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View Full Version : Top military comander in Iraq, contradicts Dixie!



Jarod
08-03-2006, 08:41 AM
The top U.S. military commander in the Middle East told Congress on Thursday that "Iraq could move toward civil war" if the raging sectarian violence in Baghdad is not stopped.

"I believe that the sectarian violence is probably as bad as I have seen it," Gen. John Abizaid, the commander of U.S. Central Command, told the Senate Armed Services Committee. He said the top priority in the Iraq war is to secure the capital, where factional violence has surged in recent weeks despite efforts by the new Iraqi government to stop the fighting.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/08/03/D8J90H7O0.html


Stark contrast to the insurgency being in its "last throws"!

Gusee Abizaid is on the side of the terrorists.. I wish he would stop "cheer-leading" the insurgents!

Damocles
08-03-2006, 08:50 AM
Sectarian violence is not the same as the insurgency. They are two separate issues. Sectarian violence is something that Saddam dealt with by simply killing whole villages...

Jarod
08-03-2006, 08:55 AM
Sectarian violence is not the same as the insurgency. They are two separate issues. Sectarian violence is something that Saddam dealt with by simply killing whole villages...


Please explain the difference...

Jarod
08-03-2006, 08:58 AM
Is the general on the side of the insurgents? Is he Cheerleading the terrorists? Is he providing aid and comfort to the enemy?

Damocles
08-03-2006, 08:58 AM
Please explain the difference...
The difference is Iraqis attacking Iraqis over Sectarian differences rather than Iraqis attacking US forces because of occupation...

One is a regular occurence there and will be as long as they allow themselves to fight over religious differences, the other can be fixed simply by leaving.

Cypress
08-03-2006, 08:59 AM
Sectarian violence is not the same as the insurgency. They are two separate issues. Sectarian violence is something that Saddam dealt with by simply killing whole villages...

Indeed. But the part of the article posted refers to the emerging civil war in Iraq, not the anti-american insurgency. So, I'm not sure what the insurgency has to do with the pasted portion of the artical.

Damocles
08-03-2006, 08:59 AM
Is the general on the side of the insurgents? Is he Cheerleading the terrorists? Is he providing aid and comfort to the enemy?
Wha? Who has said anything like this? Methinks you are assuming an opinion and in doing so setting up strawmen.

Damocles
08-03-2006, 09:00 AM
Indeed. But the part of the article posted refers to the emerging civil war in Iraq, not the anti-american insurgency. So, I'm not sure what the insurgency has to do with the pasted portion of the artical.
It was in answer to the "insurgency in its last throes" comment in the original post.

Cypress
08-03-2006, 09:02 AM
Is the general on the side of the insurgents? Is he Cheerleading the terrorists? Is he providing aid and comfort to the enemy?

What were seeing is exactly what happend in 2003.

bush, rumsfeld and the pentagon tried to deny for many months that there even was an emerging guerilla war or insurgency. I think even as late as December 2003, Rumsfeld was denying there was a credible insurgency taking root.

Same playbook here. The admin has denied a civil war has taken root for the past year. As the facts and evidence bypass them, they have to modify their statements. Here, we see the beginnings of an acknowlegement of reality.

Cypress
08-03-2006, 09:04 AM
It was in answer to the "insurgency in its last throes" comment in the original post.

Okay. Right.

The problem has metastized. The insurgency is still as strong as it ever was, but has metatisized into a civil war, as well.

Jarod
08-03-2006, 09:04 AM
The difference is Iraqis attacking Iraqis over Sectarian differences rather than Iraqis attacking US forces because of occupation...

One is a regular occurence there and will be as long as they allow themselves to fight over religious differences, the other can be fixed simply by leaving.


Thanks, I was unclear on the difference. So sectarian violence is worse than insurgent violence as we do not have a simple solution to the Sectarian violence. What a mess we, strike that, those who voted Republican made.

Jarod
08-03-2006, 09:06 AM
So is Abizaid providing aid and comfort to the enemy by saying this?

Cypress
08-03-2006, 09:07 AM
Thanks, I was unclear on the difference. So sectarian violence is worse than insurgent violence as we do not have a simple solution to the Sectarian violence. What a mess we, strike that, those who voted Republican made.


Of course, its the ever-evolving spin from the white house.

Last year, when civilians were getting blown up, it was because of terrorists.. Then it was because of insurgents. Now, its because of waring factions in a civil war.

The root cause of the problem remains the same: Bush's incompetence.

Damocles
08-03-2006, 09:07 AM
Okay. Right.

The problem has metastized. The insurgency is still as strong as it ever was, but has metatisized into a civil war, as well.
It's a continuation of the same sectarian violence that has always been evident since the creation of Iraq. It isn't a natural State, it was created out of whole cloth without regard to the cultural differences of the population.

The main difference is in the reaction, before it was a slash and burn answer that kept people from doing this out of fear of reprisal. Now it is a disjointed effort at law enforcement that is behind the curve on keeping it in line...

charver
08-03-2006, 09:08 AM
The good General isn't alone in his views. The last report from "our man" in Baghdad, British ambassador, William Patey, has been leaked and he is saying the same thing.

"The prospect of a low intensity civil war and a de facto division of Iraq is probably more likely at this stage than a successful and substantial transition to a stable democracy"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5240808.stm

toby
08-03-2006, 09:09 AM
Poor Jarad. he thinks a general who says violence is as bad as he has seen it, somehow supports violence! LOL

Jarod
08-03-2006, 09:11 AM
It's a continuation of the same sectarian violence that has always been evident since the creation of Iraq. It isn't a natural State, it was created out of whole cloth without regard to the cultural differences of the population.

The main difference is in the reaction, before it was a slash and burn answer that kept people from doing this out of fear of reprisal. Now it is a disjointed effort at law enforcement that is behind the curve on keeping it in line...

Ill quote Colon Powell when he advised president Bush not to invade Iraq..."You broke it, you bought it."... "You will be responsable for the lives and safety of millions of Innocent Iraquis."

Damocles
08-03-2006, 09:13 AM
Ill quote Colon Powell when he advised president Bush not to invade Iraq..."You broke it, you bought it."... "You will be responsable for the lives and safety of millions of Innocent Iraquis."
I agree. I was against this action from the beginning. I don't believe in undeclared "war" or in nation-building. I stated long before no WMD were found that it was not a good enough reason to go anyway. The "WMD" that Iraq had was pretty ineffective stuff...

Jarod
08-03-2006, 09:15 AM
I agree. I was against this action from the beginning. I don't believe in undeclared "war" or in nation-building. I stated long before no WMD were found that it was not a good enough reason to go anyway. The "WMD" that Iraq had was pretty ineffective stuff...


I agree and agreed.

Does anyone still support Bush and or his war?

Care4all
08-03-2006, 09:16 AM
The difference is Iraqis attacking Iraqis over Sectarian differences rather than Iraqis attacking US forces because of occupation...

One is a regular occurence there and will be as long as they allow themselves to fight over religious differences, the other can be fixed simply by leaving.
what are the religious differences between the sunni and shiites? do you know offhand damo?

also, aren't hezbollah, shiites? aren't iranians? what were we thinking, longterm, when we planned to put the shiites in power....knowing they were the same tribe as the iranians? or were ''they'' not thinking?

didn't the cia back in the late 50's/60's help saddam rise to power to fight off the shiite control?

aren't all shiites really persians and not arabs? iran is primarily the old persia, right?


i saw parts a history channel special on the rise of the Bath party and then saddam, and the middle east in general the other night and though i missed a great deal of it, i can honestly say that the middle east is a mess right now.....because of the BRITS! it is anyold's ancestor's fault! ;)

Cypress
08-03-2006, 09:18 AM
I agree and agreed.

Does anyone still support Bush and or his war?

Dixie and Toby.

Jarod
08-03-2006, 09:20 AM
So any recomendations on how the US should get out of this mess?

Cypress
08-03-2006, 09:20 AM
what are the religious differences between the sunni and shiites? do you know offhand damo?

also, aren't hezbollah, shiites? aren't iranians? what were we thinking, longterm, when we planned to put the shiites in power....

I don't know the specific theological differences.

But bush didn't know the difference between shia and suni. At least before the war. That's on record.

I suspect many of his cheerleaders didn't either.

toby
08-03-2006, 09:29 AM
Powell was not opposed to the war.

Damocles
08-03-2006, 09:29 AM
what are the religious differences between the sunni and shiites? do you know offhand damo?

Basically the Shi'a Muslims believe that their Imam is directly chosen by God and is therefore infallible (like the Pope), while the Sunnis hold no such belief. Thus Shi'a Muslims believe that edicts from the Imam are directly from God through his infallibility while the Sunnis hold that only the Koran and other writings from the Prophet are the only religious texts...



also, aren't hezbollah, shiites? aren't iranians? what were we thinking, longterm, when we planned to put the shiites in power....knowing they were the same tribe as the iranians? or were ''they'' not thinking?


