With us or against us [Archive] - Just Plain Politics!

View Full Version : With us or against us

Beefy

08-12-2006, 10:52 PM

Brent

08-13-2006, 12:45 AM

charver

08-13-2006, 05:09 AM

I agree with the philosophy. It does not mean every country has to send troops -- that is not what the President was saying. Rather, it simply means other countries must condemn terrorism, and not permit terrorism to fester within their borders -- if they wish to be our friend, that is. Otherwise they ARE the enemy. Any nation which allows terrorists to gather within their borders and conspire against Americans is an evil, corrupt nation.

This from a country which has continually refused to extradite IRA terror suspects to Britain.

I suppose nations allowing "terrorists to gather within their borders and conspire against" the UK is totally different?

Care4all

08-13-2006, 06:30 AM

Sir Evil

08-13-2006, 07:39 AM

You're either with us or against us. There is no in between, there is no Geneva. We, the US has decided that we will dictate whether you are on the right or wrong side of the world politik. The United States decides who is right and wrong, and frankly, if you disagree with us, you are wrong.

I'm sure we'll have a great 21st century.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Cry, and cry some more! no Geneva? what a joke! you probably cry about your civil liberties being taken away too.........

toby

08-13-2006, 09:25 AM

Nothing like taking a statement out of context and making massive, sweeping conclusion about it! LOL

Beefy

08-13-2006, 11:38 PM

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Cry, and cry some more! no Geneva? what a joke! you probably cry about your civil liberties being taken away too.........

Hogwash. The government cannot give you rights, it can only take them away. If you are not concerned with that power then you are a complacent sheep.

Anyhow, you digress. My point was that there has been an obvious slant towards an "America Vs. The rest of the world, pick a side" mentality. If you can't see that, then okay, that's your little bubble. But it is an example of hubris to assume that our role in the world is the only one that matters and that if you are not on our our side, you are an enemy.

Surely, politics aside, you can uinderstand the liability we create in such an attitude.

Beefy

08-13-2006, 11:41 PM

Nothing like taking a statement out of context and making massive, sweeping conclusion about it! LOL

The conclusion is in the premise toby. It is a broad sweeping statement by its very nature. "With us or against us". Where's the third option that you are alluding to?

Brent

08-14-2006, 01:01 AM

Brent, what is the message from God behind "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"? Was this Civil Law or Criminal Law to the Jews? Or was it used in both?

And what do you think Christ meant, when he spoke this....Paraphrased: In order to be perfect .....if your enemy strikes you, turn your cheek? If an adversary FORCES you to walk a mile with him, offer to walk two miles with him? Love thy enemies, as thyself because it will be like burning coals on the adversary's head?

Do you think an eye for an eye was instituted to punish those that did wrong or for vengence against those that did wrong or what???

Also, could you please supply verses in the Bible that authorizes us to go to war in a place like Iraq and somehow cause the direct or INDIRECT death of 50,000 to 100,000 people....and it be OK? I am unfamiliar with any......

Where does an eye for an eye(just retribution) fall in to your support for this Iraq invaision?

Care

Are you suggesting we pull back and be annihilated? Assuming your answer is no, what is your plan to keep America safe? Those verses are referring to our personal conduct, Care4all, not the defense of an enitre Nation, nor to even a household. If an intruder broke into a Christian man's home, I certain'y don't expect him to "turn the other cheek" and permit the intruder to rape his wife and murder his children.

We have a duty to protect each other, Care4all. Jesus is saying we should stand firm when we are persecuted and not lash back with tactics of the enemy; He is NOT saying we should just lay down and die. That's a very serious misinterpretation of the Bible, in my opinion.

Many times, the Lord commanded the Israelites to war, including the destruction of "civilians." The Bible is correct when it says "The LORD is a man of war." (Exodus 15:3) Just as I often need to be reminded of the Grace of God, I think you need to be reminded of the righteous anger of the Lord, and that whatever He commands, we may not question.

This is, of course, my interpretation, Care.
I can only follow the convictions I have.

May God bless you richly,

Brent

AnyOldIron

08-14-2006, 02:01 AM

I'll be on your side when you get rid of your own extremists from power.

Until then I will continue to see both sides as pathetic and sad....

Care4all

08-14-2006, 05:29 AM

Are you suggesting we pull back and be annihilated? Assuming your answer is no, what is your plan to keep America safe? Those verses are referring to our personal conduct, Care4all, not the defense of an enitre Nation, nor to even a household. If an intruder broke into a Christian man's home, I certain'y don't expect him to "turn the other cheek" and permit the intruder to rape his wife and murder his children.

We have a duty to protect each other, Care4all. Jesus is saying we should stand firm when we are persecuted and not lash back with tactics of the enemy; He is NOT saying we should just lay down and die. That's a very serious misinterpretation of the Bible, in my opinion.

Many times, the Lord commanded the Israelites to war, including the destruction of "civilians." The Bible is correct when it says "The LORD is a man of war." (Exodus 15:3) Just as I often need to be reminded of the Grace of God, I think you need to be reminded of the righteous anger of the Lord, and that whatever He commands, we may not question.

This is, of course, my interpretation, Care.
I can only follow the convictions I have.

May God bless you richly,

Brent

Who exactly would annialated us, by leaving, Bdw? What a crock!

Are you are saying that it is GOD'S PLAN for us to kill the iraqis when the Iraqis NEVER EVER DID ANYTHING TO HURT US?

YOU have got to be kidding bdw.....

The war must be a JUST war and fought in a just manner....IRAQ IS NEITHER, it is a work of the Devil at our hands....because it was UNJUSTIFIED.... and personally, thru the teachings of God, I don't see any other way to look at it...

And the Lord says in Scripture that if someone, one on one, attemps to kill you, you are only to try to stop them, WITHOUT KILLING THEM...cut their hands off in the literal sense...BUT NOT TO KILL THEM....now why do you think we are given that instruction? Because the Lord DOES NOT WANT US to let REVENGE guide us, imo.....because revenge is hate.....and revenge is doing WORSE to the other party than what they did to you...the person only attempted to murder, but did not succeed....thus they are not punished through death.

WHO IN IRAQ CAME TO AMERICA AND ATTACKED US?

WHO IN IRAQ ARE YOU KILLING AND WHY?

