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apple0154
08-14-2011, 04:52 AM
Survivalist: a person who makes preparations to survive a widespread catastrophe, as an atomic war or anarchy, especially by storing food and weapons in a safe place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7JnClHTCUQ&feature=player_embedded#at=134

Should a widespread catastrophe occur what is the point of having a three or six month supply of food? I can see the validity of having a week's supply of food in the case a storm knocks out roads, etc. but things return to normal after a short period of time.

What happens after an atomic war? Total anarchy? Is the guy in the video going to be able to defend himself against the entire neighborhood if the people know he has food? Won't the community go door to door and gather up all the food to be rationed amongst the population?

If the guy won't come out of his house and share his supplies why wouldn't the community simply burn the house to the ground? It would only take one instance of that happening and people who stockpiled would know they either share or risk being burned alive in their home. All his weapons and biologically sealed suits are not going to protect him or his family.

So, what is the point of pretending he's a warrior defending a "fortress" when a can of gas siphoned from a neighbor's car and a match will take him down, literally down to ashes?

Guns Guns Guns
08-14-2011, 11:03 AM
These are the same assholes (like Tim McVeigh and SmarterThanFew) that either commit cowardly acts of domestic terrorism or post BS on the internet as mighty keyboard warriors.



http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m76/DrewziG71/militia.jpg

apple0154
08-14-2011, 12:27 PM
These are the same assholes (like Tim McVeigh and SmarterThanFew) that either commit cowardly acts of domestic terrorism or post BS on the internet as mighty keyboard warriors.



http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m76/DrewziG71/militia.jpg

Is that Radar O'Reilly on the left?

http://whatever.losito.net/images/gary.jpg

Good Luck
08-14-2011, 12:34 PM
First, while a localized disaster, such a tornado, hurricane, earthquake, etc. are most often dealt with inside a week or two, that is not always the case. Look at the Katrina disaster. We are STILL rebuilding in some places. Look at the flooding in the midwest - some areas under water for more than a month. Not all disasters are over in a week, and in many case, especially in more rural areas, such as the flooded areas of the midwest, it is easier to have a good place to retreat to preplanned, with necessities prestocked, than to try to create a temporary residence and stock it after a disaster has caused evacuation.

Second, nuclear war and such are not the only things which can disrupt the economy long term. Say a big conventional war breaks out in the middle east, disrupting all oil exports from that region for an indefinite period. What effect will that have on our transport industry? If we are having difficulty with proper distribution of goods, what do people do until things sort themselves out? A major conflict which disrupts, or even puts a long-term end to foreign oil imports, a scenario which is NOT all that highly improbable, will bring our economy to a grinding halt, and will stay that way for many months.

In such a scenario, we could easily be faced with collapse of the urban areas. All cities are only three days away from starvation when in comes to available food stocks. If new stocks are not constantly delivered from rural agricultural areas, the cities go down, which in turn would take ddown a significant portion of our power infrastructure, since most power plants are closely associated with urban areas. Such a disruption would take several months, if not a year or more, to recover from.

And while such have a very low probability of occurring, it is not impossible, not by a long shot. And the probability of something major happening gets more likely every day in the current global economic environment. With socialist economies such as Greece failing and threatening to take more down with them, Spain, France, Germany, even England, we are looking at, the very least, significant disruption of our economy as a side effect. We're already seeing it. Imagine the effect Europe-wide riots such as England and Greece are currently dealing with, and what that could do to the economy. What happens if the fledgling and very unstable government in Iraq ends up in power vacuum - the further instability in that area could and would cause in the oil industry, and the effect that would have on our already unstable economy. Instability builds on instability, and the threat of the whole thing crashing down around our ears becomes more real every day.

At no time in history can I find conditions which are more threatening to cause a major, catastrophic disruption of the world's economies, the type of which that would make the Great Depression look like a relative dot-com surge. Such disruptions would put many, many people on their own for a significant period of time - months to a year or more.

Besides that, stocking up on groceries and such are always a good hedge against inflation, if nothing really bad does happen.

The only survivalists I question are the ones looking for things like food stores with 10 year shelf lives, heirloom seeds for ongoing, multiple years of gardening without restocking seeds from the market, electrical generators designed to last for decades, and the basic outlook of being totally (yea, right) self-sufficient for ten years or more. The only things I can imagine that would take things down to a self-survival or die situation for more than two, three years at most, would be a global nuclear war, or a major meteor strike, both of which would be unlikely to survive long term, regardless of preparations.

But the need for months, if not a year or more of reasonable self sufficiency? I do not believe that to be so unlikely as to disregard it. Unlikely, yes, but possible enough to take it seriously.

Conservative
08-14-2011, 12:42 PM
Can we expect more scenes like this when Obama is defeated? Then it might be necessary to have supplies and be prepared to defend your life and property from community organizers.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF0N1QoRjlA

SmarterthanYou
08-14-2011, 12:49 PM
Survivalist: a person who makes preparations to survive a widespread catastrophe, as an atomic war or anarchy, especially by storing food and weapons in a safe place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7JnClHTCUQ&feature=player_embedded#at=134

Should a widespread catastrophe occur what is the point of having a three or six month supply of food? I can see the validity of having a week's supply of food in the case a storm knocks out roads, etc. but things return to normal after a short period of time.

What happens after an atomic war? Total anarchy? Is the guy in the video going to be able to defend himself against the entire neighborhood if the people know he has food? Won't the community go door to door and gather up all the food to be rationed amongst the population?

If the guy won't come out of his house and share his supplies why wouldn't the community simply burn the house to the ground? It would only take one instance of that happening and people who stockpiled would know they either share or risk being burned alive in their home. All his weapons and biologically sealed suits are not going to protect him or his family.

So, what is the point of pretending he's a warrior defending a "fortress" when a can of gas siphoned from a neighbor's car and a match will take him down, literally down to ashes?

how close do you think those neighbors will come if they know they are gonna be shot? It's nothing but simple cowardice when idiots like legion troll throw insults at those that do stockpile for widespread catastrophes, or maybe it's fear and incompetence when others (you maybe?) question the wisdom of stockpiling and preparation as they talk about things righting themselves soon enough. It's that blind faith in government swooping down to save the day that will kill more people in the beginning and middle than it will in the end.

Don't doubt for a second that the breakdown of society, once it starts, will downward spiral in to chaos and anarchy as families look for ways to ensure their own survival over that of the community.

Conservative
08-14-2011, 01:17 PM
I predict that when Obama loses the election we will see riots and bloodshed in this country that will make the Black riots in England look like church picnics. We have to prepare.

Guns Guns Guns
08-14-2011, 01:22 PM
Killed any police lately, SmarterThanFew?



That's what I thought.




http://www.boundless.org/2005/images/articles/1791_large.jpg

Conservative
08-14-2011, 01:26 PM
November 2012- these scenes will be magnified when Obama loses. If you aren't prepared you will perish.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oce3l90_Xrc

Good Luck
08-14-2011, 03:27 PM
If the guy won't come out of his house and share his supplies why wouldn't the community simply burn the house to the ground? It would only take one instance of that happening and people who stockpiled would know they either share or risk being burned alive in their home. All his weapons and biologically sealed suits are not going to protect him or his family. So, what is the point of pretending he's a warrior defending a "fortress" when a can of gas siphoned from a neighbor's car and a match will take him down, literally down to ashes?
And there is lies the bottom line mentality of the modern liberal. If someone else has the foresight to have prepared for a long term catastrophe, community has the right to murder and steal from said individual if they refuse to share. And, of course, typical of liberal thinking, they'll undoubtedly destroy that which they are trying to attain in the process. No wonder the world is so fucked up. Your type goes on about how survivalists are weird, make fun of them, question their tactics. Yet in the end, you have no problem with murdering them and stealing what you should have been providing for yourselves, as he did. Pathetic sub-human weasels, the fucking lot of you.

cancel2 2022
08-14-2011, 04:18 PM
First, while a localized disaster, such a tornado, hurricane, earthquake, etc. are most often dealt with inside a week or two, that is not always the case. Look at the Katrina disaster. We are STILL rebuilding in some places. Look at the flooding in the midwest - some areas under water for more than a month. Not all disasters are over in a week, and in many case, especially in more rural areas, such as the flooded areas of the midwest, it is easier to have a good place to retreat to preplanned, with necessities prestocked, than to try to create a temporary residence and stock it after a disaster has caused evacuation.

Second, nuclear war and such are not the only things which can disrupt the economy long term. Say a big conventional war breaks out in the middle east, disrupting all oil exports from that region for an indefinite period. What effect will that have on our transport industry? If we are having difficulty with proper distribution of goods, what do people do until things sort themselves out? A major conflict which disrupts, or even puts a long-term end to foreign oil imports, a scenario which is NOT all that highly improbable, will bring our economy to a grinding halt, and will stay that way for many months.

In such a scenario, we could easily be faced with collapse of the urban areas. All cities are only three days away from starvation when in comes to available food stocks. If new stocks are not constantly delivered from rural agricultural areas, the cities go down, which in turn would take ddown a significant portion of our power infrastructure, since most power plants are closely associated with urban areas. Such a disruption would take several months, if not a year or more, to recover from.

And while such have a very low probability of occurring, it is not impossible, not by a long shot. And the probability of something major happening gets more likely every day in the current global economic environment. With socialist economies such as Greece failing and threatening to take more down with them, Spain, France, Germany, even England, we are looking at, the very least, significant disruption of our economy as a side effect. We're already seeing it. Imagine the effect Europe-wide riots such as England and Greece are currently dealing with, and what that could do to the economy. What happens if the fledgling and very unstable government in Iraq ends up in power vacuum - the further instability in that area could and would cause in the oil industry, and the effect that would have on our already unstable economy. Instability builds on instability, and the threat of the whole thing crashing down around our ears becomes more real every day.

At no time in history can I find conditions which are more threatening to cause a major, catastrophic disruption of the world's economies, the type of which that would make the Great Depression look like a relative dot-com surge. Such disruptions would put many, many people on their own for a significant period of time - months to a year or more.

Besides that, stocking up on groceries and such are always a good hedge against inflation, if nothing really bad does happen.

The only survivalists I question are the ones looking for things like food stores with 10 year shelf lives, heirloom seeds for ongoing, multiple years of gardening without restocking seeds from the market, electrical generators designed to last for decades, and the basic outlook of being totally (yea, right) self-sufficient for ten years or more. The only things I can imagine that would take things down to a self-survival or die situation for more than two, three years at most, would be a global nuclear war, or a major meteor strike, both of which would be unlikely to survive long term, regardless of preparations.

But the need for months, if not a year or more of reasonable self sufficiency? I do not believe that to be so unlikely as to disregard it. Unlikely, yes, but possible enough to take it seriously.

England, as you quaintly refer to the UK, still has a triple A rating from the all the rating agencies.

/MSG/
08-14-2011, 04:44 PM
England, as you quaintly refer to the UK, still has a triple A rating from the all the rating agencies.

Which is irrelevent to the discussion at hand.

Good Luck
08-14-2011, 05:26 PM
England, as you quaintly refer to the UK, still has a triple A rating from the all the rating agencies.
And your precious credit rating has exactly what to do with what I wrote about the purpose of long term preparations?

Prince Charles
08-14-2011, 06:05 PM
In Britain no one need fear their own government, nor is there a need to cower behind a personal arsenal with a cellarful of Yank corn-derived "rations".

Good Luck
08-14-2011, 07:21 PM
In Britain no one need fear their own government, nor is there a need to cower behind a personal arsenal with a cellarful of Yank corn-derived "rations".
Really? So the riots are not real?

Prince Charles
08-14-2011, 07:31 PM
Who said they were not real, you foolish little man?

As you would realise if you lifted your Yank eyes from ogling Madames Bachmann and Palin, the late disturbances were dealt with by the duly constituted authorities, rather than by a self-deputised band of vigilantes.

/MSG/
08-14-2011, 07:47 PM
Really? So the riots are not real?

Don't feed the troll.

SmarterthanYou
08-15-2011, 06:26 AM
In Britain no one need fear their own government, nor is there a need to cower behind a personal arsenal with a cellarful of Yank corn-derived "rations".

the news stories i've read over the last few years would reveal your statement to be ridiculously wrong.

Guns Guns Guns
08-15-2011, 11:21 AM
http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Uploads/Graphics/173-0106213529-survivalists.jpg

apple0154
08-15-2011, 02:22 PM
And there is lies the bottom line mentality of the modern liberal. If someone else has the foresight to have prepared for a long term catastrophe, community has the right to murder and steal from said individual if they refuse to share. And, of course, typical of liberal thinking, they'll undoubtedly destroy that which they are trying to attain in the process. No wonder the world is so fucked up. Your type goes on about how survivalists are weird, make fun of them, question their tactics. Yet in the end, you have no problem with murdering them and stealing what you should have been providing for yourselves, as he did. Pathetic sub-human weasels, the fucking lot of you.

My goodness! Take a chill pill.

I was only trying to show the futility of it all. Survivalists in a remote location may have a chance to deal with the odd straggler and even end up with a pot of homo sapien goulash but in an urban/suburban area, not a chance. If there is a situation like you describe, a duration of weeks or months, people are going to come a-callin'. I suggest a concrete panic room otherwise you'll either have house guests or no house.

Hermes Thoth
08-15-2011, 03:16 PM
but things return to normal after a short period of time.

Do you have any documentation of this fact?

Phantasmal
08-15-2011, 03:34 PM
In case of long term disasters, I plan to just rob all the Latter Day Saints!

Phantasmal
08-15-2011, 03:35 PM
My goodness! Take a chill pill.

I was only trying to show the futility of it all. Survivalists in a remote location may have a chance to deal with the odd straggler and even end up with a pot of homo sapien goulash but in an urban/suburban area, not a chance. If there is a situation like you describe, a duration of weeks or months, people are going to come a-callin'. I suggest a concrete panic room otherwise you'll either have house guests or no house.

So, you suggest when I buy my retirement home I look for one built in the 50's with a bomb shelter?

Phantasmal
08-15-2011, 03:36 PM
Honestly, I hope the bomb lands on my house. I can't reproduce, so I wouldn't help the future of humankind and I am not cut out to be a survivalist, my idea of roughing it these days is room service!

/MSG/
08-15-2011, 04:29 PM
In case of long term disasters, I plan to just rob all the Latter Day Saints!
Mormons will put up a pretty mean fight. John Moses Browning was a devout Mormon.

apple0154
08-15-2011, 04:43 PM
Do you have any documentation of this fact?

