How far will your anger drive you?

[klaatu]

To the point where you will belive anything negative about Bush? If it makes him look bad, you will accept it as truth, no matter how outragous the story is?
One of the hot topics over this past week was the recent polls suugesting that 1/3 of Americans believe that 9/11 was an inside job, pulled off by..Bush and Company! Since one third of Americans Identify themselves as liberal.. I believe we know where the majority of people who believe this to be true ..reside politically.

I wonder how many people who visit this forum and FP.com believe this to be true.. and why ....

Lets look at the logic .... Why would Bush want to blow up the Trade Center? To use it as an excuse to start a War in the Middle East. Why would he want to do that? To gain control over the middle east, thus it would give him control over the regions "OIL".
To pull this off ... he would have had to pull off one of ...if not Histories biggest cover up .... unless of course you are anyoldiron .. then that cover up would be the true nature of Jesus Christ.
Seriously, a cover up such as this would have to include participants willing to fly airplanes into buildings, unless of course the Planes were mysteriously taken over by ground control, "via" radio controll.. forced to take the path they took. Unlikely.
And of course .. you would have to include hundreds of willing participants in such a cover up. Conspiracy such as this gets more outragous as you begin to rip it apart step by step ....

But yet 1/3 of Americans believe ths to be the case .....


Thursday, August 3, 2006

Was 9/11 an 'inside job'?

By THOMAS HARGROVE AND GUIDO H. STEMPEL III
SCRIPPS HOWARD NEWS SERVICE

More than a third of the American public suspects that federal officials assisted in the 9/11 terrorist attacks or took no action to stop them so the United States could go to war in the Middle East, according to a new Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll.

The national survey of 1,010 adults also found that anger against the federal government is at record levels, with 54 percent saying they "personally are more angry" at the government than they used to be.

Widespread resentment and alienation toward the national government appear to be fueling a growing acceptance of conspiracy theories about the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

Suspicions that the 9/11 attacks were "an inside job" -- the common phrase used by conspiracy theorists on the Internet -- quickly have become nearly as popular as decades-old conspiracy theories that the federal government was responsible for President John F. Kennedy's assassination and that it has covered up proof of space aliens.

Seventy percent of people who give credence to these theories also say they've become angrier with the federal government than they used to be.

Thirty-six percent of respondents overall said it is "very likely" or "somewhat likely" that federal officials either participated in the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon or took no action to stop them "because they wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East."

"One out of three sounds high, but that may very well be right," said Lee Hamilton, former vice chairman of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (also called the 9/11 Commission). His congressionally appointed investigation concluded that federal officials bungled their attempts to prevent, but did not participate in, the attacks by al-Qaida five years ago.

"A lot of people I've encountered believe the U.S. government was involved," Hamilton said.

"Many say the government planned the whole thing," he said. "Of course, we don't think the evidence leads that way at all."



The poll also found that 16 percent of Americans speculate that secretly planted explosives, not burning passenger jets, were the real reason the massive twin towers of the World Trade Center collapsed.

Conspiracy groups for at least two years have also questioned why the World Trade Center collapsed when fires that heavily damaged similar skyscrapers around the world did not cause such destruction. Sixteen percent said it's "very likely" or "somewhat likely" that "the collapse of the twin towers in New York was aided by explosives secretly planted in the two buildings."

Twelve percent suspect the Pentagon was struck by a military cruise missile in 2001 rather than by an airliner captured by terrorists.

University of Florida law professor Mark Fenster, author of the book "Conspiracy Theories: Secrecy and Power in American Culture," said the poll's findings reflect public anger at the unpopular Iraq war, realization that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction and growing doubts of the veracity of the Bush administration.

"What has amazed me is not that there are conspiracy theories, but that they didn't seem to be getting any purchase among the American public until the last year or so," Fenster said. "Although the Iraq war was not directly related to the 9/11 attacks, people are now looking back at 9/11 with much more skepticism than they used to."

The Scripps Survey Research Center at Ohio University has tracked the level of resentment people feel toward the federal government since 1995, starting shortly after Timothy McVeigh bombed the federal building in Oklahoma City. Forty-seven percent then said they, personally, feel "more angry at the federal government" than they used to. That percentage dropped to 42 percent in 1997, 34 percent in 1998 and only 12 percent shortly after 9/11 during the groundswell of patriotism and support for the government after the attacks.

