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cancel2 2022
12-20-2009, 10:41 AM
As William Felt aka Deep Throat said about Nixon and Watergate, you should always follow the money. So applying this principle to Copenhagen it can be seen why so many big businesses and banks were represented there. They needed to renew parts of the Kyoto Treaty which dealt with carbon trading as these are due to expire in 2012. This looks set to take over from derivatives and securisation as yet another way to make money out of nothing.

RICHARD D. NORTH: Saved - the trillion-pound trade in carbon



By Richard D. North, Political Analyst (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=y&authornamef=Richard+D.+North,+Political+Analyst)
Last updated at 1:48 AM on 20th December 2009


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http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/12/19/article-1237235-015BAEB600001005-174_87x84.jpg
The city of Copenhagen 'is a crime scene tonight, with the guilty men and women fleeing to the airport'. So said John Sauven of Greenpeace UK after the climate summit broke up. And he is right.

This is the biggest heist in history. As they poured carbon over snow-covered Denmark from their gas-guzzling jets, world leaders were congratulating themselves on securing a deal which will make their backers and financiers a trillion pounds a year. These riches will come from buying and selling permits, the so-called 'carbon credits' which allow industry and electricity generators in developed countries to emit carbon dioxide.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/12/19/article-1237235-07A73244000005DC-216_468x286.jpg

Hot air: Demonstrators protest against climate deal in Copenhagen

Forget 'Big Oil' - this is 'Big Carbon' making the most of a 'business opportunity' that was created by the first climate treaty at Kyoto in 1997.

The frenzied negotiations we have just seen were never about 'saving the planet'. They were always about money. At stake was this new 'climate change industry' which last year ripped off £129billion from the global economy and is heading for that trillion-pound bonanza by 2020 - but only if the key parts of the Kyoto treaty could be renewed.


With the treaty due to expire by 2012, unless it was replaced, the money tree would fail. Hence, all the power and vested interests of big business were brought into play, stoking up the panic over climate change to create an atmosphere where the parties could keep the money flowing.

Carbon Trading is barely 13 years old yet the scale of the industry is astonishing. Overall control lies with an obscure committee created by Kyoto, The Clean Development Mechanism Executive. It issues firms with the 'golden tickets' known as Certified Emission Reductions (CERs).

At Kyoto, Western governments set targets to cut emissions. In order to achieve this, they set 'caps' on the amount of CO2 a company can produce.

However, if they go over these limits, they may buy permits from firms who have not used up their quotas.

The developing world is not subject to the same caps as the West so they can generate CERs which are then traded by banks.

The actual emissions don't change, it's merely a matter of how much you have to pay for them. For example, in 2006, the NHS spent £6million on carbon permits to keep patients warm.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/12/19/article-1237235-07A780B7000005DC-338_468x376.jpg

Cheers: Energy Minister Ed Miliband, right, applauds with other delegates as the Copenhagen accord is adopted

This was the real business in Copenhagen last week. The game was given away by the head of carbon markets for Merrill Lynch, Abyd Karmali - who is also president of the Carbon Markets and Investors Association.


As campaigners worried about the prospect of the talks failing, Karmali was happily explaining that the envoys would probably decide to extend the 'Kyoto Protocol' even if they could not reach an agreement on emission cuts. And it is those words which revealed what was really going on.

The carbon permits come mainly from rich industrialists in the Third World and state enterprises in China, created out of mythical savings in carbon emissions.

This is precisely what is happening in the west-India state of Gujarat, where the giant Tata conglomerate - which is closing down the Corus steel works in Redcar - is building a giant new coal-fired power plant.

It is four times the size of the proposed Kingsnorth power station in Kent, to which the Greens so violently objected.

Tata's new plant, which is the same design as Kingsnorth, will increase India's carbon emissions by 643million tons over its lifetime, and produce in a year CO2 equivalent to an eighth of the entire UK electricity industry.

