Obama's "Fishy" untruths

[Canceled2]

Orthopedic Surgeons respond to Obama on amputation comment


<<<<<snip>>>>>Statement from the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons Regarding Comments from President Obama


The American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons (AAOS) is profoundly disappointed with President Obama's recent comments regarding the value of surgery and blurring the realities of physician reimbursements. The AAOS represents over 17,000 US board-certified orthopaedic surgeons who provide essential services to patients every day. As President Obama has said, "Where we do disagree, let's disagree over things that are real, not these wild misrepresentations that bear no resemblance to anything that's actually been proposed." In that spirit, we would like to bring some clarity to his comments and underscore the value that orthopaedic surgeons bring to Americans every day of every year.


First, surgeons are neither reimbursed by Medicare, nor any provider for that matter, for foot amputations at rates anywhere close to $50,000, $40,000 or even $30,000. Medicare reimbursements to physicians for foot amputations range from approximately $700 to $1200 which includes the follow up care the surgeon provides to the patient up to 90 days after the operation. Moreover, orthopaedic surgeons are actively involved in the preventive care he mentions. We are a specialty that focuses on limb preservation whenever possible and when it is in the best interests of the patient. Our approach to amputation follows the same careful, thoughtful approach, always with the patients best interest as the primary focus. <<<<<snip>>>>>

Read the whole article here (http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/08/orthopedic_surgeons_respond_to.html)

[Fish]

I can't wait to read the four other threads that you post where the only content is an article that you clipped from a conservative blog.

[meme]

so only the stuff that is posted off the Hugo's website is the truth, I take it..

anything that a conservative say's about it must be a lie, I take it..

LOL

[Canceled2]

I can't wait to read the four other threads that you post where the only content is an article that you clipped from a conservative blog.

Anytime you wish to discuss the merits of what I post let me know

[Fish]

so only the stuff that is posted off the Hugo's website is the truth, I take it..

anything that a conservative say's about it must be a lie, I take it..

LOL

When did I say that or pull any information or quotes from any supportive Barack Obama websites?

[Fish]

Anytime you wish to discuss the merits of what I post let me know

If I want to read that blog, I'll read it. Nobody needs you to repost articles from it here. As part of a discussion, starting with an article is great, but you're adding no commentary, asking no questions, and in fact aren't even posting any of your own words in the original post.

[charver]

If I want to read that blog, I'll read it. Nobody needs you to repost articles from it here. As part of a discussion, starting with an article is great, but you're adding no commentary, asking no questions, and in fact aren't even posting any of your own words in the original post.

That's a little harsh. The word "snip" clearly appears twice in the original post and is absent in the source itself.

What more do you want, blood?

[Fish]

That's a little harsh. The word "snip" clearly appears twice in the original post and is absent in the source itself.

What more do you want, blood?

What?

[belme1201]

Orthopedic Surgeons respond to Obama on amputation comment


<<<<<snip>>>>>Statement from the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons Regarding Comments from President Obama


The American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons (AAOS) is profoundly disappointed with President Obama's recent comments regarding the value of surgery and blurring the realities of physician reimbursements. The AAOS represents over 17,000 US board-certified orthopaedic surgeons who provide essential services to patients every day. As President Obama has said, "Where we do disagree, let's disagree over things that are real, not these wild misrepresentations that bear no resemblance to anything that's actually been proposed." In that spirit, we would like to bring some clarity to his comments and underscore the value that orthopaedic surgeons bring to Americans every day of every year.


First, surgeons are neither reimbursed by Medicare, nor any provider for that matter, for foot amputations at rates anywhere close to $50,000, $40,000 or even $30,000. Medicare reimbursements to physicians for foot amputations range from approximately $700 to $1200 which includes the follow up care the surgeon provides to the patient up to 90 days after the operation. Moreover, orthopaedic surgeons are actively involved in the preventive care he mentions. We are a specialty that focuses on limb preservation whenever possible and when it is in the best interests of the patient. Our approach to amputation follows the same careful, thoughtful approach, always with the patients best interest as the primary focus. <<<<<snip>>>>>

Read the whole article here (http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/08/orthopedic_surgeons_respond_to.html)

I don't know about amputations, but they sure are making up for it on other procedures. Oh yes, there were 2 follow ups, the bills arrived shortly thereafter. Somebody forgot to tell him I suppose. ......and how much will it cost the amputee to be fitted for and receive an artifical limb? Maybe those numbers aren't so very far off after all? Can you supply a quote of what the President said?