THIS is a work of SATAN bdw, and you support it.....and is NOT IN ANY WAY, supported by the Bible or God's word in Scripture....not in who we chose to war with, not in the measures we have used in war, not for the torture we used and inhumane treatments.....not a single thing that we have done is supported by the BIBLE, BY SCRIPTURE....NONE!!!!

care

AnyOldIron

08-14-2006, 05:38 AM

IRAQ IS NEITHER, it is a work of the Devil at our hands

Let's not let the guilty off the hook by attributing it to Santa.

The Iraq Debacle is the work of Bush, Blair and their supporters...

Damocles

08-14-2006, 06:01 AM

Hogwash. The government cannot give you rights, it can only take them away. If you are not concerned with that power then you are a complacent sheep.

Anyhow, you digress. My point was that there has been an obvious slant towards an "America Vs. The rest of the world, pick a side" mentality. If you can't see that, then okay, that's your little bubble. But it is an example of hubris to assume that our role in the world is the only one that matters and that if you are not on our our side, you are an enemy.

Surely, politics aside, you can uinderstand the liability we create in such an attitude.
Why do you hate America?

;)

AnyOldIron

08-14-2006, 06:30 AM

I agree with the philosophy.

Philosophy is not a mere statement of personal opinion. There is no such entity as a personal philosophy.

Philosophy is an action, the process by which we judge the validity and worth of an argument.

klaatu

08-14-2006, 06:54 AM

Well ..I think its important to know exactly what he meant when he said those words ... . "But over time, it's going to be important for nations to know they will be held accountable for inactivity. You are either with us or you are against us in the fight against terror."

So basically he was calling out to the rest of the world to get on board in the fight against terrorism .. he is saying that if you dont get on board in this fight against terrorism your Nation could be vulnerable to attack as a result of your inactivity. Thats what I get out of it ...

As far as the "with us or against us" part ... way too strong .. and an obvious attempt at gathering of the troops ... Nationalism in its finest hour...

Care4all

08-14-2006, 07:53 AM

IRAQ IS NEITHER, it is a work of the Devil at our hands

Let's not let the guilty off the hook by attributing it to Santa.

The Iraq Debacle is the work of Bush, Blair and their supporters...

That's precisely what I said....read between the lines my friend! hahahaha! "The Iraq Debacle is the work of Bush, Blair and their supporters... "

Only I said it in a foreign language to you....LOL

(Learn to be more fluent in this "foreigner's"(Christian) language.... ;) )

care

Brent

08-14-2006, 12:45 PM

Who exactly would annialated us, by leaving, Bdw? What a crock!

Somebody would, Care. If we can't defend ourselves because of a misinterpreted verse in the Bible, somebody is going to kill us. This is a harsh world.

Are you are saying that it is GOD'S PLAN for us to kill the iraqis when the Iraqis NEVER EVER DID ANYTHING TO HURT US?

Yes, I do believe it is God's plan, or rather, than He will use our actions as part of His plan. Do you not believe God is sovereign?

The war must be a JUST war and fought in a just manner....IRAQ IS NEITHER, it is a work of the Devil at our hands....because it was UNJUSTIFIED.... and personally, thru the teachings of God, I don't see any other way to look at it...

How was removing Saddam from power unjustified?

And the Lord says in Scripture that if someone, one on one, attemps to kill you, you are only to try to stop them, WITHOUT KILLING THEM...cut their hands off in the literal sense...BUT NOT TO KILL THEM....now why do you think we are given that instruction? Because the Lord DOES NOT WANT US to let REVENGE guide us, imo.....because revenge is hate.....and revenge is doing WORSE to the other party than what they did to you...the person only attempted to murder, but did not succeed....thus they are not punished through death.

Why did God sanction the death penalty in Exodus 21?

To what verse are you referring?

WHO IN IRAQ CAME TO AMERICA AND ATTACKED US?

Nobody, but Saddam Hussein was a supporter of terrorism.

Iraq wouldn't have been my first target, but I can understand why we're there.

WHO IN IRAQ ARE YOU KILLING AND WHY?

THIS is a work of SATAN bdw, and you support it.....and is NOT IN ANY WAY, supported by the Bible or God's word in Scripture....not in who we chose to war with, not in the measures we have used in war, not for the torture we used and inhumane treatments.....not a single thing that we have done is supported by the BIBLE, BY SCRIPTURE....NONE!!!!

care

What are your thoughts on God commanding Israel to war, including the killing of women and children? Was that not justified? Who are we to question God?

maineman

08-14-2006, 01:03 PM

Iraq may have supported terrorist organizations, but none that were interested in us....I say again, if we are going to attack every place on the planet that supports terrorism of any kind, why do we not attack south boston, massachusetts for its long standing financial support for the military wing of the irish republican army?

uscitizen

08-14-2006, 01:06 PM

Brent

08-14-2006, 01:09 PM

The bible says God delivered Israel into the hands of their enemies many times for their repeated drops back into idolitary and sin. why will he not deliver them into the hands of their enemies yet again brent ?

What are you suggesting, that we should stop supporting Israel? Israel is in rebellion -- they refuse to acknowledge Jesus Christ as the Messiah. Nevertheless, I believe it is a Christian duty to defend them, because in the end, they're going to repent and turn to the Lord.

uscitizen

08-14-2006, 01:24 PM

Perhaps hezbolla will repent as well. who knows ?
If Israel employs terroristic tactics we should quit supporting them imho.

I sure am glad you know gods plan for Israel :)

Brent

08-14-2006, 02:26 PM

I sure am glad you know gods plan for Israel :)

It's in the Bible

uscitizen

08-14-2006, 02:28 PM

And Jewish hands wrote that down in the bible Brent.
A big gap there Brent. What has happened with israel since the biblical accounts ?
Vengance is mine sayeth the lord. Or do you ignore that one ?

Brent

08-14-2006, 02:32 PM

And Jewish hands wrote that down in the bible Brent.
A big gap there Brent. What has happened with israel since the biblical accounts ?

The Bible is the inspired word of God. I trust what it says.

Vengance is mine sayeth the lord. Or do you ignore that one ?

I don't ignore it - I simply don't interpret it as meaning lay down and die. Jehovah commanded Israel to kill thousands of people. Exodus says "the Lord is a man of war." You interpret that.