Yet because it is more efficient than conventional plants, it is deemed to reduce the average carbon emissions of India's electricity generation system per unit of electricity supplied.

By this convoluted reasoning, not only does it qualify for cheap, green development loans from the World Bank and the Asian Development Bank, it will be given over £500million in free carbon credits by the UN to be sold, via brokers and financiers who all take their cuts. They will be bought by the likes of British electricity generators.

That is but one example of the insane system created by the Kyoto treaty, which was renewed in Copenhagen last week.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1237235/ANALYSIS-Saved--trillion-pound-trade-carbon.html#ixzz0aFQMU3BW

evince
12-20-2009, 11:03 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_D._North

Follow the money indeed , this is written by some con who gets money to attack science

meme
12-20-2009, 11:12 AM
So SCIENCE is now the NEW AGE GOD for lefties..and Al Gore is the global warming Messiah..

we've been saying all along FOLLOW THE MONEY..

evince
12-20-2009, 11:21 AM
No science is the best information at the time.

Gods are myths

evince
12-20-2009, 11:22 AM
so you both think that the people who own our current energy system are powerless?

cancel2 2022
12-20-2009, 11:38 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_D._North

Follow the money indeed , this is written by some con who gets money to attack science


You might have noticed that he used to be the environmental correspondent for the Independent, a UK left of centre newspaper. If you disagree then tell me how the carbon credit scheme is anyone other than another scam by big business, as a left of centre poster I would have thought you'd be against this global ripoff in the making.

cancel2 2022
12-20-2009, 11:41 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_D._North

Follow the money indeed , this is written by some con who gets money to attack science

Perhaps you would be happier hearing the same message from Rolling Stone?


http://business.theatlantic.com/2009/06/is_goldman_sachs_the_root_of_all_evil.php

evince
12-20-2009, 11:49 AM
and no science degree that I can find

evince
12-20-2009, 11:50 AM
Perhaps you would be happier hearing the same message from Rolling Stone?


http://business.theatlantic.com/2009/06/is_goldman_sachs_the_root_of_all_evil.php

Is Goldman Sachs the Root of All Evil?

cancel2 2022
12-20-2009, 11:59 AM
Is Goldman Sachs the Root of All Evil?

Yes, more or less as they have been behind just about every speculative bubble in history.

http://www.rollingstone.com/videos/player/28915225

cancel2 2022
12-20-2009, 12:06 PM
and no science degree that I can find

What science? I am talking about another almighty scam being perpetrated which may even dwarf the current crisis in the future.

meme
12-20-2009, 12:07 PM
it seems the left is only against BIG BUSINESS when it involves a Republican..

cancel2 2022
12-20-2009, 12:12 PM
it seems the left is only against BIG BUSINESS when it involves a Republican..

I very much doubt that there are many Democrats at Goldman Sachs.

meme
12-20-2009, 12:15 PM
Science has now become a TOOL to EXTORT monies and to be used as a bludgeon against people to CHANGE THEIR LIFESTYLES..the commies used it just the same they used eco fascism..

all you need to look at now is the Progressive-Democrat party is adopting the same practices..

cancel2 2022
12-20-2009, 12:17 PM
Science has now become a TOOL to EXTORT monies and to be used as a bludgeon against people to CHANGE THEIR LIFESTYLES..the commies used it just the same they used eco fascism..

all you need to look at now is the Progressive-Democrat party is adopting the same practices..


So Goldman Sachs are a bunch of commies?

cawacko
12-20-2009, 12:18 PM
I very much doubt that there are many Democrats at Goldman Sachs.

Believe it or not there are actually quite a few. Remember Wall St gave more money this election cycle to Obama than they did McCain. Dave Corzine the former Senator and Governor of New Jersey was a recent Goldman CEO. Robert Rubin the Clinton Treasury Secretary ran Goldman. And Goldman's current CEO Loyd Blankfein is a Democrat.

meme
12-20-2009, 12:19 PM
I very much doubt that there are many Democrats at Goldman Sachs.

