Rice) speaks, he makes it clear whose power lies behind the words.

John Bolton also supports real human rights, not the rhetorical human rights favored by thug nations like Sudan and Zimbabwe. Bolton hasn’t reformed the UN Human Rights Commission — not yet. But he has laid the diplomatic and political groundwork for significant change.

Let’s also note another recent success. Any US ambassador on duty at the UN when China votes for sanctions against North Korea should get a medal on top of confirmation. That’s right, China did not cast an abstention, but voted for sanctions.





We’ll see how the confirmation games play out over the next six weeks.

[Sir Evil]

I doubt any of shitbricks here would wanna see Bolton confirmed, afterall he is the choice of the adminsitration......

[OrnotBitwise]

I doubt any of shitbricks here would wanna see Bolton confirmed, afterall he is the choice of the adminsitration......I wouldn't care if he were the personal choice of Jimmy Carter. The only post I want to see him confirmed for is Flamming Asshole.

[Sir Evil]

Ok Ornery, how about an opinion of your own as to why you say this?

[Annie]

I wouldn't care if he were the personal choice of Jimmy Carter. The only post I want to see him confirmed for is Flamming Asshole.

I was going to say what Evil did, but *ahem* perhaps a tad more politely: :cool:

What is wrong with the analysis of Mr. Bay?

[Sir Evil]

Bumpity bump Ornery, hit us with yer best shot!:cof1:

[BRUTALITOPS]

I love john bolton. Seriously. He is god.

[Annie]

I love john bolton. Seriously. He is god.

No comment on Jimmy or Austin?

[Sir Evil]

I love john bolton. Seriously. He is god.

Sarcasm or reality?

I like the selection for the very single reason that he will help expose the useleness of the UN, unless serious headway is made within I would be all for getting out of it alltogether.

[BRUTALITOPS]

lol no, I wasn't being sarcastic. Maybe a little over the top, but I really do think bolton is the man.

[BRUTALITOPS]

"I would be all for getting out of it alltogether."

I completely agree, except I don't think any serious headway CAN be made.

[Sir Evil]

"I would be all for getting out of it alltogether."

I completely agree, except I don't think any serious headway CAN be made.

I am afraid that is the case as well! You can be certain that many of the problems exisitng in the middle east right now are part of the UN failures so for anyone to lay blame on the US should take a closer look at the UN and their failures.

[Cancel7]

LOL

How incredibly naive you dear boys are. Out of the UN.

Yeah, that's the agenda.

Wake up. The UN is simply a tool of the United States. We're not going to get out of it, we control it. Oh sure, we allow our little puppets to once in a while go for a whirl on the national state without their strings, but that's just for appearances. And it's just for talkin. When it comes to doin, we say what, we say where, we say when, and we say who.

And the UN says, yes sirs.

You boys do make me laugh though.

[Sir Evil]

LOL

How incredibly naive you dear boys are. Out of the UN.

Yeah, that's the agenda.

Wake up. The UN is simply a tool of the United States. We're not going to get out of it, we control it. Oh sure, we allow our little puppets to once in a while go for a whirl on the national state without their strings, but that's just for appearances. And it's just for talkin. When it comes to doin, we say what, we say where, we say when, and we say who.

And the UN says, yes sirs.

You boys do make me laugh though.

Speaking of incredibly naive!

Tell me Darla, why did the U.S act without the UN's consent if we are such controllers over it? Why will there be a need for unilaterall action against iran when UN sanctions are not enforced? Why so many failures period from the UN? is it all the fault of the US?

[Cancel7]

Speaking of incredibly naive!

Tell me Darla, why did the U.S act without the UN's consent if we are such controllers over it? Why will there be a need for unilaterall action against iran when UN sanctions are not enforced? Why so many failures period from the UN? is it all the fault of the US?

For the stunningly obvious reason that countries such as France refused to provide ground troops for bush's war. But they also did absolutely nothing to stop the war they were supposedly so dead set against. The UN is completely powerless to stop the US from doing anything it wants to do. The idea that it is some threat to US sovereignty is laughable, and the war in Iraq is proof of that.

The recent debacle in the mid-east showed the absolute authority of the United States. Though it was widely held throughout the rest of the world, including in world leadership, that there should be an immediate cease-fire, the US told them "no" and "sit". And that's what they did.

As for Iran, you are stating something that has yet to pass. So we as of yet have no way of knowing that if and when (when actually) bush bombs, and probably nukes IRan, it will be unilaterally, though I imagine that if he goes through with the nuking, it will be. Other than Israel of course.

[Sir Evil]

As for Iran, you are stating something that has yet to pass. So we as of yet have no way of knowing that if and when (when actually) bush bombs, and probably nukes IRan, it will be unilaterally, though I imagine that if he goes through with the nuking, it will be. Other than Israel of course.


Let's put it in perspective Darla, France held up the show fighting for a better deal in lebanon, they got it! Now they don't want to commit because they know damn well that they can't do what the peace agreement calls for! What amount of troops did they commit? how long has the UN been there? it's nothing that has'nt been seen before, the problem will not go away no matter the amount of peace agreements sanctioned by the UN because they simply don't enforce them.

Tell me how they enforced anything with iraq? this is why unilaterall action was taken, the UN is absolutely dysfunctional. Watch how iran will simply defy the UN over the nuke situation, why? because they can, and the UN can't stop them. The iranian leader already knows this, and has already openly said this about the UN.

So tell me Darla, what to do about iran? shall we sit back and let the UN handle it? if what will happen?

[Cancel7]

Let's put it in perspective Darla, France held up the show fighting for a better deal in lebanon, they got it! Now they don't want to commit because they know damn well that they can't do what the peace agreement calls for! What amount of troops did they commit? how long has the UN been there? it's nothing that has'nt been seen before, the problem will not go away no matter the amount of peace agreements sanctioned by the UN because they simply don't enforce them.

Tell me how they enforced anything with iraq? this is why unilaterall action was taken, the UN is absolutely dysfunctional. Watch how iran will simply defy the UN over the nuke situation, why? because they can, and the UN can't stop them. The iranian leader already knows this, and has already openly said this about the UN.

So tell me Darla, what to do about iran? shall we sit back and let the UN handle it? if what will happen?

In fact, the US held out, to give Israel the time it asked them for to finish the job. The problem arose when Hezbollah gave Israel far more than the bargained for, which was a swift kick in the ass. Now, Hezbollah has been streghtened and the perception of Israel has been weakened. This was a lose-lose scenerio for both Bush and Israel. I was watching a talk show today and it was amazing that all around, there was acknowledgement that this was a big loss for both bush and Israel, with righties as different as Patrick Buchanon (a traditional Paleo) and Tony Blankely (a neocon) both agreeing. Buchanon also said that you could see in bush's face that he was angry as hell about it, and Blankely said it didn't do bush's "credibility any good" to be claiming that Hezbollah lost. (poor sob, was actually still under the impression that bush has any credibility to lose I guess). And you know what? I think that generally, no good comes from murdering children, and that in any "war" or "self-defense action" or whatever the hell you want to call it, in which more children are killed than soliders, no good should come of it. So to propose the idea that the UN could have possibly made a bigger mess of this than the US and Israel did all by themselves, is ludicrous, and frankly, displays a mind in complete denial.

The UN inspectors were doing a fine job of containing Iraq. They didn't find any weapons. Guess what? There were none! The entire world, with the sole exception apparently, of Sean Hannity, knows this now. Outside of Hannity's mind, this is accepted historical fact now. There were no weapons. The inspections worked! Now, it's been obvious for sometime that Hannity is eating too many brownies (the boy's fat, in plain englise), but it is only now becoming apparant that they're hash brownies. We dont' all have to over the happy land edge along with the stoned fat boy though.

What's my "solution" to Iran? Well, how about, let's not invent a problem to start with ok? Think about how well that would have worked with Iraq. But no, you neocons had to go invent this huge threat to freedom, apple pie, virginity, poodle skirts, missionary position sex, and whatever else you all claimed Saddam was a "threat" to. And now, amazingly, instead of being instituionalized, ya'll are still running around screaming "the sky is falling, the sky is falling" about yet another country.

I mean, fool me once, and...well, everyone except for W knows the rest of that.

