PDA

View Full Version : Gretatest Sports figures of Alltime



klaatu
07-28-2006, 12:17 PM
imho .. of course

Football (American)

Jim Brown
Otto Graham
Johnny Unitas
Gale Sayers
Dick Buktus
Lawrence Taylor
Joe Montana
Jim Rice
Reggie White
Tom Brady

Baseball

Babe Ruth
Lou Gehrig
Walter Johnson
Ted Williams
Joe Dimaggio
Willie Mays
Hank Aaron
Micky Mantle
Sandy Koufax
Bob Gibson
Roger Clemens
Barry Bonds (reluctantly)
Randy Johnson

Basketball

Wilt Chamberlain
Bill Russell
Oscar Robertson
Jerry West
Kareem Jabbar
Dr. J
Moses Malone
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Shaq
and soon to be Dwane Wade


Boxing

Jim Jeffries
Jack Johnson
Jack Dempsey
Joe Louis
Muhammad Ali
Rocky Marciano
Jim Corbett
Sugar Ray Robinson (WW)
Sugar Ray Leonard (WW)
Roberto Duran (LW)

Damocles
07-28-2006, 12:20 PM
Gotta give a plug for the hometown heroes... John Elway.

klaatu
07-28-2006, 12:22 PM
Gotta give a plug for the hometown heroes... John Elway.


I wont agrue Elway .. not at all ..... greatest finish to a career ..ever !

Cypress
07-28-2006, 12:25 PM
You left out Michael Jordan.

Not only the greatest basketball player ever, but FAR more influential and famous than 99% of the other guys on your list.

klaatu
07-28-2006, 12:29 PM
You left out Michael Jordan.

Not only the greatest basketball player ever, but FAR more influential and famous than 99% of the other guys on your list.


I know.. I wanted to see who would be the first to catch it .... 20 more grind points for you Cypress! :clink:

klaatu
07-28-2006, 12:30 PM
You left out Michael Jordan.

Not only the greatest basketball player ever, but FAR more influential and famous than 99% of the other guys on your list.


But ... Wilt and Bill were pretty influential as well ...

charver
07-28-2006, 12:34 PM
I'd put in the only 3 boxers to win 3 Olympic golds- Teofilo Stevenson (who likely would have won a 4th but for the boycott of LA) and Felix Savon, from Cuba, together with Laszlo Papp from Hungary.

Topspin
07-28-2006, 12:38 PM
Football (American)

Joe Montana
Jim Rice
Jim Brown
Lawrence Taylor
Johnny Unitas
Reggie White
Tom Brady

Baseball

Babe Ruth
Mark Mgwire
Ted Williams
Joe Dimaggio
Hank Aaron
Micky Mantle
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Basketball
Jordon
Bill Russell
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Shaq
Kareem Jabbar
Dr. J
Moses Malone


Boxing
Muhammad Ali
Rocky Marciano
Jack Dempsey
Joe Louis
Ray Mancini
Livingston Bramble
Sugar Ray Robinson (WW)
Sugar Ray Leonard (WW)
Roberto Duran (LW)
__________________

Cypress
07-28-2006, 12:55 PM
But ... Wilt and Bill were pretty influential as well ...

Russel and Chamberlin were surrounded by talent.

Jordan was a one-man show. He carried the Bulls to six championships. The bulls supporting talent was way over rated.

Look at how well the allegedly "awesome" scottie pippen fared, without jordon in the mix.

klaatu
07-28-2006, 01:06 PM
Pete Maravich was another one I missed . ....

Russell had an Allstar team around him.... that much is for sure. Wilt ... in his 2 Championship years.... made the players around him much, much better ....

One of the big myths about Wilt ... many claim his dominance was due to the era that he played in .. because of his height he had a tremendous advantage ..., not true. If it were, these 7ft 7 guys that come around would have a greater height advantage ...and none of them dominate the way Wilt did, dont even come close, not one iota. There were gifted Centers around in his day that stood 6ft 10, 6ft 11, Nate Thurmand and Walt Bellemy come to mind. Wilt was a great athlete ....

