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cancel2 2022
08-13-2009, 02:31 PM
It's nice to see that not all Americans have the lost the plot on the NHS.

By RAPHAEL G. SATTER - Associated Press Writer



LONDON -- Britain's health care service says it is sick of being lied about.
Pilloried by right-wing critics of President Barack Obama's health care plan, Britain's National Health Service, known here as the NHS, is fighting back.
"People have been saying some untruths in the States," a spokesman for Britain Department of Health said in a telephone interview. "There's been all these ridiculous claims made by the American health lobby about Obama's health care plan ... and they've used the NHS as an example. A lot of it has been untrue." He spoke anonymously in line with department policy.

A particularly outlandish example of a U.S. editorial, printed in the Investor's Business Daily, claimed that renowned physicist Stephen Hawking, who is disabled, "wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."

Hawking, who was born and lives in Britain, personally debunked the claim. "I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the NHS," he told The Guardian newspaper. Investor's Business Daily has since corrected the editorial.

As the debate over how best to look after American patients rages on, Britain's socialized health care system has increasingly found itself being drawn into the argument. Critics of the Obama administration's plan to overhaul US health care say the president is seeking to model the U.S. system on that of Britain or Canada - places they paint as countries where patients linger for months on waiting lists and are forbidden from paying for their own medication.

A Republican National Committee ad said that in the U.K. "individuals lose their right to make their own health care choices." Another ad launched earlier this month by the anti-tax group Club for Growth claimed that government bureaucrats in Britain had calculated six months of life to be worth $22,750. "Under their socialized system, if your treatment costs more, you're out of luck," the ad says, as footage of an elderly man weeping at a woman's bedside alternate with clips of the Union Jack and Big Ben.
The online attacks on Britain's health care system have been paired with strident criticism from Republican lawmakers.

In an interview widely interpreted here as an attack on the U.K., Republican Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa told a local radio station last week that "countries that have government-run health care" would not have given Sen. Edward Kennedy, who suffers from a brain tumor, the same standard of care as in the U.S. because he is too old. Another Republican, Congressman Paul Broun of Georgia, said that the U.K. and Canada "don't have the appreciation of life as we do in our society, evidently."
The criticism, widely covered in the U.K. media, has clearly stung Britain's left-leaning Labour government. The Department of Health took the unusual step of contacting The Associated Press and e-mailing it a three-page rebuttal to what it said were misconceptions about the NHS being bandied about in the U.S. media - each one followed with the words: "Not true."

At the top of the list was the idea that a patient in his late 70s would not be treated for a brain tumor because he was too old - a transparent reference to Grassley's comments about Kennedy.
And what of Republicans' claim that British patients are robbed of their medical choices? False again, the department said.

"Everyone who is cared for by the NHS in England has formal rights to make choices about the service that they receive," it said in its rebuttal.

Then followed a fact sheet comparing selected statistics such as health spending per capita, infant mortality, life expectancy, and more. Each one showed England outperforming its trans-Atlantic counterpart.
The British government offers health care for free at the point of need, a service pioneered by Labour in 1948. In the six decades since, its promise of universal medical care, from cradle to grave, is taken for granted by Britons to such an extent that politicians - even fiscal conservatives - are loath to attack it.
But the NHS faces significant challenges, not least a multi-billion pound (dollar) deficit predicted to open up over the next five years. It has its critics too, particularly cancer patients who complain that the government refuses to cover costlier drugs, leaving those who need expensive treatments to pay for them out of pocket.
Nevertheless, many in the British press bristled at the criticism from America's right wing.

"How dare the Republicans bad-mouth our free health care system?" Guardian columnist Michele Hanson wrote Wednesday. "If I'd been born in the U.S., I'd probably be dead by now."



(http://www.pluck.com/)

ib1yysguy
08-13-2009, 02:33 PM
Imagine that. The healthcare lobby lying about something.

I'd be more surprised if they were caught being honest about something.

uscitizen
08-13-2009, 02:33 PM
Strange and risky. Many british companies have vast investments in US the US healthcare industry.

ib1yysguy
08-13-2009, 02:34 PM
Imagine that. The healthcare lobby lying about something.