I wrote, "I can see the validity of having a week's supply of food in the case a storm knocks out roads, etc. but things return to normal after a short period of time."

Do you have any documentation of the opposite?

apple0154
08-15-2011, 04:46 PM
So, you suggest when I buy my retirement home I look for one built in the 50's with a bomb shelter?

I'm looking forward to a group home. The ratio of females to males is most promising. :)

If things become too bad there are meds to help go gracefully into the long night.

apple0154
08-15-2011, 04:48 PM
Honestly, I hope the bomb lands on my house. I can't reproduce, so I wouldn't help the future of humankind and I am not cut out to be a survivalist, my idea of roughing it these days is room service!

I'm with you.

As for reproducing I guess I'll take a wait and see approach.

SmarterthanYou
08-15-2011, 05:05 PM
My goodness! Take a chill pill.

I was only trying to show the futility of it all. Survivalists in a remote location may have a chance to deal with the odd straggler and even end up with a pot of homo sapien goulash but in an urban/suburban area, not a chance. If there is a situation like you describe, a duration of weeks or months, people are going to come a-callin'. I suggest a concrete panic room otherwise you'll either have house guests or no house.

something i'd love for a liberal/socialist/statist community oriented person to tell me is why do you constantly consider anyone who has alot of firearms, stockpiles food/water/ammo, and takes combat training courses, nothing but a pushover at the slightest bit of confrontation? Do you think that in my suburban area, the people around me are just going to mob my home to steal my shit? and not get shot?

Phantasmal
08-15-2011, 05:12 PM
something i'd love for a liberal/socialist/statist community oriented person to tell me is why do you constantly consider anyone who has alot of firearms, stockpiles food/water/ammo, and takes combat training courses, nothing but a pushover at the slightest bit of confrontation? Do you think that in my suburban area, the people around me are just going to mob my home to steal my shit? and not get shot?


Well, you may get a few of them, but when the horde is large enough, you and your guns won't last forever!

SmarterthanYou
08-15-2011, 05:14 PM
Well, you may get a few of them, but when the horde is large enough, you and your guns won't last forever!

experience tells me that when the first gunshot is fired, people tend to flee, not attack.

Phantasmal
08-15-2011, 05:18 PM
Not desperate people...

apple0154
08-15-2011, 06:29 PM
something i'd love for a liberal/socialist/statist community oriented person to tell me is why do you constantly consider anyone who has alot of firearms, stockpiles food/water/ammo, and takes combat training courses, nothing but a pushover at the slightest bit of confrontation? Do you think that in my suburban area, the people around me are just going to mob my home to steal my shit? and not get shot?

Do you think liberal/socialist/statist community oriented persons with hungry children are not going to try to get food if they believe you have some? Do you think the liberal/socialist/statist community oriented neighbors are not going to help them?

Taking into account mob mentality you best take into account that once you fire that first shot you're a marked man.

SmarterthanYou
08-15-2011, 06:34 PM
Do you think liberal/socialist/statist community oriented persons with hungry children are not going to try to get food if they believe you have some? Do you think the liberal/socialist/statist community oriented neighbors are not going to help them?

Taking into account mob mentality you best take into account that once you fire that first shot you're a marked man.

guess i better get more ammo then. It's pretty telling though, the mindset the 'trust the gov' people have. If they can't get gov help, they'll just kill their survivalist neighbors.

Rune
08-15-2011, 07:12 PM
Posted by Good luck,

The only survivalists I question are the ones looking for things like food stores with 10 year shelf lives, heirloom seeds for ongoing, multiple years of gardening without restocking seeds from the market,
electrical generators designed to last for decades,

So you are saying I should get rid of the 25 KW diesel generator I scored from the Civil Defence and stop aquiring heirloom seeds?

WinterBorn
08-15-2011, 07:18 PM
Posted by Good luck,

The only survivalists I question are the ones looking for things like food stores with 10 year shelf lives, heirloom seeds for ongoing, multiple years of gardening without restocking seeds from the market,
electrical generators designed to last for decades,

So you are saying I should get rid of the 25 KW diesel generator I scored from the Civil Defence and stop aquiring heirloom seeds?

I would say don't wait to plant those heirloom seeds.

apple0154
08-15-2011, 08:04 PM
guess i better get more ammo then. It's pretty telling though, the mindset the 'trust the gov' people have. If they can't get gov help, they'll just kill their survivalist neighbors.

Only if the survivalist neighbors shoot first. The folks who require help will just be knocking on doors.

What is telling is it appears the survivalists would see children die rather than share if your posts are an accurate representation.

/MSG/
08-15-2011, 10:30 PM
Only if the survivalist neighbors shoot first. The folks who require help will just be knocking on doors.

What is telling is it appears the survivalists would see children die rather than share if your posts are an accurate representation.
Ummm no. Your entire argument is flawed in a serious way. Here is how it would likely go down.

Survivalist has house full of supploes, water, guns, other stuff (radio, medicine, etc). Catastrophe strikes. Survivalist calls his/her buddies (some of whom are also equally prepared). Thus a network is formed. Said network bands together. Unprepared and unconnected community is unable to compete. Some will join if they have something to contribute themselves. Those that don't, most likely will die. It is sad, but what good would come from freely giving when the group in need is larger than the available supply? All that would happen is that the whole community would screw themselves and doom everyone, instead of the few who were smart/talented enough to survive doing so.

Good Luck
08-15-2011, 11:00 PM
Posted by Good luck,

The only survivalists I question are the ones looking for things like food stores with 10 year shelf lives, heirloom seeds for ongoing, multiple years of gardening without restocking seeds from the market,
electrical generators designed to last for decades,

So you are saying I should get rid of the 25 KW diesel generator I scored from the Civil Defence and stop aquiring heirloom seeds?
Not at all. Do what you think is best for you. I just question the actual need of planning for more than 2-3 years of forced self-sufficiency. Ultra-long shelf-life foods cost 4-5 times as much as the same nutrition and calories as everyday canned and dried foods, which have shelf lives of 3-5 years, which is more than enough IMO.

Heirloom seeds cost 2-3 times as much as seeds you can buy in garden stores, and 5 or more time as much as the cheap stuff you can get at supermarket garden centers. I personally do not believe any catastrophe of reasonable probability could lead to more than 3 years at the very outside of collapse to the point of near-self sufficiency to survive, so don't see the need for plans to harvest seeds for the next season as a survival technique. Others disagree with me, and I simply question that. Being on a somewhat limited income, I buy less expensive items in larger bulk, be it canned foods or seeds. I get the same effect - except for shelf life values which I don't believe are essential. Plus, by buying every day foods, I won't need to worry about needing a radical change in my diet should the worst happen.

Of course, why one would choose those things can vary. Your reasons may have absolutely nothing to do with survival. For instance some prefer heirloom seeds because they mistrust the genetic modified seeds that you get elsewhere. Again, I don't believe that to be a problem, but to each their own.

25KW diesel generator? Going to convert the diesel engine to biofuels? More power to you there. Get the thing running and take yourself off the grid, catastrophe or not. Myself, I have a 10KW that can run off propane or natural gas/methane. Have used it a couple times during power-outages that lasted a couple days each. Last time saved a lot of trouble, as it was 35 below both nights of the outage. I also know how to distill methane from compost heaps. I don't believe I'll need to rely on it for more than a couple-three years should the absolute worst happen, but by running off compost methane, I don't have to try to store three years worth of propane.

Survival preparations are an individual thing. Some are prepping for a level of collapse that I, personally, think have either a zero chance of occurring, or that such an event would wipe us out, anyway, prepared or not. I am prepared to weather out a collapse that could leave us on our own - or mostly on our own - for a few years. My thought is if more is needed, survival is less than likely anyway.

Good Luck
08-15-2011, 11:22 PM
My goodness! Take a chill pill.

I was only trying to show the futility of it all. Survivalists in a remote location may have a chance to deal with the odd straggler and even end up with a pot of homo sapien goulash but in an urban/suburban area, not a chance. If there is a situation like you describe, a duration of weeks or months, people are going to come a-callin'. I suggest a concrete panic room otherwise you'll either have house guests or no house.
First, MOST urban survivalists don't advertise their preparations for disaster, and have no plans to advertise them should disaster occur. The you-tube guy looks more like a braggart than a genuine survivalist to me. He's comes off as a wacko - not for being a survivalist, but for bragging about it and showing off his guns like he expects to be some kind of urban warrior or something. Most survivalists are not even remotely like that guy.

Second, many urban survivalists plan on taking their stashes and heading for a BOL if/when the balloon goes up.

Third, the vast majority of people - even if caught up in mob mentality - are not mentally nor physically prepared for a confrontation - especially a lethal one - in searching for food. If people, even mobs, find themselves up against a fortified position, they are far more likely to move on to softer targets than to push the issue. Who wants to get killed for a can of Hormel, even if desperate? It does you no good to get shot if your intent is to get food. The idea that a survivalist cannot "get them all" if the mob is big enough is plain silly. If a desperate mob goes up against an equally desperate, but armed man, and the mob has to storm him in the protection of his home, many of that mob WILL be killed. How are you going to guarantee you are not one of the casualties? Are you willing to die in that manner so that someone else may get that coveted can of Hormel chili? There aren't many - very close to if not at zero - who would say yes to that question. And, further, most people who ARE willing to consider outright combat for food are also the type who will have their own stores.

And the idea of burning a house down because somebody has stores they won't share is asinine in the extreme. What good does it do to destroy what you are after? Who, besides a sociopath, would do murder of that nature just to "teach the guy a lesson"?

Finally, "futile" preparations are still better than none at all.

Guns Guns Guns
08-16-2011, 05:08 AM
Awesome.


Just like the gunlover cult, survivalists are totally possessed by fear.




http://www.armchairsurvivalist.com/armchairlogo2.jpg

SmarterthanYou
08-16-2011, 12:36 PM
Only if the survivalist neighbors shoot first. The folks who require help will just be knocking on doors.

What is telling is it appears the survivalists would see children die rather than share if your posts are an accurate representation.

you had your chance at self preservation before the emergency/crisis, yet all you could do was make fun of survivalists. where's your humor now?

Damocles
08-16-2011, 11:20 PM
The average grocery store has an average of three days worth of food, during emergencies they are usually cleaned out. What happens to you if an emergency lasts a bit longer than those three days? I'll tell you what happens to me... I go to storage and I eat. Preparing for a longer stretch without the luxuries isn't foolish, for some of us that live rurally it can definitely be a necessity.

apple0154
08-17-2011, 05:39 AM
Ummm no. Your entire argument is flawed in a serious way. Here is how it would likely go down.

Survivalist has house full of supploes, water, guns, other stuff (radio, medicine, etc). Catastrophe strikes. Survivalist calls his/her buddies (some of whom are also equally prepared). Thus a network is formed. Said network bands together. Unprepared and unconnected community is unable to compete. Some will join if they have something to contribute themselves. Those that don't, most likely will die. It is sad, but what good would come from freely giving when the group in need is larger than the available supply? All that would happen is that the whole community would screw themselves and doom everyone, instead of the few who were smart/talented enough to survive doing so.

A network is formed and band together? Do you mean they all move into one house? If the survivalist comes to the aid of another guy 6 blocks away that means his home is undefended.

Just look at the recent mob riots. Even the Police, which greatly out number the few survivalists, have difficulty with crowd control. It's wishful thinking a survivalist would survive unless they have a bunker of some sort. The mob will also have guns and access to things like construction equipment. Raise the blade in the bulldozer and CHARGE! Come out and share or be buried in the rubble that was once your home.

I do agree the entire community would be doomed. That's why it makes it a thing to be avoided at all costs.

Only those who are isolated will have a chance.

SmarterthanYou
08-17-2011, 05:47 AM
A network is formed and band together? Do you mean they all move into one house? If the survivalist comes to the aid of another guy 6 blocks away that means his home is undefended.
proper planning. this means that I either have a before hand agreement with my neighbors or a preplanned rally point with other survivalists. this means that my house may be undefended, but my stores are with me somewhere else.


Just look at the recent mob riots. Even the Police, which greatly out number the few survivalists, have difficulty with crowd control.
you're obviously missing the reason for the beginning of those riots, which was the murder of an unarmed citizen. The police using lethal force now would be like lighting a gas station on fire. It's not even comparable to a private individual/group of individuals defending themselves and their famiies. lethal force is the first and only means of defense.


It's wishful thinking a survivalist would survive unless they have a bunker of some sort. The mob will also have guns and access to things like construction equipment. Raise the blade in the bulldozer and CHARGE! Come out and share or be buried in the rubble that was once your home. that may be, but it merely enforces the image that the hypocrite liberals/statists actually prefer the slash and burn method when it's done by themselves. the question is, how many of you are willing to risk certain death as compared to possibly dying?


I do agree the entire community would be doomed. That's why it makes it a thing to be avoided at all costs.then maybe you should consider stockpiling for yourselves as well.

apple0154
08-17-2011, 06:30 AM
I really don't see the purpose of preparing for an extended period of severe conditions. People will attack their own government. It will bring down the entire country. The support network for the military will collapse as people working for the various suppliers will either be destitute also or they will be pitted against those without food. Basically, a civil war.

Of course, on the upside, it would put an end to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and probably result in bringing home troops from around the world to restore some kind of order here.

SmarterthanYou
08-17-2011, 08:22 AM
I really don't see the purpose of preparing for an extended period of severe conditions.

no kidding. you've already stated that you'd just kill your neighbors and steal theirs.

apple0154
08-17-2011, 07:44 PM
no kidding. you've already stated that you'd just kill your neighbors and steal theirs.

Now, now. I never said I'd do that but I bet people with young children who don't have any food will expect their neighbor to share if they have some. In the words of Ms. Palin they'll be like a mama grisly.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ8aGXXMM5E

Damocles
08-17-2011, 07:46 PM
Now, now. I never said I'd do that but I bet people with young children who don't have any food will expect their neighbor to share if they have some. In the words of Ms. Palin they'll be like a mama grisly.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ8aGXXMM5E

Come and get it fool. Your emergency plan is to steal from other people. Mine is to keep looters like you the frick away from my family.

/MSG/
08-17-2011, 07:56 PM
Now, now. I never said I'd do that but I bet people with young children who don't have any food will expect their neighbor to share if they have some. In the words of Ms. Palin they'll be like a mama grisly.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ8aGXXMM5E
Bears store food for later.

apple0154
08-17-2011, 08:08 PM
Come and get it fool. Your emergency plan is to steal from other people. Mine is to keep looters like you the frick away from my family.

Survivalists in urban and suburban areas won't have a chance. To paraphrase George-the Wild West cowboy-Bush, "We'll smoke 'em out. Hee. Hee. Hee."

