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DigitalDave
08-03-2009, 08:01 AM
http://www.justplainpolitics.com/wamu-t18021.html

This is a continuation thread of the previous Washington Mutual thread discussing the legal clusterf. Basically, Washington Mutual Bank (WMB) was owned by a holding company by the name of Washing Mutual Inc (WMI). When the Office of Thrift Supervision (OTS) seized them last September, they did so under a ton of pressure from the FDIC and Paulson. The OTS had recently declared that WMB was well capitalized, placing them in Tier 1. They had plenty of cash to withstand a bankrun and could handle a huge loss on their loans. In addtion to that, WMI had a deposit with held by WMB totalling around $4B. WMBfsb had $10B cash sitting to be transferred to WMB on Sept. 30th to help capitalize the bank even further. WMB had access to around $50B from other sources if needed. So WMB was able to withstand anything the econmoy could throw at it, and they issued a statement before they were seized saying they had the capital to last until 2010.

JPMorgan was doing all they can to scare people from the bank however, and used ratings agencies and leaked confidential information to tarnish the Washington Mutual brand. They offered to by the bank earlier in the year fro $8 a common share, and the bank had been valued at $12 a share, so needless to say, WMB rejected the proposal. JPMorgan, basically put on a fake bid to extract as much info about WMB as possible, and signed a few contracts not to buy WMB unless it cam directly from them. Which they later broke the terms on by buying them through the FDIC. Hank Paulson's egotistical ass told the executives "You should have accepted the deal" as he worked with JPMorgan to screw them over. They refused to put WMB on the short sell ban list, which was quite odd considering WMB was one of the largest banks in the world. Nevertheless, they colluded and caused any havoc on the bank they could.

Despite all this, as stated in my first paragraph, WMB was able to handle all of it. The share price was horrible, but the bank was sound. Jamie Dimon and Paulson pulled a nice stunt however to try and cause a bankrun. It was all done electronically, but they and their buddies pulled around $16B out of the bank, and tried to screw up WMB's credit. The FDIC was also involved and put on an auction for the bank that had 4 bidders, but only one was allowed to bid (JPMorgan). Jamie Dimon later stated "I could of bid $1 for the bank and still got it."

On top of this, JPMorgan had 'moles' within WMB like Stephen Rotella, who now works for JPMorgan in the loan department.

So, WMI has a couple huge lawsuits pending, and they are represented by some of the best in each area they are pressing. They are using Weil to fight the FDIC in DC, and Quinn & Emmanual to fight JPMorgan in the bankruptcy court. Quinn has been having in incredible track record so far, and was able to successfully get the judge to issue a 2004 Discovery case against JPMorgan. Documents were to be turned over August 1st, which I have yet to hear anything about, but I'll be sure to relay that once I find out what happened. A couple Ihub posters said they didn't turn them over, but I don't trust those guys. I have my own sources and most of them back their claims up with Court documents, so I'll wait until I know. In the case against JPMorgan, they are suing for their $4B deposit, and damages for JPMorgan using the Washinton Mutual logos and trademarks owned by WMI. Those could posibly net WMI $16B. The 2004 Discovery could also potentially find more causes for action, or could end up delivering some damaging criminal charges towards JPMorgan. JPMorgan is taking the stance of 'delay, delay, delay' at this point, because they can't seem to win anything in the bankruptcy court. All they can do is hold things off, in hopes for a cheaper outcome. The more they wait though, the more that can come up in the Discovery process, so I don't think they have much time left.

The FDIC case is kind of just on a standstill, and I think that's going to be handled sometime in September, near the 1 year anniversary of the seizure.

Anyways, just bring the thread over here to keep the discussion going, and keep it fresh on a board I feel is more fit for it.

SmarterthanYou
08-03-2009, 09:15 AM
how much of the mainstream media is shining the light of day on this major theft?

Damocles
08-03-2009, 09:24 AM
Oh, I forgot to move that thread...

DigitalDave
08-03-2009, 09:47 AM
how much of the mainstream media is shining the light of day on this major theft?

The mainstream media is not shining any light on it. There are very few reporters covering it. One of the few who covers it is Peg Brinkley of Dow Jones News, and Law360.com seems to cover some each time they head to court. I don't know if the mainstream media has enough understanding of the case, nor has the cojones to report on this.

DigitalDave
08-03-2009, 12:20 PM
In a semi-related case:

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_080309WAB-wamu-golden-parachutes-SW.a3bdcbe8.html

The executives are taking the FDIC to court to get compensated.

DigitalDave
08-05-2009, 03:13 PM
A friend of mine called Tal S. of Weil today to get an update on the documents that JPM were supposed to submit by August 1st. She said to her knowledge, JPMorgan did not submit those. She suggested calling Quinn to see if they had any more info (which I'm sure she would already know if they did).

No Depositions are scheduled yet, and everytime we ask her about Weil not submitting a billing statement for teh past few months, she states "Hopefully this week". So something is up, lawyers want to get paid, and in the BK process, they have to submit bills to get paid. She also stated there were no plans to cancel equity. However if they come out of Chap 11 and A < L, then it is likely equity gets cancelled (just like any other BK case). If A > L then equity will get their share. She also stated that it would be 'accurate' when he asked if they would wait to come out of Chap. 11 until after the pending litigation.

DigitalDave
08-06-2009, 07:12 AM
After sleeping on it, and confirming with Tal that JPMorgan did not turn over documents (this would be contempt of court), the 'sceduling talks' that Quinn is working out Sullivan & Cromwell, JPMorgan is out of wiggle room. 2004 Discovery is not something to mess with. My guess is S&C (JPMorgans lawyers) is working out a settlement disguised as 'scheduling talks'. If JPMorgan were certain that they were innocent, they would have produced the documents, and probably much sooner then what they were required to do. Their delay tactic, coupled with this, leads me to believe that the time has near run out for them. They are working towards settlement, I just hope the FDIC is a part of that settlement and we can clear it all up in one swoop. JPMorgan knows they have to settle now though, and FDIC knew they would have to settle months ago, but they were probably just waiting on JPMorgan to pony up to reduce their own cost and save some face.

