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View Full Version : Skiing in Virginia, August 29, 2009



DamnYankee
09-07-2009, 07:05 PM
http://www.liberty.edu/snowflex/index.cfm?PID=19490

:clink:

DamnYankee
09-07-2009, 07:07 PM
http://www.liberty.edu/archives/public/photos/grand_opening_pro2.jpg

Socrtease
09-13-2009, 08:59 AM
It's not skiing if the mountain is not at least 12,000 feet tall.

DamnYankee
09-13-2009, 09:30 AM
Whenever I run into a ski snob I ask him about his NASTAR handicap; what's yours? :)

Beefy
09-13-2009, 07:39 PM
http://www.liberty.edu/snowflex/index.cfm?PID=19490

:clink:

Be careful. You'll blend into the snow in your white sheets, other skiers may not see you.

DamnYankee
09-13-2009, 07:50 PM
Be careful. You'll blend into the snow in your white sheets, other skiers may not see you. I wear red or black when I ski.

Socrtease
09-13-2009, 10:23 PM
Whenever I run into a ski snob I ask him about his NASTAR handicap; what's yours? :)I don't race, I ski. I have skied double diamonds in Taos, Santa Fe, Purgatory, Snow Bird, Wolf Creek and a dozen other places. I have also skied in Killington and Stowe in VT, and while stationed in Germany I skied Kitzbuhl and Galtuer in Austria, the Zugspitz in Germany, Alpe d'Huez in France and St. Moritz in Switzerland. Rocky Mountain skiing is far superior to Eastern US skiing. My ex girl friend from Germany was floored by the quality of skiing available in New Mexico alone and if we had tine I would have blown her mind with Colorado.

DamnYankee
09-14-2009, 04:43 AM
I don't race, I ski. I have skied double diamonds in Taos, Santa Fe, Purgatory, Snow Bird, Wolf Creek and a dozen other places. I have also skied in Killington and Stowe in VT, and while stationed in Germany I skied Kitzbuhl and Galtuer in Austria, the Zugspitz in Germany, Alpe d'Huez in France and St. Moritz in Switzerland. Rocky Mountain skiing is far superior to Eastern US skiing. My ex girl friend from Germany was floored by the quality of skiing available in New Mexico alone and if we had tine I would have blown her mind with Colorado.
That's like saying that a Jaguar is a nicer car than a Chevy. Just because you've paid the big bucks doesn't make you a better driver. Folks who golf don't necessarily compete either, but they still have a yardstick to measure their proficiency amongst others. In skiing we have NASTAR, and they have courses set up in many resorts throughout the US, and it will cost you five bucks and five minutes to get handicapped. So until you're willing to fess up with an actual number that defines your level of expertise, I'll simply assume that you like to travel, spend money, and make an occasional slow run down some blue groomers. :)

PostmodernProphet
09-14-2009, 05:34 AM
I had hot chocolate next to a fireplace once....

Damocles
09-14-2009, 12:01 PM
I ski because it is what I do, not because I am competitive. People who think that NASTAR ranking means they have skied in the best of slopes simply haven't been to Keystone, or Taos Ski Valley, or Snowbird, or Alta, or Arapahoe Basin, etc. It isn't their fault that they haven't skied on the best slopes, it is their fault that they do not listen to those who have skied those slopes as well as the "best" Vermont has to offer and have found Vermont wanting.

Socrtease
09-14-2009, 12:13 PM
I ski because it is what I do, not because I am competitive. People who think that NASTAR ranking means they have skied in the best of slopes simply haven't been to Keystone, or Taos Ski Valley, or Snowbird, or Alta, or Arapahoe Basin, etc. It isn't their fault that they haven't skied on the best slopes, it is their fault that they do not listen to those who have skied those slopes as well as the "best" Vermont has to offer and have found Vermont wanting.No dude you and I just like to travel and spend money. But just for comparison, here is a trail map for Taos. Southerman you post a trail map of one of those east coast Ski Areas and we can all compare.
http://www.skitown.com/gfx/trailmaps/nm10tm01p.jpg

Socrtease
09-14-2009, 12:31 PM
That's like saying that a Jaguar is a nicer car than a Chevy. Just because you've paid the big bucks doesn't make you a better driver. Folks who golf don't necessarily compete either, but they still have a yardstick to measure their proficiency amongst others. In skiing we have NASTAR, and they have courses set up in many resorts throughout the US, and it will cost you five bucks and five minutes to get handicapped. So until you're willing to fess up with an actual number that defines your level of expertise, I'll simply assume that you like to travel, spend money, and make an occasional slow run down some blue groomers. :)I took up golf late in life when I started College in 92. I have never figured a handicap. Not even sure if I know off hand how to go about it. I go out with 3 other guys at least once a month and we play a dollar a hole. We drink beer, smoke cigars and have a good time. That is how I ski too, though I have skied since 1975 and am, in the scheme of things better at that. I actually lived in Ruidoso NM in 5th grade and every wednesday was ski day during the season. We would go up to Sierra Blanca, eat lunch and ski half day. Then my mom moved to Santa Fe NM and I would go skiing there 8-10 times a year and we would also go to Taos, or Purgatory or Wolf Creek. I don't go as much any more but still go 4 times a year. I have basically skied for the last 34 years of my life, so I am not the occasional blue run skier.