Damocles
08-17-2011, 08:35 PM
Survivalists in urban and suburban areas won't have a chance. To paraphrase George-the Wild West cowboy-Bush, "We'll smoke 'em out. Hee. Hee. Hee."

I live rurally. However, my bet is survivalists in the urban and suburban areas will be better armed than you. You've already said you have no plan other than to take from those that prepared.

:D

It is most likely I'll never need it other than during the next blizzard. But we have food enough to last quite some time.

/MSG/
08-17-2011, 08:38 PM
Survivalists in urban and suburban areas won't have a chance. To paraphrase George-the Wild West cowboy-Bush, "We'll smoke 'em out. Hee. Hee. Hee."
How is that? they're hungry, my group is not. They're unarmed. My group is armed. We are in a known defensive position. The un armed hungry people are in an offensive with most likely no intelligence of the area they're trying to take. They'll be slaughtered.

Hermes Thoth
08-18-2011, 09:18 AM
I wrote, "I can see the validity of having a week's supply of food in the case a storm knocks out roads, etc. but things return to normal after a short period of time."

Do you have any documentation of the opposite?


You're the one stating that things always return to normal quickly. I believe they may or may not return to normal quickly. I don't profess to know how things always go. You do, however. Why are you certain things will always return to normal quickly? The past does not predict the future.

Hermes Thoth
08-18-2011, 11:07 AM
I live rurally. However, my bet is survivalists in the urban and suburban areas will be better armed than you. You've already said you have no plan other than to take from those that prepared.

:D

It is most likely I'll never need it other than during the next blizzard. But we have food enough to last quite some time.

Looters may be the least of your worries.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049 assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921 allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread452286/pg1

Damocles
08-18-2011, 01:49 PM
The government is a union of looters, AHZ.

Hermes Thoth
08-20-2011, 12:38 PM
The government is a union of looters, AHZ.

And the captains of industry are what? oh yeah, the ones who control the government.

Phantasmal
08-20-2011, 01:44 PM
And the captains of industry are what? oh yeah, the ones who control the government.

Yeah, Bank Of America is offering to help Rick Perry! Funny, will Perry "help them out"!

Guns Guns Guns
08-20-2011, 05:17 PM
Here we see a JPP rightwing survivalist in his secret bunker:



http://8.media.tumblr.com/3nGjrciqpq6rpkp6jKqyju4Fo1_500.jpg

apple0154
08-20-2011, 07:49 PM
You're the one stating that things always return to normal quickly. I believe they may or may not return to normal quickly. I don't profess to know how things always go. You do, however. Why are you certain things will always return to normal quickly? The past does not predict the future.

If things don't return to normal quickly how are the masses going to survive? There's no game to hunt in cities. It takes months to grow food. Unless one has a bunker/panic room they won't survive. The mob will attack. It's either attack or do nothing and die from starvation.

Damocles
08-20-2011, 08:05 PM
And the captains of industry are what? oh yeah, the ones who control the government.

If they allow themselves to be in bed with looters they too would be looters. Companies that gain government subsidy, or an undue contract, or a set regulation that would limit their competition... All of these would be looters.

/MSG/
08-20-2011, 09:05 PM
If things don't return to normal quickly how are the masses going to survive? There's no game to hunt in cities. It takes months to grow food. Unless one has a bunker/panic room they won't survive. The mob will attack. It's either attack or do nothing and die from starvation.
The masses won't survive.

WinterBorn
08-20-2011, 11:06 PM
Do you think liberal/socialist/statist community oriented persons with hungry children are not going to try to get food if they believe you have some? Do you think the liberal/socialist/statist community oriented neighbors are not going to help them?

Taking into account mob mentality you best take into account that once you fire that first shot you're a marked man.

First of all, how would they know I had some? I hadn't planned on cooking in the front yard. My door is barred and I am prepared to defend my home. That you think that people who failed to plan ahead deserve an equal share of what I had the foresight to store speaks volumes. I spent money on canned foods to store. They spent money on something else. Bad choices on their part, I would say.

WinterBorn
08-20-2011, 11:10 PM
Only if the survivalist neighbors shoot first. The folks who require help will just be knocking on doors.

What is telling is it appears the survivalists would see children die rather than share if your posts are an accurate representation.

The situation would dictate whether I answer my door or not. If not, they would try to break in.

I would prefer that everyone store away some food and necessities. Your remark accusing us of preferring to see children die rather than share is emotional drivel.

If I share to save this child, the next day I have more families with children begging for food. And then more and more and more. Until I am out of food and my own children starve.

WinterBorn
08-20-2011, 11:11 PM
Awesome.


Just like the gunlover cult, survivalists are totally possessed by fear.



And people with smoke alarms, fire extinguishers and homeowners insurance are living in fear?

WinterBorn
08-20-2011, 11:15 PM
Survivalists in urban and suburban areas won't have a chance. To paraphrase George-the Wild West cowboy-Bush, "We'll smoke 'em out. Hee. Hee. Hee."

Living in a rural area, that is not really a concern of mine. But I disagree with you. If someone has taken the time and forethought to store items, they would probably have prepared a way to make their home defensible. Yes, I am sure they could be burned out. But that is not the action of someone desperately trying to feed a child. That is the action of a vindictive asshole who wants to destroy what they cannot have.

WinterBorn
08-20-2011, 11:17 PM
If things don't return to normal quickly how are the masses going to survive? There's no game to hunt in cities. It takes months to grow food. Unless one has a bunker/panic room they won't survive. The mob will attack. It's either attack or do nothing and die from starvation.

Its either attack and die for sure, or go somewhere else and search for less dangerous food.

WinterBorn
08-20-2011, 11:25 PM
The biggest thing that the "people will take your supplies" advocates are forgetting is that we who prepared for this have done a fair amount of thinking about all the possibilities.

We prepared for them.



Suppose the world collapsed tomorrow. The grocery stores are empty in 2 days, and the food taken is gone by the end of the week. Except for those who have stored significant supplies, the suburbs and urban areas are out of food within 2 weeks. Now, without food howlong will the mob remain active and coherent? 3 weeks? A month? Suppose I hole up with my family for 6 weeks with no visible light and no activity? After that, we are still well fed and well rested. The mob is weak, disorganized and dying.

Not a serious threat.

WinterBorn
08-20-2011, 11:56 PM
Apple, suppose we who have prepared for a catastrophic event, do as you say or suggest?

I have my stores, and the first group with children get food. Do they leave and go somewhere else? No, they stay where there is food and hope to survive on my goodwill.

Now, suppose I live in an area with a population of 150k people. How long will my stores last? 3 days? A week? And then what? Do I pass out my guns and ammo and join the mob looking to raid someone else's stored supplies?

And if we don't find any, do my wife and daughter get taken away by men who have my guns? Do we all just roam around looking for the next handout until the gov't gets back on its feet and helps us?



The sad part is, with all of the overabundance in this nation, we have forgotten how to prepare for the bad times. All grasshoppers and no ants mean starvation in short order.

apple0154
08-21-2011, 06:41 AM
First of all, how would they know I had some? I hadn't planned on cooking in the front yard. My door is barred and I am prepared to defend my home. That you think that people who failed to plan ahead deserve an equal share of what I had the foresight to store speaks volumes. I spent money on canned foods to store. They spent money on something else. Bad choices on their part, I would say.

When people are starving what's right and wrong makes little difference.

As for them knowing what you have once the store shelves become empty groups of people will band together to try and survive just like humans did thousands of years ago. In urban and suburban areas they will pool their resources. If someone does not answer their door they will try to break in thinking the house is empty and salvage what they can. If someone refuses to open their home or starts shooting that's just as good as saying, "Hey, I have lots of food in here." That's when the "games" begin.

One or two people will not hold off a crowd of 50 or 100 hungry folks especially if they have young children. People will try to get in 24 hours a day or set the house on fire. They have nothing to lose and there's no one more dangerous than a person who has nothing to lose.

It will only be possible to hold out for a short period, maybe a few weeks, at most.

apple0154
08-21-2011, 06:46 AM
The situation would dictate whether I answer my door or not. If not, they would try to break in.

I would prefer that everyone store away some food and necessities. Your remark accusing us of preferring to see children die rather than share is emotional drivel.

If I share to save this child, the next day I have more families with children begging for food. And then more and more and more. Until I am out of food and my own children starve.

Emotional drivel or not the person with the starving child is not thinking about who is going to eat next week. It's all about today and to believe hungry mobs are just going to pass your house by is wishful thinking.

apple0154
08-21-2011, 07:03 AM
Living in a rural area, that is not really a concern of mine. But I disagree with you. If someone has taken the time and forethought to store items, they would probably have prepared a way to make their home defensible. Yes, I am sure they could be burned out. But that is not the action of someone desperately trying to feed a child. That is the action of a vindictive asshole who wants to destroy what they cannot have.

Maybe so but there will be plenty of vindictive assholes in the crowd. Like in any other circumstance the more one tries to protect something the more others imagine there's lots to protect. The word will quickly get around that the house at a certain location must have a large stash of supplies.

The bottom line being the hungry, the thugs, the assholes have nothing to lose. If one is not sharing the gang may as well burn the place to the ground. And let's not forget the person in the house is probably in touch with other survivalists via radio. Once they hear the crackling of the fire and then dead air.....they may think twice when people come a-callin'.

apple0154
08-21-2011, 07:28 AM
Apple, suppose we who have prepared for a catastrophic event, do as you say or suggest?

I have my stores, and the first group with children get food. Do they leave and go somewhere else? No, they stay where there is food and hope to survive on my goodwill.

Now, suppose I live in an area with a population of 150k people. How long will my stores last? 3 days? A week? And then what? Do I pass out my guns and ammo and join the mob looking to raid someone else's stored supplies?

And if we don't find any, do my wife and daughter get taken away by men who have my guns? Do we all just roam around looking for the next handout until the gov't gets back on its feet and helps us?

The sad part is, with all of the overabundance in this nation, we have forgotten how to prepare for the bad times. All grasshoppers and no ants mean starvation in short order.

I agree people should be prepared for a short period of strife and most suburban folks probably have sufficient food for a couple of weeks. After that they'll have no idea what to do.

Personally, I don't think anything will happen on a large scale. Even if the economy collapses the food is still growing, the farm animals still eating, the trucks still running....The point being there is no reason for further collapse. The farms, the transport companies....everyone involved in the production and distribution of food will have no choice but the continue whether or not they are paid. The government simply confiscates what it needs to keep order. If the farmer does not sell his goods to the distributors for whatever reason the government simply takes them and the same thing down the line until the food hits the grocery store. People will be working for food.

It's not the same as if there was a natural disaster. While there may be a shortage of money there will be no shortage of food.

Finally, the government either restores order quickly or a foreign power will invade. People will turn on their own government and welcome a ship load of food from foreign sources. Watching ones child die due to government incompetence while another child is saved by a foreign power supplying food and medicine is a powerful incentive to change allegiances.

WinterBorn
08-21-2011, 07:29 AM
When people are starving what's right and wrong makes little difference.

As for them knowing what you have once the store shelves become empty groups of people will band together to try and survive just like humans did thousands of years ago. In urban and suburban areas they will pool their resources. If someone does not answer their door they will try to break in thinking the house is empty and salvage what they can. If someone refuses to open their home or starts shooting that's just as good as saying, "Hey, I have lots of food in here." That's when the "games" begin.

One or two people will not hold off a crowd of 50 or 100 hungry folks especially if they have young children. People will try to get in 24 hours a day or set the house on fire. They have nothing to lose and there's no one more dangerous than a person who has nothing to lose.

It will only be possible to hold out for a short period, maybe a few weeks, at most.

Depending on the nature of the crisis, sharing my larder could mean starvation for my family. So I will be just as desperate but better equipped. A few weeks is an eternity if you have no food at all. By then the crowds will be too week to do much.

And yes, I do believe a small group can hold off 50 or 100 people. Yes they have superior numbers. But the doorways are small, so that numerical superiority is only good if we are in the open.

They will not stay long if their numbers are dropping from gunfire and they cannot fight back.

WinterBorn
08-21-2011, 07:30 AM
Emotional drivel or not the person with the starving child is not thinking about who is going to eat next week. It's all about today and to believe hungry mobs are just going to pass your house by is wishful thinking.

No, not wishful thinking. The logic of a parent who knows my child is doomed if anything happens to me.

apple0154
08-21-2011, 07:50 AM
Depending on the nature of the crisis, sharing my larder could mean starvation for my family. So I will be just as desperate but better equipped. A few weeks is an eternity if you have no food at all. By then the crowds will be too week to do much.

And yes, I do believe a small group can hold off 50 or 100 people. Yes they have superior numbers. But the doorways are small, so that numerical superiority is only good if we are in the open.

They will not stay long if their numbers are dropping from gunfire and they cannot fight back.

A couple of these http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRQPGNuJUyLn3D7KLaHazM17bjTIoiHc 8bcl0sRKIOo6i3Dms0khA

landing on a roof like this http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwe0Q6-aGu4s3u9kEDKJGvur4mzhPZRUfo-FQ0Y08vf_aRy6SHww

or a window like this http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/lisafx/lisafx0607/lisafx060700024/456416-a-home-with-plywood-covering-the-window-in-preparation-for-a-hurricane--the-storm-clouds-are-gatheri.jpg

and it will just be a matter of waiting.

WinterBorn
08-21-2011, 08:01 AM
One garden hose with a sprinkler on my roof will minimize the damages.

Hell, they could even be helping me out. If the fire damages are minimized by the water they will still look serious, and the house will look abandoned.

It will also depend on the arm strength of the thrower. I can shoot farther then he can throw. :)

apple0154
08-21-2011, 08:22 AM
One garden hose with a sprinkler on my roof will minimize the damages.

Hell, they could even be helping me out. If the fire damages are minimized by the water they will still look serious, and the house will look abandoned.

It will also depend on the arm strength of the thrower. I can shoot farther then he can throw. :)

"I can shoot farther then he can throw."

But are you as accurate? ;)

Guns Guns Guns
08-21-2011, 08:56 AM
Fear. Paranoia. Greed. Hostility. Self-justification.


Survivalists are just like the GOP, aren't they?

WinterBorn
08-21-2011, 08:56 AM
"I can shoot farther then he can throw."

But are you as accurate? ;)

Far MORE accurate. In fact, I'd be willing to bet my daughter could hit the flying bottle 8 or 9 times out of 10. I assure you I could score a torso hit much farther than a man can throw a flaming bottle.