Cancel 2016.2
08-06-2009, 07:14 AM
A friend of mine called Tal S. of Weil today to get an update on the documents that JPM were supposed to submit by August 1st. She said to her knowledge, JPMorgan did not submit those. She suggested calling Quinn to see if they had any more info (which I'm sure she would already know if they did).

No Depositions are scheduled yet, and everytime we ask her about Weil not submitting a billing statement for teh past few months, she states "Hopefully this week". So something is up, lawyers want to get paid, and in the BK process, they have to submit bills to get paid. She also stated there were no plans to cancel equity. However if they come out of Chap 11 and A < L, then it is likely equity gets cancelled (just like any other BK case). If A > L then equity will get their share. She also stated that it would be 'accurate' when he asked if they would wait to come out of Chap. 11 until after the pending litigation.

Hmmm... I saw this exact information yesterday on Yahoo's message board. My guess is your friend posts there. :)

DigitalDave
08-06-2009, 07:26 AM
Yes, I talk with matt over there, and bop as well. They both have been great assets in spreading knowledge of the case. Since you found them, you can probably disregard anything I have to say, because they are usually my best two sources. Bop for legal knowledge, and matt for due diligence.

Cancel 2016.2
08-06-2009, 07:32 AM
Yes, I talk with matt over there, and bop as well. They both have been great assets in spreading knowledge of the case. Since you found them, you can probably disregard anything I have to say, because they are usually my best two sources. Bop for legal knowledge, and matt for due diligence.

Yeah, I have followed the two ever since you originally turned us on to the story. For a message board there are a surprising number of individuals who actually have a clue what is going on.

DigitalDave
08-06-2009, 07:36 AM
Yeah, I have followed the two ever since you originally turned us on to the story. For a message board there are a surprising number of individuals who actually have a clue what is going on.

You just have to have an itchy trigger finger with the ignore button. It gets way too much spam, and people who purposfully try and bash the situation with BS. I tried to turn a few of them on to this board so they can spread the word, but they are pretty much sticking to Yahoo.

Minister of Truth
08-06-2009, 12:49 PM
I have settled into banking with Chase now, but my dad has had issues getting them to continue his automatic payments and stuff. I'll have to ask if its been all sorted yet...

Cancel 2016.2
08-06-2009, 01:16 PM
You just have to have an itchy trigger finger with the ignore button. It gets way too much spam, and people who purposfully try and bash the situation with BS. I tried to turn a few of them on to this board so they can spread the word, but they are pretty much sticking to Yahoo.

I have a list of about 300 on ignore over there.... it grows every day.

Cancel 2016.2
08-06-2009, 01:17 PM
I have settled into banking with Chase now, but my dad has had issues getting them to continue his automatic payments and stuff. I'll have to ask if its been all sorted yet...

I hate Chase. I am in the process of shutting down my accounts with them. I will not do business with them after this WaMu fiasco.

DigitalDave
08-06-2009, 02:20 PM
I hate Chase. I am in the process of shutting down my accounts with them. I will not do business with them after this WaMu fiasco.

I have multiple reasons to hate Chase. The WaMu fiasco just tipped me off on their shady practices. I wasn't sure how well they treated customers until a couple months back when they raised my CC rate I had with them for no reason. So I transferred my balance to Discover and have a much better rate. It wasn't much, but I won't pay 30% interest on anything. F JPMorgan...

DigitalDave
08-06-2009, 02:21 PM
BTW. New Doc!

http://www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229090806000000000001.pdf

JPMorgan wants contact info for the noteholders. Probably want to cut a deal with them.

DigitalDave
08-07-2009, 07:17 AM
Super, did you see matt's conversation with one of Quinn's? Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy don't it? lol

DigitalDave
08-11-2009, 03:07 PM
Courtesy of ghostofreagan on Yahoo MB:

JPM Amended Counter Claim (attachments not included)
http://members.cox.net/raggztwitches/JPMAmendedCounterclaim.pdf

JPM Answering Brief
http://members.cox.net/raggztwitches/JPMAnsweringBrief.pdf

JPMorgan admits that WaMu was not insolvent at time of seizure in these documents. They are trying to throw the FDIC under the bus...

So now, will we see headlines stating that JPMorgan admits WaMu was not insolvent?

SmarterthanYou
08-11-2009, 03:08 PM
Courtesy of ghostofreagan on Yahoo MB:

JPM Amended Counter Claim (attachments not included)
http://members.cox.net/raggztwitches/JPMAmendedCounterclaim.pdf

JPM Answering Brief
http://members.cox.net/raggztwitches/JPMAnsweringBrief.pdf

JPMorgan admits that WaMu was not insolvent at time of seizure in these documents. They are trying to throw the FDIC under the bus...

So now, will we see headlines stating that JPMorgan admits WaMu was not insolvent?

k, now i'm interested in just who's going to be the speedbump :)

DigitalDave
08-11-2009, 03:11 PM
1st filing, p. 22

"22. There is substantial evidence that, contrary to Debtors’ unsupported
assertions, at the time of the receivership and at all relevant times before the receivership, WMI, WMB, and WMBfsb were solvent. Indeed, the OTS found that “WMB met the well-capitalized standards through the receivership date.” (OTS Fact Sheet 9/25/2008 (emphasis added).)"

Funny thing is, that seems like a Fruedian slip, because they are admitting that we were solvent, which the 'Debtors' were saying all along. They point to the OTS fact sheet to show that we WERE solvent. But yet they say "contrary to Debtors' unsupported assertions", they pay these guys big bucks to be this dumb.. lol

SmarterthanYou
08-11-2009, 03:16 PM
1st filing, p. 22

"22. There is substantial evidence that, contrary to Debtors’ unsupported
assertions, at the time of the receivership and at all relevant times before the receivership, WMI, WMB, and WMBfsb were solvent. Indeed, the OTS found that “WMB met the well-capitalized standards through the receivership date.” (OTS Fact Sheet 9/25/2008 (emphasis added).)"

Funny thing is, that seems like a Fruedian slip, because they are admitting that we were solvent, which the 'Debtors' were saying all along. They point to the OTS fact sheet to show that we WERE solvent. But yet they say "contrary to Debtors' unsupported assertions", they pay these guys big bucks to be this dumb.. lol

lawyers, love em or hate em.

