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Fish
08-12-2009, 10:14 PM
It seems to me that this is supposed to be the "serious" forum and we're posting about essentially the same issues in a number of threads that move quickly and are hard to keep up with.

Let's make this the singular health care thread in the forum. We can continue to post new articles or links within one thread and keep an ongoing conversation.

Damo posted this in one of the other threads:


Yet you said Hillarycare was "like this". It isn't. And health care isn't "broken" it is simply expensive.

But it seems to me that it's broken because it's so expensive. It's a product that everyone needs, but not everyone has access to. The market failed here. That seems pretty clear to me.

Damocles
08-12-2009, 10:31 PM
It seems to me that this is supposed to be the "serious" forum and we're posting about essentially the same issues in a number of threads that move quickly and are hard to keep up with.

Let's make this the singular health care thread in the forum. We can continue to post new articles or links within one thread and keep an ongoing conversation.

Damo posted this in one of the other threads:



But it seems to me that it's broken because it's so expensive. It's a product that everyone needs, but not everyone has access to. The market failed here. That seems pretty clear to me.
Nah, your pickup isn't broken because it costs a lot to buy, it is just expensive.

We need to find out where the disconnect is. It is rising at a rate higher than any explanation can reasonably ascertain. There has to be some serious savings in there. In the interim we can create a program that will subsidize people who are in the "working poor" that need insurance. However, any government program that simply covers the cost will in effect hide this extreme cost from people without fixing the actual issue and the government program will fail too as it bankrupts the nation.

Expensive isn't the same thing as "broken", it is a problem that we can solve.

Fish
08-12-2009, 10:42 PM
Nah, your pickup isn't broken because it costs a lot to buy, it is just expensive.

We need to find out where the disconnect is. It is rising at a rate higher than any explanation can reasonably ascertain. There has to be some serious savings in there. In the interim we can create a program that will subsidize people who are in the "working poor" that need insurance. However, any government program that simply covers the cost will in effect hide this extreme cost from people without fixing the actual issue and the government program will fail too as it bankrupts the nation.

Expensive isn't the same thing as "broken", it is a problem that we can solve.

That's a bad analogy, but let's expand it. We live in a society where trucks are essential to financial security and personal health, but the trucks are so expensive that the people who need trucks the most can't afford to buy them.

Damocles
08-12-2009, 11:00 PM
That's a bad analogy, but let's expand it. We live in a society where trucks are essential to financial security and personal health, but the trucks are so expensive that the people who need trucks the most can't afford to buy them.
Again, we need a bridge to subsidize the cost of insurance for those who are in the donut hole. The poorest are covered, then there is a group that isn't, then the rest are. We need to fill that one hole with temporary help while we find a more permanent solution.

We'll do that by attacking the costs. I've said it myriad times on the board, the costs are rising at a rate that makes no sense and matches no indicators, this shows that there are some Pentagon Toilet Seat types of savings to be found. Instead we are simply covering it up, we drop some government on it then cover it in sand, but over time it will fester up again and again causing any program to fail. We must find the root cause of the problem and solve that, not just cover it with government.

I'd like to see a more centralized regulation on the health care insurance allowing people to find better and more fitting solutions to coverage costs, I'd like to see laws that force pharma to give us the same prices that they negotiate with other nations so that our necessary drugs aren't used to subsidize lower costs elsewhere...

These are just starters, but it will give us the time to find the right solution rather than just "any" solution because "Bush didn't do it"...

Fish
08-12-2009, 11:13 PM
We'll do that by attacking the costs. I've said it myriad times on the board, the costs are rising at a rate that makes no sense and matches no indicators, this shows that there are some Pentagon Toilet Seat types of savings to be found. Instead we are simply covering it up, we drop some government on it then cover it in sand, but over time it will fester up again and again causing any program to fail. We must find the root cause of the problem and solve that, not just cover it with government.

The root cause is the system itself. For profit health care is a bad system that fosters greed and stifles innovation.

Damocles
08-12-2009, 11:14 PM
The root cause is the system itself. For profit health care is a bad system that fosters greed and stifles innovation.
Whether that is true, dropping it in the government box and covering it with somebody else's money doesn't solve anything. There are some bad things about for profit benefits, but there are also good things, innovation and technology is one. One of the listed problems with French health care is the lack of new technologies and spending in new areas of medicine.

