Red v. Blue Mashup

[Fish]

Based on some of the information I have in the "America is fat" thread, I mashed up some other statistics coded red/blue according to where the electoral votes went in the 2008 Presidential election. Listed below are the bottom ten (or top ten) of all data sets. Most of this is census data. If you'd like the individual statistics set, let me know and I'll send it to you.

Obesity %

Mississippi 32.8
Alabama 31.4
West Virginia 31.2
Tennessee 30.6
Oklahoma 30.3
South Carolina 30.1
Kentucky 29.8
North Carolina 29.0
Michigan 28.9
Arkansas 28.7

Median Household Income

South Carolina – $43,329
Tennessee – $42,367
Oklahoma – $41,567
New Mexico – $41,452
Louisiana – $40,926
Alabama – $40,554
Kentucky – $40,267
Arkansas – $38,134
West Virginia – $37,060
Mississippi – $36,338

Infant Mortality Rates Per 1000 Births

District of Columbia 14.1
Mississippi 11.4
Louisiana 10.1
South Carolina 9.4
Alabama 9.4
Delaware 9.0
Tennessee 8.9
North Carolina 8.8
Ohio 8.3
West Virginia 8.1 / Oklahoma 8.1

Uninsured (2006)

Texas 24.5
New Mexico 22.9
Louisiana 21.9
Florida 21.2
Arizona 20.9
Mississippi 20.8
Nevada 19.6
Arkansas 18.9
Oklahoma 18.9
California 18.8

High School Graduation Percentage (2000)

Mississippi 64.3
Kentucky 64.6
West Virginia 66.0
Arkansas 66.3
Alabama 66.9
Tennessee 67.1
Louisiana / South Carolina 68.3
North Carolina 70.0
Georgia 70.9
Rhode Island 72.0

% Living Below Poverty Line (2007)


Mississippi 20.6
Louisiana 18.6
New Mexico 18.1
Arkansas 17.9
Kentucky 17.3
West Virginia / Alabama 16.9
Washington DC 16.4
Texas 16.3
Oklahoma / Tennessee 15.9
South Carolina 15.0

Life Expectancy

Kentucky 75.2
Arkansas 75.2
Oklahoma 75.2
Tennessee 75.1
West Virginia 75.1
South Carolina 74.8
Alabama 74.4
Louisiana 74.2
Mississippi 73.6
District of Columbia 72.0

Literacy Rate % (2005)

South Carolina 81.7
Tennessee 81.2
West Virginia 81.2
Arkansas 81.0
Louisiana 80.5
Alabama 80.3
California 80.1
Kentucky 79.0
Texas 78.8
Mississippi 78.5

To me, it seems pretty obvious that "red states" are often places that vote against their own best interests, especially in poor areas like the south. Mississippi appears on every single list here, Tennessee/Arkansas/Louisiana are staples at the bottom of this statistical barrel as well.

What conclusions do you draw from this set of data?

EDIT: If there's anything you'd like to see mashed up like this and the data set is available from a reputable source I'll add it to this post.

[Cancel5]

Based on some of the information I have in the "America is fat" thread, I mashed up some other statistics coded red/blue according to where the electoral votes went in the 2008 Presidential election. Listed below are the bottom ten (or top ten) of all data sets. Most of this is census data. If you'd like the individual statistics set, let me know and I'll send it to you.

Obesity %

Mississippi 32.8
Alabama 31.4
West Virginia 31.2
Tennessee 30.6
Oklahoma 30.3
South Carolina 30.1
Kentucky 29.8
North Carolina 29.0
Michigan 28.9
Arkansas 28.7

Median Household Income

South Carolina – $43,329
Tennessee – $42,367
Oklahoma – $41,567
New Mexico – $41,452
Louisiana – $40,926
Alabama – $40,554
Kentucky – $40,267
Arkansas – $38,134
West Virginia – $37,060
Mississippi – $36,338

Infant Mortality Rates Per 1000 Births

District of Columbia 14.1
Mississippi 11.4
Louisiana 10.1
South Carolina 9.4
Alabama 9.4
Delaware 9.0
Tennessee 8.9
North Carolina 8.8
Ohio 8.3
West Virginia 8.1 / Oklahoma 8.1