DigitalDave
08-11-2009, 03:37 PM
"21. The acquisition included, among other things, a nationwide credit card
lending business, a multi-family and commercial real estate lending business, and nationwide mortgage banking activities. JPMC’s acquisition avoided an interruption in WMB’s banking services. It assured that the 2,207 branches operated by WMB, as well as the 26 additional branches operated by WMB fsb, opened for business on September 26, 2008, protecting the interests of employees, customers, vendors, and communities who were dependent on WMB’s banking operations. JPMC paid $1.88 billion dollars to the FDIC for these and other assets, and assumed all deposits. This transaction involved no financial assistance from, or cost to, the FDIC’s Deposit Insurance Fund. This stands in contrast to other recent bank failures such as the FDIC’s sale of IndyMac Federal Bank FSB, which cost the FDIC approximately $10.7 billion, despite IndyMac being a much smaller bank than WMB."

Cancel 2016.2
08-11-2009, 03:46 PM
Super, did you see matt's conversation with one of Quinn's? Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy don't it? lol

yeah, I saw that... I am trying to remain objective in the sense that this still may drag out for a while. Dimon is not going to go quietly.

DigitalDave
08-11-2009, 03:53 PM
yeah, I saw that... I am trying to remain objective in the sense that this still may drag out for a while. Dimon is not going to go quietly.

I'm prepared for this to go a couple years. I think it will be near the end of this year, but if not, then I'll jsut be paying capital gains tax rather than income tax ;)

Damocles
08-11-2009, 05:36 PM
I'm still buzzing from the massive gains from HGSI... Dude, I got that stuff at an average cost of 1.20, at one time today it was above 16.00... That's earnings..

:D

I'm looking forward to this one paying off too.

DigitalDave
08-13-2009, 06:53 AM
Media tone is starting to shift away from 'WaMu failed' to 'WaMu was given away'

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125007909275825709.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

"Mr. Dimon, who claims his bank never needed the $25 billion it returned to the government in June, seems to have forgotten the government's aid to his firm in the purchase of Bear Stearns Cos. and Washington Mutual Inc. last year, not to mention its aid to the banking industry in the crisis, which certainly would have leveled J.P. Morgan had the government not stepped in and backed Wall Street with the nation's credit."

DigitalDave
09-21-2009, 11:49 AM
Hold tight guys :) There is no news other than this week marks the 1 year anniversary and another Omnibus hearing at the end of the week. It will be up all week.

Cancel 2016.2
09-21-2009, 03:49 PM
Hold tight guys :) There is no news other than this week marks the 1 year anniversary and another Omnibus hearing at the end of the week. It will be up all week.

There was likely a lot of short covering today, I would expect a slight pullback tomorrow. 75% gains on no news?

That said, I agree that a hold is appropriate until this thing is settled, unless you want to risk the potential upside to capitalize on a potential pullback.

DigitalDave
09-23-2009, 11:17 AM
Guys, I create a MIXX Community to keep everyone updated and for other WAMU investors to keep in touch. Feel free to join here:

http://washingtonmutualinvestors.mixx.com/

DigitalDave
09-25-2009, 11:50 AM
http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/story/10603450/1/jpmorgans-wamu-deal-collateral-damage.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

At first, this article didn't even mention the WaMu fiasco, but he was probably alerted that we had a case against JPMorgan already. But, today, the Judge ruled that JPMorgan filed a frivilous appeal against a previous ruling of hers to keep the dispute in her court. They are F'ed, and have no wiggle room. This is the first time I've seen the rumor of settlement actually surface on a mainstream business site. Warning JPMorgan investors to be prepared.

Damocles
09-25-2009, 11:59 AM
Cha-Chiiiiiiiing!

Cancel 2016.2
09-25-2009, 12:14 PM
http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/story/10603450/1/jpmorgans-wamu-deal-collateral-damage.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

At first, this article didn't even mention the WaMu fiasco, but he was probably alerted that we had a case against JPMorgan already. But, today, the Judge ruled that JPMorgan filed a frivilous appeal against a previous ruling of hers to keep the dispute in her court. They are F'ed, and have no wiggle room. This is the first time I've seen the rumor of settlement actually surface on a mainstream business site. Warning JPMorgan investors to be prepared.

I wish I would have kept the original article. His 'updates' bring up most of the points I shot to him in an email this morning after reading the original article.

DigitalDave
09-25-2009, 12:17 PM
Yeah, the first article basically said 'Washington Mutual may go after JPMorgan as well if Lehmans succeeds.'

I was just thinking, is this guy an idiot or are we just extremely brilliant to already know this...

Cancel 2016.2
09-25-2009, 12:22 PM
Yeah, the first article basically said 'Washington Mutual may go after JPMorgan as well if Lehmans succeeds.'

I was just thinking, is this guy an idiot or are we just extremely brilliant to already know this...

I told him to do some research before writing

DigitalDave
09-25-2009, 12:37 PM
These WallStreet 'Analysts/Reporters' have really not been doing their job at all. It's amazing how ignorant they sound, and I've just gotten to the point where I just won't listen to them anymore. They don't do any research, they just base every assumption off of their incredible 'smarts'.

DigitalDave
11-20-2009, 10:40 AM
Here is some more shady shit from Chase:

http://www.prnewschannel.com/absolutenm/templates/?z=0&a=1898


(PRNewsChannel) / November 20, 2009 / Cupertino, Calif. / In a victory for former home equity line of credit (HELOC) customers of Washington Mutual Bank ("WAMU") who have been harmed by Chase’s broad-based HELOC credit reductions and suspensions, a federal court on Thursday denied a motion by JPMorgan Chase Bank (NYSE:JPM) that sought to require former WaMu customers to sue the F.D.I.C.—even in those instances where Chase itself is alleged to have acted illegally.


Cupertino homeowners Jeffrey and Jenifer Schulken, who originated their HELOC with WaMu, had their line suspended by Chase earlier this year when Chase claimed the couple’s finances would not allow them to make their HELOC payments. This is despite the fact the Schulkens enjoy excellent credit scores, maintain steady incomes, always make their payments on time and even pay extra toward the principal. The Schulkens responded by filing a lawsuit seeking class action status on behalf of all Chase customers who have had their HELOCs suspended or reduced unlawfully.

