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tinfoil
09-10-2009, 07:47 AM
http://media.sfexaminer.com/documents/noncitizens.pdf

Great fucking plan


Summary

This report outlines the treatment of noncitizens (aliens) under H.R. 3200, America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009. In particular, the report analyzes specific provisions in H.R. 3200, and whether there are eligibility requirements for noncitizens in the provisions. Within the bill, noncitizens are treated differently in several provisions. In 2008, there were approximately 37.3 million foreign-born persons in the United States. The foreign-born population was comprised of approximately 15.1 million naturalized U.S. citizens and 22.2 million noncitizens. H.R. 3200 includes an individual mandate to have health insurance, with tax penalties for noncompliance. Individuals who do not maintain acceptable health insurance coverage for themselves and their children would be required to pay an additional tax. Some individuals, including nonresident aliens, would be exempt from the individual mandate. fiNonresident alienfl is a term under tax but not immigration law. For federal tax purposes, alien individuals are classified as resident or nonresident aliens. In general, an individual is a nonresident alien unless he or she meets the qualifications under a residency test. Thus, legal permanent residents, and noncitizens and unauthorized aliens who qualify as resident aliens (i.e., meet the substantial presence test), would be required under H.R. 3200 to have health insurance. In addition, under H.R. 3200, a fiHealth Insurance Exchangefl would begin operation in 2013 and would offer private plans alongside a public option. The Exchange would provide eligible individuals and small businesses with access to insurers™ plans, including the public option, in a comparable way. Individuals would only be eligible to enroll in an Exchange plan if they were not enrolled in other acceptable coverage (for example, from an employer, Medicare and generally Medicaid). H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens participating in the ExchangeŠwhether the noncitizens are legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently. Nonetheless, only aliens who could be classified as resident aliens would be required under the bill to have health insurance. In 2013, under H.R. 3200, some individuals would be eligible for premium credits (i.e., subsidies based on income) toward their required purchase of health insurance. To be eligible for the premium credits under H.R. 3200, individuals must be lawfully present in a state in the United States, excluding most nonimmigrants (i.e., those in the United States for a specific purpose and a specific period of time). The exceptions for nonimmigrants who could obtain premium credits under H.R. 3200 would be trafficking victims, crime victims, fiancées of U.S. citizens, and those who have had applications for legal permanent residence (LPR) status pending for three years. It is expected that almost all aliens in these excepted nonimmigrant categories will become LPRs (i.e., immigrants) and remain in the United States permanently. Furthermore, unauthorized aliens would be barred from receiving the premium credit. H.R. 3200 as reported from the House Energy and Commerce Committee (E&C) would extend Medicaid eligibility up to 133 1/3% of poverty for populations that previously were not covered (e.g., childless adults and many parents). This extension of benefits could mean an increase in the number of noncitizens who already meet the immigration status requirements for Medicaid eligibility who would be eligible for Medicaid. Also, H.R. 3200 as reported by E & C would make eligible for full Medicaid noncitizens who lawfully reside in the United States in accordance with the Compacts of Free Association between the Government of the United States and the Governments of the Federated States of Micronesia, the Republic of the Marshall Islands, and the Republic of Palau, and are otherwise eligible for such assistance. This report will be updated.


addditional link
http://opencrs.com/document/R40773/

tinfoil
09-10-2009, 07:55 AM
http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090830/A_OPINION0611/908300306/-1/NEWSMAP

Obama lies

Don Quixote
09-10-2009, 08:23 AM
http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090830/A_OPINION0611/908300306/-1/NEWSMAP

Obama lies

is hr3200 sponsored by bho

fraud exists regardless of what is proposed

fyi, i think there is insufficient fraud detection for all government programs...especially aerospace or the military industrial complex

tinfoil
09-10-2009, 08:26 AM
Specific language to prevent fraudulent coverage of illegal immigrants is needed

tinfoil
09-10-2009, 08:28 AM
is hr3200 sponsored by bho




Yesterday, Maxine Waters called on Obama in the same manner

Jarod
09-10-2009, 08:29 AM
Fraud by illegals is not the same as allowing it. Its a point for debate, its not a lie.