Uninsured (2006)

Texas 24.5
New Mexico 22.9
Louisiana 21.9
Florida 21.2
Arizona 20.9
Mississippi 20.8
Nevada 19.6
Arkansas 18.9
Oklahoma 18.9
California 18.8

High School Graduation Percentage (2000)

Mississippi 64.3
Kentucky 64.6
West Virginia 66.0
Arkansas 66.3
Alabama 66.9
Tennessee 67.1
Louisiana / South Carolina 68.3
North Carolina 70.0
Georgia 70.9
Rhode Island 72.0

% Living Below Poverty Line (2007)


Mississippi 20.6
Louisiana 18.6
New Mexico 18.1
Arkansas 17.9
Kentucky 17.3
West Virginia / Alabama 16.9
Washington DC 16.4
Texas 16.3
Oklahoma / Tennessee 15.9
South Carolina 15.0

Life Expectancy

Kentucky 75.2
Arkansas 75.2
Oklahoma 75.2
Tennessee 75.1
West Virginia 75.1
South Carolina 74.8
Alabama 74.4
Louisiana 74.2
Mississippi 73.6
District of Columbia 72.0

Literacy Rate % (2005)

South Carolina 81.7
Tennessee 81.2
West Virginia 81.2
Arkansas 81.0
Louisiana 80.5
Alabama 80.3
California 80.1
Kentucky 79.0
Texas 78.8
Mississippi 78.5

To me, it seems pretty obvious that "red states" are often places that vote against their own best interests, especially in poor areas like the south. Mississippi appears on every single list here, Tennessee/Arkansas/Louisiana are staples at the bottom of this statistical barrel as well.

What conclusions do you draw from this set of data?

EDIT: If there's anything you'd like to see mashed up like this and the data set is available from a reputable source I'll add it to this post.

Seems obvious, liberals are just better at everything, right!

[Fish]

My post is pretty red and those aren't great categories to be leading the way in.

Any opinions on why conservative leaning states have a greater problem with poverty?

[uscitizen]

Seems obvious, liberals are just better at everything, right!

:clink:

[PostmodernProphet]

My post is pretty red and those aren't great categories to be leading the way in.

Any opinions on why conservative leaning states have a greater problem with poverty?

most of the states on your list, whether red or blue are states that have fewer industries and more agriculture....I would say the contributing factor is job opportunities, not political stance....let's face it those states that did go blue were states with metropolitan areas that had populations outbalancing the rest of the state.....urban areas vote Democratic.....

[Fish]

most of the states on your list, whether red or blue are states that have fewer industries and more agriculture....I would say the contributing factor is job opportunities, not political stance....let's face it those states that did go blue were states with metropolitan areas that had populations outbalancing the rest of the state.....urban areas vote Democratic.....

Fair enough, but what about things like life expectancy and literacy? Do you think lack of industry effects these?

[PostmodernProphet]

Fair enough, but what about things like life expectancy and literacy? Do you think lack of industry effects these?
lack of industry, lack of jobs, lack of income, lack of taxes, lack of money to have good schools, hospitals, etc......it's all part of the same train.....

I grew up in Iowa...small town, no jobs unless you were going to farm.....28 kids in my graduating class (school now closed, consolidated with other schools)....only three of the 28 still live there.....(and one of them still lives in his parents basement, stoned half the time).......

[Fish]

What's are your suggestions to help the disadvantaged in these places?

[Cancel5]

Teach them to fish?

[PostmodernProphet]

What's are your suggestions to help the disadvantaged in these places?
obviously the goal is to create jobs....though most factories aren't going to set up in communities don't have enough manpower to let them choose the best employees.....if you need a thousand workers you aren't going to build a factory somewhere where you need to hire 75% of the people in town....that's why a gradual transition to urban areas was and is inevitable....

[Fish]

Teach them to fish?



Hehe.

Yes, everyone should be staunch advocates of those without a voice.

[PostmodernProphet]

Teach them to fish?
or fishfarming?.....