Oh my, FER SURE..:palm:

cancel2 2022
12-20-2009, 12:22 PM
Believe it or not there are actually quite a few. Remember Wall St gave more money this election cycle to Obama than they did McCain. Dave Corzine the former Senator and Governor of New Jersey was a recent Goldman CEO. Robert Rubin the Clinton Treasury Secretary ran Goldman. And Goldman's current CEO Loyd Blankfein is a Democrat.

I suspect they hitch their wagon to whoever can help them the most, I doubt that the majority in GS are dyed in the wool democrats or indeed Democrats.

meme
12-20-2009, 12:26 PM
I suspect they hitch their wagon to whoever can help them the most, I doubt that the majority in GS are dyed in the wool democrats or indeed Democrats.

why? it would burst the bubble you have of what a Democrat is..
they have some of you all snookered so well..

cawacko
12-20-2009, 12:30 PM
I suspect they hitch their wagon to whoever can help them the most, I doubt that the majority in GS are dyed in the wool democrats or indeed Democrats.

Well considering they worked in Demcratic administrations seems to indicate them being true Democrats. A lot of Democrats are rich so the idea that they are rich capitalists precludes them from being true Democrats doesn't really fly.

tinfoil
12-20-2009, 12:41 PM
No science is the best information at the time.

the trouble is we have the evidnece the science was not the best information.

which part of that don't you understand?

LOL you idiot

cancel2 2022
12-20-2009, 12:43 PM
Well considering they worked in Demcratic administrations seems to indicate them being true Democrats. A lot of Democrats are rich so the idea that they are rich capitalists precludes them from being true Democrats doesn't really fly.


Well, I guess I have it all wrong then and Goldman Sachs isn't a predatory behemoth that wishes to eventually have its tentacles into all of government be it Democrat or Republican but a benevolent organisation working only for the greater good of man. I would have also mentioned Lehman Brothers but they are sadly no longer with us and the kind chaps at Goldman came to the rescue and scooped up their business. By the way, I have every few allusions that the Democrats are that much better than Republicans when it comes to big money, they are all Americans after all.

cawacko
12-20-2009, 12:51 PM
Well, I guess I have it all wrong then and Goldman Sachs isn't a predatory behemoth that wishes to eventually have its tentacles into all of government be it Democrat or Republican but a benevolent organisation working only for the greater good of man. I would have also mentioned Lehman Brothers but they are sadly no longer with us and the kind chaps at Goldman came to the rescue and scooped up their business. By the way, I have every few allusions that the Democrats are that much better than Republicans when it comes to big money, they are all Americans after all.

I didn't say anything about Goldman Sachs the company. I simply responded to the idea that there aren't Democrats at Goldman.

meme
12-20-2009, 12:52 PM
My my, they are ALL AMERCIANS after all..

I guess we should all be "equally poor" like the little peons in England are...at least there Government MASTERS are RICH..

cancel2 2022
12-20-2009, 12:58 PM
I didn't say anything about Goldman Sachs the company. I simply responded to the idea that there aren't Democrats at Goldman.

Come on, you know that I like you but I never said there are no Democrats just I doubt there are very many. I could be wrong of course.

cawacko
12-20-2009, 01:04 PM
Come on, you know that I like you but I never said there are no Democrats just I doubt there are very many. I could be wrong of course.

No I know. My initial reaction would be that Wall St is full of Republicans too. The reality though is there are a lot of Democrats. A lot of Democrats are capitalists who want money and success just as much as the Republican next to them. Remember I live in San Francisco which is home to a lot of rich Democrats. :)

cancel2 2022
12-20-2009, 01:13 PM
No I know. My initial reaction would be that Wall St is full of Republicans too. The reality though is there are a lot of Democrats. A lot of Democrats are capitalists who want money and success just as much as the Republican next to them. Remember I live in San Francisco which is home to a lot of rich Democrats. :)

Well, my contention is that Goldman Sachs is a pernicious avaricious monster who are primarily interested in controlling the levers of power and will do whatever is needed to achieve its aims. How that squares with being a Democrat who believes in justice and fairness is beyond me but maybe it is part of the Clinton philosophy of compartmentalisation. Maybe they all want to get filthy stinking rich first and then pay for their sins with acts of altruism when they have finished shafting the world's economy.

cancel2 2022
12-20-2009, 01:23 PM
I didn't say anything about Goldman Sachs the company. I simply responded to the idea that there aren't Democrats at Goldman.