Chase responded by filing a motion to dismiss that argued it had no responsibility to former WaMu borrowers. According to Chase, although it purchased WaMu’s assets, it supposedly did not acquire any liability—even for its own misconduct. “Chase’s unprecedented position was fairly simple: Chase can harm former WaMu customers with impunity, and anyone who suffers damages should have to go sue the F.D.I.C.,” says the Schulkens’ attorney Jay Edelson, whose law firm, KamberEdelson LLC, has filed similar class actions against Chase, WaMu, Wells Fargo and Citibank. As Edelson explains, “Under Chase’s reasoning, it could seize former WaMu borrowers’ homes by force and throw people out on the street, and the only recourse would be for the former WaMu customers to sue the F.D.I.C. The court saw through Chase’s arrogant– and frankly scary – position.”

Chase purchased WaMu from the F.D.I.C. in September 2008 for $1.9 billion. Through creative “purchase accounting,” experts have forecast that Chase will realize a $29 billion windfall as a result of the acquisition.

“Its have your cake and $29 billion too,” continued Edelson. “Chase was supposed to use the bailout money to lend to consumers—not to freeze up credit lines. More than anything, it shows that Chase’s attitude is that no matter how poorly it behaves, the government should be on the hook for its improper acts. Its as if the bailout taught it nothing.”

Edelson had called upon Congress to act, a movement that is gaining significant support. “Call your Congressman and ask them where the bailout money went. It isn’t being used to get credit flowing, that’s for sure.”

Edelson is joined in the suit by KamberEdelson (http://www.kamberedelson.com) attorneys Evan Meyers, Steven Lezell and Irina Slavina.

About KamberEdelson: Jay Edelson testified before the U.S. Senate in 2008 in connection with the contaminated pet food recall, in which his law firm was lead counsel and achieved a result in a settlement of over $24 million. He has a reputation for bringing and winning high profile class action lawsuits. Just last year, Edelson settled a nationwide case involving lead paint contamination with Thomas the Tank Engine & Friends Wooden Railway children’s toys that was valued at over $30 million.

Media Contacts:
Glenn Selig
PR Firm: The Publicity Agency
(813) 708-1220 x 7777 Cell: (813) 300-5454
Email: glenn@thepublicityagency.com (BlackBerry)

Justin Herndon
PR Firm: The Publicity Agency
(813) 708-1220 x 7778 Cell: (813) 528-6815
Email: justin@thepublicityagency.com (BlackBerry)

Source: kamberedelson.com

So Chase tryed to push their illegal activity off on the FDIC. Like's like you are striking out Mr. Dimon. Did you also notice Chase should realize a $29 Billion windfall?

That will most certainly cost the FDIC for that mistake.

DigitalDave
11-20-2009, 10:45 AM
BTW, SF and Damo, have you looked lately at new law on the NOL's? Can we say KACHING!? lol

Anyways, they can now go back 5 years on the NOL's since they never took TARP money. WMI owns the NOLs and JPM can not claim them. Judge Mary Walrath already ruled that WMI own's the NOLs last year, but now they just increased in value by at least a couple billion.

Good Luck
11-21-2009, 12:56 PM
With all this shady (outright illegal?) background to the WaMu fiasco coming out, have former share holders and/or WaMu customers considered filing a class action suit of their own? I dumped WaMu from my portfolio for other reasons over a year before the JPM/FDIC heist, but I know a lot of shareholders were badly hurt in the proceedings.

I'd like to see JPM/Chase sued into non-existence, personally.

Damocles
11-21-2009, 04:35 PM
I'd like to see JPM sued into non-existence too, but only because they make me work hard....

Good Luck
11-21-2009, 06:16 PM
My son has an immaculate credit history, score well into the high 700s. He had a WaMu rewards credit card which he used for casual purchases, then paid it off each month. Only once did he keep a balance for 3 months - to buy a 54" plasma TV. His WaMu card online account had a very nice feature - for free - that kept a running tally of his credit score, plus auto pay and other niceties. First thing Chase did when they took over is halve the rewards for purchases, and take away most of the online features. Then they lowered his credit limit for no reason what so ever. Then not long ago they upped his standard interest rate (6.49%) to a variable rate: prime + 16%. By that time he'd shifted his casual purchases to another card, so didn't bother him much, except for the principle of it.

And they actually stated the reason for their change in policy right on the form: to "keep his account profitable."

Since when is almost 20% merely "profitable" - especially on a low risk account? It's more like outright robbery.

Or do they know something we don't? Like maybe an upcoming severe money crisis ala late 70s, when an interest rate of 16% barely kept up with inflation? OR are they anticipating taking a big bite in the butt from their outright theft of WaMu.

Not only do I hope they are sued into oblivion, I also hope several of the higher ups find themselves making little ones out of big ones at a federal pen.

Minister of Truth
11-22-2009, 01:17 AM
I liked WaMu, mostly I think because I live in Washington, so there was a sense of pride for me. Chase is just another bank, which, from all of your accounts, can go fuck itself.

Cancel 2016.2
11-23-2009, 09:49 AM
With all this shady (outright illegal?) background to the WaMu fiasco coming out, have former share holders and/or WaMu customers considered filing a class action suit of their own? I dumped WaMu from my portfolio for other reasons over a year before the JPM/FDIC heist, but I know a lot of shareholders were badly hurt in the proceedings.

I'd like to see JPM/Chase sued into non-existence, personally.

There is already a lawsuit against JPM. It has been on going for almost a year. Some of us own the stock post seizure as we believe that WaMu has a good chance of winning the lawsuit.

Disclaimer... to anyone reading this... this is STILL a hero or zero stock. Do not invest money that you cannot afford to lose. While I believe this stock (at least the preferreds) will return a nice profit, this suit involves not only JPM, but also the FDIC. When the government is involved, you never know what might happen. WaMu has a strong case... but you never know how these things might unfold or how much time it might take. Do your own due diligence and determine if it is appropriate for your portfolio. Don't base an investment decision off of what anonymous internet board posters state.

Cancel 2016.2
11-23-2009, 09:53 AM
I liked WaMu, mostly I think because I live in Washington, so there was a sense of pride for me. Chase is just another bank, which, from all of your accounts, can go fuck itself.

