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AnyOldIron
08-16-2006, 04:50 AM
South Africa gives white farmers six months to sell

South Africa has told its white farmers they will risk losing their land if they fail to agree on acceptable selling prices for black resettlement within the next six months, the first time the country has set down such stringent rules for land reform policy.

Lulu Xingwana, the new agriculture minister, said the government would no longer spend time negotiating with white farmers of whom she accused of not being committed to the empowerment of black people.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/africa/article1219239.ece

charver
08-16-2006, 07:07 AM
Yep. It seems like they're well on the way to emulating their northern neighbours, Zimbabwe.

It's a pity all that South Africa is lacking is a blatantly corrupt dictator figure. For all his incompetence, medical quackery and spineless international diplomacy, at least Mbeki isn't Mugabe.

However, that could all change if the new Presidential favourite, Jacob Zuma, beats the corruption charges levelled against him and becomes Africas latest kleptocrat, come 2009. Can anyone stop him? Let's hope so for their sake.

(Personally, i don't see how the South Africans could overlook multi-millionaire businessman, Tokyo Sexwale for President. Inspired naming from Mr & Mrs Sexwale there.)

uscitizen
08-16-2006, 07:18 AM
Rascism never left South Africa.

LadyT
08-16-2006, 07:31 AM
Yikes. That is not going to end well unless they put a stop to that.

Damocles
08-16-2006, 08:46 AM
When did racism leave? You cannot have the exact same people who were actively racist living there and suddenly expect it to be gone because of one government change....

LadyT
08-16-2006, 10:32 AM
Yeah, but this is adding fuel to the fire. That country's going to hell in a hand basket, and if these farmers had any sense, they'd sell and get out while they can. Unless you can definitely point to a person and say, "you personally stole my lot" and I want it returned, redistribution will only push the problem further along. I'm under the impression that these white land owners either inherited the land or bought it themselves and now they are being forced to sell it because of their skin color. I think policies promoting the native African's to come into power can be good, but when they outrightly put other people down, you're headed for trouble.

Damocles
08-16-2006, 10:37 AM
I would cut and run if I were they. I will even bet the US would give them amnesty and protection... If they were smart they would.

TheDanold
08-16-2006, 10:39 AM
It just boggles the mind why they would do this after seeing the disaster resulting in the same policies in Zimbabwe?
Farming (like any job) requires know-how, it isn't just about transferring land.
Moreover the foundation of any civilized society is property rights.

LadyT
08-16-2006, 11:01 AM
It just boggles the mind why they would do this after seeing the disaster resulting in the same policies in Zimbabwe?
Farming (like any job) requires know-how, it isn't just about transferring land.
Moreover the foundation of any civilized society is property rights.

I definitely agree with the first part of your post. Seeing what mugabe (sp?) should have clued them in. I'm finding that leaders aren't too smart hte world over. As for the second part, what do you mean by "civilized"

Brent
08-16-2006, 01:19 PM
South Africa gives white farmers six months to sell

South Africa has told its white farmers they will risk losing their land if they fail to agree on acceptable selling prices for black resettlement within the next six months, the first time the country has set down such stringent rules for land reform policy.

Lulu Xingwana, the new agriculture minister, said the government would no longer spend time negotiating with white farmers of whom she accused of not being committed to the empowerment of black people.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/africa/article1219239.ece

I am surprised you're admitting to this, AnyoldIron.

IHateGovernment
08-16-2006, 09:05 PM
It is easy to pick on a minority when the majority favors it. This is the politics of populism. It has a nice face. It gives the people what they want. Sounds good but at what cost to an underrepresented minority. The same is happening in Venezuela.

Hermes Thoth
08-12-2007, 03:44 PM
It is easy to pick on a minority when the majority favors it. This is the politics of populism. It has a nice face. It gives the people what they want. Sounds good but at what cost to an underrepresented minority. The same is happening in Venezuela.

But populism isn't always bad. IF the population isn't racist, then populism will not lead to racism.

FUCK THE POLICE
08-12-2007, 04:29 PM
Does this mean that their actually preventing all white people from being farmers in South Africa? Or what?

blackascoal
08-14-2007, 08:48 AM
Rascism never left South Africa.

Thank you, I'm glad someone has their eyes open.

blackascoal
08-14-2007, 08:50 AM
When did racism leave? You cannot have the exact same people who were actively racist living there and suddenly expect it to be gone because of one government change....

Excellent thought

Hermes Thoth
08-14-2007, 08:55 AM
Excellent thought

So how long is the time frame? How long must whites be punished for the past? Just wondering.

blackascoal
08-14-2007, 09:56 AM
So how long is the time frame? How long must whites be punished for the past? Just wondering.

It ain't (eb) that distant a past and those who stole and profited from apartheid must face the music.

evince
08-14-2007, 10:01 AM
How long will it be before people face the reality of the past without whining about the fact that it makes whites look bad?

blackascoal
08-14-2007, 10:38 AM
Racism returns to South Africa?

That's deep.

White farmers who own 90% .. make that NINETY PERCENT of the fertile superior farmland, land that was dispossessed, stolen, and sometimes murderously and brutally taken away from the native people of the land, feel that don't have to sell any of it back because it's theirs.

Racism stole the land, but it "racist" to demand they give it back?

What kind of warped sense of logic supports that bullshit?

