Rising Ocean Acidity: 'The Other Carbon Problem'

[Don Quixote]

oops...now what

By Doyle Rice What happens if there's no more "shell" in shellfish?
A new documentary on Discovery's Planet Green network, Acid Test: The Global Challenge of Ocean Acidification (premiering tonight, 10:30 p.m. ET/PT, and repeating throughout the month), explores this and other questions related to ocean acidification, a little-known but potentially disastrous consequence of global warming.
Known by some scientists as "the other carbon problem," the increased amounts of atmospheric carbon dioxide (caused by the burning of fossil fuels) also have been absorbed into the world's oceans during the past 200 years, the documentary says. The oceans cover 70% of the planet's surface.
The additional carbon not only warms the oceans, but it's also radically transforming their chemistry, says Lisa Suatoni of the Natural Resources Defense Council, which produced the film. As the carbon reacts with the seawater, it's rapidly making the water more acidic.
How rapidly? "Ocean acidity has increased by 30% since the Industrial Revolution," Suatoni says. She says oceanic carbon dioxide may double again by the end of the century.
"This may challenge life on a scale that hasn't happened for tens of millions of years," narrator Sigourney Weaver says in the film.
The increased acidity corrodes seashells, and thousands of species build shells around them to live. "It removes the building block for producing shells," says Steve Palumbi of Stanford University. "A lot of organisms may not be able to survive."
But is the fear of ocean acidification overblown? Perhaps, say the authors of a study published in May in the academic journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
The authors of the study, led by Rebecca Gooding of the University of British Columbia in Vancouver, dispute the belief that ocean acidification harms all marine life forms and urged that caution should be taken when examining "overgeneralized predictions."
In addition to a battery of top ocean acidification scientists, including leading expert Ken Caldiera of the Carnegie Institution for Science, Acid Test infuses some regular-guy perspective from commercial fisherman Bruce Steele. He warns that ocean acidity puts many prime shellfish species at risk -- such as oysters, lobsters and Dungeness crabs -- all of which he and his fellow shellfishermen depend on for their livelihood.
"Either we change what we're doing on land or it will have profound effects on fisheries as we know it," he says.
The film also touches on the threats to the world's coral reefs, which can be damaged by ocean acidification as well as rising water temperatures. (c) Copyright 2009 USA TODAY, a division of Gannett Co. Inc.

[Mott the Hoople]

kinda lacking in data there. For example, what were the pKA and pH of the pre-industrial revolution oceans? Considering both scales are logarithmic a 30% increase in either, really isn't that much of an increase. This is the type of reporting that one has to be careful not to be alarmist about.

[Don Quixote]

kinda lacking in data there. For example, what were the pKA and pH of the pre-industrial revolution oceans? Considering both scales are logarithmic a 30% increase in either, really isn't that much of an increase. This is the type of reporting that one has to be careful not to be alarmist about.

i posted a comment about this a few months ago

it does not take a large delta to screw with the ph affecting the Ca - consider how large the ocean is and a 30% rise is enormous

[DamnYankee]

My guess is that the amount of acidity requires to knock the pH down to its buffered level of 7.4 is extremely large- much larger than man could achieve by burning all of the coal and oil in the ground.

[Mott the Hoople]

that and considering there's no data on pre-industrial revolution pH/pKA of the ocean (the concepts were not known at the time). I'm very skeptical about this claim for a 30% increase. What data is this claim based on?

Actually, I'd like to see your link. SM is correct in that it would take an enormous amount of CO2 absorbed in the ocean to change the buffered adibiatic equilibrium potential of sea water (pH 7.4). Even then A 30% increase in acidity would only mean a worst case scenario pH change of around 7.1 which granted could have significant impact on some forms of sea life but, again, I'm not seeing the data to show a causal link here. SM could be right here. For example, one underground volcanic eruption can dissolve a much higher volume of acids into the ocean then the levels of CO2 that would be absorbed under ambient conditions, say in a years time.