Jaime Dimon should be in jail. But the idiots in DC, in the media and on Wall Street worship him. Which is why he gets away with what he does. Whispers are already circulating that if Obama pulls the plug on Geithner that Dimon could be a front runner for the job. Which is very scary.

Sheila Bair should also be in jail for her hand in the financial meltdown fiasco. But knowing the idiots in DC, she will likely be made 'supreme czar' who presides over all the other czars to implement yet one more level of idiocy to the bureaucracy of our government.

DigitalDave
11-23-2009, 10:02 AM
There is already a lawsuit against JPM. It has been on going for almost a year. Some of us own the stock post seizure as we believe that WaMu has a good chance of winning the lawsuit.

Disclaimer... to anyone reading this... this is STILL a hero or zero stock. Do not invest money that you cannot afford to lose. While I believe this stock (at least the preferreds) will return a nice profit, this suit involves not only JPM, but also the FDIC. When the government is involved, you never know what might happen. WaMu has a strong case... but you never know how these things might unfold or how much time it might take. Do your own due diligence and determine if it is appropriate for your portfolio. Don't base an investment decision off of what anonymous internet board posters state.

SF, have you registered for the Ghost site? He's been posting updates on all court docs that come out, then they can be discussed individually in the forums. It is much better format than what Yahoo had, and there are already 600 users signed up. The DD is so much better now with that site in place.

DigitalDave
11-23-2009, 10:08 AM
Jaime Dimon should be in jail. But the idiots in DC, in the media and on Wall Street worship him. Which is why he gets away with what he does. Whispers are already circulating that if Obama pulls the plug on Geithner that Dimon could be a front runner for the job. Which is very scary.

Sheila Bair should also be in jail for her hand in the financial meltdown fiasco. But knowing the idiots in DC, she will likely be made 'supreme czar' who presides over all the other czars to implement yet one more level of idiocy to the bureaucracy of our government.

Bair, Paulson, Bernanke, Dimon, and Geitner should ALL be thrown in jail for their role in the financial meltdown. This organized shafting they put everyone through, yet they'll come out of it pounding thier chest about how great of a job they did pulling us out of it. Bernanke is basically just a figure head, and the whole Federal Reserve should just be gotten rid of.

Cancel 2016.2
11-23-2009, 10:21 AM
SF, have you registered for the Ghost site? He's been posting updates on all court docs that come out, then they can be discussed individually in the forums. It is much better format than what Yahoo had, and there are already 600 users signed up. The DD is so much better now with that site in place.

No... do you have the URL??

Cancel 2016.2
11-23-2009, 10:27 AM
Bair, Paulson, Bernanke, Dimon, and Geitner should ALL be thrown in jail for their role in the financial meltdown. This organized shafting they put everyone through, yet they'll come out of it pounding thier chest about how great of a job they did pulling us out of it. Bernanke is basically just a figure head, and the whole Federal Reserve should just be gotten rid of.

Agreed.

The incestuous relationship between Goldman and the Government also needs to be highlighted in more detail. This crap has to stop. Oh, you flop out of your government office... no worries, come work for Goldman. Oh, a top position opens up in Treasury... let's go to Goldman and see who they want to send us this time.

DigitalDave
11-23-2009, 10:39 AM
No... do you have the URL??

I'll PM you, he closed registration a couple days back and it's by invite only now, so if you let me know your email addy, I'll have him open the site for you.

Don Quixote
11-23-2009, 11:14 AM
over 140 banks have failed to date per the fdic

the financial markets are as bad as congress when it comes to shafting people

DigitalDave
11-23-2009, 11:38 AM
over 140 banks have failed to date per the fdic

the financial markets are as bad as congress when it comes to shafting people

I would say the financial markets are worse than congress. The big banks have deep pockets, and they work hard to get people into government positions. I was watching an interview of a former executive at, I believe Morgan Stanley, the other night on Bloomberg. He basically said he knew the lonas banks were giving out were bad, but it got to a point where they had to do it just to compete with the other banks. JPMorgan have huge problems, much bigger than a loan portfolio, that they needed to take care off. So, the government helped bail them out of that mess by seizing banks with enough capital to withstand the market collapse (which the collapse had nothing to do with home loans, despite popular belief). When a bank has 80 Trillion (yes I said Trillion) in the derivative market, you think 30 Billion is going to cause them to stop lending? The banks stopped lending on purpose, and even when cash was infused, they didn't change course. They created this last recession, and our nations monetary institutions helped them. They have complete control, and until we take steps to unwind the control they have, we will keep seeing recessions occur on a regular basis.

DigitalDave
12-15-2009, 09:51 PM
Posted a new blog entry, things are getting interesting :)

Cancel 2016.2
12-15-2009, 10:41 PM
Posted a new blog entry, things are getting interesting :)

I seriously hope Dimon goes to jail for a very long time. Right along with Sheila.

DigitalDave
12-15-2009, 11:00 PM
I seriously hope Dimon goes to jail for a very long time. Right along with Sheila.

Agreed, and throw in this guy too:

Cancel 2016.2
12-15-2009, 11:05 PM
Agreed, and throw in this guy too:

where did you get that email???? Holy shit... if they have bombs like that already in the public domain, imagine the nukes they still have in their pocket.

DigitalDave
12-15-2009, 11:16 PM
where did you get that email???? Holy shit... if they have bombs like that already in the public domain, imagine the nukes they still have in their pocket.

You can see it in the latest court filing. Like I said in my blog.. the gloves are off, they aren't playing nice anymore.. and I'm sure they have more damning evidence than that.

Cancel 2016.2
12-15-2009, 11:24 PM
You can see it in the latest court filing. Like I said in my blog.. the gloves are off, they aren't playing nice anymore.. and I'm sure they have more damning evidence than that.

I read the blog post, but had trouble pulling up the court doc site... I will try it again from work tomorrow. Thanks for posting all of this. I assume it is also on Ghosts site. I will have to check that out tomorrow as well.

Damocles
12-16-2009, 07:54 AM
I'm looking forward to cashing in...

Mwahahahaha!

Topspin
12-16-2009, 07:57 AM
talk about pissing in the wind, JD was banker of the Year.

DigitalDave
12-16-2009, 09:08 AM
talk about pissing in the wind, JD was banker of the Year.

