APP - Protectionism: Our Only Hope [Archive] - Just Plain Politics!

Lowaicue

09-27-2009, 07:13 AM

You can't take me on, threedee. You'll just end up having another breakdown and another sociopathic identity crisis.

You are both wrong.
Protectionism and globalisation cannot be reduced to sound bites. There are potentially huge successes and potentially huge disasters in each.
It all depends on how these things are managed. There is nothing wrong with exporting jobs if it frees up home labour to be engaged in more profitable industries. There is nothing wrong with high profits providing the ethics of the day are honoured.
Even those simplifications cannot tell the whole story. You cannot criticise Coca Cola for being a global brand and while you might be critical of some industries for using cheap overseas labour it does mean their products are affordable to you, thus keeping inflation under some sort of control.
So in this instance the answer is the same as for the question, 'how long is a piece of string?'

Blackwater Lunchbreak

09-27-2009, 07:30 AM

There is nothing wrong with high profits providing the ethics of the day are honoured.

But they aren't honored. Globalization, instead of spreading freedom, is incentivizing totalitarianism and fascism. Reference china.

Lowaicue

09-27-2009, 07:37 AM

But they aren't honored. Globalization, instead of spreading freedom, is incentivizing totalitarianism and fascism. Reference china.

How short is your dick? Once again, your pompous nonsensical foolishness emerges.

My humble apologies to you, sir. I had forgotten, albeit briefly, that you are the archetypal dumb-arse yank,

Blackwater Lunchbreak

09-27-2009, 07:54 AM

My humble apologies to you, sir. I had forgotten, albeit briefly, that you are the archetypal dumb-arse yank,

Nice personal attack, devoid of substance. Carry on, loser.

Lowaicue

09-27-2009, 08:01 AM

Nice personal attack, devoid of substance. Carry on, loser.

More substance in that short sentence than in anything I have seen you post here. Anyway, you would be better employed and, I am sure, happier in a discussion with your intellectual equivalents. I doubt that that includes mammals, let alone members of the human race.

Blackwater Lunchbreak

09-27-2009, 08:10 AM

More substance in that short sentence than in anything I have seen you post here. Anyway, you would be better employed and, I am sure, happier in a discussion with your intellectual equivalents. I doubt that that includes mammals, let alone members of the human race.

I offered cogent arguments. You offer adhominem attacks.

Lowaicue

09-27-2009, 08:11 AM

Offered cogent arguments. You offer adhominem attacks.

When in Rome...

Blackwater Lunchbreak

09-27-2009, 08:15 AM

When in Rome...

Be an idiot? That's not how it goes. But you seem to be operating with that wrong slogan in your head.

Lowaicue

09-27-2009, 08:27 AM

Be an idiot? That's not how it goes. But you seem to be operating with that wrong slogan in your head.

Of course. How silly of me. Goodnight.

FUCK THE POLICE

09-27-2009, 08:31 AM

Protectionism sucks.

Blackwater Lunchbreak

09-27-2009, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by Lowaicue
There is nothing wrong with high profits providing the ethics of the day are honoured.

But they aren't honored. Globalization, instead of spreading freedom, is incentivizing totalitarianism and fascism. Reference china.

USFREEDOM911

09-27-2009, 12:39 PM

I offered cogent arguments. You offer adhominem attacks.

His Chinese masters force him to post those comments.
If he doesn't kowtow to their whims, then he's sent off for "re-education".
Why do you think he had such a long abscence and just returned.

At one time, they forced him to say that he wanted the US to fail; but when asked about the possibility of a future revolution in China, he wasn't allowed to comment.

If you push him long enough, his masters will let him post something that has no bearing on the subject matter and then they make him defend it.

He's really very amusing, when you realize that he's just a lakey.

USFREEDOM911

09-27-2009, 12:42 PM

But they aren't honored. Globalization, instead of spreading freedom, is incentivizing totalitarianism and fascism. Reference china.

