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Phantasmal
09-13-2010, 08:05 PM
Selling American workers and the nation out to the Chinese? No, the correct word for what we are up against is corporatism. A handful of corporatists claiming to be 'Christian conservatives' have hijacked and looted the nation. We will not be putting food on our tables if we don't take our stand.



The time for talk is done. The time for reading on the 'net or writing on it is done. It is time to stand against free trade. Spread the word. And let's defend our nation together.



What can you do? You may not expect there to be an answer, but there is.



If two-thirds of the economy is consumer spending, then what we choose to buy controls two-thirds of it. And so:



1) Stop shopping at Big Box stores. Not just Walmart, but also Home Depot. Applebees. Blockbuster. Support private, local businesses. Why? Because each of those support individual families, keeps the money local instead of having it all sent off to one corporate headquarters, and because smaller merchants pay fairer prices to distributors, who can pay fairer prices to manufacturers, who can pay fairer prices to suppliers, all of whom can then pay fairer wages to their employees. Big Box stores squeeze all of these to get your discount. One purchase at Target, and you have destroyed dozens of jobs and put under dozens of local businesses. A Home Depot, for example, eliminates paint stores, hardware stores, lighting stores, appliance stores, nurseries, lumber yards, and a whole host of businesses for several towns - as well as damages all of those who supply such stores.



Also, local merchants can choose to do what we all must do:



2) Buy local. As in stop buying, "Made in China." We have felt powerless maybe since we don't have say over what is on the shelves, but we do if we go to local merchants. Wal-Mart will tell you to f-yourself and your nation. A local merchant can order as the customers want. And honestly, there is choice if you put in some time.



We have become incredibly selfish, each of us just caring about saving a few bucks and some time, and we have sold each other out. We must stand together united, as one nation.



There is a label solution that will really help fix things further. But to start, you see that there is a lot you can do. Each time you spend a dollar you cast a vote. Every time you go to the self-check line at the supermarket, you cost someone their job. When you use an ATM instead of a teller. Which leads to:



3) Pay with cash or check - not credit or ATM card. Why? If you pay with credit card, the merchant pays a fee to the bank - a percentage usually of the purchase, up to 3% often. By paying with cash, you are directly increasing profit for the local merchant you shop at, instead of just handing it to the big banks that just looted us and that hand their CEO's multi-million dollar bonuses. 1-3% may not seem like a lot, but do the math. Say you go to a local suit store instead of the Big Box Men's Wearhouse. Instead of saving a few dollars but undermining dozens of suit makers', small store owners', and fabric suppliers' ability to make a living, you buy a suit from the little local guy. The suit is $200. 3% of that is $6. That might not seem like much, but that is pure extra profit. Instead of giving the bank $6 for no good reason, this local owner keeps an extra $6 per purchase. Guess what? Suddenly paying his clerks an extra dollar an hour becomes possible, and the owner has more money to spend locally - rather than, if you shopped at Men's Wearhouse, the clerk not making enough to live on, and the only owner making a living is the one guy you see on TV - who hands the cash that hundreds of local store owners would have been living on to TV stations, so they then can give it to sports teams and film studios so actors and athletes can make $20 million a year while we don't have any money to pay our bills.



See how this all works?



Shop small and local, buy locally made products, and pay with cash. You won't have to take my word for the fact you are making a difference. You will instantly know it. You can do the math each time you pay cash. You will experience the difference each time you buy locally. If we call our Congresspeople and Senators and change our shopping habits - and spread the word for others to do the same - we will, at last, begin to sew the first seeds of actual recovery.



If we don't, the collapse will be complete and the conservatives who caused it will blame liberal spending and step back into power and finish off our democracy once and for all.



This is no joke. This is our lives and livelihoods on the line. Let's stand together and get our nation back on track.

http://www.moderateindependent.com/v8iJANConservCollapse.htm

Hermes Thoth
09-13-2010, 09:16 PM
You're exactly right. we need to strike down some of these trade agreements that are incentivizing slavery abroad and destroying the lives of a majority of american workers.