Probably Hizbollah are shiites and Iranians are mostly shiite...



didn't the cia back in the late 50's/60's help saddam rise to power to fight off the shiite control?

aren't all shiites really persians and not arabs? iran is primarily the old persia, right?


Not all Shiites are Persians and not Arabs... They are a sect of a religion, like Protestants and Catholics...



i saw parts a history channel special on the rise of the Bath party and then saddam, and the middle east in general the other night and though i missed a great deal of it, i can honestly say that the middle east is a mess right now.....because of the BRITS! it is anyold's ancestor's fault! ;)

Yeah, the Western world hasn't done real well there...

Damocles
08-03-2006, 09:32 AM
So any recomendations on how the US should get out of this mess?

I think we are in for the long haul regardless of whether we leave Iraq at this moment in time. Remember that this particular religion is in about the same stage as Christianity was back in the Middle Ages... It will take time for it to grow beyond that mentality. Basically we need to convince a Shiite Imam to teach peaceful resolution... This isn't going to happen by just walking away.

Jarod
08-03-2006, 09:32 AM
Basically the Shi'a Muslims believe that their Imam is directly chosen by God and is therefore infallible (like the Pope), while the Sunnis hold no such belief. Thus Shi'a Muslims believe that edicts from the Imam are directly from God through his infallibility while the Sunnis hold that only the Koran and other writings from the Prophet are the only religious texts...



Probably Hizbollah are shiites and Iranians are mostly shiite...



Not all Shiites are Persians and not Arabs... They are a sect of a religion, like Protestants and Catholics...



Yeah, the Western world hasn't done real well there...


I always learn a lot talking with Damo... Thanks.

Jarod
08-03-2006, 09:34 AM
I think we are in for the long haul regardless of whether we leave Iraq at this moment in time. Remember that this particular religion is in about the same stage as Christianity was back in the Middle Ages... It will take time for it to grow beyond that mentality. Basically we need to convince a Shiite Imam to teach peaceful resolution... This isn't going to happen by just walking away.


I agree, its one of the reasons I was against going in origionally, now I think we will be there for at least a generation. I just hope my new born son does not have to serve in Iraq due to the mistakes of those who voted for Bush. :mad:

Damocles
08-03-2006, 09:37 AM
Ah, I'm pretty sure I know who this is... now. ;)

Jarod
08-03-2006, 09:39 AM
Ah, I'm pretty sure I know who this is... now. ;)


I said who I am a couple days ago.. guess you missed it. I am Alex.:cof1:

Damocles
08-03-2006, 09:40 AM
Must be using spellcheck... :D

Jarod
08-03-2006, 09:41 AM
Does it not make sense to say to the world community, oops, we should have listened to you... Sorry. Now we need help.

Then get the UN involved and get a multi-national force to promote and work toward a stable government in the region previously known as Iraq?

Lets make this a UN operation, spread the cost and liablity. We have done the same for others who made mistakes... Hell Vietnam was us basically bailing out the French...

Jarod
08-03-2006, 09:42 AM
Must be using spellcheck... :D


No, just spelling better lately... I dont know why, but I go through phases. Brain chemistry I guess.

Damocles
08-03-2006, 09:43 AM
Does it not make sense to say to the world community, oops, we should have listened to you... Sorry. Now we need help.

Then get the UN involved and get a multi-national force to promote and work toward a stable government in the region previously known as Iraq?

Lets make this a UN operation, spread the cost and liablity. We have done the same for others who made mistakes... Hell Vietnam was us basically bailing out the French...

I wish we had the foresight to include the French and others if only in their companies providing support... Contracts went only to US companies and this has made even this more difficult. It would be very difficult to hand this over to the UN now...

Jarod
08-03-2006, 09:46 AM
I wish we had the foresight to include the French and others if only in their companies providing support... Contracts went only to US companies and this has made even this more difficult. It would be very difficult to hand this over to the UN now...


Would it not be a simple matter of breaking some contracts and paying out some money in dammages? :cool: If it means saving lives and a quicker resolution to the catrosphe in Iraq...

Damocles
08-03-2006, 09:53 AM
Would it not be a simple matter of breaking some contracts and paying out some money in dammages? :cool: If it means saving lives and a quicker resolution to the catrosphe in Iraq...
If I were a French company I wouldn't want to muck around there right now...

It would have been far easier to let them bid at the beginning instead of trying to "punish" them for not helping us out...

Cypress
08-03-2006, 09:57 AM
I wish we had the foresight to include the French and others if only in their companies providing support... Contracts went only to US companies and this has made even this more difficult. It would be very difficult to hand this over to the UN now...

God bless you. Your a real internationalist and multi-lateralist. Something we need more of to suceed.

You almost sound like John Kerry or Joe Biden ;)

Jarod
08-03-2006, 09:59 AM
If I were a French company I wouldn't want to muck around there right now...

It would have been far easier to let them bid at the beginning instead of trying to "punish" them for not helping us out...


I agree on how it should have been run... but I am talking about going forward. There is money to be made by companies who help... I want them to be French if that helps our goal of fixing the HELL we have created for the people of Iraq. There are plenty of FRENCH or any other nationality willing to "muck around" Iraq if there is money to be made.

Damocles
08-03-2006, 10:24 AM
I agree on how it should have been run... but I am talking about going forward. There is money to be made by companies who help... I want them to be French if that helps our goal of fixing the HELL we have created for the people of Iraq. There are plenty of FRENCH or any other nationality willing to "muck around" Iraq if there is money to be made.
Then let them. That is a beginning, the first step to nationalizing this. The French and other governments would be more willing to nationalize the rebuilding if they had companies there to protect.

maineman
08-03-2006, 11:42 AM
Isn't this odd? I could have SWORN that Dixie said that Iraq was quickly evolving into a vibrant pro-western democracy that would serve as a beacon of freedom that would beam its enlightening spirit into all the oppressive regimes in the middle east. I could have SWORN that Dixie routinely called anyone and everyone a treasonous traitor who even suggested for a moment that things weren't just totally peachy in Iraq....does that mean that Abezaid is a cut and run Al Qaeda sympathizer along with all the liberals on here?

OrnotBitwise
08-03-2006, 11:45 AM
Isn't this odd? I could have SWORN that Dixie said that Iraq was quickly evolving into a vibrant pro-western democracy that would serve as a beacon of freedom that would beam its enlightening spirit into all the oppressive regimes in the middle east. I could have SWORN that Dixie routinely called anyone and everyone a treasonous traitor who even suggested for a moment that things weren't just totally peachy in Iraq....does that mean that Abezaid is a cut and run Al Qaeda sympathizer along with all the liberals on here?
Yep.
http://home.indy.rr.com/kevinandjill/CheeseEatingSurrenderMonkey%5B1%5D.jpg

Cypress
08-03-2006, 11:54 AM
Isn't this odd? I could have SWORN that Dixie said that Iraq was quickly evolving into a vibrant pro-western democracy that would serve as a beacon of freedom that would beam its enlightening spirit into all the oppressive regimes in the middle east. I could have SWORN that Dixie routinely called anyone and everyone a treasonous traitor who even suggested for a moment that things weren't just totally peachy in Iraq....does that mean that Abezaid is a cut and run Al Qaeda sympathizer along with all the liberals on here?

Its a civil war, of Bush's making.

If you want to bust a gut laughing, check out the Neocon media's "new" reasons for the iraq war.

Glenn Beck was on CNN saying that Bush had to lie and mislead about WMD being the reason for the war, because he couldn't share the "real" reason for his war: which was supposedly to "surround" Iran with two pro-western democracies in Iraq and Afghanitstan.

Oddly, Beck never addressed the fact that we actuall removed two of shia-dominated Iran's worst enemies: The sunni extremists in the Taliban, and the secular bath socialists in Iraq.

Damocles
08-03-2006, 12:00 PM
Its a civil war, of Bush's making.

If you want to bust a gut laughing, check out the Neocon media's "new" reasons for the iraq war.

Glenn Beck was on CNN saying that Bush had to lie and mislead about WMD being the reason for the war, because he couldn't share the "real" reason for his war: which was supposedly to "surround" Iran with two pro-western democracies in Iraq and Afghanitstan.

Oddly, Beck never addressed the fact that we actuall removed two of shia-dominated Iran's worst enemies: The sunni extremists in the Taliban, and the secular bath socialists in Iraq.

Amazingly I have stated from the beginning that this was the Admin's goal there, even while I stated that we shouldn't be going there....

I wonder if he's been reading my posts.

:cool:

Damocles
08-03-2006, 12:00 PM
Yep.
http://home.indy.rr.com/kevinandjill/CheeseEatingSurrenderMonkey%5B1%5D.jpg
Silly surrender monkey...

