PDA

View Full Version : APP - Obama will break his promise.



DamnYankee
08-20-2009, 09:23 AM
Nearly all of the Bush cuts—individual rates, capital gains, dividends, estate tax—are set to expire after 2010. Sixty votes are needed in the 100-member Senate to pass permanent tax cuts. http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6621

No one can seriously doubt that the Democrats in Congress will vote to continue the tax cuts. They'll take the easy route and not bring the issue up. When that happens the tax rates for the lower bracket earners will increase dramatically:


On the expiration of the “Bush” tax cuts, the tax brackets will change as follows:
Brackets 10, 25, 28, 33 and 35 percent will be increased by 50%, 12%, 10.7%, 9.1% and 13.1% percent, respectively, to 15, 28, 31, 36 and 39.6 percent. Those of you at the bottom of the tax barrel will see a 50% tax increase.http://opportunitiesaplenty.com/Debt_Blog/2008/04/_when_the_bush_tax_cuts_expire_for_the_r.html

Obama's promise to raise taxes only on those earning more than $250,000 will, like many of his other false promises, be thrown under the bus.

Bonestorm
08-20-2009, 09:25 AM
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6621

No one can seriously doubt that the Democrats in Congress will vote to continue the tax cuts. They'll take the easy route and not bring the issue up. When that happens the tax rates for the lower bracket earners will increase dramatically:

http://opportunitiesaplenty.com/Debt_Blog/2008/04/_when_the_bush_tax_cuts_expire_for_the_r.html

Obama's promise to raise taxes only on those earning more than $250,000 will, like many of his other false promises, be thrown under the bus.


Even assuming you are correct and Obama and the Democrats do nothing, how is it that something the Congress did back in 2001 is somehow Obama's responsibility? I don't quite get it.

SmarterthanYou
08-20-2009, 09:30 AM
Even assuming you are correct and Obama and the Democrats do nothing, how is it that something the Congress did back in 2001 is somehow Obama's responsibility? I don't quite get it.

that's easy. It will be Obamas fault and he'll be responsible just as much as Bush was at fault and responsible for not renewing the expired Assault Weapons Ban.

Damocles
08-20-2009, 09:32 AM
Even assuming you are correct and Obama and the Democrats do nothing, how is it that something the Congress did back in 2001 is somehow Obama's responsibility? I don't quite get it.
The pledge was that "Nobody making less than $250,000 will see ANY form of tax increase."

He even stressed the word ANY... He made the pledge repeatedly. I plan on holding him to it.

DamnYankee
08-20-2009, 09:34 AM
Even assuming you are correct and Obama and the Democrats do nothing, how is it that something the Congress did back in 2001 is somehow Obama's responsibility? I don't quite get it. Obama was aware of this time bomb when he made his promise, and he has the bully pulpit to stop it.

Bonestorm
08-20-2009, 09:48 AM
Good luck with that, fellers.

Damocles
08-20-2009, 09:50 AM
Good luck with that, fellers.
It won't take luck, it will take simply playing the video of the pledge and then showing reality. Kind of like a "read my lips" moment.

Bonestorm
08-20-2009, 09:54 AM
It won't take luck, it will take simply playing the video of the pledge and then showing reality. Kind of like a "read my lips" moment.


As I said, good luck with that.

TuTu Monroe
08-20-2009, 09:57 AM
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6621

No one can seriously doubt that the Democrats in Congress will vote to continue the tax cuts. They'll take the easy route and not bring the issue up. When that happens the tax rates for the lower bracket earners will increase dramatically:

http://opportunitiesaplenty.com/Debt_Blog/2008/04/_when_the_bush_tax_cuts_expire_for_the_r.html

Obama's promise to raise taxes only on those earning more than $250,000 will, like many of his other false promises, be thrown under the bus.

Many of us already knew this, just by using logic. One term president.

PostmodernProphet
08-20-2009, 10:00 AM
I'm sure the Dems are already rehearsing their excuses for why this isn't really a tax increase.....

Topspin
08-20-2009, 10:00 AM
not renewing tax cuts is in NO WAY raising your taxes.
LOFL, I hope you tools hold your breath wating for that tax cut.

Bonestorm
08-20-2009, 10:01 AM
Many of us already knew this, just by using logic. One term president.


Just by using logic, huh? Can you break down that logic for me? I'm intrigued.

Damocles
08-20-2009, 10:05 AM
As I said, good luck with that.
Thank you.

DamnYankee
08-20-2009, 10:06 AM
As I said, good luck with that. In other words, mere reality doesn't faze the O-bots.

DamnYankee
08-20-2009, 10:08 AM
not renewing tax cuts is in NO WAY raising your taxes.
... You're being facetious, right?

Bonestorm
08-20-2009, 10:11 AM
In other words, mere reality doesn't faze the O-bots.


Mere reality. Right.

I mean it isn't as if back in 2001 the Republicans and the Bush Administration were faced with the problem of the tax cuts busting the budget in the long term if they were permanent and decided as a political matter to include a sunset provision to make the tax cuts easier to sell. Why is Obama responsible for that? The Republicans made a choice. They should live with it.