Socrtease
09-14-2009, 12:37 PM
And Killington.

http://www.killington.com/images/08-09_Trail_Guide.jpg

DamnYankee
09-14-2009, 01:12 PM
I ski because it is what I do, not because I am competitive. People who think that NASTAR ranking means they have skied in the best of slopes simply haven't been to Keystone, or Taos Ski Valley, or Snowbird, or Alta, or Arapahoe Basin, etc. It isn't their fault that they haven't skied on the best slopes, it is their fault that they do not listen to those who have skied those slopes as well as the "best" Vermont has to offer and have found Vermont wanting. No one that I know has ever equated NASTAR racing with "best slopes"; in fact its done on intermediate level terrain. Its simply a way to compare skiers, apples to apples. And its a good way to shut up ski snobs who insist that skiing on anything less than 12,000 feet elevation ain't skiing.

DamnYankee
09-14-2009, 01:35 PM
No dude you and I just like to travel and spend money. But just for comparison, here is a trail map for Taos. Southerman you post a trail map of one of those east coast Ski Areas and we can all compare.
... Dude we're not comparing some place you've been with some place I've been but your ability to get down it with speed and grace. At my local hill I can get 25,000 verts in a day then be back home in time for dinner. Since it is so close I'm there every weekend for four months of the year, that is when we're not racing at the USSA level at other local venues. I know all the coaches there and have trained with three former Olympians as well as several nationally ranked skiers. Last year I started in a third league and our team picked up a sponsor.

For two of the last three years I've taken the family to the big resorts for spring break. We've been to Breck, A-Basin, Keystone, Stowe and Smuggler's Notch. This next spring we're going to Squaw Valley. My son and I have met up with local instructors and they routinely tell us that we're skiing way above any level that they can train us. We love telling folks that our home hill is in North Carolina, watch them smirk with some wise-ass comment like you did. We've had several do some great wipe-outs trying to keep up with us.

ZappasGuitar
09-14-2009, 01:41 PM
http://www.liberty.edu/snowflex/index.cfm?PID=19490

:clink:

Oh PLEASE!?!

The the vert drop of my mother-in-law's driveway is steeper than this "hill". Only Someone who's never been west of the Mighty Miss thinks that is "skiing".

DamnYankee
09-14-2009, 01:48 PM
Oh PLEASE!?!

The the vert drop of my mother-in-law's driveway is steeper than this "hill". Only Someone who's never been west of the Mighty Miss thinks that is "skiing". Oh lookie another ski snob. What's your handicap? :)

ZappasGuitar
09-14-2009, 02:05 PM
Oh lookie another ski snob. What's your handicap? :)

What's my handicap?

I've skied real mountains and find pimples covered with fake snow to be a joke?

Seriously, I knock it, but I'd be there if it was the only place I had to go, and I imagine it's gentle slope might make learning easier for beginners.

I was checking out the pix from the hill, and I was wondering how bad of a case of "road rash" would you get if you fell down while skiing on that fake stuff?

Damocles
09-14-2009, 02:07 PM
No one that I know has ever equated NASTAR racing with "best slopes"; in fact its done on intermediate level terrain. Its simply a way to compare skiers, apples to apples. And its a good way to shut up ski snobs who insist that skiing on anything less than 12,000 feet elevation ain't skiing.
Except it isn't. Those people are pointing out that the best slopes are all in places that are well above that elevation. You are trying to "prove" that your NASTAR ranking elevates your ski area above those that are far superior. Just an FYI, it doesn't.

Now take your supposed NASTAR handicap and get out on some real slopes for once.

DamnYankee
09-14-2009, 02:11 PM
What's my handicap?

I've skied real mountains and find pimples covered with fake snow to be a joke?

Seriously, I knock it, but I'd be there if it was the only place I had to go, and I imagine it's gentle slope might make learning easier for beginners.

I was checking out the pix from the hill, and I was wondering how bad of a case of "road rash" would you get if you fell down while skiing on that fake stuff? I haven't skied it- yet. Since its only a three hour car ride and open during months when real skiing ain't happening I can see it as a place to test new gear or simply to keep the ski legs from getting too rusty. If you're worried about road rash perhaps you better stick to the beginner area or just stay home. *shrug*

DamnYankee
09-14-2009, 02:21 PM
Except it isn't. Those people are pointing out that the best slopes are all in places that are well above that elevation. You are trying to "prove" that your NASTAR ranking elevates your ski area above those that are far superior. Just an FYI, it doesn't.

Now take your supposed NASTAR handicap and get out on some real slopes for once.Bullshit. The only thing that I'm interested in proving, and quite clearly, is that the hill does not make the skier. In fact Buck Hill, MN, with a vertical drop of 309 ft, has developed a huge number of champion skiers, including three Olympians.

ZappasGuitar
09-14-2009, 02:27 PM
I haven't skied it- yet. Since its only a three hour car ride and open during months when real skiing ain't happening I can see it as a place to test new gear or simply to keep the ski legs from getting too rusty. If you're worried about road rash perhaps you better stick to the beginner area or just stay home. *shrug*

Now that I think about it, road rash probably isn't a problem. No one probably attains enough speed sliding down the "hill" to suffer any.