OrnotBitwise

08-14-2006, 02:36 PM

The Bible is the inspired word of God. I trust what it says.

I don't ignore it - I simply don't interpret it as meaning lay down and die. Jehovah commanded Israel to kill thousands of people. Exodus says "the Lord is a man of war." You interpret that.
So, you're willing to admit that the bible is open to interpretation . . . except when that interpretation differs from yours.

uscitizen

08-14-2006, 02:43 PM

But if god and jesus are one and the same then is jesus a man of war ? The bible does not seem to indicate that Jesus was a man of war.

Care4all

08-14-2006, 03:05 PM

The Bible is the inspired word of God. I trust what it says.

I don't ignore it - I simply don't interpret it as meaning lay down and die. Jehovah commanded Israel to kill thousands of people. Exodus says "the Lord is a man of war." You interpret that.

What else does it say and teach us about our God Brent? Here you go again twisting and using his words without incorporating the WHOLE picture of God that we are given in the Bible...all you do is make people RUN from Christianity if it is ANYTHING like what you seem to be representing...by using just one line like the Lord is a God of war....all on its own without giving the context and without knowing God and his Justness.....and without giving meaning behind this one statement regarding this God of War.... I hope I made sense?

For example, don't we also know we have a God of Love, and don't we know thru scripture that we have a God of Justice and a God that represents Truth and a God of Forgiveness. etc..all of these descriptions is the Same God, one God Brent...NOT JUST A GOD OF WAR...

So, keeping all of this in mind, all that you know about our God, to represent Him as if he is the one that caused the inhumane torture and killing in our prisons, and that He was the one that caused the Iraqis to be attacked by us, or He was the one that caused all of the innocent in Lebanon to be killed... just because you read somewhere that He is a God of war...without taking in to consideration that there is an evil pressense on Earth and without taking in to consideration all of His other attributes that come in to play, like He is a Just God, and a Loving God, and a Forgiving God is representing Him poorly to say the least imo!

You are denying the pressense of Evil, you are denying free will of man by assuming that God is the Evil that has caused all of these things to happen....?

Do you believe that God is Evil Brent, or do you believe that God created and gave us as a gift of some sort the evil that is present on this earth?

Did or does God cause the Evil that causes neighbors to War? This is all a work of God...the lies, the murders, the unjust wars over the years?

you do not represent my God, if that is what you are saying....

Honestly, I just don't get it?

And btw, what exactly is misrepresented by Jesus's turn the other cheek and Love thy enemy verses?
care

Care4all

08-14-2006, 03:10 PM

But if god and jesus are one and the same then is jesus a man of war ? The bible does not seem to indicate that Jesus was a man of war.
precisely...

Immanuel

08-14-2006, 03:45 PM

I don't ignore it - I simply don't interpret it as meaning lay down and die. Jehovah commanded Israel to kill thousands of people. Exodus says "the Lord is a man of war." You interpret that.

Brent that passage came from The Song of Moses. Ex 15:3 to be exact. Why did you ignore Exodus 15:1-2 or the verses following it? This was a song in praise of God from the people of Israel when He freed them from captivity. It is a song of jubilation and honor to God. It had nothing to do with human war or Jehovah commanding Israel to kill thousands of people. You are being disengenuous by insinuating that "Jehovah commanded Israel to kill thousands of people" is associated with "the Lord is a man of war".

It is a song. A song sung to God in Praise. The people of Israel sang praise to God because he had rescued them from the Egyptians. In this passage, Israel declared God to be a man of war? Do you interpret that to literally mean God is a man, a warrior?

If so, does that mean when the Pharisees declared that Jesus drove out demons in the name of Beelzebub, the Prince of Demons, that Jesus literally drove out demons in the name of Beelzebub? Matthew 12:23-25 By your words, you accuse Jesus of being Satanic.

How about Mark 3:22 when the teachers of the law claimed he was possessed? In Mark 3:21 his own family claimed he was out of his mind. Was he?

It is hard to deny that there are differences between the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament. We tend to look at the Old Testament God with fear and trepidation because we look at the Law as confining and condemning. However, Martin Luther taught differently. He taught that the Law was given to us not to condemn us but rather to aid us in seeing our need for salvation.

At times I wonder how you can love Jehovah. You only seem to understand the condemnation that the Law casts on all of us. You never seem to understand that there really is a God out there who loves you and does not want you or anyone else to perish. How could you possibly love the God you portray as being God?

Immie

Brent

08-14-2006, 11:10 PM

Immanuel,

Where does the Bible indicate that the song is incorrect? If the song were blasphemous, why would it be included in the Bible? From my perspective, the song affirms the dual nature of God: God loves but He also hates. Take a look at the various passages which demonstrate what I'm saying:

http://www.gotquestions.org/war-Bible.html

Question: "What does the Bible say about war?"

Answer: Many people make the mistake of believing the Bible says, “You shall not kill,” and seek to apply this command to war. However, the Bible actually says, “You shall not murder” (Exodus 20:13). The Hebrew word literally means “the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice.” God often ordered the Israelites to go to war with other nations (1 Samuel 15:3; Joshua 4:13). God ordered the death penalty for numerous crimes (Exodus 21:12; 21:15; 22:19; Leviticus 20:11). So, God is not against killing in all circumstances, but rather only murder. War is never a good thing, but sometimes it is a necessary thing. In a world filled with sinful people (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Sometimes the only way to keep sinful people from doing great harm is by going to war with them.

War is a terrible thing! War is always the result of sin (Romans 3:10-18). In the Old Testament, God ordered the Israelites to: “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites” (Numbers 31:2). See also Deuteronomy 20:16-17, “However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them--the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites--as the LORD your God has commanded you.” Exodus 17:16 proclaims, “He said, "For hands were lifted up to the throne of the LORD. The LORD will be at war against the Amalekites from generation to generation." Also, 1 Samuel 15:18, “Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.” So, obviously God is not against all war. Jesus is always in perfect agreement with the Father (John 10:30), so we cannot argue that war was only God’s will in the Old Testament. God does not change (Malachi 3:6; James 1:17).

Jesus’ Second Coming also is exceedingly violent. Revelation 19:11-21 proclaims, “I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, "Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great." Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.”