[Gaffer]

I don't think even Bolton can change the un. Its a corrupt organization that needs to be completely disbanded. Its a big leech that just sucks the life out of everything it touches and gives back nothing.

The first critiera for membership should be the country is a complete demcracy with real and honest elections. Theocracies and dictatorships are not allowed. that includes any country with the democratic republic of in the name. And any country that's army parades in goosestep. It would make for a very small but effective un.

Darla what was france to do to stop the invasion of iraq. Rush in and join the iraq defense. They were supplying iraq with weapons systems and getting oil on the side inspite of the emargo set by the un. russia was also making big bucks from iraq which was why they opposed the war. germany too. There's a long list.They were all making money hand over fist and didn't want to interrupt that flow of cash they had coming in.

If the US controlled the un as you say they would have jumped right in with us as soon as we said we were going in. two thirds of the un are our enemies, the others are friends as long as it serves them to be. There's probably only half dozen countries we can really count on.

The only real power we have in the un is economic. Anyone gives us too much trouble and we cut off trade and aid. which many of them depend on. That's the only real leverage we have.

[Sir Evil]

In fact, the US held out, to give Israel the time it asked them for to finish the job. The problem arose when Hezbollah gave Israel far more than the bargained for, which was a swift kick in the ass. Now, Hezbollah has been streghtened and the perception of Israel has been weakened.


I agree that the US stalled to let Israel more time but not enough. To really think hizbollah gained anything more than a good PR campaign out of this would be naive. They scored points amongst the islamic extremists but it's easy to see who took the majority of the punishment. Hizbollah has merely been embolded for not strengthened, already there are other muslim nations concerned with the situation due the the PR campaign won by hizbollah, it won't last. Lastly though France indeed held up the final peace agreement, it could of, should of been sooner!



This was a lose-lose scenerio for both Bush and Israel. I was watching a talk show today and it was amazing that all around, there was acknowledgement that this was a big loss for both bush and Israel, with righties as different as Patrick Buchanon (a traditional Paleo) and Tony Blankely (a neocon) both agreeing. Buchanon also said that you could see in bush's face that he was angry as hell about it, and Blankely said it didn't do bush's "credibility any good" to be claiming that Hezbollah lost. (poor sob, was actually still under the impression that bush has any credibility to lose I guess). And you know what? I think that generally, no good comes from murdering children, and that in any "war" or "self-defense action" or whatever the hell you want to call it, in which more children are killed than soliders, no good should come of it. So to propose the idea that the UN could have possibly made a bigger mess of this than the US and Israel did all by themselves, is ludicrous, and frankly, displays a mind in complete denial.

I have yet to say that it has been a victory for bush, in fact I think quite the opposite. But by facts it is nothing more than the PR campaign won here.
You wanna lay the blame on the laps of bush and isreal? once again the wonderful UN was residing there how many years? what did that do? This conflict will go on for evermore if the UN has the final say in it. You wanna cry about children being killed, who uses them to shield themselves? were are these so called hizbollah soldiers? today they claim to be a political orginization, tomorrow they claim to be a militia, anyway you slice it they are terrorists. I hate the fact that innocent women and children get killed in these conflicts, but I am smart enough to know that many,many more will die if things are left the way they are, and that includes any peace brokered by the UN!!



The UN inspectors were doing a fine job of containing Iraq. They didn't find any weapons. Guess what? There were none! The entire world, with the sole exception apparently, of Sean Hannity, knows this now. Outside of Hannity's mind, this is accepted historical fact now. There were no weapons. The inspections worked! Now, it's been obvious for sometime that Hannity is eating too many brownies (the boy's fat, in plain englise), but it is only now becoming apparant that they're hash brownies. We dont' all have to over the happy land edge along with the stoned fat boy though.

Really? a fine job indeed! Iraq thumbed their noses to anything the UN has to say, they defied world opinion for years. WMD's? do you have any gauranteed analysis there was never none? How about the claims of soldiers getting sick from depleted uranium? what is uranium used for to begin with? how about the anthrax they could never answer for, vx poisoning? maybe they were all depleted but to think that there is some sort of global proof that they never could of been there is rediculous! Take WMD's out of the scenario and iraq was still a danger to any of it's surrounding countries, hell saddam killed may of his own.



What's my "solution" to Iran? Well, how about, let's not invent a problem to start with ok? Think about how well that would have worked with Iraq. But no, you neocons had to go invent this huge threat to freedom, apple pie, virginity, poodle skirts, missionary position sex, and whatever else you all claimed Saddam was a "threat" to. And now, amazingly, instead of being instituionalized, ya'll are still running around screaming "the sky is falling, the sky is falling" about yet another country.

I mean, fool me once, and...well, everyone except for W knows the rest of that.

LOL, seems you are just a plain fool! Iran is openly claiming for how long now that Israel needs to be obliterated, they have been chanting the death to America for a quarter century now, Nuclear ambitions for peaceful purposes? do you wanna assume so and let the chip fall were they do? No thanks, it does'nt take a genius to realize what Iran wants, and even a fool would no it's nothing to do with peaceful purposes.

[Gaffer]

In fact, the US held out, to give Israel the time it asked them for to finish the job. The problem arose when Hezbollah gave Israel far more than the bargained for, which was a swift kick in the ass. Now, Hezbollah has been streghtened and the perception of Israel has been weakened. This was a lose-lose scenerio for both Bush and Israel. I was watching a talk show today and it was amazing that all around, there was acknowledgement that this was a big loss for both bush and Israel, with righties as different as Patrick Buchanon (a traditional Paleo) and Tony Blankely (a neocon) both agreeing. Buchanon also said that you could see in bush's face that he was angry as hell about it, and Blankely said it didn't do bush's "credibility any good" to be claiming that Hezbollah lost. (poor sob, was actually still under the impression that bush has any credibility to lose I guess). And you know what? I think that generally, no good comes from murdering children, and that in any "war" or "self-defense action" or whatever the hell you want to call it, in which more children are killed than soliders, no good should come of it. So to propose the idea that the UN could have possibly made a bigger mess of this than the US and Israel did all by themselves, is ludicrous, and frankly, displays a mind in complete denial.

The UN inspectors were doing a fine job of containing Iraq. They didn't find any weapons. Guess what? There were none! The entire world, with the sole exception apparently, of Sean Hannity, knows this now. Outside of Hannity's mind, this is accepted historical fact now. There were no weapons. The inspections worked! Now, it's been obvious for sometime that Hannity is eating too many brownies (the boy's fat, in plain englise), but it is only now becoming apparant that they're hash brownies. We dont' all have to over the happy land edge along with the stoned fat boy though.

What's my "solution" to Iran? Well, how about, let's not invent a problem to start with ok? Think about how well that would have worked with Iraq. But no, you neocons had to go invent this huge threat to freedom, apple pie, virginity, poodle skirts, missionary position sex, and whatever else you all claimed Saddam was a "threat" to. And now, amazingly, instead of being instituionalized, ya'll are still running around screaming "the sky is falling, the sky is falling" about yet another country.

I mean, fool me once, and...well, everyone except for W knows the rest of that.

You need to do more than watch cnn to get your info. For one thing the inspectors in iraq were led around in circles and weren't allowed to find anything. They were not doing the job, they were kicked out. There have been miles of documents captured that are still being deciffered and interpretted that show that iraq did have wmd's and that the russians moved them out before the invasion started, because they were mostly russian made. They were moved to syria and some at least went back to russia but its not sure if all of them were taken out or not. The liberal media doesn't cover these stories tho.

yes hezbollah won that little action with Israel, they only had to stay alive till the cease fire to declare victory. You didn't mention the Israeli children killed in that war. You also didn't scknowledge the fact that hezbollah set up their forces among the civilian population to insure plenty of innocents would be killed that they could show on tv and impress people like you with how terrible the Israelis are. Are you aware that all hamas and hezbollah leaders are always surrounded by children whereever they go to keep the Israelis from taking them out. Its a common practice there.

Your solution for iran is to hide your head in the sand and hope they go away.This is the head of the snake, the leader of the islamo-facists. They want to take over the entire middle east. They want to wipe out Israel and then move west. They want nukes to start a nuclear war to bring about the destruction of the world so their 12th imam will return and turn the world into a paradise. This has all be stated publically by the leader of iran.You need to research and read up on things. You have been fooled more than once and your going to continue to be fooled until you get your head out of the sand.