But the new survey found that 77 percent say their friends and acquaintances have become angrier with the government recently and 54 percent say they, themselves, have become angrier -- both record levels.

The survey also found that people who regularly use the Internet but who do not regularly use so-called "mainstream" media are significantly more likely to believe in 9/11 conspiracies. People who regularly read daily newspapers or listen to radio newscasts were especially unlikely to believe in the conspiracies.

"We know that there are a lot of people now asking questions," said Janice Matthews, executive director of 911Truth.org, one of the most sophisticated Internet sites raising doubts about official explanations of the attacks. "We didn't have the Internet after Pearl Harbor, the Gulf of Tonkin or the Kennedy assassination. But we live in different times now."

The survey was conducted by telephone from July 6-24 at the Scripps Survey Research Center at the University of Ohio under a grant from the Scripps Howard Foundation. The poll has a margin of error of 4 percentage points.

Thomas Hargrove is a reporter for Scripps Howard News Service. Guido H. Stempel III is director of the Scripps Survey Research Center at Ohio University.


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/279827_conspiracy02ww.html

[toby]

I wouldn't put much stock in a silly poll without knowing a bit more information on the questions, how they were asked, who asked them and who they asked.

[maineman]

I do not think that Bush planned and executed 9/11.

I DO, however, think that his neglectful inattention to the issue of wahabbist terrorism and its growing threat to America helped AQ to succeed in pulling 9/11 off.

He was pretty focused on star wars.... his own attorney general did, in fact, cut millions of dollars from the anti-terrorism task force the very day before 9/11.

[klaatu]

I do not think that Bush planned and executed 9/11.

I DO, however, think that his neglectful inattention to the issue of wahabbist terrorism and its growing threat to America helped AQ to succeed in pulling 9/11 off.

He was pretty focused on star wars.... his own attorney general did, in fact, cut millions of dollars from the anti-terrorism task force the very day before 9/11.


Hey... I'll respect your opinion on this.

9/11 is not the fault of any one particular individual ... it was first and foremost the fault of the perpetrators ..., secondly.. the combined errors of Intellegence of both administrations.

And as Ive said many times .... I do not approve of the direction of this Administration ... my thing is not to stick up for them ... I just shake my head at the crazyness of such wide spread thinking.

[zoombwaz]

To the point where you will belive anything negative about Bush? If it makes him look bad, you will accept it as truth, no matter how outragous the story is?
One of the hot topics over this past week was the recent polls suugesting that 1/3 of Americans believe that 9/11 was an inside job, pulled off by..Bush and Company! Since one third of Americans Identify themselves as liberal.. I believe we know where the majority of people who believe this to be true ..reside politically.

I wonder how many people who visit this forum and FP.com believe this to be true.. and why ....

Lets look at the logic .... Why would Bush want to blow up the Trade Center? To use it as an excuse to start a War in the Middle East. Why would he want to do that? To gain control over the middle east, thus it would give him control over the regions "OIL".
To pull this off ... he would have had to pull off one of ...if not Histories biggest cover up .... unless of course you are anyoldiron .. then that cover up would be the true nature of Jesus Christ.
Seriously, a cover up such as this would have to include participants willing to fly airplanes into buildings, unless of course the Planes were mysteriously taken over by ground control, "via" radio controll.. forced to take the path they took. Unlikely.
And of course .. you would have to include hundreds of willing participants in such a cover up. Conspiracy such as this gets more outragous as you begin to rip it apart step by step ....

But yet 1/3 of Americans believe ths to be the case .....


Thursday, August 3, 2006

Was 9/11 an 'inside job'?

By THOMAS HARGROVE AND GUIDO H. STEMPEL III
SCRIPPS HOWARD NEWS SERVICE

More than a third of the American public suspects that federal officials assisted in the 9/11 terrorist attacks or took no action to stop them so the United States could go to war in the Middle East, according to a new Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll.

The national survey of 1,010 adults also found that anger against the federal government is at record levels, with 54 percent saying they "personally are more angry" at the government than they used to be.

Widespread resentment and alienation toward the national government appear to be fueling a growing acceptance of conspiracy theories about the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

Suspicions that the 9/11 attacks were "an inside job" -- the common phrase used by conspiracy theorists on the Internet -- quickly have become nearly as popular as decades-old conspiracy theories that the federal government was responsible for President John F. Kennedy's assassination and that it has covered up proof of space aliens.