[cancel2 2022]

oops...now what

By Doyle Rice What happens if there's no more "shell" in shellfish?
A new documentary on Discovery's Planet Green network, Acid Test: The Global Challenge of Ocean Acidification (premiering tonight, 10:30 p.m. ET/PT, and repeating throughout the month), explores this and other questions related to ocean acidification, a little-known but potentially disastrous consequence of global warming.
Known by some scientists as "the other carbon problem," the increased amounts of atmospheric carbon dioxide (caused by the burning of fossil fuels) also have been absorbed into the world's oceans during the past 200 years, the documentary says. The oceans cover 70% of the planet's surface.
The additional carbon not only warms the oceans, but it's also radically transforming their chemistry, says Lisa Suatoni of the Natural Resources Defense Council, which produced the film. As the carbon reacts with the seawater, it's rapidly making the water more acidic.
How rapidly? "Ocean acidity has increased by 30% since the Industrial Revolution," Suatoni says. She says oceanic carbon dioxide may double again by the end of the century.
"This may challenge life on a scale that hasn't happened for tens of millions of years," narrator Sigourney Weaver says in the film.
The increased acidity corrodes seashells, and thousands of species build shells around them to live. "It removes the building block for producing shells," says Steve Palumbi of Stanford University. "A lot of organisms may not be able to survive."
But is the fear of ocean acidification overblown? Perhaps, say the authors of a study published in May in the academic journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
The authors of the study, led by Rebecca Gooding of the University of British Columbia in Vancouver, dispute the belief that ocean acidification harms all marine life forms and urged that caution should be taken when examining "overgeneralized predictions."
In addition to a battery of top ocean acidification scientists, including leading expert Ken Caldiera of the Carnegie Institution for Science, Acid Test infuses some regular-guy perspective from commercial fisherman Bruce Steele. He warns that ocean acidity puts many prime shellfish species at risk -- such as oysters, lobsters and Dungeness crabs -- all of which he and his fellow shellfishermen depend on for their livelihood.
"Either we change what we're doing on land or it will have profound effects on fisheries as we know it," he says.
The film also touches on the threats to the world's coral reefs, which can be damaged by ocean acidification as well as rising water temperatures. (c) Copyright 2009 USA TODAY, a division of Gannett Co. Inc.

Yet a report in the Guardian says exactly the opposite!!

Sea absorbing less CO2, scientists discover


Scientists have issued a new warning about climate change (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/climate-change) after discovering a sudden and dramatic collapse in the amount of carbon emissions (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/carbon-emissions) absorbed by the Sea of Japan.


The shift has alarmed experts, who blame global warming.
The world's oceans soak up about 11bn tonnes of human carbon dioxide pollution each year, about a quarter of all produced, and even a slight weakening of this natural process would leave significantly more CO2 in the atmosphere. That would require countries to adopt much stricter emissions targets to prevent dangerous rises in temperature.


Kitack Lee, an associate professor at Pohang University of Science and Technology, who led the research, says the discovery is the "very first observation that directly relates ocean CO2 uptake change to ocean warming".


He says the warmer conditions disrupt a process known as "ventilation" - the way seawater flows and mixes and drags absorbed CO2 from surface waters to the depths. He warns that the effect is probably not confined to the Sea of Japan. It could also affect CO2 uptake in the Atlantic and Southern oceans.


"Our result in the East Sea unequivocally demonstrated that oceanic uptake of CO2 has been directly affected by warming-induced weakening of vertical ventilation," he says. Korea argues that the Sea of Japan should be renamed the East Sea, because it says the former is a legacy of Japan's military expansion in the region.


Lee adds: "In other words, the increase in atmospheric temperature due to global warming can profoundly influence the ocean ventilation, thereby decreasing the uptake rate of CO2."