[Canceled2]

If I want to read that blog, I'll read it. Nobody needs you to repost articles from it here. As part of a discussion, starting with an article is great, but you're adding no commentary, asking no questions, and in fact aren't even posting any of your own words in the original post.

"In fact". The fact is I posted a portion of an article. You were welcome to disagree or not with the content of what I posted and begin a discussion. Instead you wished to turn the possibility of a discussion on what I posted into a discussion about how I should post and what I should do. :321:

I think that if you wish to add something of interest or an argument to what I posted you should try to frame it around what was posted dipfish. :)

[Canceled2]

I don't know about amputations, but they sure are making up for it on other procedures. Oh yes, there were 2 follow ups, the bills arrived shortly thereafter. Somebody forgot to tell him I suppose.

Again, the point is our president gave an untruth about an entire group of doctors. THAT's FISHY information that NEEDS to be addressed! I think we need to create a web site where honest folks can send these kinds of "fishy" untruths so that we can get the truth out to honest americans.

[ZappasGuitar]

If I want to read that blog, I'll read it. Nobody needs you to repost articles from it here. As part of a discussion, starting with an article is great, but you're adding no commentary, asking no questions, and in fact aren't even posting any of your own words in the original post.

That's because any "original thoughts" that supposedly come from mini-meme or AssDancer are lifted whole cloth from the usual partisan RightWing websites.

[ZappasGuitar]

If I want to read that blog, I'll read it. Nobody needs you to repost articles from it here. As part of a discussion, starting with an article is great, but you're adding no commentary, asking no questions, and in fact aren't even posting any of your own words in the original post.

Well, you've obviously gotten under the "woman's" skin. She's resorted to her standard petty name-calling.

[belme1201]

Again, the point is our president gave an untruth about an entire group of doctors. THAT's FISHY information that NEEDS to be addressed! I think we need to create a web site where honest folks can send these kinds of "fishy" untruths so that we can get the truth out to honest americans.

I edited my post to request a quote of what the President said so I could see it for myself in context. I'd appreciate it.
I have great admiration for my orthpaedist he's excellent, but, in the vernacular, he ain't cheap. If you add the physical therapy(a huge expense) needed, and maybe an artificial limb, $50,000 may be close or too little.

[Canceled1]

I edited my post to request a quote of what the President said so I could see it for myself in context. I'd appreciate it.
I have great admiration for my orthpaedist he's excellent, but, in the vernacular, he ain't cheap. If you add the physical therapy(a huge expense) needed, and maybe an artificial limb, $50,000 may be close or too little.

We understand in your waning years that once simple tasks are now too difficult for you to perform, perhaps even painful. Internet research obviously is one of those and so you call on the younger more able to do it for you.

Please vote for the reform package that Obama has spoonfed you and when it looks like you may need surgery remember these words:

"Take the pill".

Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down!! :p

[Canceled2]

We understand in your waning years that once simple tasks are now too difficult for you to perform, perhaps even painful. Internet research obviously is one of those and so you call on the younger more able to do it for you.

Please vote for the reform package that Obama has spoonfed you and when it looks like you may need surgery remember these words:

"Take the pill".

Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down!! :p

Hahahahaha...now that's funny!

[Fish]

"In fact". The fact is I posted a portion of an article. You were welcome to disagree or not with the content of what I posted and begin a discussion.

Why is it the first posters responsibility to start a discussion in your thread?

[Canceled1]

Why is it the first posters responsibility to start a discussion in your thread?

It's not your responsibility to "do" anything tuna melt.

Try not to feel so put upon.

[Fish]

It's not your responsibility to "do" anything tuna melt.

Try not to feel so put upon.

I didn't say it was my personal responsibility, I asked why Ice Dancer was posting articles with no personal commentary. Is Ice Dancer the RSS feed for the website?

[Fish]

When did I say that or pull any information or quotes from any supportive Barack Obama websites?

Yeah, meme, that's what I thought.

[Canceled2]

Thanks for maturely answering my question.

Hey dipfish, it was you who made this discussion about my responsibility to add commentary to a post that makes obvious an opening commentary for discussion. Now you’re gonna get your fin bent because I refuse to be drawn in to your BS…you must be one thin scaled fish.

You want to discuss the OBVIOUS intent of my post I’ll be more than willing to have that discussion on its own merits.