Did you know that black farmers right here in the land of the free suffered the same fate and had their farms and property stolen from them? The mechanism here wasn't apartheid it was the USDA.


In 1982 the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights found that systematic racism implemented by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) was a major cause of land loss amongst Black farmers. Namely it was discovered that USDA employees routinely denied Black farmers credit and information about USDA programs readily accessible to White farmers. The findings were so drastic the Commission noted that, absent change, by 2000 there would be (0) black-owned farms in America

After years of having their USDA loan applications systematically denied or delayed, Black farmers joined together and filed a Class Action Lawsuit (Pigford vs. Glickman) against the USDA. Daniel Glickman was the Secretary of Agriculture under the Clinton administration. In April 1999 the USDA and Black farmers reached a settlement that declared: All African American farmers who farmed, or attempted to farm, between January 1, 1981 and December 31, 1996 and applied to the USDA during that same period for participation in a federal farm credit or benefit program who believed they were discriminated against on the basis of race in USDA’s response to their application and filed a discrimination complaint on or before July 1, 1997 as well as anyone who otherwise satisfied the criteria for membership in the class action but who did not file a discrimination complaint until after July 1, 1997, shall be entitled to relief under the Consent Decree

I'm sure that libertarians would call the lawsuit and settlement "racism"

Probably doesn't matter that the South African Constitution demands this redistribution of land. Under the willing buyer/willing seller land redistribution scheme, white farmers were to give up their farms voluntarily which would be purchased for black Africans by the government at market rates.

Under the post apartheid constitution the government of South Africa has the right to enforce sales of white owned farms to speed up the process of land redistribution.

The Commission on the Restitution of Land Rights announced that the 25,200 hectare farm located in the Northern Cape Province was seized on January 26. Four hundred and seventy one local families, including former farm workers have claimed the land and will be eligible for government loans to purchase it.

Americans have no understanding of a collective society. We believe that capitalism is the only course and one size fits all. It's why many hate Chavez, becuse he's using his countries asset to benefit the collective society, not simply the rich.

To most Americans, property is more important than people. Sure white farmers stole the land enforced by a racist system and government, but it's "racist" to take steps to correct that and do what is in the best interests of people.

"It takes knowledge to run a farm" .. and everyone knows that black South Africans are stupid. Everyone knows that only whites know how to farm. .. Any idea that this is an oportunity for American farmers, who are themselves hurting, to assist and teach black South Africans farming .. well that would be downright socialist .. even though American farmers would be paid for their services and would extend goodwill outside our borders, something America badly needs.

American black farmers are already there and plan to involve themselves even more as the apartheid farmers move out. There are also some white Americans farmers there with them so it's not about race, it's about character. I know, been working with them for years on this.

Sometimes it boggles the mind listening to the American psyche'.

FUCK THE POLICE
08-14-2007, 11:12 AM
OK, now, I will resort to my "sophisticated" argument:

Why don't you just head off to Cuba then!

blackascoal
08-14-2007, 12:59 PM
OK, now, I will resort to my "sophisticated" argument:

Why don't you just head off to Cuba then!

Why don't you?

Unless you can show me a document of ownership that states that America belongs to Watermark then what the fuck are you talking about?

FUCK THE POLICE
08-14-2007, 02:21 PM
Why don't you?

Unless you can show me a document of ownership that states that America belongs to Watermark then what the fuck are you talking about?

I thought the quotes around "sophisticated" would tip you off to the fact that it was a mock-argument.

Apparently it flew over someone's head...

Hermes Thoth
08-14-2007, 03:57 PM
How long will it be before people face the reality of the past without whining about the fact that it makes whites look bad?

I don't care about looking bad, dumbass. I care about ongoing policies of racial discrimination, framed as justice.

blackascoal
08-15-2007, 08:18 AM
I thought the quotes around "sophisticated" would tip you off to the fact that it was a mock-argument.

Apparently it flew over someone's head...

I apologize .. you're correct .. I was slow.

FUCK THE POLICE
08-15-2007, 10:13 AM
As an interesting anecdote, I almost had my college schedule dropped the other day because of a stupid money problem, and I declared to my father "I don't like dealing with money, I'm moving to Cuba!". He, a lifelong conservative Republican, just shook his head and said "I wouldn't blame ya..."

Not really much Cuba hatred around here. Actually, we're planning to head out there one day. I hear they don't stamp American passports so that no one will no we're breaking that stupid embargo.

Battleborne
08-15-2007, 11:32 AM
Yeah, but this is adding fuel to the fire. That country's going to hell in a hand basket, and if these farmers had any sense, they'd sell and get out while they can. Unless you can definitely point to a person and say, "you personally stole my lot" and I want it returned, redistribution will only push the problem further along. I'm under the impression that these white land owners either inherited the land or bought it themselves and now they are being forced to sell it because of their skin color. I think policies promoting the native African's to come into power can be good, but when they outrightly put other people down, you're headed for trouble.


This is soo redundant...the "White" farmers cultivated the land and made a profit from their hard work...while the indigenous people held land for several thousand years prior with absolutely no improvement...kinda/sorta akin to Israels problemos with the Palestinians...they took back some of their land that was cutlivated by Israel farmers...and it is a mess torn down and depleted waste land once again...go figure all you gurus of anthropology et al!