Yeah, because idiots praised him for all the awesome deals he made. Those idiots didn't check into the legality of those deals.

Topspin
12-16-2009, 09:11 AM
Yeah, because idiots praised him for all the awesome deals he made. Those idiots didn't check into the legality of those deals.

Ok, LOL

DigitalDave
12-16-2009, 09:28 AM
Ok, LOL

They also didn't have access to things like this:

Topspin
12-16-2009, 10:55 AM
wow hope you have more than that. LOL

Damocles
12-16-2009, 10:56 AM
wow hope you have more than that. LOL
You haven't been paying any attention if you think that is what he "has"...

DigitalDave
12-16-2009, 11:12 AM
wow hope you have more than that. LOL

Oh, plenty more than that... got 750 pages of stuff on Monday. If you look at who the powerpoint slide was meant for (Ratings Agencies), you can see JPM was collaborating with them to try and force WaMu down. They were letting them know what their intentions were and how they planned on getting WaMu months before the seizure. I understand you probably aren't paying attention to what I've been telling you the past 9 months or so, but to think this is all I got is pretty funny.

<sarcasm>
I spent 9 months of my life researching, and all I got was this lousy powerpoint slide...
</sarcasm>

Topspin
12-16-2009, 11:18 AM
yawnnn!!!!!!!!!!

DigitalDave
12-16-2009, 12:01 PM
yawnnn!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, here is something cut and dry for you, and I'll start by making it easy for you since the rest of it is way over your head and boring. JPMorgan convinced the FDIC to cover some of the damages they will face when WMI was going to sue for breach of contract. They knew they were violating that contract, and they admit that here:

Topspin
12-16-2009, 12:33 PM
news flash a business man did something someone disagreed with

DigitalDave
12-16-2009, 04:45 PM
news flash a business man did something someone disagreed with

Ok top... I guess as long as you put it that way, we can throw out all the laws that were broken in the process. Stop being facetious... just go read everything that's been provided for you. I gave you the link to the court document handed out Monday, they didn't use 750 pages to say 'hes a mean evil man'. I don't have time to play games with you. I would rather be digging deeper.

DigitalDave
12-16-2009, 08:10 PM
Guys, an Equity Committee has been formed and approvd by the Trustee!

Cancel 2016.2
12-16-2009, 08:15 PM
Guys, an Equity Committee has been formed and approvd by the Trustee!

What is your take on that...

To me, that would suggest that a settlement is more likely as now all parties are represented.

Not to mention that document did a pretty good bitch slapping of JPM.

DigitalDave
12-16-2009, 08:25 PM
What is your take on that...

To me, that would suggest that a settlement is more likely as now all parties are represented.

Not to mention that document did a pretty good bitch slapping of JPM.

Text from filing:


Further, the U.S. Trustee believes that there are exigent circumstances which require
having the motion heard on December 18. Specifically, the U.S. Trustee’s inability to solicit interest
in forming an official committee of equity security holders, if further delayed, may result in
prejudice to the interests of that constituency, given that there are a number of affirmative claims
the Debtors are asserting that may be the subject of settlement negotiations. The interests of equity
need to be protected with respect to those proceedings.

Settlement talks were already on-going, but Equity wasn't protected yet. It will probably scare JPM, because now JPM has to negotiate with shareholders as well. WMI may oppose this as well just because they may be worried our involvment may slow down negotiations. I don't think they fight too hard, if at all. They woul be smart to work with us because we want the same thing they do, and we were hurt by this just as well.

Topspin
12-17-2009, 06:01 AM
Looks to me like JPM is coming out on top, don't get me wrong Son. I hope you both make 10 million on your investment.

DigitalDave
12-17-2009, 07:30 AM
Looks to me like JPM is coming out on top, don't get me wrong Son. I hope you both make 10 million on your investment.

Right... just a quick question. Why do you think they'll come out on top, because Jamie Dimon said he's going to defeat all the lawsuits against JPM?

Btw, the last one he had to settle with that county. I guess you can say he defeated it by settleing out of court.

So where are you getting your advice from?

Damocles
12-17-2009, 11:31 AM
At this point if the government doesn't step in and get a good settlement they run the risk of outting themselves. I say settlement and quickly now, then I say we should ride it up with stops until we cash in near the top....

DigitalDave
12-18-2009, 01:10 PM
News of the day..

WMI is going to object to the formation of the EC. Good news is, the Trustee isn't going to back down. This is just standard practice in bankruptcy. One more group the lawyers have to deal with, and they can't take all the spoils.

Cancel 2016.2
12-18-2009, 01:14 PM
News of the day..

WMI is going to object to the formation of the EC. Good news is, the Trustee isn't going to back down. This is just standard practice in bankruptcy. One more group the lawyers have to deal with, and they can't take all the spoils.

Nice roller coaster on the share prices the last couple of days.

DigitalDave
12-18-2009, 01:26 PM
Nice roller coaster on the share prices the last couple of days.

Yep, todays comments in court is what dropped the price. Rosen stated that as of right now, there is no money for equity (duh), and doens't know why the Trustee is pushing for it. Truth is, there is money coming in soon outside of litigation that will push A above L, and with the current litigation, equity will certainly get something. WMI is hiding those assets until they can get some litigation resolved and put together a plan (which of course they will have to work with the EC once formed). Most Bankrupty cases don't get an EC because the Trustee is the hardest to convince that equity has a chance. The trustee is on our side, and won't be swayed. He got snarky with Rosen and told him he has nothing he can argue with, just get him a list. That exchange scared off some of the daytraders that jumped in on the wave, but the lawyers will almost always fight against equity. They will have to provide Judge Walrath with more than a MOR to convince her equity doesn't deserve protection.

DigitalDave
12-22-2009, 07:56 AM
Posted a new blog post:

http://www.justplainpolitics.com/blog.php?u=33

Cancel 2016.2
01-04-2010, 09:50 AM
Posted a new blog post:

http://www.justplainpolitics.com/blog.php?u=33

rough moves the last couple of days :)

Topspin
01-04-2010, 09:53 AM
I like JPM here.

Cancel 2016.2
01-04-2010, 09:55 AM
I like JPM here.

that's nice.... I like the fact that Wamu is up over 100% in the last two trading days...