Damocles
09-10-2009, 08:31 AM
is hr3200 sponsored by bho

fraud exists regardless of what is proposed

fyi, i think there is insufficient fraud detection for all government programs...especially aerospace or the military industrial complex
HR 3200 is the one that he urged them to vote on before recess, it is the one they've been defending these past months and it is the one that will be voted on in the Congress.

Yeah, I'd say that is support.

uscitizen
09-10-2009, 08:36 AM
I thought the right supported deregulation of illegals?

tinfoil
09-10-2009, 09:01 AM
Fraud by illegals is not the same as allowing it. Its a point for debate, its not a lie.

What? Doesn't even make sense.

I don't have faith that we can police healthcare and prevent fraud especially if there is no language preventing said fraud. In other words, unless it says illegal immigrants will not be elligible for subsidized services, it's pretty obvious they'll be able to get them. Are we planning on having health police at every doctors office or hospital?

Hermes Thoth
09-10-2009, 09:02 AM
Fraud by illegals is not the same as allowing it. Its a point for debate, its not a lie.

Your mind is utterly gone.

Don Quixote
09-10-2009, 09:13 AM
HR 3200 is the one that he urged them to vote on before recess, it is the one they've been defending these past months and it is the one that will be voted on in the Congress.

Yeah, I'd say that is support.

ok, he supports it, but does it propose coverage for illegals or insufficient fraud detection

there is no exclusion for illegals to buy insurance right now

i expect that illegals could buy insurance via the insurance exchange/co-op

Jarod
09-10-2009, 09:27 AM
What? Doesn't even make sense.

I don't have faith that we can police healthcare and prevent fraud especially if there is no language preventing said fraud. In other words, unless it says illegal immigrants will not be elligible for subsidized services, it's pretty obvious they'll be able to get them. Are we planning on having health police at every doctors office or hospital?

Then that is not fraud.

Hermes Thoth
09-10-2009, 09:28 AM
Then that is not fraud.

But illegals will be covered.

Damocles
09-10-2009, 09:33 AM
ok, he supports it, but does it propose coverage for illegals or insufficient fraud detection

there is no exclusion for illegals to buy insurance right now

i expect that illegals could buy insurance via the insurance exchange/co-op
It covers "undocumented visitors" and "pregnancy reversal", so yeah. It covers illegal immigrants and abortions.

tinfoil
09-10-2009, 09:33 AM
I thought the right supported deregulation of illegals?

Another moronic strawan.

Honestly, I don't even know what the fuck he's trying to say here.

Jarod
09-10-2009, 09:35 AM
But illegals will be covered.

They will not be covered...

Bonestorm
09-10-2009, 09:43 AM
It covers "undocumented visitors" and "pregnancy reversal", so yeah. It covers illegal immigrants and abortions.


Source it, hotshot. I've already provided you a link to the bill. It shouldn't be too tough.

I realize you may be being cute, but there are plenty of people that believe that shit. Show your hand or cut it out.

Jarod
09-10-2009, 09:45 AM
Section 246 of HR320 says, “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”

Jarod
09-10-2009, 09:46 AM
It covers "undocumented visitors" and "pregnancy reversal", so yeah. It covers illegal immigrants and abortions.

Where do you get that? Are you resorting to making shit up now days?

Hermes Thoth
09-10-2009, 09:46 AM
Section 246 of HR320 says, “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”

What's an affordability credit?

Hermes Thoth
09-10-2009, 09:50 AM
It also merely says, "nothing IN THAT SUBTITLE". It does not explicity forbid it.

Canceled2
09-10-2009, 09:50 AM
HR 3200 is the one that he urged them to vote on before recess, it is the one they've been defending these past months and it is the one that will be voted on in the Congress.

Yeah, I'd say that is support.

He directed congress to put together a bill. As you note he asked them to rush it through for a vote making him its author. To claim he is not the author is disingenuous.

Hermes Thoth
09-10-2009, 09:52 AM
It needs to be forbidden explicity. Not "not allowed" according to a given section.

uscitizen
09-10-2009, 09:55 AM
It needs to be forbidden explicity. Not "not allowed" according to a given section.