Working with Pavel Tishchenko of the Russian Pacific Oceanological Institute in Vladivostok, Lee and his colleague Geun-Ha Park used a cruise on the Professor Gagarinskiy, a Russian research vessel, last May to take seawater samples from 24 sites across the Sea of Japan.



They compared the dissolved CO2 in the seawater with similar samples collected in 1992 and 1999. The results showed the amount of CO2 absorbed during 1999 to 2007 was half the level recorded from 1992 to 1999.


Crucially, the study revealed that ocean mixing, a process required to deposit carbon in deep water (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/water), where it is more likely to stay, appears to have significantly weakened.



Announcing their results in the journal Geophysical Research Letters, the scientists say: "The striking feature is that nearly all anthropogenic CO2 taken up in the recent period was confined to waters less than 300 metres in depth. The rapid and substantial reduction ... is surprising and is attributed to considerable weakening of overturning circulation."



Corinne Le Quéré, an expert in ocean carbon storage at the University of East Anglia, said: "We don't think the ocean is just going to completely stop taking our carbon dioxide emissions, but if the effect weakens then it has real consequences for the atmosphere."

[belme1201]

kinda lacking in data there. For example, what were the pKA and pH of the pre-industrial revolution oceans? Considering both scales are logarithmic a 30% increase in either, really isn't that much of an increase. This is the type of reporting that one has to be careful not to be alarmist about.

It isn't alarmist to go down to the Keys to see the coral reefs being killed off in just a matter of decades. The wildlife they supported is declining at an even faster rate. The shore bird population is said to be down by 90%. We lived there and loved it, but now my wife can't bear to go back for a visit and see what is happening. The same thing is happening world wide. Sorry if that sounds "alarmist".
Screw logarithms, they're dying, my eyes and millions of others have seen and experienced what mathematics cannot and will not explain, prove, or disprove. I've heard the word "careful" so much lately I'm ready to puke.

[belme1201]

Yet a report in the Guardian says exactly the opposite!!

Sea absorbing less CO2, scientists discover


Scientists have issued a new warning about climate change (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/climate-change) after discovering a sudden and dramatic collapse in the amount of carbon emissions (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/carbon-emissions) absorbed by the Sea of Japan.


The shift has alarmed experts, who blame global warming.
The world's oceans soak up about 11bn tonnes of human carbon dioxide pollution each year, about a quarter of all produced, and even a slight weakening of this natural process would leave significantly more CO2 in the atmosphere. That would require countries to adopt much stricter emissions targets to prevent dangerous rises in temperature.


Kitack Lee, an associate professor at Pohang University of Science and Technology, who led the research, says the discovery is the "very first observation that directly relates ocean CO2 uptake change to ocean warming".


He says the warmer conditions disrupt a process known as "ventilation" - the way seawater flows and mixes and drags absorbed CO2 from surface waters to the depths. He warns that the effect is probably not confined to the Sea of Japan. It could also affect CO2 uptake in the Atlantic and Southern oceans.


"Our result in the East Sea unequivocally demonstrated that oceanic uptake of CO2 has been directly affected by warming-induced weakening of vertical ventilation," he says. Korea argues that the Sea of Japan should be renamed the East Sea, because it says the former is a legacy of Japan's military expansion in the region.


Lee adds: "In other words, the increase in atmospheric temperature due to global warming can profoundly influence the ocean ventilation, thereby decreasing the uptake rate of CO2."


Working with Pavel Tishchenko of the Russian Pacific Oceanological Institute in Vladivostok, Lee and his colleague Geun-Ha Park used a cruise on the Professor Gagarinskiy, a Russian research vessel, last May to take seawater samples from 24 sites across the Sea of Japan.



They compared the dissolved CO2 in the seawater with similar samples collected in 1992 and 1999. The results showed the amount of CO2 absorbed during 1999 to 2007 was half the level recorded from 1992 to 1999.


Crucially, the study revealed that ocean mixing, a process required to deposit carbon in deep water (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/water), where it is more likely to stay, appears to have significantly weakened.