WinterBorn
08-21-2011, 08:59 AM
Fear. Paranoia. Greed. Hostility. Self-justification.


Survivalists are just like the GOP, aren't they?

Hmmm, that is an interesting take on the conversation.

The bulk of the posts have been about whether we could defend ourselves against a mob trying to kill us and take our stores. But we are greedy? lmao So the definition of "greedy" is wanting to protect what you have and what will help your family survive?

I am not hostile at all. I am simply not willing to see my family starve because someone else didn't prepare. To do otherwise is called stupidity, not hostility.

Guns Guns Guns
08-21-2011, 09:03 AM
Murderous intent toward unarmed, hungry citizens.


Definitely like the GOP.

WinterBorn
08-21-2011, 09:12 AM
Murderous intent toward unarmed, hungry citizens.


Definitely like the GOP.

Oh, so I should hand out food and allow my own family to starve? Yeah, that is a typical response.


I worked hard to earn the money to buy what I have. I had the foresight to lay in stores against a possible crisis. But I should just hand them out to people who didn't plan ahead? lol

I have no murderous intent towards anyone who is not threatening the safety of my family. The fact that they are starving, while tragic, is not my concern. I do not have the resources to feed the entire county.



Let me ask you a question. (although I seriously doubt it will be answered) If you have had the good sense to store food, and some crisis does happen, what would you do? Bear in mind, if you give up your stores your family may well starve to death very soon.

What would you do?

Guns Guns Guns
08-21-2011, 09:24 AM
Have you stopped teaching your daughter to shoot unarmed people yet?

SmarterthanYou
08-21-2011, 09:25 AM
When people are starving what's right and wrong makes little difference.

As for them knowing what you have once the store shelves become empty groups of people will band together to try and survive just like humans did thousands of years ago. In urban and suburban areas they will pool their resources. If someone does not answer their door they will try to break in thinking the house is empty and salvage what they can. If someone refuses to open their home or starts shooting that's just as good as saying, "Hey, I have lots of food in here." That's when the "games" begin.

One or two people will not hold off a crowd of 50 or 100 hungry folks especially if they have young children. People will try to get in 24 hours a day or set the house on fire. They have nothing to lose and there's no one more dangerous than a person who has nothing to lose.

It will only be possible to hold out for a short period, maybe a few weeks, at most.

that is a two way street, you know that right? those of us defending our families from a mob of people have already assumed that mindset ahead of time. the only one more dangerous than someone with nothing left to lose, is someone with nothing left to lose who is armed.

Guns Guns Guns
08-21-2011, 09:30 AM
Awesome. A bunch of (purported) Christians gathered on the Sabbath, boasting about their plans to murder unarmed, hungry people.

WinterBorn
08-21-2011, 09:30 AM
Have you stopped teaching your daughter to shoot unarmed people yet?

As I predicted, no answer to the question. And yet, that very question is the premise for the conversation.

Yeah, I guess its easier to take potshots if you aren't actually part of the conversation.

WinterBorn
08-21-2011, 09:33 AM
Awesome. A bunch of (purported) Christians gathered on the Sabbath, boasting about their plans to murder unarmed, hungry people.

Double check when the Sabbath is before you start looking more ignorant.

While you are at it, you might also want to recheck the definition of "murder". No where in the civilized world is self-defense considered murder.



Still no answer to my question? Imagine that.

WinterBorn
08-21-2011, 09:33 AM
that is a two way street, you know that right? those of us defending our families from a mob of people have already assumed that mindset ahead of time. the only one more dangerous than someone with nothing left to lose, is someone with nothing left to lose who is armed.

A mother defending her child is a dangerous thing.

Guns Guns Guns
08-21-2011, 09:34 AM
Imagine your glee as you paint your target in the ruby glow of your Crimson Trace grips and squeeze the trigger.

WinterBorn
08-21-2011, 09:36 AM
Imagine your glee as you paint your target in the ruby glow of your Crimson Trace grips and squeeze the trigger.

More lies and potshots? Is this the best you have to offer?

SmarterthanYou
08-21-2011, 09:37 AM
A mother defending her child is a dangerous thing.

definitely, which is why my wife (who doesn't like guns) had me teach her how to use one for scenarios just like we're talking about.

oh, you might want to look in to the definition of defending. The last I read, trying to invade the home of someone who has something that you want is not defense, it's offense.

WinterBorn
08-21-2011, 09:39 AM
definitely, which is why my wife (who doesn't like guns) had me teach her how to use one for scenarios just like we're talking about.

oh, you might want to look in to the definition of defending. The last I read, trying to invade the home of someone who has something that you want is not defense, it's offense.

I meant my wife defending her child from that aforementioned mob.

Guns Guns Guns
08-21-2011, 09:40 AM
Do wives statistically use firearms to shoot their husbands more often than unknown intruders? Just asking.

WinterBorn
08-21-2011, 09:41 AM
Do wives statistically use firearms to shoot their husbands more often than unknown intruders? Just asking.

Irrelevant to the topic at hand. And its odd that you ask questions when you refuse to answer them.

SmarterthanYou
08-21-2011, 09:42 AM
I meant my wife defending her child from that aforementioned mob.

my bad, not paying attention had me thinking that was an apple response LOL

Guns Guns Guns
08-21-2011, 09:43 AM
Since Puritan times, most English-speaking Protestants equate "Lord's Day" (viz., Sunday) with "Sabbath", as do most Roman Catholic and some Eastern Orthodox faiths; kept in commemoration of the resurrection of Christ, it is often celebrated with the Eucharist.



For many it is the day of rest, and of communal worship in remembrance of Resurrection Day. It is considered both the first day and the "eighth day" of the seven-day week.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath

But murdereous rightwing survivalists consider some other day the Sabbath, apparently.

SmarterthanYou
08-21-2011, 09:43 AM
Irrelevant to the topic at hand. And its odd that you ask questions when you refuse to answer them.

Do liberals statistically avoid having to face the truth of their absurd notions after they've had the fabric of fantasy stripped from them? why yes, they do

WinterBorn
08-21-2011, 09:46 AM
Since Puritan times, most English-speaking Protestants equate "Lord's Day" (viz., Sunday) with "Sabbath", as do most Roman Catholic and some Eastern Orthodox faiths; kept in commemoration of the resurrection of Christ, it is often celebrated with the Eucharist.


For many it is the day of rest, and of communal worship in remembrance of Resurrection Day. It is considered both the first day and the "eighth day" of the seven-day week.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath

The Sabbath is saturday. What many people "consider" the sabbath is not really relevant. Nor is attending church services required in order to be a christian. I am spending time with family before leaving town for work. As much as I enjoy attending services, this is more important.

Guns Guns Guns
08-21-2011, 09:49 AM
Do liberals statistically avoid having to face the truth of their absurd notions after they've had the fabric of fantasy stripped from them? why yes, they do

I have no idea. I'll ask next time I see one.

Guns Guns Guns
08-21-2011, 09:51 AM
The Sabbath is saturday. What many people "consider" the sabbath is not really relevant. Nor is attending church services required in order to be a christian. I am spending time with family before leaving town for work. As much as I enjoy attending services, this is more important.

Who said attending church is required to be a Christian? You sure like to build strawmen.


Are your kids proud of their Christian daddy, who spends quality time on the internet bragging about how many hungry people he'll kill to keep their Vienna sausages safe?

WinterBorn
08-21-2011, 09:55 AM
Who said attending church is required to be a Christian? You sure like to build strawmen.


Are your kids proud of their Christian daddy, who spends quality time on the internet bragging about how many hungry people he'll kill to keep their Vienna sausages safe?

You are the one who mentioned christians online on the sabbath.

My kids are proud of me. As for the rest, do you enjoy making shit up and creating strawman arguments?

I see you still haven't answered my simple question. Funny how that works, isn't it? You attack people for their answers, but refuse to answer the same questions.

apple0154
08-21-2011, 10:03 AM
my bad, not paying attention had me thinking that was an apple response LOL

Always thinking the worse of me. :(

WinterBorn
08-21-2011, 10:03 AM
Are your kids proud of their Christian daddy, who spends quality time on the internet bragging about how many hungry people he'll kill to keep their Vienna sausages safe?

Someday, perhaps, you will have kids. Your first priority is to protect them.

I'm sure your kids will be proud when you tell them if a crisis comes you will give your food away and they will starve.

WinterBorn
08-21-2011, 10:04 AM
Always thinking the worse of me. :(

Ouch! So thinking my post was yours is an insult? You cut me to the quick!

apple0154
08-21-2011, 10:23 AM
Do liberals statistically avoid having to face the truth of their absurd notions after they've had the fabric of fantasy stripped from them? why yes, they do

There's no absurd notion. Regardless of a financial collapse there is food in the country. Harvest season is a few weeks away. A money shortage, possibly. A food shortage, no.

Also, houses do not vanish into thin air when there is a money shortage. Hydro damns do not dematerialize. Nuclear power plants do not evaporate.

This is a false dilemma perpetrated upon the people. Nothing has changed as far as supplies are concerned. As for the debt ceiling it's fine to cut back but not at the expense of people going hungry or homeless.

apple0154
08-21-2011, 10:27 AM
Ouch! So thinking my post was yours is an insult? You cut me to the quick!

Awww. Not you, WB. It was SmarterThanYou's interpretation that I commented on. :)

WinterBorn
08-21-2011, 10:37 AM
There's no absurd notion. Regardless of a financial collapse there is food in the country. Harvest season is a few weeks away. A money shortage, possibly. A food shortage, no.

Also, houses do not vanish into thin air when there is a money shortage. Hydro damns do not dematerialize. Nuclear power plants do not evaporate.

This is a false dilemma perpetrated upon the people. Nothing has changed as far as supplies are concerned. As for the debt ceiling it's fine to cut back but not at the expense of people going hungry or homeless.


No, the power plants do not vanish. But the lines that get them to your home are a mantenance intensive system. There may be major mega-watts being generated, but unless all the lines are up and intact, it does you no good at all.

Yes, there is food and yes harvest is just around the corner (if not already happening, I have some delicious tomatoes). But who gets the food to the hungry people? If the areas are overrun with hungry mobs, even the military will balk at going into urban areas. Also, if there is some system for getting the food to refuge camps, the mobs will leave us alone in favor of those compounds.

Guns Guns Guns
08-21-2011, 10:39 AM
"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets."

(Matthew 22.37-40 ESV)


Note: God grants an exemption to rightwing survivalists.

WinterBorn
08-21-2011, 10:45 AM
"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets."

(Matthew 22.37-40 ESV)


Note: God grants an exemption to rightwing survivalists.


I will ask forgiveness for my sins. But I will defend my home.


Tell us what you would do. You love to attack and ridicule. So tell us what the proper way to face a crisis like this?

Guns Guns Guns
08-21-2011, 10:54 AM
"He who withholds but a pennyworth of worldly goods from his neighbor, knowing him to be in need of it, is a robber in the sight of God.

Further, I declare, who spares a penny for himself to put it by against a rainy day, thinking, I may have need of that for tomorrow, is a murderer before God."

Meister Eckhart


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meister_Eckhart

WinterBorn
08-21-2011, 10:57 AM
Tell us what you would do. Tell us what the proper way to face a crisis like this?

.

Guns Guns Guns
08-21-2011, 10:58 AM
"Therefore do not be anxious, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble."

(Matthew 6.31-34 ESV)

apple0154
08-21-2011, 07:22 PM
No, the power plants do not vanish. But the lines that get them to your home are a mantenance intensive system. There may be major mega-watts being generated, but unless all the lines are up and intact, it does you no good at all.

Yes, there is food and yes harvest is just around the corner (if not already happening, I have some delicious tomatoes). But who gets the food to the hungry people? If the areas are overrun with hungry mobs, even the military will balk at going into urban areas. Also, if there is some system for getting the food to refuge camps, the mobs will leave us alone in favor of those compounds.

There's no reason for the areas to be overrun with hungry people because there's no reason for food delivery to stop in the first place.

WinterBorn
08-21-2011, 08:11 PM
There's no reason for the areas to be overrun with hungry people because there's no reason for food delivery to stop in the first place.

If fuel stopped being delivered tomorrow, how long before all transport of goods would fold up?

Jarlaxle
08-21-2011, 08:43 PM
Far MORE accurate. In fact, I'd be willing to bet my daughter could hit the flying bottle 8 or 9 times out of 10. I assure you I could score a torso hit much farther than a man can throw a flaming bottle.

I'd make it 10 times out of 10 with a good shotgun...and once the first one gets hit, the (spectacular) result would be quite a deterrant to others!

Guns Guns Guns
08-21-2011, 08:44 PM
If fuel stopped being delivered tomorrow, how long before all transport of goods would fold up?



Why are you so scared? If Michele Bachmann can deliver gas at $2 a gallon, she can do anything.

WinterBorn
08-21-2011, 08:57 PM
Why are you so scared? If Michele Bachmann can deliver gas at $2 a gallon, she can do anything.

I'm not scared at all.

Why are you scared to answer a simple question?

WinterBorn
08-21-2011, 08:58 PM
I'd make it 10 times out of 10 with a good shotgun...and once the first one gets hit, the (spectacular) result would be quite a deterrant to others!

I was thinking that same thing. Having a molotov cocktail explode overhead would be an excellent deterrent.

Good Luck
08-21-2011, 09:00 PM
I'd make it 10 times out of 10 with a good shotgun...and once the first one gets hit, the (spectacular) result would be quite a deterrant to others!
It would be tempting to yell out "PULL!" after the first one..... LOL

Good Luck
08-21-2011, 09:14 PM
There's no reason for the areas to be overrun with hungry people because there's no reason for food delivery to stop in the first place.
Riiiiigggghhhht. After all, a transport industry which is over 60% dependent on imports which are heavily influenced by unfriendly nations is SO stable we need never worry about it. Over 20,000 independent truck operators went out of business the last time diesel prices spiked near $5/gallon. Much of the recent increase in prices of everyday goods - including food - is due to rising transportation costs. A severe enough fuel crisis - something that is a very real threat in the current political and economic climate - could end up grounding half or more of our transportation industry.

The blindness of those like you who cannot see the potential for trouble that will lead to many of those out seeking food by any means because you just cannot admit to the potential for trouble. Instead of inquiring as to the motivations of those who make long-term preparations, you belittle them, searching out some of the worst examples to throw out there. Why is that? Is it because you are as blindly faithful to the omnipotence of your precious mommy government as the most devout religious fundamentalist? Or is the thought of long-term preparedness repugnant to you because it means self-responsibility? Or is it simply because the vast majority of survivalists are conservative, so you automatically oppose the very idea?