I'd be more surprised if they were caught being honest about something.

cawacko
08-13-2009, 02:37 PM
Oh no, are a couple of blokes upset? Have them go to the nearest pub throw back a few pints and go home with the nearest buck tooth girl they see and their feelings will be better in the morning.

cancel2 2022
08-13-2009, 02:42 PM
Oh no, are a couple of blokes upset? Have them go to the nearest pub throw back a few pints and go home with the nearest buck tooth girl they see and their feelings will be better in the morning.

Good God Cawacko, this not worthy of you what has happened since you migrated over here from the WOT?

cawacko
08-13-2009, 02:48 PM
Good God Cawacko, this not worthy of you what has happened since you migrated over here from the WOT?

Haha, come on I can't crack one joke at the expense of the Brits? I have a good friend in London who I met when he worked for six months in the U.S. and he's a great guy. In typical guy fashion we love to go back and forth at each other and (respectfully) joking about each other's country so that's where I was coming from. I love the Brits because when I visited London they made great jokes about the French. :)

cancel2 2022
08-13-2009, 02:55 PM
Haha, come on I can't crack one joke at the expense of the Brits? I have a good friend in London who I met when he worked for six months in the U.S. and he's a great guy. In typical guy fashion we love to go back and forth at each other and (respectfully) joking about each other's country so that's where I was coming from. I love the Brits because when I visited London they made great jokes about the French. :)

Did you examine his teeth?

cawacko
08-13-2009, 02:57 PM
Did you examine his teeth?

Haha, no but he had a very beautiful wife and she had good teeth!!! I was like where did you find her??? She was one fine bird.

cancel2 2022
08-13-2009, 03:08 PM
Haha, no but he had a very beautiful wife and she had good teeth!!! I was like where did you find her??? She was one fine bird.

Here are a few French jokes maybe you've heard them before?

Q: What does "Maginot" mean in German?
A: Welcome!

Q: How do you get a Frenchman out of a bath tub?
A: Throw in a bar of soap.

Q: Why do French naval ships have glass bottoms?
A: To see all their other ships.

Q: Why wasn`t Christ born in France?
A: Because they couldn`t find three wise men and a virgin.

cancel2 2022
08-13-2009, 03:16 PM
Imagine that. The healthcare lobby lying about something.

I'd be more surprised if they were caught being honest about something.

I heard on the radio this morning that the US spends 17% of GDP on healthcare, the figure in the UK is around 9%. The US system suffers from a huge overhead of admin costs.

cawacko
08-13-2009, 03:32 PM
Here are a few French jokes maybe you've heard them before?

Q: What does "Maginot" mean in German?
A: Welcome!

Q: How do you get a Frenchman out of a bath tub?
A: Throw in a bar of soap.

Q: Why do French naval ships have glass bottoms?
A: To see all their other ships.

Q: Why wasn`t Christ born in France?
A: Because they couldn`t find three wise men and a virgin.

Haha, that is great!

uscitizen
08-13-2009, 03:33 PM
Profit.

christiefan915
08-13-2009, 03:42 PM
It's nice to see that not all Americans have the lost the plot on the NHS.

By RAPHAEL G. SATTER - Associated Press Writer



LONDON -- Britain's health care service says it is sick of being lied about.
Pilloried by right-wing critics of President Barack Obama's health care plan, Britain's National Health Service, known here as the NHS, is fighting back.
"People have been saying some untruths in the States," a spokesman for Britain Department of Health said in a telephone interview. "There's been all these ridiculous claims made by the American health lobby about Obama's health care plan ... and they've used the NHS as an example. A lot of it has been untrue." He spoke anonymously in line with department policy.

A particularly outlandish example of a U.S. editorial, printed in the Investor's Business Daily, claimed that renowned physicist Stephen Hawking, who is disabled, "wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."

Hawking, who was born and lives in Britain, personally debunked the claim. "I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the NHS," he told The Guardian newspaper. Investor's Business Daily has since corrected the editorial.

As the debate over how best to look after American patients rages on, Britain's socialized health care system has increasingly found itself being drawn into the argument. Critics of the Obama administration's plan to overhaul US health care say the president is seeking to model the U.S. system on that of Britain or Canada - places they paint as countries where patients linger for months on waiting lists and are forbidden from paying for their own medication.