[Sir Evil]

LOL Are you believing this Gaf? inspectors in iraq were shot upon when they came too close, yet they did a good job of keeping things in check?

I dunno, if this is the mindset of a younger generation to come I have to think the futre is looking mighty bleak!

[FUCK THE POLICE]

John Bolton's an idiot who understands nothing about human nature. You have to cuddle up to people to slit their throats, going up to them and saying "I'm going to slit your throat" is just going to make them run away.

[Gaffer]

Yeah this is hilarious. She has to be young with her only news source as cnn. That's all i can figure. She actually believes we are going hunting for another country to go after and that little innocent iran is next. sheeesh

[Sir Evil]

John Bolton's an idiot who understands nothing about human nature. You have to cuddle up to people to slit their throats, going up to them and saying "I'm going to slit your throat" is just going to make them run away.

:eek:

That truly sounds like a politcal figure!

human nature, politics? I see little connection between the two. What is the real driving force behind the hatred for Bolton?

[Damocles]

Let it move to Paris, and just have the US Person on the Council veto everything. France can feel all good about themselves and it will be just as much a waste of time as it is currently...

[Gaffer]

John Bolton's an idiot who understands nothing about human nature. You have to cuddle up to people to slit their throats, going up to them and saying "I'm going to slit your throat" is just going to make them run away.

human nature says if I tell you I'm going to slit your throat I better have a knife to do it with. If I want to slit your throat i will just do it. but if my purpose is to make you fearful and run away then by telling you and you running I have achieved what i wanted.

We don't need a cuddler in the un we need someone that has the balls to say I'm gonna slit your throat.

[Gaffer]

Let it move to Paris, and just have the US Person on the Council veto everything. France can feel all good about themselves and it will be just as much a waste of time as it is currently...

I like that idea.

[Sir Evil]

human nature says if I tell you I'm going to slit your throat I better have a knife to do it with. If I want to slit your throat i will just do it. but if my purpose is to make you fearful and run away then by telling you and you running I have achieved what i wanted.

We don't need a cuddler in the un we need someone that has the balls to say I'm gonna slit your throat.

Damn, I totally missed that point if it is indeed what he meant, but undoubtedly the proper response!

[Damocles]

Location: undisclosed locationville

How's Cheney doing?

[Gaffer]

How's Cheney doing?

He's doing fine, we sit around comparing surgery scars and target shooting. After the crops out back get harvested we will go quail hunting. :rolleyes:

[Damocles]

He's doing fine, we sit around comparing surgery scars and target shooting. After the crops out back get harvested we will go quail hunting. :rolleyes:
LOL. A little advice.... DUCK!

[Gaffer]

I'll just take a liberal with me to stand behind.

[Care4all]

looks like Gaffer and Sir Evil are a "fox news" only type of crowd...the hell with CNN, Fox rules, right!?

The inspectors had free access....with no stumbling blocks or consequences, they wanted to continue doing their job, but were pulled out by the President....so that the President could War with Iraq.

That is the truth.

The Inspectors went back in after the war had completed, with total free access and also confirmed there were no WMD's to be found.

Cheney said: Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us.

LIE

And you guys are still repeating this jargon...you really believe the administration DID NOT manipulate their information to deceive the American People in to being so afraid of a mushroom cloud from Saddam hitting Americans?

I just don't get it?

What are you guys defending...your support for the lies that were given to you that you failed to recognize and see?

Does all the killing of innocent people weigh on you guys, in the least? Especially since you beat the war drums to death on the build up to war?


Ahhhhhhhhhh, this war in Iraq was justified...and that's the story and you all are sticking to it!!! that's it, right?

Well, let's just say, some of us, have seen the light, and disagree with your assessment of the situation.

care

[Care4all]

More than one long time government employee has stated that Bolton tried to bully intelligence analysts to change intelligence info.

Ring a bell?

Does "Iraq" mean anything to you?

This man Bolton deserved firing, not promoting imo.

go to c-span.org archives and review the Senate confirmation hearing for Bolton, IF you really want to know something about Bolton and WHY he should not be confirmed by the Senate for this position....

care

[Care4all]

here....but go to the hearings on this at c-span if you want to know more...

--------------------------------------------------------


http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/print?id=663831

Bolton Appears Headed for Confirmation
Bolton Appears Headed for Confirmation Despite Accusation He Abused Intelligence Officials
By BARRY SCHWEID
The Associated Press
Apr. 12, 2005 - John R. Bolton appeared a step closer to confirmation as ambassador to the United Nations despite scathing testimony Tuesday by a former State Department intelligence chief that he was a "serial abuser" of analysts who disagreed with his hard-line views.

A committee vote to send President Bush's nomination of Bolton, who has frequently dismissed the United Nations as irrelevant and misguided, to the full Senate could come as early as Thursday, depending on whether his Democratic foes request a few days to review State Department documents they sought to have declassified.

Carl Ford Jr., a former chief at the State Department's bureau of intelligence and research, denounced Bolton as a "kiss-up, kick-down sort of guy" who directed an abusive tirade at analyst Christian P. Westermann for questioning whether Cuba was developing biological and chemical weapons.

But the pivotal Republican on the Foreign Relations Committee, Sen. Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island, said he was "still inclined" to vote to confirm Bolton, who is now undersecretary of state for arms control.

The Constitution gives Bush considerable leeway to name ambassadors and "I see the bar as very high" for rejecting his choices, Chafee told reporters after the hearing was adjourned.

Ford was the only witness called besides Bolton, who testified for more than seven hours Monday, although Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., told a reporter a "whole slew" of U.S. officials could have echoed Ford's accusations of harassment.

With Republicans in the majority, Bolton's nomination could be approved by the committee Thursday or early next week. Bolton was probably more vulnerable in the committee because Republicans outnumber Democrats there only 10-8. They have a safer margin, 55 to 44 with one independent, in the full Senate.

Democrats said Bolton's mistreatment of lower-level officials who would not bend to his hard-line views was underscored by Ford, who appeared voluntarily as a witness to support the accusations of harassment.

Praised by Sen. Paul Sarbanes, D-Md., for "standing up," Ford said that while he is a Republican conservative and a devout admirer of Vice President Dick Cheney, he "feels like a target" for challenging a senior Republican.

"I have never seen anyone quite like Mr. Bolton," Ford testified under oath. "He abuses his authority with little people."

Contradicting Bolton's assertion Monday that he never tried to have officials who disagreed with him discharged, Ford said Bolton tried to have Westermann fired. "I had my own confrontations with Bolton," Ford said, but added that abusing an official on a much lower level was a different matter.

Reflecting on the testimony, Dodd said in an interview, "If this isn't enough I don't know what you can do" to derail the Bolton nomination. But he said he had not been told that any Republican would oppose confirmation.

The chairman, Sen. Richard Lugar, R-Ind., said the "paramount issue" was giving President Bush the nominee he wants to undertake reform at the United Nations. "Bluntness may not be very good diplomacy, but on occasion it may be required," Lugar said as the hearing drew to a close.

Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., who led the fight to block the nomination, responded angrily to Ford's accusation of mistreatment. Anytime a senior official abuses a lower-level one, he said, "that's just not acceptable."

Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., said it was not an isolated incident, since Bolton had harassed at least three officials who disagreed with the extent of threats he thought Cuba and other countries posed.

Calling Bolton a "bully," Boxer said, "I think Mr. Bolton needs anger management at a minimum and he does not deserve to be promoted" to the U.N. post.

[Cancel7]

looks like Gaffer and Sir Evil are a "fox news" only type of crowd...the hell with CNN, Fox rules, right!?

The inspectors had free access....with no stumbling blocks or consequences, they wanted to continue doing their job, but were pulled out by the President....so that the President could War with Iraq.

That is the truth.

The Inspectors went back in after the war had completed, with total free access and also confirmed there were no WMD's to be found.

Cheney said: Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us.

LIE

And you guys are still repeating this jargon...you really believe the administration DID NOT manipulate their information to deceive the American People in to being so afraid of a mushroom cloud from Saddam hitting Americans?

I just don't get it?

What are you guys defending...your support for the lies that were given to you that you failed to recognize and see?

Does all the killing of innocent people weigh on you guys, in the least? Especially since you beat the war drums to death on the build up to war?