LOL.

maineman
08-03-2006, 12:51 PM
does everyone else find it as odd as I do that Dixie has yet to appear on this thread and defend his previous rosy scenarios?

OrnotBitwise
08-03-2006, 12:57 PM
does everyone else find it as odd as I do that Dixie has yet to appear on this thread and defend his previous rosy scenarios?
No. What's he going to say, after all?
:cof1:

maineman
08-03-2006, 01:01 PM
Oh....you just KNOW that he can at least try to spin this to be good news for neoconservatism.... he just needs to listen up to his talk radio gurus for the right words to use.

Cypress
08-03-2006, 01:39 PM
Last we heard from Dixie on this topie to any great extent, on FP.com, was that freedome was on the march and the insurgency was in its demise.

OrnotBitwise
08-03-2006, 01:41 PM
Last we heard from Dixie on this topie to any great extent, on FP.com, was that freedome was on the march and the insurgency was in its demise.
Well, he's undoubtedly right about the demise part. It's just a very long, very slow demise.

Jarod
08-03-2006, 03:26 PM
Isn't this odd? I could have SWORN that Dixie said that Iraq was quickly evolving into a vibrant pro-western democracy that would serve as a beacon of freedom that would beam its enlightening spirit into all the oppressive regimes in the middle east. I could have SWORN that Dixie routinely called anyone and everyone a treasonous traitor who even suggested for a moment that things weren't just totally peachy in Iraq....does that mean that Abezaid is a cut and run Al Qaeda sympathizer along with all the liberals on here?

Why do you think Dixie has been absent today?

maineman
08-03-2006, 05:12 PM
his little fairy tale world is crumbling around him.... How can he continue to wear rose colored glasses and tell us what a success Iraq was and what a absolutely fabulous idea it was to invade, conquer and occupy an oil rich arab nation just like OBL said it would when the whole thing is now falling apart, the arab street is increasingly radical and increasingly anti-American, and even his beloved generals are warning that civil war is on its way.

He posts about Intelligent design and NCAA football picks.... ANYTHING to avoid facing his own terrible failures.

Sir Evil
08-03-2006, 06:30 PM
his little fairy tale world is crumbling around him.... How can he continue to wear rose colored glasses and tell us what a success Iraq was and what a absolutely fabulous idea it was to invade, conquer and occupy an oil rich arab nation just like OBL said it would when the whole thing is now falling apart, the arab street is increasingly radical and increasingly anti-American, and even his beloved generals are warning that civil war is on its way.

He posts about Intelligent design and NCAA football picks.... ANYTHING to avoid facing his own terrible failures.

:shock:

Hmmm 13 years of defiance from Iraq, what ever should of been done? I guess it would be better to be fighting the insurgency here right? Oh I see, had we not invaded Iraq there would never of been any insurgents there right, they just turn on the terrorist mentality depending on the situation?

The entire middle east is littered with the radicals thanks to many years of appeasment from the left wingers that felt they could be ignored!:rolleyes:

Jarod
08-03-2006, 06:36 PM
:shock:

Hmmm 13 years of defiance from Iraq, what ever should of been done? I guess it would be better to be fighting the insurgency here right? Oh I see, had we not invaded Iraq there would never of been any insurgents there right, they just turn on the terrorist mentality depending on the situation?

The entire middle east is littered with the radicals thanks to many years of appeasment from the left wingers that felt they could be ignored!:rolleyes:

You are a silly silly silly person. Iraq has never, ever, not once attaked anywhere close to the United States of America.

Sir Evil
08-03-2006, 06:40 PM
You are a silly silly silly person. Iraq has never, ever, not once attaked anywhere close to the United States of America.

Superb comeback brother! so how about those 13 years of wasted UN sanctions, how about fighting terrorism abroad as opposed to hear at home, how about attacking my opinion with something with a little more substance?

maineman
08-03-2006, 06:59 PM
Superb comeback brother! so how about those 13 years of wasted UN sanctions, how about fighting terrorism abroad as opposed to hear at home, how about attacking my opinion with something with a little more substance?

according to Bush's first secretary of state a full six months BEFORE 9/11, the sanctions had done their job.... Saddam was not a threat to anyone in the region and was incapable of projecting power beyond his own borders, let alone across the atlantic.

And your question "how about fighting terrorism abroad as opposed to hear at home?" is an abusrd either/or construction where one does not exist. The alternative to NOT invading Iraq was never simply being resigned to fighting Islamic fundamentalists on OUR shores. This black/white...on/off... hot/cold... evil/good eversimplification of the entire world and all its problems is what got us into this mess in the first place.

The middle east hates us with a broadly held passion they NEVER felt prior to our invasion of Iraq.

Sir Evil
08-03-2006, 07:11 PM
according to Bush's first secretary of state a full six months BEFORE 9/11, the sanctions had done their job.... Saddam was not a threat to anyone in the region and was incapable of projecting power beyond his own borders, let alone across the atlantic.

Perhaps this is why Bush has a new secretary of state!

Agreed that saddam was no direct threat to this side of the atlantic with his weapons of know thus far. But to say that he was not a threat to anyone in his own region is a thought of someone equally demented as he was himself!
The amn was a murderer of many of his own, not to mention his incursions into neighboring countries before our invasion. I guess Iran not having nuclear weapons at the moment poses no threat to anyone as well? The thinking amongs these people is largely the same all over the middle east.



they NEVER felt prior to our invasion of Iraq.

Holy hell, where have you been pal? Iran has been chanting the death of America for the past quarter century! this is the uprising that has been escalating and it is more widespread than just Iran, see the current war going on over in Lebanon? Who is hizbollah? who is fueling their fire? think there is no hizbollah faction in Iraq & Afghanistan? don't kid yourself....

ThreadDirector
08-03-2006, 07:22 PM
Enter Stage Left (Leftwing Hoard)

Leftwing Hoard! Listen now! Begin the pile on! Sir Evil, your job here is to cave or get suffocated in the pile!

maineman
08-03-2006, 07:33 PM
Perhaps this is why Bush has a new secretary of state!

until he lied his ass of to the UNSC, Colin Powell was twice the secretary of state that skinny little provost will EVER be

Agreed that saddam was no direct threat to this side of the atlantic with his weapons of know thus far. But to say that he was not a threat to anyone in his own region is a thought of someone equally demented as he was himself!
The amn was a murderer of many of his own, not to mention his incursions into neighboring countries before our invasion. I guess Iran not having nuclear weapons at the moment poses no threat to anyone as well? The thinking amongs these people is largely the same all over the middle east.

the fact is, our sanctions in the wake of the first gulf war had made Saddam impotent in the region. He was no threat to even Kuwait anymore...let alone the US...but Bush had us all frightened with horrific images of mushroom clouds over american cities from Iraqi nukes.... lying bastards



Holy hell, where have you been pal? Iran has been chanting the death of America for the past quarter century! this is the uprising that has been escalating and it is more widespread than just Iran, see the current war going on over in Lebanon? Who is hizbollah? who is fueling their fire? think there is no hizbollah faction in Iraq & Afghanistan? don't kid yourself.

Look at my avatar there buddy. I LIVED in Lebanon for two years ...
I am well aware of who Hezbollah is... I witnessed the birth of Hezbollah in Lebanon first hand. Try to bullshit someone else about Lebanon and the middle east... but do yourself a big fucking favor and don't try it with me....OK? That's your first warning.

Sir Evil
08-03-2006, 07:54 PM
Look at my avatar there buddy. I LIVED in Lebanon for two years ...
I am well aware of who Hezbollah is... I witnessed the birth of Hezbollah in Lebanon first hand. Try to bullshit someone else about Lebanon and the middle east... but do yourself a big fucking favor and don't try it with me....OK? That's your first warning.

Ok, where be the knee quivering smilie? ya gonna come through the net and kick my ass for my opinion next? Cool, Ima fart on ya when ya get here!

What the hell is your avatar supposed to tell me? Holy mother of god, it's an American flag, I can see how that equates with Lebanon!:shock:

Damn, you witnessed the birth of hizbollah? did the jews eat the afterbirth?

Don't care if ya lived in butt fuc*ed Egypt riding a camel with no name through the deserts of hell, you won't convince me that hizbollah is not a terrorist orginzation in disguise at best, well poorly at that.

So ya been there, done that so the world should listen to the man from Maine eh? Cool, I know there are many with the same opinions but mine is not so I am autoamtically the bad guy? Guess you got me there, you have been there and done it so my opinion does'nt count!:(

maineman
08-03-2006, 08:17 PM
hezbollah is a "terrorist" organization which was started up in Lebanon by shiites impressed with the Iranian shiite theocratic revolution led by Khomeni.