RockX
09-13-2010, 10:49 PM
:lol:


Gee, where do you think your computer is made? How about that fucking energy saving piece of shit light bulb in your room? Both made in China

Unions have chased most of the manufacturing jobs out of the country, the others they have put them to the brink of bankruptcy, just look at the auto industry.

hotdog
09-14-2010, 12:02 AM
The only way to get are jobs back from China is to force are government to put economic sanctions on china.

Hermes Thoth
09-14-2010, 07:50 AM
:lol:


Gee, where do you think your computer is made? How about that fucking energy saving piece of shit light bulb in your room? Both made in China

Unions have chased most of the manufacturing jobs out of the country, the others they have put them to the brink of bankruptcy, just look at the auto industry.

HAHA. The appropriate trade policies will fix all this. Trade agreements are done in a top down fashion for a reason, individuals do not have the information or time to consider the long term ramifications and impact of their purchasing decision. Plus, large corporations are oftentimes controlled by those hostile to the nation, so they may purposefully make corporate purchases which fulfill their anti-american design.

Protectionism will save america. That's why so much money and classroom time is spent villifying the idea. Nothing angers the talking heads on tv more than someone seriously discussing protectionism. Their main job is villifying the concept.

DamnYankee
09-14-2010, 08:06 AM
HAHA. The appropriate trade policies will fix all this. Trade agreements are done in a top down fashion for a reason, individuals do not have the information or time to consider the long term ramifications and impact of their purchasing decision. Plus, large corporations are oftentimes controlled by those hostile to the nation, so they may purposefully make corporate purchases which fulfill their anti-american design.

Protectionism will save america. That's why so much money and classroom time is spent villifying the idea. Nothing angers the talking heads on tv more than someone seriously discussing protectionism. Their main job is villifying the concept.

I think you're about half right. Protectionism is good against cartels and unfair trade practices. But I have no doubt that with an even playing field US entrepreneurial companies and workers can make just about anything better faster cheaper. They just need the government to stop taxing and regulating them to death.

Hermes Thoth
09-14-2010, 08:11 AM
I think you're about half right. Protectionism is good against cartels and unfair trade practices. But I have no doubt that with an even playing field US entrepreneurial companies and workers can make just about anything better faster cheaper. They just need the government to stop taxing and regulating them to death.

Dude. It's about cheap labor as much as if not moreso than it's about taxation.

Things cost less in those countries. Multinationals have been gouging americans for years to subsidize other markets.

Please get over your neocon stupidity. It's about labor costs. How we can compete with people who make 20 cents an hour?

Things cost less in those countries. Multinationals have been gouging americans for years to subsidize other markets.

Please get over your neocon/libertarian stupidity. Just let it go.

The plan to destroy americans has been going on for a long time now, simplistic neocon bromides are not helpful.

DamnYankee
09-14-2010, 08:14 AM
Dude. It's about cheap labor as much as if not moreso than it's about taxation.

Things cost less in those countries. Multinationals have been gouging americans for years to subsidize other markets.

Please get over your neocon stupidity. It's about labor costs. How we can compete with people who make 20 cents an hour?

Things cost less in those countries. Multinationals have been gouging americans for years to subsidize other markets.

Please get over your neocon/libertarian stupidity. Just let it go.

The plan to destroy americans has been going on for a long time now, simplistic neocon bromides are not helpful.

Dude, who cares if cheap labor takes over mindless, labor-intensive jobs. Americans excel at jobs that require thinking.

Hermes Thoth
09-14-2010, 08:32 AM
Dude, who cares if cheap labor takes over mindless, labor-intensive jobs. Americans excel at jobs that require thinking.

Dude. It's not just mindless jobs. It's scientists, computer programmers, it's everything. That whole, "skills will save you" line is just a lie. They keep a certain amount of americans employed just to keep up appearances.

DamnYankee
09-14-2010, 08:43 AM
Dude. It's not just mindless jobs. It's scientists, computer programmers, it's everything. That whole, "skills will save you" line is just a lie. They keep a certain amount of americans employed just to keep up appearances.