Depending on the weather in Colo, one can get in some fantastic skiing until late May or early June, so I'll leave the little bunny hill skiing to you and your fellow East Coasters. I found other activities to occupy my time for the three or four months a year Colorado doesn't have enough snow for skiing.

charver
09-14-2009, 02:28 PM
Ooooh hark at Franz Klammers and Jean-Claude Killys comparing the size of their hillocks.

You ladies can shove your poncy handicaps and your big gay mountains up your dirty great super-G spots.

I'm telling you now. You haven't lived until you've been down here.
http://www.loweswatercam.co.uk/06072314.jpg

using nothing but one of these
http://www.moonbattery.com/plastic-bag.jpg

Skiers? I shit 'em.

ZappasGuitar
09-14-2009, 02:29 PM
Bullshit. The only thing that I'm interested in proving, and quite clearly, is that the hill does not make the skier. In fact Buck Hill, MN, with a vertical drop of 309 ft, has developed a huge number of champion skiers, including three Olympians.

They STARTED there, and then went on to more challenging hills as their skills increased. Nobody trains for the Olympics on a hill w/309 ft of vertical drop.

DamnYankee
09-14-2009, 02:30 PM
Now that I think about it, road rash probably isn't a problem. No one probably attains enough speed sliding down the "hill" to suffer any.

Depending on the weather in Colo, one can get in some fantastic skiing until late May or early June, so I'll leave the little bunny hill skiing to you and your fellow East Coasters. I found other activities to occupy my time for the three or four months a year Colorado doesn't have enough snow for skiing. So with 8 or 9 months a year on some of the worlds great ski areas you must have developed some awesome abilities. What's your NASTAR handicap? Are you in the Gold division, or did they elevate you to Platinum?

Cancel5
09-14-2009, 02:35 PM
They STARTED there, and then went on to more challenging hills as their skills increased. Nobody trains for the Olympics on a hill w/309 ft of vertical drop.
http://www.alyeskaresort.com/files/Alyeska/atrailmap_hires.pdf

Alyeska second steepest slope in USA, 300 vertical drop! My son says the trails in Colorado are nice and slow!

ZappasGuitar
09-14-2009, 02:43 PM
So with 8 or 9 months a year on some of the worlds great ski areas you must have developed some awesome abilities. What's your NASTAR handicap? Are you in the Gold division, or did they elevate you to Platinum?

I'm sure I wouldn't qualify for either division. Never got any better than above average. I can barely get down a black diamond run without stopping numerous times to choose my line.

ZappasGuitar
09-14-2009, 02:45 PM
So with 8 or 9 months a year on some of the worlds great ski areas you must have developed some awesome abilities. What's your NASTAR handicap? Are you in the Gold division, or did they elevate you to Platinum?

Now THIS is real skiing.

http://www.silvertonmountain.com/page/home

DamnYankee
09-14-2009, 02:46 PM
http://www.alyeskaresort.com/files/Alyeska/atrailmap_hires.pdf

Alyeska second steepest slope in USA, 300 vertical drop! My son says the trails in Colorado are nice and slow!

Try skiing this on hard pack. Most Colorado skiers wouldn't dare! Last year's USSA championships were on Tom Terrific.


...the only double black diamond south of Shay’s Revenge. To prevent newbees from accidentally venturing onto this trail, the run was fully roped off. I actually had to ski through a gate with a big “Experts Only” sign over it to access the trail. I peered over the lip of the run and looked down. Before me stood a steep, 60 percent drop with almost no recovery zone at the bottom. To exit the trail, you make a quick left turn at the bottom onto Switchback or else you eat wood. Two rather pale looking boarders standing next to me, said, “You first dude!” Never one to ignore a challenge, I pushed off. I cut some pretty conservative first turns and then let it rip at the end. This proved to be a mistake because there is small lip at the end which launched me into the air. I had to cut a very hard turn at the end to avoid hitting the line of trees at the bottom.

I skied Whoopdedoo several more times and then headed for Tom Terrific and Boulder Dash. These two black trails took a slightly less steep path down the mountain, but were nice and narrow, limiting your options and actually making for tougher skiing than the wider Whoopdedoo. True to Boulder Dash’s name, the trail actually skirts around some boulders, giving it an interesting alpine flavor...
http://www.dcski.com/articles/view_article.php?article_id=701&mode=headlines

DamnYankee
09-14-2009, 02:48 PM
Now THIS is real skiing.

http://www.silvertonmountain.com/page/home
Real skiing is where you are with two skinny boards strapped on.

http://www.silvertonmountain.com/uploads/images/home_48f6dd30c7fda.jpg

Try skiing that slope on good ol' Eastern hard pack, with big patches of blue ice.

WinterBorn
09-14-2009, 06:02 PM
Funny, you call people ski snobs for doing just what you are doing.

I skied VT and had a great time. But I have no illusions that I was at the best place to ski.

DamnYankee
09-14-2009, 06:07 PM
How many times did you face-plant? Those over the tips face plants as viewed from the chair lift are truly awesome.

The difference, of course, is that you can't buy expertise; you have to earn it.