Seventy percent of people who give credence to these theories also say they've become angrier with the federal government than they used to be.

Thirty-six percent of respondents overall said it is "very likely" or "somewhat likely" that federal officials either participated in the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon or took no action to stop them "because they wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East."

"One out of three sounds high, but that may very well be right," said Lee Hamilton, former vice chairman of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (also called the 9/11 Commission). His congressionally appointed investigation concluded that federal officials bungled their attempts to prevent, but did not participate in, the attacks by al-Qaida five years ago.

"A lot of people I've encountered believe the U.S. government was involved," Hamilton said.

"Many say the government planned the whole thing," he said. "Of course, we don't think the evidence leads that way at all."



The poll also found that 16 percent of Americans speculate that secretly planted explosives, not burning passenger jets, were the real reason the massive twin towers of the World Trade Center collapsed.

Conspiracy groups for at least two years have also questioned why the World Trade Center collapsed when fires that heavily damaged similar skyscrapers around the world did not cause such destruction. Sixteen percent said it's "very likely" or "somewhat likely" that "the collapse of the twin towers in New York was aided by explosives secretly planted in the two buildings."

Twelve percent suspect the Pentagon was struck by a military cruise missile in 2001 rather than by an airliner captured by terrorists.

University of Florida law professor Mark Fenster, author of the book "Conspiracy Theories: Secrecy and Power in American Culture," said the poll's findings reflect public anger at the unpopular Iraq war, realization that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction and growing doubts of the veracity of the Bush administration.

"What has amazed me is not that there are conspiracy theories, but that they didn't seem to be getting any purchase among the American public until the last year or so," Fenster said. "Although the Iraq war was not directly related to the 9/11 attacks, people are now looking back at 9/11 with much more skepticism than they used to."

The Scripps Survey Research Center at Ohio University has tracked the level of resentment people feel toward the federal government since 1995, starting shortly after Timothy McVeigh bombed the federal building in Oklahoma City. Forty-seven percent then said they, personally, feel "more angry at the federal government" than they used to. That percentage dropped to 42 percent in 1997, 34 percent in 1998 and only 12 percent shortly after 9/11 during the groundswell of patriotism and support for the government after the attacks.

But the new survey found that 77 percent say their friends and acquaintances have become angrier with the government recently and 54 percent say they, themselves, have become angrier -- both record levels.

The survey also found that people who regularly use the Internet but who do not regularly use so-called "mainstream" media are significantly more likely to believe in 9/11 conspiracies. People who regularly read daily newspapers or listen to radio newscasts were especially unlikely to believe in the conspiracies.

"We know that there are a lot of people now asking questions," said Janice Matthews, executive director of 911Truth.org, one of the most sophisticated Internet sites raising doubts about official explanations of the attacks. "We didn't have the Internet after Pearl Harbor, the Gulf of Tonkin or the Kennedy assassination. But we live in different times now."

The survey was conducted by telephone from July 6-24 at the Scripps Survey Research Center at the University of Ohio under a grant from the Scripps Howard Foundation. The poll has a margin of error of 4 percentage points.

Thomas Hargrove is a reporter for Scripps Howard News Service. Guido H. Stempel III is director of the Scripps Survey Research Center at Ohio University.


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/279827_conspiracy02ww.html

Bush deserves impeachment just for the lies he told to launch an illegal war. That makes him a war criminal, and derving of everybody's anger and contempt. John Conyers has issued a report detailing 26 violations of the US Code and international law by the Bush administration.

Bush is scum.

[zoombwaz]

To the point where you will belive anything negative about Bush? If it makes him look bad, you will accept it as truth, no matter how outragous the story is?
One of the hot topics over this past week was the recent polls suugesting that 1/3 of Americans believe that 9/11 was an inside job, pulled off by..Bush and Company! Since one third of Americans Identify themselves as liberal.. I believe we know where the majority of people who believe this to be true ..reside politically.

I wonder how many people who visit this forum and FP.com believe this to be true.. and why ....

Lets look at the logic .... Why would Bush want to blow up the Trade Center? To use it as an excuse to start a War in the Middle East. Why would he want to do that? To gain control over the middle east, thus it would give him control over the regions "OIL".
To pull this off ... he would have had to pull off one of ...if not Histories biggest cover up .... unless of course you are anyoldiron .. then that cover up would be the true nature of Jesus Christ.
Seriously, a cover up such as this would have to include participants willing to fly airplanes into buildings, unless of course the Planes were mysteriously taken over by ground control, "via" radio controll.. forced to take the path they took. Unlikely.
And of course .. you would have to include hundreds of willing participants in such a cover up. Conspiracy such as this gets more outragous as you begin to rip it apart step by step ....