Dude, the one thing that the rest of the world lacks is an ingrained entrepreneurial spirit. Only folks with intestinal fortitude dropped everything and emigrated to America, and for the most part, Americans are their offspring. Sure, the last generation or two became complacent, but those elite genes are still there. They just need to be challenged a little, and the competition from overseas, again, on a level playing field, will bring that.

hotdog
09-14-2010, 09:43 AM
Stop calling the Chinese slaves they are not. The chinese are happy that they produce everything it gives them jobs. Yes they get paid very little but since everything is made in China then can by things a lot heapier then Americans can. Things made in China are sold way way cheaper in China then in the U.S. They can live the same life style as an America making a lot less money. Chinese goods are a lot cheaper in China which means they are doing quit well. They may make less then a dollar and hour but a dollar in China buys a ton more then in the U.S.

Hermes Thoth
09-14-2010, 09:44 AM
Dude, the one thing that the rest of the world lacks is an ingrained entrepreneurial spirit. Only folks with intestinal fortitude dropped everything and emigrated to America, and for the most part, Americans are their offspring. Sure, the last generation or two became complacent, but those elite genes are still there. They just need to be challenged a little, and the competition from overseas, again, on a level playing field, will bring that.

It totally unlevel. The cost of living is so less there. How can we compete? it's not about rising to a challenge. You're still somewhat smoking neocon/libertarian crack.

The entire deck is stacked against americans, by design, precisely to put us all out of work and escort us into fema camps for extermination.

DamnYankee
09-14-2010, 09:54 AM
It totally unlevel. The cost of living is so less there. How can we compete? it's not about rising to a challenge. You're still somewhat smoking neocon/libertarian crack.

The entire deck is stacked against americans, by design, precisely to put us all out of work and escort us into fema camps for extermination.

The cost of living is so high here because our government is too big and had usurped its constitutionally mandated powers.

Hermes Thoth
09-14-2010, 09:56 AM
The cost of living is so high here because our government is too big and had usurped its constitutionally mandated powers.

No. Multinational corporations have been gouging us to subsidize overseas markets.

you're foolish to think it's all government. That's really foolish.

DamnYankee
09-14-2010, 10:41 AM
No. Multinational corporations have been gouging us to subsidize overseas markets.

you're foolish to think it's all government. That's really foolish.I'm a Reagan Conservative. Government is the problem.

Hermes Thoth
09-14-2010, 10:48 AM
I'm a Reagan Conservative. Government is the problem.

See. Simplistic neocon bromide.

Are you saying multinationals don't charge more here? Have you ever heard tourists exclaiming in excitement how far dollars go overseas? ANd that's in the tourist traps even.

Our cost of living here is much much higher, and it's not all because of government, you ignorant douche.

Please stop being brainwashed.

Phantasmal
09-14-2010, 12:57 PM
:lol:


Gee, where do you think your computer is made? How about that fucking energy saving piece of shit light bulb in your room? Both made in China

Unions have chased most of the manufacturing jobs out of the country, the others they have put them to the brink of bankruptcy, just look at the auto industry.
You have to start somewhere, it is just like people who don't vote because they claim their vote doesn't count.

hotdog
09-14-2010, 03:07 PM
America should pass a bill requiring all american corporations to pay their employees minimum wage. This would make it so they would have to pay people in third world countries the same minimum wage as americans. Would this end all the outsourcing and bring jobs back to america.

Hermes Thoth
09-14-2010, 03:17 PM
America should pass a bill requiring all american corporations to pay their employees minimum wage. This would make it so they would have to pay people in third world countries the same minimum wage as americans. Would this end all the outsourcing and bring jobs back to america.

That's dumb. We should just go to a few years of autarky to force corporations to hire americans. That would be better.

DamnYankee
09-16-2010, 06:37 AM
you ignorant douche.

How refreshing. :)

Hermes Thoth
09-16-2010, 08:05 AM
How refreshing. :)

But seriously. You were making such progress, then you just hit the neocon idiot reset button.