They gained lots of adherents after Israel invaded and occupied Lebanon in '82. they do not share the same goals as AQ.... and we need to recognize that.

the photo, by the way, is of me standing on the top of Cheops at daybreak with Kefron in the background and it was taken by my friend and fellow UN military observer,George Casey who climbed the great pryamid with me one morning in '82 to watch the sunrise.

maineman
08-03-2006, 08:19 PM
and of course your opinion counts. Just don't try to pass off your opinion as fact and we will get along like great pals....some of my best friends in the real world are republicans....but if you look at Oly Snowe or Susan COllins, you gotta know that we grow republicans up here a bit differently than the rest of the country. ;)

Damocles
08-03-2006, 08:20 PM
hezbollah is a "terrorist" organization which was started up in Lebanon by shiites impressed with the Iranian shiite theocratic revolution led by Khomeni.

They gained lots of adherents after Israel invaded and occupied Lebanon in '82. they do not share the same goals as AQ.... and we need to recognize that.

the photo, by the way, is of me standing on the top of Cheops at daybreak with Kefron in the background and it was taken by my friend and fellow UN military observer,George Casey who climbed the great pryamid with me one morning in '82 to watch the sunrise.
I've been to Egypt too, does that prove I was a UN observer?

I'm not saying that you weren't or that I don't believe you, but vacationing in Egypt doesn't prove that you were a UN Observer in Lebanon.

Sir Evil
08-03-2006, 08:24 PM
hezbollah is a "terrorist" organization which was started up in Lebanon by shiites impressed with the Iranian shiite theocratic revolution led by Khomeni.

They gained lots of adherents after Israel invaded and occupied Lebanon in '82. they do not share the same goals as AQ.... and we need to recognize that.

First tell me why I need to recognize this? Then tell me how their views differ on America, the rest is rubbish as it does'nt matter to me.



the photo, by the way, is of me standing on the top of Cheops at daybreak with Kefron in the background and it was taken by my friend and fellow UN military observer,George Casey who climbed the great pryamid with me one morning in '82 to watch the sunrise.

Could'nt see all that in the avatar so my mistake, but damn you are a UN guy all the way eh? Sorry, I think the UN sucks........ALOT!

maineman
08-03-2006, 08:27 PM
I've been to Egypt too, does that prove I was a UN observer?

I'm not saying that you weren't or that I don't believe you, but vacationing in Egypt doesn't prove that you were a UN Observer in Lebanon.

how can any of us PROVE anything. Do you want me to scan my DD 214 and upload it for you?

I was an LCDR, USN on detached duty as an UNMO assigned to USMOG/UNTSO in '81-82. If you want proof, just let me know.

but then I'll need proof that you don't have a cunt.

gonzojournals
08-03-2006, 08:28 PM
Maineman is trying to score some free homo porn.

Damocles
08-03-2006, 08:31 PM
how can any of us PROVE anything. Do you want me to scan my DD 214 and upload it for you?

I was an LCDR, USN on detached duty as an UNMO assigned to USMOG/UNTSO in '81-82. If you want proof, just let me know.

but then I'll need proof that you don't have a cunt.
Like I said, I believe you. However you stated earlier your avatar was "proof"... Well you implied it. "Look at my Avatar, I was a UN Observer... etc."

My point wasn't to say I didn't believe you, just that the picture wasn't proof...

Sorry, I'm sounding more factional than I am tonight. I'm going to have to read my posts twice before posting.

Sir Evil
08-03-2006, 08:32 PM
I was an LCDR, USN on detached duty as an UNMO assigned to USMOG/UNTSO in '81-82. If you want proof, just let me know.



Oh the hostilites! you were really a UNMO? speaking of cunts, why do you think things are a little harder for Israel at the moment? because the worthless UNMO failed to be worthy of anything other than a fart in the wind over there!

maineman
08-03-2006, 08:32 PM
First tell me why I need to recognize this? Then tell me how their views differ on America, the rest is rubbish as it does'nt matter to me.

their scope is more limited. They do not have the global vision that would require striking American targets. they are not the same as the guys who attacked us... and THAT is what matters to ME.



Could'nt see all that in the avatar so my mistake, but damn you are a UN guy all the way eh? Sorry, I think the UN sucks........ALOT!

I loved my time in Lebanon. It gave me insight and perspective...I am not a big fan of the UN and I think that just last week they were totally to blame when the four UNMOs were killed at OP Khiam.... so don't think we are all that far apart on our views of the UN.

gonzojournals
08-03-2006, 08:32 PM
No no no....a guy standing in front of what looks like a picture of a pyramid while holding an American flag is clearly solid evidence.

maineman
08-03-2006, 08:34 PM
Maineman is trying to score some free homo porn.

Should I ignore this douchebag? I asked the 8 ball and it said...."Signs point to yes"

gonzojournals
08-03-2006, 08:35 PM
Should I ignore this douchebag? I asked the 8 ball and it said...."Signs point to yes"
You should definitely ignore that which you cannot beat.

Sir Evil
08-03-2006, 08:40 PM
their scope is more limited. They do not have the global vision that would require striking American targets. they are not the same as the guys who attacked us... and THAT is what matters to ME.


Hmm, did'nt the sheik nezrollah or whatever he is called claim to be reaching into America to strike? sounds like a pretty wide scope to me! Seriously though radical limited or not, they all need to be wasted!




I loved my time in Lebanon. It gave me insight and perspective...I am not a big fan of the UN and I think that just last week they were totally to blame when the four UNMOs were killed at OP Khiam.... so don't think we are all that far apart on our views of the UN.

Culturally learning is cool, never has been a complaint of mine, I feel badly as the next guy for the inncocents killed their but we all know the majority of that blame lies with what you call the government org over there.

maineman
08-03-2006, 08:45 PM
Hezbollah seeks to recreate the Khomeni miracle in Lebanon. Al Qaeda seeks to consume all political subdivisions from the med to the indian ocean and create one large islamic caliphate. their goals are different. Hezbollah does not feel compelled to fly airplanes into american buildings because we have troops near mecca.

ib1yysguy
08-03-2006, 08:53 PM
does everyone else find it as odd as I do that Dixie has yet to appear on this thread and defend his previous rosy scenarios?

Honestly? No. I think if Dixie saw a thread attacking him he'd be more than willing to spin the topic away from the facts until he gets into a pissing match about:

a) Language. I.e. "terrorizing" does or does not make one a "terrorist."

b) Reality (News reports, generals comments, and reality be damned. Saying our troops entered civilian homes in the dead of night is libelous.)

c) Tight jeans.

maineman
08-03-2006, 08:56 PM
roflmfao @ ib1

good to have you on the same side!

Cypress
08-04-2006, 08:20 AM
:shock:

Hmmm 13 years of defiance from Iraq, what ever should of been done? I guess it would be better to be fighting the insurgency here right? Oh I see, had we not invaded Iraq there would never of been any insurgents there right, they just turn on the terrorist mentality depending on the situation?

The entire middle east is littered with the radicals thanks to many years of appeasment from the left wingers that felt they could be ignored!:rolleyes:

you're about 18 months behind on your talking points.

Nobody here besided dixie and toby find your stale talking points justifying your war even remotely credible.

Cypress
08-04-2006, 08:30 AM
:shock:

Hmmm 13 years of defiance from Iraq, what ever should of been done? I guess it would be better to be fighting the insurgency here right? Oh I see, had we not invaded Iraq there would never of been any insurgents there right, they just turn on the terrorist mentality depending on the situation?

The entire middle east is littered with the radicals thanks to many years of appeasment from the left wingers that felt they could be ignored!:rolleyes:


Hmmm 13 years of defiance from Iraq, what ever should of been done? I guess it would be better to be fighting the insurgency here right?

ROTFLMAO!!!!

Priceless!

OrnotBitwise
08-04-2006, 09:50 AM
Superb comeback brother! so how about those 13 years of wasted UN sanctions, how about fighting terrorism abroad as opposed to hear at home, how about attacking my opinion with something with a little more substance?
Actually, those "wasted" sanctions appear to have worked. I think that they were poorly implemented and brought too much suffering on the Iraqi people but they DID eliminate the stockpiles of prohibited weapons.

That's right, Bubbi: the U.N. and not Dubya got rid of Saddam's WMD's.

:BKick:

gonzojournals
08-04-2006, 09:56 AM
Don't be fooled--- the UN doesn't take a breath without our permission.

OrnotBitwise
08-04-2006, 10:00 AM
Don't be fooled--- the UN doesn't take a breath without our permission.
Oh? Then why are the far right wingnuts so dead set against the U.N.? Seems to me they wouldn't hate it so much if your thesis were correct.

gonzojournals
08-04-2006, 10:04 AM
I can't speak for the far right, but anyone with a brain is dead set against the UN because a) the US dominance renders the equality aspect of the UN useless and b) the UN is already useless and inefficient.