[TuTu Monroe]

Again, the point is our president gave an untruth about an entire group of doctors. THAT's FISHY information that NEEDS to be addressed! I think we need to create a web site where honest folks can send these kinds of "fishy" untruths so that we can get the truth out to honest americans.

Obama is quickly losing his credibility with anything he says.

[Canceled2]

Obama is quickly losing his credibility with anything he says.

He's shown he's nothing but a slick glossy chicago bullshitter!

[DamnYankee]

Obama lied about having AARP support as well.

Obama lied old farts died.

[PostmodernProphet]

I find it interesting that not a single liberal seems to have even noticed that Obama misrepresented the fees doctors receive......obviously he has presented a plan designed to prevent something that isnt actually happening.....

[Canceled2]

I find it interesting that not a single liberal seems to have even noticed that Obama misrepresented the fees doctors receive......obviously he has presented a plan designed to prevent something that isnt actually happening.....

It's because they don't care. Think about how grossly he misrepresented them; as much as 15 times the actual cost! If this is the math they are using and selling we have much more than just a minor concern over his claim to have the money to pay for this.

[Cancel5]

Obama lied about having AARP support as well.

Obama lied old farts died.

So, AARP doesn't support health care reform? Is this what you are saying and what seniors have died as a result of this?

Who are you quoting? What is your source for this information?

[Cancel5]

Thanks for maturely answering my question.

Where, who, I want to meet them!!

[Cancel5]

I find it interesting that not a single liberal seems to have even noticed that Obama misrepresented the fees doctors receive......obviously he has presented a plan designed to prevent something that isnt actually happening.....

Please show me this, I am not aware, but would like to be educated, seriously.
I have been on vacation, but now it is back to reality. I was forced to watch, America's Got Talent and the other one, So You Think You Can Dance, my friends are wonderful, but have very bad taste in TV!

I am trying to recover from their abuse!

[DamnYankee]

So, AARP doesn't support health care reform? Is this what you are saying and what seniors have died as a result of this?

Who are you quoting? What is your source for this information? Seniors will die under the Obama plan. The AARP doesn't support the plan, yet Obama claimed that they did. He's a liar.


President Obama today suggested that the health care reform legislation for which he’s pushing has been endorsed by the American Association of Retired Person.

“We have the AARP on board because they know this is a good deal for our seniors,” the president said.

At another point he said: “Well, first of all, another myth that we've been hearing about is this notion that somehow we're going to be cutting your Medicare benefits. We are not. AARP would not be endorsing a bill if it was undermining Medicare, okay?”

The problem?

The AARP hasn't endorsed any plan yet. http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/08/president-obamas-senior-moment.html

Did you vote for this liar?

[PostmodernProphet]

So, AARP doesn't support health care reform?



that wasn't the claim....the claim was the AARP supported the plan currently in Congress....they have NOT endorsed it....

[PostmodernProphet]

Please show me this, I am not aware, but would like to be educated, seriously.


the opening post was the doctor's response to Obama's comment about charging $50k fees to Medicare for amputations, stating that the fee that Medicare actually pays for an amputation is $1200.....

[Cancel5]

thanks for the clarification, Prophet!

[cancel2 2022]

I didn't say it was my personal responsibility, I asked why Ice Dancer was posting articles with no personal commentary. Is Ice Dancer the RSS feed for the website?

These two are renowned for their inane comments.

[belme1201]

We understand in your waning years that once simple tasks are now too difficult for you to perform, perhaps even painful. Internet research obviously is one of those and so you call on the younger more able to do it for you.

Please vote for the reform package that Obama has spoonfed you and when it looks like you may need surgery remember these words:

"Take the pill".

Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down!! :p



Right on topic. Damn you're clever!
Don't you get tired of being a meaningless cyber-f..t?

[belme1201]

the opening post was the doctor's response to Obama's comment about charging $50k fees to Medicare for amputations, stating that the fee that Medicare actually pays for an amputation is $1200.....

I would like to see the Obama quote. I asked for it but for some strange reason my request was ignored. Since it's the subject of the thread, it would be nice, unless......... If it's a misunderstanding, a booboo, or a liar-liar, it would be nice to make a judgement based on the reality. I have this strange gut feeling it won't be forthcoming based on past history.

[ib1yysguy]

I'd love for Southern Man to explain how the hell seniors are going to die under Obama's plan.