Not allowed is forbidden. Duhhh

Try smoking in a "smoking not allowed" area.

Hermes Thoth
09-10-2009, 09:57 AM
Not allowed is forbidden. Duhhh

Try smoking in a "smoking not allowed" area.

In this case it needs to be specifically forbidden. Laws must do that.

Canceled2
09-10-2009, 09:58 AM
It covers "undocumented visitors" and "pregnancy reversal", so yeah. It covers illegal immigrants and abortions.

I read Buck from time to time...enjoy

http://www.bucksays.com/

Damocles
09-10-2009, 10:58 AM
I read Buck from time to time...enjoy

http://www.bucksays.com/
I've never heard of him before now. Interesting.

tinfoil
09-10-2009, 02:02 PM
What's an affordability credit?

Also, there is no requirement to prove citizenship, so that entire passage is meaningless.

Cypress
09-10-2009, 04:34 PM
What? Doesn't even make sense.

I don't have faith that we can police healthcare and prevent fraud especially if there is no language preventing said fraud. In other words, unless it says illegal immigrants will not be elligible for subsidized services, it's pretty obvious they'll be able to get them. Are we planning on having health police at every doctors office or hospital?

Your concern with fraud is noted.

Do you support more stringent government regulation to prevent fraud by contractors?

Didn't you post that you intentionally overcharge people, and lie to them about what they need fixed?

tinfoil
09-10-2009, 05:03 PM
Your concern with fraud is noted.

Do you support more stringent government regulation to prevent fraud by contractors?

Didn't you post that you intentionally overcharge people, and lie to them about what they need fixed?

LOL

I over-bid, not over-charge. All my prices are contracted after I've made a bid. If there is a customer I don't feel comfortable working for (seems too picky or flippant) I add work to the bid so they can find a better price elsewhere.

WTF do you know about business anyway? Cubicle warriors like you haven't clue one about how business works.


BTW

here's the proof there was no language to prohit illegals
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/27/health.care.immigrants/

tinfoil
09-10-2009, 05:04 PM
Do you support more stringent government regulation to prevent fraud by contractors?

YEP! I'm totally legal and I paid a bunch of fucking money to become licensed, bonded and insured, so fuck you!

Canceled2
09-10-2009, 05:31 PM
I've never heard of him before now. Interesting.

He's from your neck of the woods. A friend, also from those parts, told me about his reasoned positions after the election...

Cancel 2018. 3
09-10-2009, 06:43 PM
It covers "undocumented visitors" and "pregnancy reversal", so yeah. It covers illegal immigrants and abortions.

link

belme1201
09-10-2009, 10:56 PM
It covers "undocumented visitors" and "pregnancy reversal", so yeah. It covers illegal immigrants and abortions.

Source?
Doesn't the Hyde Amendment ban government money from being used for abortions in the US?

belme1201
09-10-2009, 11:07 PM
He's from your neck of the woods. A friend, also from those parts, told me about his reasoned positions after the election...




If you go to the link and read the comments and Buck's pitiful replies, It appears that it's Buck's pants that are "on fire".



Reasoned positions? Using the word of a famous local poster, "Rubbish!"

Canceled2
09-11-2009, 01:30 AM
If you go to the link and read the comments and Buck's pitiful replies, It appears that it's Buck's pants that are "on fire".



Reasoned positions? Using the word of a famous local poster, "Rubbish!"

Well, I should clarify; they are more reasoned than belme's.

Mott the Hoople
09-11-2009, 08:54 AM
http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090830/A_OPINION0611/908300306/-1/NEWSMAP

Obama lies
You didn't even read it, did you? If you did, then you certainly didn't understand it. Please point out to us where Obama lied.

tinfoil
09-11-2009, 06:26 PM
You didn't even read it, did you? If you did, then you certainly didn't understand it. Please point out to us where Obama lied.

I stand corrected. There is language which states it will not happen. I'm a little confused about the ammendment that got killed for being "unworkable". What's unworkable about enforcement of proof of citizenship?

Anyway, I WAS WRONG.

There is language that says illegals will not get benefits.

We all know how well enforcement goes. do I really have make a case that we already have illegals using fake or stolen SS#s?