OrnotBitwise
08-04-2006, 10:16 AM
I can't speak for the far right, but anyone with a brain is dead set against the UN because a) the US dominance renders the equality aspect of the UN useless and b) the UN is already useless and inefficient.
Wingnut alert. :readit:

maineman
08-04-2006, 10:20 AM
I can't speak for the far right, but anyone with a brain is dead set against the UN because a) the US dominance renders the equality aspect of the UN useless and b) the UN is already useless and inefficient.

The UN is quite effective at some things and ineffective at others. I owuld not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak.

OrnotBitwise
08-04-2006, 10:22 AM
The UN is quite effective at some things and ineffective at others. I owuld not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak.
Just so. Also, I neither expect nor, frankly, want a large supranational organization to be efficient. "Efficiency" is a poor measure for judging the effectiveness of government, at least in most instances.

Jarod
08-04-2006, 10:38 AM
I can't speak for the far right, but anyone with a brain is dead set against the UN because a) the US dominance renders the equality aspect of the UN useless and b) the UN is already useless and inefficient.


The UN does lots of things very well.

Jarod
08-04-2006, 10:42 AM
13 months of defiance, what are you talking about?

Fight them over there instead of here, there is no evidence that fighting them there had done anything but to inflame them.. How has it stoped us from having to fight them here... They were going to come over on ships and fight us? What an idiotic statement...:pke:

Sir Evil
08-04-2006, 11:07 AM
you're about 18 months behind on your talking points.

Nobody here besided dixie and toby find your stale talking points justifying your war even remotely credible.

wow, so I'm surrounded by the whining dems? I guess I should cut & run now while I can eh?

Well your suggestions on how things should of been done would be interesting to hear. Like many of the dems there has been much criticizm but little solution, so lend a helping hand with a post of some sort of substance.

Sir Evil
08-04-2006, 11:10 AM
13 months of defiance, what are you talking about?

Fight them over there instead of here, there is no evidence that fighting them there had done anything but to inflame them.. How has it stoped us from having to fight them here... They were going to come over on ships and fight us? What an idiotic statement...:pke:

"they" who exactly do you assume that we are fighting in Iraq? Oh I see, none of the 911 hijackers were from Iraq so why are we there, why would any kind of radicals be there for that matter?

I already pointed out your first post to me that you should maybe just add something of a little substance, but nothing outside of "Idiotic Statements" I can see how much you have to offer on your side of the discussion..:rolleyes:

OrnotBitwise
08-04-2006, 11:13 AM
"they" who exactly do you assume that we are fighting in Iraq? Oh I see, none of the 911 hijackers were from Iraq so why are we there, why would any kind of radicals be there for that matter?

I already pointed out your first post to me that you should maybe just add something of a little substance, but nothing outside of "Idiotic Statements" I can see how much you have to offer on your side of the discussion..:rolleyes:
The "9/11" terorists were Islamists. The Islamists hated Saddam Hussein even more than we did. His brand of authoritarianism was fundamentally incompatible with theirs.

I wonder, then, why Weed was so hot to take out the Islamist's worst enemy in the middle east?

maineman
08-04-2006, 11:14 AM
wow, so I'm surrounded by the whining dems? I guess I should cut & run now while I can eh?

Well your suggestions on how things should of been done would be interesting to hear. Like many of the dems there has been much criticizm but little solution, so lend a helping hand with a post of some sort of substance.

when your party calls the shots, our ROLE is to illuminate your mistakes. If you had made none, I would not manufacture any just to make a meaningless point. All YOU seem to offer up is "stay the course", and display your ignorance by spouting off long disproven internet hoaxes as reality.

I have offered hundreds of posts of substance on what is wrong about our middle eastern foreign policy and if you care to read them, they are on fullpolitics.com. I have no intention of repeating myself for the benefit of newcomers with sassy attitudes.

Sir Evil
08-04-2006, 11:20 AM
when your party calls the shots, our ROLE is to illuminate your mistakes. If you had made none, I would not manufacture any just to make a meaningless point. All YOU seem to offer up is "stay the course", and display your ignorance by spouting off long disproven internet hoaxes as reality.

Ok mainecoon, wanna copy&paste any post of mine where I mentioned this administration was perfect? that's what I though, ya can't find it. Nah you wanna illuminate whatever possible to make things look peachier from a dems standpoint.

I have offered hundreds of posts of substance on what is wrong about our middle eastern foreign policy and if you care to read them, they are on fullpolitics.com. I have no intention of repeating myself for the benefit of newcomers with sassy attitudes.[/QUOTE]

I don't recall much substance but then again I am new here, but please point out how well the previous dem administrations worked so lovely in the middle east? Honestly I think the dems have a good shot at taking back the house, but if so I am dying to see the tactics used to make it all work. Peace in the middle east is a pipedream no matter how many times you can cuddle up to the bad guys, wine and dine them at the white house, but at the end of the day they still would like you dead.

maineman
08-04-2006, 11:24 AM
but please point out how well the previous dem administrations worked so lovely in the middle east?

ummmm Camp David rings a bell..... Egypt and Israel have normalized diplomatic relations as a result of a democratic president...but then, given your utter ignorance of all things middle eastern, I wouldn't expect you to know that. ;)

And why, pray tell, do you call me "mainecoon"? Are you a cat lover?

Sir Evil
08-04-2006, 11:36 AM
but please point out how well the previous dem administrations worked so lovely in the middle east?

ummmm Camp David rings a bell..... Egypt and Israel have normalized diplomatic relations as a result of a democratic president...but then, given your utter ignorance of all things middle eastern, I wouldn't expect you to know that. ;)

And why, pray tell, do you call me "mainecoon"? Are you a cat lover?

So the relations with some of our middle eastern allies are all due credit to the dems?

And why do I call you a cat? because like a cat you just tend to whine alot but have little bite to back it!:p

OrnotBitwise
08-04-2006, 11:41 AM
So the relations with some of our middle eastern allies are all due credit to the dems?

And why do I call you a cat? because like a cat you just tend to whine alot but have little bite to back it!:p
LOL! Little to back it up? You clearly don't know my cats.

maineman
08-04-2006, 11:41 AM
Look.... you asked this question:

but please point out how well the previous dem administrations worked so lovely in the middle east?

I gave this answer:

ummmm Camp David rings a bell..... Egypt and Israel have normalized diplomatic relations as a result of a democratic president

which was absolutely on point and rather than just acknowledge it, you come back with:
"So the relations with some of our middle eastern allies are all due credit to the dems?"

Where, in my response, did I ever say that? Do you just babble like this all the time?

Sir Evil
08-04-2006, 11:43 AM
LOL! Little to back it up? You clearly don't know my cats.

What kind ya got?

maineman
08-04-2006, 11:43 AM
LOL! Little to back it up? You clearly don't know my cats.

and I tell you what else...he's never met a maine coon cat, it would seem. I just had to put mine down after 19.5 years....and he was the undisputed nasty-ass boss of four other cats and two rather large dogs up until the week before he died.

Sir Evil
08-04-2006, 11:46 AM
I gave this answer:

ummmm Camp David rings a bell..... Egypt and Israel have normalized diplomatic relations as a result of a democratic president

which was absolutely on point and rather than just acknowledge it, you come back with:
"So the relations with some of our middle eastern allies are all due credit to the dems?"

Where, in my response, did I ever say that? Do you just babble like this all the time?

Ok, so you were'nt pointing out that the dems should pat themselves on the back for this. Does this administration have a bad relationship with Israel or Egypt?

What did the dems do to help the peace cause between Israel & the Palestinians? some how I missed that I guess, must of been something the Bush admin did to set this whole thing off.

Sir Evil
08-04-2006, 11:47 AM
and I tell you what else...he's never met a maine coon cat, it would seem. I just had to put mine down after 19.5 years....and he was the undisputed nasty-ass boss of four other cats and two rather large dogs up until the week before he died.

See, you are a man from maine with a maine coon, was I right or what?:cof1:

Dixie - In Memoriam
08-04-2006, 11:48 AM
It's funny how the kiddie diddler will glom onto any statement from a general which seems to support his warped ideology, giving it great credence and legitimacy, yet if it's a statement that completely contradicts what he spews, they are all Bush Butt Buddies who simply have to tow the party line for their boss. It's utterly amazing to watch.

It's also interesting to note, the general specifically said Iraq might or could erupt into a civil war, while the left has been claiming they ARE in a civil war and have been for the past 6 months. The fact is, there is not a civil war in Iraq, there is sectarian violence, fomented by the kiddie diddler's friends Zarqawi and Saddam, with his able assistance, of course!

OrnotBitwise
08-04-2006, 11:49 AM
Send in the clowns . . . .

Sir Evil
08-04-2006, 11:51 AM
Send in the clowns . . . .