[ib1yysguy]

I can't find an official endorsement from AARP for the public option, but the AARP certainly doesn't think the current plans are a threat to Medicare or seniors.

http://aarp.convio.net/site/PageNavigator/Myths_vs_Facts

That's a site built by the AARP to dispel myths about healthcare reform. Here's one pertaining to the question Obama was answering:

Myth: Health care reform will hurt Medicare.
Fact: None of the health care reform proposals being considered by Congress would cut Medicare benefits or increase your out-of-pocket costs for Medicare services.
Fact: Health care reform will lower prescription drug costs for people in the Medicare Part D coverage gap or "doughnut hole" so they can get better afford the drugs they need.
Fact: Health care reform will protect seniors' access to their doctors and reduce the cost of preventive services so patients stay healthier.
Fact: Health care reform will reduce costly, preventable hospital readmissions, saving patients and Medicare money.
Fact: Rather than weaken Medicare, health care reform will strengthen the financial status of the Medicare program.
Bottom Line: For people in Medicare, health care reform is about lowering prescription drug costs for people in the "doughnut hole", keeping the doctor of your choice, improving the quality of care, and eliminating billions in waste that is causing poor care and medical errors.

So while Obama was wrong about the endorsement, THE SUBSTANCE OF WHAT HE WAS SAYING ABOUT NOT CUTTING MEDICARE BENEFITS WAS 100 PERCENT ACCURATE ACCORDING TO THE AARP. About government killing old people:

Myth: Health care reform means the government can make life-and-death decisions for you.
Fact: Health care reform will NOT give the government the power to make life-and-death decisions for anyone regardless of their age. Those decisions will be made by individuals, their doctor and their family.
Fact: No one, including the government or your insurance company, will be given power to make life-and-death decisions for you.
Bottom Line: Health care reform isn't about putting the government in charge of difficult end of life decisions. It's about giving individuals and families the option to talk with their doctors in advance about difficult choices every family faces when loved ones near the end of their lives.

Clearly, the AARP knows you guys are full of shit.

[PostmodernProphet]

I would like to see the Obama quote. I asked for it but for some strange reason my request was ignored. Since it's the subject of the thread, it would be nice, unless......... If it's a misunderstanding, a booboo, or a liar-liar, it would be nice to make a judgement based on the reality. I have this strange gut feeling it won't be forthcoming based on past history.

it was linked in the OP....was it too hard for you to look?


All I'm saying is let's take the example of something like diabetes, one of --- a disease that's skyrocketing, partly because of obesity, partly because it's not treated as effectively as it could be. Right now if we paid a family -- if a family care physician works with his or her patient to help them lose weight, modify diet, monitors whether they're taking their medications in a timely fashion, they might get reimbursed a pittance. But if that same diabetic ends up getting their foot amputated, that's $30,000, $40,000, $50,000 -- immediately the surgeon is reimbursed. Well, why not make sure that we're also reimbursing the care that prevents the amputation, right? That will save us money. (Applause.)

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-the-President-at-Town-Hall-on-Health-Insurance-Reform-in-Portsmouth-New-Hampshire/

[belme1201]

it was linked in the OP....was it too hard for you to look?



http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-the-President-at-Town-Hall-on-Health-Insurance-Reform-in-Portsmouth-New-Hampshire/

Please show me where it says the cost to Medicare is to the orthopaedist alone. With OR charges, the anasthesiologist, IC care, the hospital stay, physical therapy, and other charges such as for a walker or wheel chair added to the cost of the surgeon alone, Obama's estimate of cost for the amputation is correct or low in our for-profit system. "The amount Medicare pays for an amputation" is a hell of a lot more than $1200, the amount you are trying to make us believe is the sole cost. I can understand the doctors wanting to clarify the statement but that didn't make it a lie. Also, how does it change the point he was making about pre-care for diabetics?
Who is trying to pedddle the stinky fish around here?
What's the matter,"is it too hard" to analyse crap for the truth? Your Obama hate has made you desperate with no regard for truth.

