Kerry did not even mention the troops, that was Bush!

[Jarod]

Kerry did not even mention the troops... it was Bush who draged the troops into this!

[Damocles]

LOL. Who else is "stuck in Iraq"? Man this is some serious spin and it must be talking points, two libs saying the same thing within minutes? When were they delivered?

[Care4all]

Why did President Bush and the Republicans do this to demoralize our troops?

They must really despise them, deep down in side, and think of them as just "pawns" in their chess game, biting the dust, sacraficing themselves for the sake of the king and queen....

I can't BELIEVE they brought in the "troops" in to Kerry's statement when HE NEVER EVEN MENTIONED "the troops" or soldiers that evening....he was talking about the Bush Policies and mannerisms that have harmed us....true political discussion....

But the Administration, and their other Pawns and Rooks, decided it was "right and just" to demoralize our troops for the sake of exploitation of this, with the republican spin and twisting, regardless of harming our troops, doing their bidding, with their lives.

It is a SAD day, indeed! :(

[Damocles]

He said: "You know, education -- if you make the most of it, you study hard and you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well.

"If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

Tell me Care. Who else do democrats think are "stuck in Iraq" other than our troops?

[Damocles]

It is disingenuous to attempt to spin it so that it supposedly doesn't mean what it says....

[Care4all]

LOL. Who else is "stuck in Iraq"? Man this is some serious spin and it must be talking points, two libs saying the same thing within minutes? When were they delivered?

I would suggest you review the entire speech, before you go on... ;), then you might know why we, that have seen it, are saying the same thing....we saw it and heard it and heard the crowds response to it, and know PRECISELY what Kerry meant when he said this...

Why are they cutting off the laughter that was part of this one liner, when they are airing itm huh? Because it would make it very clear, as to what kerry was saying and how the audience understood it, and that is why they were laughing....?

Answer: Because then there would be "no controversy", and "No Story" in the same breath and lower ratings...

The troops were not mention by Kerry, only by people propigating this "lie" that says that he was most certainly speaking about the troops...

He wasn't, period. He never mentioned the troops or soldiers, and ONLY those of you that THINK this, are the ones saying this about him and his intentions with this statement.

unethical imo, to say the least...and it hurts, I repeat HURTS, our troops for the benefit of the republican spin....

R's are desparate....and have "no plans" and "no record" to run on.....that's the bottom line....imo.

fyi....go to c-span, you can get the whole speech there...

care

[Damocles]

They didn't cut off the laughter in the ones that I heard this morning on my way to work. It didn't make it any better, Care.

The first thing that ran through my mind was, "You do know that there isn't a draft, don't you?"

There are precious few other ways that the statement can be construed, in fact intellectually honest people know that it is a negative for Ds that he stated it. Those who laughed believe that they are "better" than those who are serving, but it doesn't mean that the statement was taken in that context which the Ds are attempting to spin it after the fact.

[AnyOldIron]

It's hard to imagine that signing up for a debacle that is the biggest foreign policy disaster since Vietnam / Suez, would be described as a smart thing to do.....

[uscitizen]

Why did President Bush and the Republicans do this to demoralize our troops?

They must really despise them, deep down in side, and think of them as just "pawns" in their chess game, biting the dust, sacraficing themselves for the sake of the king and queen....

I can't BELIEVE they brought in the "troops" in to Kerry's statement when HE NEVER EVEN MENTIONED "the troops" or soldiers that evening....he was talking about the Bush Policies and mannerisms that have harmed us....true political discussion....

But the Administration, and their other Pawns and Rooks, decided it was "right and just" to demoralize our troops for the sake of exploitation of this, with the republican spin and twisting, regardless of harming our troops, doing their bidding, with their lives.

It is a SAD day, indeed! :(

They did not do it for that reason Care, they did it to get the troops to vote Republican. And also to pull some fence sitters back to their side.
and also because they are lousy misleading republicans.

[Immanuel]

The inference with his statement "you end up in Iraq" is that he is talking about our troops.