A Republican National Committee ad said that in the U.K. "individuals lose their right to make their own health care choices." Another ad launched earlier this month by the anti-tax group Club for Growth claimed that government bureaucrats in Britain had calculated six months of life to be worth $22,750. "Under their socialized system, if your treatment costs more, you're out of luck," the ad says, as footage of an elderly man weeping at a woman's bedside alternate with clips of the Union Jack and Big Ben.
The online attacks on Britain's health care system have been paired with strident criticism from Republican lawmakers.

In an interview widely interpreted here as an attack on the U.K., Republican Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa told a local radio station last week that "countries that have government-run health care" would not have given Sen. Edward Kennedy, who suffers from a brain tumor, the same standard of care as in the U.S. because he is too old. Another Republican, Congressman Paul Broun of Georgia, said that the U.K. and Canada "don't have the appreciation of life as we do in our society, evidently."
The criticism, widely covered in the U.K. media, has clearly stung Britain's left-leaning Labour government. The Department of Health took the unusual step of contacting The Associated Press and e-mailing it a three-page rebuttal to what it said were misconceptions about the NHS being bandied about in the U.S. media - each one followed with the words: "Not true."

At the top of the list was the idea that a patient in his late 70s would not be treated for a brain tumor because he was too old - a transparent reference to Grassley's comments about Kennedy.
And what of Republicans' claim that British patients are robbed of their medical choices? False again, the department said.

"Everyone who is cared for by the NHS in England has formal rights to make choices about the service that they receive," it said in its rebuttal.

Then followed a fact sheet comparing selected statistics such as health spending per capita, infant mortality, life expectancy, and more. Each one showed England outperforming its trans-Atlantic counterpart.
The British government offers health care for free at the point of need, a service pioneered by Labour in 1948. In the six decades since, its promise of universal medical care, from cradle to grave, is taken for granted by Britons to such an extent that politicians - even fiscal conservatives - are loath to attack it.
But the NHS faces significant challenges, not least a multi-billion pound (dollar) deficit predicted to open up over the next five years. It has its critics too, particularly cancer patients who complain that the government refuses to cover costlier drugs, leaving those who need expensive treatments to pay for them out of pocket.
Nevertheless, many in the British press bristled at the criticism from America's right wing.

"How dare the Republicans bad-mouth our free health care system?" Guardian columnist Michele Hanson wrote Wednesday. "If I'd been born in the U.S., I'd probably be dead by now."



(http://www.pluck.com/)

Fantastic article, thanks so much for posting it. I'm so sick of RW's posting lies about countries probably most have never visited, and about health plans they've never used. I'm glad all of you from other countries post facts about your plans, even though the ones who really need to listen will disregard them.

cancel2 2022
08-13-2009, 03:51 PM
Fantastic article, thanks so much for posting it. I'm so sick of RW's posting lies about countries probably most have never visited, and about health plans they've never used. I'm glad all of you from other countries post facts about your plans, even though the ones who really need to listen will disregard them.

It is also worthwhile pointing out that many companies provide private healthcare as a fringe benefit, which supplements the NHS. My company uses BUPA (http://www.bupa.co.uk/about/asp/history/index.asp) which is run as a non-profit company.

christiefan915
08-13-2009, 05:17 PM
It is also worthwhile pointing out that many companies provide private healthcare as a fringe benefit, which supplements the NHS. My company uses BUPA (http://www.bupa.co.uk/about/asp/history/index.asp) which is run as a non-profit company.

I looked at this online. How does it work? Does it give you additional products and services? Why do you need this, besides the NHS coverage?

FUCK THE POLICE
08-13-2009, 08:22 PM
It's funny that, like the UK gun ban, the UK's healthcare system is much more controversial in America than in the UK.

belme1201
08-13-2009, 10:02 PM
Oh no, are a couple of blokes upset? Have them go to the nearest pub throw back a few pints and go home with the nearest buck tooth girl they see and their feelings will be better in the morning.