[PostmodernProphet]

it was linked in the OP....was it too hard for you to look?



http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-the-President-at-Town-Hall-on-Health-Insurance-Reform-in-Portsmouth-New-Hampshire/

Please show me where it says the cost to Medicare is to the orthopaedist alone. With OR charges, the anasthesiologist, IC care, the hospital stay, physical therapy, and other charges such as for a walker or wheel chair added to the cost of the surgeon alone, Obama's estimate of cost for the amputation is correct or low in our for-profit system. "The amount Medicare pays for an amputation" is a hell of a lot more than $1200, the amount you are trying to make us believe is the cost. I can understand the doctors wanting to clarify the statement but that didn't make it a lie. Also, how does it change the point he was making about pre-care for diabetics?
Who is trying to pedddle the stinky fish around here?
What's the matter,"is it too hard" to analyse crap for the truth? Your Obama hate has made you desperate with no regard for truth.

you ask me where it was found I told you....you want to take Obama's word for it instead of the doctor's, go for it....one thing I am certain of after a week here, I won't get truth about health care from a liberal.....The One wanted to blame doctors for the high cost of medicine and got caught.....live with it.....

[Cancel 2018. 3]

you ask me where it was found I told you....you want to take Obama's word for it instead of the doctor's, go for it....one thing I am certain of after a week here, I won't get truth about health care from a liberal.....The One wanted to blame doctors for the high cost of medicine and got caught.....live with it.....

does this mean obama has moved on from blaming bush....

[belme1201]

you ask me where it was found I told you....you want to take Obama's word for it instead of the doctor's, go for it....one thing I am certain of after a week here, I won't get truth about health care from a liberal.....The One wanted to blame doctors for the high cost of medicine and got caught.....live with it.....

I accept the doctor's info that their portion of a leg amputation is $1200. I also accept the fact that with all the costs added together, Obama's multi-thousands of dollar number may have been on the low side and his point about the use of preventive treatment was correct, hard as that may be for you to admit.
I might ask which of your sources it was that brought the issue to the fore? Was it "Right Thinker" alone or one of the gurus you emulate so willingly?
You have shown your "misunderstanding" followed by intransigence when discussing grandfathering, or knowing the difference between a floor and a ceiling when discussing a minimum standard. This issue is just another part of your pattern.

[Damocles]

I accept the docor's info that their portion of a leg amputation is $1200. I also accept the fact that with all the costs added together, Obama's multi-thousands of dollar number may have been on the low side and his point about the use of preventive treatment was correct, hard as that may be for you to admit.
I might ask which of your sources it was that brought the issue to the fore? Was it "Right Thinker" alone or one of the gurus you emulate so willingly?
You have shown your "misunderstanding" followed by intransigence when discussing grandfathering, or knowing the difference between a floor and a ceilinng when discussing a minimum standard. This issue is just another part of your pattern.
Preventative care does not save money. How much do you think millions of colonoscopies will cost each year? Do you think they will begin to limit them as costs rise?

[belme1201]

Preventative care does not save money. How much do you think millions of colonoscopies will cost each year? Do you think they will begin to limit them as costs rise?

Until now I thought preventive care was an issue everyone could agree on. I consider the cost for pre-cancer screening of any type, as well as any other type of life saving/death preventing screening, as money well spent. I believe they will insist on them even more as they drive down costs through early discovery. I also consider putting money ahead of lives to be a sin.

[PostmodernProphet]

I accept the doctor's info that their portion of a leg amputation is $1200. I also accept the fact that with all the costs added together, Obama's multi-thousands of dollar number may have been on the low side and his point about the use of preventive treatment was correct, hard as that may be for you to admit.
I might ask which of your sources it was that brought the issue to the fore? Was it "Right Thinker" alone or one of the gurus you emulate so willingly?
You have shown your "misunderstanding" followed by intransigence when discussing grandfathering, or knowing the difference between a floor and a ceiling when discussing a minimum standard. This issue is just another part of your pattern.

then apparently my "pattern" is bringing enlightenment to the ignorant....do you share ibbie's ignorance on that issue?.....

as for this particular matter, the issue was "brought to the fore" by the OP.....you shared with us your inability to click links and I came to your rescue......(how quickly they forget)

[PostmodernProphet]

Until now I thought preventive care was an issue everyone could agree on. I consider the cost for pre-cancer screening of any type, as well as any other type of life saving/death preventing screening, as money well spent. I believe they will insist on them even more as they drive down costs through early discovery. I also consider putting money ahead of lives to be a sin.

the fact that it is money well spent in saving a life, does not necessarily mean that it's cumulative effect will be to reduce the amount spent....of course, painting your comments in the shape of a platitude does succeed in making you look good, so....MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!.......:pke:

[TuTu Monroe]

Preventative care does not save money. How much do you think millions of colonoscopies will cost each year? Do you think they will begin to limit them as costs rise?