Returning to the original topic, what are your thoughts on carbon trading?

FUCK THE POLICE
12-20-2009, 03:27 PM
As William Felt aka Deep Throat said about Nixon and Watergate, you should always follow the money. So applying this principle to Copenhagen it can be seen why so many big businesses and banks were represented there. They needed to renew parts of the Kyoto Treaty which dealt with carbon trading as these are due to expire in 2012. This looks set to take over from derivatives and securisation as yet another way to make money out of nothing.

RICHARD D. NORTH: Saved - the trillion-pound trade in carbon



By Richard D. North, Political Analyst (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=y&authornamef=Richard+D.+North,+Political+Analyst)
Last updated at 1:48 AM on 20th December 2009


Comments (0) (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1237235/ANALYSIS-Saved--trillion-pound-trade-carbon.html#comments)
Add to My Stories (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1237235/ANALYSIS-Saved--trillion-pound-trade-carbon.html)




http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/12/19/article-1237235-015BAEB600001005-174_87x84.jpg
The city of Copenhagen 'is a crime scene tonight, with the guilty men and women fleeing to the airport'. So said John Sauven of Greenpeace UK after the climate summit broke up. And he is right.

This is the biggest heist in history. As they poured carbon over snow-covered Denmark from their gas-guzzling jets, world leaders were congratulating themselves on securing a deal which will make their backers and financiers a trillion pounds a year. These riches will come from buying and selling permits, the so-called 'carbon credits' which allow industry and electricity generators in developed countries to emit carbon dioxide.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/12/19/article-1237235-07A73244000005DC-216_468x286.jpg

Hot air: Demonstrators protest against climate deal in Copenhagen

Forget 'Big Oil' - this is 'Big Carbon' making the most of a 'business opportunity' that was created by the first climate treaty at Kyoto in 1997.

The frenzied negotiations we have just seen were never about 'saving the planet'. They were always about money. At stake was this new 'climate change industry' which last year ripped off £129billion from the global economy and is heading for that trillion-pound bonanza by 2020 - but only if the key parts of the Kyoto treaty could be renewed.


With the treaty due to expire by 2012, unless it was replaced, the money tree would fail. Hence, all the power and vested interests of big business were brought into play, stoking up the panic over climate change to create an atmosphere where the parties could keep the money flowing.

Carbon Trading is barely 13 years old yet the scale of the industry is astonishing. Overall control lies with an obscure committee created by Kyoto, The Clean Development Mechanism Executive. It issues firms with the 'golden tickets' known as Certified Emission Reductions (CERs).

At Kyoto, Western governments set targets to cut emissions. In order to achieve this, they set 'caps' on the amount of CO2 a company can produce.

However, if they go over these limits, they may buy permits from firms who have not used up their quotas.

The developing world is not subject to the same caps as the West so they can generate CERs which are then traded by banks.

The actual emissions don't change, it's merely a matter of how much you have to pay for them. For example, in 2006, the NHS spent £6million on carbon permits to keep patients warm.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/12/19/article-1237235-07A780B7000005DC-338_468x376.jpg

Cheers: Energy Minister Ed Miliband, right, applauds with other delegates as the Copenhagen accord is adopted

This was the real business in Copenhagen last week. The game was given away by the head of carbon markets for Merrill Lynch, Abyd Karmali - who is also president of the Carbon Markets and Investors Association.


As campaigners worried about the prospect of the talks failing, Karmali was happily explaining that the envoys would probably decide to extend the 'Kyoto Protocol' even if they could not reach an agreement on emission cuts. And it is those words which revealed what was really going on.