I'm all for that, I love a cold lager and pub grub, my idea of a grand afternoon, though my English lassie days are over since my Cuban experience. All I can do is smile(on the QT). HOWEVER, Grassley is lying, I can vouch for that having experienced the Brit system myself. He's like an evil Howdy Doody.
I've been trying for a decade to get my daughter and family to leave London and come back to Fla.. The number one reason given for staying is the Brit system when compared to our system, too costly, too risky, too much worry about what could happen in the event of a future catastrophe. My son in Germany gives me the same reasons. They both think we, here in the US, are crazy.

charver
08-14-2009, 01:59 AM
An article which sums things up nicely.


AMERICANS WITHOUT HEALTH INSURANCE ATTACK PLAN TO GIVE THEM HEALTH INSURANCE

FAT, stupid Americans with no health insurance have attacked plans to stop them dying so easily.

Across the United States poor people who are told what to think by television said President Obama's plan to give them free healthcare could lead to them being treated in a hospital that was not run by the Chicago Mafia.

Bill McKay, a retired shitkicker and Fox News analyst, from Kentucky, said: "I would rather replace my own hip using a rusty spoon than wait two months to have it done in a communist hospital, by some coffee-coloured faggot doctor who will then eat my unborn child to celebrate the end of Ramadan."

Barbara Hayes, a God-fearer, from Arkansas, added: "Ah see'd some woman from England on the Fox News sayin' her muslim communist doctor would only give her the good medicines if she denounced Jesus. Ah ain't denouncin' Jesus fir nobody, no siree."

But Dr Tom Logan, head of public health at the Institute for Studies, said: "The key difference between the United States and Britain is that we treat poor people rather than leaving them to die in a skip.

"It may take a few weeks or even months, and not everyone is happy about that, but we do at least all agree that it is marginally better than the skip."

He added: "Rich people have a thing called 'BUPA'. No-one know what it stands for and some people say it sounds as if it might be Indian. But it means you get your own room, quick treatment, nice food, and you get fawned over by nurses who were just a bit too sexy for the NHS."

Meanwhile Conservative leader David Cameron was forced to defend the NHS after Tory MEP Daniel Hannan's ego appeared on Fox News claiming Britain's health system was 'worse than a lifetime of anal warts'.

A Conservative spokesman said: "We're not really sure what Daniel Hannan's problem is with the NHS. Perhaps they were unable to save his hair."

Stephen Malley, professor of American History at Reading University, added: "To be fair to Fox News and the Republicans, they do have a principled objection to socialised medicine based largely on the fact that a black man won the election.

"The thing you must always remember about the American right wing is that they are basically the baddies in a film."

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/americans-without-health-insurance-attack-plan-to-give-them-health-insurance-200908141981/

cancel2 2022
08-14-2009, 02:44 AM
An article which sums things up nicely.

Fugging brilliant.

FUCK THE POLICE
08-14-2009, 02:47 AM
Fugging brilliant.

Here comes the prerequisite British circle-jerk.

charver
08-14-2009, 02:58 AM
Here comes the prerequisite British jack-off.

Oh yeah, baby.

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/charver-x/spill.jpg

Topspin
08-14-2009, 05:15 AM
Some canadian dude was on progressive radio saying how Canadians would never think of suing doctors. Wonder if its like that in Briatan, and do we have too many ambulance chaser's suing doctors.

Mott the Hoople
08-14-2009, 07:33 AM
Haha, no but he had a very beautiful wife and she had good teeth!!! I was like where did you find her??? She was one fine bird.
I have a cousin who married a UK girl and she's a hotty. She's a tall slender and busty blonde with that lovely sing-song voice British ladies have. Not only that, when she sun bathes at home she does it Euro style. Topless in a g-string. Needless to say the neighbor ladies hate her. :)

She also has that British underplayed sarcastic wit. I'm often the only one who got her jokes (God knows my cousin didn't but he's a rather humorless CPA.).

Mott the Hoople
08-14-2009, 07:39 AM
Here are a few French jokes maybe you've heard them before?

Q: What does "Maginot" mean in German?
A: Welcome!

Q: How do you get a Frenchman out of a bath tub?
A: Throw in a bar of soap.