[Fish]

obviously the goal is to create jobs....though most factories aren't going to set up in communities don't have enough manpower to let them choose the best employees.....if you need a thousand workers you aren't going to build a factory somewhere where you need to hire 75% of the people in town....that's why a gradual transition to urban areas was and is inevitable....

Interesting.

So you see a continuing shift of more and more population to urban centers?

[uscitizen]

most of the states on your list, whether red or blue are states that have fewer industries and more agriculture....I would say the contributing factor is job opportunities, not political stance....let's face it those states that did go blue were states with metropolitan areas that had populations outbalancing the rest of the state.....urban areas vote Democratic.....

And I thought Conservatives attracted Business?

[PostmodernProphet]

Interesting.

So you see a continuing shift of more and more population to urban centers?

hasn't that been the trend for eight, nine thousand years?.....

[PostmodernProphet]

And I thought Conservatives attracted Business?
smart policies attract business....it's just that conservatives have those more often than liberals....

[uscitizen]

smart policies attract business....it's just that conservatives have those more often than liberals....

so should not the conservative states have "smart policies"?

[Fish]

hasn't that been the trend for eight, nine thousand years?.....

Sure, sure. It just seems that you're saying that there's more opportunity to improve one's quality of life in the city (Liberals) than there is in the country (Conservatives).

[cawacko]

Sure, sure. It just seems that you're saying that there's more opportunity to improve one's quality of life in the city (Liberals) than there is in the country (Conservatives).

That depends where you are. City's like Detroit are dying. Very little economic activity.

I'm not sure what the liberal vs. conservative thing has to do with opportunity (though I'm sure a partisan will inform me) but look back at the '50's and '60's with white flight to the suburbs. That's where most of the money was. Now you have rich people moving back in to the (some) cities and poor and middle class people being forced out. Is that because of opportunity of based on where people want to live?

[PostmodernProphet]

Sure, sure. It just seems that you're saying that there's more opportunity to improve one's quality of life in the city (Liberals) than there is in the country (Conservatives).

there are other factors involved in "quality of life"....there's crime, pollution, overcrowding, more expensive....

look we were talking about conditions of many of the states on your list....West Virginia, Alabama, Mississippi....there are still places you can go and work and enjoy life and not have to be surrounded by liberals.....

[uscitizen]

Cons always say get an education and pull yourself up out of poverty by your bootstraps.
So why do they lead in low HS graduation rates?

because they are better at telliing than doing?

[Fish]

there are other factors involved in "quality of life"....there's crime, pollution, overcrowding, more expensive....

look we were talking about conditions of many of the states on your list....West Virginia, Alabama, Mississippi....there are still places you can go and work and enjoy life and not have to be surrounded by liberals.....

Right, but we were also talking about some problems affecting those states in my lists. The repeat offender states are states that I would widely cite as "deep red" states with conservative policies.

[cawacko]

Right, but we were also talking about some problems affecting those states in my lists. The repeat offender states are states that I would widely cite as "deep red" states with conservative policies.

Why don't you throw the race issue into it?

[uscitizen]

Why don't you throw the race issue into it?

What would be the purpose of doing that?

[Fish]

Why don't you throw the race issue into it?

?

[PostmodernProphet]

Cons always say get an education and pull yourself up out of poverty by your bootstraps.
So why do they lead in low HS graduation rates?

because they are better at telliing than doing?

really?....do conservatives lead in low HS graduation rates?.....who do statistics show drops out of school more frequently......what are the typical voting patterns of the groups that make up that statistic?......can we have some honesty in this debate, please.....

are drop out rates higher in urban schools or suburban?.....

[cawacko]

?

you know what, i'm not even going to go there. Forget I brought it up.

[uscitizen]

really?....do conservatives lead in low HS graduation rates?.....who do statistics show drops out of school more frequently......what are the typical voting patterns of the groups that make up that statistic?......can we have some honesty in this debate, please.....

I was just going off the stats posted in this thread.
You might want to search out the answer you asked yourself. It might educate you some.

And for the other part of my comment. Cons have proven to be better at talking the talk than walking the walk.

[cawacko]

really?....do conservatives lead in low HS graduation rates?.....who do statistics show drops out of school more frequently......what are the typical voting patterns of the groups that make up that statistic?......can we have some honesty in this debate, please.....

are drop out rates higher in urban schools or suburban?.....