The carbon permits come mainly from rich industrialists in the Third World and state enterprises in China, created out of mythical savings in carbon emissions.

This is precisely what is happening in the west-India state of Gujarat, where the giant Tata conglomerate - which is closing down the Corus steel works in Redcar - is building a giant new coal-fired power plant.

It is four times the size of the proposed Kingsnorth power station in Kent, to which the Greens so violently objected.

Tata's new plant, which is the same design as Kingsnorth, will increase India's carbon emissions by 643million tons over its lifetime, and produce in a year CO2 equivalent to an eighth of the entire UK electricity industry.

Yet because it is more efficient than conventional plants, it is deemed to reduce the average carbon emissions of India's electricity generation system per unit of electricity supplied.

By this convoluted reasoning, not only does it qualify for cheap, green development loans from the World Bank and the Asian Development Bank, it will be given over £500million in free carbon credits by the UN to be sold, via brokers and financiers who all take their cuts. They will be bought by the likes of British electricity generators.

That is but one example of the insane system created by the Kyoto treaty, which was renewed in Copenhagen last week.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1237235/ANALYSIS-Saved--trillion-pound-trade-carbon.html#ixzz0aFQMU3BW



God you're an idiot. It does not "make money out of nothing". It reduces total economic efficiency by making the cost of buying carbon much higher. That is a COST. There is more total money on the line AGAINST this deal than FOR it.

This is a disgusting misrepresentation of the plan, from an economically illiterate individual.

PostmodernProphet
12-20-2009, 03:29 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_D._North

Follow the money indeed , this is written by some con who gets money to attack science

Copenhagen isn't "science", it's "banking"......

PostmodernProphet
12-20-2009, 03:30 PM
It reduces total economic efficiency by making the cost of buying carbon much higher.

it reduces nothing.....it merely increases....costs....

FUCK THE POLICE
12-20-2009, 03:32 PM
The far left is opposed to carbon markets finding the most economically efficient way to reduce carbon for much the same reason as why they can't understand the free market.

FUCK THE POLICE
12-20-2009, 03:32 PM
it reduces nothing.....it merely increases....costs....

The cost of buying carbon.

cancel2 2022
12-20-2009, 03:48 PM
God you're an idiot. It does not "make money out of nothing". It reduces total economic efficiency by making the cost of buying carbon much higher. That is a COST. There is more total money on the line AGAINST this deal than FOR it.

This is a disgusting misrepresentation of the plan, from an economically illiterate individual.

Blimey son, steady on, I quite like you but I might have to reconsider. It is money out of nothing in the sense that there is nothing tangible being bought or sold.

cawacko
12-20-2009, 03:50 PM
Returning to the original topic, what are your thoughts on carbon trading?

I'm embarrassed to say I really don't fully understand carbon trading. I can't even really offer you an opinion on it.

Good Luck
12-20-2009, 03:51 PM
Yes, indeed, follow the money. Follow the money demanded by governments for permission to produce a naturally occurring compound in the production of energy and other economic material items. We have the strong possibility these carbon tax laws will be generating trillions of dollars of new revenue for governments world wide as well as a new multi-billion dollar speculation market for the investment world. Yet people stick stubbornly to the belief the only possible motive for pushing the AGW scam is altruistic concern for the Earth?

Anyone want some swamp land? Never get a better deal than now.

Good Luck
12-20-2009, 03:53 PM
I'm embarrassed to say I really don't fully understand carbon trading. I can't even really offer you an opinion on it.
A speculation company buys a bunch of carbon credits from various governments then resells them at a profit.

Very similar to how oil speculators can drive the price of oil through the roof by repeatedly buying and selling a tanker full of oil even as it steams its way across the Atlantic.

With carbon trading a "carbon credit" (where do these assholes get their ideas? The Mafia would be proud.) may be purchased and resold a number of times before it is actually used by a facility that needs it to pay for their "crime" of producing "too much" CO2.