Our health care is very good, it is the coverage that is the issue. I don't want to stifle the urge to try to save every low birth weight child and counting it as a live birth that works to our disadvantage in average life expectancy and infant mortality for instance. I believe that such efforts will bring a time that women can choose between ex utero incubation and "natural" incubation giving real choice in childbirth not the false choice of death only.

Fish
08-12-2009, 11:23 PM
Whether that is true, dropping it in the government box and covering it with somebody else's money doesn't solve anything. There are some bad things about for profit benefits, but there are also good things, innovation and technology is one. One of the listed problems with French health care is the lack of new technologies and spending in new areas of medicine.

Innovation that is not available to everyone is a pretty shitty innovation, especially when we're talking about things that save lives.

Damocles
08-12-2009, 11:25 PM
Innovation that is not available to everyone is a pretty shitty innovation, especially when we're talking about things that save lives.
Hence we work to make it available quickly with interim subsidies while we work on the root cause rather than removing all that is good and grabbing at any plan because "Bush didn't do it" which is the current argument I have gotten from the left.

There is more good in our health care system than there is bad, and what is bad (not all are covered) can be bridged while we fix the actual cause of that issue. I believe we will stifle what is good if we make it so that government is the only provider, and one way to do that is to have a system that can run deficits forever "compete" with the other providers that cannot, it is a recipe for the worst kind of monopoly.

Fish
08-12-2009, 11:32 PM
Hence we work to make it available quickly with interim subsidies while we work on the root cause rather than removing all that is good and grabbing at any plan because "Bush didn't do it" which is the current argument I have gotten from the left.

There is more good in our health care system than there is bad, and what is bad (not all are covered) can be bridged while we fix the actual cause of that issue. I believe we will stifle what is good if we make it so that government is the only provider, and one way to do that is to have a system that can run deficits forever "compete" with the other providers that cannot, it is a recipe for the worst kind of monopoly.

"Bush didn't do it" and neither has any other President since LBJ or any President before him. That's my argument. At least your talking point is coherent. You want to slow it down and take your time. Why is this upsetting the left? Because we've heard that for over 100 years and it's never been done. Slow it down we'll figure it out is another way of saying, "Let's bury this thing for another decade." I just don't accept that.

Damocles
08-12-2009, 11:34 PM
"Bush didn't do it" and neither has any other President since LBJ or any President before him. That's my argument. At least your talking point is coherent. You want to slow it down and take your time. Why is this upsetting the left? Because we've heard that for over 100 years and it's never been done. Slow it down we'll figure it out is another way of saying, "Let's bury this thing for another decade." I just don't accept that.
However, when have you heard of an interim solution to bridge the time to the solution?

The difference is I actually want a conversation rather than a wedge issue.

You asked me what I want to see, I have told you. Now I'll tell you what I do see. An attempt to centralize it in the government and a hope that people will believe that it isn't the cost we need to fix but the actual health care. A press to force something quickly when the vast majority of the nation wants to slow it down, and a total disregard of any other idea presented. Only this one solution is acceptable. This is a recipe for 15 more years of waiting, even the AARP has come out against this plan now. The longer it is the "only" acceptable option, the more people will realize it is still the same wedge.

I don't want a wedge, I want a solution.

Fish
08-12-2009, 11:36 PM
However, when have you heard of an interim solution to bridge the time. The difference is I actually want a conversation rather than a wedge issue.

Fair enough, I want a conversation to. I just wish that's what the Republican party actually wanted as a whole and I think we can both agree that that's not true.

Damocles
08-12-2009, 11:39 PM
Fair enough, I want a conversation to. I just wish that's what the Republican party actually wanted as a whole and I think we can both agree that that's not true.
You asked me what I want to see, I have told you. Now I'll tell you what I do see. An attempt to centralize it in the government and a hope that people will believe that it isn't the cost we need to fix but the actual health care. A press to force something quickly when the vast majority of the nation wants to slow it down, and a total disregard of any other idea presented.