I know exactly what you are arguing and you're right. You won't be able to have a real discussion like that though with a simpleton such as citizen.

[PostmodernProphet]

I was just going off the stats posted in this thread.
You might want to search out the answer you asked yourself. It might educate you some.


do urban areas tend to vote more frequently along liberal lines?

High school drop-out rate in major US cities at nearly 50 percent
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/apr2008/scho-a03.shtml

do blacks and hispanics tend to vote more frequently along liberal lines?
http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/tables/1_Table_2.htm



Cons have proven to be better at talking the talk than walking the walk

and libs prove incompetent at both....

[belme1201]

smart policies attract business....it's just that conservatives have those more often than liberals....





....as evidenced by the above lists.

[uscitizen]

Umm PMP you left out the percentage of blacks in urban and rural areas.
Income spread.
And a few other things I have not thought of yet that is pertinent.

[PostmodernProphet]

Umm PMP you left out the percentage of blacks in urban and rural areas.
Income spread.
And a few other things I have not thought of yet that is pertinent.

I didn't leave out anything I intended to present....if you think there is something that contradicts me, present it.....

[uscitizen]

I didn't leave out anything I intended to present....if you think there is something that contradicts me, present it.....

Facts. But you already know that.
But cannot accept it.

[PostmodernProphet]

Facts. But you already know that.
But cannot accept it.

I know you haven't presented any....

[Mott the Hoople]

most of the states on your list, whether red or blue are states that have fewer industries and more agriculture....I would say the contributing factor is job opportunities, not political stance....let's face it those states that did go blue were states with metropolitan areas that had populations outbalancing the rest of the state.....urban areas vote Democratic.....That's a bogus answer. Politics and economics are directly correlated. Most of the midwestern farming states, Indiana, Iowa, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Nebraska, Missouri, the Dakota's, etc, are not on those list and that directly contradicts your argument. Employment opportunities often result from specific political policies that favor both economic devlopment and education. Those are policies that southern conservatives have, for many years, been overtly hostile to.

[Mott the Hoople]

lack of industry, lack of jobs, lack of income, lack of taxes, lack of money to have good schools, hospitals, etc......it's all part of the same train.....

I grew up in Iowa...small town, no jobs unless you were going to farm.....28 kids in my graduating class (school now closed, consolidated with other schools)....only three of the 28 still live there.....(and one of them still lives in his parents basement, stoned half the time).......Well looks like we share something in common PiMP. I graduated from High School in Eldridge, IA.

[Mott the Hoople]

Teach them to fish?That might not work so well in Nebraska! LOL

[Mott the Hoople]

hasn't that been the trend for eight, nine thousand years?.....No actually the recent trend in the USA has been a shift away from urban centers towards suburban, thus the problem with sprawl.

[Mott the Hoople]

smart policies attract business....it's just that conservatives have those more often than liberals....Then how comes most of the major economic expansion in this country has occurred under liberal administrations? How comes most of our economic recessions and depressions occurred during conservative administrations?

[Mott the Hoople]

That depends where you are. City's like Detroit are dying. Very little economic activity.

I'm not sure what the liberal vs. conservative thing has to do with opportunity (though I'm sure a partisan will inform me) but look back at the '50's and '60's with white flight to the suburbs. That's where most of the money was. Now you have rich people moving back in to the (some) cities and poor and middle class people being forced out. Is that because of opportunity of based on where people want to live?
Excellent question.

[Mott the Hoople]

really?....do conservatives lead in low HS graduation rates?.....who do statistics show drops out of school more frequently......what are the typical voting patterns of the groups that make up that statistic?......can we have some honesty in this debate, please.....

are drop out rates higher in urban schools or suburban?.....Rural actually.

[Mott the Hoople]

you know what, i'm not even going to go there. Forget I brought it up.No, that's a very legitimate question about race. Particularly in conservative southern states where many economic policies implemented have been done so specifically to disadvantage blacks. I've seen first hand in southern states like South Carolina how they cut off their noses to spite their faces with the specific intent to keep blacks from receiving a quality public education.

