Pelosi: Golden Rule Should Apply to Terrorists!

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

“This is a time when the Golden Rule really should be in affect. Do not do unto others, what you would not have them do unto your troops, your CIA agents, your people in the field."

This is Nancy Pelosi's response to the proposed bill on how we handle captured terrorists. Aside from being a gross misquote of the Golden Rule, and ignoring the improper double-negative presentation, the implication of applying the Golden Rule to terrorists, is chilling. Is this part of the Democrats plan to fight terror? To utilize the Golden Rule? Does this idiotic bitch realize what she is saying? Does she think for one second, that alQaeda is going to obey the Golden Rule? Does she think our implementation of the Golden Rule, as foreign policy, is going to win us any favors from radical Islamofascists?

I want all of you who are not koolaid drinking pinhead democrats, who are currently disgruntled with republicans and contemplating how to vote, to please consider this... If the Democrats win the House, Nancy Pelosi will be third in line for the Presidency... if they manage to pick off Bush and Cheney's heart malfunctions, this woman is running the show in the war on terror! YIKES!

[maineman]

folks in the military know that if you waterboard detainees today, you are saying to all our enemies in the future that it is perfectly acceptable to waterboard American POWs then. Cowardly yellow blooded chickenhawks do not understand that and, quite frankly, don't really care because they know it will never be them that has to be submerged under water until nearly drowned.

folks in the military know that if you expose detainees to extreme hypothermia today, you are saying to all our enemies in the future that it is perfectly acceptable to expose American POWs to extreme hypothermia then. Cowardly yellow blooded chickenhawks do not understand that and, quite frankly, don't really care because they know it will never be them that has to be stuck in the freezer until their body temperature drops to the point where things stop working.

folks in the military know that if you deprive detainees of sleep for days and weeks on end today, you are saying to all our enemies in the future that it is perfectly acceptable to deprive American boys of sleep for days on end tomorrow. Cowardly yellow blooded chickenhawks do not understand that and, quite frankly, don't really care because they know it will never be them that is kept awake with pokes and prods and screams for days and weeks on end.

Why am I not surprised that the most cowardly chickenhawk of them all is making light of this?

Dixie: you are despicable.

[uscitizen]

For true Christians the golden rule applies to everyone.
I don't recall reading about exceptions.

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

So you agree with Nancy Pelosi?

[Gaffer]

poloski just wants to forgive and forget.

That is a typical misquoting of a bible verse.

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

poloski just wants to forgive and forget.

That is a typical misquoting of a bible verse.


The Golden Rule doesn't appear in the Bible. I think it is from ancient Jewish law, and is generally associated with religious teaching... which is probably why Pelosi didn't have a clue of how to properly quote it.

This person will be third in line for the presidency, if the Democrats win control of the House. That should alarm just about anyone with any competence at all. I'm not the biggest fan of voting "against" something, I prefer to vote "for" something, but this might be a valid exception. Anyone who thinks we should apply the Golden Rule in fighting the War on Terror, is dangerous and extremely scary to me.

[Care4all]

Matthew 7:12 (Amplified Bible)

12So then, whatever you desire that others would do to and for you, even so do also to and for them, for this is (sums up) the Law and the Prophets.

[Care4all]

Matthew 7:12 (King James Version)


12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

[Jarod]

Dixie, you dont belive in the golden rule!

[Cypress]

Letter from intelligence and interogation experts at CIA, and DOD:

United States Senate
Committee on the Judiciary
224 Dirksen Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510

The Honorable Arlen Specter, Chairman
The Honorable Patrick J. Leahy, Ranking Democratic Member

Dear Senators:

We write as experienced intelligence and military officers who have served in the frontlines in waging war against communism and Islamic extremism. We fully support the need for proactive operations to identify and disrupt those individuals and organizations who wish to harm our country or its people. We also recognize that intelligence operations, unlike law enforcement initiatives, enjoy more flexibility and less scrutiny, but at the same time must continue to be guided by applicable US law.

We are very concerned that the proposals now before the Congress, concerning how to handle detainees suspected of terrorist activities, run the risk of squandering the greatest resource our country enjoys in fighting the dictators and extremists who want to destroy us—our commitment as a nation to the rule of law and the protection of divinely granted human rights.

Apart from the moral considerations, we believe it is important that the Congress send a clear message that torture is not an effective or useful tactic.