Announcing their results in the journal Geophysical Research Letters, the scientists say: "The striking feature is that nearly all anthropogenic CO2 taken up in the recent period was confined to waters less than 300 metres in depth. The rapid and substantial reduction ... is surprising and is attributed to considerable weakening of overturning circulation."



Corinne Le Quéré, an expert in ocean carbon storage at the University of East Anglia, said: "We don't think the ocean is just going to completely stop taking our carbon dioxide emissions, but if the effect weakens then it has real consequences for the atmosphere."
.

[Fish]

Is the Guardian Murdoch?

Nah, the Guardian is a good source.

[Canceled1]

Nah, the Guardian is a good source.

Yeah, Tuna Melt. Good source.

[meme]

just start killing off all the humans, that will save the mother earth..

[Mott the Hoople]

Nah, the Guardian is a good source.Well there not Fox News but I was thinking along the line of peer reviewed sources.

[cancel2 2022]

just start killing off all the humans, that will save the mother earth..

We could start with you, especially with all the hot air that you generate.

[belme1201]

Nah, the Guardian is a good source.

I tried to change it but it was too late. I should have known better, but the subject is very personal to me. Thanks.

[meme]

We could start with you, especially with all the hot air that you generate.

if you are a man, isn't it men first..
and just what the hell is it you spew..cool air..

[cancel2 2022]

Well there not Fox News but I was thinking along the line of peer reviewed sources.

It was published in Geophysical Research Letters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geophysical_Research_Letters)

[cancel2 2022]

if you are a man, isn't it men first..
and just what the hell is it you spew..cool air..

We will make an exception in your case.

[meme]

We will make an exception in your case.


aww, nice of you..lady

[FUCK THE POLICE]

just start killing off all the humans, that will save the mother earth..

http://rzhblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/strawman.jpg

[DamnYankee]

just start killing off all the humans, that will save the mother earth.. That's liberals ultimate goal. I suggest that they start with themselves instead of just their own children.

[cancel2 2022]

Yet a report in the Guardian says exactly the opposite!!

Sea absorbing less CO2, scientists discover


Scientists have issued a new warning about climate change (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/climate-change) after discovering a sudden and dramatic collapse in the amount of carbon emissions (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/carbon-emissions) absorbed by the Sea of Japan.


The shift has alarmed experts, who blame global warming.
The world's oceans soak up about 11bn tonnes of human carbon dioxide pollution each year, about a quarter of all produced, and even a slight weakening of this natural process would leave significantly more CO2 in the atmosphere. That would require countries to adopt much stricter emissions targets to prevent dangerous rises in temperature.


Kitack Lee, an associate professor at Pohang University of Science and Technology, who led the research, says the discovery is the "very first observation that directly relates ocean CO2 uptake change to ocean warming".


He says the warmer conditions disrupt a process known as "ventilation" - the way seawater flows and mixes and drags absorbed CO2 from surface waters to the depths. He warns that the effect is probably not confined to the Sea of Japan. It could also affect CO2 uptake in the Atlantic and Southern oceans.


"Our result in the East Sea unequivocally demonstrated that oceanic uptake of CO2 has been directly affected by warming-induced weakening of vertical ventilation," he says. Korea argues that the Sea of Japan should be renamed the East Sea, because it says the former is a legacy of Japan's military expansion in the region.


Lee adds: "In other words, the increase in atmospheric temperature due to global warming can profoundly influence the ocean ventilation, thereby decreasing the uptake rate of CO2."


Working with Pavel Tishchenko of the Russian Pacific Oceanological Institute in Vladivostok, Lee and his colleague Geun-Ha Park used a cruise on the Professor Gagarinskiy, a Russian research vessel, last May to take seawater samples from 24 sites across the Sea of Japan.