Q: Why do French naval ships have glass bottoms?
A: To see all their other ships.

Q: Why wasn`t Christ born in France?
A: Because they couldn`t find three wise men and a virgin.
Here's an old one.

What's heaven in Europe?

Heaven in Europe is French Chef, a German Egnineer and a British Bobby.

What is hell in Europe?

Hell in Europe is a French Engineer, A British Chef and a German Policeman.

cancel2 2022
08-14-2009, 08:18 AM
Some canadian dude was on progressive radio saying how Canadians would never think of suing doctors. Wonder if its like that in Britain, and do we have too many ambulance chaser's suing doctors.

We imported your compensation culture back in the late 90s when Tony Blair allowed no win fee to save on legal aid claims.

http://topnews.us/content/23386-nhs-clinical-negligence-compensation-figures-rise

uscitizen
08-14-2009, 09:00 AM
An article which sums things up nicely.

LOL, great stuff Charver and thanks for the post.
That does pretty much sum up america and health care reform.

Canceled2
08-14-2009, 09:15 AM
But the NHS faces significant challenges, not least a multi-billion pound (dollar) deficit predicted to open up over the next five years. It has its critics too, particularly cancer patients who complain that the government refuses to cover costlier drugs, leaving those who need expensive treatments to pay for them out of pocket.
Nevertheless, many in the British press bristled at the criticism from America's right wing.

"How dare the Republicans bad-mouth our free health care system?" Guardian columnist Michele Hanson wrote Wednesday. "If I'd been born in the U.S., I'd probably be dead by now."

Yes, and here it is the only honest bit in the whole piece. Imagine the system under attack defending itself what a shocker!!!...but here we have those who use it, as its critics, and the enormous cost it is having economically!

cawacko
08-14-2009, 09:21 AM
Oh yeah, baby.

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n140/charver-x/spill.jpg

Alright dammit, i know I'm an idiot when it comes to a lot of technology (among other things) but how do you download a picture like that again on this site? I had something I spent 30 minutes the other night trying to download and it ended not only with me failing but me also coming very close to going Office Space on my computer. Thank you for any help.

Cypress
08-14-2009, 09:38 AM
I wonder why those elderly, irate teabaggers at those town halls aren't demanding that someone take away their government medicare and eliminate the program?

FUCK THE POLICE
08-14-2009, 09:45 AM
Yes, and here it is the only honest bit in the whole piece. Imagine the system under attack defending itself what a shocker!!!...but here we have those who use it, as its critics, and the enormous cost it is having economically!

Yes, a MULTI(!!!!!!!)-billion dollar deficit out of a several trillion dollar economy. Heinous costs for heatlhcare!

Everyone ignore the fact that America's public healthcare system costs more per capita than Britians! That wouldn't be honest, since it is fact!

Damocles
08-14-2009, 10:46 AM
Alright dammit, i know I'm an idiot when it comes to a lot of technology (among other things) but how do you download a picture like that again on this site? I had something I spent 30 minutes the other night trying to download and it ended not only with me failing but me also coming very close to going Office Space on my computer. Thank you for any help.
Right click, go to "Save image as" click on that, pick the file you want it in, hit "save" and you are done.

cancel2 2022
08-14-2009, 11:38 AM
Yes, and here it is the only honest bit in the whole piece. Imagine the system under attack defending itself what a shocker!!!...but here we have those who use it, as its critics, and the enormous cost it is having economically!

Whereas in the US system you can have any cancer drug you want as long as you are willing to pay potentially hundred of thousands for the privilege. By the way, it was recently announced that any cancer patient that cannot get a particular drug on the NHS can now pay the cost themselves. I left the last paragraph in deliberately to see if you would bite and lo and behold you bit. In Europe, we accept that the more well off have a duty to care for the sick and poor, it would seem that the nice Christian lady does not do compassion but is more worried about her own pocket book.

cawacko
08-14-2009, 11:55 AM
Right click, go to "Save image as" click on that, pick the file you want it in, hit "save" and you are done.