As noted recently by the head of Army Intelligence, Lt. Gen. John Kimmons:

No good intelligence is going to come from abusive practices. I think history tells us that. I think the empirical evidence of the last five years, hard years, tells us that.

Our nation was created in response to the abuses visited on our ancestors by the King of England, who claimed the right to enter their homes, to levy taxes at whim, and to jail those perceived as a threat without allowing them to be confronted by their accusers. Now, 230 years later, we find our own President claiming the right to put people in detention centers without legal recourse and to employ interrogation methods that, by any reasonable legal standard, are categorized as torture.

We ask that the Senate lead the way in upholding the principles set forth in the Declaration of Independence and affirmed in the Geneva Conventions regarding the rights of individuals and the obligations of governing authorities towards those in their power. We believe it is important to combat the hatred and vitriol espoused by Islamic extremists, but not at the expense of being viewed as a nation who justifies or excuses torture and incarceration without recourse to a judicial procedure.

The US has been in the forefront of the human rights campaign throughout the 20th century, led by Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson. The end of World War II and the horrors of the Holocaust inspired the United States to take the lead in making the case that human rights were universal, not parochial. Until recently the policy of our country was that all people, not just citizens of the United States, were entitled to these protections. It is important that the world understand that we remain committed to these principles. In fighting our enemies we must wage this battle in harmony with the traditional values of our society that were enshrined in the opening clause of the Declaration of Independence, "We hold these truths to be self-evident...."

Respectfully yours,

*CIA Officers:
Milton Bearden, Directorate of Operations
Ray Close, Directorate of Operations
Vincent Cannistraro, Directorate of Operations
Philip Giraldi, Directorate of Operations
James Marcinkowski, Directorate of Operations
Melissa Mahle, Directorate of Operations
Paul Pillar, Directorate of Intelligence
David MacMichael, Directorate of Intelligence
Melvin Goodman, Directorate of Intelligence
Ray McGovern, Directorate of Intelligence
Mary O. McCarthy, DCI professional staff

*US Military and Department of Defense:
W. Patrick Lang, (Colonel, US Army retired, Director Defense Humint Services, retired)
A. D. Ackels, (Colonel, US Army, retired)
Karen Kwiatkowski, (Lt. Colonel, USAF, retired)

*US Department of State:
Thomas R. Maertens, Deputy Coordinator, Office of Counter Terrorism, US Department of State
Larry C Johnson, Office of Counter Terrorism, US Department of State

*Federal Bureau of Investigation:
Christopher Whitcomb, Hostage Rescue Team

[Jarod]

Dixie does not belive the Golden Rule is associated with Christianity!

[Damocles]

The Golden Rule doesn't appear in the Bible. I think it is from ancient Jewish law, and is generally associated with religious teaching... which is probably why Pelosi didn't have a clue of how to properly quote it.

This person will be third in line for the presidency, if the Democrats win control of the House. That should alarm just about anyone with any competence at all. I'm not the biggest fan of voting "against" something, I prefer to vote "for" something, but this might be a valid exception. Anyone who thinks we should apply the Golden Rule in fighting the War on Terror, is dangerous and extremely scary to me.
Um... Matthew 7.12

"Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them."

Also see:

Leviticus 19.18

You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Which was quoted later by Christ in Matthew 22.36-40.

[Jarod]

Dont point out his lack of knoledge, or any mistakes he makes... He'll ignore you!

[IHateGovernment]

What Nancy said is the silver rule actually. The golden rule is about what you actively do. The silver about what you refrain from doing.

I live by both sayings. I personally wouldn't make an exception for terrorists.

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Um... Matthew 7.12

"Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them."

Also see:

Leviticus 19.18

You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Which was quoted later by Christ in Matthew 22.36-40.

Uhm... the actual "Golden Rule" is: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Those words do not appear in the Bible. I agree, the Golden Rule is taught in the Bible, and generally associated with the Bible, but it doesn't actually come from the Bible. That was my point, sorry for the confusion.

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

No good intelligence is going to come from abusive practices.

Well, we know now for a fact, several terror plots were foiled because of the interrogation of KSM and his associates. Apparently, this General wasn't in the loop.

[Jarod]

Uhm... the actual "Golden Rule" is: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Those words do not appear in the Bible. I agree, the Golden Rule is taught in the Bible, and generally associated with the Bible, but it doesn't actually come from the Bible. That was my point, sorry for the confusion.


Tap dance alert!