WinterBorn
09-14-2009, 06:15 PM
How many times did you face-plant? Those over the tips face plants as viewed from the chair lift are truly awesome.

The difference, of course, is that you can't buy expertise; you have to earn it.

I had fun. I face-planted once and still had fun. I have no intention of spending the time or effort to become an expert on downhill skiing. If I had my choice I would cross-country ski more often. But considering the snowfall in Alabama is pitiful at best, I'll stick to other hobbies and interests.

DamnYankee
09-14-2009, 06:21 PM
I had fun. I face-planted once and still had fun. I have no intention of spending the time or effort to become an expert on downhill skiing. If I had my choice I would cross-country ski more often. But considering the snowfall in Alabama is pitiful at best, I'll stick to other hobbies and interests.
That's the point- it's a sport that takes a tremendous amount of dedication to get it right. Not at all like buying an airplane ticket and going to St. Moritz, then snobbishly reporting that anything else isn't really skiing.

WinterBorn
09-14-2009, 06:23 PM
That's the point- it's a sport that takes a tremendous amount of dedication to get it right. Not at all like buying an airplane ticket and going to St. Moritz, then snobbishly reporting that anything else isn't really skiing.

Except some who posted about the western skiing live out there.

Does someone saying "anything else isn't really skiing" changeyour enjoyment of the sport?

Minister of Truth
09-14-2009, 08:56 PM
Except some who posted about the western skiing live out there.

Does someone saying "anything else isn't really skiing" changeyour enjoyment of the sport?

Its something to laugh at or get offended by, depending on your personality...

DamnYankee
09-14-2009, 09:59 PM
Except some who posted about the western skiing live out there.

Does someone saying "anything else isn't really skiing" changeyour enjoyment of the sport? I simply ask them for their handicap for comparison to mine.

Socrtease
09-15-2009, 01:01 AM
That's the point- it's a sport that takes a tremendous amount of dedication to get it right. Not at all like buying an airplane ticket and going to St. Moritz, then snobbishly reporting that anything else isn't really skiing.Actually I took the train from Augsburg Germany to St. Moritz, drove to Kitzbuhl and the Zugspitz. All while a corporal in the US Army. Matter of fact the ONLY place I have ever purchased a plane ticket to go skiing was Utah. Snowbird is, in my opinion one of the best ski areas anywhere. 500+ inches of dry powder snow a year. I don't anyone that thinks skiing blue ice is good skiing.

ZappasGuitar
09-15-2009, 11:45 AM
Actually I took the train from Augsburg Germany to St. Moritz, drove to Kitzbuhl and the Zugspitz. All while a corporal in the US Army. Matter of fact the ONLY place I have ever purchased a plane ticket to go skiing was Utah. Snowbird is, in my opinion one of the best ski areas anywhere. 500+ inches of dry powder snow a year. I don't anyone that thinks skiing blue ice is good skiing.

Alta, Snowbird and the rest in Utah are becoming like Aspen and Vail were 25 years ago.

Before I moved to "hell", a.k.a. East Texas, I loved the smaller places like Wolf Creek, Purgatory, Crested Butte,Steamboat Springs, etc.

I spent a year in Oregon in the shadow of Mt Hood and it sounds like the skiing SM is describing is what they had up there. Totally frozen sheets of ice in the morning and when the sun finally hits the "snow" it starts melting and turns the whole hill into one giant "slushie"

Damocles
09-15-2009, 12:19 PM
Alta, Snowbird and the rest in Utah are becoming like Aspen and Vail were 25 years ago.

Before I moved to "hell", a.k.a. East Texas, I loved the smaller places like Wolf Creek, Purgatory, Crested Butte,Steamboat Springs, etc.

I spent a year in Oregon in the shadow of Mt Hood and it sounds like the skiing SM is describing is what they had up there. Totally frozen sheets of ice in the morning and when the sun finally hits the "snow" it starts melting and turns the whole hill into one giant "slushie"
Telluride...

ZappasGuitar
09-15-2009, 12:24 PM
Telluride...

Oh HELL yeah! Went there many times! I always loved being able to ski right off the mountain into town!

DamnYankee
09-15-2009, 08:11 PM
Actually I took the train from Augsburg Germany to St. Moritz, drove to Kitzbuhl and the Zugspitz. All while a corporal in the US Army. Matter of fact the ONLY place I have ever purchased a plane ticket to go skiing was Utah. Snowbird is, in my opinion one of the best ski areas anywhere. 500+ inches of dry powder snow a year. I don't anyone that thinks skiing blue ice is good skiing. You obviously couldn't ski blue ice without shitting your pants full and wiping out.

Damocles
09-15-2009, 08:28 PM
You obviously couldn't ski blue ice without shitting your pants full and wiping out.
Blue ice is here every early season, we ski it fine. In CO all conditions that can exist do. It's just better most of the time. Settling for constant blue ice is what you do when you don't know any better.

You can go down one mountain and go from powder to pack to ice all in one run. Scraping up your wax job all the time is nothing to be proud of.

DamnYankee
09-15-2009, 08:32 PM
Blue ice is here every early season, we ski it fine. In CO all conditions that can exist do. It's just better most of the time. Settling for constant blue ice is what you do when you don't know any better.