They compared the dissolved CO2 in the seawater with similar samples collected in 1992 and 1999. The results showed the amount of CO2 absorbed during 1999 to 2007 was half the level recorded from 1992 to 1999.


Crucially, the study revealed that ocean mixing, a process required to deposit carbon in deep water (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/water), where it is more likely to stay, appears to have significantly weakened.



Announcing their results in the journal Geophysical Research Letters, the scientists say: "The striking feature is that nearly all anthropogenic CO2 taken up in the recent period was confined to waters less than 300 metres in depth. The rapid and substantial reduction ... is surprising and is attributed to considerable weakening of overturning circulation."



Corinne Le Quéré, an expert in ocean carbon storage at the University of East Anglia, said: "We don't think the ocean is just going to completely stop taking our carbon dioxide emissions, but if the effect weakens then it has real consequences for the atmosphere."

It is slightly dismaying that one lot of scientists are saying that the World's oceans are getting more acidic whilst another lot are saying that they are taking up a lot less. They can't both be right, can they?

[DamnYankee]

It is slightly dismaying that one lot of scientists are saying that the World's oceans are getting more acidic whilst another lot are saying that they are taking up a lot less. They can't both be right, can they?
The "acidic" crowd is lying.

[cancel2 2022]

The "acidic" crowd is lying.

You may be interested in the latest news from the CLOUD experiment currently being conducted at CERN, this is a lecture by Jasper Kirkby the lead scientist for the project.

http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1181073/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_experiment

[Cancel5]

You may be interested in the latest news from the CLOUD experiment currently being conducted at CERN, this is a lecture by Jasper Kirkby the lead scientist for the project.

http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1181073/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_experiment

http://www.businessinsider.com/military-analysts-say-global-warming-is-a-threat-to-our-security-2009-8

What will they say now?

[DamnYankee]

You may be interested in the latest news from the CLOUD experiment currently being conducted at CERN, this is a lecture by Jasper Kirkby the lead scientist for the project.

http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1181073/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_experiment Bottom line it for me, otherwise you're trolling.

[Don Quixote]

The "acidic" crowd is lying.

you hope

[Don Quixote]

Yet a report in the Guardian says exactly the opposite!!

Sea absorbing less CO2, scientists discover


Scientists have issued a new warning about climate change (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/climate-change) after discovering a sudden and dramatic collapse in the amount of carbon emissions (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/carbon-emissions) absorbed by the Sea of Japan.


The shift has alarmed experts, who blame global warming.
The world's oceans soak up about 11bn tonnes of human carbon dioxide pollution each year, about a quarter of all produced, and even a slight weakening of this natural process would leave significantly more CO2 in the atmosphere. That would require countries to adopt much stricter emissions targets to prevent dangerous rises in temperature.


Kitack Lee, an associate professor at Pohang University of Science and Technology, who led the research, says the discovery is the "very first observation that directly relates ocean CO2 uptake change to ocean warming".


He says the warmer conditions disrupt a process known as "ventilation" - the way seawater flows and mixes and drags absorbed CO2 from surface waters to the depths. He warns that the effect is probably not confined to the Sea of Japan. It could also affect CO2 uptake in the Atlantic and Southern oceans.


"Our result in the East Sea unequivocally demonstrated that oceanic uptake of CO2 has been directly affected by warming-induced weakening of vertical ventilation," he says. Korea argues that the Sea of Japan should be renamed the East Sea, because it says the former is a legacy of Japan's military expansion in the region.


Lee adds: "In other words, the increase in atmospheric temperature due to global warming can profoundly influence the ocean ventilation, thereby decreasing the uptake rate of CO2."


Working with Pavel Tishchenko of the Russian Pacific Oceanological Institute in Vladivostok, Lee and his colleague Geun-Ha Park used a cruise on the Professor Gagarinskiy, a Russian research vessel, last May to take seawater samples from 24 sites across the Sea of Japan.