[Damocles]

Uhm... the actual "Golden Rule" is: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Those words do not appear in the Bible. I agree, the Golden Rule is taught in the Bible, and generally associated with the Bible, but it doesn't actually come from the Bible. That was my point, sorry for the confusion.
Read that same verse, the first one I posted, in the King James version and tell me what it says there, Dix.

[Care4all]

The golden Rule: http://www.religioustolerance.org/reciproc.htm

Quotation:
"Every religion emphasizes human improvement, love, respect for others, sharing other people's suffering. On these lines every religion had more or less the same viewpoint and the same goal." The Dalai Lama



Overview
Religious groups differ greatly in their concepts of deity, other beliefs and practices. Non-theistic ethical and philosophic systems, like Humanism and Ethical Culture, also exhibit a wide range of beliefs. But there is near unanimity of opinion among almost all religions, ethical systems and philosophies that each person should treat others in a decent manner. Almost all of these groups have passages in their holy texts, or writings of their leaders, which promote this Ethic of Reciprocity. The most commonly known version in North America is the Golden Rule of Christianity. It is often expressed as "Do onto others as you would wish them do onto you."

One result of this Ethic is the concept that every person shares certain inherent human rights, simply because of their membership in the human race. People are individually very different; they come in two main genders; different sizes, colors, and shapes; many races; three sexual orientations; and different degrees of ability. They follow many religious and economic systems, speak many languages, and follow many different cultures. But there is a growing consensus that all humans are equal in importance. All should enjoy basic human rights. The United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) is one manifestation of this growing worldwide consensus. 1,2

In our opinion, the greatest failure of organized religion is its historical inability to convince their followers that the Ethic of Reciprocity applies to all humans, not merely to fellow believers. It is our belief that religions should stress that their membership use their Ethic of reciprocity when dealing with persons of other religions, the other gender, other races, other sexual orientations, etc. Only when this is accomplished will religiously-related oppression, mass murder and genocide cease.



Some "Ethic of Reciprocity" passages from the religious texts of various religions and secular beliefs:
Bahá'Ã* World Faith: "Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee, and say not that which thou doest not." "Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself." Baha'u'llah
"And if thine eyes be turned towards justice, choose thou for thy neighbour that which thou choosest for thyself." Epistle to the Son of the Wolf

Brahmanism: "This is the sum of Dharma [duty]: Do naught unto others which would cause you pain if done to you". Mahabharata, 5:1517 "
Buddhism: "...a state that is not pleasing or delightful to me, how could I inflict that upon another?" Samyutta NIkaya v. 353
Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful." Udana-Varga 5:18

Christianity: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." Matthew 7:12, King James Version.
"And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise." Luke 6:31, King James Version.
"...and don't do what you hate...", Gospel of Thomas 6. The Gospel of Thomas is one of about 40 gospels that were widely accepted among early Christians, but which never made it into the Christian Scriptures (New Testament).

Confucianism: "Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you" Analects 15:23
"Tse-kung asked, 'Is there one word that can serve as a principle of conduct for life?' Confucius replied, 'It is the word 'shu' -- reciprocity. Do not impose on others what you yourself do not desire.'" Doctrine of the Mean 13.3
"Try your best to treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, and you will find that this is the shortest way to benevolence." Mencius VII.A.4

Ancient Egyptian: "Do for one who may do for you, that you may cause him thus to do." The Tale of the Eloquent Peasant, 109 - 110 Translated by R.B. Parkinson. The original dates to 1970 to 1640 BCE and may be the earliest version ever written. 3

Hinduism: This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you. Mahabharata 5:1517

Humanism: "(5) Humanists acknowledge human interdependence, the need for mutual respect and the kinship of all humanity."
"(11) Humanists affirm that individual and social problems can only be resolved by means of human reason, intelligent effort, critical thinking joined with compassion and a spirit of empathy for all living beings. " 4
"Don't do things you wouldn't want to have done to you, British Humanist Society. 3

Islam: "None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself." Number 13 of Imam "Al-Nawawi's Forty Hadiths." 5
Jainism: "Therefore, neither does he [a sage] cause violence to others nor does he make others do so." Acarangasutra 5.101-2.
"In happiness and suffering, in joy and grief, we should regard all creatures as we regard our own self." Lord Mahavira, 24th Tirthankara
"A man should wander about treating all creatures as he himself would be treated. "Sutrakritanga 1.11.33

Judaism: "...thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.", Leviticus 19:18
"What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man. This is the law: all the rest is commentary." Talmud, Shabbat 31a.
"And what you hate, do not do to any one." Tobit 4:15 6

Native American Spirituality: "Respect for all life is the foundation." The Great Law of Peace.
"All things are our relatives; what we do to everything, we do to ourselves. All is really One." Black Elk
"Do not wrong or hate your neighbor. For it is not he who you wrong, but yourself." Pima proverb.