Ahhhhhhhhhh, this war in Iraq was justified...and that's the story and you all are sticking to it!!! that's it, right?

Well, let's just say, some of us, have seen the light, and disagree with your assessment of the situation.

care

Care, you have two guys sitting around giggling over a "girl" because they still believe weapons of mass destruction were there!

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at such willful ignorance, but I do know that they look like the utter fools that they are.

Pathetic bastards...CNN...I watch very little television news. I'm actuallly literate, that's why I'm aware of what the rest of the literate world is aware of: THERE WERE NO WMDS.

And anyone who is still arguing that there were? They live in an alternate universe where the only reality is the bush/Hannity reality and they are best left there, drooling into their grape nehi and scratching their private parts...until the next episode of Hannity and the corpse we dug up and slapped a liberal tag. When I think of all the of the people who are dead, and whom are still yet to die because of drooling morons like these, and yet they continue to take up air...sad.

[Gaffer]

well darla I believe you need to read more than what moveondotorg has to say and the other left wingbloggers. But I know you won't, so no sense in arguing that with you.

c-span does have some interesing things on it. Of course if you pull out only what the democraps have to say and only look at the anti-Bush crowd you do get a one sided view.

I do watch FOX because I can get more factual news there than I can from the other media. but I use it as a point of referrence to research more on what they report. I am not a Hannity fan. personnally i think he's too nice to the liberals.

As for the wmds, they were there. The russians removed them. The documents are there and still being analyzed. Not by the government but by private organizations including FOX news. Bush has made a lot of mistakes and the captured documents I think was a major one. They also have satelite photos of columns of trucks crossing into syria just before the war began. Why the administration didn't follow up on this and release the info is beyond me. The interpreted documents are slowly being released and show that the russians moved the weapons. How many were returned to russia and how many ended up in syrian hands is unknown.

Whether Bolton is a prick or not does not concern me. Whether he can do the job in the un, a useless corrupt organization, does. All that is shown on c-span is the democrats and aformer underling telling what a prick he was. Nowhere do they talk about what he actually did in his job. In what way did he fail to do his job and not accomplish things. Not all bosses are loveable, you don't accomplish anything by being loveable and liked.

I'd rather see a prick representing us in the un than a pussy.

[uscitizen]

Any person in congress that supports Bolton loses my support.

[Sir Evil]

looks like Gaffer and Sir Evil are a "fox news" only type of crowd...the hell with CNN, Fox rules, right!?

The inspectors had free access....with no stumbling blocks or consequences, they wanted to continue doing their job, but were pulled out by the President....so that the President could War with Iraq.

Holy shitbrick bonanza's, where do ya all get your info from? and ya claim us to be one sided fox watchers? how lame!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:



The Inspectors went back in after the war had completed, with total free access and also confirmed there were no WMD's to be found.

Negative, they were fired upon and asked to leave the country!



Cheney said: Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us.

Oh I see, Cheney now is where the intel derived from? Also, do you have some simply irrefutible evidence that they never did exists there, or is it they they have not been found to the grade and amount of your likings?



And you guys are still repeating this jargon...you really believe the administration DID NOT manipulate their information to deceive the American People in to being so afraid of a mushroom cloud from Saddam hitting Americans?

No, I think they completely made it up do steal the oil! :rolleyes:



What are you guys defending...your support for the lies that were given to you that you failed to recognize and see?

Does all the killing of innocent people weigh on you guys, in the least? Especially since you beat the war drums to death on the build up to war?


Ahhhhhhhhhh, this war in Iraq was justified...and that's the story and you all are sticking to it!!! that's it, right?

Well, let's just say, some of us, have seen the light, and disagree with your assessment of the situation.

care

Ya seen the light huh? are you too going to start chanting the call for Gore?

LOL, you shitbricks have all the answers, unfortuantely none of them seem to answer the proper questions. Go ahead and see your light, see how the bush administration stole the oil, how they masterminded 911, how they are creating more terrorists, and all that good stuff.

[uscitizen]

Yeah this is hilarious. She has to be young with her only news source as cnn. That's all i can figure. She actually believes we are going hunting for another country to go after and that little innocent iran is next. sheeesh

Ohh so now that Rather is gone and couric is in charge the next target is CNN ?
Hmm if not for CBS we would still have Mcarthy in there. Bu then that seems to be just what the Busheeple would like, or at least think they would till it bites their butt :)

[Sir Evil]

Care, you have two guys sitting around giggling over a "girl" because they still believe weapons of mass destruction were there!

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at such willful ignorance, but I do know that they look like the utter fools that they are.

Pathetic bastards...CNN...I watch very little television news. I'm actuallly literate, that's why I'm aware of what the rest of the literate world is aware of: THERE WERE NO WMDS.

And anyone who is still arguing that there were? They live in an alternate universe where the only reality is the bush/Hannity reality and they are best left there, drooling into their grape nehi and scratching their private parts...until the next episode of Hannity and the corpse we dug up and slapped a liberal tag. When I think of all the of the people who are dead, and whom are still yet to die because of drooling morons like these, and yet they continue to take up air...sad.

Darla please explain the post then of one of yer fellow shitbricks here on how soldiers in iraq are getting sick from the depleted uranium, then explain what uranium is used for, then tell me how you can have it both ways.

So you are a literate, impressive! do you do most of your reading on blogs or what, where is all this factual info coming from?

Simply provide a link from a reputable source giving unrefutable eveidence that WMD's never existed in iraq, and I will eat crow here as long as you want!

Fact is that many like yourself here wanna accuse me, and Gaffer of being one sided fox watchers when simply we are not. Seems quite the opposite if anything as you all keep implying that we are something that you have no clue about. You all very narrow mindedly hate bush, and automatically classify us as major supporters because we have a different point of view.

It's all obvious to see who the one sided people are here.....:rolleyes:

[Sir Evil]

Ohh so now that Rather is gone and couric is in charge the next target is CNN ?
Hmm if not for CBS we would still have Mcarthy in there. Bu then that seems to be just what the Busheeple would like, or at least think they would till it bites their butt :)

Hey ya ol' fart, If ya have'nt noticed the shitbricks instantly accusing us of one way fox watchers then I guess you too are one of those clown who see it one way. "it's good for us but not for you"? C'mon, I expected better from an ol' fart!

[Sir Evil]

Any person in congress that supports Bolton loses my support.

I'm sure they will all take that into consideration!:shock:

[uscitizen]

Hey ya ol' fart, If ya have'nt noticed the shitbricks instantly accusing us of one way fox watchers then I guess you too are one of those clown who see it one way. "it's good for us but not for you"? C'mon, I expected better from an ol' fart!
Shrivel,
Yep this old fart has seen this same game before, but not to this depth. I actually thought the American people had more sense collectively, but alas....

[Sir Evil]

Shrivel,
Yep this old fart has seen this same game before, but not to this depth. I actually thought the American people had more sense collectively, but alas....

Explain yourself OF, can you tell me why the selection is so bad for the American people?

[uscitizen]

If you can't figure it out then you are part of the problem.

[Sir Evil]

If you can't figure it out then you are part of the problem.

Ok I guess I am part of the problem but still not a good excuse to have nothing to offer other than what you have so far for why he is a bad candidate. Sounds to me that you would just add the typical left handed rhetoric. No big surprise though...

[uscitizen]

Many threads and news articles have been presented on why bolton Sucks. I don't feel the need to elaborate. If you are still the way you are after reading them then it is a waste of time debating this issue with you.

[Care4all]

Darla please explain the post then of one of yer fellow shitbricks here on how soldiers in iraq are getting sick from the depleted uranium, then explain what uranium is used for, then tell me how you can have it both ways.


Sir Evil,

May I ask what you are implying here? We, the USA, dropped bunker buster bombs that contained depleted uranium, and this is how our guys have gotten sick... from our own ammunitions.

Are you saying that YOU DID NOT KNOW THIS? I'll get you a link if you haven't...or two or three or four links....???

Care

[Sir Evil]

Many threads and news articles have been presented on why bolton Sucks. I don't feel the need to elaborate. If you are still the way you are after reading them then it is a waste of time debating this issue with you.

See there is the difference between me and you, I need no opinion piece posted by this news source, or another news source to form my own opinion. I don't rely on a copy & pasted article to express my own opinion either. It's called having thought's of your own, you know, something original? I know that don't happen round' here too much but ya should try it sometime, the freedom of your own thought's is a wonderful thing!