He slipped up. I do not for the life of me believe he was denigrating our troops. I believe he was making an effort to sucker punch the President and his words came out wrong. In boxing terms, he threw a punch at the President and left himself wide open for a tremendous upper cut that made him see stars.

Only a fool would believe that he would be stupid (should I say Bush enough?) enough to say such a thing about our troops.

Immie

[Prakosh]

Kerry is a mindless fucking Dunce who should be locked up around election time. He lost to Bush in a fradulent election. He had a $4 million dollar election fraud fund especially set aside to fight the fraud. When it came time to stand up and fight for the vote, he folded. He made numerous gaffs during his own campaign. And he continues to make them. Instead of making complex issues simple, he continuously makes simple issues complex. I have grown to dislike him over the past 3 years. I happen to think he is right about this and that the miliatry is mostly made up of people who are unable to go to college or are unable to pay for it without the help of veterans benefits, but saying so or saying something that might be interpreted as saying so in the middle of a close and closely watched election campaign might not be the wisest move. And this is coming from a Vietnam vet who was against the Vietnam war and supported Kerry's statements before Congress and knows that everything that Kerry said about atrocities and other things connected to Vietnam is true. However, from the time of his "reporting for duty" statement at the end of his acceptance speech at the Democratic National Convention in 2004, I have become more and more disenchanted with him. At this point I am just disgusted with him. In short, as he has grown older and richer, he has become someone I no longer recognize, nor support.

[Damocles]

Kerry is a mindless fucking Dunce who should be locked up around election time. He lost to Bush in a fradulent election. He had a $4 million dollar election fraud fund especially set aside to fight the fraud. When it came time to stand up and fight for the vote, he folded. He made numerous gaffs during his own campaign. And he continues to make them. Instead of making complex issues simple, he continuously makes simple issues complex. I have grown to dislike him over the past 3 years. I happen to think he is right about this and that the miliatry is mostly made up of people who are unable to go to college or are unable to pay for it without the help of veterans benefits, but saying so or saying something that might be interpreted as saying so in the middle of a close and closely watched election campaign might not be the wisest move. And this is coming from a Vietnam vet who was against the Vietnam war and supported Kerry's statements before Congress and knows that everything that Kerry said about atrocities and other things connected to Vietnam is true. However, from the time of his "reporting for duty" statement at the end of his acceptance speech at the Democratic National Convention in 2004, I have become more and more disenchanted with him. At this point I am just disgusted with him. In short, as he has grown older and richer, he has become someone I no longer recognize, nor support.
Well said, Prakosh.

[Care4all]

in the previous one liner, and all of those prior to this, he was speaking about the president and his administration and advisors, and their faults and mistakes and lies that they passed on were things that have prolonged this war in Iraq, which makes us "stuck" there.....

Troops were not who he was talking about on the "not doing their homework" statement Damo....

And the Republicans pulled out this one liner and INSERTED their OWN WORDS to SAY that John Kerry's gaff, meant this about the troops, trying to deflect these comments about the President and INTENTIONALLY MADE THIS IN TO A STATEMENT ABOUT THE TROOPS, by intentionally taking it out of context, not discussing the issues that were being discussed, the decisions the president and his teams have made, that has gotten us "stuck, in Iraq"....and yes, the troops are the ones physically stuck there, and the American people as well are stuck there with the taxes being borrowed and owed by us for being there, because of poor decisions by the republican decision makers, in running this war, including rumsfeld and the President of the USA...

[Damocles]

in the previous one liner, and all of those prior to this, he was speaking about the president and his administration and advisors, and their faults and mistakes and lies that they passed on were things that have prolonged this war in Iraq, which makes us "stuck" there.....

Troops were not who he was talking about on the "not doing their homework" statement Damo....