Roman Pagan Religion: "The law imprinted on the hearts of all men is to love the members of society as themselves."
Shinto: "The heart of the person before you is a mirror. See there your own form"
"Be charitable to all beings, love is the representative of God." Ko-ji-ki Hachiman Kasuga

Sikhism: Compassion-mercy and religion are the support of the entire world". Japji Sahib
"Don't create enmity with anyone as God is within everyone." Guru Arjan Devji 259
"No one is my enemy, none a stranger and everyone is my friend." Guru Arjan Dev : AG 1299

Sufism: "The basis of Sufism is consideration of the hearts and feelings of others. If you haven't the will to gladden someone's heart, then at least beware lest you hurt someone's heart, for on our path, no sin exists but this." Dr. Javad Nurbakhsh, Master of the Nimatullahi Sufi Order.
Taoism: "Regard your neighbor's gain as your own gain, and your neighbor's loss as your own loss." T'ai Shang Kan Ying P'ien.
"The sage has no interest of his own, but takes the interests of the people as his own. He is kind to the kind; he is also kind to the unkind: for Virtue is kind. He is faithful to the faithful; he is also faithful to the unfaithful: for Virtue is faithful." Tao Teh Ching, Chapter 49

Unitarian: "We affirm and promote respect for the interdependent of all existence of which we are a part." Unitarian principles.
Wicca: "An it harm no one, do what thou wilt" (i.e. do what ever you will, as long as it harms nobody, including yourself). One's will is to be carefully thought out in advance of action. This is called the Wiccan Rede
Yoruba: (Nigeria): "One going to take a pointed stick to pinch a baby bird should first try it on himself to feel how it hurts."
Zoroastrianism: "That nature alone is good which refrains from doing unto another whatsoever is not good for itself". Dadistan-i-dinik 94:5
"Whatever is disagreeable to yourself do not do unto others." Shayast-na-Shayast 13:29




Some philosophers' statements are:
Epictetus: "What you would avoid suffering yourself, seek not to impose on others." (circa 100 CE)
Kant: "Act as if the maxim of thy action were to become by thy will a universal law of nature."
Plato: "May I do to others as I would that they should do unto me." (Greece; 4th century BCE)
Socrates: "Do not do to others that which would anger you if others did it to you." (Greece; 5th century BCE)
Seneca: "Treat your inferiors as you would be treated by your superiors," Epistle 47:11 (Rome; 1st century CE)

[Jarod]

So according to Dixie, Its not against the bible to commit murder... because the bible only says... "thou shalt not kill" - it does not say anything about murder!

[uscitizen]

And that one scripture that goes something like. Father forgive them for they know not what they do.......

[maineman]

No good intelligence is going to come from abusive practices.

Well, we know now for a fact, several terror plots were foiled because of the interrogation of KSM and his associates. Apparently, this General wasn't in the loop.


but Dixie was?????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Cypress]

but Dixie was?????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Dixie knows more than the Army's Chief of Intelligence.

[maineman]

of course he does....if you doubt that, just ask him. DIxie is the smartest motherfucker he has ever met. ROFL

[uscitizen]

Just a living legend in his own mind :)

[Jarod]

He thinks a thimble of degraded Seirn is a WMD and the Golden Rule aint in the Bible but comes from old Jewish teachings!

[uscitizen]

Umm old jewish teachings are in the bible used by christians and Christ was a Jew.

[OrnotBitwise]

Maybe Dixie needs to go to Jesus Camp. :)

Well, shoot. Here I was hoping to add something cutting and pithy to this thread and y'all have beaten me to the punch. Shuckydarns!

[maineman]

Matthew 22: 37-40

One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?" "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

what we tell the world is that the way we treat detainees is how we feel we should be treated when detained by THEM.

Only chickenhawks who will not put themselves in danger of being treated thusly would want to tell the world to treat American boys in such a manner.

[Prakosh]

I agree, the Golden Rule is taught in the Bible, and generally associated with the Bible, but it doesn't actually come from the Bible. That was my point, sorry for the confusion.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Clear as mud! So where dear Dixie, he of the headwrap, does this rule "actually come from????"