It is an error to say that God never supports a war. Jesus is not a pacifist. In a world filled with evil people, sometimes a war is necessary to prevent even greater evil. If Hitler had not been defeated by World War II, how many more millions of Jews would have been killed? If the Civil War had not been fought, how much longer would African Americans have had to suffer as slaves? We must all remember to base our beliefs of the Bible, not on our emotions (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

Ecclesiastes 3:8 declares, “there is…a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace. In a world filled with sin, hatred, and evil (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Some wars are more “just” than others, but all wars are ultimately the result of sin. Christians should not desire war, but neither are Christians to oppose the government God has placed in authority over them (Romans 13:1-4; 1 Peter 2:17). The most important thing we can be doing in a time of war is to be praying for godly wisdom for our leaders, praying for the safety of our military, praying for quick resolution to the conflict, and praying for minimum casualties – on both sides of the conflict (Philippians 4:6-7).

We know, as the above article states, that Jesus is always in perfect agreement with the Father, for He is One with the Father. So you cannot rightly argue Jesus is anti-war and the Father was pro-war. They're the same God!

And I really don't appeciate you constantly questioning whether I love God or not based on this. Yes I am sinful and I've made mistakes, lying being one of my biggest faults, and because of that I can understand why you might question it sometimes, but why now? Being pro-war is no reason for you to question my faith. Do you also question the faith of the undoubtedly several members of your church who are pro-Bush and pro-war?

You speak of grace, and that I don't know of grace, but let's be honest here, Immie, you never show me ANY grace whatsoever. :) I'll go "suck on a rock" now.

precisely...

Read this Care4all -

Christ's purpose on earth wasn't to start wars; He came to redeem mankind. However, while in spiritual form prior to His birth, Jesus (Jehovah, the LORD) most certainly did support wars. No, wait, not just support - He COMMANDED wars.

http://www.gotquestions.org/war-Bible.html

I don't think my faith deserves to be questioned when there is enough in the Bible to support what I believe, while in contrast there is nothing particularly anti-war in the scriptures. If you disagree, fine, we can agree to disagree. But at least admit I'm not basing my beliefs on nothing here...everything I'm saying is based on a legitimate argument of Biblical interpretation. Speaking of which, how do you interpret this? "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: ... A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace." (Ecclesiastes 3:1,8)

You accuse me of taking a single verse and twisting it. Well did you stop to think you might be doing just that when you quote Matthew 5:39, a single verse, without posting it in context? If you read the New Living Translation of the Bible, or the NIV or NASB, you'll see a heading above verses 21-26 which says, "Teaching about Anger." Jesus is saying we must keep our anger in check, not that we can't defend ourselves and not that we can't go to war. :)

God doesn't contradict Himself.

I won't apologize for not believing God is an author of confusion...

God bless.

Brent

08-14-2006, 11:12 PM

Beefy

08-15-2006, 01:11 AM

[edit...double post]

Oh, one thing I will add (don't miss my reply at the end of page 2) to support my belief that the Iraq War is necessary. It's a quote from a great man named Edmund Burke. He said, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Saddam Hussein butchered 100,000 of his own people and aided terrorists for the destruction of Israel. Based on those two facts alone, I for one consider Saddam to be an evil person, who deserved to be removed from power.

Do I agree with everything going on over there? Hardly. But I support the concept of removing unGodly rulers from power whenever we have the means do to that. I consider it our duty. :)

If I don't love God because of that, then perhaps we worship completely different gods to begin with. Have a nice evening/morning and God bless,

Brent

How on Earth can you attempt to justify our invasion and occupation of Iraq as a humanitarian deal? Do you have any idea how absolutely incredulous that is? I hear the Hannity and Limbaugh lovers asking the same stupid question over and over: "Is the world better off without Saddam Hussein in power?"

The correct answer is that if it had happened in a vacuum, then yes the world would be better off, but IT DID NOT HAPPEN IN A VACUUM!!! Thousands of americans have died, and multiple tens of thousands of Iraqis have died. Ill tell you that more innocent iraqi civillians have died in this war than americans in the WTC.

If you think we'll win anything this way, then you are an ostrich.

Brent

08-15-2006, 01:37 AM

But you cannot prove conditions are as you claim.

maineman

08-15-2006, 05:48 AM

what sort of "proof" do you require?

Do you need to stick your hands into the wounds of the Iraqi civilians?

Immanuel

08-15-2006, 06:23 AM

Where does the Bible indicate that the song is incorrect? If the song were blasphemous, why would it be included in the Bible? From my perspective, the song affirms the dual nature of God: God loves but He also hates. Take a look at the various passages which demonstrate what I'm saying:

Where did I say it was incorrect? I said that the people of Israel made a statement in praise of God. I did not say anything about the Bible being incorrect.

"You speak of grace, and that I don't know of grace, but let's be honest here, Immie, you never show me ANY grace whatsoever. I'll go "suck on a rock" now."

If I could show you anywhere near the Grace that God has given you I would. However, you should not take my statements as being statements against you. It seems that you and I have very different views of the Gospel and of the meaning of the Old Testament. When I comment on your statements it is rarely (though not always) in anger or disgust. Usually, it is in an effort to show a different point of view. You concentrate on a God of Wrath. I concentrate on a God of Love.

Again, I ask these questions:

a) Do you interpret that (song) to literally mean God is a man, a warrior?

b) If so, does that mean when the Pharisees declared that Jesus drove out demons in the name of Beelzebub, the Prince of Demons, that Jesus literally drove out demons in the name of Beelzebub? Matthew 12:23-25 By your words, you accuse Jesus of being Satanic.

How about Mark 3:22 when the teachers of the law claimed he was possessed? In Mark 3:21 his own family claimed he was out of his mind. Was he?

c) How could you possibly love the God you portray as being God?

Please don't ignore them again.

Immie

Brent

08-15-2006, 11:54 AM

Please don't ignore them again.

Fine then, perhaps you can address the article I posted along with the enormous Biblical support therein. Do you deny that our God (Jehovah) has been responsible for wars? Do you deny that Jesus and the Father are One, in perfect agreement with one another?

Or is the Bible incorrect?

a) Do you interpret that (song) to literally mean God is a man, a warrior?