You can go down one mountain and go from powder to pack to ice all in one run. Scraping up your wax job all the time is nothing to be proud of.
Why would you "scrape your wax job"? You should be on your edges all the time.

Damocles
09-15-2009, 08:36 PM
Why would you "scrape your wax job"? You should be on your edges all the time.
Unless you are bowlegged you are turning and the base of the ski will be on the ice, being proud of skiing all the time in crappy conditions is like somebody being proud of going to a bad school. There really isn't anything to be proud of. You really do need to come out here and take a trip down some real runs. Scraping off your edge and wax job isn't something you should be running over with pride about.

"Our runs suck more, and you couldn't handle that..."

Rubbish.

DamnYankee
09-15-2009, 08:41 PM
Unless you are bowlegged you are turning and the base of the ski will be on the ice, being proud of skiing all the time in crappy conditions is like somebody being proud of going to a bad school. There really isn't anything to be proud of. You really do need to come out here and take a trip down some real runs.

"Our runs suck more, and you couldn't handle that..."

Rubbish. You should always be turning when you're skiing, unless you're on flats. And skis shoulder width apart, which may be bowlegged for some I suppose. I always look for the crappiest snow to make hard turns, because it makes me more prepared for race events when the courses develop ruts as big as Volkswagons.

zoombwaz
09-18-2009, 12:30 PM
I don't race, I ski. I have skied double diamonds in Taos, Santa Fe, Purgatory, Snow Bird, Wolf Creek and a dozen other places. I have also skied in Killington and Stowe in VT, and while stationed in Germany I skied Kitzbuhl and Galtuer in Austria, the Zugspitz in Germany, Alpe d'Huez in France and St. Moritz in Switzerland. Rocky Mountain skiing is far superior to Eastern US skiing. My ex girl friend from Germany was floored by the quality of skiing available in New Mexico alone and if we had tine I would have blown her mind with Colorado.

I've skied Purgatory and Wolf Creek, the former in a crappy season where the lower slopes were garbage, but the upper slopes were great, and the latter in a season with so much snow, the bottom chair lift began in a snowcat groomed trench. It's a little unnerving to be sitting in the lift chair and have people skiing above you. I kept waiting for someone to lose it and come crashing and/or cartwheeling through the drift fence, over the edge and into my lap. Poles first. My tripto Purgatory was with my youngest brother Pete, who is one of those sick people who does double diamonds on 205 cm XC skis (granted, they're fiberglass w/steel edges, cable bindings, and heel locators), cutting Telemark turns all the way down. He's amazing to watch, although he occasionally loses his mind and does things like mount three-pin bindings on a pair of Head competition GS skis, and take this potentially fatal combo up to Arapahoe Basin for a shake-down cruise (his reasoning being that a smaller feeder area like A Basin would significantly lower the odds of him kissing a tree. And dying. Great.) I went with him to act as his lifeguard, and near the bottom on his second barely-in-control run, i came around a curve to see him lose it completely and take a high-speed header into a snow drift.. He went in past his knees, and damn near vanished. His first words when I pulled him out of the drift with the help of a couple of the Ski Patrol (one national, one pro) were, "Jesus Christ! I was in so deep it was actually dark. I gotta get these things off before i die." At that point both Ski Patrol members suddenly had their "What's Wrong With This Picture?" moment. National said, "Holy Shit." Pro inquired after his sanity, and both told him to walk down and put his death traps away for good. He asked if he could just give them to the first Texan he saw. To their credit, they both said no, but there was a noticeable pause before they answered.

Pete went to school at Western State in Gunnison, CO (aka Wasted State and Gunny Sack, respectively), so I had a couple of trips to Crested Butte, which I loved, even the white-out halfway down the mountain my first afternoon skiing there. It was snowing and blowing like hell, and all of a sudden everything went white. Aarrgh. While I was frantically trying to recall the terrain from my first run down that slope, there was suddenly nothing under my skis. In unison, we said the last words heard on nearly every cockpit voice recorder after an airliner crashes: "Oh, shit." Immediately, we dropped out of the cloud of blowing snow, and Pete landed gracefully with a perfect Telemark to the center of the gully (goddamn showoff). In contrast, I sat down hard on the tails of my skis, but managed to bounce back up after Pete said, "you better get your ass down here with me, unless you want to wear all those skiers behind us." He didn't have to tell me twice. We spent the next 5 minutes or so watching bodies drop out of the cloud and into the gully, immediately telling them to join us toute de suite, after which Pete held up an imaginary sign and called out the scores for their landings. The more disastrous the crash, the better the score, but nothing over a 9.7 from Pete. Most of the skiers were friends of his from school, and told me he had a rep as a tough judge (WTF? They score crashes here on a regular basis? No wonder they call the place
Wasted State) After Pete gave a 9.7 to a spectacular, cartwheeling yard sale by one of his friends that drew a 10.0 from the others, the guy said, "Jesus Christ, Pete! What do I have to do to get a 10 out of you?"

"Die."