Here's what cracks me up. People believe that illegals using fake and stolen SS#s are paying income tax. More likely, the employer knows they are illegal, and pays under the table or witholds but keeps the witholdings instead of sending it off to the IRS. Avoiding a paper trail with illegal employees would likely be motivation enough to expect employers to avoid sending the IRS money in the name of an illegal immigrant.

Hello IRS! Here's the address and name of the illegal guy I employ.

Does anyone have any numbers on how many illegal make contributions to SS?

tinfoil
09-11-2009, 06:28 PM
Is an address all you'll need to get healthcare subsidies?
Does anyone know?

uscitizen
09-11-2009, 06:39 PM
I stand corrected. There is language which states it will not happen. I'm a little confused about the ammendment that got killed for being "unworkable". What's unworkable about enforcement of proof of citizenship?

Anyway, I WAS WRONG.

There is language that says illegals will not get benefits.

We all know how well enforcement goes. do I really have make a case that we already have illegals using fake or stolen SS#s?


Here's what cracks me up. People believe that illegals using fake and stolen SS#s are paying income tax. More likely, the employer knows they are illegal, and pays under the table or witholds but keeps the witholdings instead of sending it off to the IRS. Avoiding a paper trail with illegal employees would likely be motivation enough to expect employers to avoid sending the IRS money in the name of an illegal immigrant.

Hello IRS! Here's the address and name of the illegal guy I employ.

Does anyone have any numbers on how many illegal make contributions to SS?

We need to make identity theft a major felony. It is not only a problem with illegals.

The health care bill should not address identity theft.

uscitizen
09-11-2009, 08:22 PM
It seems that some on the right want to muddle up the healthcare bill with illegal immigration control. Lets just keep it healthcare please. No tax cuts for GM or any pork hidden in ther to placate some group or corporate interests.

tinfoil
09-11-2009, 10:07 PM
We need to make identity theft a major felony. It is not only a problem with illegals.

The health care bill should not address identity theft.


It's part of it and it should not be left to sort itself out.

tinfoil
09-11-2009, 10:09 PM
It seems that some on the right want to muddle up the healthcare bill with illegal immigration control. Lets just keep it healthcare please. No tax cuts for GM or any pork hidden in ther to placate some group or corporate interests.
Wrong

Legitimate concern.
Stupid strawmen like you just threw up are the real problem. You're arrogant and think you've got it all figured out... like cash fo clunkers... idiots

uscitizen
09-11-2009, 10:10 PM
Wrong

Legitimate concern.
Stupid strawmen like you just threw up are the real problem. You're arrogant and think you've got it all figured out... like cash fo clunkers... idiots

cash for clunkers was my idea???

speaking of tossing out strawmen.
bwahahaha
strawman burns to ashes,
and your little dog too.

tinfoil
09-12-2009, 09:37 PM
cash for clunkers was my idea???

speaking of tossing out strawmen.
bwahahaha
strawman burns to ashes,
and your little dog too.

Cash for clunkers was poorly planned
That's the analogy we're shooting for here.

uscitizen
09-12-2009, 09:52 PM
Do you support more stringent government regulation to prevent fraud by contractors?

YEP! I'm totally legal and I paid a bunch of fucking money to become licensed, bonded and insured, so fuck you!

The govt just activated a illegal alien govt contractor database. All govt contractors and sub contractors must comply.

uscitizen
09-12-2009, 09:55 PM
Cash for clunkers was poorly planned
That's the analogy we're shooting for here.

The Iraq war was poorly planned.
Your point being?

Anyway, illegal aliens should be handled outside of the healthcare bill.
And identity theft/fraud needs to be a federal felony.
It would also cover many cases of voter fraud.
Reduce costs to credit card companies, etc.

Mott the Hoople
09-13-2009, 05:42 AM
Specific language to prevent fraudulent coverage of illegal immigrants is needed
Why? Because you're an irrational xenophobic bigot?

Mott the Hoople
09-13-2009, 05:46 AM
It covers "undocumented visitors" and "pregnancy reversal", so yeah. It covers illegal immigrants and abortions.Show me the specific langauge in the bill where it states exactly that. Otherwise your making a circular argument that can neither be proven or refuted. In other words your just making this argument to cover up your drinking problem.

tinfoil
09-13-2009, 08:11 AM
Why? Because you're an irrational xenophobic bigot?