No, I interpret it figuratively. Obviously God is not really a "man." I am simply using it as a statement which I've backed up with other supportiving scripture. I believe I've demonstrated that God has no problem whatsoever with war. You have yet to prove otherwise. ;)

b) If so, does that mean when the Pharisees declared that Jesus drove out demons in the name of Beelzebub, the Prince of Demons, that Jesus literally drove out demons in the name of Beelzebub? Matthew 12:23-25 By your words, you accuse Jesus of being Satanic.

Perhaps I ignored this because it seems completely irrelevant? What in the world does that have to do with anything?

How about Mark 3:22 when the teachers of the law claimed he was possessed? In Mark 3:21 his own family claimed he was out of his mind. Was he?

Of course not. Wicked men make all sorts of claims throughout the Bible, in a setting which demonstrates their folly. We already know the Pharasees are men who are righteous on the outside, evil on the inside; they cared only about appearance. Anyway. What does this have to do with the song in Exodus?

c) How could you possibly love the God you portray as being God?

You love Jesus, Immanuel. Clearly, however, you do not wish to understand of His Father in Heaven. I've posted verses which demonstate that He is, indeed, a warrior God. And remember: Jesus and the Father are One, in perfect agreement with one another. What does that tell us?

_________

Do you reject the Holy Trinity?

Also, do you believe God punishes us, or does He allow us to do whatever we want to do?

Sir Evil

08-15-2006, 12:41 PM

If you think we'll win anything this way, then you are an ostrich.

I guess you win with hearts and minds right? what a shitbrick!

Your other cronies here had a post about how soldiers were getting sick from depleted uranium, however you would swear that all this stuff is useless as it was from the original gulf war or older, then why the fuck are soldiers currently getting sick from it?

I know, invading Iraq has created more terrorism right? I mean afterall there was 911 but that was before the Iraq invasion, so what ones took places since??? Geez I forgot already....:rolleyes:

Uhh, take it easy on the twinkies there Beefy...

maineman

08-15-2006, 12:47 PM

and we shoulda known about Osama...Hell.... Ollie North warned us about him during the Reagan years.....right evil?

maineman

08-15-2006, 12:49 PM

so what ones took places since??? Geez I forgot already....:rolleyes:

Madrid...London...Bali... Amman.... remember now? :321:

Sir Evil

08-15-2006, 12:49 PM

and we shoulda known about Osama...Hell.... Ollie North warned us about him during the Reagan years.....right evil?

Right mainecoon, I know you spent a couple years over their so you are the authority on all, my mistake shitbrick!

maineman

08-15-2006, 12:52 PM

I am not an authority, by any means...but I have forgotten more about the middle east than you have ever known...that is pretty clear.

Sir Evil

08-15-2006, 12:54 PM

I am not an authority, by any means...but I have forgotten more about the middle east than you have ever known...that is pretty clear.

Obviously so, I see you also wear that American flag on your head like a turban, you appeasing shitbrick!

maineman

08-15-2006, 12:57 PM

I'm curious....do you do anything other than call people names and spout inaccurate neocon babble?

madrid...london.... bali... amman.... remember now?

Sir Evil

08-15-2006, 01:00 PM

I'm curious....do you do anything other than call people names and spout inaccurate neocon babble?

madrid...london.... bali... amman.... remember now?

What me? If I remember correctly when I made my first few posts here you jumped all over them spitting out the insults and quoting the leftist word for word, now I come over and just post my comments as I laugh at some of the most rediculous post I have read outside of DU! Make any sense to you mainecoon?:cof1:

Cypress

08-15-2006, 01:01 PM

[QUOTE=Sir Evil;7314]I guess you win with hearts and minds right? what a shitbrick!

Your other cronies here had a post about how soldiers were getting sick from depleted uranium, however you would swear that all this stuff is useless as it was from the original gulf war or older, then why the fuck are soldiers currently getting sick from it?

I know, invading Iraq has created more terrorism right? I mean afterall there was 911 but that was before the Iraq invasion, so what ones took places since??? Geez I forgot already....:rolleyes:

QUOTE]

Don't watch the news much? Madrid, London, Bali, US consulate in Jeddah, US employee compound in Riyahd, Jordan Hotel.

Bush's own US State Dept. has reported that terrorism is up to record levels.

maineman

08-15-2006, 01:03 PM

What me? If I remember correctly when I made my first few posts here you jumped all over them spitting out the insults and quoting the leftist word for word, now I come over and just post my comments as I laugh at some of the most rediculous post I have read outside of DU! Make any sense to you mainecoon?:cof1:

I jumped all over your LIE about Ollie North....which you got from some rightwing slander mill....

so...you asked about what other terror attacks since 9/11 and I listed a few.... remember now?

Sir Evil

08-15-2006, 01:05 PM

Don't watch the news much? Madrid, London, Bali, US consulate in Jeddah, US employee compound in Riyahd, Jordan Hotel.

Bush's own US State Dept. has reported that terrorism is up to record levels.

Another moron heard from, wassuppp cyphilis? know how to quoute much?

Is it up? damn Iraq war gonna cause a jihad right here in the states!..... especially when momo's like yourself and some others on this board would be in support of that...:rolleyes:

Sir Evil

08-15-2006, 01:07 PM

I jumped all over your LIE about Ollie North....which you got from some rightwing slander mill....

so...you asked about what other terror attacks since 9/11 and I listed a few.... remember now?

Damn, you are a bigger shitbrick than I thought! Nothing like taking something I said from somewhere else and making part of another one of these largely sympathizing, appeasing moron threads... Go ahead, list me the terrorist attacks on our soil since 911 shitbrick!

uscitizen

08-15-2006, 01:08 PM

Hello Evil Sir, Are you related to Dixie ?

maineman

08-15-2006, 01:08 PM

Another moron heard from, wassuppp cyphilis? know how to quoute much?

Is it up? damn Iraq war gonna cause a jihad right here in the states!..... especially when momo's like yourself and some others on this board would be in support of that...:rolleyes:

the above is really a rather lame and ignorant comment. try harder in the future to raisethe level of discourse up a notch. that is so grade school.

Sir Evil

08-15-2006, 01:11 PM

Hello Evil Sir, Are you related to Dixie ?

Is that a typical reply around here when an opposing view is made? well hello to you too, are you related to any of the shitbricks on board?