He's not allowed to speak of anything that negatively reflects on China.
His masters will punish him.

Timshel

09-27-2009, 12:42 PM

Not at all. Trade policy should be sculpted to enrich working class americans, not to drive their wages down for the profiteering of a fascist minority.

Protectionist policies are sculpted to enrich certain favored industries at the cost of all consumers/workers.

Minister of Truth

09-27-2009, 02:12 PM

Nice personal attack, devoid of substance. Carry on, loser.

Yeah, because you never attacked Low with one of your typical sexually frustrated one-liners first.

You are both wrong.
Protectionism and globalisation cannot be reduced to sound bites. There are potentially huge successes and potentially huge disasters in each.
It all depends on how these things are managed. There is nothing wrong with exporting jobs if it frees up home labour to be engaged in more profitable industries. There is nothing wrong with high profits providing the ethics of the day are honoured.
Even those simplifications cannot tell the whole story. You cannot criticise Coca Cola for being a global brand and while you might be critical of some industries for using cheap overseas labour it does mean their products are affordable to you, thus keeping inflation under some sort of control.
So in this instance the answer is the same as for the question, 'how long is a piece of string?'

Meh, my p=r line is mostly just a means to get Asshate's blood pressure to skyrocket. However, in the US of A, calling something racist is a convenient way to end a debate. Since people are calling for protectionism from really just one country (China), its hard to ignore the irony of the situation. After all, it wasn't long ago that people were screaming of the "Asian Invasion," and every decade we get "threatened" by a new Asian manufacturing market, bet it Japan, India, or China.

Cancel10

09-27-2009, 02:16 PM

Protectionism and disengagement from entangling alliances is our only hope for a future.

I agree with you that we ought to follow the advice of many founding fathers and reject entangling alliances. Where we disagree is protectionism, because it's a lose-lose situation.

PostmodernProphet

09-27-2009, 02:39 PM

Protectionism and disengagement from entangling alliances is our only hope for a future.

that seems so anti-libertarian......you want the government to interfere in the market place?.....profit from restrictions on trade?....use the law to set prices?......

Blackwater Lunchbreak

09-27-2009, 03:28 PM

that seems so anti-libertarian......you want the government to interfere in the market place?.....profit from restrictions on trade?....use the law to set prices?......

Im not a libertarian. Markets need to be contstrained to operate within overarching moral frameworks, and to operate to support other national goals. What are those goals? Raising the median wage? or making sure bankers are immunized from their own egregious errors? Were you against the bailouts? What about the free market in that situation? No good because it would hurt a bunch of rich wallstreet people? No bank is systemically important. Any fool can take money from the government and pass it around at interest.

I believe in busting monopolies? Do you? do you believe in anti-dumping laws?

This is not a free market, it is a centrally planned market, planned by bankers, the federal reserve, and big business.

No fiat currency economy is fair. The power of money creation is a totalitarian power which necessarily perverts social relations, value, and human reality itself.

PostmodernProphet

09-27-2009, 10:13 PM

Im not a libertarian. Markets need to be contstrained to operate within overarching moral frameworks, and to operate to support other national goals. What are those goals? Raising the median wage? or making sure bankers are immunized from their own egregious errors? Were you against the bailouts? What about the free market in that situation? No good because it would hurt a bunch of rich wallstreet people? No bank is systemically important. Any fool can take money from the government and pass it around at interest.

I believe in busting monopolies? Do you? do you believe in anti-dumping laws?

This is not a free market, it is a centrally planned market, planned by bankers, the federal reserve, and big business.

No fiat currency economy is fair. The power of money creation is a totalitarian power which necessarily perverts social relations, value, and human reality itself.

hmmm....I've seen you argue against conservativism, liberalism, now libertarianism.....what ARE you?.....

I believe in busting monopolies that interfere with a free economy....dumping also interferes...the bailouts interfered....