FUCK THE POLICE
12-20-2009, 03:57 PM
Blimey son, steady on, I quite like you but I might have to reconsider. It is money out of nothing in the sense that there is nothing tangible being bought or sold.

:(

I'm sorry.

Carbon trading increases the cost of doing business with carbon. Companies are naturally going to come up with schemes to reduce their costs, and the ones most efficient at reducing carbon are going to make the most profit.

It creates artificial demand for reducing carbon. That's not "money for nothing", it's "money for reducing carbon".

FUCK THE POLICE
12-20-2009, 03:58 PM
The industries that are negatively impacted by being "capped" and being forced to buy carbon credits represent more money than the entire carbon trading scheme being proposed, though.

FUCK THE POLICE
12-20-2009, 03:59 PM
We actually already have a similar system in place in the US for sulfur dioxide, and it's worked wonderfully and nearly gotten rid of the entire acid rain problem.

cancel2 2022
12-20-2009, 04:05 PM
:(

I'm sorry.

Carbon trading increases the cost of doing business with carbon. Companies are naturally going to come up with schemes to reduce their costs, and the ones most efficient at reducing carbon are going to make the most profit.

It creates artificial demand for reducing carbon. That's not "money for nothing", it's "money for reducing carbon".

It just seems to me that the only ones getting rich are third world despots and giant investment banks like Goldman Sachs. You might as well just stick the money straight into their Swiss bank accounts and cut out the middleman.

Good Luck
12-20-2009, 04:33 PM
It just seems to me that the only ones getting rich are third world despots and giant investment banks like Goldman Sachs. You might as well just stick the money straight into their Swiss bank accounts and cut out the middleman.
Don't be fooled. Other countries, including the U.S. and good ol' Britain are champing at the bit to get in on the carbon tax action. We have at least one cap and trade law sitting in congress already. There's lot's of money to be made from extorting carbon fees.

And I can see scams galore in the process - specifically the sale of carbon credits which were never issued. Since they are fictional creations anyway, how do we keep track of the "genuine" government issued ones?

FUCK THE POLICE
12-20-2009, 05:03 PM
Don't be fooled. Other countries, including the U.S. and good ol' Britain are champing at the bit to get in on the carbon tax action. We have at least one cap and trade law sitting in congress already. There's lot's of money to be made from extorting carbon fees.

And I can see scams galore in the process - specifically the sale of carbon credits which were never issued. Since they are fictional creations anyway, how do we keep track of the "genuine" government issued ones?

I imagine the same we have in the similar sulfur dioxide scheme that's currently in place. This isn't exactly a new idea.

PostmodernProphet
12-20-2009, 06:48 PM
I'm embarrassed to say I really don't fully understand carbon trading. I can't even really offer you an opinion on it.

in short, so long as you can afford it, you can pollute the planet as much as you like......

Good Luck
12-20-2009, 07:26 PM
in short, so long as you can afford it, you can pollute the planet as much as you like......
Carbon trading is about having to pay for CO2 emissions, not pollution.

PostmodernProphet
12-20-2009, 09:12 PM
Carbon trading is about having to pay for CO2 emissions, not pollution.

you haven't been listening to the liberals, have you.......keep up boy, I say, ya gotta keep up! (Foghorn Leghorn imitation there).......pollution is anything you want to make money on.......

FUCK THE POLICE
12-21-2009, 12:01 AM
in short, so long as you can afford it, you can pollute the planet as much as you like......

Yes, if you just have some magical supply of money flowing out of nowhere. Most people want to avoid unnecessary costs though. Cap and trade raises the cost of doing business with carbon; it creates an incentive to reduce carbon. It will work the same way with carbon dioxide as it has worked with sulfur dioxide.

Good Luck
12-21-2009, 12:16 AM
you haven't been listening to the liberals, have you.......keep up boy, I say, ya gotta keep up! (Foghorn Leghorn imitation there).......pollution is anything you want to make money on.......
No, I have not been listening to the liberals. You need a prefrontal lobotomy to believe any of their crap.