Immanuel

08-15-2006, 01:11 PM

I'm not sure if these were meant for me or if they were in your signature:

Do you reject the Holy Trinity? No, I believe in God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit all different representations of the same being. And don't you dare ask me to explain it. ;)

Also, do you believe God punishes us, or does He allow us to do whatever we want to do?

God does allow us to do as we want. He gives us faith and that faith decides our final destination.

Immie

maineman

08-15-2006, 01:12 PM

Damn, you are a bigger shitbrick than I thought! Nothing like taking something I said from somewhere else and making part of another one of these largely sympathizing, appeasing moron threads... Go ahead, list me the terrorist attacks on our soil since 911 shitbrick!

on "our soil"? is that the measure of tranquility in the world? Madrid, Amman, Jeddah, London, Bali, et.al....those don't "count" because they weren't on "our soil"? The fact that our invasion of Iraq has so destabilized the region that the entire place is poised to boil over in sectarian violence doesn't matter because it isn't happening on "our soil"?

what color is the sky in your world?

uscitizen

08-15-2006, 01:13 PM

Is that a typical reply around here when an opposing view is made? well hello to you too, are you related to any of the shitbricks on board?
Nope, no relations on here. Just noticed similarities. Just another asshole I guess :)
From one asshole to another , HI!

Sir Evil

08-15-2006, 01:13 PM

the above is really a rather lame and ignorant comment. try harder in the future to raisethe level of discourse up a notch. that is so grade school.

what can I say coon, I just reduced myself to the level that I read around here.
Anyways, explain to me almighty mister live in the middle east for two years, how does the Iraq war equate to more terrorists? tell me what would of been the solution to the problem, can ya do that for me shitbrick?

Sir Evil

08-15-2006, 01:15 PM

Nope, no relations on here. Just noticed similarities. Just another asshole I guess :)
From one asshole to another , HI!

:ILUM:

I like that attitude! you aren't going to tell me how you are going to kick my ass next if you don't like what I post will ya? I know the coon from maine plays that game.

OrnotBitwise

08-15-2006, 01:15 PM

Is that a typical reply around here when an opposing view is made? well hello to you too, are you related to any of the shitbricks on board?
No, it's a common query around here whenever a noob says something that is both really ignorant and uselessly inflammatory. It's folklorically related to "Wow, you kiss your sister with that mouth?" and "The age of consent in your state is HOW low?"

maineman

08-15-2006, 01:15 PM

Sir Evil

08-15-2006, 01:19 PM

on "our soil"? is that the measure of tranquility in the world? Madrid, Amman, Jeddah, London, Bali, et.al....those don't "count" because they weren't on "our soil"? The fact that our invasion of Iraq has so destabilized the region that the entire place is poised to boil over in sectarian violence doesn't matter because it isn't happening on "our soil"?

what color is the sky in your world?

Ok shitbrick, since you are so very good at taking things out of content I'll try to go along with your way of going from one thing to another.

So, these terrorist attacks you mention elsewhere were a direct result of the Iraq war? they would'nt of happened at all if Iraq was not invaded?

Who are these teorrists? you told me another time how Iraq and Iran have had such hatred for each other, How on earth did Iraq become the crying call for terrorists around the world?

I dunno shitbrick, I'm pretty sure terrorism is something that was going to take place with or without Iraq, In fact 911 was before the Iraq invasion, was it not?

Sir Evil

08-15-2006, 01:20 PM

No, it's a common query around here whenever a noob says something that is both really ignorant and uselessly inflammatory. It's folklorically related to "Wow, you kiss your sister with that mouth?" and "The age of consent in your state is HOW low?"

homo say what?

Sir Evil

08-15-2006, 01:22 PM

and the "something that you said" about Osama and Ollie North is simply instructive as to the level of your intellectual grasp of the issues.... you are just a parrot devoid of any original thought and incapable of any critical intelligent analysis of current events. You're a gadfly and a not too creative one, at that.

That was a simple comment you have been blasting me with, the fact is that OBL was a known terrorist long before you care to acknowledge.

You go ahead and just keep up the appeasement, I would never of expected less shitbrick!

maineman

08-15-2006, 01:23 PM

what can I say coon, I just reduced myself to the level that I read around here.
Anyways, explain to me almighty mister live in the middle east for two years, how does the Iraq war equate to more terrorists? tell me what would of been the solution to the problem, can ya do that for me shitbrick?

It's September 2002... a terrorist "recruiter" is working the crowd of disaffected young men outside a mosque in, say, downtown Cairo or Riyadh or Baghdad or Fallujah.... and tells the crowd that America is the great satan...and they are going to invade an oil rich arab country and occupy it with a christian army.... most of the crowd might listen, but shake their heads and think that their life may be pretty shitty...and unemployment might be high...and the royalty with the oil is living high while they suffered, but this great satan shit was a bit over the top. then America DOES exactly what the crazy recruiter said we would do...and a few weeks later, the young men at the mosque lose an uncle or a mother or sister to American bombs... and American bombs blow up the little machine shop where they used to work.... THAT is how the Iraq war equates to more terrorists.

What "problem" are we needing a solution for? 9/11? Invading Iraq was NEVER the solution to 9/11....even though Dubya sold it like one.... the "solution" does not lend itself to soundbites or even paragraphs...but chapters and volumes..and I have no inclination to write them out for you, when I am pretty sure you really don't care to read them anyway

maineman

08-15-2006, 01:26 PM

That was a simple comment you have been blasting me with, the fact is that OBL was a known terrorist long before you care to acknowledge.

You go ahead and just keep up the appeasement, I would never of expected less shitbrick!

it was a simple LIE borne of your ignorance. The fact is the OBL was not known to have done anything worth taking him into custody for prior to May of '96.... the world is full of bad guys.... and we cannot go kill them all.

and I have never said one word suggesting that anyone "appease" any terrorist. Quit spewing bullshit and try to communicate on an adult level...please.

Sir Evil

08-15-2006, 01:31 PM

What "problem" are we needing a solution for? 9/11? Invading Iraq was NEVER the solution to 9/11....even though Dubya sold it like one.... the "solution" does not lend itself to soundbites or even paragraphs...but chapters and volumes..and I have no inclination to write them out for you, when I am pretty sure you really don't care to read them anyway

coonie - cut the crap with your hypothetical opinions, I don't give a damn what raghead loses a leg, life little sister, brother, mother or whatever over one of our bombs! Fact is is they can't stand up on their own two feet to the tyranical leaders and take back their own dfamn countries then they don't deserve to call it their soil to begin with!