[Care4all]

Let's hear it in YOUR WORDS Sir Evil on why Bolton is a good candidate for the UN position and deserves this kind of promotion.

[Sir Evil]

Sir Evil,

May I ask what you are implying here? We, the USA, dropped bunker buster bombs that contained depleted uranium, and this is how our guys have gotten sick... from our own ammunitions.

Are you saying that YOU DID NOT KNOW THIS? I'll get you a link if you haven't...or two or three or four links....???

Care

LOL, what on earth would be the purpose of filling a bomb with depleted uranium? I think if they needed to lace a bunker buster with something it need not be depleted. Maybe I am just dumb on the subject, it's possible, and I'll be the first to admit so, but please direct me to a relliable source of info on that one!

Now with that particular part of the story out of the way as I simply brought it up as it was posted here somewhere, can you also direct me to any definitive source that the intelligence was manipulated, that there is gauranteed analysis that wmd's never existed in iraq? or is it by your better judgement that this is the way to see it?

[Damocles]

People do not get sick from depleted Uranium unless they are attempting to recast it without proper protection. It does not cause illness when it is picked up, held, used...

[Care4all]

People do not get sick from depleted Uranium unless they are attempting to recast it without proper protection. It does not cause illness when it is picked up, held, used...

I beg to differ with you....Gulf war syndrone is more than likely from Du and there was an article about a week ago on this site or the other one, about this very subject....

our government may be denying any ills from this just like they did for Agent orange for over 25 years after vietnam, but stories4u is dead and my father is on his third cancer, NOW all attributed to the agent orange exposure he got while serving in Nam.

[Sir Evil]

Let's hear it in YOUR WORDS Sir Evil on why Bolton is a good candidate for the UN position and deserves this kind of promotion.

Fair enough! I like the selection of Bolton not the promotion as you would call it.
I simply like the fact that he knows of the corruption exisitng within the UN, and knows that it is an orginization in need of an overhaul in order to function properly. I think his background is decent enough to provide the right insight for the psotion as well.

Honestly I was unaware of much of his background initially but liked the selection more after a bit of studying.

Now Care, please answer my question to you in your own words that I aked previously please.

[Sir Evil]

I beg to differ with you....Gulf war syndrone is more than likely from Du and there was an article about a week ago on this site or the other one, about this very subject....

our government may be denying any ills from this just like they did for Agent orange for over 25 years after vietnam, but stories4u is dead and my father is on his third cancer, NOW all attributed to the agent orange exposure he got while serving in Nam.

Again Care, start by answering my question put forth to you above before jumping off to a different one.

[uscitizen]

See there is the difference between me and you, I need no opinion piece posted by this news source, or another news source to form my own opinion. I don't rely on a copy & pasted article to express my own opinion either. It's called having thought's of your own, you know, something original? I know that don't happen round' here too much but ya should try it sometime, the freedom of your own thought's is a wonderful thing!

LOL, I thought I did have origional thoughts and do to just accept political talking points as fact.
Watchout about that freedom of thoughts thingy shrivel, you will have the busheeple all over you with that kind of treasonous talk.

[Sir Evil]

LOL, I thought I did have origional thoughts and do to just accept political talking points as fact.
Watchout about that freedom of thoughts thingy shrivel, you will have the busheeple all over you with that kind of treasonous talk.

Well so be it, I have nothing to hide, I have nothing but my opinions for why I lean the direction I do, and at least I offer them up without using stats or polls, or copy & paste jobs. Now if that there autmatically makes me a huge bush supporter, well then once again so be it. I have'nt the time nor the will to expalin in detail my political beliefs to people here that will once again autmatically classify me because they have stereotypical thoughts.

[IHateGovernment]

I don't expect much from Bolton. I doubt he will even try to reform the UN as is needed but will simply try to stymie and undermine it as he has voiced utter contempt for the body.

Perhaps some would see this as preferable but I can assure you it will not improve the body at least.

Frankly I don't care much about Bolton anyway whoever is in that postion is going to be a mouth piece for the president so it doesn't matter.

[uscitizen]

Well so be it, I have nothing to hide, I have nothing but my opinions for why I lean the direction I do, and at least I offer them up without using stats or polls, or copy & paste jobs. Now if that there autmatically makes me a huge bush supporter, well then once again so be it. I have'nt the time nor the will to expalin in detail my political beliefs to people here that will once again autmatically classify me because they have stereotypical thoughts.

I have classified you because of the content of your posts on here and those other poseters I know that you are supporting. You are known by what you say and those you asscociate with.

[Care4all]

To answer your question first....

I watched the hearing very closely....I am now a home maker so, I have the time to do such...

I did not think that he was the type of person that would represent me well, based on the way he treated the people below him....which you can read a little about in the article that was posted but honestly this article did not do justice in describing the situation.

Another head, testified against Bolton and how he treated his emplyees that came to a different conclusion than Bolton in their intelligence analysis and Bolton tried to get them to change their view or he wanted them fired...

Maybe it is because I am a female, but I was extremely turned off by him and his answers and the testimony against him by several other subordinents.

I also was concerned with his willingness to CHANGE intelligence reports to suit HIS needs....

In addition to this, I heard about his comments in the past regarding the UN.

I thought they were very juvenile and did not represent what I would expect someone of this high level in gvt to be like. I would have expected him to keep his MOUTH SHUT on what his goals for the UN and NOT HAVE SHOWN HIS CARDS the way he did and cause the controversy that was caused regarding his statement...basically, more diplomatic...

I agree that the UN needs repair, but I don't agree that John Bolton is the best man to get the UN working in our favor again, as it once did....when it was our "tool" to use....

Certainly President Bush can pick a better man for the job, that appears to be more diplomatic and sympathetic towards the UN....EVEN IF he really is not....this administration has stuck their foot in their mouth more than once and have shown their cards before the game is done, one too many times imo, and this is just another one...

care

[Damocles]

I beg to differ with you....Gulf war syndrone is more than likely from Du and there was an article about a week ago on this site or the other one, about this very subject....

our government may be denying any ills from this just like they did for Agent orange for over 25 years after vietnam, but stories4u is dead and my father is on his third cancer, NOW all attributed to the agent orange exposure he got while serving in Nam.
Just because there was once something they denied doesn't make every denial a lie. It gets repetitive. Yes, I don't trust the government either, but the radiation cannot be released until the metal is melted, and when it resets it is once again like any other metal. That is the nature of Du... Just saying it was because of this is ridiculous. There is fare more evidence that Gulf War Syndrome is from shots they were given that were not given to those of us who were say... oh... russian translators at the time, than there is that it was all caused by Du...

[Care4all]

please continue this article at the link....


U.S. Soldiers Are Sick of It
http://tinyurl.com/ma3kc

Associated Press 10:20 AM Aug, 12, 2006

NEW YORK -- It takes at least 10 minutes and a large glass of orange juice to wash down all the pills -- morphine, methadone, a muscle relaxant, an antidepressant, a stool softener. Viagra for sexual dysfunction. Valium for his nerves.

Four hours later, Herbert Reed will swallow another 15 mg of morphine to cut the pain clenching every part of his body. He will do it twice more before the day is done.

Since he left a bombed-out train depot in Iraq, his gums bleed. There is more blood in his urine, and still more in his stool. Bright light hurts his eyes. A tumor has been removed from his thyroid. Rashes erupt everywhere, itching so badly they seem to live inside his skin. Migraines cleave his skull. His joints ache, grating like door hinges in need of oil.

There is something massively wrong with Herbert Reed, though no one is sure what it is. He believes he knows the cause, but he cannot convince anyone caring for him that the military's new favorite weapon has made him terrifyingly sick.

In the sprawling bureaucracy of the Department of Veterans Affairs, he has many caretakers. An internist, a neurologist, a pain-management specialist, a psychologist, an orthopedic surgeon and a dermatologist. He cannot function without his stupefying arsenal of medications, but they exact a high price.

"I'm just a zombie walking around," he says.

Reed believes depleted uranium has contaminated him and his life. He now walks point in a vitriolic war over the Pentagon's arsenal of it -- thousands of shells and hundreds of tanks coated with the metal that is radioactive, chemically toxic, and nearly twice as dense as lead.