Guffaws from the crowd. Their parents must be so proud. Pete graduated cum laude. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

DamnYankee
09-18-2009, 01:43 PM
My best wipe-out was hitting a GS gate perfectly centered with a ski tip. The other ski and me kept going but the tail of the first came up to about 90 degrees before its binding let loose. This resulting spring energy coupled with forward kinetic energy caused it to spin in a vertical plane while passing me on our way down the fall line. It hit the flag in front of me and continued to spin until fully entangled, and I parked my ass just downhill.

zoombwaz
09-19-2009, 05:42 AM
My best wipe-out was hitting a GS gate perfectly centered with a ski tip. The other ski and me kept going but the tail of the first came up to about 90 degrees before its binding let loose. This resulting spring energy coupled with forward kinetic energy caused it to spin in a vertical plane while passing me on our way down the fall line. It hit the flag in front of me and continued to spin until fully entangled, and I parked my ass just downhill.


Not fun. I learned to ski in the hills of VA, MD, and PA, and there is something to be said for the skill level attained when the definition of a black diamond is short, nearly vertical, and glare ice like Blue Knob in PA. Learning to carve your edges HARD isn't a matter of style, but survival. Both of my brothers have skied Telluride in CO, which has some of the gnarliest double diamonds in the US, and they agreed that learning to carve a turn in glare ice gives one the confidence to step off the edge on Stairstep, or The Plunge, both of which end on the main drag in Telluride, so if you crash and burn, there are plenty of witnesses. I,ve never skied a double diamond, because while both brothers spent their peak "blowing off class to play in the snow" years skiing near their schools (Wasted State for Pete, and Colorado for Steve), I went to college in Iowa (what the hell was I thinking, picking a school for academics instead of the number of nearby ski areas?)

My favorite place to ski in Colorado is Shrine Pass, which isn't a ski area but a road, which starts at the summit of Vail Pass, goes up steeply with numerous switchbacks for about three miles then gradually downhill 8.5 milesto the town of Red Cliff. This road never gets the snow plowed, and is impassable to cars by Thanksgiving most years. Then it becomes one of the best XC ski runs in CO. You leave at the crack of dawn in two cars, because you need to leave one car in Red Cliff, then pile into the other car and drive to Vail Pass Summit. The three miles up is a real grunt, because it snows too often to establish a trail, so you have to take turns breaking trail hrough knee deep snow (of course in Jan and Feb that knee deep snow is "champagne powder," but it's still skiing up a steep goddamn mountain road. Then you get to the summit of Shrine Pass and break for lunch, surrouned by 14,000 peaks. Then comes the reason you skied*up the pass: the ski down, but unlike most ski-mountaineering (aka timber bashing), you aren't skiing back down the way you came up, but have 8 1/2 miles of downhill powder skiing. There are a couple of short, hairy, steep runs about 1/4 to 1/2 mile each, which serve to remind you that carving turns on XC skis is largely a matter of telekinesis, but for the most part it's a gradual down hill slope, such that you get about an 8'-10' glide on each stride, with very little expenditure of energy. AND Red Cliff has a great bar with some of the best chili I've ever had.

Hell of a way to spend a day.

DamnYankee
09-20-2009, 07:13 PM
That sounds like quite a XC run. I started into that when I lived in upstate NY, as we could ski right out the back door and across miles of rolling farmland. There was a public XC area with groomed trails about 30 minutes south of Syracuse they we used to visit. It had marked trails in green, blue and black, and a central lodge with hot chocolate and snacks. This was all tracked runs and the trail named "Kamikaze" had a fairly steep run in tracks. Not possible to do any speed control or turns to slow you down.

I've never done telemark or anything like that. I always say that I would like to try it but alpine is just too much damn fun.

zoombwaz
09-23-2009, 05:04 AM
That sounds like quite a XC run. I started into that when I lived in upstate NY, as we could ski right out the back door and across miles of rolling farmland. There was a public XC area with groomed trails about 30 minutes south of Syracuse they we used to visit. It had marked trails in green, blue and black, and a central lodge with hot chocolate and snacks. This was all tracked runs and the trail named "Kamikaze" had a fairly steep run in tracks. Not possible to do any speed control or turns to slow you down.

I've never done telemark or anything like that. I always say that I would like to try it but alpine is just too much damn fun.



I never got the hang of stringing together a series of Telemark turns, either, for pretty much the same reason as you gave (now i can't do either XC or alpine skiing...bummer). Still, my brothers and I skied every weekend in CO for a few years, and spent exactly squat, since we were broke and were timber bashing for free on our skinny sticks in the national forests...lots of jumping off cornices, followed by crashing and burning on the landings, spending the night in snow caves we would dig or in igloos built by my brother Steve (who is damn good at it and fast as hell) or the ultimate, doing New Year's Eve in an old miner's hut (there were several you could XC ski up to, with working wood stoves, firewood, and plywood bunks. The rule was that anybody who showed up was welcome, since there was really no way to reserve most of the huts. Fortunately, there was a fairly limited number of people for whom this sounded like fun, and as long ss you avoided the close-in and better-known places like the Barnard Hut, you would still inevitably spend New Year's with folks you had never met before, but rarely so many that the hut would be crowded. Very cool way to see the old year out, but if you thought turning on XC skis was tough in the best of conditions, try doing it armed with a death-dealing hangover and a pack on your back. That's when you discover that when rocketing down a sun-packed southern slope into a permanently shaded northern slope on skinny sticks, there is no way in hell you can decelerate enough to avoid a vicious face-plant when you cross the line into the unpacked snow of the shaded slope and REALLY decelerate, like instantly, and it feels like God/Allah/Shiva/(insert alternate Supreme Being here) puts his hand b between your shoulder blades and jams your face into the snow, with your ski tips next to your ears.