[IHateGovernment]

An equivalent of the golden rule exists in almost every major religion.

[Cypress]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Clear as mud! So where dear Dixie, he of the headwrap, does this rule "actually come from????"

You must recall, that's dixie's interpretation of the bible is...ahem...somewhat flexible and original.

IN a debate on Alambam's (only recently) overturned law banning interracial mariage On fp.com, Dixie searched for bibilical references to justify why whites should not marry blacks.

[uscitizen]

But Dixie is of course not prejudiced now is he ;)

[uscitizen]

dixie lives by the "do unto others before they do it to you " rule.
As passed down to him by his assiholiness.

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Read that same verse, the first one I posted, in the King James version and tell me what it says there, Dix.


Damo, I understand that it says essentially the same thing as the Golden Rule. I thought I made that clear in my clarification, I am not saying the Golden Rule is not taught in the Bible, it certainly is. Had I posted, that Nancy Pelosi misquoted from the Bible, how long do you think it would have taken some pinhead, to point out that the actual Golden Rule is not found in the text of the Bible? I made a simple statement of fact, the commonly known verse, 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you' is not in the Bible, and didn't originate from the Bible. You can post all kinds of verses from the Bible which are similar, but you will not find those exact words in the Bible, because they are not there.

[maineman]

I wonder if Dixie ever bothered to consider that HIS "version" of the Golden Rule might, itself, be a misquoted Bible verse? Does Dixie really think that HIS "version" of the Golden Rule predates the Bible?

[Prakosh]

I wonder if Dixie ever bothered to consider that HIS "version" of the Golden Rule might, itself, be a misquoted Bible verse? Does Dixie really think that HIS "version" of the Golden Rule predates the Bible?

Yes evidently he does, you see those who were inspired by God to write the Golden Rule down, come to work hung over that morning, I think there was a fatted calf event the night before, and in their somewhat inhibited state, just plain got it wrong. I know its hard to believe but the Bible is just plain wrong about the Golden Rule. My only question is if they got this wrong, what else did they get wrong....

[uscitizen]

now that is a whole nother aurgume...err thread Prakosh ;)

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

So, us... you never answered me... do you agree with Pelosi, that the Golden Rule should apply to terrorists? Oh yeah, that's right, you are ignoring me... any of you pinheads want to go on record supporting Pelosi on this?

[maineman]

you never answered ME...how can your english language version of the golden rule predate the bible?

[maineman]

I DID answer you.... why don't you answer me?


folks in the military know that if you waterboard detainees today, you are saying to all our enemies in the future that it is perfectly acceptable to waterboard American POWs then. Cowardly yellow blooded chickenhawks do not understand that and, quite frankly, don't really care because they know it will never be them that has to be submerged under water until nearly drowned.

folks in the military know that if you expose detainees to extreme hypothermia today, you are saying to all our enemies in the future that it is perfectly acceptable to expose American POWs to extreme hypothermia then. Cowardly yellow blooded chickenhawks do not understand that and, quite frankly, don't really care because they know it will never be them that has to be stuck in the freezer until their body temperature drops to the point where things stop working.

folks in the military know that if you deprive detainees of sleep for days and weeks on end today, you are saying to all our enemies in the future that it is perfectly acceptable to deprive American boys of sleep for days on end tomorrow. Cowardly yellow blooded chickenhawks do not understand that and, quite frankly, don't really care because they know it will never be them that is kept awake with pokes and prods and screams for days and weeks on end.

Why am I not surprised that the most cowardly chickenhawk of them all is making light of this?

Dixie: you are despicable.

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Let me also add this, because I know that some of the morons I have blocked have probably tried to make the case for why we should invoke the Golden Rule on terrorists...

A popular argument (McCain) for strict adherence to the Geneva Conventions, is that we want to do this to insure the humane treatment of our own soldiers who are captured in the future. This would be valid if America fought wars with countries who respected the Geneva Conventions, but we don't, never have, and probably never will. We don't obey the Geneva Conventions because we anticipate our enemies will reciprocate, we do this because we are a civilized and humane society who believes in treating people humanely. Any expectations that our actions will buy us goodwill from our future enemies is ludicrous. It simply doesn't matter how we treat captured enemies, whether they are treated according to the GC or not, our enemies in the future will not respect the GC, with regard to the treatment of our soldiers. If you are ignorant and naive enough to believe that it will make any difference, you are an absolute idiot.