A shell coated with depleted uranium pierces a tank like a hot knife through butter, exploding on impact into a charring inferno. As tank armor, it repels artillery assaults. It also leaves behind a fine radioactive dust with a half-life of 4.5 billion years.

Depleted uranium is the garbage left from producing enriched uranium for nuclear weapons and energy plants. It is 60 percent as radioactive as natural uranium. The United States has an estimated 1.5 billion pounds of it, sitting in hazardous waste storage sites across the country. Meaning it is plentiful and cheap as well as highly effective.

Reed says he unknowingly breathed DU dust while living with his unit in Samawah, Iraq. He was med-evaced out in July 2003, nearly unable to walk because of lightning-strike pains from herniated discs in his spine. Then began a strange series of symptoms he'd never experienced in his previously healthy life.

At Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C, he ran into a buddy from his unit. And another, and another, and in the tedium of hospital life between doctor visits and the dispensing of meds, they began to talk.

"We all had migraines. We all felt sick," Reed says. "The doctors said, 'It's all in your head.' "

Then the medic from their unit showed up. He too, was suffering. That made eight sick soldiers from the 442nd Military Police, an Army National Guard unit made up of mostly cops and correctional officers from the New York area.

But the medic knew something the others didn't. Dutch marines had taken over the abandoned train depot dubbed Camp Smitty, which was surrounded by tank skeletons, unexploded ordnance and shell casings. They'd brought radiation-detection devices. The readings were so hot, the Dutch set up camp in the middle of the desert rather than live in the station ruins.

"We got on the Internet," Reed said, "and we started researching depleted uranium."

Story continued on Page 2 »

[b]
please continue to read this article at the link provided above before comments on what you think....

[IHateGovernment]

Care read this article it comes from the World Health Organization

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs257/en/

Depleted Uranium doesn't appear to be particularly dangerous unless their is very high exposure.

[Sir Evil]

Care - I read this article before and can't say anything about refutable evidence supporting the claim that this is something that came directly from a bunker buster bomb, did I miss that part? I dunno but either way when I came upon this part:


At the other end are a collection of conspiracy-theorists and internet proselytizers who say using such weapons constitutes genocide. Two of the most vocal opponents recently suggested that a depleted-uranium missile, not a hijacked jetliner, struck the Pentagon in 2001.


I kinda realized there was'nt going to be too much to the article that would be considered reliable.

[Sir Evil]

I have classified you because of the content of your posts on here and those other poseters I know that you are supporting.

Of course you do, it's the sterotypical thing you all do here when someone has an opposing view!. Oh, as far as supporting other posters here, it's not something I do, in fact I think you are implying the ones that I may agree with but they posts their own opinions,and hardly need my support.



You are known by what you say and those you asscociate with.


What are we in grade school? :rolleyes:

I truly expected better from someone who claims to be of the older generation, but easy enough to see by the like cooments here that the elders are quite capable themselves of going along with a cause just because it sounds good.

[IHateGovernment]

Sir you would probably benefit in your credibility if you toned down the shitbrick comments.

[Sir Evil]

Sir you would probably benefit in your credibility if you toned down the shitbrick comments.

Probably so, but if anyone really takes it to heart then I need not seek any credibility around here. :cof1:

Truly though if you notice I leave that one mostly for those who don't bother to reply with any credible source or a decent opinion of their own, so on that note I won't gain any credibilty with them either because they don't have any of their own!:cool:

[uscitizen]

Of course you do, it's the sterotypical thing you all do here when someone has an opposing view!. Oh, as far as supporting other posters here, it's not something I do, in fact I think you are implying the ones that I may agree with but they posts their own opinions,and hardly need my support.



What are we in grade school? :rolleyes:

I truly expected better from someone who claims to be of the older generation, but easy enough to see by the like cooments here that the elders are quite capable themselves of going along with a cause just because it sounds good.

Still in grade school, yes even after most of my life, this is true. Your disagreement tells me even more about you.

[uscitizen]

On the DU thing. Kinda hard to prove when the gummit stonewalls and covers up or sits on any evidence.
Heck we still have the same thing going on from our early nuke tests, the govt will never accept responsibility for their actions on this issue.

There was a good show on about this subject regarding the British nuke above ground tests in Australia. Areas that people were in then for the tests are now marked with unsafe radiation signs. but the govt still denies it was unsafe for the people that were there at the time of the blasts.

[Sir Evil]

Still in grade school, yes even after most of my life, this is true. Your disagreement tells me even more about you.

Quite cutting the cheese and cut me a break with your silly comments!

If ya wanna make me guitly by association fine, but at least add something debatable or original to your opinions so we can at least get a frame of what YOU may think instead of who you wanna claim to be associated with.

Can we do that pops?

[Sir Evil]

On the DU thing. Kinda hard to prove when the gummit stonewalls and covers up or sits on any evidence.
Heck we still have the same thing going on from our early nuke tests, the govt will never accept responsibility for their actions on this issue.

There was a good show on about this subject regarding the British nuke above ground tests in Australia. Areas that people were in then for the tests are now marked with unsafe radiation signs. but the govt still denies it was unsafe for the people that were there at the time of the blasts.


Superb, you found a good show that may expose something shady by the government. Anythink factual or was it speculation?

Oh, and doe these terms of government responsibilty apply all the time or only when it seems deemable for your cause? If they apply the whole time then why not move to a country where you feel you can trust everything you hear from the government?

[uscitizen]

I just did on the DU issue above you last post.

[uscitizen]

Superb, you found a good show that may expose something shady by the government. Anythink factual or was it speculation?

Oh, and doe these terms of government responsibilty apply all the time or only when it seems deemable for your cause? If they apply the whole time then why not move to a country where you feel you can trust everything you hear from the government?

LOL, it was factual except for comments from people that were there. That would be their perspectives and recollections, but there were plenty of facts as well. Like how the govt lost their medical records, 15, 000 of them ?

I don't think you can trust any govt very much. If you do then you are mistaken.
Just my opinion though. Is this board only restricted to facts ?

[Sir Evil]

LOL, it was factual except for comments from people that were there. That would be their perspectives and recollections, but there were plenty of facts as well. Like how the govt lost their medical records, 15, 000 of them ?

I don't think you can trust any govt very much. If you do then you are mistaken.
Just my opinion though. Is this board only restricted to facts ?

Well facts are an excellent starting point for any debatable discussion but opinions are worthy as well.

Now see, I agree with you on trusting governments but on the other hand I ain't compalining what they are supposedly doing seeing as I don't have a legitimate fact to proof it! I trust my government will do what it deems fit for it's own country, what you and I don't know will always be something that exisits out there.

[IHateGovernment]

I trust my government will do what it deems fit for it's own country

I trust my government will do what it deems fit for itself which of course is gaining more power for its favored members.

[Sir Evil]

I trust my government will do what it deems fit for itself which of course is gaining more power for its favored members.

Absolutely! another given that happens on both sides of the fence.

[Care4all]

Care - I read this article before and can't say anything about refutable evidence supporting the claim that this is something that came directly from a bunker buster bomb, did I miss that part? I dunno but either way when I came upon this part:


I kinda realized there was'nt going to be too much to the article that would be considered reliable.

sir evil, you can't be that obtuse....

The article does mention where these soldiers got their du contamination from....read it again.

And, that little clip from the article that you are pointing out was COMPLETELY TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT BY YOU, just to try to make some sort of valid point I presume? :(

The writer of this article was speaking about how there are all kinds of crazys out there on this issue, on the right...saying you basically can eat DU for breakfast and the left with the part you posted....

So exactly how did this comment discredit this entire article?

Don't you think you were being a little "quick" on this response opf yours?

And in addition to this, I may have missedyour answer to this because I had to step away and all hell broke loose on this thread, but .... are you saying that the usa did NOT DROP any bombs containing Du and you think that our soldiers have uranium in their urine because they came in contact with Saddam hussein's WMD collection or something like that...????

What exactly do YOU BELIEVE here? I guess I am confused?

care

[Sir Evil]

sir evil, you can't be that obtuse....


The article does mention where these soldiers got their du contamination from....read it again.

I guess I am, I missed anything in the article about bunker busters..



And, that little clip from the article that you are pointing out was COMPLETELY TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT BY YOU, just to try to make some sort of valid point I presume? :(

How did I take it out of context? I quoted what it said word for word and expressed my opinion on its credibilty.