Talk about your rude awakening.

DamnYankee
09-23-2009, 07:39 AM
I used to do a lot of backpacking on foot during the spring and fall, never winter, and always in New Hampshire or western Massachusetts. My brother was seven years older and was never around, so I had to rely on friends, and you really have to know someone well to be able to pack with them.

One weekend during my college days I was invited by a high school friend- for this story I'll call him "Ralph"- and two of his buddies to go hiking in the southwest corner of Massachusetts. It was a nice hike, about 4 or 5 miles, and we had paid $2 to the Ranger at the trail head to reserve an old camp shack near the summit. We got up there around 5 pm and cleaned out the mice shit and set up camp.

About an hour later another groups walks in expecting to use the shack. There were two high school boys, two high school girls and their chaperons from a church group. Did they reserve it?- 'No". Did they have tent?- "Some." We made an agreement where the girls could stay in one section of the shack partitioned off by a tarp while the boys would cobble up a tent and stay in the woods. They were decent folk and that was that.

About 3 hours after dark we're all starting to call it a night when we hear this crashing noise down the trail followed by voices and all sorts of commotion. It's a group of about ten or so and they too are expecting to use the shack that we had reserved. These were western Massachusetts local "yahoos" with all the fixin's: Boom box powered by a car battery, axes to cut firewood, jugs of gasoline to start fires with green and wet wood, plastic tarps and clothesline rope for tents, cans of Dinty Moore, loaves of white bread, and a half keg of beer (dragged up on a hand truck) to wash it all down.

After their initial disappointment of not getting to stay in "their" shack we got along pretty well with them. They cut down trees and lit up a huge fire and set up a big camp all around it. There was of course more beer than we all could drink in a day and not that much time. I had two beers and went to sleep on a top bunk, not able to doze off due to the music and noise outside.

Ralph got himself wasted and apparently got rude on one of the girls from the local group. Her brother or boyfriend (trying to sleep at the time, I wasn't paying much attention) then apparently told him off and pushed him around. Old Ralph, being ever the coward and now drunk, went off on a string of curses on the guy and some of his friends. They all laughed at him which only accelerated his anger.

When he came into the shack later he was tossing shit around and sat/ fell down on top of one of the girls and started a big commotion. I told him to get his ass off the floor, shut the fuck up and go to bed. He came after me with a sheath knife.

I had both arms wrapped up inside the sleeping bag so I balled up and kicked my legs at him. I guess I knocked him to the ground because the other two guys from our group then got on top of him and took his knife away and dragged him to the opposite end of the shack. Needless to say I didn't sleep at all that night, Ralph and I ended our friendship and I'll never stay in a place like that again.

zoombwaz
09-28-2009, 10:53 AM
I used to do a lot of backpacking on foot during the spring and fall, never winter, and always in New Hampshire or western Massachusetts. My brother was seven years older and was never around, so I had to rely on friends, and you really have to know someone well to be able to pack with them.

One weekend during my college days I was invited by a high school friend- for this story I'll call him "Ralph"- and two of his buddies to go hiking in the southwest corner of Massachusetts. It was a nice hike, about 4 or 5 miles, and we had paid $2 to the Ranger at the trail head to reserve an old camp shack near the summit. We got up there around 5 pm and cleaned out the mice shit and set up camp.

About an hour later another groups walks in expecting to use the shack. There were two high school boys, two high school girls and their chaperons from a church group. Did they reserve it?- 'No". Did they have tent?- "Some." We made an agreement where the girls could stay in one section of the shack partitioned off by a tarp while the boys would cobble up a tent and stay in the woods. They were decent folk and that was that.

About 3 hours after dark we're all starting to call it a night when we hear this crashing noise down the trail followed by voices and all sorts of commotion. It's a group of about ten or so and they too are expecting to use the shack that we had reserved. These were western Massachusetts local "yahoos" with all the fixin's: Boom box powered by a car battery, axes to cut firewood, jugs of gasoline to start fires with green and wet wood, plastic tarps and clothesline rope for tents, cans of Dinty Moore, loaves of white bread, and a half keg of beer (dragged up on a hand truck) to wash it all down.

After their initial disappointment of not getting to stay in "their" shack we got along pretty well with them. They cut down trees and lit up a huge fire and set up a big camp all around it. There was of course more beer than we all could drink in a day and not that much time. I had two beers and went to sleep on a top bunk, not able to doze off due to the music and noise outside.

Ralph got himself wasted and apparently got rude on one of the girls from the local group. Her brother or boyfriend (trying to sleep at the time, I wasn't paying much attention) then apparently told him off and pushed him around. Old Ralph, being ever the coward and now drunk, went off on a string of curses on the guy and some of his friends. They all laughed at him which only accelerated his anger.

When he came into the shack later he was tossing shit around and sat/ fell down on top of one of the girls and started a big commotion. I told him to get his ass off the floor, shut the fuck up and go to bed. He came after me with a sheath knife.