Of course they will begin to limit them, as they do everything.

My state has free seminars at the colleges for preventative care.

[belme1201]

then apparently my "pattern" is bringing enlightenment to the ignorant....do you share ibbie's ignorance on that issue?.....

as for this particular matter, the issue was "brought to the fore" by the OP.....you shared with us your inability to click links and I came to your rescue......(how quickly they forget)

And the cost to Medicare for an amputation other than, or including the orthopaedist is how much?
Who's the OP? The original link was merely to the source of the article.
Your pattern continues, call it enlightenment if you will, it is obviously something else. Regardless, you have been exposed.

[ib1yysguy]

Two nights in the hospital costs about $60,000 if you have a heart attack. It's impossible for me to believe you could get an amputation for $1200. To do so would ignore all of the other fees which are almost certainly applicable. Maybe it's $1200 for the guy holding the hack saw. But that's not all you're charged for. If you go in without insurance and you need an amputation, your bill isn't going to be $1200. I guarantee it would be closer to Obama's figure.

[PostmodernProphet]

Regardless, you have been exposed.

/pulls up his trousers...."Have not!".....the OP is "opening post"....there was an article linked there, I went to it....they linked to Obama's comments....I clicked on it....took me about 45 seconds...I posted them for you because you couldn't find them.....his comments were clear....he was accusing doctors of milking the system....they showed he was full of crap.....which means I've shown you are full of crap.....which explains why I had my trousers down to begin with, as I was the one crapping on you.......Crappiche?....

[DamnYankee]

Two nights in the hospital costs about $60,000 if you have a heart attack. It's impossible for me to believe you could get an amputation for $1200. To do so would ignore all of the other fees which are almost certainly applicable. Maybe it's $1200 for the guy holding the hack saw. But that's not all you're charged for. If you go in without insurance and you need an amputation, your bill isn't going to be $1200. I guarantee it would be closer to Obama's figure.
I'd amputate your head for nothing, as long as you paid for my travel expenses. *shrug*

[DamnYankee]

I'd love for Southern Man to explain how the hell seniors are going to die under Obama's plan.Rationing.

[DamnYankee]

the opening post was the doctor's response to Obama's comment about charging $50k fees to Medicare for amputations, stating that the fee that Medicare actually pays for an amputation is $1200.....
That must be all the overhead expenses that ibgayguy was talking about. *shrug*

[TuTu Monroe]

Rationing.

BINGO....just like they do in Europe.

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Two nights in the hospital costs about $60,000 if you have a heart attack. It's impossible for me to believe you could get an amputation for $1200. To do so would ignore all of the other fees which are almost certainly applicable. Maybe it's $1200 for the guy holding the hack saw. But that's not all you're charged for. If you go in without insurance and you need an amputation, your bill isn't going to be $1200. I guarantee it would be closer to Obama's figure.

no it does not

[Damocles]

Until now I thought preventive care was an issue everyone could agree on. I consider the cost for pre-cancer screening of any type, as well as any other type of life saving/death preventing screening, as money well spent. I believe they will insist on them even more as they drive down costs through early discovery. I also consider putting money ahead of lives to be a sin.
You and I may consider it money well spent, but the reality is it doesn't save money. Yet we hear this as part of the "savings" that will magically appear to make the CBO's predictions "wrong". It simply doesn't add up.

It's smart to pay for preventive care, but saying it saves money is simply ridiculous.

If no emotion were attached and money saving the only object we'd save more by denying all colonoscopies and treating cases where there is already cancer. Thankfully we all agree that the only object isn't cost or there wouldn't be much happening in that area.

[Damocles]

Two nights in the hospital costs about $60,000 if you have a heart attack. It's impossible for me to believe you could get an amputation for $1200. To do so would ignore all of the other fees which are almost certainly applicable. Maybe it's $1200 for the guy holding the hack saw. But that's not all you're charged for. If you go in without insurance and you need an amputation, your bill isn't going to be $1200. I guarantee it would be closer to Obama's figure.



no it does not
True that. My sister's hospital stay was much cheaper than that.

[belme1201]

You and I may consider it money well spent, but the reality is it doesn't save money. Yet we hear this as part of the "savings" that will magically appear to make the CBO's predictions "wrong". It simply doesn't add up.

It's smart to pay for preventive care, but saying it saves money is simply ridiculous.