But yet 1/3 of Americans believe ths to be the case .....


Thursday, August 3, 2006

Was 9/11 an 'inside job'?

By THOMAS HARGROVE AND GUIDO H. STEMPEL III
SCRIPPS HOWARD NEWS SERVICE

More than a third of the American public suspects that federal officials assisted in the 9/11 terrorist attacks or took no action to stop them so the United States could go to war in the Middle East, according to a new Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll.

The national survey of 1,010 adults also found that anger against the federal government is at record levels, with 54 percent saying they "personally are more angry" at the government than they used to be.

Widespread resentment and alienation toward the national government appear to be fueling a growing acceptance of conspiracy theories about the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

Suspicions that the 9/11 attacks were "an inside job" -- the common phrase used by conspiracy theorists on the Internet -- quickly have become nearly as popular as decades-old conspiracy theories that the federal government was responsible for President John F. Kennedy's assassination and that it has covered up proof of space aliens.

Seventy percent of people who give credence to these theories also say they've become angrier with the federal government than they used to be.

Thirty-six percent of respondents overall said it is "very likely" or "somewhat likely" that federal officials either participated in the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon or took no action to stop them "because they wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East."

"One out of three sounds high, but that may very well be right," said Lee Hamilton, former vice chairman of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (also called the 9/11 Commission). His congressionally appointed investigation concluded that federal officials bungled their attempts to prevent, but did not participate in, the attacks by al-Qaida five years ago.

"A lot of people I've encountered believe the U.S. government was involved," Hamilton said.

"Many say the government planned the whole thing," he said. "Of course, we don't think the evidence leads that way at all."



The poll also found that 16 percent of Americans speculate that secretly planted explosives, not burning passenger jets, were the real reason the massive twin towers of the World Trade Center collapsed.

Conspiracy groups for at least two years have also questioned why the World Trade Center collapsed when fires that heavily damaged similar skyscrapers around the world did not cause such destruction. Sixteen percent said it's "very likely" or "somewhat likely" that "the collapse of the twin towers in New York was aided by explosives secretly planted in the two buildings."

Twelve percent suspect the Pentagon was struck by a military cruise missile in 2001 rather than by an airliner captured by terrorists.

University of Florida law professor Mark Fenster, author of the book "Conspiracy Theories: Secrecy and Power in American Culture," said the poll's findings reflect public anger at the unpopular Iraq war, realization that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction and growing doubts of the veracity of the Bush administration.

"What has amazed me is not that there are conspiracy theories, but that they didn't seem to be getting any purchase among the American public until the last year or so," Fenster said. "Although the Iraq war was not directly related to the 9/11 attacks, people are now looking back at 9/11 with much more skepticism than they used to."

The Scripps Survey Research Center at Ohio University has tracked the level of resentment people feel toward the federal government since 1995, starting shortly after Timothy McVeigh bombed the federal building in Oklahoma City. Forty-seven percent then said they, personally, feel "more angry at the federal government" than they used to. That percentage dropped to 42 percent in 1997, 34 percent in 1998 and only 12 percent shortly after 9/11 during the groundswell of patriotism and support for the government after the attacks.

But the new survey found that 77 percent say their friends and acquaintances have become angrier with the government recently and 54 percent say they, themselves, have become angrier -- both record levels.

The survey also found that people who regularly use the Internet but who do not regularly use so-called "mainstream" media are significantly more likely to believe in 9/11 conspiracies. People who regularly read daily newspapers or listen to radio newscasts were especially unlikely to believe in the conspiracies.

"We know that there are a lot of people now asking questions," said Janice Matthews, executive director of 911Truth.org, one of the most sophisticated Internet sites raising doubts about official explanations of the attacks. "We didn't have the Internet after Pearl Harbor, the Gulf of Tonkin or the Kennedy assassination. But we live in different times now."

The survey was conducted by telephone from July 6-24 at the Scripps Survey Research Center at the University of Ohio under a grant from the Scripps Howard Foundation. The poll has a margin of error of 4 percentage points.

Thomas Hargrove is a reporter for Scripps Howard News Service. Guido H. Stempel III is director of the Scripps Survey Research Center at Ohio University.