DigitalDave
07-28-2006, 01:46 PM
No Jim Thorpe? You gotta have Thorpe in there!

Dixie - In Memoriam
07-28-2006, 07:54 PM
I was thinking the same thing, Dave. Jim Thorpe was a man among boys.

Timshel
07-29-2006, 12:03 AM
Who is Jim Rice? You mean Jerry?

You need an offensive lineman, so Anthony Munoz.

Baseball add NOLAN RYAN (how the hell can you miss that one), Johnny Bench, Pete Rose, Cy Young, Satchel Paige, Jackie Robinson, Ty Cobb.

Boxers Larry Holmes and George Foreman.

klaatu
07-29-2006, 05:20 AM
Who is Jim Rice? You mean Jerry?

You need an offensive lineman, so Anthony Munoz.

Baseball add NOLAN RYAN (how the hell can you miss that one), Johnny Bench, Pete Rose, Cy Young, Satchel Paige, Jackie Robinson, Ty Cobb.

Boxers Larry Holmes and George Foreman.


Damn... , I meant Jerry alright ... good catch....

No argument with Munoz ...


Im glad you brought up Nolan Ryan .. a great Pitcher no doubt.. but I would not include him amongst my alltime top 10.. or maybe even 15. This is why ... now he did something no other Pitcher ever did striking out over 5700 and throwing 7 no hitters.. that alone puts him in the Hall of Fame.
And his longevity was remarkable-- 27 years! But his winning percentage was not impressive... 324-292 with only 2 20 win seasons in which he also lost 16.. You cant blame all of it on Pitching for bad teams.. he pitched for many good teams. Compare him to Tom Seaver who pitched during the same era ... Tom went 311-205 in 20 years with 5 20 win seasons. Or Jim Palmer who went 268-152 in 19 years with 6 season of 20 or more wins.
In my opinion there are several Pitchers from his era that I would rate higher ... Tom Seaver, Jim Palmer, Catfish Hunter, Steve Carlton and Fergie Jenkins. Fergie Jenkins is a real good example of what I am talking about... 7 time 20 game winner, 6 were with a perrenial celler dweller club.

Dixie - In Memoriam
07-29-2006, 05:33 AM
CHUCK NORRIS! ;)

klaatu
07-29-2006, 06:00 AM
CHUCK NORRIS! ;)

lol

Over Bruce Lee?

AnyOldIron
07-29-2006, 07:21 AM
The greatest sportsman in history was Jocky Wilson.

Cypress
07-29-2006, 10:08 AM
Gretatest Sports figures of Alltime

Since the thread title doesn't specify "american" sports, Pele or some other soccer superstars should be in here.

Pele is far more recognizable worldwide than Wilt Chamberlin.

klaatu
07-29-2006, 10:42 AM
Gretatest Sports figures of Alltime

Since the thread title doesn't specify "american" sports, Pele or some other soccer superstars should be in here.

Pele is far more recognizable worldwide than Wilt Chamberlin.

Besides Pele .. go ahead and be my guest.... list them.

I wont because Im not a soccer fan ....

List some NASCAR legends as well ... and how about Tennis?

Bjorn Borg
Jimmy Conners
John Mcenroe

Bowling .... who can forget Don Carter?

Golf ... how about this great International Sport? Was there any greater than the Golden Bear himself?

AnyOldIron
07-29-2006, 11:48 AM
Besides Pele .. go ahead and be my guest.... list them.

George Best, Bobby Moore, Eusibio, Johan Cruyff, Maradona...

Timshel
07-29-2006, 08:18 PM
Bullshit! Ryan was plagued by poor run support throughout his career. In 72 he had a 2.28 era and was 19-16! In 81 he had a 1.69 era and almost half of his games were a loss or no decision! A pitcher cannot be judged objectively on his win-loss record alone because games are one by teams.

Ryan was a fucking specimen and his mechanics were perfection. Anyone who wants to know how to pitch should watch him and possibly no one else.

Timshel
07-29-2006, 08:19 PM
one = won

Damocles
07-29-2006, 10:00 PM
There's this thing called an edit button...