Only this one solution is acceptable.

This is a recipe for 15 more years of waiting, even the AARP has come out against this plan now. The longer it is the "only" acceptable option, the more people will realize it is still the same wedge. It isn't only the R party that is causing this to falter.

I don't want a wedge, I want a solution. I don't want the costs hidden, I want them found. I don't want the government to be the provider, because those who provide for you also expect to be able to give conditions for their provision.

Fish
08-12-2009, 11:39 PM
You asked me what I want to see, I have told you. Now I'll tell you what I do see. An attempt to centralize it in the government and a hope that people will believe that it isn't the cost we need to fix but the actual health care. A press to force something quickly when the vast majority of the nation wants to slow it down, and a total disregard of any other idea presented. Only this one solution is acceptable. This is a recipe for 15 more years of waiting, even the AARP has come out against this plan now. The longer it is the "only" acceptable option, the more people will realize it is still the same wedge.

The fact that it's been 15 years since the country was even talking about health care this much speaks volumes. 15 years ago we had to slow down and talk it over.

Damocles
08-12-2009, 11:47 PM
The fact that it's been 15 years since the country was even talking about health care this much speaks volumes. 15 years ago we had to slow down and talk it over.
No, 15 years ago we hated the amount of times the "plan" could send you to prison. Hillarycare was a monster of its own, the arguments weren't to slow down, they pointed out what was in the plan.

During that 15 years D congresses also brought nothing forward, shoot during the 2000 campaign it was "lockboxes" for SS that they argued about, in 2004 the war. In 2008 both sides had their own "solution" and neither seems willing to actually have a conversation.

It's time to demand that Congressional leaders get together and put forward something different than this, because this one isn't going to pass. It seems to me that too often we get one party in power and it makes it so that no compromise can be reached. It seems our government works better and finds the best compromises when congress and the WH are held by different parties.

Fish
08-13-2009, 08:56 AM
That's because you've got your plate to full and ergo; you're not able to do any of the things efficiently.

You might have to put aside the schooling, for the time being, and do what's necessary to take care of yourself.

So I should drop out of college so that I can become a more efficient worker at my low wage jobs?

DamnYankee
08-13-2009, 09:04 AM
Fair enough, I want a conversation to. I just wish that's what the Republican party actually wanted as a whole and I think we can both agree that that's not true. How ironic. 'I want to be serious; its the Republican's fault.' LOL

You can afford a pickup truck just not one with leather seats and chrome wheels.

Fish
08-13-2009, 09:09 AM
You can afford a pickup truck just not one with leather seats and chrome wheels.

No, I can't afford health insurance at all. Not even shitty health insurance.


How ironic. 'I want to be serious; its the Republican's fault.' LOL

The GOP has worked its base up to a fever pitch about health care in order to bury it for another decade.

DamnYankee
08-13-2009, 09:13 AM
No, I can't afford health insurance at all. Not even shitty health insurance.



The GOP has worked its base up to a fever pitch about health care in order to bury it for another decade.

If that's truly the case then you have Medicade. If not then you're budgeting wrong.

Hopefully we can bury this thing forever. *shrug*

Fish
08-13-2009, 09:16 AM
If that's truly the case then you have Medicade. If not then you're budgeting wrong.

Hopefully we can bury this thing forever. *shrug*

I don't qualify for Medicade. My paychecks go to rent, food, electricity, water, public transportation, and medication.

Fish
08-13-2009, 09:18 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/health/13clinic.html?_r=1&hpw


INGLEWOOD, Calif. — They came for new teeth mostly, but also for blood pressure checks, mammograms, immunizations and acupuncture for pain. Neighboring South Los Angeles is a place where health care is scarce, and so when it was offered nearby, word got around.

For the second day in a row, thousands of people lined up on Wednesday — starting after midnight and snaking into the early hours — for free dental, medical and vision services, courtesy of a nonprofit group that more typically provides mobile health care for the rural poor.

Like a giant MASH unit, the floor of the Forum, the arena where Madonna once played four sold-out shows, housed aisle upon aisle of dental chairs, where drilling, cleaning and extracting took place in the open. A few cushions were duct-taped to a folding table in a coat closet, an examining room where Dr. Eugene Taw, a volunteer, saw patients.