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 11:13 AM
http://www.apfn.org/thewinds/images/jesus_gun.jpg







Answer: Jesus would be on the inside, helping the rightwing Christian survivalists defend their hoard.









I mean, come on. Would the Son of God side with the weak and helpless folks who aren't squirreling shit away for an imaginary doomsday?

SmarterthanYou
08-22-2011, 11:23 AM
do you idiots realize the total hypocrisy of your position?

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 11:25 AM
That's my question.

WinterBorn
08-22-2011, 11:39 AM
http://www.apfn.org/thewinds/images/jesus_gun.jpg







Answer: Jesus would know you don't put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to fire the weapon.












I mean, come on. Would the Son of God not know the basic safety rules?

Fixed that for you.

WinterBorn
08-22-2011, 11:40 AM
That's my question.

I'm still waiting for you to ANSWER my questions.

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 11:49 AM
Fixed that for you.


Could be he's going for the head shot through the door. The Son of God would be able to detect the exact deflection for a clean kill.

WinterBorn
08-22-2011, 11:57 AM
Could be he's going for the head shot through the door. The Son of God would be able to detect the exact deflection for a clean kill.

Lets be real, the Son of God could just give you a stroke or an aneurism. Much neater.

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 12:09 PM
Lets be real, the Son of God could just give you a stroke or an aneurism. Much neater.



Apparently killing unarmed creatures with guns is fun, if some of the posts in this thread are any indication.


After all He's done for you, why deny Him the same pleasures you and your fellow paranoiacs enjoy?





http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/2009/06/custom_1244083609267_jesusGun_BottleCROPPED.jpg

SmarterthanYou
08-22-2011, 12:14 PM
how can it be paranoia if the mobs are trying to steal our food stores?

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 12:29 PM
how can it be paranoia if the mobs are trying to steal our food stores?

I don't see any news reports of food riots in suburban Dallas.


Maybe you should come out of your Moms cellar. I think the coast is clear.

WinterBorn
08-22-2011, 12:40 PM
:rofl: So the topic has been mostly talking about mobs of starving people attacking and stealing our stores or burning us out. But we are paranoid? lmao


The entire idea that we should hand out what we have put back is ridiculous too. Imagine a cruise ship sinking. Do you pull everyone into your lifeboat and swamp it?

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 12:44 PM
So the topic has been mostly talking about mobs of starving people attacking and stealing our stores or burning us out. But we are paranoid? lmao The entire idea that we should hand out what we have put back is ridiculous too. Imagine a cruise ship sinking. Do you pull everyone into your lifeboat and swamp it?


What would Jesus do?

WinterBorn
08-22-2011, 01:08 PM
What would Jesus do?

He would probably answer questions.

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 01:47 PM
He would probably answer questions.


He answered Harold Camping.




http://alisoelectricsolar.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/endisnearcliamte-change.jpg

WinterBorn
08-22-2011, 01:50 PM
He answered Harold Camping.




http://alisoelectricsolar.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/endisnearcliamte-change.jpg

I guess that puts Jesus a step ahead of you, huh?

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 02:10 PM
I guess that puts Jesus a step ahead of you, huh?

I asked Him. He said "no."

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 02:11 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nqcWV0Dv0iE/TWUIzq4I43I/AAAAAAAAD1c/3GsSJPGL5Es/s1600/2011-02-23-The%2BGun%2BNut.jpg

WinterBorn
08-22-2011, 02:14 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nqcWV0Dv0iE/TWUIzq4I43I/AAAAAAAAD1c/3GsSJPGL5Es/s1600/2011-02-23-The%2BGun%2BNut.jpg

Is that what this thread has been about? lol

Nice strawman and pitiful attempt to divert the topic.

WinterBorn
08-22-2011, 02:15 PM
I asked Him. He said "no."

But at least he answered a simple question, huh?

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 03:05 PM
But at least he answered a simple question, huh?



He said "yes".




http://www.slashgear.com/gallery/data_files/2/7/4/Jebusmagic8ball.jpg

apple0154
08-22-2011, 03:08 PM
If fuel stopped being delivered tomorrow, how long before all transport of goods would fold up?

Why would the fuel delivery stop? What would stop it?

SmarterthanYou
08-22-2011, 03:11 PM
Why would the fuel delivery stop? What would stop it?

your naive view of the world is sort of startling. how long do you think it would be before trucks (fuel, food, and water) started getting hijacked by groups banding together for survival?

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 03:13 PM
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/1106/anxious-much-paranoid-fear-anxious-demotivational-posters-1307994103.jpg

WinterBorn
08-22-2011, 03:14 PM
Why would the fuel delivery stop? What would stop it?

Conflict with oil producing nations would reduce fuel greatly. Natural disastors have interrupted flow and caused hording and price jumps that could cause slower or more limited deliveries.

A social or political collapse would ruin transport in the areas affected.

WinterBorn
08-22-2011, 03:15 PM
"I have nothing so I am trying to look clever"

You really enjoy calling people paranoid, but you have not made a case for anything except your own fondness for trolling.

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 03:19 PM
Conflict with oil producing nations would reduce fuel greatly. Natural disastors have interrupted flow and caused hording and price jumps that could cause slower or more limited deliveries. A social or political collapse would ruin transport in the areas affected.


Fear apparently fuels a collapse in spelling.




http://www.urbansamurai.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/fear1.jpg

WinterBorn
08-22-2011, 03:30 PM
Fear apparently fuels a collapse in spelling.




http://www.urbansamurai.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/fear1.jpg

Spelling? That is all you have? lol

No fear here. But I am, at least, able to carry on a discussion.

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 03:39 PM
Spelling? That is all you have? lol No fear here. But I am, at least, able to carry on a discussion.


Did I say it's "all" I have?


Do you stockpile food, water, supplies, guns and ammunition because you suffer constant fear of apocalyptic societal collapse and/or government confiscation of your precious manhood-symbols?


Do you prefer to call it being "prepared", "vigilant", or some other code word for paranoid panic?




http://weedoom.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/real-gangsta.jpg

WinterBorn
08-22-2011, 03:42 PM
Did I say it's "all" I have?


Do you stockpile food, water, supplies, guns and ammunition because you suffer constant fear of apocalyptic societal collapse and/or government confiscation of your precious manhood-symbols?


Do you prefer to call it being "prepared", "vigilant", or some other code word for paranoid panic?



Wow, look at that. Questions. Imagine being asked questions. Now what was it I am supposed to do when asked questions? Let me see........

No junior, no fear here.

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 03:52 PM
Wow, look at that. Questions. Imagine being asked questions. Now what was it I am supposed to do when asked questions? Let me see........No junior, no fear here.

LOL, you mad?

WinterBorn
08-22-2011, 03:59 PM
LOL, you mad?

Mad? lol I am amused. Thats about all.

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 04:03 PM
Mad? lol I am amused. Thats about all.

Good.

I wanted to give you a break from the constant fear.




Fear of the government.





Fear of hungry people wanting to share your hoarded food.





Fear of societal upheaval.





Fear that unarmed, you are not equal to others.

WinterBorn
08-22-2011, 04:10 PM
Good.

I wanted to give you a break from the constant fear.




Fear of the government.





Fear of hungry people wanting to share your hoarded food.





Fear of societal upheaval.





Fear that unarmed, you are not equal to others.


Oh? Well thank you very much. However, I really don't need a break from your imagination. I am not afraid of any of those things.

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 04:19 PM
Oh? Well thank you very much. However, I really don't need a break from your imagination. I am not afraid of any of those things.

That's good.


You haven't stocked up on food and water, or hoarded guns and ammunition in anticipation of a breakdown of civil authority.

SmarterthanYou
08-22-2011, 04:21 PM
what I find entertaining and amusing is that fools like legion troll are going to find themselves in refugee camps or government shelters begging for food and aid while their wives and daughters are being raped by criminal gangs and he's powerless to stop them.

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 04:33 PM
what I find entertaining and amusing is that fools like legion troll are going to find themselves in refugee camps or government shelters begging for food and aid while their wives and daughters are being raped by criminal gangs and he's powerless to stop them.

When is your imaginary boogeyman going to suffer these imaginary catastrophes?

WinterBorn
08-22-2011, 04:36 PM
That's good.


You haven't stocked up on food and water, or hoarded guns and ammunition in anticipation of a breakdown of civil authority.

So the only reason anyone would ever store extra food or have extra ammunition is fear?

SmarterthanYou
08-22-2011, 04:45 PM
When is your imaginary boogeyman going to suffer these imaginary catastrophes?

You're the poster child for 'those that refuse to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it'.

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 04:47 PM
So the only reason anyone would ever store extra food or have extra ammunition is fear?


If they made statements like these, yes.



Oh, so I should hand out food and allow my own family to starve? Yeah, that is a typical response. I worked hard to earn the money to buy what I have. I had the foresight to lay in stores against a possible crisis. But I should just hand them out to people who didn't plan ahead? lol I have no murderous intent towards anyone who is not threatening the safety of my family. The fact that they are starving, while tragic, is not my concern. I do not have the resources to feed the entire county. Let me ask you a question. (although I seriously doubt it will be answered) If you have had the good sense to store food, and some crisis does happen, what would you do? Bear in mind, if you give up your stores your family may well starve to death very soon. What would you do?


One garden hose with a sprinkler on my roof will minimize the damages. Hell, they could even be helping me out. If the fire damages are minimized by the water they will still look serious, and the house will look abandoned. It will also depend on the arm strength of the thrower. I can shoot farther then he can throw.


Depending on the nature of the crisis, sharing my larder could mean starvation for my family. So I will be just as desperate but better equipped. A few weeks is an eternity if you have no food at all. By then the crowds will be too week to do much. And yes, I do believe a small group can hold off 50 or 100 people. Yes they have superior numbers. But the doorways are small, so that numerical superiority is only good if we are in the open. They will not stay long if their numbers are dropping from gunfire and they cannot fight back.


Apple, suppose we who have prepared for a catastrophic event, do as you say or suggest? I have my stores, and the first group with children get food. Do they leave and go somewhere else? No, they stay where there is food and hope to survive on my goodwill. Now, suppose I live in an area with a population of 150k people. How long will my stores last? 3 days? A week? And then what? Do I pass out my guns and ammo and join the mob looking to raid someone else's stored supplies? And if we don't find any, do my wife and daughter get taken away by men who have my guns? Do we all just roam around looking for the next handout until the gov't gets back on its feet and helps us? The sad part is, with all of the overabundance in this nation, we have forgotten how to prepare for the bad times. All grasshoppers and no ants mean starvation in short order.


The biggest thing that the "people will take your supplies" advocates are forgetting is that we who prepared for this have done a fair amount of thinking about all the possibilities. We prepared for them. Suppose the world collapsed tomorrow. The grocery stores are empty in 2 days, and the food taken is gone by the end of the week. Except for those who have stored significant supplies, the suburbs and urban areas are out of food within 2 weeks. Now, without food howlong will the mob remain active and coherent? 3 weeks? A month? Suppose I hole up with my family for 6 weeks with no visible light and no activity? After that, we are still well fed and well rested. The mob is weak, disorganized and dying. Not a serious threat.


First of all, how would they know I had some? I hadn't planned on cooking in the front yard. My door is barred and I am prepared to defend my home. That you think that people who failed to plan ahead deserve an equal share of what I had the foresight to store speaks volumes. I spent money on canned foods to store. They spent money on something else. Bad choices on their part, I would say.


The situation would dictate whether I answer my door or not. If not, they would try to break in. I would prefer that everyone store away some food and necessities. Your remark accusing us of preferring to see children die rather than share is emotional drivel. If I share to save this child, the next day I have more families with children begging for food. And then more and more and more. Until I am out of food and my own children starve.


Its either attack and die for sure, or go somewhere else and search for less dangerous food.

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 04:48 PM
You're the poster child for 'those that refuse to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it'.

Fascinating. When did the "history" I need to learn from happen?

SmarterthanYou
08-22-2011, 04:49 PM
Fascinating. When did the "history" I need to learn from happen?

katrina aftermath

WinterBorn
08-22-2011, 04:50 PM
If they made statements like these, yes.

Oh, so a discussion of a hypothetical situation is fear?

Now you really are stretching.

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 05:12 PM
katrina aftermath


How so?

SmarterthanYou
08-22-2011, 05:14 PM
How so?

like i said. those who refuse. ^^^^^^^^

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 05:17 PM
Oh, so a discussion of a hypothetical situation is fear? Now you really are stretching.

Your definition of "discussion" seems to differ from mine.

"I can shoot farther then he can throw."

"They will not stay long if their numbers are dropping from gunfire and they cannot fight back."

"Suppose I hole up with my family for 6 weeks with no visible light and no activity? After that, we are still well fed and well rested. The mob is weak, disorganized and dying."

"My door is barred and I am prepared to defend my home."

"Its either attack and die for sure, or go somewhere else and search for less dangerous food."

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 05:19 PM
like i said. those who refuse. ^^^^^^^^

Having trouble articulating your example, or did you know it was irrelevant from the start?


Stick to threatening to shoot cops with your keyboard. You suck at debate.

Cancel 2018. 3
08-22-2011, 05:21 PM
legion couldn't survive getting stuck in a wet paper bag

SmarterthanYou
08-22-2011, 05:22 PM
Having trouble articulating your example, or did you know it was irrelevant from the start?


Stick to threatening to shoot cops with your keyboard. You suck at debate.

if your memory is that bad, there's no hope for you. after all, it was only 6 years ago. maybe you read about it in the papers?

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 05:32 PM
if your memory is that bad, there's no hope for you. after all, it was only 6 years ago. maybe you read about it in the papers?

You seem to overlook the fact that you failed to show how "katrina aftermath" validates your fears of an abdication of law and order by the authorities.


In fact, weren't you complaining that the police were overzealous?

SmarterthanYou
08-22-2011, 05:37 PM
You seem to overlook the fact that you failed to show how "katrina aftermath" validates your fears of an abdication of law and order by the authorities. the katrina aftermath was big news, you should have heard about it. My pointing anything out to you would be superfluous.



In fact, weren't you complaining that the police were overzealous?
yep, and it taught us threepers and oathkeepers a good lesson about the uselessness of government during national emergencies. and 'overzealous'? try lawless.

WinterBorn
08-22-2011, 05:42 PM
Your definition of "discussion" seems to differ from mine.

"I can shoot farther then he can throw."

"They will not stay long if their numbers are dropping from gunfire and they cannot fight back."

"Suppose I hole up with my family for 6 weeks with no visible light and no activity? After that, we are still well fed and well rested. The mob is weak, disorganized and dying."