DigitalDave
01-04-2010, 10:29 AM
I like the fact that I suggested to you to buy the P's below $5 months ago, and they are at $99.50 right now, toppy. JPM maybe doubled since then, I'm up 2000% from the original price I bought them at. My tiny bit of K's I bought are up nearl 111% today alone. The commons, are extremely cheap right now top. I'm letting you know now, that though the preffereds are running, the commons will see money, and will get paid at a better rate than what you can buy the preffereds at. Though the preffereds are a safer play and you can still cash in at 10x gain, then hold for dividends. Commons are still looking like a 70-100x gain when all is said and done, and thats if Weil goes easy on JPM. JPM can repurchase WMI with WMI's own money before the seizure and commons will see 8-10 a share.

Topspin
01-04-2010, 10:39 AM
lot's of penny stocks jump around.
I don't do companies that are shut down or in bankrupcy.

Obviously I wish I had bought at the bottom
But I stick with blue chips not dog shit chips.

DigitalDave
01-04-2010, 10:48 AM
lot's of penny stocks jump around.
I don't do companies that are shut down or in bankrupcy.

Obviously I wish I had bought at the bottom
But I stick with blue chips not dog shit chips.

A piece of dog shit that is worth $1000 a turd. It's unfortunate you aren't bright enough to invest in something when plain facts are slammed right in your face about what is going on months and months before the media even remotely touches it. I'm just glad some people here looked into it and saw the same thing I did. Unfortunatly, the 'investment guru' of the board can't see a diamond in the rough, and is happy with minimal gains.

Topspin
01-04-2010, 10:51 AM
A piece of dog shit that is worth $1000 a turd. It's unfortunate you aren't bright enough to invest in something when plain facts are slammed right in your face about what is going on months and months before the media even remotely touches it. I'm just glad some people here looked into it and saw the same thing I did. Unfortunatly, the 'investment guru' of the board can't see a diamond in the rough, and is happy with minimal gains.

You owned that turd before it went to bankrupcy!!!

I wonder why business news isn't always touting stocks in bankrupcy???

DigitalDave
01-04-2010, 10:57 AM
You owned that turd before it went to bankrupcy!!!

I wonder why business news isn't always touting stocks in bankrupcy???

I know I did, and I averaged down after that. Business news waited 9 months to tout the stock, though the facts were given to them too. You stick with what the fake ass analysts tell you, be happy, because they don't get behind a stock until they feel safe enough to tell you about it.

Topspin
01-04-2010, 10:58 AM
I know I did, and I averaged down after that. Business news waited 9 months to tout the stock, though the facts were given to them too. You stick with what the fake ass analysts tell you, be happy, because they don't get behind a stock until they feel safe enough to tell you about it.

I do my own analysis
But he long shots pay off sometimes

Cancel 2016.2
01-04-2010, 11:07 AM
A piece of dog shit that is worth $1000 a turd. It's unfortunate you aren't bright enough to invest in something when plain facts are slammed right in your face about what is going on months and months before the media even remotely touches it. I'm just glad some people here looked into it and saw the same thing I did. Unfortunatly, the 'investment guru' of the board can't see a diamond in the rough, and is happy with minimal gains.

I do thank you for bringing it to my attention last March/April

Damocles
01-04-2010, 11:11 AM
Yup. I too thank DD for bringing this one to my attention...

DigitalDave
01-04-2010, 11:16 AM
I do my own analysis
But he long shots pay off sometimes

If you read what I posted back then, I didn't even hint that this was a long shot. I stated that you should only invest with what you can afford to lose, but I was very confident, and for good reason. The jump this last few days isn't due to the litigation, which is only going to add value. The run is due to the NOL's being reported. WMI has an extra $3 Billion, but the funny thing is, I told you about those too over a month ago. This run is due to hoards of people who know little about what's going on, like yourself, and just follow the herd, and finally see that preffereds really will get paid, without litigation being concluded.

Facts are facts, and they were handed to you on a silver platter, and you laughed at them. Now they are smacking you in the face. Super and Damo didn't just take my word for it either, they did their own analysis, and they saw I wasn't bullshitting. I'm not bullshitting you now either, an Equity Committee is being formed while WMI is still under bankruptcy protection for a reason, and it isn't because commons won't see a dime. Your analysts are still dumbfounded as to why an EC is being formed, but it's a very simple concept... equity is going to be 'in the money'. The run on those is very minimal at the moment, and they are going to pop just as the preffereds did once those settle down and news about the Equity Committee comes through that it's final. This is not anything you'll see on thestreet.com, don't wait for those douchebags to report the news after the fact. Take your time, do some reasearch into what I'm telling you, because you still have a chance at some huge gains. Don't wait for Cramer to scream Boo-Yah at you.

DigitalDave
01-04-2010, 11:24 AM
I do thank you for bringing it to my attention last March/April

No problem fellas. I know there are a few others that may have taken the advice, and ran with it. The bucking bronco is still active, so don't be scared by the dips. But if you are looking to play a little with your gains, move a small percentage of what you hold in preffereds (I.E. 5%, your initial investment) and buy the commons before others do the same, unless your waiting for your investment to turn long... which isn't a bad move either.

Topspin
01-04-2010, 11:26 AM
I didn't laugh you tool, I may buy some after the next dive as I respect the shit out of Freak and Damo's investing acumen.
I was pulling your leg mostly, cause I'm bored.

Cancel 2016.2
01-04-2010, 11:33 AM
No problem fellas. I know there are a few others that may have taken the advice, and ran with it. The bucking bronco is still active, so don't be scared by the dips. But if you are looking to play a little with your gains, move a small percentage of what you hold in preffereds (I.E. 5%, your initial investment) and buy the commons before others do the same, unless your waiting for your investment to turn long... which isn't a bad move either.

Bought commons at .18 and then again when it dipped to 0.10. With this run in Preferreds I am considering shifting some more towards common.

Damocles
01-04-2010, 11:47 AM
Bought commons at .18 and then again when it dipped to 0.10. With this run in Preferreds I am considering shifting some more towards common.
Yeah, I was watching this and wondering if it was time for a move as well. I may take just a percentage from the Ps into the commons...