Hermes Thoth
09-16-2010, 08:06 AM
Stop calling the Chinese slaves they are not. The chinese are happy that they produce everything it gives them jobs. Yes they get paid very little but since everything is made in China then can by things a lot heapier then Americans can. Things made in China are sold way way cheaper in China then in the U.S. They can live the same life style as an America making a lot less money. Chinese goods are a lot cheaper in China which means they are doing quit well. They may make less then a dollar and hour but a dollar in China buys a ton more then in the U.S.

Are the ones committing suicide happy?

DamnYankee
09-16-2010, 10:47 AM
But seriously. You were making such progress, then you just hit the neocon idiot reset button.Stick with the "douche" line. I find it so... cleansing.

Phantasmal
09-16-2010, 10:51 AM
No. Multinational corporations have been gouging us to subsidize overseas markets.

you're foolish to think it's all government. That's really foolish.
Yes, they have been and the American public is beginning to catch wind of this, but they are still hypnotized by the promises everyone makes! They still believe all the crap that we are number one, even though we aren't.

I believe the USA is still the best place for me to live, but will it be that way for my grandchildren?

hotdog
09-16-2010, 03:04 PM
Are the ones committing suicide happy?

If China would end the one child policy which is no longer necessary then women would stop killing themselves. People in China are not killing themselves for economic reasons.

Hermes Thoth
09-16-2010, 05:41 PM
If China would end the one child policy which is no longer necessary then women would stop killing themselves. People in China are not killing themselves for economic reasons.

Umm. Yes they are. Chinese living in the wage slavery corporate work camps are killing themselves due to the horror of their lives.

Crashk
09-16-2010, 06:41 PM
Things are great in China... if you have no conscience, morals or soul like most American companies that have outsourced production to China.

"Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Loretta Tofani wrote a series of articles that appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune chronicling the human cost of poor working conditions in the factories, ranging from airborne poisons inhaled by workers to primitive machines that sever limbs."

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/july-dec07/china_11-20.html

Lets face it, workers in China have very few rights. But at least they know how to take care of management that screws up...
"Last month, Chinese authorities announced the arrest of almost 800 people involved in the sale or production of tainted food, drugs, and agricultural products. In July, China executed the country's chief of the food and drug administration, after he was found guilty of taking bribes and failing to supervise production properly."

zoombwaz
09-20-2010, 02:46 PM
Dude, who cares if cheap labor takes over mindless, labor-intensive jobs. Americans excel at jobs that require thinking.


And those Americans are being displaced in the job market by corporate misuse of the H1B visa, through which they bring in a foreign worker whose stay is limited to three years. They send him/her back home and bring in another, meaning that position is always filled by a non-American, with few benefits and pay that stays at entry level. They claim there is a scarcity of qualified American college graduates for these technical jobs, to which MIT, Virginia Tech, Cal Tech, Georgia Tech and the like say is complete bullshit. It's about cheap labor, and BTW, who cares about the labor-intensive manufacturing jobs? You should. No sustained economy can exist without a strong manufacturing base.

Did you have a good weekend? You wouldn't have one without the unions. I hate to have to point out the obvious, but the unions and government regulations wouldn't exist if they weren't needed. The wonderful private sector fought for years against laws banning child labor, and laws establishing the minimum wage and the 40 hour work week. There are so many scumbags in the private sector that the overtime laws had to be written so that workers can't "voluntarily" waive their legal right to OT. During the Reagan-Bush I regime, there was a movement afoot to establish a sub-minimum "training wage," since it's unfair to the poor,hard-pressed employers to expect them to pay the princely sum of minimum wage to untrained workers, who under the proposed law would be paid less than the minimum for six months after which they either had to be given a raise to minimum wage or terminated. Three guesses what the plan for those workers was, and if you guessed they would be given raises, then you truly are clueless. Leaving aside the fact that there isn't a minimum wage job in the fucking world that requires six months of training, the whole purpose of the plan was the de facto elimination of the minimum wage, even though it would have remained on the books. The Democrats and a handful of moderate Republicans closed ranks against this abomination and ,shot it down in flames, just as they did with yet another GOP attempt to screw Americans, this time out of their right to profit from their own intellectual property. The Bush I administration proposed to classify the recording of music as "work for hire," meaning the rights to the material would accrue to the labels and studios instead of the songwriters. Bonnie Raitt, John Hall (of the group Orleans, and now a Dem congressman), and a number of other musicians and songwriters caught wind of that steaming load and created enough of an uproar that the GOP gave up in the face of some horrendous PR. Of course, that was when they still knew what shame was...the current GOP crop can't even spell the word. Gone are the days when they could be shamed into doing the right thing, like the public uproar over Alfred Steiglitz's haunting photos of child workers shamed the GOP into voting with the Dems to outlaw child labor. Congress doesn't regulate on a whim, and they never have they have to be forced by public pressure to put a halt to the latest private sector depredation, and there is no such thing as a regulation cheats and crooks come out of the woodwork to take advantage of the government's laxity.