They compared the dissolved CO2 in the seawater with similar samples collected in 1992 and 1999. The results showed the amount of CO2 absorbed during 1999 to 2007 was half the level recorded from 1992 to 1999.


Crucially, the study revealed that ocean mixing, a process required to deposit carbon in deep water (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/water), where it is more likely to stay, appears to have significantly weakened.



Announcing their results in the journal Geophysical Research Letters, the scientists say: "The striking feature is that nearly all anthropogenic CO2 taken up in the recent period was confined to waters less than 300 metres in depth. The rapid and substantial reduction ... is surprising and is attributed to considerable weakening of overturning circulation."



Corinne Le Quéré, an expert in ocean carbon storage at the University of East Anglia, said: "We don't think the ocean is just going to completely stop taking our carbon dioxide emissions, but if the effect weakens then it has real consequences for the atmosphere."

the CO2 exists, the problem is that we do not know precisely what it will do

it is not so much that the fresh and salt water masses absorb the CO2, but that the rain that feeds those masses does

where the CO2 goes and what it does presents an unknown problem

if those that say it does not present a problem are wrong, then we are screwed

also, it is not just the shell fish that are a problem, we can live live without shell fish (not so sure about other species) but can the micro organisms that live near the oceans surface survive the change in Ph change

[cancel2 2022]

Bottom line it for me, otherwise you're trolling.

Is that another way of saying simplify it for you?

[cancel2 2022]

Is that another way of saying simplify it for you?

Maybe this will help?

The concept of CLOUD is to construct a large aerosol chamber in which conditions anywhere in the atmosphere can be recreated and then to expose the chamber to a particle beam at CERN, which closely replicates natural cosmic rays. The chamber is equipped with a wide range of instrumentation to monitor and analyse its contents. In contrast with experiments in the atmosphere, CLOUD can compare processes when the cosmic ray beam is present and when it is not. In this way cosmic ray-aerosol-cloud microphysics can be studied under carefully controlled laboratory conditions.

http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1172365/files/SPSC-SR-046.pdf

[Mott the Hoople]

It is slightly dismaying that one lot of scientists are saying that the World's oceans are getting more acidic whilst another lot are saying that they are taking up a lot less. They can't both be right, can they?
Now you see whey SM and I are skeptical. Though I'm not pulling in politics. I just haven't seen enough data to be convinced.

[Mott the Hoople]

It was published in Geophysical Research Letters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geophysical_Research_Letters)That's just a Wiki link to GRL. What about the actual paper?

[Mott the Hoople]

You may be interested in the latest news from the CLOUD experiment currently being conducted at CERN, this is a lecture by Jasper Kirkby the lead scientist for the project.

http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1181073/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_experimentWhat does this have to do with increasing ocean acidity and it's biological impact?

[Mott the Hoople]

The "acidic" crowd is lying.You've never gone through peer review, have you? LOL

[Mott the Hoople]

Bottom line it for me, otherwise you're trolling.
I have to agree with SM here. I'm not seeing bottom line data from which I can draw a reasonable conclusion.

[Mott the Hoople]

the CO2 exists, the problem is that we do not know precisely what it will do

it is not so much that the fresh and salt water masses absorb the CO2, but that the rain that feeds those masses does

where the CO2 goes and what it does presents an unknown problem

if those that say it does not present a problem are wrong, then we are screwed

also, it is not just the shell fish that are a problem, we can live live without shell fish (not so sure about other species) but can the micro organisms that live near the oceans surface survive the change in Ph changeI think that's an over stated issue. First, ocean water is buffered. The quantity of CO2 required to cause any threshold change in pH would be tremendous and even if that occured the change in pH would be marginal, only a few tenths of a pH point. Certainly that can have an impact on the biological food chain but not such a great impact that one would not expect to see biological adaptation to the changing conditions. Hell that's been going on since the begining of life on this planet.

[DamnYankee]

You've never gone through peer review, have you? LOL Yes I have- they are typically less pleasant than a colonoscopy.