"My door is barred and I am prepared to defend my home."

"Its either attack and die for sure, or go somewhere else and search for less dangerous food."

I have also had discussions of what to do in case of zombie attacks. I have talked about what historical figures I would most like to meet. I have even talked about what would happen if you answered questions. These are hypothetical situations.

Now lets see if we can clarify things for you. Yes, I have guns. It is a hobby enjoyed by my father and my grandfather. I hunt. I target shoot. I live way out in the boonies, so they are useful tools. Did I buy any firearms specifically for survivalistic reasons? No. Can I shoot farther than you can throw? Duh.

Do we have extra food. You betcha. Is that unusual?

apple0154
08-22-2011, 05:42 PM
Riiiiigggghhhht. After all, a transport industry which is over 60% dependent on imports which are heavily influenced by unfriendly nations is SO stable we need never worry about it. Over 20,000 independent truck operators went out of business the last time diesel prices spiked near $5/gallon. Much of the recent increase in prices of everyday goods - including food - is due to rising transportation costs. A severe enough fuel crisis - something that is a very real threat in the current political and economic climate - could end up grounding half or more of our transportation industry.

The current financial problems in the US has little to do with unfriendly nations supplying oil. If there was a crisis as far as acquiring oil the US would simply take the oil. If they can go into Afghanistan and Iraq and help in Syria an oil embargo against the US would be economic warfare and the US would simply take over whatever country they felt could supply the oil.


The blindness of those like you who cannot see the potential for trouble that will lead to many of those out seeking food by any means because you just cannot admit to the potential for trouble. Instead of inquiring as to the motivations of those who make long-term preparations, you belittle them, searching out some of the worst examples to throw out there. Why is that?

I'm not belittling them. I'm questioning the logic of it.


Is it because you are as blindly faithful to the omnipotence of your precious mommy government as the most devout religious fundamentalist? Or is the thought of long-term preparedness repugnant to you because it means self-responsibility? Or is it simply because the vast majority of survivalists are conservative, so you automatically oppose the very idea?

Long term preparedness is neither necessary nor feasible. First, there is no food shortage. The country is more than capable of producing sufficient food for the population. Second, if a food shortage was manufactured, for example if the farmers decided to sell their food to China for Chinese yuan instead of to their neighbor for US dollars the farmers would be quickly "confronted". If the latter occurred armed service personnel would quickly return home to support their families. I doubt anyone would stay in Iraq or Afghanistan to fight for their country when their wife/husband and children or elderly parents were starving here.

The point being if large sections of the population have to endure unnecessary hardship there would be civil war, the government would completely collapse and, depending on circumstances, foreign invaders would take advantage of the situation as who is going to fight for the country? A long term situation would result in the country never returning to it's original form so the question is, "Preparing to survive for what type of future?"

We may believe in the principal of not taking the wheat that belongs to the farmer but that wheat will be taken, one way or the other, by the hungry. Once that happens the country will never return to the principals of private property, capitalism, etc.

It's ironic, in a way. In order to preserve the country and current ideals we live by we may well have to temporarily live by the very ideals we deplore such as communal/sharing. Sort of puts the Conservative between a rock and a hard place.

apple0154
08-22-2011, 06:01 PM
your naive view of the world is sort of startling. how long do you think it would be before trucks (fuel, food, and water) started getting hijacked by groups banding together for survival?

I asked why the deliveries stop and you talk about trucks getting hijacked. Why are trucks getting hijacked? What starts all this?

apple0154
08-22-2011, 06:06 PM
Conflict with oil producing nations would reduce fuel greatly. Natural disastors have interrupted flow and caused hording and price jumps that could cause slower or more limited deliveries.

A social or political collapse would ruin transport in the areas affected.

The US can take over any oil producing country. Even in a time of shortage vital services can be maintained.

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 06:08 PM
the katrina aftermath was big news, you should have heard about it. My pointing anything out to you would be superfluous.

Give it a shot. If you can.


yep, and it taught us threepers and oathkeepers a good lesson about the uselessness of government during national emergencies. and 'overzealous'? try lawless.

So you admit that the authorities were on the scene. Are you claiming to be a member of Oathkeepers?

apple0154
08-22-2011, 06:10 PM
what I find entertaining and amusing is that fools like legion troll are going to find themselves in refugee camps or government shelters begging for food and aid while their wives and daughters are being raped by criminal gangs and he's powerless to stop them.

I strongly urge you to cancel your subscription to the Movie Channel.

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 06:12 PM
I have also had discussions of what to do in case of zombie attacks. I have talked about what historical figures I would most like to meet. I have even talked about what would happen if you answered questions. These are hypothetical situations. Now lets see if we can clarify things for you. Yes, I have guns. It is a hobby enjoyed by my father and my grandfather. I hunt. I target shoot. I live way out in the boonies, so they are useful tools. Did I buy any firearms specifically for survivalistic reasons? No. Can I shoot farther than you can throw? Duh. Do we have extra food. You betcha. Is that unusual?

If having extra food isn't usual, why make such a big deal about it, and make the kind of statements you have in this thread about starving mobs?


Why would they be starving if hoarding food is "usual"?


Do you have extra food because you fear a societal collapse/government takeover?


Have you boasted about shooting unarmed people who ask you for food?

SmarterthanYou
08-22-2011, 06:48 PM
I asked why the deliveries stop and you talk about trucks getting hijacked. Why are trucks getting hijacked? What starts all this?

the disconnect between reality and fantasy that you display is amazing. You talk about a mob of unprepared and desperate people using construction equipment and firebombs to raid, raze, or destroy the homes of people who did prepare but are unwilling to give you their hard earned stocks yet can't conceive of people doing the same thing against trucks of fuel, food, or water?

SmarterthanYou
08-22-2011, 06:50 PM
I strongly urge you to cancel your subscription to the Movie Channel.

again, those who refuse to learn.....^^^^^^^^^

SmarterthanYou
08-22-2011, 06:51 PM
Give it a shot. If you can.google it, if you can.


So you admit that the authorities were on the scene.
for whatever that was worth.


Are you claiming to be a member of Oathkeepers?
why is that relevant to this discussion?

apple0154
08-22-2011, 07:10 PM
the disconnect between reality and fantasy that you display is amazing. You talk about a mob of unprepared and desperate people using construction equipment and firebombs to raid, raze, or destroy the homes of people who did prepare but are unwilling to give you their hard earned stocks yet can't conceive of people doing the same thing against trucks of fuel, food, or water?

My point was there's no reason there has to be a shortage of food and water and people hoarding food and homes being firebombed, etc. If shortages occur it will be deliberately orchestrated and then total chaos will ensue.

apple0154
08-22-2011, 07:13 PM
again, those who refuse to learn.....^^^^^^^^^

If you're referring to Katrina how long did people go without food and water? I have said having supplies on hand for a short period of time is a good idea but long term planning will not work.

/MSG/
08-22-2011, 07:14 PM
There's no reason for the areas to be overrun with hungry people because there's no reason for food delivery to stop in the first place.
So your entire hypothetical was flawed from the beginning?

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 07:16 PM
again, those who refuse to learn.....^^^^^^^^^

Again, those who refuse to cite......^^^^^^^^^

Good Luck
08-22-2011, 08:54 PM
The current financial problems in the US has little to do with unfriendly nations supplying oil. If there was a crisis as far as acquiring oil the US would simply take the oil. If they can go into Afghanistan and Iraq and help in Syria an oil embargo against the US would be economic warfare and the US would simply take over whatever country they felt could supply the oil.
LOL Really? So why did we not do so during the oil embargoes of the 70s? Just how ignorant are you? (or are you simply desperate to defend a stupid position?)

What do you suppose Europe, Russia, China, and others would do if the U.S. were to actually invade and take over the oil fields of one or more ME countries for our own use? Can you say World War III, even nuclear response? We may have the military capability to take over any one or even two ME countries, but we do not have the capability to handle the reaction of those who also depend on ME oil exports. The very idea just shows how horrendously ignorant you can be.

But, hey, you see no reason to prepare for more than a few days inconvenience due to man-made or natural disaster caused crises, then do not do anything except your normal attitude of depending on your precious mommy government to come to your pathetic rescue. Sit all comfortable in your home, and should the worst happen, you and yours will be among those pathetic souls wandering around looking for food and drinkable water while starving to death; killing and/or being killed by opposing mobs wandering around for the same purpose of basal survival. Go ahead and burn out some of those who had the foresight to prepare, as that is, indeed, likely to occur, though not nearly to the degree you seem to proclaim. Do you really think the mobs will survive hitting prepared and armed people long enough to get all of them? If one in 10 urban survivalists outlast the wandering mobs, they will be the survivors because NONE of the wandering mobs will survive unless they can find a survivalist willing to take them - in return for labor. Doubtful, because, by your own words, you murdering mindless animalistic liberals who have no reason to prepare for long term economic collapse are untrustworthy. Who would let your type in, in the first place, when you are just as likely to try to cut our throats in the night as actually work for what others had the foresight to stock?

Those who DO prepare for more than waiting for mommy government to come to the rescue are about 90% more likely to survive a truly major, society-changing disaster. Some, even many urban survivalists - especially those stupid enough to let it be widely known they DO have stocks of food, water, etc - will not survive the wandering mobs. But, some, even many WILL survive the wandering mobs. Conversely NONE of the wandering mobs will survive beyond a few months at most, with the vast majority being killed by each other the first few weeks, and the rest eventually starving as their numbers constantly dwindle to the point they can no longer sustain an attack on a defended position.

I truly hope that the stores I have stocked will never be needed for anything other than a hedge against inflation. I buy everyday foods in canned or dried form so I can use them in every day use as well as use in event that resupply becomes difficult or impossible. I hope the ammunition I have stored and continue to purchase monthly will continue to be used for nothing more than target practice and hunting. I hope the generator I have will continue to be used for nothing more than the occasional blackouts that occur around here. I hope some of the other things I have accumulated, such as medical and first aid will also only see occasional use for minor incidents. AND I truly hope more people will do their own preparations, so fewer people end up in wandering, murderous mobs of mindless animals.

But I am much too aware of history, as well as current events, to simply assume the civilization we depend on for day-to-day living can even be described as stable, let alone eternal.

Damocles
08-22-2011, 09:43 PM
To be honest... I'd rather be mocked by an idiot than unprepared when the massive blizzard stops movement in my rural area. I prepare because it is smart and would in the city too, just differently.

Tell me I'm paranoid when my house is the only one in my area with electricity when the wires fall... I call it prepared. Tell me how "stupid" I am to store food, when the next door neighbors are hoping the melt comes soon because the milk went bad and all the meat went bad when the electricity went out...

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 10:58 PM
To be honest... I'd rather be mocked by an idiot than unprepared when the massive blizzard stops movement in my rural area. I prepare because it is smart and would in the city too, just differently. Tell me I'm paranoid when my house is the only one in my area with electricity when the wires fall... I call it prepared. Tell me how "stupid" I am to store food, when the next door neighbors are hoping the melt comes soon because the milk went bad and all the meat went bad when the electricity went out...



Do you plan to blast the snowflakes?


This isn't about prudently storing extra food for a storm.


It's about the paramilitary fantasy bunker mentality that comes from fear.


Pervasive fear.


Survivalists imagine all sorts of apocalyptic scenarios and feverishly imagine themselves heroically defending their suburban homes against hordes of ravenous refugees and/or "jackbooted government thugs".


It's hilarious.

WinterBorn
08-22-2011, 11:22 PM
If having extra food isn't usual, why make such a big deal about it, and make the kind of statements you have in this thread about starving mobs?


Why would they be starving if hoarding food is "usual"?


Do you have extra food because you fear a societal collapse/government takeover?


Have you boasted about shooting unarmed people who ask you for food?



Please point out where I have boasted about anything. I have discussed preparedness and a willingness to defend my home. Do you think there is anything wrong with that?

Guns Guns Guns
08-22-2011, 11:49 PM
Please point out where I have boasted about anything. I have discussed preparedness and a willingness to defend my home. Do you think there is anything wrong with that?

Boast 1


I am not afraid...


Boast 2


...No junior, no fear here.

Boast 3


My kids are proud of me...

Boast 4


...I had the foresight to lay in stores against a possible crisis...

Boasts 5 & 6


...my daughter could hit the flying bottle 8 or 9 times out of 10. I assure you I could score a torso hit much farther than a man can throw a flaming bottle.

Boast 7


I can shoot farther then he can throw. :)

Boasts 8 & 9


...I had the foresight to store ... I spent money on canned foods to store. They spent money on something else. Bad choices on their part, I would say.

Rambo's got nothing on you, does he?


According to you, you're smarter than the people you threaten to kill, you can shoot farther and more accurately than a man can throw a bottle, and your children are proud of you.


Boaster.


boast/bōst/

Verb: Talk with excessive pride and self-satisfaction about one's achievements, possessions, or abilities.

WinterBorn
08-23-2011, 12:28 AM
Boast 1


Not a boast. You have continually claimed gun owners are motivated by fear. I responded with a simple statement of fact on the topic.




Boast 2[/B]

See reply to "Boast 1".




Boast 3[/B]

Ok, you got me here. I boasted about my kids being proud of me. Not for the reasons you think, but proud nonetheless.



Boast 4[/B]

Not a boast. It was a statement in the context of the discussion.



Boasts 5 & 6[/B]

Ok, you got me again. I boasted about my daughter's abilities.


Boast 7[/B]

Not even close to a boast. If you knew anything about guns you would know this is fact and not boasting. Let me help you with your education.
In the hunting world, some calibers are excellent at longer ranges and some at shorter ranges. Many calibers have met with unenthusuastic responses from buyers because of their limited range. The 47-70Govt and the 30-30 are two prime examples. They have an arcing trajectory that shortens their range. They are considered limited by their effective (or accurate) range of around 100 yards. How many people do you know who can throw a bottle 100 yards?



Boasts 8 & 9[/B]

Not a boast at all. I see my purchases of extra goods as a safety measure, just like having a fire extinguisher, smoke detector, CO2 detector, and homeowners insurance. People without fire extinguishers or smoke detectors in their homes made bad choices.




Rambo's got nothing on you, does he?[/B]

Well, one of us is real and one is a fictional character, but whatever.


According to you, you're smarter than the people you threaten to kill, you can shoot farther and more accurately than a man can throw a bottle, and your children are proud of you. [/B]

You continue to talk about me threatening to kill people. YOu seem quite willing to ignore the fact that, in the context of the discussion, the ONLY people I have talked about killing were those raiding my home. I find that funny.

