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tinfoil
09-18-2009, 08:31 AM
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/18/obama-ties-immigration-to-health-care-battle/?feat=home_cube_position1

No problem from me. Collect taxes and enforce all the laws legal business has to follow and I have no problem with hard working people immigrating. But as it is now, they undermine the economy by driving labor rates down and they shortchange the gov out of tax revenue that they end up taking from those businesses that are legal.

So, make illegals legal, but enforce the damn laws

Jarod
09-18-2009, 08:33 AM
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/18/obama-ties-immigration-to-health-care-battle/?feat=home_cube_position1

No problem from me. Collect taxes and enforce all the laws legal business has to follow and I have no problem with hard working people immigrating. But as it is now, they undermine the economy by driving labor rates down and they shortchange the gov out of tax revenue that they end up taking from those businesses that are legal.

So, make illegals legal, but enforce the damn laws

Many if not most illegals pay taxes. They give false ID numbers so they cant get the refund, so they end up paying even more than they are required in taxes.

tinfoil
09-18-2009, 08:36 AM
Many if not most illegals pay taxes. They give false ID numbers so they cant get the refund, so they end up paying even more than they are required in taxes.

You got a source?
I'll agree that a small percentage use stolen SS ids, but the vast majority work under the table and pay no tax.

It's common sense that the majority do not pay income tax.

Jarod
09-18-2009, 08:39 AM
You got a source?
I'll agree that a small percentage use stolen SS ids, but the vast majority work under the table and pay no tax.

It's common sense that the majority do not pay income tax.

My only source is the employers I have spoken to, and the illegals my childrens nanny knows. Not many people are going to admit to it, and thus there would be no record.

The fact is that most do pay taxes because employers do not want to go to jail, they can pretend they did not know the SSN or IDN was fake, but if they do not collect the number, and the taxes, they can go to jail.

DamnYankee
09-18-2009, 08:56 AM
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/18/obama-ties-immigration-to-health-care-battle/?feat=home_cube_position1

No problem from me. Collect taxes and enforce all the laws legal business has to follow and I have no problem with hard working people immigrating. But as it is now, they undermine the economy by driving labor rates down and they shortchange the gov out of tax revenue that they end up taking from those businesses that are legal.

So, make illegals legal, but enforce the damn laws Borders are important. The language and culture are who we are. Therefore we need control over immigration.

That being said I'd be more than happy to accept as many hard working immigrants as the roads can carry. My only stipulation is that they are in a state of probation for the first five years. If they commit a crime they are out. If they don't learn English and American History to the high school level they are out. If they don't have a job and can prove increasing income and responsibility over the probation period then they are out. If they can't get letters of recommendation by three natural born citizens from three different ethnicities other than their own who have known them for at least one year prior to the end of the probation period then they are out.

PostmodernProphet
09-18-2009, 09:00 AM
I believe that an expanded immigration system would be good for the US....
Creating a trackable work visa system would eliminate the bulk of illegal traffic crossing the borders and permit better control of illegal drug trafficing....
Employers should be able to hire people from other countries to work in the US, but should be required to provide full time employment, to pay a higher minimum wage and provide health insurance so immigrants would not be a drain on either the welfare system or health system....
Employers should also pay a surcharge to cover the cost of monitoring the visa system, something like $1 per hour for every hour worked by an immigrant employee.....

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2009, 09:02 AM
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/18/obama-ties-immigration-to-health-care-battle/?feat=home_cube_position1

No problem from me. Collect taxes and enforce all the laws legal business has to follow and I have no problem with hard working people immigrating. But as it is now, they undermine the economy by driving labor rates down and they shortchange the gov out of tax revenue that they end up taking from those businesses that are legal.

So, make illegals legal, but enforce the damn laws

wrong. The glut of workers keeps wages low. Even if they were legal it would still drive wages down, just due to labor market forces.

The war on the middle class must end.

DamnYankee
09-18-2009, 09:09 AM
wrong. The glut of workers keeps wages low. Even if they were legal it would still drive wages down, just due to labor market forces.

The war on the middle class must end. When wages are low products and services cost less and there is more competition- everyone wins. Have faith in capitalism my young friend.

Jarod
09-18-2009, 09:30 AM
Borders are important. The language and culture are who we are. Therefore we need control over immigration.