Cancel 2016.2
01-04-2010, 11:55 AM
Yeah, I was watching this and wondering if it was time for a move as well. I may take just a percentage from the Ps into the commons...

The way I see it... IF P's were to go to face value from here it would be 10x your current value.

Commons going to $2 would do slightly better.... and I think commons could see $5+ relatively easily. Obviously risk increases quite a bit by shifting to commons, so it is a balancing act of risk/return that we each have to make for ourselves.

The best part... I converted my shares from my IRA to my Roth last year, shifted some assets into an energy deal to keep my AGI under $100k (to avoid blowing up the conversion)... now the gains in Wamu are tax free. :)

Damocles
01-04-2010, 11:58 AM
Sweet... I'll have to pay, but m'eh... It's all money that I expected to flush.

DigitalDave
01-12-2010, 10:25 AM
Ok, Equity Committee is complete. 5 of the 7 names on the committee I've interacted with on various message boards and email. There is also one small hedge fund on the committee. This is good news.

Weil is opposing the committee of course, but they don't have much of an argument because the arguements they do provide really have no bearing on whether an Equity Committee gets formed or not. Considering Equity also represents preffered shares, and with the NOL carryback, they are 'in the money', the arguement that common's are not currently in the money does not effectively dispute the requirement that there is a significant likelyhood that equity will have a recovery. Their only other arguement was that shareholders have not provided anything much of value to WMI. I have to laugh at that because I've seen them use arguements brought forth from other investors that gladly sent them that information to help with the case, almost word for word. So, it almost seems as if they are throwing us a bone, doing their duty to oppose, but understand they don't have much of an option. So the next thing they want is a cap on expenses for our lawyers. They want to cap it at $250,000 a month. To me, its ridiculous to request that, but we are one resourceful group of shareholders. If it comes down to that, we will just band together, like we have for the past 16 months, and do the grunt work an provide the information to our lawyers so they don't have to do the leg work.

DigitalDave
03-10-2010, 12:12 PM
Optimists are predicting settlement this week. Pessimists think we will only settle on the $4B plus a little extra. Either way, this week is a big week. Stay tuned, Friday we will get the final word on what's going on behind the scenes. We know JPM felt the heat and wants to settle, and so does the FDIC. So, WHAT the settlement entails is the question.

Cancel 2016.2
03-10-2010, 07:08 PM
Optimists are predicting settlement this week. Pessimists think we will only settle on the $4B plus a little extra. Either way, this week is a big week. Stay tuned, Friday we will get the final word on what's going on behind the scenes. We know JPM felt the heat and wants to settle, and so does the FDIC. So, WHAT the settlement entails is the question.

here's to a potentially very happy end of the week...

Topspin
03-11-2010, 08:51 AM
I bought a couple thousand shares as a lottery ticket!!!

Damocles
03-11-2010, 10:20 AM
I bought a couple thousand shares as a lottery ticket!!!
Good. I'm glad you got on the train finally.

Topspin
03-11-2010, 11:13 AM
Good. I'm glad you got on the train finally.

I admit I don't know jack about the case, and I like Jamie Diamond. But the WAMU fanboy's here are convincing enough to make me buy that lottery ticket, heck it won't be the only bad long shot I make this year. It is the first pink sheet stock I've ever bought.

Cancel 2016.2
03-11-2010, 01:02 PM
I admit I don't know jack about the case, and I like Jamie Diamond. But the WAMU fanboy's here are convincing enough to make me buy that lottery ticket, heck it won't be the only bad long shot I make this year. It is the first pink sheet stock I've ever bought.

Jamie Diamond is a fucking crook. Period. JPM is one of the dirtiest banks in the world... right behind Goldman. They continue fucking over the populace, provide some money to the politicians campaigns, then listen as the politicians call them 'saavy' business people while the media jerks them off under the table.

Topspin
03-11-2010, 01:19 PM
Jamie Diamond is a fucking crook. Period. JPM is one of the dirtiest banks in the world... right behind Goldman. They continue fucking over the populace, provide some money to the politicians campaigns, then listen as the politicians call them 'saavy' business people while the media jerks them off under the table.

that kinda name calling comes with "Banker of the Year" winners

DigitalDave
03-11-2010, 08:53 PM
topspin, I noticed you used the term 'lottery ticket', probably refering to the recent article put out by CNBC quoting CRT Capital's Kevin Starke. Check out who is in charge of CRT, and notice they happen to have worked for JPMorgan. So, beware of who you get your information from in the media. There are people covering the case in detail that go to every omnibus and hearing (Kirsten Grind and Peg Brinkley). Kevin Starke doesn't know shit...

http://www.crtllc.com/bio_detail_management.aspx?UID=208&SID=1
http://www.crtllc.com/bio_detail_research.aspx?UID=215
http://www.crtllc.com/bio_detail_management.aspx?UID=123&SID=1

This is a little better than a lottery ticket ;)

Topspin
03-12-2010, 07:53 AM
topspin, I noticed you used the term 'lottery ticket', probably refering to the recent article put out by CNBC quoting CRT Capital's Kevin Starke. Check out who is in charge of CRT, and notice they happen to have worked for JPMorgan. So, beware of who you get your information from in the media. There are people covering the case in detail that go to every omnibus and hearing (Kirsten Grind and Peg Brinkley). Kevin Starke doesn't know shit...

http://www.crtllc.com/bio_detail_management.aspx?UID=208&SID=1
http://www.crtllc.com/bio_detail_research.aspx?UID=215
http://www.crtllc.com/bio_detail_management.aspx?UID=123&SID=1

This is a little better than a lottery ticket ;)

I see this thing getting more hype than it deserves, that and the respect I have for you and freaks has me in for a couple thousands shares. Peace

cawacko
04-12-2010, 05:48 PM
Bump of this thread for Desh.

DigitalDave
04-12-2010, 09:39 PM
Killinger will be in front of the Senate Committee tommorow to discuss the WaMu situation. Check out what he has in store!

http://assets.bizjournals.com/cms_media/seattle/Kerry%20Killinger%20Written%20Statement%204-12-10.pdf

'Too clubby to fail'...lol. So glad all that I fund out this past year is got the spotlight shinig right on it. C-Span 3 tommorow folks!