[maineman]

Would Jesus preach that anyone was not bound by or worthy of the Golden Rule?

[maineman]

Oh...Dixie.... you have quoted me before on this site... We know that you aren't really "ignoring" me...you just know that I have destroyed you in every debate we have ever had and you are hiding behind the "ignore" story as a dodge to avoid getting your ass handed to you repeatedly on this site like you did on the previous two.

[maineman]

Let me also add this, because I know that some of the morons I have blocked have probably tried to make the case for why we should invoke the Golden Rule on terrorists...

A popular argument (McCain) for strict adherence to the Geneva Conventions, is that we want to do this to insure the humane treatment of our own soldiers who are captured in the future. This would be valid if America fought wars with countries who respected the Geneva Conventions, but we don't, never have, and probably never will. We don't obey the Geneva Conventions because we anticipate our enemies will reciprocate, we do this because we are a civilized and humane society who believes in treating people humanely. Any expectations that our actions will buy us goodwill from our future enemies is ludicrous. It simply doesn't matter how we treat captured enemies, whether they are treated according to the GC or not, our enemies in the future will not respect the GC, with regard to the treatment of our soldiers. If you are ignorant and naive enough to believe that it will make any difference, you are an absolute idiot.

poll question: if you had to pick which person would be classifed as an absolute idiot, would it be:

A. Senator John McCain
B. Dixie

[Jarod]

Now he is argueing with what he thinks we are saying!!!

ROTFLMAO...

I have not had a better laugh on this cite... Today has been the best yet!

[Jarod]

Oh...Dixie.... you have quoted me before on this site... We know that you aren't really "ignoring" me...you just know that I have destroyed you in every debate we have ever had and you are hiding behind the "ignore" story as a dodge to avoid getting your ass handed to you repeatedly on this site like you did on the previous two.


You see, for him to pretend he is ignoring us... is perfect for him, he does not have to respond.

He just sets up a paper argument then tears it down! That way noone will ever point out he is wrong. Typical Republican Bush supporter!

[Prakosh]

you never answered ME...how can your english language version of the golden rule predate the bible?

I actually like the idea that it just does, and we should accept that it does. Then you have a much greater problem about the veracity of the Bible in general. If these scribes couldn't get something simple like the Golden Rule right, and according to Dixie they couldn't, then how much of that Book can we believe...

I'm really with Dixie on this one...right down the line...
"the Golden Rule is taught in the Bible, and generally associated with the Bible, but it doesn't actually come from the Bible." They just got it wrong...it's really that simple...God is not infallable and the Bible isn't accurate...

[IHateGovernment]

I agree with the general premise of what Pelosi said. We probably differ on the exact implications of that but I agree with the general principle.

Dixie is right that we can't honestly expect groups like Al-Queda to respect our soldiers rights. However I also know that if we engage in things like torture or other degrading acts we are going to anger the world community. One benefit that our nation has in the war on terror is the ability to claim the high ground.

We lost some of that credibility when we invaded Iraq which regardless of your own opinion is something that is generally condemned by most of the world community especially in the arab/muslim world. Engaging in torture will further turn world opinion against us.

The war on terror is not just a war of bombs and bullets but of ideology and convincing the world that we are a force of good and our enemies a force of evil. When we engage in behavior that is viewed as stooping down to their level we turn more and more people against us and some of those people we will have alienated so much that they will take up arms against us. You can argue with me all you want about how such a perception is wrong. Ultimately it doesn't matter if you convince me you have to convince the young muslim man who hears about the evil USA and how it is committing barbaric acts upon his Muslim brothers and decides to pick up an AK or a bomb belt and kill our soldiers.

For every terrorist that is killed it is a small victory in the war on terror. But it is also a small victory when a person sees the United States positively and turns away from terrorism and even supports our side.

Torturing prisoners doesn't aid us in the second realm.

If however this question is not about principle for you but rather pragmatics ask yourself this: Is the information we gain from torturing prisoners worth the likely increase in anti-American sentiment that will lead to even more terrorism?

I don't think so.

[FUCK THE POLICE]

“This is a time when the Golden Rule really should be in affect. Do not do unto others, what you would not have them do unto your troops, your CIA agents, your people in the field."