That being said I'd be more than happy to accept as many hard working immigrants as the roads can carry. My only stipulation is that they are in a state of probation for the first five years. If they commit a crime they are out. If they don't learn English and American History to the high school level they are out. If they don't have a job and can prove increasing income and responsibility over the probation period then they are out. If they can't get letters of recommendation by three natural born citizens from three different ethnicities other than their own who have known them for at least one year prior to the end of the probation period then they are out.

Language and culture are ever changing no matter what. Keep up or get left behind.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2009, 10:08 AM
Language and culture are ever changing no matter what. Keep up or get left behind.

Countries exist to protect their people, not just to be boudaries of fascist control.

Illegal immigration is an invasion.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2009, 10:11 AM
When wages are low products and services cost less and there is more competition- everyone wins. Have faith in capitalism my young friend.

No. everyone doesn;t win. People put out of jobs or who have their futures destroyed by immigration policy should not have to endure this.

Markets have always been tempered with controls to keep local populations from being sacrficed to greed.

Protectionist measures have always been part of trade.

It's only in this new globalist neocon horseshit interpretation of things that the belief that all policies should favor corporate greed over working people has become popular.

I suggest removing your head from your ass. Fascism isn't cool.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2009, 10:16 AM
Sorry sm, you know this issue gets to me. Sorry about my naughty words directed at you.

DamnYankee
09-18-2009, 10:20 AM
Sorry sm, you know this issue gets to me. Sorry about my naughty words directed at you.Say three Hail Mary's, Two Our Father's and put ten bucks in the poor box. :)

TuTu Monroe
09-18-2009, 10:36 AM
Countries exist to protect their people, not just to be boudaries of fascist control.

Illegal immigration is an invasion.

It has been an invasion here for decades.

Hermes Thoth
09-18-2009, 10:38 AM
It has been an invasion here for decades.

It needs to stop.

Why are so many americans pro-invasion?

TuTu Monroe
09-18-2009, 12:05 PM
It needs to stop.

Why are so many americans pro-invasion?

I think many Americans are clueless about the problems it has caused. Part of the problem is the Mexican government who have encouraged them to come here.

Norman Paperman
09-18-2009, 03:48 PM
Many if not most illegals pay taxes. They give false ID numbers so they cant get the refund, so they end up paying even more than they are required in taxes.

So they essentially steal someone else's SS number?

SmarterthanYou
09-18-2009, 03:54 PM
When wages are low products and services cost less and there is more competition- everyone wins. Have faith in capitalism my young friend.

capitalism cannot work if the market is manipulated by the corporations. That is not free market.

FUCK THE POLICE
09-18-2009, 10:35 PM
Just what I've been wanting. :clink:

FUCK THE POLICE
09-18-2009, 10:37 PM
So they essentially steal someone else's SS number?

No.

USFREEDOM911
09-18-2009, 10:39 PM
My only source is the employers I have spoken to, and the illegals my childrens nanny knows. Not many people are going to admit to it, and thus there would be no record.

The fact is that most do pay taxes because employers do not want to go to jail, they can pretend they did not know the SSN or IDN was fake, but if they do not collect the number, and the taxes, they can go to jail.

So they're not claiming any dependents, when they fill out the forms for their employment??

tinfoil
09-19-2009, 12:25 AM
I think Jarod is an ACORN lawyer

USFREEDOM911
09-19-2009, 12:55 AM
I think Jarod is an ACORN lawyer

Then ACORN is really screwed.

TuTu Monroe
09-19-2009, 05:08 PM
You got a source?
I'll agree that a small percentage use stolen SS ids, but the vast majority work under the table and pay no tax.

It's common sense that the majority do not pay income tax.

The illegals in big farms pay FICA tax, but I haven't seen one pay any Federal Income tax or State tax. You are correct, most of them work under the table and pay no income taxes and send most of their money or take it back to Mexico

TuTu Monroe
09-19-2009, 05:12 PM
So they essentially steal someone else's SS number?

No, one can get fake SS numbers on any street corner, so to speak.

Minister of Truth
09-20-2009, 02:15 PM
It needs to stop.

Why are so many americans pro-invasion?