:D

Timshel
07-30-2006, 12:02 AM
There's this thing called an edit button...

:D

Yeah, klaatu should use it to go back and add Ryan. :)

I saw it after the fact.

charver
07-30-2006, 02:15 AM
If anyone was going to add Justin Gatlin, the 100m world record holder, i wouldn't bother anymore.

klaatu
07-30-2006, 06:16 AM
Bullshit! Ryan was plagued by poor run support throughout his career. In 72 he had a 2.28 era and was 19-16! In 81 he had a 1.69 era and almost half of his games were a loss or no decision! A pitcher cannot be judged objectively on his win-loss record alone because games are one by teams.

Ryan was a fucking specimen and his mechanics were perfection. Anyone who wants to know how to pitch should watch him and possibly no one else.

I think you should go back and I read what I said ... I agree that he was a great Hall of Fame Pitcher, no doubt about it! I just wouldnt list him amongst the top 10 or 15 greatest Pitchers. The year you cited was a good example where he did pitch great and was a victim of poor run support. But if you look at the 70's which was a low run scoring era, a Pitcher with an ERA in the high 3's is probably equal to a Pitcher in the high 4's today.. Nolan was in that range quite a bit.
Look at Fergie Jenkins, in 1974 he went 25-12 with 6 shutouts, 22 complete games and 2.8 ERA. His team won a total of 79 games.
In 1972 Steve Carlton went 27-10, 8 shutouts and a 1.92 ERA! His team won a total of 62 games! Now that may be one of the greatest years ever.
Wins dont mean everything but they do mean something.

Timshel
07-30-2006, 09:57 AM
Look at Ryan's win percentage compared against his teams win percentage then do the same for Carlton. They're almost identical. Ryan had a lower winning percentage than his team did 9 out of 25 years, Carlton 9 out of 20 years (in seasons where both apperared at least 20 times).

Wins are very important but you cannot judge a pitcher on them alone. The team behind you makes too much of a difference.

TheDanold
07-31-2006, 07:20 AM
Russel and Chamberlin were surrounded by talent.

Jordan was a one-man show. He carried the Bulls to six championships. The bulls supporting talent was way over rated.

Look at how well the allegedly "awesome" scottie pippen fared, without jordon in the mix.
Ahahahaha, this really shows me you know nothing. Wilt WAS the team, he didn't have the great supporting cast that Russell did with the Celtics.
That changed way later on when Wilt was teamed with Jerry West in the Lakers, but for most of his career, he was the only decent player on his team.


And Jordan could not win it either until Scottie Pippen arrived. He also had the best rebounding help from Dennis Rodman, the best 3-point shooter in Steve Kerr, not to mention possibly the greatest coach in Phil Jackson.
PLENTY of talent on the bulls championship teams.

Dixie - In Memoriam
07-31-2006, 07:31 AM
List some NASCAR legends as well ...

Richard Petty
Dale Earnhardt
Bobby Allison
Bill Elliott
Jeff Gordon

Damocles
07-31-2006, 07:42 AM
Don't forget the Bullriders...

Lane Frost
Tuff Hedeman
Warren Brown

charver
07-31-2006, 12:18 PM
No list could ever be complete without the presence of the living legends of the darts world -

Phil 'The Power' Taylor
&
'The Crafty Cockney' Eric Bristow

Two more finely honed athletes you could not hope to meet.

klaatu
07-31-2006, 03:28 PM
No list could ever be complete without the presence of the living legends of the darts world -

Phil 'The Power' Taylor
&
'The Crafty Cockney' Eric Bristow

Two more finely honed athletes you could not hope to meet.


And ..still searching for Bobby Fisher ....

klaatu
07-31-2006, 03:41 PM
Look at Ryan's win percentage compared against his teams win percentage then do the same for Carlton. They're almost identical. Ryan had a lower winning percentage than his team did 9 out of 25 years, Carlton 9 out of 20 years (in seasons where both apperared at least 20 times).

Wins are very important but you cannot judge a pitcher on them alone. The team behind you makes too much of a difference.


Lets look at it this way ....