Damn that song brings a tear to my eye everytime I hear it!:(

maineman
08-04-2006, 11:51 AM
dems held numerous summits between Israelis and palestinians... the accords between Arafat and Rabin held great promise for success and would have borne fruit if Rabin had not been assassinated. Bush has totally disengaged America from the process and has not held Israel in check in the least....primarily because the Bush team is overwhelmed by Iraq. Have you noticed how laughably ineffective Condi has been these past two weeks? NO ONE takes us seriously in the middle east anymore. We have ZERO credibility and that is ALL because of Bush.

maineman
08-04-2006, 11:52 AM
he's dead now.... so don't bring him up again

maineman
08-04-2006, 11:54 AM
notice.... I mind "mainecoon" a lot less than "kiddie diddler"

and just so you know Evil. I am a normal guy with a wife and kids and have never messed with kids....ever. I would appreciate it if you would remember that.

Sir Evil
08-04-2006, 11:54 AM
dems held numerous summits between Israelis and palestinians... the accords between Arafat and Rabin held great promise for success and would have borne fruit if Rabin had not been assassinated. Bush has totally disengaged America from the process and has not held Israel in check in the least....primarily because the Bush team is overwhelmed by Iraq. Have you noticed how laughably ineffective Condi has been these past two weeks? NO ONE takes us seriously in the middle east anymore. We have ZERO credibility and that is ALL because of Bush.

So in essence it's all the fault of the Bush administration? I guess it was this admin that called for the assasination of Rabin too? I guess Israel should just let your terrorist buddies in Lebanon just continue their rocket bombardments, I guess according to you France has the rigfht idea as well? :rolleyes:

gonzojournals
08-04-2006, 11:54 AM
The "9/11" terorists were Islamists. The Islamists hated Saddam Hussein even more than we did. His brand of authoritarianism was fundamentally incompatible with theirs.


Sunni/Shi'ite (or Shi'a, whichever you hip lefties prefer these days) politics, I'm afraid.

gonzojournals
08-04-2006, 11:55 AM
, I guess according to you France has the rigfht idea as well? :rolleyes:
What, losing every war?

Sir Evil
08-04-2006, 11:56 AM
notice.... I mind "mainecoon" a lot less than "kiddie diddler"

and just so you know Evil. I am a normal guy with a wife and kids and have never messed with kids....ever. I would appreciate it if you would remember that.

See my friend, already you are lost amongst your own babble! when did I say anything about your kids or mentioned the word "kiddie diddler"? you got that moniker elsewhere as this is the first I heard of it.:pke:

Damocles
08-04-2006, 11:57 AM
notice.... I mind "mainecoon" a lot less than "kiddie diddler"

and just so you know Evil. I am a normal guy with a wife and kids and have never messed with kids....ever. I would appreciate it if you would remember that.
**For everyone***

I would also prefer that any references to children and sex acts be removed from this board in the future. This kind of action and words leads people down the wrong road.

gonzojournals
08-04-2006, 11:59 AM
he's never met a maine coon cat.
Another racist holyroller! Ah! Don't you know that coon is just as offensive as tar baby?

Clearly the context of your statement should have nothing to do with the word choice.


Nazi.

Sir Evil
08-04-2006, 11:59 AM
What, losing every war?

lol, exactly!

maineman
08-04-2006, 12:00 PM
So in essence it's all the fault of the Bush administration? I guess it was this admin that called for the assasination of Rabin too? I guess Israel should just let your terrorist buddies in Lebanon just continue their rocket bombardments, I guess according to you France has the rigfht idea as well? :rolleyes:

NO...it is essentially the fault of the Israelis and the arabs.... Bush has just effectively abdicated our role as a non-partisan broker for peace.... and the terrorists are not my buddies, and I would appreciate it if you would remember that fact going forward. And I would try really hard if I were you to elimintate stupid shit like: "I guess it was this admin that called for the assasination of Rabin too?" from your arguments. such rants only proove that you are seemingly unaware that rabin was assassinated in '95 and Bush did not take office until '01. I do not think that Israel should let Hezbollah continue to waste oxygen in any area of Lebanon.... YOu don't know me well enough so I will let that slide..I am extremely pro-israeli.

gonzojournals
08-04-2006, 12:01 PM
France's clearly genius strategy.

gonzojournals
08-04-2006, 12:02 PM
I am extremely pro-israeli.
Why? Do they pay you in Gefilte fish?

maineman
08-04-2006, 12:03 PM
**For everyone***

I would also prefer that any references to children and sex acts be removed from this board in the future. This kind of action and words leads people down the wrong road.

thank you damo...and Evil...I know that you never called me that...it was that guy Dixie...who really thinks a lot of the same things as you do, but he really is more like your retarded brother with tourette's syndrome.

Dixie - In Memoriam
08-04-2006, 12:04 PM
Sorry Damo, I shouldn't have stated that maineman is a 'kiddie diddler', I really have no way of knowing if he's ever actually committed pedophilia on a child, I can only go by what he posted about raping my minor daughter at gunpoint, on the other board. That was definitely a predatory behavior directed at a child in a public forum. Even though, he had his Mel Gibson moment the next day, and claimed it was the booze talking, I have to consider what he had to say regarding my child, and I think any parent is so justified.

maineman
08-04-2006, 12:05 PM
Why? Do they pay you in Gefilte fish?

don't quit your day job..... trust me: your attempts at humor are not humorous...

gonzojournals
08-04-2006, 12:05 PM
Dixie, rest assured that I will wait til your daughter is the legal age to be diddled.

gonzojournals
08-04-2006, 12:06 PM
don't quit your day job..... trust me: your attempts at humor are not humorous...
I just find it fascinating when people are pro-Israel, because it is one of the most parasitic relationships in global history....they provide us with nothing but grief in return for our "love".

Wake up.

Sir Evil
08-04-2006, 12:08 PM
And I would try really hard if I were you to elimintate stupid shit like: "I guess it was this admin that called for the assasination of Rabin too?" from your arguments. such rants only proove that you are seemingly unaware that rabin was assassinated in '95 and Bush did not take office until '01. I do not think that Israel should let Hezbollah continue to waste oxygen in any area of Lebanon.... YOu don't know me well enough so I will let that slide..I am extremely pro-israeli.

I guess I do need to try harder as I can't seem to see what else you are trying to say with your posts. I can clearly see that the dems have all the answers, and are better at making the peace a lasting thing according to you.

Damocles
08-04-2006, 12:09 PM
Sorry Damo, I shouldn't have stated that maineman is a 'kiddie diddler', I really have no way of knowing if he's ever actually committed pedophilia on a child, I can only go by what he posted about raping my minor daughter at gunpoint, on the other board. That was definitely a predatory behavior directed at a child in a public forum. Even though, he had his Mel Gibson moment the next day, and claimed it was the booze talking, I have to consider what he had to say regarding my child, and I think any parent is so justified.
Right, I don't want such references to follow us over here. They did not improve the conversation, nor will they here.

gonzojournals
08-04-2006, 12:10 PM
Dixie and maineman should make a suicide pact--- that would greatly improve this world.

Sir Evil
08-04-2006, 12:11 PM
thank you damo...and Evil...I know that you never called me that...it was that guy Dixie...who really thinks a lot of the same things as you do, but he really is more like your retarded brother with tourette's syndrome.

Well now, you associated me with the comment first, now the poster but I am expected to think that you make some sort of sense? Damn second day on the board and already I am related to one of the members?:eek:
Well your a dem so it must be so.......:p

maineman
08-04-2006, 12:11 PM
Dixie, rest assured that I will wait til your daughter is the legal age to be diddled.

she's gotta be legal or Dixie's gotta be a liar.... he claimed that she was out of his life for 15 years..and then nearly three years ago, he posts her pictures on his dating webpage -replete with the smarmy glamour shot photo of him that my wife laughed her ass off looking at - and claimed that after this supposed fifteen year separation, his daughter found him...they reunited... and she wrote a poem about it that is nearly three years old now.... what the fuck? did she leave his life before she was born? how the fuck can a guy have a daughter...have her leave his life sometime later.... stay gone for 15 years after that...then hook back up...get to know one another...have her write a love poem about the reunion... then have three years pass...and still she's a MINOR? What a joke.

Dixie - In Memoriam
08-04-2006, 12:12 PM
I just find it fascinating when people are pro-Israel, because it is one of the most parasitic relationships in global history....they provide us with nothing but grief in return for our "love".

Wake up.

Yeah! Wake Up! Become an anti-Semitic Jew hater like gonzo! The sooner we all agree that Israel IS the problem and exterminate the Jews from the planet, the better off we will ALL be!

...It's interesting, people like Gonzo can spew this shit all day, and be dead serious and stone sober, and never get a bit of criticism... but let Mel say something while he's drunk, and he's toast! Damn hypocrites!