You ever hear of the Know-Nothing Party? And protectionism = racism.

cancel2 2022
09-20-2009, 02:20 PM
The illegals in big farms pay FICA tax, but I haven't seen one pay any Federal Income tax or State tax. You are correct, most of them work under the table and pay no income taxes and send most of their money or take it back to Mexico

Just answer one question, if it wasn't for Mexicans who would pick the fruit and veg in California?

christiefan915
09-20-2009, 02:33 PM
The illegals in big farms pay FICA tax, but I haven't seen one pay any Federal Income tax or State tax. You are correct, most of them work under the table and pay no income taxes and send most of their money or take it back to Mexico

So because "you haven't seen one", it follows that none of them pay it. :rolleyes:

Why don't you criticize the people paying them under the table? If they were getting real paychecks, these taxes would be deducted.

TuTu Monroe
09-21-2009, 01:31 AM
So because "you haven't seen one", it follows that none of them pay it. :rolleyes:

Why don't you criticize the people paying them under the table? If they were getting real paychecks, these taxes would be deducted.

I've seen the records, dear one and that's all you need to know.

Oh, I have critized them and told them they are not doing themselves a favor or their workers by doing this. Some of them don't even have I-9's in their possession which is against the law.

PostmodernProphet
09-21-2009, 04:09 AM
Just answer one question, if it wasn't for Mexicans who would pick the fruit and veg in California?

whoever got hired to do it.....it would probably cost you more for a head of lettuce.....but do you insist on a cheap head of lettuce just so you can maintain a class of people as shadow citizens, afraid to live a normal life?.....

christiefan915
09-21-2009, 08:39 AM
I've seen the records, dear one and that's all you need to know.

Oh, I have critized them and told them they are not doing themselves a favor or their workers by doing this. Some of them don't even have I-9's in their possession which is against the law.

One of my kids has a part-time minimum wage job and there is no FIT deduction on the pay stub, just FICA. It's because there's not enough wage there to tax.

tinfoil
09-21-2009, 08:59 AM
Just answer one question, if it wasn't for Mexicans who would pick the fruit and veg in California?

whoever the farmer hires to do it. Why are you a racist? Do only Mexicans have the skills to pick fruit and vegs? Looking the other way and allowing illegal labor practices is what drives the wages down.

TuTu Monroe
09-21-2009, 04:39 PM
One of my kids has a part-time minimum wage job and there is no FIT deduction on the pay stub, just FICA. It's because there's not enough wage there to tax.

Really? I would never have known that if you hadn't told me.:rolleyes:

uscitizen
09-21-2009, 08:08 PM
whoever the farmer hires to do it. Why are you a racist? Do only Mexicans have the skills to pick fruit and vegs? Looking the other way and allowing illegal labor practices is what drives the wages down.

Several states are looking at slave prison labor to replace the farm workers lost becuse of increased immigration controls.

cancel2 2022
09-22-2009, 01:02 AM
whoever got hired to do it.....it would probably cost you more for a head of lettuce.....but do you insist on a cheap head of lettuce just so you can maintain a class of people as shadow citizens, afraid to live a normal life?.....

As usual you miss the point, Hispanics illegal or otherwise do those jobs because Americans are not prepared to or pay the higher prices resultant from paying decent wages. The same situation exists in the UK only instead of Mexicans substitute Poles, Czechs, Bulgarians and Romanians.

PostmodernProphet
09-22-2009, 05:43 AM
As usual you miss the point, Hispanics illegal or otherwise do those jobs because Americans are not prepared to or pay the higher prices resultant from paying decent wages. The same situation exists in the UK only instead of Mexicans substitute Poles, Czechs, Bulgarians and Romanians.

du'h.....that is my point.....you are prepared to continue illegals in the shadow zone just so you can have cheaper prices....

eliminate the shadow zone, either by allowing legal immigration or by stopping illegal immigration and pay the higher prices......I thought liberals were in favor of "living wages"?.......

cancel2 2022
09-22-2009, 01:59 PM
du'h.....that is my point.....you are prepared to continue illegals in the shadow zone just so you can have cheaper prices....

eliminate the shadow zone, either by allowing legal immigration or by stopping illegal immigration and pay the higher prices......I thought liberals were in favor of "living wages"?.......

I am in favour of the Fairtrade Foundation (http://www.fairtrade.org.uk/what_is_fairtrade/default.aspx), do you have that in the US?

PostmodernProphet
09-22-2009, 05:13 PM
there are places you can buy Fairtrade products.....another interesting place is Ten Thousand Villages....

http://www.tenthousandvillages.com/

Cancel5
09-22-2009, 11:14 PM
there are places you can buy Fairtrade products.....another interesting place is Ten Thousand Villages....

http://www.tenthousandvillages.com/
Thanks, that is awesome!