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View Full Version : Terrorists . . . or FEMA?



OrnotBitwise
04-30-2007, 09:50 AM
It seems that the shadowy forces behind the collapse of the WTC in New York are at work again, this time in the San Francisco Bay Area.

It seems so straightforward doesn't it? A tanker truck full of 8600 gallons of gasoline catches fire and burns on a freeway, heating the overpass above to such an extent that it collapses like a cheap toy on a hot day.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/04/30/MNGK8PI1CI1.DTL

Sure. That's what they want you to think.

I mean, come on. Witnesses say that the truck "just exploded." Like they do that all the time, right? And why right there in that particular spot, right where it could do the most damage?

http://cdn.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2007/04/30/ba_tanker.jpg

The bay area commute is going to be snarled for months as that ramp is repaired. Why is that?

Dig a little deeper and it gets even more suspicious. The energy density of gasoline is about 131 megajoules -- 1.31 * 10^8 J -- per U.S. gallon. Simple arithmetic reveals that the maximum amount of energy that could possibly be released was only about 1.12 terajoules. We're supposed to believe that almost all that energy went straight into the structure of the overpass with no loss at all? Uh huh.

What was really in that tanker truck? And, more importantly, what is it they don't want us to see from that ramp?

Cancel7
04-30-2007, 09:51 AM
Are you joking around, or are you serious?

Cypress
04-30-2007, 09:53 AM
gasoline doesn't "explode".

Are they saying it was gasoline, in the tanker?

uscitizen
04-30-2007, 10:03 AM
yeah, was the driver named Abdul ?

OrnotBitwise
04-30-2007, 10:04 AM
gasoline doesn't "explode".

Are they saying it was gasoline, in the tanker?Yes they are. Supposedly, it was going to a gas station in Oakland.

uscitizen
04-30-2007, 10:07 AM
Darn there goes up the price of gas again :(


Same type of thing happened on I 75 in FL a few years ago.

Cypress
04-30-2007, 11:47 AM
Yes they are. Supposedly, it was going to a gas station in Oakland.

Maybe the reporters got it wrong. Maybe the tanker had LNG or propane. Those fuels can explode, unlike gasoline.

uscitizen
04-30-2007, 11:51 AM
Gasoline can explode very well. It does it many times a minute in your auto engine.

Cypress
04-30-2007, 12:13 PM
Okay, USC - Mr. smarty pants ;)

We're not taking about the engine blowing up. We're talking about the tanks blowing up. Gasoline is explosive under very specific physical conditions - when it's ignited under pressure: Like in the internal combustion engine.

I was obviously talking about gasoline tanks (not the engine), where the gasoline liquid is at atmospheric pressure. It's not explosive under those conditions. To my knowlege.

Damocles
04-30-2007, 12:20 PM
Okay, USC - Mr. smarty pants ;)

We're not taking about the engine blowing up. We're talking about the tanks blowing up. Gasoline is explosive under very specific physical conditions - when it's ignited under pressure: Like in the internal combustion engine.

I was obviously talking about gasoline tanks (not the engine), where the gasoline liquid is at atmospheric pressure. It's not explosive under those conditions. To my knowlege.
Once again, the fumes are explosive. When calculating the explosive capabilities of that fuel do you think the person who did it couldn't figure that out?

I forgot I was interrupted before. This isn't a "once again" post. sorry about that.

uscitizen
04-30-2007, 12:37 PM
Okay, USC - Mr. smarty pants ;)

We're not taking about the engine blowing up. We're talking about the tanks blowing up. Gasoline is explosive under very specific physical conditions - when it's ignited under pressure: Like in the internal combustion engine.

I was obviously talking about gasoline tanks (not the engine), where the gasoline liquid is at atmospheric pressure. It's not explosive under those conditions. To my knowlege.


The vapors from Gasoline are very explosive. Don't ask me how I know :shock:

Cypress
04-30-2007, 12:53 PM
The nitpicking crew is at it again ;-)

Do you guys want me to add caveats and qualifications to everything I write.

