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DamnYankee
11-09-2009, 04:24 PM
After last weeks stunning defeat in NJ and Virginia, should Democrats move Left to shore up their base, or move to the center to try and win back the moderates?

Which way and why?
FUCK THE POLICE
11-09-2009, 11:17 PM
To accomplish what? To win, they should stay where they are. They just need to get some balls.

I would personally prefer a more left-wing major party though.
DamnYankee
11-10-2009, 11:00 AM
The question should be answered from a Democrat's perspective.
Damocles
11-10-2009, 11:08 AM
I prefer they go left so they get lost in the wilderness of politics quicker.
Mott the Hoople
11-10-2009, 11:16 AM
Health Care Reform will probably die in the Senate by the End of the year and when Dems give up hope on that, they'll go storming back towards the center. The House leadership will agitate for liberal legislation but the Senate and White House will largely ignore them. Considering the far left is almost as clueless as the far right, screw the base.
Damocles
11-10-2009, 11:20 AM
Are you sure they won't go rushing towards some "cap and trade"? You know the modern Ds, they are always good at ensuring they don't retain power long.
evince
11-10-2009, 11:25 AM
S&m, it was not the great victory your delusion has you seeing.
DamnYankee
11-10-2009, 12:01 PM
I'm asking this question because its been the defacto response from conservative thinkers that the Democrats would benefit themselves if they moved towards the center. After all, candidates in VA and NJ won with relatively conservative platforms, and races seem to be decided by the center.

But when Bush won a second term in 2004 the Democrats went further left, selecting Nancy Pelosi as their leader, and since then they've made gains.

Would the Democrats make further gains by staying left, or going even further left?
DamnYankee
11-10-2009, 12:03 PM
S&m, it was not the great victory your delusion has you seeing.

Just Plain Politics! - View Single Post - APP - Rules for this Forum (Read before Posting) (http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showpost.php?p=481069&postcount=1)
evince
11-10-2009, 12:11 PM
Sugar and Milk
Don Quixote
11-10-2009, 06:01 PM
they might as well move left as a group since they will not have a chance to do so for a while (until the reps that follow them screw up again)
DamnYankee
11-10-2009, 06:05 PM
You think that will benefit them as a Party?
Don Quixote
11-10-2009, 07:35 PM
You think that will benefit them as a Party?

no, just as moving more to the right will not help the r's

but it will get less done...
Epicurus
11-10-2009, 08:20 PM
But when Bush won a second term in 2004 the Democrats went further left, selecting Nancy Pelosi as their leader, and since then they've made gains.


Massive, uneducated over-simplification. Sure the leftist Pelosi became Majority Leader, but far more important to their gains was the plethora of centrist and conservative candidates like Heath Shuler, Jim Webb, and Brad Ellsworth the Democrats ran.
FUCK THE POLICE
11-10-2009, 08:28 PM
Give people the choice between a real Republican and a fake Republican and they'll choose the real Republican every time.

The most conservative Democrat who ran for the senate was in South Carolina. By many accounts he was more conservative than Lindsey Graham. He got annihalated. You never win the center by being centrist.
Cancel 2018. 3
11-10-2009, 08:41 PM
Give people the choice between a real Republican and a fake Republican and they'll choose the real Republican every time.

The most conservative Democrat who ran for the senate was in South Carolina. By many accounts he was more conservative than Lindsey Graham. He got annihalated. You never win the center by being centrist.

sure you do....NY 23...

he ran on a center platform, then switched it right before the election
Epicurus
11-10-2009, 08:55 PM
Give people the choice between a real Republican and a fake Republican and they'll choose the real Republican every time.

The most conservative Democrat who ran for the senate was in South Carolina. By many accounts he was more conservative than Lindsey Graham. He got annihalated. You never win the center by being centrist.

Well Conley wasn't really a centrist. He just held extreme views from both sides. He was a Republican until Bush. He said the invasion of Iraq and Bush's tolerance of illegal immigration made him switch parties. He hates the Patriot Act and gay marriage with equal fervor.
DamnYankee
11-11-2009, 06:47 AM
Massive, uneducated over-simplification. Sure the leftist Pelosi became Majority Leader, but far more important to their gains was the plethora of centrist and conservative candidates like Heath Shuler, Jim Webb, and Brad Ellsworth the Democrats ran. Wow so you think that five years ago the Democrats moved not left, but to the center?
Topspin
11-11-2009, 06:59 AM
Big Brother is right, the first thing they need is a pair.

Left, on the optional occupations for decades.
PostmodernProphet
11-11-2009, 07:10 AM
sure you do....NY 23...

he ran on a center platform, then switched it right before the election

the Democrat didn't win NY23, the Republicans lost it.....
Topspin
11-11-2009, 09:51 AM
the Democrat didn't win NY23, the Republicans lost it.....

whambulance for the preacher
PostmodernProphet
11-11-2009, 10:05 AM
whambulance for the preacher

lol, I suppose you think the district is going liberal?.....not when the two candidates who split the right side of the constituency had more combined votes than the last conservative who was elected there......
FUCK THE POLICE
11-11-2009, 05:10 PM
lol, I suppose you think the district is going liberal?.....not when the two candidates who split the right side of the constituency had more combined votes than the last conservative who was elected there......

Given the distribution of votes, it's pretty obvious that Bill Owen would have won in a straight two-way race with Hoffman. In a two-way race with the other candidate he probably would have lost, though. Newt Gingrich hedged his bets in the right place.

The fact that such a conservative candidate can get 45% of the vote in a district Obama won should worry Democrats, though.
Epicurus
11-11-2009, 09:04 PM
Wow so you think that five years ago the Democrats moved not left, but to the center?

Perhaps you're having some trouble understanding this. They may have elected a liberal leader in Pelosi, but that victory was made possible only by running conservative and centrist candidates. I understand that this may be a difficult concept to grasp, but parties are not uniform collective entities.
FUCK THE POLICE
11-11-2009, 09:16 PM
Perhaps you're having some trouble understanding this. They may have elected a liberal leader in Pelosi, but that victory was made possible only by running conservative and centrist candidates. I understand that this may be a difficult concept to grasp, but parties are not uniform collective entities.

Pelosi is really only leader because she was next-in line. If the elections were held by secret ballot she wouldn't have won. Plus, to govern she has to cater to the conservatives and moderates.
DamnYankee
11-12-2009, 07:27 AM
Perhaps you're having some trouble understanding this. They may have elected a liberal leader in Pelosi, but that victory was made possible only by running conservative and centrist candidates. I understand that this may be a difficult concept to grasp, but parties are not uniform collective entities.
Why would the centrists and conservatives elect Pelosi?
Minister of Truth
11-14-2009, 01:01 AM
Why would the centrists and conservatives elect Pelosi?

Because she was a senior, ranking member of the party, as per tradition. Why do you think Byrd is President, Pro-tempore of the Senate?
DamnYankee
11-14-2009, 10:00 AM
I think they have Byrd in that position because to honor the Democrat Party's racist heritage.