The writer of this article was speaking about how there are all kinds of crazys out there on this issue, on the right...saying you basically can eat DU for breakfast and the left with the part you posted....

Precisely, the article plays right into what you wanna believe, that's fin but it's not what I choose to.



So exactly how did this comment discredit this entire article?

Again I did'nt say it discredits the entire article, well more or less said that I don't find it to be very credible when the comment I quoted in question is even mentioned.



Don't you think you were being a little "quick" on this response opf yours?

Not at all, I still fail to see the unrefutable evidence of this article. If you would like I can find a source to refute what was said in that article, and then you too would be all over it that it is just a bunch of bs!



And in addition to this, I may have missedyour answer to this because I had to step away and all hell broke loose on this thread, but .... are you saying that the usa did NOT DROP any bombs containing Du and you think that our soldiers have uranium in their urine because they came in contact with Saddam hussein's WMD collection or something like that...????

What exactly do YOU BELIEVE here? I guess I am confused?

care

Ok, last time now as I have already suggested this a few times within the thread. Find me an article that has gauranteed analysis, irrefutible evidence that iraq had never, nor at the time in question had wmd's...

Fact is you want to believe that it would be way off the wall for one of our soldiers to get sick from anything in iraq because was a swell guy, and we were lead to war on all lies.... I say present the evidence because I would tend to believe the intelligence before I would believe saddam, it's that simple!

Oh, and do you get a lot of your source of info from this site?

[uscitizen]

Believing the intelligence or Sadam ? Whazzup with that strawman ?
If Bush had just waited 6 months all this would not have happened.

[Sir Evil]

Believing the intelligence or Sadam ? Whazzup with that strawman ?
If Bush had just waited 6 months all this would not have happened.

Is that the best you have to offer pops? C'mon your likeminded agrred to this in the begining too. It would of happened sooner or later and you would of came to the same exact conclusion if it did'nt turn out just swell! Well then again I guess had some you prefered in office made the decision you would probably be ranting how on track things are..

[Care4all]

I guess I am, I missed anything in the article about bunker busters..


How did I take it out of context? I quoted what it said word for word and expressed my opinion on its credibilty.



Precisely, the article plays right into what you wanna believe, that's fin but it's not what I choose to.


Again I did'nt say it discredits the entire article, well more or less said that I don't find it to be very credible when the comment I quoted in question is even mentioned.


Not at all, I still fail to see the unrefutable evidence of this article. If you would like I can find a source to refute what was said in that article, and then you too would be all over it that it is just a bunch of bs!



Ok, last time now as I have already suggested this a few times within the thread. Find me an article that has gauranteed analysis, irrefutible evidence that iraq had never, nor at the time in question had wmd's...

Fact is you want to believe that it would be way off the wall for one of our soldiers to get sick from anything in iraq because was a swell guy, and we were lead to war on all lies.... I say present the evidence because I would tend to believe the intelligence before I would believe saddam, it's that simple!

Oh, and do you get a lot of your source of info from this site?

let me guess...the associated press is not a good source for you because they mentioned in their article that there are people out there at the pentegon that say you can eat DU for breakfast and it wouldn't harm you and those that think the the twin towers was hit by a DU missle on the other side of the aisle....makes this article unreliable.....but oh, if it came from FOX, it for sure would be credible in your book?

you are being silly....just plain silly!

And what is your point about the DU bombs, that they are NOT the same bombs as bunker busters? all this dancing of yours is making my head spin...do all of you republicans go to the same school to learn all these moves and spins?

Do some reading of your own... I don't see you supplying ANY SOURCES what so ever, to back up any of your (imo :) )WRONG claims, but we are suppose to think that you have something truely credible to say? NOT! ;)

give us some links to YOUR WMD CLAIMS...backing up what YOU say about it.

Give us some links to the gulf war 1 and 2 sick.... that you say are not sick from the 130 du bombs we dropped in this war or the 250 Du bombs we dropped in gulf war 1 that has caused these men to be sick...and proof or even an opine of anyone that says they are sick because of saddam's wmds...(I'll be anxiously awaiting that one! lol)
care

[Sir Evil]

If Bush had just waited 6 months all this would not have happened.


Really, another measely 6 months! hell we only waited 13 years for saddam to comply what's another 6 months right?:rolleyes:

[uscitizen]

You just don't understand me very much at all do ya evil ?
I worship no one. I question everyone.

[Sir Evil]

You just don't understand me very much at all do ya evil ?
I worship no one. I question everyone.

It's a good way to be! Perhaps I don't understan ya though, so splain me what another 6 months buys on the iraq issue?

[uscitizen]

The inspectors would have had time to verify no WMD's. so no invasion.

[Sir Evil]

The inspectors would have had time to verify no WMD's. so no invasion.

Ok, well I don't wanna argue your point, but the inspectors were unable to complete inspections, Kay has said on many occasions that he was not getting the cooperation needed to complete these inspections. Kay himself was against US position on this to begin with, but that came from the mouth of the source, he said on numerous occasiions that without the cooperation that complete inspection would be a tough thing.

[uscitizen]

You got a link for that evil ?
Or is that just another rectangular piece of excrement ?

[Sir Evil]

You got a link for that evil ?
Or is that just another rectangular piece of excrement ?
Well if that is what you want I'll go dig one up!

[uscitizen]

I am sure you don't need to dig one up, they are piled high around you :)

[Care4all]

Ok, well I don't wanna argue your point, but the inspectors were unable to complete inspections, Kay has said on many occasions that he was not getting the cooperation needed to complete these inspections. Kay himself was against US position on this to begin with, but that came from the mouth of the source, he said on numerous occasiions that without the cooperation that complete inspection would be a tough thing.

do you just make up this crap? link please.....and SOMETHING RECENT from Kay....pretty please, to back this spin of yours up....

but a link, just might show your DELIBERATE ignorance on this issue....so i don't expect to see one, not a recent one!

come on....you can keep spinning forever without some facts shown....!!!

it's not fair!

care

[Sir Evil]

Ok here is a link after a two second search, even though it is not something that helps the argument of wmd's in iraq it states the point I was making about the cooperation:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/120503E.shtml

Care - good of you to jump in and request something current from Kaye seeing as he made the statement at the end of the time they had to inspect.:rolleyes:

[Sir Evil]

do you just make up this crap? link please.....and SOMETHING RECENT from Kay....pretty please, to back this spin of yours up....

but a link, just might show your DELIBERATE ignorance on this issue....so i don't expect to see one, not a recent one!

come on....you can keep spinning forever without some facts shown....!!!

it's not fair!

care

Coming from someone who quotes an entire article from wired news as an argument?

[Sir Evil]

Ok, upon reading some other articles I was wrong on the name, it was Hans Blix that stated iraq was not cooperating!

coming from cnn:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/30/sprj.irq.wrap/index.html

[FUCK THE POLICE]

human nature says if I tell you I'm going to slit your throat I better have a knife to do it with. If I want to slit your throat i will just do it. but if my purpose is to make you fearful and run away then by telling you and you running I have achieved what i wanted.

We don't need a cuddler in the un we need someone that has the balls to say I'm gonna slit your throat.

Bullies may get a little lunch change now and again, but who gets the girl? Not an ugly, stupid bully like John Bolton. It's much better to manipulate and get what you want than to "have balls" just so you can feel manly and get nothing out of it.

[Cypress]

do you just make up this crap? link please.....and SOMETHING RECENT from Kay....pretty please, to back this spin of yours up....

but a link, just might show your DELIBERATE ignorance on this issue....so i don't expect to see one, not a recent one!

come on....you can keep spinning forever without some facts shown....!!!

it's not fair!

care

Here you go Care:

Blix: Iraq Showing New Signs of Real Cooperation

Tuesday, February 25, 2003
Fox News

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,79611,00.html

[Care4all]

Here you go Care:

Blix: Iraq Showing New Signs of Real Cooperation

Tuesday, February 25, 2003
Fox News

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,79611,00.html

yes cypress, that's how i remember it!

