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wolfspinne
04-29-2011, 03:12 PM
Auschwitz
So just what constitutes "Holocaust denial"? Surely a claim that most Auschwitz inmates died from disease and not systematic extermination in gas chambers would be "denial." But perhaps not. Jewish historian Arno J. Mayer, a Princeton University professor, wrote in his 1988 study Why Did the Heavens Not Darken?: The 'Final Solution' in History: “…From 1942 to 1945, certainly at Auschwitz , but probably overall, more Jews were killed by so-called 'natural' causes than by 'unnatural' ones." [9]

Even estimates of the number of people who died at Auschwitz – allegedly the main extermination center – are no longer clear cut. At the postwar Nuremberg Tribunal, the Allies charged that the Germans exterminated four million people at Auschwitz. [10] Until 1990, a memorial plaque at Auschwitz read: "Four Million People Suffered and Died Here at the Hands of the Nazi Murderers Between the Years 1940 and 1945." [11]

Is it "Holocaust denial" to dispute these four million deaths? Not today. In July 1990, the Polish government's Auschwitz State Museum, along with Israel's Yad Vashem Holocaust center, conceded that the four million figure was a gross exaggeration, and references to it were accordingly removed from the Auschwitz monument. Israeli and Polish officials announced a tentative revised toll of 1.1 million Auschwitz dead. [12] In 1993, French Holocaust researcher Jean-Claude Pressac, in a much-discussed book about Auschwitz, estimated that altogether about 775,000 died there during the war years. [13]

Professor Mayer acknowledges that the question of how many really died in Auschwitz remains open. In Why Did the Heavens Not Darken? he wrote: [14}

“… Many questions remain open ... All in all, how many bodies were cremated in Auschwitz? How many died there all told? What was the national, religious, and ethnic breakdown in this commonwealth of victims? How many of them were condemned to die a 'natural' death and how many were deliberately slaughtered? And what was the proportion of Jews among those murdered in cold blood among these gassed? We have simply no answers to these questions at this time.”

Gas Chambers

What about denying the existence of extermination "gas chambers"? Here too, Mayer makes a startling statement: “Sources for the study of the gas chambers are at once rare and unreliable." While Mayer believes that such chambers did exist at Auschwitz, he points out that “most of what is known is based on the depositions of Nazi officials and executioners at postwar trials and on the memory of survivors and bystanders. This testimony must be screened carefully, since it can be influenced by subjective factors of great complexity.” [15}

Höss Testimony
One example of this might be the testimony of Rudolf Höss, an SS officer who served as commandant of Auschwitz. In its Judgment, the Nuremberg International Military Tribunal quoted at length from his testimony to support its findings of extermination. [16]

It is now well established that Höss’ crucial testimony, as well as his so-called "confession" – which was also cited by the Nuremberg Tribunal – are not only false, but were obtained by beating the former commandant nearly to death. [17] Höss' wife and children were also threatened with death and deportation to Siberia. In his statement – which would not be admissible today in any United States court of law – Höss claimed the existence of an extermination camp called "Wolzek." In fact, no such camp ever existed. He further claimed that during the time that he was commandant of Auschwitz, two and a half million people were exterminated there, and that a further half million died of disease. [18] Today no reputable historian upholds these figures. Höss was obviously willing to say anything, sign anything and do anything to stop the torture, and to try to save himself and his family.

Minister of Truth
04-29-2011, 03:31 PM
Since we're on the proof and denial train here, what evidence suggests that SS officers lied to the Court about their activities. The whole point of playing the "I followed orders" defense is to excuse oneself from prosecution, without admitting enough culpability that one loses sympathy from the Court.

Also, why does it matter that the Nazis were too incompetent to provide sanitary facilities to its prisoners? Is the US government any less culpable in the deaths of Japanese-Americans who died from disease and improper medical care while in concentration camps over here?

wolfspinne
04-29-2011, 03:57 PM
Why would you think. Is it that hard to put 2&2 together?

Minister of Truth
04-29-2011, 03:59 PM
I'm just going to hazard a guess that 2+2 doesn't equal 4/the Nazis murdered 6 million Jews in your textbook...

Minister of Truth
04-29-2011, 04:00 PM
Also, I didn't preface any of my statements or questions with "I think" Try again...

wolfspinne
04-29-2011, 04:02 PM
you sound like a fool. How do you know what happened in the camps and at Auschwitz? .. Do you know anyone who was there? All you have is popular mythology about it. so what do you really know; ...NOTHING!

Minister of Truth
04-29-2011, 04:06 PM
Hmm... good point. I have a bunch of corpses from both the American and German concentration camps. Nothing to see here, people.

wolfspinne
04-29-2011, 04:08 PM
Casualties or should i say collateral damage. WAR IS HELL!

Minister of Truth
04-29-2011, 04:14 PM
Okay, right, because enemy aircraft penetrated the West Coast, and bombed the shit out of the inland desert lands where the American concentration camps were located. We all missed that one while studying the Pacific Theatre of WWII. Similarly, the Allies didn't bomb Dachau, Auschwitz, etc., so I'm failing to see how Jews were victims of collateral damage over in the European Threatre. Meanwhile, I am going to assume that you mean a different war, from WWII - man's perennial war to free itself from Jewish capitalist control, or something?

wolfspinne
04-29-2011, 04:27 PM
The wjc [world jewish congress ]declared war on germany on jan 30 1933.

jewish partisans attacked wehrmacht .caused big casualties. Moving jewish partisans and those in the population that supported them was a military necessity. In fact the us cavalry applied the same strategy in dealing with the comanche and navaho.

Minister of Truth
04-29-2011, 04:30 PM
You retard, the WJC wasn't even founded until 1936.

wolfspinne
04-29-2011, 04:37 PM
Judea Declares War on Germany
There are many who believe that WWII began on September 1,1939, the day hostilities broke out between Germany and Poland, or that it began on September 3, 1939, the day Britain and France declared war on Germany. However, the real date for its beginning was March 24, 1933. It is true that no shots were fired that day and no bombs were dropped. However, World Jewry declared war on Germany on that day and from that moment onward worked tirelessly to bring about the death and mayhem that we now know as World War II. Why did World Jewry declare war on Germany? The simple and also truthful answer is because Adolf Hitler was taking a stand against the evil twins of World Jewry: despotic capitalism and International Communism.

The Jews declared war on Germany on March 24, 1933. The National Socialist government in Germany was not even two months old but Hitler was daring to take a stand against The Jew.