If no emotion were attached and money saving the only object we'd save more by denying all colonoscopies and treating cases where there is already cancer. Thankfully we all agree that the only object isn't cost or there wouldn't be much happening in that area.

I maintain my belief that preventive medicine is a cost saver, particularly in the early detection of cancer.

[Damocles]

I maintain my belief that preventive medicine is a cost saver, particularly in the early detection of cancer.
You can maintain it all you want, but it doesn't make it any more true than it did when the CBO was making their projections.

[belme1201]

True that. My sister's hospital stay was much cheaper than that.

Never having been in hospital emergency room care(thank goodness), I have no idea what it might cost but I can opine that a 2 day stay in the ER is probably damned(ridiculously) expensive. That said, the fact remains that the cost of a leg amputation to Medicare is in multiple thousands of dollars, the $1200(the subject of this thread) to the surgeon being but a fraction of the total cost. The cost of the anesthesiologist, pre-op, and the OR alone would be several times the $1200 some would have us believe is the total. The President's numbers were correct if not too low.

[ib1yysguy]

no it does not

It did for my father. That was what they billed his insurance, including all the tests, the doctor's time, etc. And he didn't even have surgery.

[belme1201]

You can maintain it all you want, but it doesn't make it any more true than it did when the CBO was making their projections.

I would like to see the CBO estimates regarding the costs of cancer detection, can you direct me to them?

[Damocles]

Never having been in hospital emergency room care(thank goodness), I have no idea what it might cost but I can opine that a 2 day stay in the ER is probably damned(ridiculously) expensive. That said, the fact remains that the cost of a leg amputation to Medicare is in multiple thousands of dollars, the $1200(the subject of this thread) to the surgeon being but a fraction of the total cost. The cost of the anesthesiologist, pre-op, and the OR alone would be several times the $1200 some would have us believe is the total. The President's numbers were correct if not too low.
Actually rooms are more expensive, most insurance tries to keep you in the ER where your co-pays are higher therefore. I've actually spent three days in an ER bed because if I was passed on to the hospital my copay went down and their expenses went up.

[belme1201]

Actually rooms are more expensive, most insurance tries to keep you in the ER where your co-pays are higher therefore. I've actually spent three days in an ER bed because if I was passed on to the hospital my copay went down and their expenses went up.

I always thought that ER care was more expensive than in-room care, BUT shouldn't you have been placed in the proper place for your treatment rather than basing it on who pays what? Wasn't your insurance co. interfering with your care based on cost? Have you just pointed out yet another weakness in the system we now are "blessed" with?
As an aside, while you were being held in the ER were there people in the waiting room awaiting treatment?
You mentioned no figure in responding to another poster, may I ask what the total cost was?

[Damocles]

I always thought that ER care was more expensive than in-room care, BUT shouldn't you have been placed in the proper place for your treatment rather than basing it on who pays what? Wasn't your insurance co. interfering with your care based on cost? Have you just pointed out yet another weakness in the system we now are "blessed" with?
As an aside, while you were being held in the ER were there people in the waiting room awaiting treatment?
You mentioned no figure in responding to another poster, may I ask what the total cost was?
I wouldn't be able to tell you, I just know what the insurance does. At that time I was unconcerned with their cost, and glad that my pain was not another kidney stone. I was also unable to ascertain if there were any others waiting for care. I was put in a bed behind a curtain and drugged up beyond caring.

[belme1201]

I wouldn't be able to tell you, I just know what the insurance does. At that time I was unconcerned with their cost, and glad that my pain was not another kidney stone. I was also unable to ascertain if there were any others waiting for care. I was put in a bed behind a curtain and drugged up beyond caring.

I understand, I've heard passing a stone is terribly painful. It is my belief the fact that the insured, whether by private co. or not, take too little interest in their care and the costs involved. I for one, whether it's my Medicare or my wife's BCBS, will not permit an unsubstantiated charge or overcharge on my bill and fight as if it were totally my cost. I have found that the parties on the other side of the desk or on the phone usually are surprised by my determination for correct charges. I think that if there was an audit system for all billing and all patients were required to review their bills for accuracy, (maybe with a small % spiff)substantial savings would result.
I'm sure the private carriers have some such system for their portion of the bill, I'm almost as sure Medicare doesn't have the resources.

[ZappasGuitar]

I'd love for Southern Man to explain how the hell seniors are going to die under Obama's plan.

The same way they have died every single day of every single year of every single millenium since time began.

People don't live forever, hence they DIE!