I had both arms wrapped up inside the sleeping bag so I balled up and kicked my legs at him. I guess I knocked him to the ground because the other two guys from our group then got on top of him and took his knife away and dragged him to the opposite end of the shack. Needless to say I didn't sleep at all that night, Ralph and I ended our friendship and I'll never stay in a place like that again.

Holy shit. The worst I had to endure at one of our new years eve bashes, was an idiot who insisted he could cook a "gourmet meal" starting with freeze-dried food. He was quickly and soundly voted down by the assembled multitude, most of whom were seasoned "Downward Bound" veterans (not to be confused with Outward Bound). "Downward Bound" was an informal group founded in protest of the insufferable geeks of the "ultralight backpacking" persuasion, who used tissue-paper-thin packs, and would go as far as sawing the handle off a toothbrush to save a half-ounce of weight, and then boast about how little their load weighed. By contrast, we all used Expedition packs from Lowe Mountaineering, which were made of Cordura nylon (waterproof and virtually indestructible). Also weighed more empty than the ultralighter's packs fully loaded. And held twice as much, triple if you used the large detachable side pockets which were held in place by the load control straps. The beauty of the Lowe Expedition pack was its suspension system and its internal frame (actually two heavy aluminum stays that you carefully bent and curved to accomodate your height and build.

Now to the important shit: the typical Downward Bound expedition. It always involved rallying at the trailhead Friday evening after work, always involved backpacking in the dark, and usually started taking what little organizational form it ever achieved on Wednesday afternoon, where any member called any other, suggested a trail head, and a brief discussion was launched as to whether there was a) sufficient water at the top (ie, a lake) to warrant packing in the two inflatable boats for the traditional Saturday and Sunday morning "yacht races" (always), and b) would I be going or, more accurately, would my black lab, Jason, be in attendance. Jason was the biggest damn lab I have ever seen...160 lbs of solid muscle, a significant portion of which was located between his ears...and his own Cordura saddlebags, which I had sewn from a kit, then added a kid's daypack/bookbag on the web that went across his back. When Jason joined the expeditions, we were able to relieve the two boat packers and the guy carrying the two cases of beer (aluminum cans only) of the weight of some of their other equipment by spreading it around to the other expedition members, including Jason (especially Jason), making sure nothing edible went into his saddlebags (duh). I carried his dog food in the bottom of my pack, along with the frozen New York strips for Saturday morning's steak and eggs breakfast, which pretty much guaranteed the location of his nose throughout the hike, and where the nose is, the rest of the lab can't be far behind. The smell of steaks on an open fire in the morning is a great way to wake up any ultralighters nearby to the reality that their freeze-dried rations are crap. After a bracing breakfast of steaks, eggs, and hash browns (three guesses who carried the cast iron skillets), followed by yacht races, followed by boot-skiing down a glacier or snow field if one was available (but of course) {note: boot-skiing is a misnomer. The sport actually requires an old pair of Converse Chuck Taylor high tops with litle or no tread left, slung around your neck by the laces, while you hike up in your boots. At the top of the glacier, the boots and high tops are switched, and you step off onto the face of the glacier/snow field and slide down on your worn high tops, which, in the tradition of using French terms (why?) in describing mountaineering techniques and equipment, we called a flouffe, while falling on your ass and finishing the descent thusly was a rumpage, pronounced flue-fay and rum-pahj, respectively. But I digress.} After the morning and early afternoon's exertions, it's time to round up some long, straight sticks, lash them together at the top in classic teepee style, wrap the frame with ponchos and ground cloths, bake some rocks in a fire, push the hot rocks into the teepee with a forked stick, crawl naked into the sweat lodge (Downward Bound is co-ed, btw. Leave your modesty at the trail head) and start pouring water on the rocks. After you've had a good cleansing sweat, you run out of the lodge and jump in the glacier-fed lake. Yes, the water is freaking COLD, but your skin is so superheated, it feels refreshing until the cold penetrates to your nerve endings...about 5 seconds...at which point you make a noise like the pod people in the remake of "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" (which has the added entertainment value of scaring the shit out of any other campers within earshot), jump up and walk across the surface of the lake to the shore, your skin tingling (and clean, without soap).

Repeat as necessary Sunday. Backpack out. My kind of fun.

DamnYankee
09-28-2009, 11:28 AM
I venture more towards the ultra-light, although you won't find any drill holes on my toothbrush. And my pack is an Osprey Aether 75, rugged yet tending towards light. I also use a lot of freeze dried eggs and vegetables, but draw the line at dried meat, tending towards country ham and foil packets of tuna and salmon. Pasta is always a staple. My cookware is thin stainless that I've had for decades and I traded in my 8# Coleman single burner for an 8 oz MSR years ago.

Cancel5
09-28-2009, 01:54 PM
I venture more towards the ultra-light, although you won't find any drill holes on my toothbrush. And my pack is an Osprey Aether 75, rugged yet tending towards light. I also use a lot of freeze dried eggs and vegetables, but draw the line at dried meat, tending towards country ham and foil packets of tuna and salmon. Pasta is always a staple. My cookware is thin stainless that I've had for decades and I traded in my 8# Coleman single burner for an 8 oz MSR years ago.
No freeze dried ice cream? It is the best!