[PostmodernProphet]

Well looks like we share something in common PiMP. I graduated from High School in Eldridge, IA.

been past it then....I grew up near the Minnesota border, due north of Des Moines.....my wife is from the Waterloo area....

[PostmodernProphet]

No actually the recent trend in the USA has been a shift away from urban centers towards suburban, thus the problem with sprawl.

the suburbs are merely an extension of the metropolitan area....people commute to the city where work is available.....if the work wasn't there, the people wouldn't be....Detroit is an example of that.....

[PostmodernProphet]

Rural actually.

I've already provided the evidence that drop out rates in urban areas are near 50%, compared to a national average of 30%.....this contradicts your as yet unsupported claim.....

[PostmodernProphet]

Then how comes most of the major economic expansion in this country has occurred under liberal administrations? How comes most of our economic recessions and depressions occurred during conservative administrations?

it hasn't.....I recall the Carter years.....I also know that the economic expansion that liberals loved Clinton for were built upon the dot.com and housing bubble expansions that collapsed and gave us the mess we are still dealing with today.....

[Mott the Hoople]

it hasn't.....I recall the Carter years.....I also know that the economic expansion that liberals loved Clinton for were built upon the dot.com and housing bubble expansions that collapsed and gave us the mess we are still dealing with today.....Both claims false. It was Carter's man Rueben who solved the problem of stagflation in the 70s which was a direct result of the Nixon administration policies. Ford did an admirable job in growing the economy after Nixon but did not do much to curb the problem of unemployment and inflation. Carter made the hard decisions to do that and he paid dearly politically for it. Then you also convienantly forget the explosion in the 90's of the technology boom which caused the greatest peace time expansion in the US economy in our history of which the Dot Com bubble was just a blip, so spare us the lies of the Fox News talking points and try to stay in the land of reality.

[Mott the Hoople]

been past it then....I grew up near the Minnesota border, due north of Des Moines.....my wife is from the Waterloo area....
I lived in Parkview outside of Davenport while my father was a grad student at Palmer College. Attended North Scott in Elderidge. Go Lancers!

[Cypress]

My post is pretty red and those aren't great categories to be leading the way in.

Any opinions on why conservative leaning states have a greater problem with poverty?



IMO, at its most core level, the retardation of the the pro-american parts of america - aka the bible belt- , relative to the anti-american parts of america (blue states) comes down to two fundamental differences.


Racism and Christianity. The conservatives states and the bible belt are, and always have been, burdened with instututionalized racism and fundamentalist christianity.

There's nothing like ignorance, hostility to science, and the social tension associated with widespread and ingrained irrational hate and prejudice, to retard the progress of any society.

[cawacko]

No, that's a very legitimate question about race. Particularly in conservative southern states where many economic policies implemented have been done so specifically to disadvantage blacks. I've seen first hand in southern states like South Carolina how they cut off their noses to spite their faces with the specific intent to keep blacks from receiving a quality public education.

Then how do you explain cities like Oakland and Los Angeles (among many other examples), liberal cities in more liberal states, that have horrific graduation rates?

[PostmodernProphet]

It was Carter's man Rueben who solved the problem of stagflation in the 70s which was a direct result of the Nixon administration policies.

It should be easy for you to prove it then....what did he do, when did he do it and when did the miraculous results occur....

the Carter administration was what converted me from being a Democrat to being a Republican...do a good job and you might be able to win me back....

[PostmodernProphet]

I lived in Parkview outside of Davenport while my father was a grad student at Palmer College. Attended North Scott in Elderidge. Go Lancers!

ah, my chiropractor is on the board at Palmer....we talk about it whenever I go in.....

[Mott the Hoople]

Then how do you explain cities like Oakland and Los Angeles (among many other examples), liberal cities in more liberal states, that have horrific graduation rates?I think there are some policy issues that contribute to high dropout rates. Mostly though I believe the problem is not political in nature more so cultural. In many urban African American communities and in many border cities with high Tijano populations I'm appalled at the peer pressure against education. The peer pressure by black males against higher education is a problem. I don't know how many times I've seen bright young African American males mercilessly razed by their peers for being poindextures and orioles when they demonstrated academic success. How thugs and gangsters are idolized over those who seek success in the traditional professions and trades that require an education. I've also seen that in Mexican communities where the value for education is simply not emphasized. "That's for you gringo" is an all to often heard refrain. It also places Mexicans at odds with most of the rest of latin America where there's a huge value placed on education.