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/279827_conspiracy02ww.html

By the way, no, you don't know that the 1/3 who think it was an inside job is the same 1/3 who self identify as liberal.

[klaatu]

Ok.. we know you think Bush is scum .... And you you trully believe he deserves impeachment just for the lies he told to launch an illegal war, and that it makes him a war criminal, I can understand your anger .... and that is not irrational thinking on your part .. there are legitimate reasons to think the way you do.....

But to believe that he is behind the bombing of the trade center as one third of the American people do? An overwheling majority of these people politically reside to the left, That sir is thinking irrationally ....
I want to see how the Democrats are going to comfort these voters ....

[klaatu]

By the way, no, you don't know that the 1/3 who think it was an inside job is the same 1/3 who self identify as liberal.

Uhm.. by the way .. there are several polls (zogby) that show this ....

Yeah .. Im sure an overwhelmg majority are conservative ..

What are you afraid of?

[Cypress]

To the point where you will belive anything negative about Bush? If it makes him look bad, you will accept it as truth, no matter how outragous the story is?

I've yet to see any conspspiracy theories achieve the widespread acceptance, as they did during the clinton era, when cons routinely accused clinton of murdering vince foster, raping women, and running cocaine out of the Mena airport.

[klaatu]

To the point where you will belive anything negative about Bush? If it makes him look bad, you will accept it as truth, no matter how outragous the story is?

I've yet to see any conspspiracy theories achieve the widespread acceptance, as they did during the clinton era, when cons routinely accused clinton of murdering vince foster, raping women, and running cocaine out of the Mena airport.

this comment leads me to believe that you are one of the 1/3rd who believes this .... why else would you counter with such absurdness?

If you kicked off a thread about Bush and I countered with what about Bill.. the first thing you would reply back with is ; Why bring Clinton up? Still stuck on Clinton huh ...?

But back to the meat of the thread .. admit it Cypress .. you believe this ....

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

To the point where you will belive anything negative about Bush? If it makes him look bad, you will accept it as truth, no matter how outragous the story is?

I've yet to see any conspspiracy theories achieve the widespread acceptance, as they did during the clinton era, when cons routinely accused clinton of murdering vince foster, raping women, and running cocaine out of the Mena airport.


You know, I don't recall a poll that indicated 1/3 of America believed Clinton murdered Vince Foster, raped women, or ran cocaine out of the Mena airport. In fact, aside from maybe Art Bell, I don't recall hearing any prominent conservative or republican (is Art republican?) who gave any of this stuff much credence. We tend to police our own nuts and kooks and not give them much of a forum, Democrats invite them to the convention and seat them with the former presidents.

[Cypress]

this comment leads me to believe that you are one of the 1/3rd who believes this .... why else would you counter with such absurdness?

If you kicked off a thread about Bush and I countered with what about Bill.. the first thing you would reply back with is ; Why bring Clinton up? Still stuck on Clinton huh ...?

But back to the meat of the thread .. admit it Cypress .. you believe this ....

No, I don't buy the 9/11 conspiracy theories.

Just pointing out your faux-outrage. You were, and have been, dead silent on the foolish clinton conspiracies.

[Care4all]

Well Klaatu, there are reasons people believe these type of things....it happens when our government is so secretive and not open.

It also happens when people read...things like our CIA purposing planning to shoot down a commercial airplane in Cuban waters, SO THAT THEY COULD SAY THAT CASTRO DID THIS, so that we could be brought in to a WAR against Castro ligitimately with the American people....this stuff has been released through the freedom of information act from what I understand....

So what makes things different now? Why would the same thing be done now?

I don't believe this to be the case and I agree with Maineman's post.....I think they let it happen....through inefficiencies....whether they were intentional or not, I would presume we won't find that out for another 50 decades...

But I will say one thing....there is NO WAY ON THIS EARTH, building 7 fell down, PERFECTLY on its root, because of some airplanes running in to it.....

sorry, perfect implosions just don't happen.....people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to reputable firms to make that happen....

But I do not discard that this could have been an act of God! ;)

care

[Damocles]

But I will say one thing....there is NO WAY ON THIS EARTH, building 7 fell down, PERFECTLY on its root, because of some airplanes running in to it.....

sorry, perfect implosions just don't happen.....people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to reputable firms to make that happen....