Blackwater Lunchbreak

09-28-2009, 05:54 AM

hmmm....I've seen you argue against conservativism, liberalism, now libertarianism.....what ARE you?.....

I believe in busting monopolies that interfere with a free economy....dumping also interferes...the bailouts interfered....

I'm an american.

WHen government and business elites are engaged in a war on the middle class, It's peeves me.

Blackwater Lunchbreak

09-28-2009, 05:57 AM

Another aspect of neocon foolishness is the belief that totally free market leads to 8 hr work days and fair treatment. That is provably wrong. We have just forgotten the labor struggles of the past. These are not LEFTY notions. They're humane notions.

Lowaicue

09-28-2009, 06:53 AM

I'm an american.

WHen government and business elites are engaged in a war on the middle class, It's peeves me.

It was Americans who screwed up your economy.

Blackwater Lunchbreak

09-28-2009, 06:55 AM

It was Americans who screwed up your economy.

Yes. the ones in power. The elites.

Lowaicue

09-28-2009, 07:13 AM

Yes. the ones in power. The elites.

No. ALL Americans. Untenable mortgage holders, credit card debtors, purchasers of gas guzzlers, people who consumed and polluted more than any other on the planet, Wall street, Main street, small town and city. All Americans were part of the system that failed.

But

There was nothing you could do about it because you were all scared shitless of those terrible Al Quaeda guys blowing you up in your beds.

Blackwater Lunchbreak

09-28-2009, 07:23 AM

No. ALL Americans. Untenable mortgage holders, credit card debtors, purchasers of gas guzzlers, people who consumed and polluted more than any other on the planet, Wall street, Main street, small town and city. All Americans were part of the system that failed.

But

There was nothing you could do about it because you were all scared shitless of those terrible Al Quaeda guys blowing you up in your beds.

Wrong. The "we're all to blame" bs is a way of shifting guilt from the true perpetrators.

PostmodernProphet

09-28-2009, 07:36 AM

I'm an american.

WHen government and business elites are engaged in a war on the middle class, It's peeves me.

dodge....are you simply against everything?....

Blackwater Lunchbreak

09-28-2009, 07:40 AM

dodge....are you simply against everything?....

No. I'm for policies which strenthen americans on along term basis. Not ones which destroy our general standard of living, production capacity, and even national security for the short term profit of a few ceos and politicians.

Lowaicue

09-28-2009, 08:07 AM

Wrong. The "we're all to blame" bs is a way of shifting guilt from the true perpetrators.

No. Blaming others is a way of avoiding your own guilt.

Blackwater Lunchbreak

09-28-2009, 08:20 AM

No. Blaming others is a way of avoiding your own guilt.

Our policians have been doing what's good for corprations for years, and not what's good for the future of the nation or it;s people. I don't and won't blame myself for this complete corruption of our government.

Lowaicue

09-28-2009, 08:33 AM

Our policians have been doing what's good for corprations for years, and not what's good for the future of the nation or it;s people. I don't and won't blame myself for this complete corruption of our government.

Of course they have. That's the name of the game. Either they are corrupt, in which case the citizenry will get rid of them, or they are doing what the majority want, in which case they will stay. You will never get 100% consensus, that's why we have various forms of democracy. Some are better in some circumstances than others. Ultimately it is up to the electorate to persuade enough people to keep or change.
Whilst you may be right about many things it is as well to look at the possible alternatives.
I hate to say this, because I am sure that it goes against every red corpuscle in your body, but a totalitarian system such as that practised in China is, in some respects, better than the democracies we have been playing with for years. They have progressed more in the last 60 years than Europe or the US. granted they started from a lot further back but it is the US that owes China money not the other way round.