Having said that, I saw how conservatives in South Carolina and Arkansas gutted their states public education systems (which weren't all that hot to begin with). When Brown vs Board of education was passed and was supposed to end "seperate but equal" the nebulous phrase, "with all due speed" was inserted. This was interpreted very loosely by southern conservatives as "When were damned good and ready too". The end results was the enforced desegregation of schools in the south during the 70's via busing. When this occurred southern white conservatives withdrew their children from South Carolina public schools in hordes and enrolled them in private schools not accessible to black students while at the same time undermining the tax base for public education in the state with the intent of undermining public education for blacks in the state. No dumber, short sighted and unsustainable policy could have been implemented. In the long term it hurt white children as badly as black as South Carolina is stuck with superanuated school buildings and underpaid, underskilled educators in a broken down public education systems that will cost them a fortune to fix. North Carolina and Virigina though equally hostile towards enforced integration via bussing took a much wiser approach and decided that though opposed, they must obey the rule of law. Those two states have benefited tremendously there by while many other southern states have paid serious consequences for their short sightedness.

I would not live in Arkansas or South Carolina if I had to send my kids to their awful public schools (Thank the good lord I received a good public education in Ohio and one of the best high school educations available in the world in Iowa.).

But one must recognize that the educational problems in the south are not just purely politics. Again cultural values play a huge roll. I don't know how many times in the rural south I've heard comments along the line of "What the hell does that boy need an education for to chop cotton?". There counter part in rural Ohio would have said "I don't care if I got to mortgage the whole damned farm, that boy is going to college!".

So yes, your point is a good one. It's not all politics. Cultural values play a huge roll.

[cawacko]

I think there are some policy issues that contribute to high dropout rates. Mostly though I believe the problem is not political in nature more so cultural. In many urban African American communities and in many border cities with high Tijano populations I'm appalled at the peer pressure against education. The peer pressure by black males against higher education is a problem. I don't know how many times I've seen bright young African American males mercilessly razed by their peers for being poindextures and orioles when they demonstrated academic success. How thugs and gangsters are idolized over those who seek success in the traditional professions and trades that require an education. I've also seen that in Mexican communities where the value for education is simply not emphasized. "That's for you gringo" is an all to often heard refrain. It also places Mexicans at odds with most of the rest of latin America where there's a huge value placed on education.

Having said that, I saw how conservatives in South Carolina and Arkansas gutted their states public education systems (which weren't all that hot to begin with). When Brown vs Board of education was passed and was supposed to end "seperate but equal" the nebulous phrase, "with all due speed" was inserted. This was interpreted very loosely by southern conservatives as "When were damned good and ready too". The end results was the enforced desegregation of schools in the south during the 70's via busing. When this occurred southern white conservatives withdrew their children from South Carolina public schools in hordes and enrolled them in private schools not accessible to black students while at the same time undermining the tax base for public education in the state with the intent of undermining public education for blacks in the state. No dumber, short sighted and unsustainable policy could have been implemented. In the long term it hurt white children as badly as black as South Carolina is stuck with superanuated school buildings and underpaid, underskilled educators in a broken down public education systems that will cost them a fortune to fix. North Carolina and Virigina though equally hostile towards enforced integration via bussing took a much wiser approach and decided that though opposed, they must obey the rule of law. Those two states have benefited tremendously there by while many other southern states have paid serious consequences for their short sightedness.

I would not live in Arkansas or South Carolina if I had to send my kids to their awful public schools (Thank the good lord I received a good public education in Ohio and one of the best high school educations available in the world in Iowa.).

But one must recognize that the educational problems in the south are not just purely politics. Again cultural values play a huge roll. I don't know how many times in the rural south I've heard comments along the line of "What the hell does that boy need an education for to chop cotton?". There counter part in rural Ohio would have said "I don't care if I got to mortgage the whole damned farm, that boy is going to college!".

So yes, your point is a good one. It's not all politics. Cultural values play a huge roll.