But I do not discard that this could have been an act of God! ;)

care

Building 7 fell down because its entire backside (load supporting) was gone. You get the picture of the front of the building but not that back... You never even read the links I gave you on the other site did you? I spent all that time researching and informing and all I get is a repeat of that post here?

[Care4all]

Building 7 fell down because its entire backside (load supporting) was gone. You get the picture of the front of the building but not that back... You never even read the links I gave you on the other site did you? I spent all that time researching and informing and all I get is a repeat of that post here?


if you could link me to the thread or tell me the name or a key word to search, i will go and read it now damo.... sorry! :(

so was this the case for ALL 3 buildings? they all fell upon them selves perfectly, each for different, legitimate reasons?

ok..........but my head, without reading this evidence you said you presented previously... just LOGICALLY can NOT fathom the odds AGAINST something like that happening.... :)

and good afternoon!

care

[Damocles]

if you could link me to the thread or tell me the name or a key word to search, i will go and read it now damo.... sorry! :(

so was this the case for ALL 3 buildings? they all fell upon them selves perfectly, each for different, legitimate reasons?

ok..........but my head, without reading this evidence you said you presented previously... just LOGICALLY can NOT fathom the odds AGAINST something like that happening.... :)

and good afternoon!

care
Here is the entirety of the article:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

It pretty much goes step-by-step through all of the conspiracy theories out there...

And good afternoon to you too!

[OrnotBitwise]

About half of all Americans still believe that Saddam Hussein had stockpiles of WMD at the time of Bush's invasion. Frankly, that's the more shocking statistic.

[gonzojournals]

I do not think that Bush planned and executed 9/11.

I DO, however, think that his neglectful inattention to the issue of wahabbist terrorism and its growing threat to America helped AQ to succeed in pulling 9/11 off.

He was pretty focused on star wars.... his own attorney general did, in fact, cut millions of dollars from the anti-terrorism task force the very day before 9/11.

You don't think the eight years of Clinton pussification had anything to do with our inefficiency? Or his policy of letting everyone in the world know that we back out of fights at the first signs of gunfire?

[gonzojournals]

About half of all Americans still believe that Saddam Hussein had stockpiles of WMD at the time of Bush's invasion. Frankly, that's the more shocking statistic.

How is that shocking? Your statement is based on the fact that you know the truth, but who is to say that you do? You get your news from the same sources everyone else does, but that doesn't mean it is true....unless you are omniscient and/or simultaneously in every part of Iraq, you probably shouldn't speak with such self-righteous arrogance.

[Damocles]

Link please! I'd like to see this statistic from a reasonable, and current, sourcing. Otherwise it's just throwing numbers around, I can do that too. 99% of the Senate knew it was a vote to go to war....

[maineman]

You don't think the eight years of Clinton pussification had anything to do with our inefficiency? Or his policy of letting everyone in the world know that we back out of fights at the first signs of gunfire?

Shit...Ronnie Reagan taught them that lesson in Beirut long before Clinton ever inherited the mess that Reagan's Veep left him in Somalia.

[OrnotBitwise]

Link please! I'd like to see this statistic from a reasonable, and current, sourcing. Otherwise it's just throwing numbers around, I can do that too. 99% of the Senate knew it was a vote to go to war....
http://www.suntimes.com/output/terror/cst-nws-wmd07.html
http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20060725112152862
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002878773

[Damocles]

http://www.suntimes.com/output/terror/cst-nws-wmd07.html
http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20060725112152862
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002878773
LOL. All three stories cite the same Harris Poll but give no methodology... They too are just throwing numbers around with no sourcing!

[NOVA]

The liberal mind truely borders on insanity....

[gonzojournals]

Shit...Ronnie Reagan taught them that lesson in Beirut long before Clinton ever inherited the mess that Reagan's Veep left him in Somalia.

Liberal Tactic #1- Shift the blame, no matter how bad they fucked up.

[ib1yysguy]

It's ALMOST as crazy as thinking, as Dixie and a good portion of those who voted for Bush do, that Iraq and 9/11 are linked.

[ib1yysguy]

Shifting blame aint no 'liberal' tactic, hack.

[Beefy]

Shifting blame aint no 'liberal' tactic, hack.

True. Its a tactic of everyone except Libertarians. BTW, the angry, disgruntled frown shtick is growing on me.

[gonzojournals]

Shifting blame aint no 'liberal' tactic, hack.