When Remote Area Medical, the Tennessee-based organization running the event, decided to try its hand at large urban medical services, its principals thought Los Angeles would be a good place to start. But they were far from prepared for the outpouring of need. Set up for eight days of care, the group was already overwhelmed on the first day after allowing 1,500 people through the door, nearly 500 of whom had still not been served by day’s end and had to return in the wee hours Wednesday morning.

The enormous response to the free care was a stark corollary to the hundreds of Americans who have filled town-hall-style meetings throughout the country, angrily expressing their fear of the Obama administration’s proposed changes to the nation’s health care system. The bleachers of patients also reflected the state’s high unemployment, recent reduction in its Medicaid services for the poor and high deductibles and co-payments that have come to define many employer-sponsored insurance programs.

Many of those here said they lacked insurance, but many others said they had coverage but not enough to meet all their needs — or that they could afford. Some said they were well aware of the larger national health care debate, and were eager for changes.

Article Continues

cancel2 2022
08-13-2009, 09:21 AM
So I should drop out of college so that I can become a more efficient worker at my low wage jobs?

There is a saying that sometimes in life you are a statue and sometimes a pigeon, so when it comes to dealing with this guy never be a statue.

PostmodernProphet
08-13-2009, 09:23 AM
The fact that it's been 15 years since the country was even talking about health care this much speaks volumes. 15 years ago we had to slow down and talk it over.
it's symptomatic....the same thing has been true about global warming....it became such a focal point that nobody talks about pollution itself, only about the warming issue....

the net cause is using an issue for political gain....so long as there is gain in debating the issue without resolving it, there will be no resolution.....

Fish
08-13-2009, 09:25 AM
There is a saying that sometimes in life you are a statue and sometimes a pigeon, so when it comes to dealing with this guy never be a statue.

I like it because the kneejerk reactions that I get from USF are, in my mind, indicative of the conservative movement as a whole.

PostmodernProphet
08-13-2009, 09:26 AM
No, I can't afford health insurance at all. Not even shitty health insurance.


so when the current plan is passed, leaving you with a $5000 deductible and a 30% copay (government only pays 70%).....are your problems solved?.....

Fish
08-13-2009, 09:27 AM
it's symptomatic....the same thing has been true about global warming....it became such a focal point that nobody talks about pollution itself, only about the warming issue....

the net cause is using an issue for political gain....so long as there is gain in debating the issue without resolving it, there will be no resolution.....

I agree, but Democrats and Republicans are not equally guilty in doing this.

Fish
08-13-2009, 09:28 AM
so when the current plan is passed, leaving you with a $5000 deductible and a 30% copay (government only pays 70%).....are your problems solved?.....

Do you have a source? I can't find any information about this online.

DamnYankee
08-13-2009, 09:30 AM
I don't qualify for Medicade. My paychecks go to rent, food, electricity, water, public transportation, and medication. Live in a cheaper apartment, prepare your own meals from basic ingredients, stop using so much electricity, walk to work, and buy your basic medications at Wal-Mart.:)

DamnYankee
08-13-2009, 09:33 AM
I like it because the kneejerk reactions that I get from USF are, in my mind, indicative of the conservative movement as a whole. And yours are indicative of all liberals.

PostmodernProphet
08-13-2009, 09:34 AM
Do you have a source? I can't find any information about this online.

???....it's in the act, I've quoted it at least twice in other threads....

Just Plain Politics! - View Single Post - APP - Emergency Rooms as Healthcare (http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showpost.php?p=491937&postcount=236)

Fish
08-13-2009, 09:34 AM
Live in a cheaper apartment, prepare your own meals from basic ingredients, stop using so much electricity, walk to work, and buy your basic medications at Wal-Mart.:)

If you saw the way I lived, telling me I need to live more frugally is laughable.

I don't even own a bed or any furniture. I wash my clothes in the sink for fuck's sake.

DamnYankee
08-13-2009, 09:36 AM
If you saw the way I lived, telling me I need to live more frugally is laughable.