Now who the fuck said anything about Iraq being a solution to 911 you sympathizing, appeasing turd? Iraq was an issue many years before 911, and would of stayed that way so long as shitbricks like yourself had their way.

When the hell was Iraq going to be taken care of? how long should the issue of been taking up time by you beloved UN?

Sir Evil

08-15-2006, 01:34 PM

it was a simple LIE borne of your ignorance. The fact is the OBL was not known to have done anything worth taking him into custody for prior to May of '96.... the world is full of bad guys.... and we cannot go kill them all.

Then tell me shitbrick, why does your party make a cry every other day that we have'nt caught OBL like it would make a huge difference anyway.
Giftwrap it anyway you want coonie, the world knows Billy turned his back on the chance to have him.

and I have never said one word suggesting that anyone "appease" any terrorist. Quit spewing bullshit and try to communicate on an adult level...please.

Stop whining like a little bitch, ya dished it out my first day here and now ya wanna cry about it! how very typical......

Sir Evil

08-15-2006, 01:47 PM

Hey where did ya go coonie? I don't have all day to hang around ya know! Ok, well when ya change your panties come back to finish the conversation! :cool:

uscitizen

08-15-2006, 01:55 PM

Sorry Evil about that related to dixie thing earlier, you have more class :)

Sir Evil

08-15-2006, 02:02 PM

Sorry Evil about that related to dixie thing earlier, you have more class :)

NP, but is' cool, I know I am a arrogant, irritating, trash talking kinda guy! :clink:

uscitizen

08-15-2006, 02:08 PM

NP, but is' cool, I know I am a arrogant, irritating, trash talking kinda guy! :clink:

I am super observant to have picked up on that subtle nature of yours :clink:

Sir Evil

08-15-2006, 02:28 PM

I am super observant to have picked up on that subtle nature of yours :clink:

Staring to detect a bit of sarcasm here, but agree that you are a super observant kinda guy, too bad you don't use that absorbent mind for a nice little intellectual post! :p

uscitizen

08-15-2006, 02:30 PM

I tried an intellectual post once my super absorbent head just kept filling up with crap from the other posts. Too messy to repeat the experience.

Sir Evil

08-15-2006, 02:34 PM

I tried an intellectual post once my super absorbent head just kept filling up with crap from the other posts. Too messy to repeat the experience.

I hear dat! same happened here, now I gotta slap you fruityasses around a bit til' your shoes fall off! Still I don't think it will end up anwhere near resembeling anything intellucual though....

uscitizen

08-15-2006, 03:11 PM

I hear dat! same happened here, now I gotta slap you fruityasses around a bit til' your shoes fall off! Still I don't think it will end up anwhere near resembeling anything intellucual though....

I sure hope not on the intellectual issue.

Bring it on evilla :):BKick:

Sir Evil

08-15-2006, 03:22 PM

I sure hope not on the intellectual issue.

Bring it on evilla :):BKick:

Hmmm, not sure I wanna go there with an old guy! maybe on a fresh thread where the likes of coonie can't taint it before it gets started!

uscitizen

08-15-2006, 03:24 PM

Hye evil why not take on Dixie ? I think you could have him babblin in short order. My poor old stomach is not up to the job.
Well gotta go for the day, have trees to cut.

Sir Evil

08-15-2006, 03:28 PM

Hye evil why not take on Dixie ? I think you could have him babblin in short order. My poor old stomach is not up to the job.
Well gotta go for the day, have trees to cut.

I hear lot's bout this dixie person so perhaps in the future.
Damn, cuttin' up the trees? and here I thought you were the type that lived for them.

maineman

08-15-2006, 07:38 PM

Sir Evil

08-15-2006, 07:58 PM

just got back from taking ALL the money at my Tuesday nite golf league....+3 for nine, and closest to the pin on BOTH par 3's.....

I dished it out to YOU, Evil, because you were a ignorant douchebag who tried to say that Ollie North had warned us about Osama when it was a fucking LIE. You "dish it out" and it is just words. I have said nothing you can hang anything on. I speak the truth and I am smarter than you'll EVER be, asshole. Just lick your fucking wounds and get the fuck out of Dodge.

lol, whata shitbrick! You harp on this single thing that I mentioned in a thread my first day here. I presented you with some info after a 2 second search, and you have presented exactly squat outside of who in what tribe represents what believe like I might give a shit!

Now stop acting like a little bitch!

maineman

08-15-2006, 08:09 PM

Sir Evil

08-15-2006, 08:17 PM

the single thing you mentioned was a lie... and a lie that proves you are just a partisan hack who believes anything Rush and the boys tell you and that you are incapable of any sort of intellecutal discourse.... you have yet to catch me in one of those. come on back when you do

lol, ya got me on that one, shame on me for reading into it further before speaking! However what really have you said in any of our exchanges that had any real intellectual value anyway? Face it maincoon, like your avatar says, you are yellow, your a democrat, and most importanly a shitbrick! :cof1:

maineman

08-15-2006, 08:33 PM

lots of talk...no action.... and lies....

you have yet to engage me in anything appraoching intellectual discourse. Do you want to talk about middle eatern foreign affairs? I doubt you have much to offer if you think that Ollie ever heard of OBL.... you are a neophyte there....what else? Connecticut primary? Bush's plummeting poll numbers? All I have seen from you so far is insults and cute little drinking happy faces. Do you HAVE anything else, or should I just go off to bed?

maineman

08-16-2006, 05:38 AM

I guess I was wise to head off to bed when I did and not wait around for anything of intellectual content coming from Dr. Evil. lol

uscitizen

08-16-2006, 06:53 AM

I hear lot's bout this dixie person so perhaps in the future.
Damn, cuttin' up the trees? and here I thought you were the type that lived for them.

Evil, you will have a bit of trouble pidgeonholing me. And don't even thing about cornholing me :)
I don't hang with or follow groups, pretty much a lone wolf.