DamnYankee
09-20-2010, 03:43 PM
And those Americans are being displaced in the job market by corporate misuse of the H1B visa, through which they bring in a foreign worker whose stay is limited to three years. They send him/her back home and bring in another, meaning that position is always filled by a non-American, with few benefits and pay that stays at entry level. They claim there is a scarcity of qualified American college graduates for these technical jobs, to which MIT, Virginia Tech, Cal Tech, Georgia Tech and the like say is complete bullshit. It's about cheap labor, and BTW, who cares about the labor-intensive manufacturing jobs? You should. No sustained economy can exist without a strong manufacturing base.

Did you have a good weekend? You wouldn't have one without the unions. I hate to have to point out the obvious, but the unions and government regulations wouldn't exist if they weren't needed. The wonderful private sector fought for years against laws banning child labor, and laws establishing the minimum wage and the 40 hour work week. There are so many scumbags in the private sector that the overtime laws had to be written so that workers can't "voluntarily" waive their legal right to OT. During the Reagan-Bush I regime, there was a movement afoot to establish a sub-minimum "training wage," since it's unfair to the poor,hard-pressed employers to expect them to pay the princely sum of minimum wage to untrained workers, who under the proposed law would be paid less than the minimum for six months after which they either had to be given a raise to minimum wage or terminated. Three guesses what the plan for those workers was, and if you guessed they would be given raises, then you truly are clueless. Leaving aside the fact that there isn't a minimum wage job in the fucking world that requires six months of training, the whole purpose of the plan was the de facto elimination of the minimum wage, even though it would have remained on the books. The Democrats and a handful of moderate Republicans closed ranks against this abomination and ,shot it down in flames, just as they did with yet another GOP attempt to screw Americans, this time out of their right to profit from their own intellectual property. The Bush I administration proposed to classify the recording of music as "work for hire," meaning the rights to the material would accrue to the labels and studios instead of the songwriters. Bonnie Raitt, John Hall (of the group Orleans, and now a Dem congressman), and a number of other musicians and songwriters caught wind of that steaming load and created enough of an uproar that the GOP gave up in the face of some horrendous PR. Of course, that was when they still knew what shame was...the current GOP crop can't even spell the word. Gone are the days when they could be shamed into doing the right thing, like the public uproar over Alfred Steiglitz's haunting photos of child workers shamed the GOP into voting with the Dems to outlaw child labor. Congress doesn't regulate on a whim, and they never have they have to be forced by public pressure to put a halt to the latest private sector depredation, and there is no such thing as a regulation cheats and crooks come out of the woodwork to take advantage of the government's laxity.

Sorry, I'm not responding to anything until you address these unanswered posts:
http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showpost.php?p=700218&postcount=67
http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showpost.php?p=704511&postcount=40
http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showpost.php?p=703904&postcount=34
http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showpost.php?p=700777&postcount=95
http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showpost.php?p=701130&postcount=68

Hermes Thoth
09-20-2010, 03:58 PM
Sorry, I'm not responding to anything until you address these unanswered posts:

He's right, dipcheeze.