I don't even own a bed or any furniture. I wash my clothes in the sink for fuck's sake.
Obviously you're getting shitty value in the overpriced liberal urban utopia where you live. Maybe you should have shopped more wisely.

Damocles
08-13-2009, 09:41 AM
Do you have a source? I can't find any information about this online.
He's correct, the basic plan is 70% with a 30% copay, for single people the deductible is $5,000 for a family it is $10,000. It was part of what I read yesterday while going through the other post about those bullet points that the dude was sending on Twitter.

DamnYankee
08-13-2009, 09:44 AM
And if you don't pay for it the government will penalize you. Prepare yourself for a lot of fine rice and peanut butter meals, Fish. LOL

Fish
08-13-2009, 09:45 AM
so when the current plan is passed, leaving you with a $5000 deductible and a 30% copay (government only pays 70%).....are your problems solved?.....

Ok, then, the answer is no, my problems would not be solved. As I've said before, I support UHC and see the public option as a stepping stone toward that. Truth be told, no health care reform is going to benefit me in the time span in which I need it.

Fish
08-13-2009, 09:46 AM
And if you don't pay for it the government will penalize you. Prepare yourself for a lot of fine rice and peanut butter meals, Fish. LOL

I've eaten nothing but Peanut Butter and Jelly sandwiches, slices of american cheese, and canned vegetables for months.

Also, if you can prove you can't afford insurance you don't have to buy it even under a mandatory plan.

PostmodernProphet
08-13-2009, 10:03 AM
I've eaten nothing but Peanut Butter and Jelly sandwiches, slices of american cheese, and canned vegetables for months.


frozen vegetables would be both cheaper and healthier, throw in a package of ramen noodles or a handful of macaroni....scrap the jelly as both expensive and unhealthy, you could buy a five lb bag of apples for less than a jar of jelly....bananas and eggs are also cheap and healthy.....canned tuna....cheapest source of protein in the grocery store.....also, drink tap water, not canned sodas or bottled water.....put your slice of cheese on a baked potato for 30 cents more.....

Damocles
08-13-2009, 10:03 AM
Ok, then, the answer is no, my problems would not be solved. As I've said before, I support UHC and see the public option as a stepping stone toward that. Truth be told, no health care reform is going to benefit me in the time span in which I need it.
My suggestion would, as would USFREEDOM's suggestion to expand Medicare to cover the working poor. If the goal is to cover those who currently reside in the hole it does not need what they are bringing. It's like swatting a fly with a nuclear weapon.

Fish
08-13-2009, 10:09 AM
I don't have a refrigerator , range, or microwave. I do drink tap water. I do buy fruit whenever I can, but I often have to choose between things like soap and toothpaste or fresh fruit/vegetables.

Saying I've eaten nothing but those things is facetious, saying that's where a majority of my calories come from is not.

Fish
08-13-2009, 10:11 AM
My suggestion would, as would USFREEDOM's suggestion to expand Medicare to cover the working poor. If the goal is to cover those who currently reside in the hole it does not need what they are bringing. It's like swatting a fly with a nuclear weapon.

Well, Medicare is for old people. Are you talking about Medicaid? If so, I think that's a great idea, let's move up the limits on what you can make to qualify for it.

Damocles
08-13-2009, 10:14 AM
Well, Medicare is for old people. Are you talking about Medicaid? If so, I think that's a great idea, let's move up the limits on what you can make to qualify for it.
Yeah, sorry. But you knew what I meant anyway.

I agree, it would give us the time to do what is right and find what is effecting the costs while still helping the people who need it. Personally I think they should offer a graduated subsidy where some would pay to be on the medicaid to defer some of the costs but still offer the hand up. The limits are artificially set to keep them within budget, so we'd have to spend some more money in order to get it done, but not nearly what will be spent with the Obamacare plan.

Fish
08-13-2009, 10:16 AM
Yeah, sorry. But you knew what I meant anyway.

I agree, it would give us the time to do what is right and find what is effecting the costs while still helping the people who need it. Personally I think they should offer a graduated subsidy where some would pay to be on the medicaid to defer some of the costs but still offer the hand up.

Well Damo, we've figured out a great short term solution in what? 30 posts? Looks like we need to run for office. :clink:

DigitalDave
08-13-2009, 10:34 AM
I think more companies need to start doing more health programs to prevent healthcare rates from rising. I currently work for an ESOP and the rates have not gone up in three years. It's a cheap rate for the employees, and co-pay is $5 for specialist appointments. My wife's pregnancy was completely covered and we owe $20 to the OB/GYN for the office visits she had. Never in a million years would I trade my insurance in for something run by the government. But, to help keep our rates low, the company invests in little stupid things to get people motivated to stay healthy, and it works.

They have a list of things you need to do to by the end of the year, and if you do it, you get 2 months insurance premiums paid for. They have Weight-loss Competitions where the winners get $100 gift certificates to the local grocery store. 2nd place gets $50, and 3rd gets $25. So basically all you have to do is try and you got a good chance of getting those. People are participating. It costs the company maybe a couple grand to do these little things, but it ends up saving the company tens of thousands by making sure premiums don't go up.

Long story short, Americans are just unhealthy, even those with insurance. This drives the rates up and makes it much harder for those without insurance to get something affordable. Government feels the need to step in now to provide Americans with something affordable, but its not going to solve the root problem. Some companies will feel that it's ok to no longer offer the benefit (I doubt my company does this) of health insurance, and more people will end up on the government plan. That is a given. However, we can reduce costs be offering other incentives for people to stay healthy or work towards getting healthy.

uscitizen
08-13-2009, 10:47 AM
I've eaten nothing but Peanut Butter and Jelly sandwiches, slices of american cheese, and canned vegetables for months.

Also, if you can prove you can't afford insurance you don't have to buy it even under a mandatory plan.

I have lived pretty much the same way for long periods of time in my past.
Hang in there lady. It is hard to see past the present when it sucks, but if you hang in there things can and will get better.

uscitizen
08-13-2009, 10:49 AM
Yepper just expand medicaid and offer lower mid income families medicaid coverage with a cheap/free premium based on their income/family size. Roll CHIPS in there too. It is not too bright to take care of just the kids and not the parents of the kids. Family values you know.
The kids lose too when the parents lose their home, etc from medical costs. Or die from lack of treatment.

DamnYankee
08-13-2009, 11:04 AM
I've eaten nothing but Peanut Butter and Jelly sandwiches, slices of american cheese, and canned vegetables for months.

Also, if you can prove you can't afford insurance you don't have to buy it even under a mandatory plan.Obviously you're getting shitty value in the overpriced liberal urban utopia where you live.

Under the conditions you claim you'd qualify for medicade. My guess is that mummy and daddy are still claiming you as a dependent and giving you less of an allowance then you think you deserve. :)

uscitizen
08-13-2009, 11:07 AM
Obviously you're getting shitty value in the overpriced liberal urban utopia where you live.

Under the conditions you claim you'd qualify for medicade. My guess is that mummy and daddy are still claiming you as a dependent and giving you less of an allowance then you think you deserve. :)

If she is going to college that is not cheap.
I think medicaid should exempt the money you spend on college from the income requirements. After all with a college education you will be helping America in the future, not being a burden.
Or so the theory goes.

DamnYankee
08-13-2009, 11:13 AM
If she is going to college that is not cheap.
I think medicaid should exempt the money you spend on college from the income requirements. After all with a college education you will be helping America in the future, not being a burden.
Or so the theory goes. I think all education expenses should be tax exempt.

Fish
08-13-2009, 11:33 AM
Obviously you're getting shitty value in the overpriced liberal urban utopia where you live.

Under the conditions you claim you'd qualify for medicade. My guess is that mummy and daddy are still claiming you as a dependent and giving you less of an allowance then you think you deserve. :)

I'm not going to discuss my parents on this board, just let me just say that your claim is extremely off base.

uscitizen
08-13-2009, 11:34 AM
I'm not going to discuss my parents on this board, just let me just say that your claim is extremely off base.

SM is off base on nearly everything.