Aside: The sunset provisions were also included because the tax cuts were passed through the reconciliation process to avoid the potential of a Democratic filibuster. I only mention this aspect because we are likely to hear a whole hell of a lot about the reconciliation process in the coming weeks.

Damocles
08-20-2009, 10:14 AM
Mere reality. Right.

I mean it isn't as if back in 2001 the Republicans and the Bush Administration were faced with the problem of the tax cuts busting the budget in the long term if they were permanent and decided as a political matter to include a sunset provision to make the tax cuts easier to sell. Why is Obama responsible for that? The Republicans made a choice. They should live with it.


Aside: The sunset provisions were also included because the tax cuts were passed through the reconciliation process to avoid the potential of a Democratic filibuster. I only mention this aspect because we are likely to hear a whole hell of a lot about the reconciliation process in the coming weeks.
Again, "will see ANY form of your taxes increase"... When reality faces off with a pledge (defines as a solemn promise in Websters) to do something else it will not be a benefit to him. He's going to have to fight to keep taxes down or it will be exactly a "read my lips" moment.

DamnYankee
08-20-2009, 10:15 AM
Mere reality. Right.

I mean it isn't as if back in 2001 the Republicans and the Bush Administration were faced with the problem of the tax cuts busting the budget in the long term if they were permanent and decided as a political matter to include a sunset provision to make the tax cuts easier to sell. Why is Obama responsible for that? The Republicans made a choice. They should live with it.


Aside: The sunset provisions were also included because the tax cuts were passed through the reconciliation process to avoid the potential of a Democratic filibuster. I only mention this aspect because we are likely to hear a whole hell of a lot about the reconciliation process in the coming weeks.

You just admitted that the Sunset Provisions were to garner needed Democrat votes and then you blame Republicans for it. LOL

Bonestorm
08-20-2009, 10:18 AM
You just admitted that the Sunset Provisions were to garner needed Democrat votes and then you blame Republicans for it. LOL


Actually, no. The sunset provisions were prevent a Democratic filibuster. Under the Senate rules you cannot filibuster a measure that is brought up pursuant to the reconciliation process. It wasn't a means to buy votes, but a means to ensure that 51 votes guaranteed passage. It was also a means to make the budget numbers look good.

SmarterthanYou
08-20-2009, 10:18 AM
like i said earlier and that everyone ignored. It became GWs fault for allowing the AWB to expire and it will be BOs fault for people under 250k a year to see a tax increase.

it's gonna happen folks.

DamnYankee
08-20-2009, 10:22 AM
Actually, no. The sunset provisions were prevent a Democratic filibuster. Under the Senate rules you cannot filibuster a measure that is brought up pursuant to the reconciliation process. It wasn't a means to buy votes, but a means to ensure that 51 votes guaranteed passage. It was also a means to make the budget numbers look good. Actually, yes. They needed Democrat support to avoid a Democrat filibuster. Yet you blame the Republicans. *shrug*

DamnYankee
08-20-2009, 10:23 AM
like i said earlier and that everyone ignored. It became GWs fault for allowing the AWB to expire and it will be BOs fault for people under 250k a year to see a tax increase.

it's gonna happen folks.

Read my Kenyan lips: "no new taxes except for the rich". LOL

Topspin
08-20-2009, 10:24 AM
I'm not saying I don't want republicans to try and Jam up Obama like lefties evily jammed push 1 on no new taxes after then shoved taxes down his throat.
What I'm saying is Obama ran on the Bush tax cuts being evil. None of you neotools actually epected him to renew them. Even I don't think Ya'll are that dumb.

DamnYankee
08-20-2009, 10:26 AM
Brackets 10, 25, 28, 33 and 35 percent will be increased by 50%, 12%, 10.7%, 9.1% and 13.1% percent, respectively... Obama will be raising taxes mostly on the poor. :pke:

Damocles
08-20-2009, 10:27 AM
I'm not saying I don't want republicans to try and Jam up Obama like lefties evily jammed push 1 on no new taxes after then shoved taxes down his throat.
What I'm saying is Obama ran on the Bush tax cuts being evil. None of you neotools actually epected him to renew them. Even I don't think Ya'll are that dumb.
No, this is simply not true. He ran on a pledge that they would take care of that, keep the cuts for those below $250K and sunset only the "top earners". It will not be hard to make the campaign commercials if they allow the sunset to increase everybody's taxes. It will be like Bush 41.

Topspin
08-20-2009, 10:27 AM
and I hope ya'll pay poppa bush back by raking him over the coals.

maineman
08-20-2009, 10:27 AM
If a men's clothing store normally sells a suit for $200, but on the day they celebrate their anniversary, they sell the suits for 20% off... the next day, when the one day sale is over and the suits go back to being $200, the store has not really increased the price of suits. same with the Bush temporary tax cuts. they were not designed to be permanent.