Blackwater Lunchbreak

09-28-2009, 08:47 AM

Of course they have. That's the name of the game. Either they are corrupt, in which case the citizenry will get rid of them, or they are doing what the majority want, in which case they will stay. You will never get 100% consensus, that's why we have various forms of democracy. Some are better in some circumstances than others. Ultimately it is up to the electorate to persuade enough people to keep or change.
Whilst you may be right about many things it is as well to look at the possible alternatives.
I hate to say this, because I am sure that it goes against every red corpuscle in your body, but a totalitarian system such as that practised in China is, in some respects, better than the democracies we have been playing with for years. They have progressed more in the last 60 years than Europe or the US. granted they started from a lot further back but it is the US that owes China money not the other way round.

The citizenry does not have the power to get rid of them. Only the ones who believes in the same corrupt mentality get the go ahead and funding from the money and power brokers. There is no real choice.

China is an utter failure, in human terms.

Lowaicue

09-28-2009, 09:01 AM

The citizenry does not have the power to get rid of them. Only the ones who believes in the same corrupt mentality get the go ahead and funding from the money and power brokers. There is no real choice.

China is an utter failure, in human terms.

Been there?

Blackwater Lunchbreak

09-28-2009, 09:13 AM

Been there?

It's an oppressive regime. I don;t have to go to know it sucks.

Just because they have KFC doesn';t mean freedom is on the march.

Lowaicue

09-28-2009, 07:19 PM

It's an oppressive regime. I don;t have to go to know it sucks.

Just because they have KFC doesn';t mean freedom is on the march.

All regimes are oppressive to some degree. If you want progress then governmental guidance and control is essential. China is oppressive in some areas and freer than the US in others. You really should go. It has more to offer in the way of scenic beauty, history, myth and magic than any other nation on earth.
And puh-lease stop banging the freedom drum. It is such a tired old lie. You really are not as free as you think you are.

Canceled1

09-28-2009, 07:31 PM

It's an oppressive regime. I don;t have to go to know it sucks.

Just because they have KFC doesn';t mean freedom is on the march.

Well actually it is Kentucky Fried Cat in China, but I hear it tastes "just like chicken".... :p

Minister of Truth

09-28-2009, 11:16 PM

All regimes are oppressive to some degree. If you want progress then governmental guidance and control is essential. China is oppressive in some areas and freer than the US in others. You really should go. It has more to offer in the way of scenic beauty, history, myth and magic than any other nation on earth.
And puh-lease stop banging the freedom drum. It is such a tired old lie. You really are not as free as you think you are.

Says the guy who lives under tyranny. LOL

Blackwater Lunchbreak

09-29-2009, 06:08 AM

Lowaicue

09-29-2009, 06:46 AM

Says the guy who lives under tyranny. LOL

Says the guy who is still waiting for his balls to drop.
Have you EVER been abroad? On your own? Without mummy's hand to hold?
You have absolutely no idea.
Anyway you have the right, under your constitution to be a fool. Enjoy.

Blackwater Lunchbreak

09-29-2009, 06:49 AM

Says the guy who is still waiting for his balls to drop.
Have you EVER been abroad? On your own? Without mummy's hand to hold?
You have absolutely no idea.
Anyway you have the right, under your constitution to be a fool. Enjoy.

Go away troll. You're not deep. you're not intelligent. You're just another fascist with no soul.

Lowaicue

09-29-2009, 07:28 AM

Go away troll. You're not deep. you're not intelligent. You're just another fascist with no soul.

Oh come, come. Lets be positive.
You are as shallow as a skid mark, you are a yank. You are f***** stupid. You are just another misguided, mis-educated ignoramus.

Blackwater Lunchbreak

09-29-2009, 07:30 AM

Oh come, come. Lets be positive.
You are as shallow as a skid mark, you are a yank. You are f***** stupid. You are just another misguided, mis-educated ignoramus.

Ad hominem attacks are not an effective argument. You look foolish. You're just plain out of ideas.

Lowaicue

09-29-2009, 08:07 AM

Ad hominem attacks are not an effective argument. You look foolish. You're just plain out of ideas.