FUCK THE POLICE
12-21-2009, 12:28 AM
Carbon trading is about having to pay for CO2 emissions, not pollution.

You've made the distinction without the difference.

FUCK THE POLICE
12-21-2009, 12:29 AM
No, I have not been listening to the liberals. You need a prefrontal lobotomy to believe any of their crap.

Conservatives have never been wrong about anything. They are the source of pretty much everything wrong with America today and I'm fighting to restore America to the greatness they've destroyed.

PostmodernProphet
12-21-2009, 05:21 AM
Yes, if you just have some magical supply of money flowing out of nowhere.
lol.....sounds like a Democrat.......

Topspin
12-22-2009, 06:19 AM
Wow Tom's the typical pussy democrat male isn't he.

This is the funniest shit ever.
Explain me this!!! How are we not teaching the developing countries to use carbon. We are paying them to be like us. LOL

cancel2 2022
12-22-2009, 07:05 AM
Wow Tom's the typical pussy democrat male isn't he.

This is the funniest shit ever.
Explain me this!!! How are we not teaching the developing countries to use carbon. We are paying them to be like us. LOL

I really don't understand what your point is, can you elaborate?

cancel2 2022
12-22-2009, 07:09 AM
Wow Tom's the typical pussy democrat male isn't he.

This is the funniest shit ever.
Explain me this!!! How are we not teaching the developing countries to use carbon. We are paying them to be like us. LOL

I really don't understand what your point is, can you elaborate? Whilst I am waiting, here is an article which explains the process very eloquently.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/147520

Topspin
12-22-2009, 07:18 AM
I really don't understand what your point is, can you elaborate? Whilst I am waiting, here is an article which explains the process very eloquently.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/147520

republicans are bad dems are good and deserve an apple from teachere. Are you fucking serious?

cancel2 2022
12-22-2009, 07:58 AM
republicans are bad dems are good and deserve an apple from teachere. Are you fucking serious?

You claim to have taken two degrees, well I can better that as I have taken three degrees.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI6Yubkz9eA"

Topspin
12-22-2009, 08:37 AM
You claim to have taken two degrees, well I can better that as I have taken three degrees.

YouTube- The Three Degrees - MacArthur Park 1975. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI6Yubkz9eA)

I also claim your a douchebag and have little of import to share. Thanks toolisous maximus

SouthernBelle82
12-22-2009, 12:25 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_D._North

Follow the money indeed , this is written by some con who gets money to attack science

And then pathetic moron's eat up their shit.

SouthernBelle82
12-22-2009, 12:27 PM
So SCIENCE is now the NEW AGE GOD for lefties..and Al Gore is the global warming Messiah..

we've been saying all along FOLLOW THE MONEY..

Science doesn't need money. How can you have a discussion about science without science? And science and religion have nothing to do with each other. :palm: How embarrassing is your post? My God.

SouthernBelle82
12-22-2009, 12:28 PM
it seems the left is only against BIG BUSINESS when it involves a Republican..

Who gives two shits about the pathetic democrat and republican facade? Stick to what is being talked about.

SouthernBelle82
12-22-2009, 12:31 PM
Science has now become a TOOL to EXTORT monies and to be used as a bludgeon against people to CHANGE THEIR LIFESTYLES..the commies used it just the same they used eco fascism..

all you need to look at now is the Progressive-Democrat party is adopting the same practices..

1) It's Democratic. You look like a moron when you purposley type it wrong trying to be cute. It's not cute. You just look pathetic.

2) If people don't want to change their lifestyles that's your personal deal. Science can and will always speak for itself. All I'm saying is you aren't living with me.

3) For anyone who has studied seriously astronomy you would know things change environmentally slowly.

4) What the fuck is eco fascism? If you're a communist you can't be a fascist too. You shouldn't listen to Glenn Beck or Jonah Goldberg cause you look like an ass.