As I have said, pretty much anyone who shoots much or hunts at all can shoot farther and more accurately than a man can throw a bottle. Its not really much of a contest.

And yep, my kids are proud of me for a variety of reasons.




I guess I should have been more specific, since you have shown a propensity for ignoring context. You claim I boasted about shooting people who asked for food? Really? Even for you that is a sad attempt.

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 02:37 AM
Is it?

WinterBorn
08-23-2011, 02:42 AM
Is it?

Absolutely.

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 03:41 AM
Nutbag laugh riot:


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&complete=0&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=survivalist+blogs&btnG=Search

WinterBorn
08-23-2011, 03:50 AM
Nutbag laugh riot:


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&complete=0&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=survivalist+blogs&btnG=Search

And this is relevant to our discussion?

So tell us, what is your suggestion? Any actual ideas of your own? Anything beyond cut & paste of sarcastic humor and cheap shots at people who do post their own ideas?

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 04:40 AM
I love the tip about gathering acorns.

WinterBorn
08-23-2011, 05:16 AM
I love the tip about gathering acorns.

I didn't read it, but acorns have kept more than a few lost hikers alive.

apple0154
08-23-2011, 05:42 AM
So your entire hypothetical was flawed from the beginning?

No. My point is there would be no natural reason. When a natural disaster occurs help would certainly arrive within a week or two. During natural disasters most people combine resources as they are all in the same situation.

On the other hand if the cause of shortages was man made, people had supplies but refused to share, the dynamics are quite different.

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 05:42 AM
I didn't read it, but acorns have kept more than a few lost hikers alive.


Sounds squirrely to me.


Well, here you are:

http://suburbansurvivalist.wordpress.com/2011/07/10/acorns-as-survival-food/

Bon appétit.

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 05:49 AM
No. My point is there would be no natural reason. When a natural disaster occurs help would certainly arrive within a week or two. During natural disasters most people combine resources as they are all in the same situation. On the other hand if the cause of shortages was man made, people had supplies but refused to share, the dynamics are quite different.

Check this shit out. There are thousands of these websites, all about how to hoard stuff and kill people.


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&complete=0&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=survivalist+blogs&btnG=Search

WinterBorn
08-23-2011, 06:03 AM
Check this shit out. There are thousands of these websites, all about how to hoard stuff and kill people.


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&complete=0&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=survivalist+blogs&btnG=Search

I browsed thru a few sites. I must have missed the ones about just killing people. I saw some articles about defending your home ect ect.

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 06:10 AM
I browsed thru a few sites. I must have missed the ones about just killing people. I saw some articles about defending your home ect ect.

Yeah, you'll be "defending your home" with polite No Trespassing signs, won't you? All those links and articles about guns, ammo and accessories are just for decoration.

WinterBorn
08-23-2011, 06:13 AM
Yeah, you'll be "defending your home" with polite No Trespassing signs, won't you? All those links and articles about guns, ammo and accessories are just for decoration.

I do have "No Trespassing" signs up on my property. Can you go back and reread the part of this thread in which Apple posted that mobs of hungry people would take our food by force? Or is that perfectly acceptable to you?

SmarterthanYou
08-23-2011, 06:13 AM
Do you plan to blast the snowflakes?


This isn't about prudently storing extra food for a storm.


It's about the paramilitary fantasy bunker mentality that comes from fear.


Pervasive fear.


Survivalists imagine all sorts of apocalyptic scenarios and feverishly imagine themselves heroically defending their suburban homes against hordes of ravenous refugees and/or "jackbooted government thugs".


It's hilarious.

and yet we have people here claiming that they would do exactly what we said we'd have to defend against, so how is that 'fear'?

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 06:19 AM
and yet we have people here claiming that they would do exactly what we said we'd have to defend against, so how is that 'fear'?

What do you call it? "Vigilance"? Bullshit.

It's fear. You fear for your life. You fear for your property. You fear for your family.

You fear.

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 06:21 AM
I do have "No Trespassing" signs up on my property. Can you go back and reread the part of this thread in which Apple posted that mobs of hungry people would take our food by force? Or is that perfectly acceptable to you?

So will you shoot people, or not? Yes, or no?

SmarterthanYou
08-23-2011, 06:23 AM
What do you call it? "Vigilance"? Bullshit.

It's fear. You fear for your life. You fear for your property. You fear for your family.

You fear.
you are quite the moron. it can hardly be paranoid fear if people actually declare that they will do what we prepare to defend against.

apple0154
08-23-2011, 06:26 AM
LOL Really? So why did we not do so during the oil embargoes of the 70s? Just how ignorant are you? (or are you simply desperate to defend a stupid position?)

What do you suppose Europe, Russia, China, and others would do if the U.S. were to actually invade and take over the oil fields of one or more ME countries for our own use? Can you say World War III, even nuclear response? We may have the military capability to take over any one or even two ME countries, but we do not have the capability to handle the reaction of those who also depend on ME oil exports. The very idea just shows how horrendously ignorant you can be.

Unfortunately, it is you who’s dumber than a box of rocks. No one is suggesting taking over ALL the oil producing countries. As far as Europe, Russia and China are concerned nothing would change. The remaining countries could and would supply them.

If OPEC decided to completely cut off the US from oil what do you picture would happen? Do try to think this through a bit further.


But, hey, you see no reason to prepare for more than a few days inconvenience due to man-made or natural disaster caused crises, then do not do anything except your normal attitude of depending on your precious mommy government to come to your pathetic rescue. Sit all comfortable in your home, and should the worst happen, you and yours will be among those pathetic souls wandering around looking for food and drinkable water while starving to death; killing and/or being killed by opposing mobs wandering around for the same purpose of basal survival. Go ahead and burn out some of those who had the foresight to prepare, as that is, indeed, likely to occur, though not nearly to the degree you seem to proclaim. Do you really think the mobs will survive hitting prepared and armed people long enough to get all of them? If one in 10 urban survivalists outlast the wandering mobs, they will be the survivors because NONE of the wandering mobs will survive unless they can find a survivalist willing to take them - in return for labor. Doubtful, because, by your own words, you murdering mindless animalistic liberals who have no reason to prepare for long term economic collapse are untrustworthy. Who would let your type in, in the first place, when you are just as likely to try to cut our throats in the night as actually work for what others had the foresight to stock?

Those who DO prepare for more than waiting for mommy government to come to the rescue are about 90% more likely to survive a truly major, society-changing disaster. Some, even many urban survivalists - especially those stupid enough to let it be widely known they DO have stocks of food, water, etc - will not survive the wandering mobs. But, some, even many WILL survive the wandering mobs. Conversely NONE of the wandering mobs will survive beyond a few months at most, with the vast majority being killed by each other the first few weeks, and the rest eventually starving as their numbers constantly dwindle to the point they can no longer sustain an attack on a defended position.

I truly hope that the stores I have stocked will never be needed for anything other than a hedge against inflation. I buy everyday foods in canned or dried form so I can use them in every day use as well as use in event that resupply becomes difficult or impossible. I hope the ammunition I have stored and continue to purchase monthly will continue to be used for nothing more than target practice and hunting. I hope the generator I have will continue to be used for nothing more than the occasional blackouts that occur around here. I hope some of the other things I have accumulated, such as medical and first aid will also only see occasional use for minor incidents. AND I truly hope more people will do their own preparations, so fewer people end up in wandering, murderous mobs of mindless animals.

But I am much too aware of history, as well as current events, to simply assume the civilization we depend on for day-to-day living can even be described as stable, let alone eternal.

An economic collapse is not a food shortage. Try to differentiate between the two. The amount of money in the economy has nothing to do with the amount of grain in the silos. Whether or not someone has a job has nothing to do with the amount of livestock on the farms.

I know this is difficult for some Conservatives to grasp but money does not produce fruit and vegetables. If the food is there, and it is, there is no food shortage. Now, either the government can supply the needy with sufficient funds to buy the food or the government can confiscate the food for distribution or the government can sit back and watch a revolution occur.

People tend to compare today with the Great Depression but that is incorrect. First, there was crop failure and, second, limited ways to get produce to market and, third, no social programs. Today, people will not simply fold up and die knowing there is sufficient food stored somewhere, whether or not they have the money to buy it.

Society can be kept stable and the Conservative will share either by the government confiscating the food or sending money to those in need so they can purchase it.

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 06:28 AM
you are quite the moron. it can hardly be paranoid fear if people actually declare that they will do what we prepare to defend against.

Because you admit you're scared?

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 06:33 AM
Now, either the government can supply the needy with sufficient funds to buy the food or the government can confiscate the food for distribution or the government can sit back and watch a revolution occur. People tend to compare today with the Great Depression but that is incorrect. First, there was crop failure and, second, limited ways to get produce to market and, third, no social programs. Today, people will not simply fold up and die knowing there is sufficient food stored somewhere, whether or not they have the money to buy it. Society can be kept stable and the Conservative will share either by the government confiscating the food or sending money to those in need so they can purchase it.

The conservative is busy trying to remove governments ability to respond to emergencies, and will return America to the pre-Depression days of no social programs if they can.

SmarterthanYou
08-23-2011, 06:34 AM
Because you admit you're scared?

because you refuse to acknowledge we're right and you're wrong.

SmarterthanYou
08-23-2011, 06:36 AM
I know this is difficult for some Conservatives to grasp but money does not produce fruit and vegetables. If the food is there, and it is, there is no food shortage. Now, either the government can supply the needy with sufficient funds to buy the food or the government can confiscate the food for distribution or the government can sit back and watch a revolution occur.I know this is difficult for liberals to acknowledge, but the grain in the silos, vegetables in the gardens/fields, and the meat in the pastures does not belong to you or the government with the latter having the right to confiscate it. where did you get the moronic notion that you can do whatever you feel like in the interest of humanity?



Society can be kept stable and the Conservative will share either by the government confiscating the food or sending money to those in need so they can purchase it.
or we can just kill you all when you attempt to do so.

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 06:37 AM
because you refuse to acknowledge we're right and you're wrong.

Because you fail to convince me.

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 06:38 AM
or we can just kill you all when you attempt to do so.

The naked fear of the conservative is expressed in an idle threat.

SmarterthanYou
08-23-2011, 06:40 AM
Because you fail to convince me.

lead a liberal to knowledge, can't make him/her understand it.

SmarterthanYou
08-23-2011, 06:40 AM
The naked fear of the conservative is expressed in an idle threat.

try to take property not belonging to you, see how idle it becomes.

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 06:43 AM
lead a liberal to knowledge, can't make him/her understand it.

True.


They're almost as stubborn as you.

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 06:44 AM
try to take property not belonging to you, see how idle it becomes.



What's in your Moms basement that anyone would want?



http://www.myspaceantics.com/images/myspace-graphics/animations/jerk-off.gif

SmarterthanYou
08-23-2011, 06:51 AM
True.


They're almost as stubborn as you.
you afraid to accept your label as a liberal?

WinterBorn
08-23-2011, 07:17 AM
So will you shoot people, or not? Yes, or no?

Moronic question. Will I shoot people who are walking by? Will I shoot people who just happen to cross my path? Will I shoot people who look at me funny? Will I shoot people who ask for food? Will I shoot people who attack my home?


It is not a "Yes or No" answer.

apple0154
08-23-2011, 09:42 AM
I know this is difficult for liberals to acknowledge, but the grain in the silos, vegetables in the gardens/fields, and the meat in the pastures does not belong to you or the government with the latter having the right to confiscate it. where did you get the moronic notion that you can do whatever you feel like in the interest of humanity?

Right here. "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." Sound familiar?

The land, the grain, the vegetables, the cattle and your a$$ belongs to the government in time of emergency.

I don't know where you get your ideas from but you're in for a rude awakening, son.


or we can just kill you all when you attempt to do so.

A hundred starving people backing the government against one farmer. Another hundred people backing the government against one meat producer. You're making a mockery of your handle, "SmarterThanYou".

apple0154
08-23-2011, 09:46 AM
try to take property not belonging to you, see how idle it becomes.

You mean like Waco and Ruby Ridge?

SmarterthanYou
08-23-2011, 10:06 AM
Right here. "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." Sound familiar?

The land, the grain, the vegetables, the cattle and your a$$ belongs to the government in time of emergency.

I don't know where you get your ideas from but you're in for a rude awakening, son. I got my ideas from the founding fathers and the framers of the US Constitution. I can't find anywhere in those documents that declares my a$$ or my property belongs to the government in times of emergency. Your reading of the preamble is miles off the mark. That 'rude awakening', as you call it, will most certainly end up in catastrophe for me, you, and the government because it will mean the end of this nation.



A hundred starving people backing the government against one farmer. Another hundred people backing the government against one meat producer. You're making a mockery of your handle, "SmarterThanYou".yeah, the statists (that's you) will certainly get the first few farmers and ranchers, but word will spread. It won't always be a mob of JBTs raiding a single family. They will eventually be met with growing numbers of resistance, but you must also prepare yourself for the inevitable reprisals that you and yours will face.

SmarterthanYou
08-23-2011, 10:09 AM
You mean like Waco and Ruby Ridge?

there will be no more free wacos. Bill Clinton taught us a good lesson about changing the rules of engagement.

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 11:57 AM
Moronic question. Will I shoot people who are walking by? Will I shoot people who just happen to cross my path? Will I shoot people who look at me funny? Will I shoot people who ask for food? Will I shoot people who attack my home? It is not a "Yes or No" answer.

Isn't it?

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 11:59 AM
SmarterThanFews moment of glory:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm-HHsoqly0





Except nobody would scream "no".

WinterBorn
08-23-2011, 12:36 PM
Isn't it?

You think its all the same? If I just stick a gun out the window and start sniping people as they drive by or that I use a firearm to defend my home from marauders? One of those is murder and the other is self defense.

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 12:41 PM
You think its all the same? If I just stick a gun out the window and start sniping people as they drive by ...


You wouldn't be the first gunlover to snap, would you?


Do you think it's the strain of the incessant fear?

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 12:42 PM
there will be no more free wacos. Bill Clinton taught us a good lesson about changing the rules of engagement.

Let us know when Barack Obama can teach you the same lesson.

WinterBorn
08-23-2011, 12:42 PM
SmarterThanFews moment of glory:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm-HHsoqly0





Except nobody would scream "no".

If you think that is his moment of glory you are wrong. It would be the fact he cast you as the Drill Instructor. You know, the guy he shot just before this scene?

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 12:44 PM
If you think that is his moment of glory you are wrong. It would be the fact he cast you as the Drill Instructor. You know, the guy he shot just before this scene?

Moron Labe.