So sorry, yank. I thought, after your sad showing, that AH comments were the only ones you understood. If you would prefer a discussion in which you do not prove you own stupidity and inconsistencies please have another attempt. I don't mind waiting.

Blackwater Lunchbreak

09-29-2009, 08:35 AM

So sorry, yank. I thought, after your sad showing, that AH comments were the only ones you understood. If you would prefer a discussion in which you do not prove you own stupidity and inconsistencies please have another attempt. I don't mind waiting.

You've already been defeated. Now you're just making noise. Go away.

Canceled1

09-29-2009, 08:41 AM

You've already been defeated. Now you're just making noise. Go away.

Herpes = He will NEVER go away. Just flare up.

You fed him. Now you're going to have to walk him and have him de-wormed once a year.

So sad. Too bad.

Lowaicue

09-29-2009, 08:03 PM

You've already been defeated. Now you're just making noise. Go away.

Mission accomplished??? LOL

Lowaicue

09-29-2009, 08:07 PM

Herpes = He will NEVER go away. Just flare up.

You fed him. Now you're going to have to walk him and have him de-wormed once a year.

So sad. Too bad.

Still obsessed you stupid dried out cow. Go get a guy. Try the Home for the blind. Want me to lend you the money?

(Genuine apologies to all those this might offend. She's been begging for my attention since I came back. So now she has it)

Minister of Truth

09-29-2009, 10:42 PM

Says the guy who is still waiting for his balls to drop.
Have you EVER been abroad? On your own? Without mummy's hand to hold?
You have absolutely no idea.
Anyway you have the right, under your constitution to be a fool. Enjoy.

Yes, I do. You on the other hand are REQUIRED to be a fool. Freedom.

BTW, my balls dropped recently, right into a tax-loving teabaggee's mouth. She was super hot, so I didn't care that her politics suck. Mission accomplished.

Lowaicue

09-30-2009, 03:52 AM

Yes, I do. You on the other hand are REQUIRED to be a fool. Freedom.

BTW, my balls dropped recently, right into a tax-loving teabaggee's mouth. She was super hot, so I didn't care that her politics suck. Mission accomplished.

Nope. Wrong again, sonny. My life is a quite a bit freer than is yours. If you would like to compare notes sometime I'll gladly engage.
Would someone like to explain what is meant by a teabag? Apart, that is, from a small bag filled with tea or an item of ladies' underwear. Strange language you speak.
BTW when you actually DO get a blow job (that you havent had to pay for) be sure and let us know. In fact let us know when you eventually lose your cherry as well.

Blackwater Lunchbreak

09-30-2009, 06:45 AM

Mission accomplished??? LOL

LOL. Funny. Not.

You suck at thinking.

cancel2 2022

09-30-2009, 06:55 AM

Nope. Wrong again, sonny. My life is a quite a bit freer than is yours. If you would like to compare notes sometime I'll gladly engage.
Would someone like to explain what is meant by a teabag? Apart, that is, from a small bag filled with tea or an item of ladies' underwear. Strange language you speak.
BTW when you actually DO get a blow job (that you havent had to pay for) be sure and let us know. In fact let us know when you eventually lose your cherry as well.

Do you really want to know about teabagging?

Damocles

09-30-2009, 07:05 AM

Do you really want to know about teabagging (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teabagging)?
I know that I prefer being a teabagger than a teabaggee. Why are you so proud of being a teabaggee?

Cancel5

09-30-2009, 05:22 PM

I know that I prefer being a teabagger than a teabaggee. Why are you so proud of being a teabaggee?
Why didn't someone pick a different name?

Minister of Truth

10-09-2009, 07:15 PM

Why didn't someone pick a different name?

Because a bunch of retards thought they could capitalize off of the term Tea Party... Sadly for them, Tea Party will always have a positive conotation in America, due to our history. They can make perverted sexual references, but they cannot undo history.