Damocles
08-04-2006, 12:12 PM
Well now, you associated me with the comment first, now the poster but I am expected to think that you make some sort of sense? Damn second day on the board and already I am related to one of the members?:eek:
Well your a dem so it must be so.......:p
Don't you feel peace now that you have admitted this?

maineman
08-04-2006, 12:13 PM
Well now, you associated me with the comment first, now the poster but I am expected to think that you make some sort of sense? Damn second day on the board and already I am related to one of the members?:eek:
Well your a dem so it must be so.......:p

I assumed you'd read Dixie's insult...but if you didn't...even better!:p

gonzojournals
08-04-2006, 12:13 PM
Yeah! Wake Up! Become an anti-Semitic Jew hater like gonzo! The sooner we all agree that Israel IS the problem and exterminate the Jews from the planet, the better off we will ALL be!

...It's interesting, people like Gonzo can spew this shit all day, and be dead serious and stone sober, and never get a bit of criticism... but let Mel say something while he's drunk, and he's toast! Damn hypocrites!
Your problem is that your brain is too small to distinguish between Israelis and Jews. It is like saying that you are immediately anti-Christian if you are anti-American and vice versa. Stop being so stupid.

Sir Evil
08-04-2006, 12:14 PM
Don't you feel peace now that you have admitted this?

Oh I do brother, I think Ima gonna put a dish towel on my head now and go to Maine! :cof1:

OrnotBitwise
08-04-2006, 12:15 PM
Don't you feel peace now that you have admitted this?
Admitting you have a problem is the First Step . . . .

gonzojournals
08-04-2006, 12:15 PM
Careful, you might get suspended.

maineman
08-04-2006, 12:17 PM
Oh I do brother, I think Ima gonna put a dish towel on my head now and go to Maine! :cof1:

do you like lobster? I know a lobsterman who can get me as many as I need right off his boat.... come on up, dish towel not required, and we'll feast.

gonzojournals
08-04-2006, 12:17 PM
Am I invited?

Sir Evil
08-04-2006, 12:19 PM
do you like lobster? I know a lobsterman who can get me as many as I need right off his boat.... come on up, dish towel not required, and we'll feast.

Damn, love lobster! see we found some middle ground now, but I'll bring the dish towel for cleaning up after chow! :p :clink:

maineman
08-04-2006, 12:21 PM
Am I invited?

no.... you are nearly as inanely insulting as dixie ;)

gonzojournals
08-04-2006, 12:21 PM
Your problem is that your brain is too small to distinguish between Israelis and Jews. It is like saying that you are immediately anti-Christian if you are anti-American and vice versa. Stop being so stupid.
No comment, Dicksie?

Damocles
08-04-2006, 12:22 PM
It's called a "napkin" up there, SE...

gonzojournals
08-04-2006, 12:22 PM
no.... you are nearly as inanely insulting as dixie ;)
Oh, ok. I'll just have lobster with Stephen King....he's a way better maineman anyway. lol :p

maineman
08-04-2006, 12:24 PM
Oh, ok. I'll just have lobster with Stephen King....he's a way better maineman anyway. lol :p

maybeyou can write an article about him...and the cool baseball field he built for Bangor Little League

Sir Evil
08-04-2006, 12:24 PM
no.... you are nearly as inanely insulting as dixie ;)

Can't we all just get along?:(

Seriouslt though, I think the difference between us would be that I would be for any administration if they were taking the actions that this one has. I am not 100 % behind all of their decisions and I think someone who tells ya that any admin has done things perfectly are full of shit! Had this been a dem admin running the show this way I would be supportive, If they do a better job in office fighting terrorism Im with them. I think most dems are vehemently against this administration regardless of what they do.

gonzojournals
08-04-2006, 12:25 PM
Did he now? A cripple and a philanthropist....what a combination!

I doubt I could meet with him, he's pretty private.

maineman
08-04-2006, 12:28 PM
He watches ballgames all the time...and I know where his favorite bar and his favorite restaurant are!

OrnotBitwise
08-04-2006, 12:29 PM
Your problem is that your brain is too small to distinguish between Israelis and Jews. It is like saying that you are immediately anti-Christian if you are anti-American and vice versa. Stop being so stupid.
:stup: I really hate it when I have to agree with gonzo . . . .

BTW -- If there were such things as Bitwise points you'd have just scored about a half dozen, just for having Dixie's "Pinhead Quote of the Moment" honors. Good thing there aren't, I suppose.

Jarod
08-04-2006, 12:30 PM
"they" who exactly do you assume that we are fighting in Iraq? Oh I see, none of the 911 hijackers were from Iraq so why are we there, why would any kind of radicals be there for that matter?

I already pointed out your first post to me that you should maybe just add something of a little substance, but nothing outside of "Idiotic Statements" I can see how much you have to offer on your side of the discussion..:rolleyes:



Your "they" not mine, I was using that word from your claim that because we are fighting "them" in Iraq we are not fighting "them" here!


You answer your own question, who is this "they"?

OrnotBitwise
08-04-2006, 12:33 PM
Your "they" not mine, I was using that word from your claim that because we are fighting "them" in Iraq we are not fighting "them" here!


You answer your own question, who is this "they"?
An excellent question. Just who is it we're supposed to be fighting in Iraq (now) anyway?

Sir Evil
08-04-2006, 12:36 PM
Your "they" not mine, I was using that word from your claim that because we are fighting "them" in Iraq we are not fighting "them" here!


You answer your own question, who is this "they"?

Ok, "they" to me, and maybe not to you are all radicals looking to kill Americans and Jews worldwide wherever whenever possible. Do I think Iraqi leader then saddam was harboring these kinds of people? Yes I do. Do I think saddam would pay the families of suicide bombers? that's already a fact. Do I think saddam would of paid families of suicide bombers to come to America and kill themselves? sure do!

Ok, so no smoking gun was found in Iraq, and even if they were it would not make this admin any more credible in your eyes. saddam was a tyranical leader not unlike the lunatic over in iran now. None of them are interested in peace if it does'nt include their perverted views of islam...

Jarod
08-04-2006, 12:40 PM
Ok, "they" to me, and maybe not to you are all radicals looking to kill Americans and Jews worldwide wherever whenever possible. Do I think Iraqi leader then saddam was harboring these kinds of people? Yes I do. Do I think saddam would pay the families of suicide bombers? that's already a fact. Do I think saddam would of paid families of suicide bombers to come to America and kill themselves? sure do!

Ok, so no smoking gun was found in Iraq, and even if they were it would not make this admin any more credible in your eyes. saddam was a tyranical leader not unlike the lunatic over in iran now. None of them are interested in peace if it does'nt include their perverted views of islam...


So getting Saddam, who was contained in his little box in a far corner of the world was the best way to spend the enormous resources Iraq cost us? Id a rather spend it getting someone who achually has demonstrated an ability to get us... like maybe OBL...!

gonzojournals
08-04-2006, 01:07 PM
:stup: I really hate it when I have to agree with gonzo . . . .

BTW -- If there were such things as Bitwise points you'd have just scored about a half dozen, just for having Dixie's "Pinhead Quote of the Moment" honors. Good thing there aren't, I suppose.
Well you would have gotten Gonzo points (if they existed) for being an individual capable of distinguishing between religious intolerance and intolerance for an irresponsible terrorist state.

maineman
08-04-2006, 01:13 PM
So getting Saddam, who was contained in his little box in a far corner of the world was the best way to spend the enormous resources Iraq cost us? Id a rather spend it getting someone who achually has demonstrated an ability to get us... like maybe OBL...!

bingo.... the world has lots of assholes... I think we should first set out to take care of the guys who attacked us and not waste thousands of american lives, billions of american dollars and untold goodwill from around the world taking care of a guy who had NOTHING to do with the assholes who attacked us and spending next to nothing on the guys who did.

maineman
08-04-2006, 01:16 PM
Can't we all just get along?:(

Seriouslt though, I think the difference between us would be that I would be for any administration if they were taking the actions that this one has. I am not 100 % behind all of their decisions and I think someone who tells ya that any admin has done things perfectly are full of shit! Had this been a dem admin running the show this way I would be supportive, If they do a better job in office fighting terrorism Im with them. I think most dems are vehemently against this administration regardless of what they do.

and please realize that I am against the actions taken in Iraq because I think they are terribly ill advised and counter-productive. I am not against them simply because a republican did them...if Clinton had done this, I would be furious with him as well.

maineman
08-04-2006, 01:19 PM
she's gotta be legal or Dixie's gotta be a liar.... he claimed that she was out of his life for 15 years..and then nearly three years ago, he posts her pictures on his dating webpage -replete with the smarmy glamour shot photo of him that my wife laughed her ass off looking at - and claimed that after this supposed fifteen year separation, his daughter found him...they reunited... and she wrote a poem about it that is nearly three years old now.... what the fuck? did she leave his life before she was born? how the fuck can a guy have a daughter...have her leave his life sometime later.... stay gone for 15 years after that...then hook back up...get to know one another...have her write a love poem about the reunion... then have three years pass...and still she's a MINOR? What a joke.

maybe Dixie is considering her mental age. Hell...in that instance, HE is a minor!