Sir Evil

08-17-2006, 11:38 AM

I guess I was wise to head off to bed when I did and not wait around for anything of intellectual content coming from Dr. Evil. lol

Yeah good idea coon, I have nothing to offer to such an elitist of message board politics as someone like you.

Well now that you have schooled me on what tribe represents what kind of terrorism, what's next oh wise coon?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

maineman

08-17-2006, 07:38 PM

OrnotBitwise

08-18-2006, 09:10 AM

Sir Evil

08-18-2006, 05:00 PM

what would be the next topic that you think you know something about that you wish to get schooled in? I will readily admit that there are a large number of political topics that I have little to no expertise in, so if you chose one of those, I'll be gracious enough to defer. Pick one I know something about, and I'll be glad to expose your idiocy. Your choice.

Well then, school me on the Bush family relation to the Bin Laden family, and while at it show me how that has done something as damaging as a wannabe like Gore heading over to the saudi's and ripping America the way he did.

Now understand I know you are a shitbrick, and only see things through your democratic goggles but it would be most excellent if you can explain one bit how any good could of come from what Gore did, or at least make a good excuse for the clown. School me.........:cool:

Sir Evil

08-18-2006, 05:02 PM

Nice jab but you left yourself open, maineman. Definitely your point though.

Where are we now, Round 6? :cof1:

Ahhh noticed the jab did ya Ornery? How about throwing a couple of your own and school me yourself, or is it just easier to ride under the wings of the shitbrick?

Sir Evil

08-18-2006, 05:19 PM

Scratch this thought unless you wanna go through this one too but I made a thread especially for you to school me:

http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?t=461

maineman

08-19-2006, 08:01 AM

I don't think that Gore's speech in Saudi Arabia DID any harm to America. He is entitled to express his opinion.

Regarding the Bush family and the bin Laden family... I would never suggest that the business relationships between two fairly upstanding families are to blame for the actions and subsequent reactions of two of their less upstanding members.

note: I used the word "fairly" above because in this instance I have ignored the Prescott Bush-Adolf Hitler connection which does blight the past of one of those families.

Sir Evil

08-19-2006, 10:48 AM

I don't think that Gore's speech in Saudi Arabia DID any harm to America. He is entitled to express his opinion.

Kinda figured that you would see it that way.:rolleyes:

Just like the majority of the left party, they have taken their shots whenver possible against this administration for political gain. When a political figure such as Gore heads to saudi and cries the blues it shown the dissention in America, and who do you think is laughing about all that?

You would think I am a neo-con by the way I post, well I am far from it but to be honest I have seen the way the left has worked over the past couple years and it is anything but good for America! I would never vote democrat again for the actions of the past couple years from these pinheads, the democratic party is in more need of re-tooling then the UN.

Like the way things or going or not, the whole political scheme should be working together, and showing a little cohesion but instead the left is more interested in gaining votes at the moment.....:rolleyes:

Care4all

08-19-2006, 02:13 PM

I would never vote democrat again for the actions of the past couple years from these pinheads, ...

hmmmmmm? who does that sound like?

OrnotBitwise

08-19-2006, 03:10 PM

I would never vote democrat again for the actions of the past couple years from these pinheads, ...

hmmmmmm? who does that sound like?
Bill Griffith. :)

No way Wevil is Dicks. He may be a pusilanimous pipsqueak -- actually, he is -- but he's not he-who-shall-not-be-named-without-laughing. Too smart.

Sir Evil

08-19-2006, 03:13 PM

I would never vote democrat again for the actions of the past couple years from these pinheads, ...

hmmmmmm? who does that sound like?

Damn is there anything else that one can say around here? witty comeback though......:rolleyes:

Cypress

08-19-2006, 03:48 PM

Sir Evil

08-19-2006, 06:08 PM

I have seen the way the left has worked over the past couple years and it is anything but good for America! I would never vote democrat again for the actions of the past couple years from these pinheads...

ROFLMAO!

A message board classic! - I've seen it dozens of times on multiple boards: As soon as Bush's poll numbers tank, tons of alleged "former" democrats rush to their keyboards to decry the partisanship of the Democratic party, and to vow they'll "never vote Democrat" again! (note, they can't even get the name of their "former" party correct: Democratic

Holy hell shitbrick, you finally managed to say something without copy & pasting!

One problem there shirley, I never claimed to of been of any party period! fact is I freely choose a candidate that for me seems the best choice.

Unlike the majority of you shitbricks around here I have not cried the same old rhetoric, posted mass statisticals from around the net, relied upon so called polls.... I just say what is on my mind in my own words, for the most part it serves me well, sometimes I screw up, unlike you Cyphilis I can claim to have something to say that is my own, and not something that has been spent like a two-bit hooker working the Saturday night late shift! :321:

:cof1:

Gaffer

08-20-2006, 05:07 PM

I agree with you SE. the polls and statistics mean nothing. The libs will still lose cause they have nothing to offer except hate speech and lies.

Bush has no need of polls, he's in his last term. they need to get over it and talk about what they intend to do not how much they hate Bush. Who will they blame when they lose in the midterm elections?

Scanning through the other posts in this thread i see the same old lib talking points with nothing being offered as to what they want to do. maybe the saddam lovers could get him sentenced to being the head of the democratic party, he could replace that worthless piece of shit dean and bring in his old propaganda minister. There was a man who really knew how to tell tall tales.

And after all what did saddam do really, he just killed a few hundred thousand of his own people. The dems can rehabilitate him. He was/is a meglomaniac but then so is howard dean. And most importantly he hates Bush that makes him an honorary member of the democratic party right there.

Annie

08-21-2006, 06:10 PM

I may be straying off topic here, but as for the elections I think both parties have problems. The Democrats have not been consistant that they think we have a problem. The problem with that is that Joe Blow recognizes that we really do.

The Republicans have a problem via the administration, sounding 'tough' one minute, then sounding pc the next. Nowhere what this dicotomy more evident than in the current crisis in Lebanon. Olmert failed, that is a given, but what should the administration have done?

Pressured Olmert to attack. If that failed, used other conduits in Israel to bring him down. That wasn't even attempted.

Made sure, that US position was clear in UN, which it wasn't. Then Condi became French, we will be paying for that until something happens to override. (I would have said for 'years', but it will be less than that, due to the war, that isn't declared, but should be.)