This is Nancy Pelosi's response to the proposed bill on how we handle captured terrorists. Aside from being a gross misquote of the Golden Rule, and ignoring the improper double-negative presentation, the implication of applying the Golden Rule to terrorists, is chilling. Is this part of the Democrats plan to fight terror? To utilize the Golden Rule? Does this idiotic bitch realize what she is saying? Does she think for one second, that alQaeda is going to obey the Golden Rule? Does she think our implementation of the Golden Rule, as foreign policy, is going to win us any favors from radical Islamofascists?

I want all of you who are not koolaid drinking pinhead democrats, who are currently disgruntled with republicans and contemplating how to vote, to please consider this... If the Democrats win the House, Nancy Pelosi will be third in line for the Presidency... if they manage to pick off Bush and Cheney's heart malfunctions, this woman is running the show in the war on terror! YIKES!


You are your bunch have done too much to destroy America already. What president in our history has brought us so much hate, and threatened our national security so much because of useless hatred, and destroyed so much in 6 fucking years?

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

LOL.... Why is it so fucking important to you idiots, what France and Germany think of us? Why is it so important to cow-tow to the UN and Europe? What the fuck have any of them EVER done, to create such a great sucking noise at their assholes?

You guys are pathetic, you care more about whether the French like us, than actually taking measures to protect the lives of American citizens and soldiers. If we have a captured alQaeda operative who knows information about a planned terror attack, I want our CIA to use every means necessary to extrapolate that information from them, and I don't really give a flying fuck if Kofi Anan is okay with it!

[IHateGovernment]

LOL.... Why is it so fucking important to you idiots, what France and Germany think of us? Why is it so important to cow-tow to the UN and Europe? What the fuck have any of them EVER done, to create such a great sucking noise at their assholes?

Because most of this debate has been about interpretation of the Golden Rule I will assume this is directed toward me and my concern about world perception. When I wrote that response I didn't even think of the UN or France or Germany. I don't really care to much what they think at least not relatively. Why do you bring up France and Germany I didn't mention them and no one else did either. The only person who brought up world opinion was me and argued that it was relevant in preventing people from wanting to do harm to our nation. This is more relevant with nations that would be terrorists would come from not from France or Germany. How did you get such an idea?

You guys are pathetic, you care more about whether the French like us, than actually taking measures to protect the lives of American citizens and soldiers. If we have a captured alQaeda operative who knows information about a planned terror attack, I want our CIA to use every means necessary to extrapolate that information from them, and I don't really give a flying fuck if Kofi Anan is okay with it!

Come on Dixie you must have skimmed my post and not read the details I guess. This is straw man.

Read my post and get back to me with your critiques. At this point your railing against something nobody here has said.

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

LOL.... Why is it so fucking important to you idiots, what France and Germany think of us? Why is it so important to cow-tow to the UN and Europe? What the fuck have any of them EVER done, to create such a great sucking noise at their assholes?

Because most of this debate has been about interpretation of the Golden Rule I will assume this is directed toward me and my concern about world perception. When I wrote that response I didn't even think of the UN or France or Germany. I don't really care to much what they think at least not relatively. Why do you bring up France and Germany I didn't mention them and no one else did either. The only person who brought up world opinion was me and argued that it was relevant in preventing people from wanting to do harm to our nation. This is more relevant with nations that would be terrorists would come from not from France or Germany. How did you get such an idea?

You guys are pathetic, you care more about whether the French like us, than actually taking measures to protect the lives of American citizens and soldiers. If we have a captured alQaeda operative who knows information about a planned terror attack, I want our CIA to use every means necessary to extrapolate that information from them, and I don't really give a flying fuck if Kofi Anan is okay with it!

Come on Dixie you must have skimmed my post and not read the details I guess. This is straw man.

Read my post and get back to me with your critiques. At this point your railing against something nobody here has said.

True, most of this thread was hijacked by liberal pinheads who'd rather obsess on some trivial detail and try to detract from the topic of the thread, but I was indeed addressing your concerns about other nations perceptions of us. I assumed you were talking about people we trade with, people we deal with, people we work with on a regular basis in NATO or the UN. What I said, applies even more to less friendly countries... I REALLY don't give a fuck what pleases THEM!

Anti-western, anti-US, anti-Israel countries, didn't like us long before the War on Terror, and they won't like us during or after it, and there isn't a damn thing we can do to change that, and it doesn't matter if we could. Our goals and objectives are not centered around getting countries to like us, who have traditionally hated us. For some unknown reason, certain people think, if we could just show them what nice guys we are, they wouldn't hate us... that is silly and foolish to believe, and even more ridiculous to try and build US foreign policy around.