WinterBorn
08-23-2011, 12:45 PM
You wouldn't be the first gunlover to snap, would you?


Do you think it's the strain of the incessant fear?

Nice that you select just the part you want. Dishonest and amusing at the same time. I am not the one with the obsession about gun owners. I think you are far more likely to snap due to the strain of incessant fear. You live in fear of the gun owners. You are obsessed by the idea that there are millions of armed citizens. I have to smile thinking about how we must scare you so.

WinterBorn
08-23-2011, 12:45 PM
Moron Labe.

lol This is all you have?

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 12:47 PM
lol This is all you have?

Did I say it was?

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 12:51 PM
I am not the one with the obsession about gun owners. I think you are far more likely to snap due to the strain of incessant fear. You live in fear of the gun owners. You are obsessed by the idea that there are millions of armed citizens. I have to smile thinking about how we must scare you so.

Jumping to conclusions again, I see.


Am I cowering in a cellar somewhere, sweatily fingering a gun and straining my ears for the sound of a crazed mob or a squad of government agents?


I am amused that there are a few 'armed citizens' who live in perpetual terror of life itself, and call it "preparedness".


I have to smile thinking of your terror every time your doorbell rings.

WinterBorn
08-23-2011, 01:02 PM
Jumping to conclusions again, I see.


Am I cowering in a cellar somewhere, sweatily fingering a gun and straining my ears for the sound of a crazed mob or a squad of government agents?


I am amused that there are a few 'armed citizens' who live in perpetual terror of life itself, and call it "preparedness".


I have to smile thinking of your terror every time your doorbell rings.

Yes, I am sure you are "amused". You have started more threads about guns than those of us who like them. You have posted more snide remarks about "gunlovers" than you have about any other topic. But I am sure it is just because you are amused.

:good4u:


As for my terror, you are sadly mistaken. I have far less fear than most people. I'll answer my door any time day or night. I'll stop and help stranded motorists. I am happier than you will ever dream of being. But don't worry, we "gunlovers" usually don't notice those who are afraid of us.

apple0154
08-23-2011, 01:10 PM
I got my ideas from the founding fathers and the framers of the US Constitution. I can't find anywhere in those documents that declares my a$$ or my property belongs to the government in times of emergency. Your reading of the preamble is miles off the mark. That 'rude awakening', as you call it, will most certainly end up in catastrophe for me, you, and the government because it will mean the end of this nation.

Domestic tranquility. General welfare....one person will eat while 100 starve?

The only end will be the end of the 1, not the 100.


yeah, the statists (that's you) will certainly get the first few farmers and ranchers, but word will spread. It won't always be a mob of JBTs raiding a single family. They will eventually be met with growing numbers of resistance, but you must also prepare yourself for the inevitable reprisals that you and yours will face.

Numbers, SmarterThanYou. It's all about numbers. History is replete with examples of lopsided societies. The average wage being $50,000 and some folks are "earning" 10 times ($500,000) or 100 times ($5,000,000) or 200 times ($10,000,000) the average. Not many complain because they are still eating and have a home. Once that changes, if/when people stop having food, no one will be entitled to 100 or 200 rations.

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 01:13 PM
Yes, I am sure you are "amused".


You are correct. I like to give credit where it's due.


I am amused by your frantic antics.


If you didn't amuse me, I wouldn't bother mocking you.



You have started more threads about guns than those of us who like them.


Can you substantiate that claim?



You have posted more snide remarks about "gunlovers" than you have about any other topic. But I am sure it is just because you are amused.


Perhaps so. Again, your assessment of my motive is accurate, for once.


I'm proud of you.



As for my terror, you are sadly mistaken. I have far less fear than most people. I'll answer my door any time day or night. I'll stop and help stranded motorists. I am happier than you will ever dream of being. But don't worry, we "gunlovers" usually don't notice those who are afraid of us.


Naturally the sentiments and generalizations you have uttered cannot be substantiated in any way, can they?


Since you notice me, obviously you were lying when you claimed that I fear you.

WinterBorn
08-23-2011, 01:34 PM
You are correct. I like to give credit where it's due.


I am amused by your frantic antics.


If you didn't amuse me, I wouldn't bother mocking you.





Can you substantiate that claim?





Perhaps so. Again, your assessment of my motive is accurate, for once.


I'm proud of you.





Naturally the sentiments and generalizations you have uttered cannot be substantiated in any way, can they?


Since you notice me, obviously you were lying when you claimed that I fear you.

Your "America the Shootiful" thread alone is at 42 pages, the majority of which are yours. Time to face your obsession.

I notice you on a political debate forum. I doubt I would notice you in real life.



You are fun to play with until an interesting topic comes along. You do nothing but take pot-shots and cut & paste attempts at ridicule. If you ever actually debated someone, I am sure you would have your ass handed to you.

But you try and convince yourself that you are not scared. If you manage to convince yourself, that will make one of us who believes you.

SmarterthanYou
08-23-2011, 01:34 PM
Domestic tranquility. General welfare....one person will eat while 100 starve?

The only end will be the end of the 1, not the 100.

Numbers, SmarterThanYou. It's all about numbers. History is replete with examples of lopsided societies. The average wage being $50,000 and some folks are "earning" 10 times ($500,000) or 100 times ($5,000,000) or 200 times ($10,000,000) the average. Not many complain because they are still eating and have a home. Once that changes, if/when people stop having food, no one will be entitled to 100 or 200 rations.

how come numbers don't seem to come in to the equation when it's people vs the government, yet people vs people, it's all about numbers? it can't be both ways.

the bottom line is that the mob that attacks the one has to know that some of them are gonna die, but who dies? human nature dictates that most people are going to be about self preservation and not risk getting shot. it's like 10 people attacking someone with a revolver. The group knows he's only got 6 shots, so he can't get them all....but who takes the bullets?
the other thing I think you're purposefully ignoring is the retribution that you in the city, who didn't plan for this contingency, will experience. the people who you commission the government to confiscate their property for your own purposes will do one of two things. They will either seek to recoup their property back or they will kill those responsible. you can consider yourself and your family as those responsible.

and it's not a very progressive mindset, to me, that you can arbitrarily steal a families stockpile to split up simply because they had the presence of mind to stockpile while you and yours ridiculed him for it.

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 01:47 PM
Your "America the Shootiful" thread alone is at 42 pages, the majority of which are yours.


That's one thread, yet you claimed I've started more threads than others on the topic. You also inferred that I don't like guns. Interesting.



You have started more threads about guns than those of us who like them.


Can't back it up? Where have I said I don't like guns? Show me the quote.



I notice you on a political debate forum. I doubt I would notice you in real life.


How do you know? I could be one of your contractors. You could have noticed me today.



You are fun to play with until an interesting topic comes along. You do nothing but take pot-shots and cut & paste attempts at ridicule. If you ever actually debated someone, I am sure you would have your ass handed to you.

What do you consider an "interesting topic"?


I guess you'll never know how I fare in debates, will you? Hint: it takes two.


But you try and convince yourself that you are not scared. If you manage to convince yourself, that will make one of us who believes you.

Back at'cha.

WinterBorn
08-23-2011, 02:02 PM
Can't back it up? Where have I said I don't like guns? Show me the quote.

You have said virtually nothing about what you do or do not like. But the large number or demeaning posts about gun owners pretty much tells it all. DamnYankee has not said he hates gays. Webbway has not said he hates blacks. But it is quite obvious from their posts.


How do you know? I could be one of your contractors. You could have noticed me today.

You wouldn't last a day as one of my contractors.


I guess you'll never know how I fare in debates, will you? Hint: it takes two.

Indeed it does take two. It takes two people expressing their opinions, beliefs, and discussing a topic. You have not done that here. But there is always hope.

Good Luck
08-23-2011, 02:08 PM
Right here. "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." Sound familiar?

The land, the grain, the vegetables, the cattle and your a$$ belongs to the government in time of emergency.
Yours is, without a doubt, the most dangerous, anti-freedom, pro mommy government, totalitarian bullshit this side of eternity. My ASS belongs to ME, as do any and all products of my lands. And the products of my neighbors lands belong to my neighbor. If our government ever starts to act as you describe, emergency or no, there WILL be civil war, with even the vast majority of liberal democrats fighting against the totalitarianism you so love.

You quote the Constitution without a foggy fucking clue what it means or why it was written. You are like a 4-year-old trying to apply the general theory of relativity. The entire concept of freedom is obviously way outside your ability to comprehend. You truly are without ANYTHING resembling a real, self-aware brain. You are pitiful in the way you look to government for all your answers. My youngest granddaughter shows more cognizance of personal responsibility than you do.

And, yes, if the worst happens, you WILL be among the first to die, because you haven't the cognitive ability to recognize that no one owes you help just because you exist. And it probably won't even be a survivalist who kills your sorry useless ass, but rather someone - or several someones - who are part of the roving mobs preying on the weak.

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 02:16 PM
You have said virtually nothing about what you do or do not like. But the large number or demeaning posts about gun owners pretty much tells it all.


In the absence of any evidence you feel justified in drawing a conclusion? Interesting.


If you feel 'demeaned' by an accurate assessment of your behavior but don't change it, what does that say about you?



DamnYankee has not said he hates gays. Webbway has not said he hates blacks. But it is quite obvious from their posts.



Have you been able to prove that? Seems to me Dumb Yankee has kicked your ass a few times for making claims you can't back up, and for lying. Am I wrong?



You wouldn't last a day as one of my contractors.


Why, because you hold them to a different standard than you apply to yourself? For example, posting on JPP while being paid to work?


Indeed it does take two. It takes two people expressing their opinions, beliefs, and discussing a topic. You have not done that here. But there is always hope.


You seem incapable of defining 'debate'. In the context of this forum I believe it has nothing to do with opinions or beliefs.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate

SmarterthanYou
08-23-2011, 02:16 PM
And, yes, if the worst happens, you WILL be among the first to die, because you haven't the cognitive ability to recognize that no one owes you help just because you exist. And it probably won't even be a survivalist who kills your sorry useless ass, but rather someone - or several someones - who are part of the roving mobs preying on the weak.

the ridiculous part of all of apples claims is that she doesn't even realize she is going to be one of the first ones victimized by the looters and killers who care nothing about her.

SmarterthanYou
08-23-2011, 02:19 PM
In the absence of any evidence you feel justified in drawing a conclusion? Interesting.

WTF do you think you've been doing all this time? drawing a conclusion based on your idiotology and that's it.

WinterBorn
08-23-2011, 02:33 PM
In the absence of any evidence you feel justified in drawing a conclusion? Interesting.

There is plenty of evidence. You have posted a large number of posts attempting to ridicule gun owners.


If you feel 'demeaned' by an accurate assessment of your behavior but don't change it, what does that say about you?

I didn't say I felt demeaned. As an example, your constant reference to fear as the motivation for gun owners being armed. Would you consider that complimentary?




Have you been able to prove that? Seems to me Dumb Yankee has kicked your ass a few times for making claims you can't back up, and for lying. Am I wrong?

lol Yes, you are wrong.




Why, because you hold them to a different standard than you apply to yourself? For example, posting on JPP while being paid to work?


If you had my job you would have a laptop on the job site. But my contractors are utility construction workers. Give it a try sometime.



You seem incapable of defining 'debate'. In the context of this forum I believe it has nothing to do with opinions or beliefs.

Apparently you also think it involves only attempts at ridicule and asking questions while never answering any questions. What you do here is certainly not debate. BTW, if you are going to post a definition of "debate", you might want to actually read it before you state your beliefs. :)

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 03:10 PM
There is plenty of evidence. You have posted a large number of posts attempting to ridicule gun owners.

Did I say that was my intent? Perhaps your personal insecurities are causing you to distort reality.

Could it be the pressure of worrying about 'mobs', 'government thugs', etc.? You could try anti-anxiety treatment.


I didn't say I felt demeaned. As an example, your constant reference to fear as the motivation for gun owners being armed. Would you consider that complimentary?.

You said my intent was to demean gun owners. I didn't.

Are you a gun owner?

If so, then did you feel demeaned?

If not, what's your beef?

Why does the honest and open disclosure of a major motivation for owning firearms frighten you?

I am neither "complimented" nor offended by facts. Are you?


lol Yes, you are wrong.

Does anyone else share your conclusion? Ask Webby or Dumb Yankee and get back to me.


If you had my job you would have a laptop on the job site. But my contractors are utility construction workers. Give it a try sometime.

How do you know I don't?


Apparently you also think it involves only attempts at ridicule and asking questions while never answering any questions. What you do here is certainly not debate. BTW, if you are going to post a definition of "debate", you might want to actually read it before you state your beliefs. :)

Which part of the definition are you taking issue with?

If you feel "ridiculed", does that speak to self-esteeem issues?

WinterBorn
08-23-2011, 03:30 PM
If not, what's your beef?

I don't have a beef with you. I simply stated that you obviously dislike guns and gun owners.



Does anyone else share your conclusion? Ask Webby or Dumb Yankee and get back to me.


Ask Webbway or SM? :rofl: SM claims a win if someone ignores him. SM claims a win if you cannot disprove his claim, because the person questioning his claims has the responsibility to prove their point. And then later will claim a win if someone can't prove their claim, because it is the person making the claim's responsibility for proving it true.

And webbway? Webbway? Are you honestly wanting to quote him as an authority on who has won debates or lied? :palm:



How do you know I don't?


I know you don't work as one of my contractors.

Guns Guns Guns
08-23-2011, 04:10 PM
I noticed you only responded to a few of my points. Does that mean you concede the others?


I don't have a beef with you. I simply stated that you obviously dislike guns and gun owners.

You said my posts were "demeaning" to gun owners. Walk back much?




http://images.coolchaser.com/themes/t/747322-i221.photobucket.com-albums-dd3-theoldradio-Moonwalk.gif





Still waiting for you to cite any post of mine that says I "dislike guns and gun owners", BTW.







Ask Webbway or SM? :rofl: SM claims a win if someone ignores him. SM claims a win if you cannot disprove his claim, because the person questioning his claims has the responsibility to prove their point. And then later will claim a win if someone can't prove their claim, because it is the person making the claim's responsibility for proving it true. And webbway? Webbway? Are you honestly wanting to quote him as an authority on who has won debates or lied? :palm:

Did I say you should ask them if you "won", or did I ask if they share your conclusions regarding your statements about them. You said Webby is a racist and Dumb Yankee hates gays. Where's your evidence? Same place as your proof that I "dislike guns and gun owners"?


And do I need to find the thread in which you admit that you lied for years about being Solitary?


I know you don't work as one of my contractors.

Do you?