Modern day neocon and libertarian fucktards look at a workplace and a nation that's the result of many pro labor reforms and pretend like it's just the product of a free market. I used to do it too. It's not intellectually honest.

DamnYankee
09-20-2010, 05:46 PM
He's right, dipcheeze.

Modern day neocon and libertarian fucktards look at a workplace and a nation that's the result of many pro labor reforms and pretend like it's just the product of a free market. I used to do it too. It's not intellectually honest.

It can be. Just limit the government and declare unions illegal. Cheese Whiz.

Phantasmal
09-20-2010, 07:35 PM
It can be. Just limit the government and declare unions illegal. Cheese Whiz.
What do unions and government have to do with each other? How about corporations paying an honest wage to their workers? and not giving all the profits to the share holders? The workers invest in the companies, too!

DamnYankee
09-20-2010, 07:40 PM
What do unions and government have to do with each other? How about corporations paying an honest wage to their workers? and not giving all the profits to the share holders? The workers invest in the companies, too! Who are you to say what wage is honest or not? Let the market decide.

Phantasmal
09-20-2010, 10:42 PM
Who are you to say what wage is honest or not? Let the market decide.
The market is not fair! it should not be the deciding factor. There is no such thing as free market! There is only fair market! and fair wage!

DamnYankee
09-21-2010, 05:55 AM
The market is not fair! it should not be the deciding factor. There is no such thing as free market! There is only fair market! and fair wage!The market is the only thing that is fair. Who makes the decision that a wage "isn't fair"?

Hermes Thoth
09-21-2010, 06:56 AM
The market is the only thing that is fair. Who makes the decision that a wage "isn't fair"?

Markets forces are market forces. The government has a duty to see that market forces are sculpted in a way that benefit the majority of citizens reasonably.

Markets are manipulated, by labor and by corporations.

This is why markets must be constrained within in limits set by other standards and considerations, like morality or national security.

for instance, kiddie porn is illegal, even though there's a market for it.

Outsourcing all production may be profitable for multinationals, but the country loses control of it's supply chain, which can be a national security risk, and can also suck all the wealth from the country over time.

Do you understand any of the words i'm saying, blockhead?

DamnYankee
09-21-2010, 07:57 AM
What?

Hermes Thoth
09-21-2010, 08:01 AM
What?

Please formulate a more succinct question. Or copy paste a sentence you don't understand, OR a word you don't know.

DamnYankee
09-21-2010, 08:04 AM
Cheese Whiz.

Phantasmal
09-21-2010, 04:20 PM
The market is the only thing that is fair. Who makes the decision that a wage "isn't fair"?
The person who can't live on one job to meet his daily necessities.

DamnYankee
09-22-2010, 06:20 AM
The person who can't live on one job to meet his daily necessities.Then he should reduce his expenditures or get a better job.

Hermes Thoth
09-22-2010, 07:23 AM
Then he should reduce his expenditures or get a better job.

But corporations are trying to send every job possible overseas.

We need protectionism and immigration reduction to increase the standard of living in america.

These have been part of trade throughout history. It only in neocon/libertarian/globalist idiot land that these things are socialism.

augustino5150
09-22-2010, 09:21 AM
The cost of living is so high here because our government is too big and had usurped its constitutionally mandated powers.

The cost of living is so high here because the top twenty five hedge fund managers have made over eight billion each in the greatest robbery of a nation's wealth in world history. A king could fix our economy in a day by simply beheading the top twenty five...bring back Henry the Eighth!

DamnYankee
09-22-2010, 09:47 AM
The cost of living is so high here because the top twenty five hedge fund managers have made over eight billion each in the greatest robbery of a nation's wealth in world history. A king could fix our economy in a day by simply beheading the top twenty five...bring back Henry the Eighth! How does killing 25 of the richest hedge fund managers lower the cost of living for you? Please teach me economics. :)

Phantasmal
09-22-2010, 09:40 PM
How does killing 25 of the richest hedge fund managers lower the cost of living for you? Please teach me economics. :)
It is the trickle out method used by radicals, it doesn't make sense, it doesn't have to, it is just getting enough people to "go along for the ride"