If I were to rate the Pitchers of Nolan Ryans era ... he may not even break my top 5 ... seriously ...

The Pitchers I have already listed ...
Tom Seaver
Steve carlton
Fergie Jenkins
Catfish Hunter
Jim Palmer
Would all rate ahead... thats in my book .....

Now what about after Nolans era ...?

Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Greg Maddox

imho ... Rate ahead ......


Before Nolan?

Bob Gibson
Sandy Koufax
Juan Marichal
Warren Spahn
Walter Johnson
Grover Alexander


Just to name a few ..... so that gives me 15 Pitchers that logically I could rate over Ryan.

Timshel
07-31-2006, 08:45 PM
Johnson and Martinez? No way! Maddux and Clemens, you could maybe make an argument. Johnson is easily rattled and has always been inconsistent. Of his era I would let Fergie and Seaver slide but none of the others.

I believe you mentioned Koufax in your original list and many make the comparison between the two, as Ryan broke many of his records and both were power pitchers.

Back on his win-loss record, in 87 Ryan lead the league with an ERA of 2.76 and strikeouts 270 at the age of 40. His record, 8-16. There is absolutely no doubt that he was plagued with crappy run support. His postseason performances were all solid but again he got screwed by his offense.

His last pitch, thrown with a torn ligament, was clocked at 98 miles an hour.

Nolan Ryan was the man. Tell me one guy that was more amazing to watch.

Some of Ryan's records

Most strikeouts, lifetime: 5714
Longest service: 27 years
Most no-hitters, career: 7
Most strikeouts, season: 383 (AL, 1973)
Most seasons, 200+ strikeouts: 15
Most seasons, 300+ strikeouts: 6
Most consecutive strikeouts, game: 8
Most low-hit (0/1 hit) games, career: 16
Most low-hit (0/1 hit) games, season: 3 (1973)
Most seasons leading majors, walks: 8
Most strikouts per 9 innings, season: 11.48
Most strikouts per 9 innings, career: 9.57 (as of 1990)
Fewest hits allowed per 9 innings, season: 5.26 (1972)
Fewest hits allowed per 9 innings, career: 6.41 (as of 1990)
Oldest to pitch a no-hitter: 44 (5/1/91)
Fastest pitch (as listed in the Guiness Book Of World Records): 101.9 MPH

klaatu
07-31-2006, 09:18 PM
Interesting about the 101.9 mph ... The Yankees Kyle Farnsworth was measured at 101 just yesterday ....

Johnson is easily rattled and has always been inconsistent? Maybe now at the ripe old age of 42 .. and early in his career just as Ryan was ... but come on .. the guy is a 5 time CY Young award winner! And was phenominal in the 2001 World Series against the Yankees. In 3 WS games he posted a 1.04 ERA! How many CY Youngs has Ryan won? (I know the answer)
Johnson also has a lifetime winning pct of .659 and an ERA of 3.11.
Ryan? .526 and 3.19
Again .. I think Ryan was great..and I really dont like shooting him down.. I just think there were quite a few who were greater.


As far as Koufax... he had a very short career ... his greatness was over a 6 year span ... his last 4 years he posted 25, 19, 26 and 27 wins with ERA's of 1.8,1.7, 2.0 and 1.7. He retired because he wanted to.. Imagine that..retiring after winning 27 games a 1.7 ERA and a World Series! lol!

Timshel
07-31-2006, 10:24 PM
No, he never won the CY. But look at his stats http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_Ryan#Legacy. There are several CY worthy years except for the win-loss records. 72-74, 77 and 87 were all solid, CY worthy years. However, all of those teams were sub .500 and Ryan did not get support. 81 was another solid year but short.

Yes, Johnson is easily rattled. He throws fits on the mound and has breakdowns all the time.

Again Ryan's postseason starts were all solid, but he got poor support.

Wins are accomplished by teams, not by pitchers alone. And Ryan's best years were spent with lousy teams.

Now I am not saying he was better than Koufax. But Koufax had some great teams around him too. Koufax pitched 12 years but, like Ryan he struggled early in his career.