Ok, so this is a picture off an e-mail someone sent me. My only option is to save it as a bitmap which I did to my desktop. But how do I copy it from there and post it on this site is what I was wondering?

cawacko
08-14-2009, 12:02 PM
Whereas in the US system you can have any cancer drug you want as long as you are willing to pay potentially hundred of thousands for the privilege. By the way, it was recently announced that any cancer patient that cannot get a particular drug on the NHS can now pay the cost themselves. I left the last paragraph in deliberately to see if you would bite and lo and behold you bit. In Europe, we accept that the more well off have a duty to care for the sick and poor, it would seem that the nice Christian lady does not do compassion but is more worried about her own pocket book.

I actually attended a fundraiser for UC San Francisco hospital which was to raise money for particular types of procedures for kids (I forget the exact surgery). I would argue Americans are very generous with giving to the needy and my example is one of just many many untold number of similar fund raising events.

The argument comes down to how involved should government be.

Damocles
08-14-2009, 12:12 PM
Ok, so this is a picture off an e-mail someone sent me. My only option is to save it as a bitmap which I did to my desktop. But how do I copy it from there and post it on this site is what I was wondering?
Ah, upload the file into your picture album (accessed from the UserCP). After it is uploaded pull up the picture, below it you will see one link you can copy that is just a url, the other will be with BB boxes around it, copy that one, put it in any post and POW you have a picture.

cawacko
08-14-2009, 12:14 PM
Ah, upload the file into your picture album (accessed from the UserCP). After it is uploaded pull up the picture, below it you will see one link you can copy that is just a url, the other will be with BB boxes around it, copy that one, put it in any post and POW you have a picture.

Word! Thank you, I'll try it.

cawacko
08-14-2009, 02:33 PM
Ah, upload the file into your picture album (accessed from the UserCP). After it is uploaded pull up the picture, below it you will see one link you can copy that is just a url, the other will be with BB boxes around it, copy that one, put it in any post and POW you have a picture.

Alright dude, I saved the picture to MyPhotos on the computer. I don't see either of those options below that you are referring to. Right clicking on the picture Copy is not one of the options to show up.

And remember you are talking to an idiot. Please use the most layman terms.

FUCK THE POLICE
08-14-2009, 02:47 PM
You have to upload the file. Saving it to a local directory on your system isn't going to get it on Damo's server.

cawacko
08-14-2009, 02:52 PM
You have to upload the file. Saving it to a local directory on your system isn't going to get it on Damo's server.

Thank you. This is where I'm really an idiot. How do I do something as basic as uploading the file?

cancel2 2022
08-14-2009, 04:25 PM
I actually attended a fundraiser for UC San Francisco hospital which was to raise money for particular types of procedures for kids (I forget the exact surgery). I would argue Americans are very generous with giving to the needy and my example is one of just many many untold number of similar fund raising events.

The argument comes down to how involved should government be.

I think that UHC can only be facilitated by central government especially somewhere like the US with so many different state systems.

Damocles
08-14-2009, 07:25 PM
Alright dude, I saved the picture to MyPhotos on the computer. I don't see either of those options below that you are referring to. Right clicking on the picture Copy is not one of the options to show up.

And remember you are talking to an idiot. Please use the most layman terms.
Your user control panel here, in there you will find a link for picture albums, you can create an album and upload a picture into it. Once you have uploaded the picture into the album if you click on the picture it will bring it up with two link choices below it. Copy the one with [img] tags around it and put it into a post.

FUCK THE POLICE
08-14-2009, 07:42 PM
Click on "go advanced".

At the top where all the font stuff is, you should see a paper clip. Click on it.

This should open up a "manage attachments" window.

Under "upload file from your computer", press "browse".

Nows the tough part. You have to browse to my photos and select the photo. I just hope you know what I'm talking about there.

Then press "save". It should upload it.

Exit out of the window, and press on the "down" arrow next to the paper clip. A list should pop down, with a single option named after your photo. Click on that option, and it will insert the picture into your message.

FUCK THE POLICE
08-14-2009, 07:42 PM
Your user control panel here, in there you will find a link for picture albums, you can create an album and upload a picture into it. Once you have uploaded the picture into the album if you click on the picture it will bring it up with two link choices below it. Copy the one with [img] tags around it and put it into a post.

Or you could use that method.

You could also use flickr.