Good English buddy....keep it up and soon you might even be on Ebonics level.

[maineman]

Liberal Tactic #1- Shift the blame, no matter how bad they fucked up.

the point is, that is exactly what you are trying to do by claiming that Clinton taught them anything about American resolve (or lack thereof) that they weren't already clearly aware of.


Just accept the fact that big tough cowboy Ronnie Raygun - the hero of all neoconservative tough guys, did, in fact, tuck his cowardly tail between his legs and run away whimpering from Beirut the minute we were attacked by Hezbollah.

And accept the fact that Clinton just got us OUT of a mess that Bush I got us INTO.

[maineman]

The liberal mind truely borders on insanity....

oh goody! another pithy aphorism devoid of any REAL content.

The conservative mind truly approaches a perfect vacuum.

asshole.

[Jarod]

Liberal Tactic #1- Shift the blame, no matter how bad they fucked up.

uhhh, ya... like the turbo-cons who are still balming president Clinton for everything negative that comes up...!

[klaatu]

Justifying believing that Bush was behind 9/11 to that of believing that Saddam had stockpiles of WMD's and that he could have been linked to 9/11 says alot ... and I mean alot!!

What is more believable for crying out loud!! Thats Saddam had stock piles of WMD's ..and may have harbored Al Queda, or that Bush somehow ..the genius that he is ... concieved this plan to have people hijack passenger aircraft and fly them into the World Trade Center ... or that he had prior knowledge that this was going to happen and he said ... "hmmm... you know what Dick...? We should go ahead and let them do this .. We then can use it to justify invasions into Middle Eastern Countries ...."

[OrnotBitwise]

Justifying believing that Bush was behind 9/11 to that of believing that Saddam had stockpiles of WMD's and that he could have been linked to 9/11 says alot ... and I mean alot!!

What is more believable for crying out loud!! Thats Saddam had stock piles of WMD's ..and may have harbored Al Queda, or that Bush somehow ..the genius that he is ... concieved this plan to have people hijack passenger aircraft and fly them into the World Trade Center ... or that he had prior knowledge that this was going to happen and he said ... "hmmm... you know what Dick...? We should go ahead and let them do this .. We then can use it to justify invasions into Middle Eastern Countries ...."
Neither are particularly believable to me, but about equally so.

Does that really shock you? Why? You think that someone capable of such acts couldn't rise to power in this nation? That's a dangerous way to think, frankly. It's happened in other places and therefore it can happen here.

People are people, American or not. People that evil really do exist and do indeed rise to positions of power in both business and politics. Hell, they're likely to: ruthlessness pays, sad to say.

[Cypress]

Neither are particularly believable to me, but about equally so.

Does that really shock you? Why? You think that someone capable of such acts couldn't rise to power in this nation? That's a dangerous way to think, frankly. It's happened in other places and therefore it can happen here.

People are people, American or not. People that evil really do exist and do indeed rise to positions of power in both business and politics. Hell, they're likely to: ruthlessness pays, sad to say.

Right. People love conspiracy theories, for some reason.

The very same survey found that MORE people think the federal government was involved in assasinating John Kennedy:

"The level of suspicion of U.S. official involvement in a 9/11 conspiracy was only slightly behind the 40 percent who suspect "officials in the federal government were directly responsible for the assassination of President Kennedy" and the 38 percent who believe "the federal government is withholding proof of the existence of intelligent life from other planets."

[OrnotBitwise]

Right. People love conspiracy theories, for some reason.

The very same survey found that MORE people think the federal government was involved in assasinating John Kennedy:

"The level of suspicion of U.S. official involvement in a 9/11 conspiracy was only slightly behind the 40 percent who suspect "officials in the federal government were directly responsible for the assassination of President Kennedy" and the 38 percent who believe "the federal government is withholding proof of the existence of intelligent life from other planets."
Yeah, there's that too. Conspiracy theories are (a) kind of fun, in a twisted sort of way and (b) self sustaining once they get going.

For the record, I, personally, don't believe that BushCo either planned or even permitted the attacks of 9/11/2001. I say that because there's insufficient evidence, in my view, to lead me to conclude that they did. Also, they're a damned ham-fisted lot, not given to subtlety. Also they're inept.

On the other hand, I find nothing overly shocking or unbelievable in the idea that they might have.

[uscitizen]

LOL, about 50% still believe in the WMD myths as well. The US masses are by and large pretty stupid.