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View Full Version : LOL. And now the Brits are doing it too!



Damocles
11-27-2006, 11:02 PM
Linky, link... (http://education.guardian.co.uk/schools/story/0,,1957858,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=1)

Revealed: rise of creationism in UK schools

James Randerson, science correspondent
Monday November 27, 2006
The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/)

Dozens of schools are using creationist teaching materials condemned by the government as "not appropriate to support the science curriculum", the Guardian has learned.
The packs promote the creationist alternative to Darwinian evolution called intelligent design and the group behind them said 59 schools are using the information as "a useful classroom resource".

A teacher at one of the schools said it intended to use the DVDs to present intelligent design as an alternative to Darwinism. Nick Cowan, head of chemistry at Bluecoat school, in Liverpool, said: "Just because it takes a negative look at Darwinism doesn't mean it is not science. I think to critique Darwinism is quite appropriate."

But the government has made it clear that "neither intelligent design nor creationism are recognised scientific theories". The chairman of the parliamentary science and technology select committee, the Lib Dem MP Phil Willis, said he was horrified that the packs were being used in schools.

More at link...

uscitizen
11-28-2006, 12:04 AM
I guess Anyold has his work cut out for him.

AnyOldIron
11-28-2006, 03:36 AM
Oh, we still have religious extremist groups over here, who are very fond of kicking off fusses over daft things like operas that depict Jesus.

The point that these wackos miss is that just because something criticises a scientific notion, that doesn't mean it's a scientific idea itself. For it to be science, it must be based on empiricism, not on wild speculation.

The former teacher showed his ignorance... "All the Truth in Science stuff does is put forward stuff that says here's a controversy."

Well, lets say that the universe was created by the fart of a giant turtle. That's a controversy. Why not teach that in school?

Luckily, the vast majority of people who aren't this ex-chemistry teacher recognise the folly of teaching mumbo-jumbo as if it were science, especially to children.

evince
11-28-2006, 06:52 AM
Think of all the lives which would be saved if people made their decisions based on the best available facts instead of mythology?

I so wish human kind would learn to feed their spirit in a constuctive way which didnt involve condeming their fellow man for not doing it their way.

klaatu
11-28-2006, 07:32 AM
Think of all the lives which would be saved if people made their decisions based on the best available facts instead of mythology?

I so wish human kind would learn to feed their spirit in a constuctive way which didnt involve condeming their fellow man for not doing it their way.

See.. i agree with you here Desh... but if anyold were being honest he would challange you by asking..."what do you mean when you refer to Spirit"

klaatu
11-28-2006, 07:37 AM
Well, lets say that the universe was created by the fart of a giant turtle. That's a controversy. Why not teach that in school?

Luckily, the vast majority of people who aren't this ex-chemistry teacher recognise the folly of teaching mumbo-jumbo as if it were science, especially to children.

This is where you lose me ... when you go to this silly extreme ... because the truth is... you havent the slightest idea of why things are what they appear to be... any more than this teacher.

How life and the Universe arrived is open to debate...and the more you and your ilk attempt supress the discussion.. the more fascist you become.

uscitizen
11-28-2006, 07:54 AM
How life and the Universe arrived is open to debate...and the more you and your ilk attempt supress the discussion.. the more fascist you become.

Yep like the creationists like to supress evoloution....

Cypress
11-28-2006, 07:58 AM
This is where you lose me ... when you go to this silly extreme ... because the truth is... you havent the slightest idea of why things are what they appear to be... any more than this teacher.

How life and the Universe arrived is open to debate...and the more you and your ilk attempt supress the discussion.. the more fascist you become.


People are free to debate it. Its a free country.

But, it can't be taught as real "science" in a public school science class, anymore than Noah and his Ark can be taught as real "history", in a school history class.

klaatu
11-28-2006, 08:14 AM
How life and the Universe arrived is open to debate...and the more you and your ilk attempt supress the discussion.. the more fascist you become.

Yep like the creationists like to supress evoloution....

Where is this happening today? Evolution is taught in the schools... unlike Creation ...
It seems to me the only people who get bent out of shape are the people who subscribe to the test tube only scenerio .... in their little world... there is no room for discussion. Its Science ...baby .... I have no problem with Evolution being taught exclusively in the Science class... but I also have no problem with ID...or creationism being taught in other alternative class rooms. Who is tolerant and who isnt...? Dont try and lay that crap on me USC.....

uscitizen
11-28-2006, 08:25 AM
Religion is by nature is very closed minded. discussion is not promoted, only following.

klaatu
11-28-2006, 07:16 PM
Religion is by nature is very closed minded. discussion is not promoted, only following.

religion in of itself and its own teachings... yes I agree. But alternative theories and discussions as to why and how we are here and the origins of the Universe... is an entirely different matter ... A classroom discussion should be encouraged not discouraged. 200 years from now .... people may look back and call the theories of Evolution and Big Bang a crazy belief system of the 21st Century .... simply because something uncompehendable by todays human mind was discovered along the way.