[Care4all]

Bullies may get a little lunch change now and again, but who gets the girl? Not an ugly, stupid bully like John Bolton. It's much better to manipulate and get what you want than to "have balls" just so you can feel manly and get nothing out of it.

i agree, and you are just wayyyy too smart for your britches sometimes! ;)

[Care4all]

Coming from someone who quotes an entire article from wired news as an argument?
i linked that article from the associated press for your benefit and lazy ass sir evil....you should be thanking me for doing YOUR legwork WORK for ya! :D

[Sir Evil]

i linked that article from the associated press for your benefit and lazy ass sir evil....you should be thanking me for doing YOUR legwork WORK for ya! :D

Ummm, funny that when ya click on the link it takes ya to wired? am I the only one getting the link that way?

What leg work? I didn't start this thread about confirming John Bolton, and then turn it into the Iraq issue, I did'nt ask upon you the particular piece of news, I was asked to provide a link to what I said about Kay stating the lack of cooperation, then I admitted my mistake on the name and provided a link about what I was speaking of. You chose to remember what the other link corresponding with Blix as the way you remember it, so are you now stating that fox has it right and cnn was wrong?:confused:

Oh well Guess I am just a lazy ass for not interperating things the way you do...

[Sir Evil]

Oh, and what was that you were saying care about DELBERATE ignorance, and putting a spin on things???

[Annie]

I think this whole segue came from confusing David Kay with Scott Ritter? Forgive me if I missed someone making that point.

[Sir Evil]

I think this whole segue came from confusing David Kay with Scott Ritter? Forgive me if I missed someone making that point.

Hey now, you started the thread but don't go taking my thunder! have'nt you noticed the way I twisted it all out of whack, and took the original article way out of context! :cof1:

[Annie]

Hey now, you started the thread but don't go taking my thunder! have'nt you noticed the way I twisted it all out of whack, and took the original article way out of context! :cof1:

Yep, so like you! :pke:

[Sir Evil]

Yep, so like you! :pke:

Damnit, I knew I was right! :beer:

[Annie]

I believe that is :clink:

[Sir Evil]

I believe that is :clink:

Ya know the funny thing though is it seems that if you don't see it their way you are autaomatically wrong, as if you were to make a point that is going to make them change their minds anyway. If you recall the inception of you know what board, in the very early days it was good to have opposing views, good to have a fiesty debate, then all a sudden that damn bush came along and screwed the works up! Ya just can't debate an issue anymore these days if you don't automatically convert the masses into seeing it yer way! Ain't it a bitch what that there bush guy did! :cof1:

[Annie]

Debate is good. To me, discussion better. What I don't like are strawmen and know it alls. From either side.

When someone says I'm an 'idiot' for my beliefs, they have proven themselves an idiot, more than my pov could ever do.

[Sir Evil]

Debate is good. To me, discussion better. What I don't like are strawmen and know it alls. From either side.

When someone says I'm an 'idiot' for my beliefs, they have proven themselves an idiot, more than my pov could ever do.

LOL, someone called me a strawman today, and I think idiot may of come up multibe times!:(

I dunno, I may just have to convert just to get along around here.....:cof1:

[Annie]

That will be the day!

[Sir Evil]

That will be the day!

Well you know the scenario, you can't please em' all the time, and this bunch ya just can't period. can't beat em' I gues join em'.......:cool:

[Annie]

Ok. Are you bowing towards Mecca? Or is that Medina?

[Sir Evil]

Ok. Are you bowing towards Mecca? Or is that Medina?

lol, my head has been spun so many thimes on this thread that I'm unsure!

hey, check the mail homer!

[Annie]

lol, my head has been spun so many thimes on this thread that I'm unsure!

hey, check the mail homer!

Done, Socrates.

[OrnotBitwise]

Well you know the scenario, you can't please em' all the time, and this bunch ya just can't period. can't beat em' I gues join em'.......:cool:
Jolly good! We'll begin your re-education by suturing your eyes open and making you watch Fahrenheit 9/11, An Inconvenient Truth, and Wag the Dog back-to-back for 5 days or so.

:D

[Sir Evil]

Jolly good! We'll begin your re-education by suturing your eyes open and making you watch Fahrenheit 9/11, An Inconvenient Truth, and Wag the Dog back-to-back for 5 days or so.

:D

LOL, an when shall the procedure commence?

[Cancel7]

Jolly good! We'll begin your re-education by suturing your eyes open and making you watch Fahrenheit 9/11, An Inconvenient Truth, and Wag the Dog back-to-back for 5 days or so.

:D


Can we stack em all up nekid and take pictures of em too? With dogs? Pretty please? It'd be just like one of em fraternaties if we did it. That stuff is so effin fun-e.

[Sir Evil]

Can we stack em all up nekid and take pictures of em too? With dogs? Pretty please? It'd be just like one of em fraternaties if we did it. That stuff is so effin fun-e.

Hell, why not cut a few heads of along the way.......:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[OrnotBitwise]

Can we stack em all up nekid and take pictures of em too? With dogs? Pretty please? It'd be just like one of em fraternaties if we did it. That stuff is so effin fun-e.
Dogs, sure. But no flushing of religious texts. We've gotta have some standards, you know.

[Sir Evil]

Ummm, funny that when ya click on the link it takes ya to wired? am I the only one getting the link that way?

What leg work? I didn't start this thread about confirming John Bolton, and then turn it into the Iraq issue, I did'nt ask upon you the particular piece of news, I was asked to provide a link to what I said about Kay stating the lack of cooperation, then I admitted my mistake on the name and provided a link about what I was speaking of. You chose to remember what the other link corresponding with Blix as the way you remember it, so are you now stating that fox has it right and cnn was wrong?:confused:

Oh well Guess I am just a lazy ass for not interperating things the way you do...


Darn, dontcha hate it when ya have to go and quote yourself? Well the silince is deafening on this one! What can I say, I guess I am a glutton for punishment so please come back and school me y'all!!....Please......:cof1:

[Care4all]

Darn, dontcha hate it when ya have to go and quote yourself? Well the silince is deafening on this one! What can I say, I guess I am a glutton for punishment so please come back and school me y'all!!....Please......:cof1:

i'm here, and reading the thread, trying to catch the heck up!

btw....pretty good job keeping up with all the posts today....it was fun, even though i still think you are just messed up in your thinking!!!!! lol j/k u...sort of ;) hehe

regardless, we haven't had anyone to even try to give us a run for the money....in a while!

thanks....but you are still wrong :D time on here, and knowing how to read and comprehend such reading, will change some of your deadset, (partisan imho) thinking!!!!

ahhhhhhhhh, the challenge! hahaha!

care

[Damocles]

I'm sure he thinks that your thinking is equally "partisan"...

:tongout:

[Care4all]

I'm sure he thinks that your thinking is equally "partisan"...

:tongout:

certainly!!! lol but i was waiting for him to tell me!!!! hahaha!

[Sir Evil]

i'm here, and reading the thread, trying to catch the heck up!

btw....pretty good job keeping up with all the posts today....it was fun, even though i still think you are just messed up in your thinking!!!!! lol j/k u...sort of ;) hehe

regardless, we haven't had anyone to even try to give us a run for the money....in a while!

thanks....but you are still wrong :D time on here, and knowing how to read and comprehend such reading, will change some of your deadset, (partisan imho) thinking!!!!

ahhhhhhhhh, the challenge! hahaha!


care


What, do my eyes deceive me? care, you admitted it was fun? yes, it was but don't you go trying to brainwash me now!

I'll be the first to tell ya care that no matter how hard ya debate a subject there really is no way of changing a persons view, it's a rare bird when ya do!
The whole thing is about the fun of offering an opposing view, and yeah it's fun that way as opposed to the same view from everyone. glad ya see that way Care!:clink:

[Sir Evil]

certainly!!! lol but i was waiting for him to tell me!!!! hahaha!

hahaha!

:cof1:

[Care4all]

I'll be the first to tell ya care that no matter how hard ya debate a subject there really is no way of changing a persons view, it's a rare bird when ya do!



Ahhhh, well...I would have thought the same as you....but two years and 3 months later, and alot of ym debates, I have one accomplishment under my belt!!!! hahahaha! really, though he may not admit it...yikes!

I have never given up on anything.....from birth, ask my mom for verification....too stubborn to accept defeat I guess?

Anyway....we are all humans and all Americans, and not one of us here, want to destroy our country.....not intentionally imo! (No matter what our party leaders may want us to think...)

care

[evince]

great old thread

[Annie]

:lol: