PDA

View Full Version : APP - Does anyone belive we should keep healthcare as it is?



Jarod
08-12-2009, 09:57 AM
We currently have one of the worst and expensive healthcare systems in the world.

I know plenty of people who go to Canada for healthcare. Many other nations have a much better system.

Regardless of your position on Obama's plan...

Does anyone belive we should keep the system how it currently is?

Topspin
08-12-2009, 10:00 AM
Bullshit statistics
How many of our leaders fly to other countries for operations.
It needs tweeking not overhaul.
Medicare/caid pay cents on the dollar and the balance gets shifted to people who pay just like car insurance. Expand that and you kill the private options.
Also shorter patents for drug companies means way less new drugs.

I'm out

Jarod
08-12-2009, 10:07 AM
Bullshit statistics
How many of our leaders fly to other countries for operations.
It needs tweeking not overhaul.
Medicare/caid pay cents on the dollar and the balance gets shifted to people who pay just like car insurance. Expand that and you kill the private options.
Also shorter patents for drug companies means way less new drugs.

I'm out

I undersatand you do not like the proposed plan, but do you really want to keep it the same?

Sure here in the US if you are rich, you can get top notch health care. If you are poor or even middle class... not so much.

Leaders of other nations are rich, usually...

meme
08-12-2009, 10:08 AM
how is that our Health care all of sudden became BROKEN just in time for the Hugo Obama to fly in here and FIX IT..

yes there are some things that need to be done to bring our costs down, but we have some of the best health care in the world, that is why a lot of people come here for treatments they can't get in their countries..

the Hugo and Democrats are such a snaky bunch..to keep hammering this kind of RETORIC..

Jarod
08-12-2009, 10:08 AM
Ive spent months trying to get someone to perform surgery on a client who had no money. The poor guy had medicaid, but noone in town would perform the operation. He was in severe pain, eventually I settled his case for about 10% of its value and he paid out of his pocket for the operation.

Had this guy not had a claim, he would have been SOL and in pain unable to work the rest of his life.

Jarod
08-12-2009, 10:10 AM
how is that our Health care all of sudden became BROKEN just in time for the Hugo Obama to fly in here and FIX IT..

yes there are some things that need to be done to bring our costs down, but we have some of the best health care in the world, that is why a lot of people come here for treatments they can't get in their countries..

the Hugo and Democrats are such a snaky bunch..to keep hammering this kind of RETORIC..

Its been broken for years and years and continues to get worse. We finally have someone who is willing to pay attention to the problem instead of ignor it!

meme
08-12-2009, 10:11 AM
Ive spent months trying to get someone to perform surgery on a client who had no money. The poor guy had medicaid, but noone in town would perform the operation. He was in severe pain, eventually I settled his case for about 10% of its value and he paid out of his pocket for the operation.

Had this guy not had a claim, he would have been SOL and in pain unable to work the rest of his life.

I know about Medicaid, my mom just passed away on it...but all the Democrats plan would do, is turn everyone onto one giant Medicaid program that forces everyone to be in it..

you need to open your eyes, and really look into what this bill is all about..
there are other plans out there to bring down the cost of our health care, TORT reform for starters, but isn't even mentioned in the Hugos bill, you ever wonder WHY?

Jarod
08-12-2009, 10:13 AM
I know about Medicaid, my mom just passed away on it...but all the Democrats plan would do, is turn everyone onto one giant Medicaid program that forces everyone to be in it..

you need to open your eyes, and really look into what this bill is all about..

Again, in this thread, I am not debating the propsed plan, I am first trying to establish that the current system is broken.

Jarod
08-12-2009, 10:14 AM
I know about Medicaid, my mom just passed away on it...but all the Democrats plan would do, is turn everyone onto one giant Medicaid program that forces everyone to be in it..

you need to open your eyes, and really look into what this bill is all about..
there are other plans out there to bring down the cost of our health care, TORT reform for starters, but isn't even mentioned in the Hugos bill, you ever wonder WHY?

Sorry to hear about your mother. How long ago did you loose her?

meme
08-12-2009, 10:15 AM
Again, in this thread, I am not debating the propsed plan, I am first trying to establish that the current system is broken.

OK, no it's not broken...needs some tweaks to bring the cost down and there are other plans to make this happen..

christiefan915
08-12-2009, 10:16 AM
how is that our Health care all of sudden became BROKEN just in time for the Hugo Obama to fly in here and FIX IT..

yes there are some things that need to be done to bring our costs down, but we have some of the best health care in the world, that is why a lot of people come here for treatments they can't get in their countries..

the Hugo and Democrats are such a snaky bunch..to keep hammering this kind of RETORIC..

Please. Our system's been broken for decades and Hillary attempted a fix something like 16 years ago, but was shot down by the RW hacks.

Damocles
08-12-2009, 10:16 AM
Please. Our system's been broken for decades and Hillary attempted a fix something like 16 years ago, but was shot down by the RW hacks.
Hillarycare was nothing like this one.

Jarod
08-12-2009, 10:17 AM
The Bush administration had 8 years to propose some sort of fix... Nuthing!

meme
08-12-2009, 10:17 AM
Please. Our system's been broken for decades and Hillary attempted a fix something like 16 years ago, but was shot down by the RW hacks.


wrong, the American people back then also Rejected Socialized health care as they are now....get it straight..

Damocles
08-12-2009, 10:20 AM
The Bush administration had 8 years to propose some sort of fix... Nuthing!
Man, I love revisionism.

They had only 4 where they had control of the congress and he spent them trying to get illegal immigrants citizenship and revise Social security. Both of which will need to be done.

Do I wish they had the foresight to put in place a solid health care plan where the government wasn't the centralized player? Yeah, I do. But that doesn't make this plan any better, nor does pretending he had 8 years of congressional control.

Jarod
08-12-2009, 10:24 AM
Man, I love revisionism.

They had only 4 where they had control of the congress and he spent them trying to get illegal immigrants citizenship and revise Social security. Both of which will need to be done.

Do I wish they had the foresight to put in place a solid health care plan where the government wasn't the centralized player? Yeah, I do. But that doesn't make this plan any better, nor does pretending he had 8 years of congressional control.

I never said he had 8 years of congressional control, but even without congressional controll he could have proposed something...!

Just because you are working on Social Security and Illegal Immigration, (two things he did not get done) does not mean you cant work on healthcare.

Damocles
08-12-2009, 10:30 AM
I never said he had 8 years of congressional control, but even without congressional controll he could have proposed something...!

Just because you are working on Social Security and Illegal Immigration, (two things he did not get done) does not mean you cant work on healthcare.
*sigh*

Your revisionism notwithstanding (yes your attempt to say they had 8 years of control was still noted), Bush is not all republicans and he was often short sighted politically. This does not mean that this idea suddenly becomes good, or that R ideas were not proposed to attack the costs of health care.

The reality is that big stuff like this is done one at a time. Had SS passed they would have moved on to the next on their agenda, when it failed they did anyway and tried to pass the immigration reform. Had that also passed they would have moved on to the next thing, but they kept putting that one forward.

Obama talks about revising immigration as well, but I do notice that he, like everybody else, is doing one large thing at a time.

meme
08-12-2009, 10:35 AM
Sorry to hear about your mother. How long ago did you loose her?

June 14th, that was why I was off the board for a couple of months....thank you for your kind words....much appreciated..

Jarod
08-12-2009, 11:10 AM
June 14th, that was why I was off the board for a couple of months....thank you for your kind words....much appreciated..

I lost my father two years ago. Its a hard time thats for sure.

PostmodernProphet
08-12-2009, 01:08 PM
We currently have one of the worst and expensive healthcare systems in the world.

I know plenty of people who go to Canada for healthcare. Many other nations have a much better system.

Regardless of your position on Obama's plan...

Does anyone belive we should keep the system how it currently is?

not if we come up with something better.....I would not be in favor of doing something worse, simply because it's change....

uscitizen
08-12-2009, 01:12 PM
how is that our Health care all of sudden became BROKEN just in time for the Hugo Obama to fly in here and FIX IT..

yes there are some things that need to be done to bring our costs down, but we have some of the best health care in the world, that is why a lot of people come here for treatments they can't get in their countries..

the Hugo and Democrats are such a snaky bunch..to keep hammering this kind of RETORIC..

Our healthcare system has been a growing problem for many years. The party holding most of the power for the last 30 years or so just liked it the way it was. It got them lots of campaign contributions and such.
And they do not really care about the little people suffering as long as they have theirs.

Cypress
08-12-2009, 01:18 PM
Does anyone belive we should keep healthcare as it is?


I don't like the idea of Obama's Death Panels, or a 12 month wait for an x-ray in a socialistic-ish-y Nationalized Goverment system.

PostmodernProphet
08-12-2009, 01:19 PM
The party holding most of the power for the last 30 years or so just liked it the way it was.

and here I thought you liked the Democrats.......
Nixon - Democrats controlled House 6 of 6 years and Senate 6 of 6 years
Ford - Democrats controlled House 2 of 2 years and Senate 2 of 2 years
Carter- Democrats controlled House 4 of 4 years, Senate 4 of 4 years, and White House 4 of 4 years - 4 years total control
Reagan -Democrats controlled House 8 of 8 years, Senate for 2 of 8 years
Bush 1 - Democrats controlled House 4 of 4 years and Senate 4 of 4 years
Clinton - Democrats controlled House 2 of 8 years, Senate 2 of 8 years and White House 8 of 8 years - 6 years of total control
Bush 2 - Democrats controlled House 2 of 8 years, Senate 4 of 8 years and White House 8 of 8 years - 4 years of total control

no matter how you look at it the party holding most of the power the last thirty years or so has been the Democrats....

DamnYankee
08-12-2009, 01:21 PM
Again, in this thread, I am not debating the propsed plan, I am first trying to establish that the current system is broken.Your premise is flawed, since the system isn't broken. Granted it could use improvement, like tort reform, deregulation of the insurance industry, and tax exemption for insurance and medical payments.

uscitizen
08-12-2009, 01:21 PM
and here I thought you liked the Democrats.......

figure it out, the repubs have had most of the power for the last 30 years. Either thru majority control or thru presidential veto and veto override proof numbers.


I do not like either party. I just fear the damage the repubs do more.
And the moral legislation the right pushes as well.

Fish
08-12-2009, 01:25 PM
how is that our Health care all of sudden became BROKEN just in time for the Hugo Obama to fly in here and FIX IT..

Ahahaha
hahah
ahahahahahaha
hahahahhahahahahha
AHAAHAHAHAHAHAH!

I know that this is old information for most of you guys, but meme your complete lack of American history knowledge on this subject is simply staggering.

Well done.

PostmodernProphet
08-12-2009, 01:36 PM
figure it out, the repubs have had most of the power for the last 30 years. Either thru majority control or thru presidential veto and veto override proof numbers.




pwned....see list above....and controlling the presidency doesn't mean much if the Congress won't pass what you want to sign....

meme
08-12-2009, 01:39 PM
Ahahaha
hahah
ahahahahahaha
hahahahhahahahahha
AHAAHAHAHAHAHAH!

I know that this is old information for most of you guys, but meme your complete lack of American history knowledge on this subject is simply staggering.

Well done.

okey dokey:rolleyes:

ZappasGuitar
08-12-2009, 02:08 PM
OK, no it's not broken...needs some tweaks to bring the cost down and there are other plans to make this happen..

Care to list some of those "other plans"?

christiefan915
08-12-2009, 06:45 PM
Hillarycare was nothing like this one.

And this is the comment I was answering, which has nothing to do with the properties of either plan.

"how is that our Health care all of sudden became BROKEN just in time for the Hugo Obama to fly in here and FIX IT.."

Damocles
08-12-2009, 06:46 PM
And this is the comment I was answering, which has nothing to do with the properties of either plan.

"how is that our Health care all of sudden became BROKEN just in time for the Hugo Obama to fly in here and FIX IT.."

Yet you said Hillarycare was "like this". It isn't. And health care isn't "broken" it is simply expensive.

Onceler
08-12-2009, 10:08 PM
Man, I love revisionism.

They had only 4 where they had control of the congress and he spent them trying to get illegal immigrants citizenship and revise Social security. Both of which will need to be done.

Do I wish they had the foresight to put in place a solid health care plan where the government wasn't the centralized player? Yeah, I do. But that doesn't make this plan any better, nor does pretending he had 8 years of congressional control.

All he said was that the Bush admin had 8 years to propose some sort of fix.

You really over-react at times, and then have a hard time admitting you were wrong when you're called on it.

He's right, too. Bush gave a lot of lip service to healthcare in the 2000 campaign, and did nothing.

Damocles
08-12-2009, 10:37 PM
All he said was that the Bush admin had 8 years to propose some sort of fix.

You really over-react at times, and then have a hard time admitting you were wrong when you're called on it.

He's right, too. Bush gave a lot of lip service to healthcare in the 2000 campaign, and did nothing.
Again, do I wish that he had the foresight to implement a system where government wasn't the central player? Yes.

But realistically, anything proposed by Bush would not pass while the Congress was in the hands of another party without a co-sponsor like Kennedy. While they seemed willing to do it with a swipe at education and with the pill bill I do not believe that there was any consensus on health care, and the last two years there would be no deals with his administration, except those with immigration.

I look at this realistically, he had 4 years to pass something that would have been better than this, and didn't have the foresight to do so. I think that was a mistake. But again, it does not make this one any better to say, "Bush didn't do it!"

Bush's lipservice that I remember was about that Pill Bill, and he certainly dropped that load along with Kennedy.

Don Quixote
08-12-2009, 11:43 PM
no

way to little bang for the buck

belme1201
08-12-2009, 11:52 PM
Man, I love revisionism.

They had only 4 where they had control of the congress and he spent them trying to get illegal immigrants citizenship and revise Social security. Both of which will need to be done.

Do I wish they had the foresight to put in place a solid health care plan where the government wasn't the centralized player? Yeah, I do. But that doesn't make this plan any better, nor does pretending he had 8 years of congressional control.

Do you believe bush and the GOP would have taken on their largest contributors and try to pass a healthcare bill that would benefit the US people? A FAIR plan would have had the support of the people and some Republicans and most Democrats.
Profits and insurance costs are the biggest wall between the most costly, unfair, and poorly distributed healthcare system in the world and one that is more fair, more efficient, and within the reach of everyone. Employer based insurance will be the ultimate death of prosperity.
It is unlikely the Republican party would take on the problem, merely because they don't see it as a problem and the cost to them was better spent on their phoney, poorly run war. $160 billion a year would buy a lot of healthcare.

Annie
08-13-2009, 01:15 AM
Ive spent months trying to get someone to perform surgery on a client who had no money. The poor guy had medicaid, but noone in town would perform the operation. He was in severe pain, eventually I settled his case for about 10% of its value and he paid out of his pocket for the operation.

Had this guy not had a claim, he would have been SOL and in pain unable to work the rest of his life.

Jarod, there are some 'reforms' I think we'd all like to see, that fall far short of going the route of Medicaid/Medicare. I don't know about everyone else's experiences with Medicare, but I know my parents had a 'supplemental' insurance coverage that set them back over $8k per year and that was a few years back. Even then, some meds weren't covered.

Reforms/changes that I think should be addressed:

1. Tort reforms
2. Portability from job to job
3. Getting rid of 'pre-existing conditions' disqualifier
4. Allow people to buy a menu of coverages

LadyT
08-13-2009, 03:05 PM
All he said was that the Bush admin had 8 years to propose some sort of fix.

You really over-react at times, and then have a hard time admitting you were wrong when you're called on it.

He's right, too. Bush gave a lot of lip service to healthcare in the 2000 campaign, and did nothing.

^^ QFT ^^

ib1yysguy
08-13-2009, 03:07 PM
All he said was that the Bush admin had 8 years to propose some sort of fix.

You really over-react at times, and then have a hard time admitting you were wrong when you're called on it.

He's right, too. Bush gave a lot of lip service to healthcare in the 2000 campaign, and did nothing.

He did Medicare Advantage - which was worse than nothing.

LadyT
08-13-2009, 03:11 PM
Again, do I wish that he had the foresight to implement a system where government wasn't the central player? Yes.

But realistically, anything proposed by Bush would not pass while the Congress was in the hands of another party without a co-sponsor like Kennedy. While they seemed willing to do it with a swipe at education and with the pill bill I do not believe that there was any consensus on health care, and the last two years there would be no deals with his administration, except those with immigration.

I look at this realistically, he had 4 years to pass something that would have been better than this, and didn't have the foresight to do so. I think that was a mistake. But again, it does not make this one any better to say, "Bush didn't do it!"

Bush's lipservice that I remember was about that Pill Bill, and he certainly dropped that load along with Kennedy.


Bush did nothing, Obama is trying to do something.

You can make all the excuses you want, but no republican leader has come up with any real initiative to tackle the problems that people have to contend with in the healthcare system:

- Failure to insure
- Insurance companies "rationing" healthcare
- Lack of insurance for people with pre-existing conditions

etc..

REpublicans have sat on their collective fat asses for over a decade.

Damocles
08-13-2009, 06:49 PM
Bush did nothing, Obama is trying to do something.

You can make all the excuses you want, but no republican leader has come up with any real initiative to tackle the problems that people have to contend with in the healthcare system:

- Failure to insure
- Insurance companies "rationing" healthcare
- Lack of insurance for people with pre-existing conditions

etc..

REpublicans have sat on their collective fat asses for over a decade.
Trying to do the wrong thing is worse than doing nothing.

DamnYankee
08-13-2009, 06:59 PM
...
3. Getting rid of 'pre-existing conditions' disqualifier
....

That's a no-go. What's to prevent someone from not having insurance until they get sick? That's like buying homeowner's insurance while your house is burning.

christiefan915
08-13-2009, 07:20 PM
Yet you said Hillarycare was "like this". It isn't. And health care isn't "broken" it is simply expensive.

Uh, no I didn't. I said "something like 16 years ago", meaning about 16 years.

"Please. Our system's been broken for decades and Hillary attempted a fix something like 16 years ago, but was shot down by the RW hacks."

Maybe you don't think it's broken but you don't speak for everyone.

belme1201
08-13-2009, 09:35 PM
That's a no-go. What's to prevent someone from not having insurance until they get sick? That's like buying homeowner's insurance while your house is burning.





God help us.

belme1201
08-13-2009, 09:38 PM
Uh, no I didn't. I said "something like 16 years ago", meaning about 16 years.

"Please. Our system's been broken for decades and Hillary attempted a fix something like 16 years ago, but was shot down by the RW hacks."

Maybe you don't think it's broken but you don't speak for everyone.

Particularly those who pay for their own and have experienced the system as it really is in it's full force.

cawacko
08-13-2009, 09:43 PM
When I got my ass beat earlier this year my hospital bills came out close to $100K. I currently owe thousands. If the government wants to come and say Mr. Cawacko you are off the hook it's all "free" well God Bless Obama.

belme1201
08-13-2009, 10:32 PM
When I got my ass beat earlier this year my hospital bills came out close to $100K. I currently owe thousands. If the government wants to come and say Mr. Cawacko you are off the hook it's all "free" well God Bless Obama.

I understand, breast cancer and a new hip aren't a financial walk in the park either. If they had acted 15 years ago, how many thousands of people would have been saved from devastation while UHC alone paid out a $billion+ to execs?
I would try to figure any way possible to leave those holding the bills holding the bag, maybe the Dr. being the exception. Every time I think it's over, they bill me for something they forgot. I disputed $5 Tylenols and $$ blood pressure pills, which I never took and they dropped it. If you're on a co-pay ask for a copy of the insurance co. bill and payment, you may get it, you may not, but they will listen to you more attentively from that point on. I also got a signed advance estimate and confronted them when the bill to me was more than twice the estimate. I'm sure you've already learned some ins and outs that I haven't yet. Good Luck, I wish you well.

cawacko
08-13-2009, 10:40 PM
I understand, breast cancer and a new hip aren't a financial walk in the park either. If they had acted 15 years ago, how many thousands of people would have been saved from devastation while UHC alone paid out a $billion+ to execs?
I would try to figure any way possible to leave those holding the bills holding the bag, maybe the Dr. being the exception. Every time I think it's over, they bill me for something they forgot. I disputed $5 Tylenols and $$ blood pressure pills, which I never took and they dropped it. If you're on a co-pay ask for a copy of the insurance co. bill and payment, you may get it, you may not, but they will listen to you more attentively from that point on. I also got a signed advance estimate and confronted them when the bill to me was more than twice the estimate. I'm sure you've already learned some ins and outs that I haven't yet. Good Luck, I wish you well.

Thanks belme. I will try some of your recommendations.

TuTu Monroe
08-14-2009, 05:23 AM
Jarod, there are some 'reforms' I think we'd all like to see, that fall far short of going the route of Medicaid/Medicare. I don't know about everyone else's experiences with Medicare, but I know my parents had a 'supplemental' insurance coverage that set them back over $8k per year and that was a few years back. Even then, some meds weren't covered.

Reforms/changes that I think should be addressed:

1. Tort reforms
2. Portability from job to job
3. Getting rid of 'pre-existing conditions' disqualifier
4. Allow people to buy a menu of coverages

This is what the Republicans want.

LadyT
08-14-2009, 06:12 AM
Trying to do the wrong thing is worse than doing nothing.

Yeah how dare he set to get people access to affordavle healthcare

LadyT
08-14-2009, 06:15 AM
When I got my ass beat earlier this year my hospital bills came out close to $100K. I currently owe thousands. If the government wants to come and say Mr. Cawacko you are off the hook it's all "free" well God Bless Obama.

How did you get u'rr ass beat?

Mott the Hoople
08-14-2009, 07:09 AM
When I got my ass beat earlier this year my hospital bills came out close to $100K. I currently owe thousands. If the government wants to come and say Mr. Cawacko you are off the hook it's all "free" well God Bless Obama.
I hear ya but what would be nice is the cost control aspect of health reform. Not just availability for the uninsured. I don't know the extent of your injuries but $100,000 seems excessive. Another example of where cost control would be affective for me. My employer switched from a standard 80/20 plan to a HSA due to the ever increasing costs and an HSA plan isn't as good of coverage as the 80/20. Shortly after that happened my wife had a bicycling accident where she we knocked out in a fall. She had a slight concusion and some road rash but the hospital bill was $10,000. Because my company switched from an 80/20 plan to an HSA (which a lot of companies are doing), I ended up paying $6,000 of that bill instead of $2,000 that I would have owed under the 80/20 plan.

My point here is not just about the lousy coverage of the HSA plan. The fact that it cost $10,000 for getting your bell rung and a slight case of road rash is just insane!

DamnYankee
08-14-2009, 07:41 AM
When I got my ass beat earlier this year my hospital bills came out close to $100K. I currently owe thousands. If the government wants to come and say Mr. Cawacko you are off the hook it's all "free" well God Bless Obama. This is a typical Liberal mentality- 'what's free for me is what I be'.

DamnYankee
08-14-2009, 07:42 AM
God help us. Maybe you should buy insurance after you got your ass beat to have someone else pay to get it fixed?

cawacko
08-14-2009, 09:27 AM
How did you get u'rr ass beat?

Was leaving a club in downtown LA after a going away party for two co-workers moving back to London and was walking a block to get a cab and on the way four guys got out of a car and beat my *ss. The bad news is I was really drunk so I don't know if that prevented me from running and possibly escaping. The good news is I was really drunk so the beating wasn't painful at all and I don't really remember it. I ended up with a fractured face and cracked jaw.

I didn't know these people. Think I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time or they thought I was someone else.

cawacko
08-14-2009, 09:28 AM
This is a typical Liberal mentality- 'what's free for me is what I be'.

I was being facetious because obviously the government isn't going to step in and wave my bills.

Mott the Hoople
08-14-2009, 09:48 AM
Was leaving a club in downtown LA after a going away party for two co-workers moving back to London and was walking a block to get a cab and on the way four guys got out of a car and beat my *ss. The bad news is I was really drunk so I don't know if that prevented me from running and possibly escaping. The good news is I was really drunk so the beating wasn't painful at all and I don't really remember it. I ended up with a fractured face and cracked jaw.

I didn't know these people. Think I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time or they thought I was someone else.I had something similiar happen to me in 2000. I was at a restraunt in Dayton, OH ( I call it the capital of Kentucky cause of all the hillbillies that live there.). I had just finished eating and given the last of my cash to the waitress as a tip. I went out back to the parking lot to leave and was pulling out when I saw a young man sitting on the fender of his car. It looked like he had a flat and I got stupid and pulled up and asked if he needed a hand. The little asshole pullled a pistol on me and asked me for my wallet. I'm like "Oh Shit" when I handed him the wallet cause there was no cash in it. He started pistol whiping me and I kept telling him to take my plastic and even told him the pin #. He then wanted to get out of my car and get into his car to go to an ATM. I got out of my car and just hauled ass. I was a bloody mess from some facial cuts but I did get away. Freaken cops were total assholes about the situation too.

Glad you back to hitting on all cylinders. I hope no permannet damage was done?

FUCK THE POLICE
08-14-2009, 09:52 AM
This is a typical Liberal mentality- 'what's free for me is what I be'.

Yes, because people deserve the hospital bill when they randomly happen to get jumped by strangers.

FUCK THE POLICE
08-14-2009, 09:53 AM
Maybe you should buy insurance after you got your ass beat to have someone else pay to get it fixed?

"Someone else" like society at large? The society that failed to prevent the beating in the first place? Why should you be responsible for the bill for healthcare for something that was nothing of your doing?

cawacko
08-14-2009, 09:54 AM
I had something similiar happen to me in 2000. I was leaving a bar in Lima, Ohio and was jumped by 5 punks. Fortunately for me, I was not drunk, the punks were Larry, Curly, Moe and their two cousins and I was still a USCF racer and was in tip top shape. I told the punk leading them when they followed me out that I wasn't afraid of any one who smoked that wasn't carrying a gun. He didn't believe me. 10 minutes later 2 of them got scared an ran off the other 3 were panting and I wasn't. Then the cops showed up and the dumb asses ran (that saved my ass from going to jail. The cops just thought it was a bar fight until the ran off. Then they understood I was being jumped.) while I stood there. I had some facial cuts that I had to get sewed up but the cops nabbed three of the guys and I got my revenge in court. I got all my medical expenses paid and the ring leader got 30 days. A much happier ending then your affair but againk, these punks were jokes and whooping on them was nothing to boast about.


Glad you back to hitting on all cylinders. I hope no permannet damage was done?

That's pretty impressive well done and great result too! Nothing better than to see punks like that get their comeuppence (sp?).

All things considered I got really lucky. My face isn't fully healed yet but I was lucky because I had one of the top plastic surgeons in LA. I read this guy's bio and besides winning like a dozen awards he had supposedly worked on numerous celebrities as well. (Haha, I must have qualified as an internet political board poster celebrity!)

FUCK THE POLICE
08-14-2009, 09:56 AM
That's pretty impressive well done and great result too! Nothing better than to see punks like that get their comeuppence (sp?).

All things considered I got really lucky. My face isn't fully healed yet but I was lucky because I had one of the top plastic surgeons in LA. I read this guy's bio and besides winning like a dozen awards he had supposedly worked on numerous celebrities as well. (Haha, I must have qualified as an internet political board poster celebrity!)

What does (sp?) mean?

cawacko
08-14-2009, 10:00 AM
What does (sp?) mean?

I could be wrong but I thought it meant spelling like either saying you're not sure if you spelled the word correctly or acknowledging that you know you spelled the word wrong. I wasn't sure if I spelled it right hence the '?' after sp.

TuTu Monroe
08-14-2009, 10:35 AM
We currently have one of the worst and expensive healthcare systems in the world.

I know plenty of people who go to Canada for healthcare. Many other nations have a much better system.

Regardless of your position on Obama's plan...

Does anyone belive we should keep the system how it currently is?

What are you talking about? Our doctors are the best in the world. We have state of the art equipment and more of them. We have the best cancer survival rate in the world, with the exception of maybe Sweden. The UK is way down the list. People from all over the world come here for treatment.

Yes, we have to reform our system, but not the Obama way.

Damocles
08-14-2009, 10:40 AM
Yeah how dare he set to get people access to affordavle healthcare
If that was all he was doing this mess he is creating would be unnecessary.

FUCK THE POLICE
08-14-2009, 10:48 AM
What are you talking about? Our doctors are the best in the world. We have state of the art equipment and more of them. We have the best cancer survival rate in the world, with the exception of maybe Sweden. The UK is way down the list. People from all over the world come here for treatment.

Yes, we have to reform our system, but not the Obama way.

What are you talking about? 14% of Americans have gone out of country to seek treatment.

DamnYankee
08-14-2009, 11:51 AM
"Someone else" like society at large? The society that failed to prevent the beating in the first place? Why should you be responsible for the bill for healthcare for something that was nothing of your doing?
You're the one who failed to adequately defend themselves, or sue the perps. *shrug*

Cypress
08-14-2009, 02:33 PM
The wingnut publication Investor's Business Daily made a GREAT point when they speculated that physicist Stephen Hawking would probably be dead if he had to rely on the British NHS system.

For all we know, the socialist Death Panels in the NHS might have euthanized Hawking decades ago. Which would have been a tragedy for science and enlightened thought.




EDIT: Ooops. It turns out Stephen Hawking IS a british citizen, and he specifically credits the NHS for making his life possible.

Damn. Another ill informed Wingnut talking point shot to hell.

ib1yysguy
08-14-2009, 02:48 PM
Yeah, Cy, that's got to be one of the funniest things to happen in this entire debate. They're making up such bullcrap, that they don't even see their bullcrap lies for what they are before they publish them and embarrass themselves.

USFREEDOM911
08-14-2009, 06:36 PM
Yes, because people deserve the hospital bill when they randomly happen to get jumped by strangers.

DAMN, LA is really behind the times; because here in AZ, if you're the victim you owe NADA.
Maybe he wasn't as much a victim, as he would like us to believe.

NOVA
08-14-2009, 06:49 PM
What are you talking about? 14% of Americans have gone out of country to seek treatment.

Yeah..to have their sex changed and their dicks and tits enlarged....
other than that....nobody

belme1201
08-14-2009, 11:19 PM
Maybe you should buy insurance after you got your ass beat to have someone else pay to get it fixed?

In my entire life nobody has ever paid for my insurance or my family's other than myself or my company which also covered every full-time employee. You?

I repeat, after reading your comments, God help us, we'll need it.

belme1201
08-14-2009, 11:34 PM
What are you talking about? Our doctors are the best in the world. We have state of the art equipment and more of them. We have the best cancer survival rate in the world, with the exception of maybe Sweden. The UK is way down the list. People from all over the world come here for treatment.

Yes, we have to reform our system, but not the Obama way.

Would you suggest in the same way as 1994? Why trust the people who prevailed then to respond differently now?

nji098
08-15-2009, 12:08 AM
Please. Our system's been broken for decades and Hillary attempted a fix something like 16 years ago, but was shot down by the RW hacks.

Sorry but HillaryCare was rejected by a Democratic Congress. In fact it was a big reason for the Republican sweep later that year. It's an easy mistake though, since our "unbiased" Media continues to leave out that "inconvenient truth" whenever the subject comes up...

"In the 1992 US Presidential election, Democratic candidate Bill Clinton would defeat President Bush (who's image was damaged by economic woes)[59] and shift the balance of power in favor of the Democrats once again. The Republicans, however, finally returned to a majority position, in both houses of Congress, in the election of 1994, thanks in part to: 1) President Clinton's unpopular attempt to establish universal health care;[60]..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_Congress#Recent_Histo ry:_since_1968

DamnYankee
08-15-2009, 08:42 AM
In my entire life nobody has ever paid for my insurance or my family's other than myself or my company which also covered every full-time employee. You?

I repeat, after reading your comments, God help us, we'll need it. You missed the point entirely. *shrug*

Damocles
08-15-2009, 08:45 AM
The wingnut publication Investor's Business Daily made a GREAT point when they speculated that physicist Stephen Hawking would probably be dead if he had to rely on the British NHS system.

For all we know, the socialist Death Panels in the NHS might have euthanized Hawking decades ago. Which would have been a tragedy for science and enlightened thought.


EDIT: Ooops. It turns out Stephen Hawking IS a british citizen, and he specifically credits the NHS for making his life possible.

Damn. Another ill informed Wingnut talking point shot to hell.

Did the NHS exist when he was born?

charver
08-15-2009, 09:02 AM
Did the NHS exist when he was born?

No, it didn't.

However the first symptoms of the degenerative disease he suffers from occurred when he was at university by which time the NHS was in existence.

belme1201
08-15-2009, 09:27 AM
You missed the point entirely. *shrug*

You had one?

cancel2 2022
08-15-2009, 09:35 AM
Did the NHS exist when he was born?

He was born in 1942 and the NHS came into existence in 1948.

Almost as soon as he arrived at Cambridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Cambridge), he started developing symptoms of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amyotrophic_lateral_sclerosis) (known colloquially in the USA as Lou Gehrig (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lou_Gehrig)'s disease), a type of motor neuron disease (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_neuron_disease) which would cost him almost all neuromuscular control. During his first two years at Cambridge, he did not distinguish himself, but, after the disease had stabilized and with the help of his doctoral tutor, Dennis William Sciama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_William_Sciama), he returned to working on his Ph.D. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ph.D.)[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_hawking#cite_note-Current_Biography_1984-7) He revealed that he did not see much point in obtaining a doctorate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctorate) if he were to die soon. Hawking later said that the real turning point was his 1965 marriage to Jane Wilde, a language student.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_hawking#cite_note-Current_Biography_1984-7) After gaining his Ph.D., Stephen became first a Research Fellow, and later on a Professorial Fellow at Gonville and Caius College (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonville_and_Caius_College).

cawacko
08-15-2009, 11:42 AM
DAMN, LA is really behind the times; because here in AZ, if you're the victim you owe NADA.
Maybe he wasn't as much a victim, as he would like us to believe.

Yeah you know I go around fracturing my own face for fun.

FUCK THE POLICE
08-15-2009, 01:44 PM
DAMN, LA is really behind the times; because here in AZ, if you're the victim you owe NADA.
Maybe he wasn't as much a victim, as he would like us to believe.

If you're a victim and the perp is never found?

I think it's fairer for society to pay in that case.

Damocles
08-15-2009, 01:49 PM
No, it didn't.

However the first symptoms of the degenerative disease he suffers from occurred when he was at university by which time the NHS was in existence.
I'd hope so, unless he was six when he was at university.

DamnYankee
08-15-2009, 02:31 PM
You had one?Yes, obviously.

Cancel5
08-15-2009, 04:40 PM
wrong, the American people back then also Rejected Socialized health care as they are now....get it straight..

Stupido is as stupido does! What do you think Medicare is and what will you use when you are 65? Will you be wealthy enough to pay for your medical care on your own? Will you reject your SS check?

We have socialism in Alaska, and I love it! Give me my PFD, baby!