And the Republicans pulled out this one liner and INSERTED their OWN WORDS to SAY that John Kerry's gaff, meant this about the troops, trying to deflect these comments about the President and INTENTIONALLY MADE THIS IN TO A STATEMENT ABOUT THE TROOPS, by intentionally taking it out of context, not discussing the issues that were being discussed, the decisions the president and his teams have made, that has gotten us "stuck, in Iraq"....and yes, the troops are the ones physically stuck there, and the American people as well are stuck there with the taxes being borrowed and owed by us for being there, because of poor decisions by the republican decision makers, in running this war, including rumsfeld and the President of the USA...
In this remark he was remarking how the President is going to stick those poor "uneducated" people in Iraq. It was still a hack at the President, it just unintentionally got some on the troops at the same time. It was a gaff, it shouldn't have been said, and the spin afterward has been hilarious to watch.

[Damocles]

Especially this newest talking point... "He didn't say 'troops'..." That is the funniest one so far!

[Care4all]

Kerry is a mindless fucking Dunce who should be locked up around election time. He lost to Bush in a fradulent election. He had a $4 million dollar election fraud fund especially set aside to fight the fraud. When it came time to stand up and fight for the vote, he folded. He made numerous gaffs during his own campaign. And he continues to make them. Instead of making complex issues simple, he continuously makes simple issues complex. I have grown to dislike him over the past 3 years. I happen to think he is right about this and that the miliatry is mostly made up of people who are unable to go to college or are unable to pay for it without the help of veterans benefits, but saying so or saying something that might be interpreted as saying so in the middle of a close and closely watched election campaign might not be the wisest move. And this is coming from a Vietnam vet who was against the Vietnam war and supported Kerry's statements before Congress and knows that everything that Kerry said about atrocities and other things connected to Vietnam is true. However, from the time of his "reporting for duty" statement at the end of his acceptance speech at the Democratic National Convention in 2004, I have become more and more disenchanted with him. At this point I am just disgusted with him. In short, as he has grown older and richer, he has become someone I no longer recognize, nor support.

on this one...you have NO IDEA of what you are talking about...sorry, but you don't....

not about how you have changed over the 3 years and about kerry not have the "umph" to fite the fraud that occured in the election...because I totally agree with you...

But your assesment of what Kerry said and meant is TOTALLY WRONG....

yes, he left a word out of a poorly delivered one liner, but the crowd MOST CERTAINLY got it , and laughed really hard...this is NOT being shown on tv when they show kerry's oneliner flub....

This is MOST MERTAINLY the case with the media, I am still watching it and it has NEVER BEEN SHOWN IN FULL ON CNN, not last night and not today, not has it been shown in full on FOX, and even msnbc has NOT been showing the full clip ANYMORE, other than on olberman's show...

they want a controversy to make the otherwise boring, blow away race, more interesting...that is the media conglomerates, want this, and the repubs just want to deflect away from their own incompetent record in Iraq.imo.

[Damocles]

Kerry, first of all, had a lower GPA than Bush at the very same school. An attempt to say he was "uneducated" is laughable. That isn't who he was saying was "uneducated" and that is very clear...

This pretense that supposedly somebody that went to Harvard and got a better GPA than Kerry is "uneducated" is silly spin that is so easily shown to be wrong that I can't believe the Dems are falling for it!

[Prakosh]

on this one...you have NO IDEA of what you are talking about...sorry, but you don't....

not about how you have changed over the 3 years and about kerry not have the "umph" to fite the fraud that occured in the election...because I totally agree with you...

But your assesment of what Kerry said and meant is TOTALLY WRONG....

yes, he left a word out of a poorly delivered one liner, but the crowd MOST CERTAINLY got it , and laughed really hard...this is NOT being shown on tv when they show kerry's oneliner flub....

This is MOST MERTAINLY the case with the media, I am still watching it and it has NEVER BEEN SHOWN IN FULL ON CNN, not last night and not today, not has it been shown in full on FOX, and even msnbc has NOT been showing the full clip ANYMORE, other than on olberman's show...

they want a controversy to make the otherwise boring, blow away race, more interesting...that is the media conglomerates, want this, and the repubs just want to deflect away from their own incompetent record in Iraq.imo.