DamnYankee
08-13-2009, 11:37 AM
I'm not going to discuss my parents on this board, just let me just say that your claim is extremely off base. I doubt it. Lots of kids rebel against their parents and become mindless Democrats. Most grow out of it; many like USC don't. *shrug*

Fish
08-13-2009, 11:38 AM
If she is going to college that is not cheap.
I think medicaid should exempt the money you spend on college from the income requirements. After all with a college education you will be helping America in the future, not being a burden.
Or so the theory goes.

I am going to college, but I'm basically getting a free ride from Uncle Sam. It's strange that they'll pay to educate me, but not to keep me alive.

As far as not qualifying for Medicade, Damocles hit it on the head a few pages back: I fall through a donut hole between poor and middle class that can't afford insurance but don't meet income requirements for Medicade. I apply once every three months for it and have been denied for over two years.

Fish
08-13-2009, 11:39 AM
I doubt it. Lots of kids rebel against their parents and become mindless Democrats. Most grow out of it; many like USC don't. *shrug*

My parents voted for Obama despite my pleas.

uscitizen
08-13-2009, 11:43 AM
I am going to college, but I'm basically getting a free ride from Uncle Sam. It's strange that they'll pay to educate me, but not to keep me alive.

As far as not qualifying for Medicade, Damocles hit it on the head a few pages back: I fall through a donut hole between poor and middle class that can't afford insurance but don't meet income requirements for Medicade. I apply once every three months for it and have been denied for over two years.

Many fall into that hole. Why I say and damo as well that expanding Medicaid coverage to higher incomes with a cheap starting graduated premium for lower income working class persons/families.

just off the top of my head.

Below 25K free
below 30k income with one dependent free.
30-35k $50 per month. etc...
Again just of the top of my head. And the numbers could be adjusted for the cost of living in an area?

Fish
08-13-2009, 11:53 AM
I think that's pretty close, usc. I might go even a little lower. A few years ago I was making about 32K and was able to afford pretty decent health care through my employer.

PostmodernProphet
08-13-2009, 12:08 PM
I don't have a refrigerator , range, or microwave. I do drink tap water. I do buy fruit whenever I can, but I often have to choose between things like soap and toothpaste or fresh fruit/vegetables.

Saying I've eaten nothing but those things is facetious, saying that's where a majority of my calories come from is not.

all I can say then, is that you need to drop one of your part time jobs and get a job instead as the last shift busboy at a Chinese buffet....at least you could eat the food they can't save till tomorrow on a daily basis....

Fish
08-13-2009, 12:23 PM
all I can say then, is that you need to drop one of your part time jobs and get a job instead as the last shift busboy at a Chinese buffet....at least you could eat the food they can't save till tomorrow on a daily basis....

Haha! That's the best part about working in a restaurant! :)

DamnYankee
08-13-2009, 12:26 PM
My parents voted for Obama despite my pleas. So they're the ones who didn't grow up. My condolences on having to eat tofu and wear birkenstocks during your childhood.

Fish
08-13-2009, 04:54 PM
Ok thread. What can we do to help people who make enough to have insurance, but can't afford the amount of insurance they really need? This is another "donut hole" that exists in our current system.

DamnYankee
08-13-2009, 05:09 PM
Move out of that expensive apartment. What's the rent anyway?

PostmodernProphet
08-13-2009, 05:20 PM
Ok thread. What can we do to help people who make enough to have insurance, but can't afford the amount of insurance they really need? This is another "donut hole" that exists in our current system.

what is the amount 'they really need'?....I, for example, carry a $5k deductible and a $10k max on co-pay...reducing the co-pay max is almost a dollar for dollar shift on premiums ($5000 a year less in copay max for $5000 a year more premiums)....so, any year where we spend less than $5k is actually a savings....so, is this a donut hole?....(this is with BC/BS Flex Blue plan.....incidentally, I can use the health care savings plan with this, so I can deduct up to a certain amount as a credit to my taxes each year for my deductible....I forget how much at the moment, I believe $2400 - this was part of the Bush tax cut, will Obama roll it back?).......the premiums, including me, spouse, and two children over 18 {surcharge}, come to $525/month.....premiums are deductible from my income - again, Bush tax cuts....

now, if you would like to expand the health care savings account credit to cover the entire $10k, then I wouldn't have a donut hole at all, would I......