You are right there many ingredients involved involved in the failure of education. But even the simple 'blue' vs. 'red' state is too facial an answer in my opinon. This works both ways but there are states that vote 'red' in the Persidential election but will have a 'blue' Govenor or 'blue' state legislature for example. You reference Arkansas which is currently a 'red' state but its where the Clinton's are from and where Bill was a Governor. Even a state as 'Blue' as California has a 'Red' Governor. Massachettes is a very 'blue' state but have had 'Red' Governors.

Again just my opinion but if you are really loooking at an issue other than just trying to score points on a chat board this 'red' vs. 'blue' stuff does not come nearly close to addressing the issues.

[Mott the Hoople]

It should be easy for you to prove it then....what did he do, when did he do it and when did the miraculous results occur....

the Carter administration was what converted me from being a Democrat to being a Republican...do a good job and you might be able to win me back....I can't say that. I was to young to vote when Carter was President his first term but his political ineptitude (though he was a good administrator, Carter honestly can't be blamed for the stagflation period of the 70's and did a lot to solve the problem for which he does not get credit) and his gang from Georgia politically alienated just about everyone. So to make a long story short, I started out as a Republican. It's been the Republican party's gradual descent into right wing extremism and incompetence, as exemplified by Dubya, that converted me to a Democrat. The immoral invasion of Iraq was the straw that broke the camels back for me.

You know what's interesting. It was the Carter/Reagan Presidential debate, which Reagan clearly won, that first convinced me to become a Republican. But now, all these years later, if you go to You Tube and watch the debates again, with nearly 30 years of hindsight, even though Reagan clearly won that debate, it's self evident that Carter was right on nearly every issue they discussed and Reagan was ether wrong or uninformed. It's very interesting.

[Mott the Hoople]

ah, my chiropractor is on the board at Palmer....we talk about it whenever I go in.....
Great school Palmer. I spent a year there before I decided that I didn't want to follow my fathers footsteps. I learned more there in one year then I did in all my undergraduate studies at Wright State and my masters program at Findlay College (a nationally recognized graduate program no less) combined. Palmer college is one hard ball buster of a school and their graduates certainly have earned their reputation as being the best Chiropractors.

[Mott the Hoople]

You are right there many ingredients involved involved in the failure of education. But even the simple 'blue' vs. 'red' state is too facial an answer in my opinon. This works both ways but there are states that vote 'red' in the Persidential election but will have a 'blue' Govenor or 'blue' state legislature for example. You reference Arkansas which is currently a 'red' state but its where the Clinton's are from and where Bill was a Governor. Even a state as 'Blue' as California has a 'Red' Governor. Massachettes is a very 'blue' state but have had 'Red' Governors.

Again just my opinion but if you are really loooking at an issue other than just trying to score points on a chat board this 'red' vs. 'blue' stuff does not come nearly close to addressing the issues.
Yea I agree in general. There are no such things as Blue States and Red States there are only "These United States". The rest is Orwellian politics used to manipulate and divide us on issues. That's why I refuse to consider myself either a conservative or a liberal.

Right now I'm pretty harsh towards the right wing of the Republican party as I believe they have descended into extremism by the dominance of social and religious reactionaries within the party. But if you can turn the clock back 30 years it was the Democrats who were dominated by extremist from a coalition of social welfare state liberals who didn't have much respect for those in the population who produce wealth and a badly corrupted labor union lobby.

[PostmodernProphet]

did a lot to solve the problem for which he does not get credit

first you tell me Reuben solved the problem, now you say he did a lot to solve the problem....I'm still waiting for you to tell me what he did.....

[Mott the Hoople]

first you tell me Reuben solved the problem, now you say he did a lot to solve the problem....I'm still waiting for you to tell me what he did.....It was Carter who hired Rueben and gave him a mandate to bring inflation under control. Which Rueben did. Do you want me to link you to that info?

[PostmodernProphet]

It was Carter who hired Rueben and gave him a mandate to bring inflation under control. Which Rueben did. Do you want me to link you to that info?

I would prefer it if you actually debated the issue....again, all I get is "which Rueben did".....I don't remember Carter doing jack shit to solve the problem....