DamnYankee
08-20-2009, 10:33 AM
If a men's clothing store normally sells a suit for $200, but on the day they celebrate their anniversary, they sell the suits for 20% off... the next day, when the one day sale is over and the suits go back to being $200, the store has not really increased the price of suits. same with the Bush temporary tax cuts. they were not designed to be permanent. Except it's not the next day but ten years, in a country with a short memory. LOL

Damocles
08-20-2009, 10:44 AM
If a men's clothing store normally sells a suit for $200, but on the day they celebrate their anniversary, they sell the suits for 20% off... the next day, when the one day sale is over and the suits go back to being $200, the store has not really increased the price of suits. same with the Bush temporary tax cuts. they were not designed to be permanent.
First it needs to be a bit more important to people, something necessary, like breast augmentation surgery or something. Then it needs to be 8 years of price decrease, then they need to advertise that the "price for the worker will NEVER rise for ANY REASON at least 4 more years!" constantly on TV, then raise the price with no comment, not even taking the ads off the air...

That might make it somewhat of an equitable analogy. During the debates he carefully explained that his plan would ensure that the tax cuts would remain for those making less than $250,000, and stressed again that nobody making less than $250,000 would see their taxes increase (then Biden screwed it up on the trail and kept lowering the number because he can't even get that right).

It will not be hard to make the commercials, and this avid defense of his broken promise before it even comes to reality is rather telling.

Topspin
08-20-2009, 10:46 AM
I hope ya'll protest, cause IMO now way Obama doesn't let the tax cuts go away.

Damocles
08-20-2009, 10:48 AM
I hope ya'll protest, cause IMO now way Obama doesn't let the tax cuts go away.
Even though he said that he would not for those making less than $250,000? We don't need to protest, it is exactly a "read my lips" moment. It will be awesome. He even just recently reiterated it after the trial balloon where they said he hadn't "ruled it out" and got a negative reaction so quickly that the very next day they denied that was even a possibility.

Cypress
08-20-2009, 10:49 AM
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6621

No one can seriously doubt that the Democrats in Congress will vote to continue the tax cuts. They'll take the easy route and not bring the issue up. When that happens the tax rates for the lower bracket earners will increase dramatically:

http://opportunitiesaplenty.com/Debt_Blog/2008/04/_when_the_bush_tax_cuts_expire_for_the_r.html

Obama's promise to raise taxes only on those earning more than $250,000 will, like many of his other false promises, be thrown under the bus.


why can't you provide any actual links to credible, fact based articles?

You're first link is a CATO opinion piece from 2006. Three years before obama was president.

You second link....and opinion piece from "OpportunitiesAPlenty.com"

OpportuntiesAPlenty.com???? Are you freaking kidding me?

It's an opinion piece from some obscure rightwing nut who I've never heard of, from a lame website with a ridiculous name.

I didn't see any links in it to credible, fact-based journalistic reporting on what tax legislation Obama has submitted. Upon cursory examination, its a righwing opinion piece that is little more than a screed against communism.

Why do you fucking waste our time with this shit?

DamnYankee
08-20-2009, 10:53 AM
why can't you provide any actual links to credible, fact based articles?

You're first link is a CATO opinion piece from 2006. Three years before obama was president.

You second link....and opinion piece from "OpportunitiesAPlenty.com"

OpportuntiesAPlenty.com???? Are you freaking kidding me?

It's an opinion piece from some obscure rightwing nut who I've never heard of, from a lame website with a ridiculous name.

I didn't see any links in it to credible, fact-based journalistic reporting on what tax legislation Obama has submitted. Upon cursory examination, its a righwing opinion piece that is little more than a screed against communism.

Why do you fucking waste our time with this shit?

LOL The facts that I culled from these two pieces, opinion or not, are not in dispute.

ib1yysguy
08-20-2009, 02:03 PM
why can't you provide any actual links to credible, fact based articles?

You're first link is a CATO opinion piece from 2006. Three years before obama was president.

You second link....and opinion piece from "OpportunitiesAPlenty.com"

OpportuntiesAPlenty.com???? Are you freaking kidding me?

It's an opinion piece from some obscure rightwing nut who I've never heard of, from a lame website with a ridiculous name.

I didn't see any links in it to credible, fact-based journalistic reporting on what tax legislation Obama has submitted. Upon cursory examination, its a righwing opinion piece that is little more than a screed against communism.

Why do you fucking waste our time with this shit?

The thing that surprised me most in this thread was that it took me until reply number 32 before anyone decided to call bullshit on the numbers.

Seriously: nobody in the bottom bracket got a 50 percent DECREASE in taxes with Bush's cuts, so how the hell is their expiration going to mean a 50 percent increase? It doesn't add.

Edit: Yes SM. Your "facts" are in dispute.

PostmodernProphet
08-20-2009, 03:27 PM
I'm not saying I don't want republicans to try and Jam up Obama like lefties evily jammed push 1 on no new taxes after then shoved taxes down his throat.
What I'm saying is Obama ran on the Bush tax cuts being evil. None of you neotools actually epected him to renew them. Even I don't think Ya'll are that dumb.
true....we knew he had no intention of keeping his promise not to raise taxes....we even tried to warn people before the election.....this is all just part of rubbing it in.....