Damocles
11-28-2006, 07:33 PM
I remember Brits all proud that this never happened in their nation when those lawsuits were going on... I'm glad to see that they are willing to admit to insane nutjobs now...

Agnosticus_Caesar
11-28-2006, 10:55 PM
"This is where you lose me ... when you go to this silly extreme ... because the truth is... you havent the slightest idea of why things are what they appear to be... any more than this teacher.

How life and the Universe arrived is open to debate...and the more you and your ilk attempt supress the discussion.. the more fascist you become.":


Moron, the problem is that creationists are trying to have creation TAUGHT AS SCIENCE.


Little Hint For You:

For a concept to be called "Scientific", it has to be a product of "The Scientific Method"


If you want to argue that creation is correct based on OTHER forms of drawing conclusions, be my guest. The minute you try to pretend it's science, you deserve a sound beating with a particularly blunt object.

AnyOldIron
11-29-2006, 05:12 AM
See.. i agree with you here Desh... but if anyold were being honest he would challange you by asking..."what do you mean when you refer to Spirit"

Yep, well spotted Klaatu.

If you mean spirit with reference to human ethos, then fair enough, but if its some mystical transcendental entity seperate from the mechanisms of the brain, then its wishful thinking...

AnyOldIron
11-29-2006, 05:23 AM
This is where you lose me ... when you go to this silly extreme ... because the truth is... you havent the slightest idea of why things are what they appear to be... any more than this teacher.

How life and the Universe arrived is open to debate...and the more you and your ilk attempt supress the discussion.. the more fascist you become.

You aren't getting my point.

Should we teach any controversy as science, just because it challenges a scientific perspective?

Should we teach that the universe was created by a turtle's fart, or a spaghetti monster, just because it is a controversy?

ID isn't taught as science because it isn't science. If you want to teach it as theology, or philosophy, fair enough (though any philosopher worth their weight could tear the argument to pieces in seconds) but it isn't science.

It has no scientific basis.

This isn't restricting debate, any more than saying not teaching the theory of gravity in a music class isn't restricting debate.

AnyOldIron
11-29-2006, 05:25 AM
Its Science ...baby .... I have no problem with Evolution being taught exclusively in the Science class... but I also have no problem with ID...or creationism being taught in other alternative class rooms. Who is tolerant and who isnt...? Dont try and lay that crap on me USC.....

No-one is complaining about creationism being taught in Religious studies, philosophy or sociology class.

People are worried about creationism being taught as science, that's all.

ID takes on airs and graces that don't belong to it...

AnyOldIron
11-29-2006, 05:36 AM
Religion is by nature is very closed minded. discussion is not promoted, only following.

That is the innate nature of faith, the process of non-thinking.

Faith is the belief despite anything, so it is obviously dogmatic and absolutist.

Introduction of children to faith is, IMO, child abuse.

AnyOldIron
11-29-2006, 05:53 AM
I remember Brits all proud that this never happened in their nation when those lawsuits were going on... I'm glad to see that they are willing to admit to insane nutjobs now...

It's not going on. This is an organisation that has sent a pamphlet out, and an ex chemistry teacher is calling for it.

Hardly the Scopes Monkey trial...

uscitizen
11-29-2006, 08:16 AM
All pray to the great spaghetti god, creator of the universe !
And to the snot which begot us.

Damocles
11-29-2006, 09:52 AM
I remember Brits all proud that this never happened in their nation when those lawsuits were going on... I'm glad to see that they are willing to admit to insane nutjobs now...

It's not going on. This is an organisation that has sent a pamphlet out, and an ex chemistry teacher is calling for it.

Hardly the Scopes Monkey trial...
Right it isn't going on...

Let's read that first line again....



Dozens of schools are using creationist teaching materials condemned by the government as "not appropriate to support the science curriculum", the Guardian has learned.


That sure doesn't sound like it was a few pamphlets calling for something, it appears that you, in desperate attempt to cover your santimony from before, ignore that it is currently going on...

Shoot, I remember those, "This would never happen in the UK!" posts...

It's why I found it so funny when I read the article. It appears that particular prognostication was a bit unfounded.

Jarod
12-04-2006, 01:01 PM
This is where you lose me ... when you go to this silly extreme ... because the truth is... you havent the slightest idea of why things are what they appear to be... any more than this teacher.

How life and the Universe arrived is open to debate...and the more you and your ilk attempt supress the discussion.. the more fascist you become.

Sciense belongs in Science class and Religen and Mythology belnog in Religen and Mythology class. If the theory is based on Mythology or Religen it is not a scientific theory and does not belong in science class.

uscitizen
12-05-2006, 09:29 AM
We are still trying to seperate religion and science. Not so long ago people would be killed or imprisioned for expressing scientific views that conflicted with religious doctrine. We have changed little since then.