What word did he leave out???

[Prakosh]

Kerry, first of all, had a lower GPA than Bush at the very same school. An attempt to say he was "uneducated" is laughable. That isn't who he was saying was "uneducated" and that is very clear...

This pretense that supposedly somebody that went to Harvard and got a better GPA than Kerry is "uneducated" is silly spin that is so easily shown to be wrong that I can't believe the Dems are falling for it!

:gives:

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Kerry did not even mention the troops, that was Bush!
Kerry also didn't mention Bush.

Aside from that, his comment couldn't have been intended the way he claims he meant it, because Bush had better grades than he did! It doesn't make any sense, unless Kerry is saying he is too smart to be president. I can see how he is really trying hard, but honestly, I don't think he can get dumb enough to be president.

[Damocles]

:gives:
Those who pretend that "Uneducated" somehow meant the man who went to the same college and performed better while there... that's who.

[Jarod]

Bush is the one stuck in Iraq, in a political sense... it was a political speech!

Bush is the only one who dragged the TROOPS into this!

[uscitizen]

Those who pretend that "Uneducated" somehow meant the man who went to the same college and performed better while there... that's who.
And of course membership in groups such as "Skull and bones" does not effect grades at all....

[Damocles]

Bush is the one stuck in Iraq, in a political sense... it was a political speech!

Bush is the only one who dragged the TROOPS into this!

LOL. Rubbish. There is only one group involved that could even remotely be considered to be "uneducated" and it isn't Bush.

You may believe that he is unintelligent, but saying he is "uneducated" is foolish considering the person who gave the speech actually underperformed Bush at the very same college!

Bush could not be considered "uneducated" any more than Kerry can.

[Damocles]

And of course membership in groups such as "Skull and bones" does not effect grades at all....

Of course not. 12 people in a Fraternity cannot effect your grade. This is crazy.

And you should realize that they were BOTH in this same Fraternity.

[Prakosh]

Those who pretend that "Uneducated" somehow meant the man who went to the same college and performed better while there... that's who.

Neither Bush nor Kerry have an IQ that is worth an argument over.
Bush is an idiot and Kerry can't keep his foot out of his mouth. 6 of one, half dozen of the other. In other words, no matter what Kerry said or how you interpret it, both of them are not worthy of the office of president. Unfortunately, in the last presidential election the worst of two bad choices stole the election. And the other decided to let him do it. Fuck 'em both!

[Damocles]

Neither Bush nor Kerry have an IQ that is worth an argument over.
Bush is an idiot and Kerry can't keep his foot out of his mouth. 6 of one, half dozen of the other. In other words, no matter what Kerry said or how you interpret it, both of them are not worthy of the office of president. Unfortunately, in the last presidential election the worst of two bad choices stole the election. And the other decided to let him do it. Fuck 'em both!
I agree. Both of them are not very intelligent. They are, however, both very well educated.

[Prakosh]

I agree. Both of them are not very intelligent. They are, however, both very well educated.

Sound and Fury indicating nothing! In the Ivy League, the big hurdle is gaining admission. After that, who knows what it takes to complete a course of study. They both went to the same school, Yale, and evidently both were popular enough to get into the exclusive Skull and Bones and one made it through the Harvard MBA course, how we don't really know. The other dropped out of divinity school. I don't know if any of this qualifies one to be "very well educated." They got into good schools. We know how Bush did it (white affirmative action); we don't know how Kerry did it.

[Damocles]

Sound and Fury indicating nothing! In the Ivy League, the big hurdle is gaining admission. After that, who knows what it takes to complete a course of study. They both went to the same school, Yale, and evidently both were popular enough to get into the exclusive Skull and Bones and one made it through the Harvard MBA course, how we don't really know. The other dropped out of divinity school. I don't know if any of this qualifies one to be "very well educated." They got into good schools. We know how Bush did it (white affirmative action); we don't know how Kerry did it.
Either way, saying that Bush is uneducated would be saying the same thing as "I am an uneducated buffoon"...