LOL douchebag

Yeah, fraud doesn't matter.

Idiot

tinfoil
09-13-2009, 08:13 AM
Why? Because you're an irrational xenophobic bigot?

http://www.gao.gov/products/HEHS-98-30

there you go, asshole

belme1201
09-13-2009, 02:26 PM
http://www.gao.gov/products/HEHS-98-30

there you go, asshole



Yeh, let the damn kids starve.
(Their parents must be here working for someone for shit money, no? But since that's for profit it's ok, and it's the employees' fault of course.)

Annie
09-13-2009, 03:04 PM
Show me the specific langauge in the bill where it states exactly that. Otherwise your making a circular argument that can neither be proven or refuted. In other words your just making this argument to cover up your drinking problem.

Wow, just wow. Now you are making the argument that unless specific language allows it's prohibited? Do you take the American people for fools? Oh yeah, you would.

uscitizen
09-13-2009, 07:00 PM
How many billions have we spent for medical care of Iraqi and Afgan people in recent years?

But we cannot care for our own people?

tinfoil
09-13-2009, 09:04 PM
Yeh, let the damn kids starve.
(Their parents must be here working for someone for shit money, no? But since that's for profit it's ok, and it's the employees' fault of course.)

what the fuck?

The analogy we were looking for here is thus:

Illegal immigrant-> Sneak into country
Illegal immigrant-> Have child(US citizen!!!)
Illegal immigrant Collect health insurance for child (US citizen!!!)
Illegal immigrant Collect health insurance for Illegal immigrant (Caregiver for US citizen!!!)



Do you see how it will work?

tinfoil
09-13-2009, 09:06 PM
WTF is with you folks? You just don't see the point?

We have enough god damn fraud alrady

uscitizen
09-13-2009, 09:07 PM
WTF is with you folks? You just don't see the point?

We have enough god damn fraud alrady

It is not fraud if it is a US citizen.

But don't you see.
Illegals sneak in.
Take land from indians.
Start own country and declare themselves US citizens.
Indians no longer citizens and are herded into reservations where no on else wants to go.

tinfoil
09-13-2009, 09:08 PM
Why? Because you're an irrational xenophobic bigot?


why don't you detail what's irrational?

tinfoil
09-13-2009, 09:11 PM
It is not fraud if it is a US citizen.

being here illegally before giving birth was what I was refering to. I was clear about us citizens. What's with the strawmen? My points too good for real arguments?

Call me racist now, it's missing from bottom of the thread

uscitizen
09-13-2009, 09:14 PM
Strawman? I was just following your lead about US citizens being entitled to all the benefits that all US citizens are.
It is not fraud for a US citizen to claim their benefits.

Mott the Hoople
09-14-2009, 04:36 AM
http://www.gao.gov/products/HEHS-98-30

there you go, assholeGee, last I heard we were talking about HB3200.

Mott the Hoople
09-14-2009, 04:40 AM
Wow, just wow. Now you are making the argument that unless specific language allows it's prohibited? Do you take the American people for fools? Oh yeah, you would.So what your telling me then, is that since HR2454 The American Clean Energy and Security Act doesn't have specific language prohibiting slavery that it is in fact providing slaves for Energy Companies? (Seem silly? Just using your logic).

tinfoil
09-14-2009, 07:03 AM
Strawman? I was just following your lead about US citizens being entitled to all the benefits that all US citizens are.
It is not fraud for a US citizen to claim their benefits.


See, you're too stupid to follow the argument. I'm not wasting my time trying to explain how you, first, don't get it to begin with, and second, you then make an argument which I did not make and claim I did.

stupid.

tinfoil
09-14-2009, 07:05 AM
Gee, last I heard we were talking about HB3200.

Gee I was talking about illegals getting benefits by having chilcren here.

DamnYankee
09-14-2009, 07:11 AM
WTF is with you folks? You just don't see the point?

We have enough god damn fraud alrady
Democrats want more fraud. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?