SouthernBelle82
12-22-2009, 12:32 PM
So Goldman Sachs are a bunch of commies?

Lol as a communist hell no.

SouthernBelle82
12-22-2009, 12:33 PM
Believe it or not there are actually quite a few. Remember Wall St gave more money this election cycle to Obama than they did McCain. Dave Corzine the former Senator and Governor of New Jersey was a recent Goldman CEO. Robert Rubin the Clinton Treasury Secretary ran Goldman. And Goldman's current CEO Loyd Blankfein is a Democrat.

And it was Bush's buddy Henry Paulson who did it in the first place.

SouthernBelle82
12-22-2009, 12:34 PM
Well considering they worked in Demcratic administrations seems to indicate them being true Democrats. A lot of Democrats are rich so the idea that they are rich capitalists precludes them from being true Democrats doesn't really fly.

News flash: Democrats aren't against capitalism hon. :palm:

SouthernBelle82
12-22-2009, 12:34 PM
Well, I guess I have it all wrong then and Goldman Sachs isn't a predatory behemoth that wishes to eventually have its tentacles into all of government be it Democrat or Republican but a benevolent organisation working only for the greater good of man. I would have also mentioned Lehman Brothers but they are sadly no longer with us and the kind chaps at Goldman came to the rescue and scooped up their business. By the way, I have every few allusions that the Democrats are that much better than Republicans when it comes to big money, they are all Americans after all.

What does that have to do with Copenhagen? And yes with the Republican party getting more right wing and crazy the more moderate republicans are going to the Democratic party making them more conservative and as that happens more progressive left wing members are leaving.

cancel2 2022
12-22-2009, 12:37 PM
I also claim your a douchebag and have little of import to share. Thanks toolisous maximus

You are a very strange person, I truly cannot work you out.

SouthernBelle82
12-22-2009, 12:37 PM
The far left is opposed to carbon markets finding the most economically efficient way to reduce carbon for much the same reason as why they can't understand the free market.

Ah so we have someone who thinks they're a mind reader and knows every person on the "far left" in the country. Wow. And as far as the "far left" is considered what the fuck is that? Do you mean Democrats? They aren't far left hon. I'm way more left than them as a communist. And honestly the commie friends I have we don't really talk too much science but other issues.

SouthernBelle82
12-22-2009, 12:39 PM
We actually already have a similar system in place in the US for sulfur dioxide, and it's worked wonderfully and nearly gotten rid of the entire acid rain problem.

So if it's worked so well why not do it for other environment issues?

SouthernBelle82
12-22-2009, 12:41 PM
Don't be fooled. Other countries, including the U.S. and good ol' Britain are champing at the bit to get in on the carbon tax action. We have at least one cap and trade law sitting in congress already. There's lot's of money to be made from extorting carbon fees.

And I can see scams galore in the process - specifically the sale of carbon credits which were never issued. Since they are fictional creations anyway, how do we keep track of the "genuine" government issued ones?

I don't see why anyone is surprised. Whenever there is money involved in anything there's someone trying to get a scam going. It's the nature of capitalism. That's why money shouldn't be involved but that's just me.

cancel2 2022
12-22-2009, 12:43 PM
What does that have to do with Copenhagen? And yes with the Republican party getting more right wing and crazy the more moderate republicans are going to the Democratic party making them more conservative and as that happens more progressive left wing members are leaving.

Well, if you had read the rest of thread you would know that Goldman Sachs is one of the prime movers at Copenhagen for the extending of the Kyoto Protocol on carbon trading. They stand to make obscene amounts of money from it.

SouthernBelle82
12-22-2009, 12:45 PM
Well, if you had read the rest of thread you would know that Goldman Sachs is one of the prime movers at Copenhagen for the extending of the Kyoto Protocol on carbon trading. They stand to make obscene amounts of money from it.

Ugh. Why did anyone get them involved? Didn't they fail at their business? I would have at least gotten someone not in debt.....