[Jarod]

The inference with his statement "you end up in Iraq" is that he is talking about our troops.

He slipped up. I do not for the life of me believe he was denigrating our troops. I believe he was making an effort to sucker punch the President and his words came out wrong. In boxing terms, he threw a punch at the President and left himself wide open for a tremendous upper cut that made him see stars.

Only a fool would believe that he would be stupid (should I say Bush enough?) enough to say such a thing about our troops.

Immie

YOU ARE CORRECT SIR!

[ManU1959]

who was jfk making fun of if not those stuck in iraq? iraqis? al queda? the taliban? ...... ahhhhhhhhh maybe those that voted to go to iraq before they voted not to go? was he making fun of those people stuck in iraq?

[ManU1959]

LOL. Rubbish. There is only one group involved that could even remotely be considered to be "uneducated" and it isn't Bush.

You may believe that he is unintelligent, but saying he is "uneducated" is foolish considering the person who gave the speech actually underperformed Bush at the very same college!

Bush could not be considered "uneducated" any more than Kerry can.

that isn't true....a lesser educated man would certainly think they were better educated than a man who did better than they....jelousy is a fertile ground for insults

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

He slipped up. I do not for the life of me believe he was denigrating our troops. I believe he was making an effort to sucker punch the President and his words came out wrong. In boxing terms, he threw a punch at the President and left himself wide open for a tremendous upper cut that made him see stars.

Only a fool would believe that he would be stupid (should I say Bush enough?) enough to say such a thing about our troops.

Immie, he did it in 1971 and in 2004, as well. I could give him a pass if he had never said anything disparaging regarding the troops, but that isn't the case with Kerry. Each time, he makes a totally outrageous statement, directly insulting or offensive toward the troops themselves, then when the heat comes, he claims he was talking about the leadership. He did it with the Gingus Kahn statement before Congress, he did it again with the Terrorizing women and children remark, and this is the third time he has publicly made such a statement. No one makes this sort of grievous error three times in a political career without it being intentional.

If you want to believe the he misspoke, you can... here's what I think... John Kerry said exactly what he meant to say, it's precisely how he feels. He is reverting to the old Vietnam era mindset, when we had selective service, and if you didn't get a college deferment, you "got stuck" in Vietnam. It is typical of the liberal elite. John Kerry simply revealed his true colors again, and when the heat came, he bailed as always, with the same old excuse... he was talking about the leaders, not the troops. It has gotten old.

[AnyOldIron]

Immie, he did it in 1971 and in 2004, as well. I could give him a pass if he had never said anything disparaging regarding the troops, but that isn't the case with Kerry. Each time, he makes a totally outrageous statement, directly insulting or offensive toward the troops themselves, then when the heat comes, he claims he was talking about the leadership.

Thing is Dixie, he was right on both occasions...

Atrocities were committed in Vietnam and Iraq...by troops....

Why are you opposing those that highlight such atrocities?

Why did you bang on about SH's atrocities, yet decry anyone who applies the same criteria to your own side?

BTW, these are rhetorical questions, we all know the answer...

[Demwit]

Kerry did not even mention the troops... it was Bush who draged the troops into this!

Neither one of those bozos really care about the troops. It is all about them and what the troops can do for them.

[OrnotBitwise]

Neither one of those bozos really care about the troops. It is all about them and what the troops can do for them.I don't care whether they really care or not. All I care about is what they do. Current emotions -- especially imputed emotions -- are a very bad predictor of future actions where politicians are concerned.

Kerry's joke was, in retrospect, tactically unwise. Okay, bid deal. He's shown a propensity for speaking with too little regard for politcial consequences in the past, so this is nothing new. That tendency may make him a poor politician but, ironically enough, it also probably makes him a better human being.

Don't let the hysteria suck you in. If you look at what he actually said, it was a perfectly reasonable joke. If I were in the position of speaking to a group of high school students today I'd almost certainly say exactly the same thing. Makes a good object lesson: see where you can go if you fuck up?