Cypress
08-04-2006, 01:54 PM
I love the well-worn canard that Dems are only against the iraq war, because a republican is president.

LOL

Who was in the streets protesting democrat LBJ's vietnam war? College republicans? LOL It was liberals, progressives and democrats protesting LBJs war.

And democratic voters wanted to get the hell out of somalia as fast as everyone else, as soon as clinton blundered us into an insurgency there.

Dixie - In Memoriam
08-04-2006, 02:23 PM
I love the well-worn canard that Dems are only against the iraq war, because a republican is president.

LOL

Who was in the streets protesting democrat LBJ's vietnam war? College republicans? LOL It was liberals, progressives and democrats protesting LBJs war.

And democratic voters wanted to get the hell out of somalia as fast as everyone else, as soon as clinton blundered us into an insurgency there.

Yeah, you liberals pretty much have a 'head in the sand' policy throughout history... nothing new there!

Cypress
08-04-2006, 02:39 PM
Yeah, you liberals pretty much have a 'head in the sand' policy throughout history... nothing new there!


Yeah, that FDR, Truman, and JFK never stood up to fascists, imperialists, and communists.

Dixie - In Memoriam
08-04-2006, 02:48 PM
Yeah, that FDR, Truman, and JFK never stood up to fascists, imperialists, and communists.

Unfortunately, the last true FDR, Truman, or JFK-like democrat is trailing his opponent by 13 points in Conn.

Sir Evil
08-04-2006, 04:50 PM
I love the well-worn canard that Dems are only against the iraq war, because a republican is president.



Yeah, we never hear any old rhetoric coming from the mouths of the dems.
Howard Dean? nuff said....

maineman
08-04-2006, 08:49 PM
Yeah, we never hear any old rhetoric coming from the mouths of the dems.
Howard Dean? nuff said....

why is that "nuff"???? YOu haven't said shit. We are against the Iraq war because it is stupid. If Al Gore had started this stupid ass war, I would have expected a primary challenge from some Democrat in '04... and I would have worked on that democrat's primary campaign to unseat President Gore because he would have proven his stupidity by attacking a country that had never attacked us and had, in fact, stood as an effective foil against Iranian hegemony which we can now witness in Lebanon.

zoombwaz
08-06-2006, 06:44 AM
what are the religious differences between the sunni and shiites? do you know offhand damo?

also, aren't hezbollah, shiites? aren't iranians? what were we thinking, longterm, when we planned to put the shiites in power....knowing they were the same tribe as the iranians? or were ''they'' not thinking?

didn't the cia back in the late 50's/60's help saddam rise to power to fight off the shiite control?

aren't all shiites really persians and not arabs? iran is primarily the old persia, right?


i saw parts a history channel special on the rise of the Bath party and then saddam, and the middle east in general the other night and though i missed a great deal of it, i can honestly say that the middle east is a mess right now.....because of the BRITS! it is anyold's ancestor's fault! ;)

I have read in several sources that up until January 2003, just prior to the invasion, Bush had no idea that there were different Islamic sects. Peter Galbraith, a former diplomat, brought three Iraqi opposition members to watch the Super Bowl with Bush. Galbraith said, "In the course of the conversation the Iraqis realized that the President was not aware that there was a difference between Sunni and Shiite Muslims. He looked at them and said, "You mean...they're not, you know, there, there's this difference. What is it about?"

The invasion had already been planned, was going to be launched in 8 weeks, and the commander-in-chief, who had wanted to invade Iraq since before he was inaugurated, had no clue who or what he was invading. There is nothing more dangerous than placing an arrogant, vindictive. narcisistic ignoramus like Bush in a position of great power. The result is exactly what we see here: an incipient civil war. We need to get our soldiers and Marines the hell out of there before the violence escalates any further and overwhelms our forces.

A note for those morons who like to toss terms like "cut and run" and "retreat", and "surrender" around: practically the first thing Dwight D. Eisenhower did upon taking office was to get our forces the hell out of Korea. Nixon was elected on a platform that included getting us out of Vietnam. Did they cut and run?

maineman
08-06-2006, 08:15 AM
great points zoom!

Cypress
08-06-2006, 09:19 AM
Yeah, we never hear any old rhetoric coming from the mouths of the dems.
Howard Dean? nuff said....


Who said anything about "rhetoric"?

YOu said dems are againt the iraq war simply because an R is president. I just proved you wrong - that Dems were against the vietnam war and in favor of withdrawing from somalia, when D's were prez - and you "suddenly" changed the subject.

I wonder why?

Dixie - In Memoriam
08-06-2006, 10:25 AM
I have read in several sources that up until January 2003, just prior to the invasion, Bush had no idea that there were different Islamic sects.

I have read in several sources, that Bush and the Neocons brought down the World Trade Centers on 9/11. Seems to me, someone smart enough to pull that off, couldn't possibly be that stupid.

For us to assume this idiocy to be true, we have to also assume that Bush's dad never had any conversations with his son about Iraq, and all the people around the president, like Condi Rice and Colin Powell, also didn't know about the different Islamic sects. Since Bush was elected prior to 9/11, when Saddam was our leading nemisis, it just seems odd that he was never fully breifed by anyone in the State Department, or that the subject of different sects never came up. ...I guess they were all too busy planning on how to dupe the media and the world on 9/11?

Dixie - In Memoriam
08-06-2006, 10:31 AM
I just proved you wrong - that Dems were against the vietnam war and in favor of withdrawing from somalia, when D's were prez - and you "suddenly" changed the subject.

No, Democrats actually supported vietnam and somolia, as well as kosovo and bosnia, they were sitting in the oval office when they approved the actions. You proved Liberal pinheads were opposed to these conflicts, but we already knew that, Liberals oppose all war. You also demonstrated exactly why the Democratic Party is going nowhere fast, and can't be trusted to lead the country in such perilous times.

Cypress
08-06-2006, 12:01 PM
I just proved you wrong - that Dems were against the vietnam war and in favor of withdrawing from somalia, when D's were prez - and you "suddenly" changed the subject.

No, Democrats actually supported vietnam and somolia, as well as kosovo and bosnia, they were sitting in the oval office when they approved the actions. You proved Liberal pinheads were opposed to these conflicts, but we already knew that, Liberals oppose all war. You also demonstrated exactly why the Democratic Party is going nowhere fast, and can't be trusted to lead the country in such perilous times.

Dixie: who was protesting in the streets against LBJ's vietnam war? College republican clubs? LOL

Dixie - In Memoriam
08-06-2006, 12:40 PM
Dixie: who was protesting in the streets against LBJ's vietnam war? College republican clubs? LOL

Nope, I believe it was pinhead liberal idiots like yourself! You were also the same ones who spat on troops returning, and are now protesting at funeral services of dead veterans. LBJ was a Democrat, dufus!

Damocles
08-06-2006, 12:57 PM
Dixie: who was protesting in the streets against LBJ's vietnam war? College republican clubs? LOL

Nope, I believe it was pinhead liberal idiots like yourself! You were also the same ones who spat on troops returning, and are now protesting at funeral services of dead veterans. LBJ was a Democrat, dufus!
The ones protesting at funerals are the godhatesfags.com crowd, not liberal just insane.

maineman
08-06-2006, 01:00 PM
the point being that the democrats do not just oppose stupid wars started by republicans.... they will oppose stupid wars started by democrats as well.... and they will mount primary battles against democratic senators who do NOT oppose stupid wars.

dufus.

Cypress
08-06-2006, 01:28 PM
Dixie: who was protesting in the streets against LBJ's vietnam war? College republican clubs? LOL

Nope, I believe it was pinhead liberal idiots like yourself! You were also the same ones who spat on troops returning, and are now protesting at funeral services of dead veterans. LBJ was a Democrat, dufus!

I think we can log that as the quickest flip flop on record.

Yes, dixie, it was liberals who held LBJ acccountable for the vietnam war. We hold presidents who fuck up - even ones with D's next to their name - accoutable, unlike you.

Cypress
08-06-2006, 01:31 PM
the point being that the democrats do not just oppose stupid wars started by republicans.... they will oppose stupid wars started by democrats as well.... and they will mount primary battles against democratic senators who do NOT oppose stupid wars.

dufus.

LBJ and Carter both were either challenged, or abandoned, by many democrats for major foreign policy fuckups.

Micawber
06-27-2017, 06:09 PM
Of course, its the ever-evolving spin from the white house.

The root cause of the problem remains the same: Bush's incompetence.

The good old days!