[Damocles]

Yes I have- they are typically less pleasant than a colonoscopy.
Much.

[Don Quixote]

I think that's an over stated issue. First, ocean water is buffered. The quantity of CO2 required to cause any threshold change in pH would be tremendous and even if that occured the change in pH would be marginal, only a few tenths of a pH point. Certainly that can have an impact on the biological food chain but not such a great impact that one would not expect to see biological adaptation to the changing conditions. Hell that's been going on since the begining of life on this planet.

the quantities involved are huge

as for the food chain, a few tenth of a ph can kill micro organisms

as for adaptation, yes it has been going on for eons,but sometimes it takes more time to adapt than is given and an ecology can collapse until a new ecology / equilibrium is established

like i said before, what if we are wrong...we are at the top of said food chain and for what ever reason global change is happening and has happened before...nature does not care about the animals in the food chain, they can always be replaced...ask the dinosaurs, some did survive, just not many

[tinfoil]

What does this have to do with increasing ocean acidity and it's biological impact?


LOL
Why not learn how cosmic ray flux correlates to cloud cover, and thus albedo changes? As the oceans warm, they absorb less CO2. It's all reliant on the sun spot activity, which disrupts cosmic rays and controls climate through cloud seeding and albedo changes.

You're only a few google searches away from all the info you need.

But of course, I have given you this, so you will ignore it

[tinfoil]

LOL not a peep. Totally clueless dolts

[cancel2 2022]

LOL
Why not learn how cosmic ray flux correlates to cloud cover, and thus albedo changes? As the oceans warm, they absorb less CO2. It's all reliant on the sun spot activity, which disrupts cosmic rays and controls climate through cloud seeding and albedo changes.

You're only a few google searches away from all the info you need.

But of course, I have given you this, so you will ignore it

The Sun entered sunspot cycle 24 last year but there has been virtually no sunspots since then, the most quiescent it's been since 1915. The theory states that this causes a solar wind minimum which in turn results in an increase of cosmic ray muons from deep space and ionisation of the atmosphere, more ionisation results in greater cloud formation.

http://www.solarstorms.org/CloudCover.html

[tinfoil]

Yep. Sun activity is at near historic lows and despite CO2 concentration continuing to climb, the global average temp has dropped off. This is evidence that cosmic ray flux does indeed affect abledo. David Archibald made predictions several years ago concerning this. You should google his work.

Another excellent resource to understand the solar cycle link is Tim Patterson, a Canadian government scientist who has a video that makes very compelling arguments that CO2 forcing is not responsible for driving climate.

[cancel2 2022]

Yep. Sun activity is at near historic lows and despite CO2 concentration continuing to climb, the global average temp has dropped off. This is evidence that cosmic ray flux does indeed affect abledo. David Archibald made predictions several years ago concerning this. You should google his work.

Another excellent resource to understand the solar cycle link is Tim Patterson, a Canadian government scientist who has a video that makes very compelling arguments that CO2 forcing is not responsible for driving climate.

I hadn't previously known about David Archibald so here is one for you, have you heard of Nir Shaviv?

http://www.sciencebits.com/CO2orSolar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nir_Shaviv

[tinfoil]

Yes, Nir Shaviv has the theory about the spiral arms of the galaxy and cycles of cosmic ray flux (derived from several proxies). Excellent stuff. He was demonized and said to be a shill for Exxon a few years back, but none of it was true. Even the lefties here gave up after I started posting stuff they couldn't refute and that the IPCC had not addressed.

Let's share what we know. Next year the CLOUD experiments take place at CERN. I'm really looking foward to the results. Verifying the cosmic ray link to cloud seeding is very important in not only stopping this CO2 nonsense, but for any true understanding of the climate system.

[tinfoil]

I found the link to Nir's spiral arm cosmic ray theory. Very interesting
http://www.sciencebits.com/ice-ages