Gasoline tanks, under most situations and conditions in real life will ignite, but will not explode.


The article on the bridge collapse blames it on a gasoline FIRE. Not one mention of an explosion


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18392684/

Cancel7
04-30-2007, 12:55 PM
The nitpicking crew is at it again ;-)

Do you guys want me to add caveats and qualifications to everything I write.

Gasoline tanks, under most situations and conditions in real life will ignite, but will not explode.


The article on the bridge collapse blames it on a gasoline FIRE. Not one mention of an explosion


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18392684/

Don't take any shit from them Cypress. They're just bored. If it were me, I'd tell them, listen, you should print out your post, roll it up, and stick it in your ass sideaways, that will give you something to do.

uscitizen
04-30-2007, 01:09 PM
Umm Check back thru the posts Cypress It looked to me like you first used the word "explode" :)

Damocles
04-30-2007, 01:26 PM
Umm Check back thru the posts Cypress It looked to me like you first used the word "explode" :)

As far as I can tell, uscit, you are right in this regard.

You said that gasoline cannot explode. I explained that it could, especially contained vapors in such a thing as a tanker.

Cypress
04-30-2007, 01:29 PM
Umm Check back thru the posts Cypress It looked to me like you first used the word "explode" :)


Correction. Ornot's article said some eyewitnesses said they saw an "explosion". Since gasoline tank "explosions" are rare, that's why I wondered about what the facts actually were.

That's why I asked if the fuel was either propane, or whether the witnesses simply mistook the ignition of a fireball, for an "explosion".

uscitizen
04-30-2007, 01:44 PM
Correction. Ornot's article said some eyewitnesses said they saw an "explosion". Since gasoline tank "explosions" are rare, that's why I wondered about what the facts actually were.

That's why I asked if the fuel was either propane, or whether the witnesses simply mistook the ignition of a fireball, for an "explosion".

Ok, I will give you that, but gasoline will explode, I know from personal experience...

and if it is heated in a container it blows up really big. But it will blow up a building just from accumulated fumes in the air....

Cypress
04-30-2007, 01:47 PM
Ok, I will give you that, but gasoline will explode, I know from personal experience...

and if it is heated in a container it blows up really big. But it will blow up a building just from accumulated fumes in the air....


concur. Under certain conditions, in an enclosed space where the air is saturated with gasoline fumes, I wouldn't dare light a match.


:blowup:

uscitizen
04-30-2007, 01:51 PM
I wonder how fast of an oxidation rate is required to qualify as an explosion ?

uscitizen
04-30-2007, 01:52 PM
Most gunpowder will not "explode" if not contained, just poof up pretty fast.

Thorn
04-30-2007, 03:30 PM
As I understand it, the driver took a curve too fast and hit one of the concrete supports. Presumably that ruptured the tank and a spark ignited its contents. A large volume of fuel would ignite pretty fast under those conditions (all conditions met: ignition source, fuel, and oxygen) and might appear, to untutored onlookers, as an explosion just because of the speed of the fire.

Apparently the driver (his name is Hispanic, by the way) suffered only second degree burns but was able to walk to a gas station on his own and call a taxi to take him to a nearby hospital.

uscitizen
04-30-2007, 03:38 PM
Dang ! Hispanic terrorists are after us now! Invade Mexico!

Thorn
04-30-2007, 03:40 PM
Dang ! Hispanic terrorists are after us now! Invade Mexico!

LOL!

Damocles
04-30-2007, 06:39 PM
Dang ! Hispanic terrorists are after us now! Invade Mexico!
That's not how it works. We are supposed to invade New Zealand...

Hermes Thoth
05-01-2007, 04:20 PM
Dang ! Hispanic terrorists are after us now! Invade Mexico!


How about we just stop them from immigrating. Isn't that fair? Why must we take everyone in? How many countries have this assinine immigration policy?

uscitizen
05-01-2007, 05:05 PM
Do you want to cut off Mexico's second highest foreign income source ?
The money Mexicans send back to Mexico is second only to their oil revenu.