LadyT
08-01-2006, 10:31 AM
Takeru Kobayashi - One of the greatest men of our time. A moment of silence to bask in his greatness please.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=2100385

dlescook
08-01-2006, 10:53 PM
Randy Johnson?

LMAO....really, and especially if you include him while leaving a pitcher like Cy Young or even Nolan Ryan off the list.

klaatu
08-02-2006, 08:33 AM
Randy Johnson?

LMAO....really, and especially if you include him while leaving a pitcher like Cy Young or even Nolan Ryan off the list.

Well tell me why ... Why do you think its funny and why a 5 time winner of the CY Young Award does not belong on the list ....? And ...one who has never won the award ....(Best Pitcher) does belong ....

Har Har Har Har !!!!!

klaatu
08-02-2006, 08:42 AM
No, he never won the CY. But look at his stats http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_Ryan#Legacy. Yes, Johnson is easily rattled. He throws fits on the mound and has breakdowns all the time.

Again Ryan's postseason starts were all solid, but he got poor support.

.


perceptions ... I gave you the reasons and statistics demonstrating that this is not true. In the 2001 World Series against the Yankees, In 3 WS games he posted a 1.04 ERA

klaatu
08-02-2006, 08:51 AM
Actually ... I forgot Mariano Rivera .. how can I forget the great one! Even Eck says he is the greatest ....

Timshel
08-05-2006, 02:42 AM
perceptions ... I gave you the reasons and statistics demonstrating that this is not true. In the 2001 World Series against the Yankees, In 3 WS games he posted a 1.04 ERA


None of that demonstrates that the comments I made and you quoted were untrue.

Every year I mentioned Ryan had CY worthy numbers but he was on losing teams. Many of those years he was among the top votes anyway.

Johnson's numbers in three games does not disprove the fact that he often gets rattled.

Many of Ryan's postseason losses are considered some of the epic duels (i.e., though he pitched masterfully he got no run support) in postseason history.

zoombwaz
08-06-2006, 10:27 PM
Gotta give a plug for the hometown heroes... John Elway.

I'll second that.

Beefy
08-06-2006, 10:59 PM
Elway is not only a good quarterback, but the biggest car salesman in greater Denver. Shit, you can't even live in Thornton or Broomfield without coming across his ads and billboards selling cars all over the place.

Damocles
08-06-2006, 11:01 PM
Elway is not only a good quarterback, but the biggest car salesman in greater Denver. Shit, you can't even live in Thornton or Broomfield without coming across his ads and billboards selling cars all over the place.
He sold all those places to Huizenga and contracts to them so they can use his name... So, the guy who used to own the Marlins now owns John Elway's car lots and pays John Elway to be in those ads... He got a TON of cash for them. Pretty much what he sold the Marlins for after winning the WS...

Beefy
08-06-2006, 11:08 PM
He sold all those places to Huizenga and contracts to them so they can use his name... So, the guy who used to own the Marlins now owns John Elway's car lots and pays John Elway to be in those ads... He got a TON of cash for them. Pretty much what he sold the Marlins for after winning the WS...

Either way, Elway made me a crap offer on my truck. With all his dough, you'd think he'd give me a decent offer. Freaking capitalists.

Damocles
08-06-2006, 11:09 PM
Either way, Elway made me a crap offer on my truck. With all his dough, you'd think he'd give me a decent offer. Freaking capitalists.
He should be giving them away. I mean, doesn't the poor man need a leg up? Don't they DESERVE the truck?

Beefy
08-06-2006, 11:24 PM
He should be giving them away. I mean, doesn't the poor man need a leg up? Don't they DESERVE the truck?


I wanted thirty grand. He offered me twenty seven hundred. He's a jerk. Damn I miss thornton.

OrnotBitwise
08-07-2006, 10:03 AM
Susan Butcher. There was one great competitor.

RIP

:(

klaatu
08-07-2006, 10:57 AM
Mark Spitz ? Possibly the greatest swimmer ever .... seven gold medals and seven world records!!!

Beefy
08-07-2006, 08:20 PM
Floyd Landis?