Our objective should be to take actions to protect our own interests, regardless of what other nations (friendly or not) think of it. Does Syria or Iran give one flying fuck what we think of their actions? Do they give a shit about what we think of them? Do you believe ANYTHING we could do, would suddenly change their perception of us? ...I mean, besides all of us dying and America dropping off the face of the planet? Let's be real here, we aren't dealing with some liberal social group, who needs our understanding and sympathy... We are not conducting an outreach ministry to radicals who want to slit our throats! They attacked us and declared war upon our nation, and we should be doing whatever the hell we need to do, to win the war, and eliminate these people from power on the world stage. We shouldn't concern ourselves in the least, what Armagedongoneinsane thinks about it!

[Prakosh]

True, most of this thread was hijacked by liberal pinheads who'd rather obsess on some trivial detail and try to detract from the topic of the thread, but I was indeed addressing your concerns about other nations perceptions of us. I assumed you were talking about people we trade with, people we deal with, people we work with on a regular basis in NATO or the UN. What I said, applies even more to less friendly countries... I REALLY don't give a fuck what pleases THEM!

Anti-western, anti-US, anti-Israel countries, didn't like us long before the War on Terror, and they won't like us during or after it, and there isn't a damn thing we can do to change that, and it doesn't matter if we could. Our goals and objectives are not centered around getting countries to like us, who have traditionally hated us. For some unknown reason, certain people think, if we could just show them what nice guys we are, they wouldn't hate us... that is silly and foolish to believe, and even more ridiculous to try and build US foreign policy around.

Our objective should be to take actions to protect our own interests, regardless of what other nations (friendly or not) think of it. Does Syria or Iran give one flying fuck what we think of their actions? Do they give a shit about what we think of them? Do you believe ANYTHING we could do, would suddenly change their perception of us? ...I mean, besides all of us dying and America dropping off the face of the planet? Let's be real here, we aren't dealing with some liberal social group, who needs our understanding and sympathy... We are not conducting an outreach ministry to radicals who want to slit our throats! They attacked us and declared war upon our nation, and we should be doing whatever the hell we need to do, to win the war, and eliminate these people from power on the world stage. We shouldn't concern ourselves in the least, what Armagedongoneinsane thinks about it!


The Kool-Aid is kicking in!!!!

[maineman]

poll question: if you had to pick which person would be classifed as an absolute idiot, would it be:

A. Senator John McCain
B. Dixie


I am going with Dixie.

I think that John McCain, a victim of torture, has a much more informed perspective than a redneck racist coward who avoided serving his country.

[Jarod]

I'll never forget this!

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Um... Matthew 7.12

"Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them."

Also see:

Leviticus 19.18

You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Which was quoted later by Christ in Matthew 22.36-40.

One of the few parts of the bible I agree with.

However, the vast majority of the bible absolutely contradicts such notions.

[Good Luck]

There is no valid excuse for mistreatment of POWs. Torture has been proven time and again to be an unreliable method for obtaining information. Hurt a person enough they will say anything to please their questioners whether it is true or not.

If the goal is retribution rather than information, try them as spies under war conditions (terrorists do not advertise themselves by wearing any identifiable markings) convict them under military tribunal, and hang them. Torture is still not justifiable.

Many times in war, U.S. POWs have been poorly treated by our enemies. That is still not reason to mistreat our prisoners. We treat our prisoners correctly because we are not barbarians. (Conversely, if we do not treat our POWs correctly, we ARE barbarians.)

[FUCK THE POLICE]

There is no valid excuse for mistreatment of POWs. Torture has been proven time and again to be an unreliable method for obtaining information. Hurt a person enough they will say anything to please their questioners whether it is true or not.

If the goal is retribution rather than information, try them as spies under war conditions (terrorists do not advertise themselves by wearing any identifiable markings) convict them under military tribunal, and hang them. Torture is still not justifiable.

Many times in war, U.S. POWs have been poorly treated by our enemies. That is still not reason to mistreat our prisoners. We treat our prisoners correctly because we are not barbarians. (Conversely, if we do not treat our POWs correctly, we ARE barbarians.)

We are not barbarians.

That's what the Japanese told the Americans before the Bataan death march...

[NOVA]

folks in the military know that if you waterboard detainees today, you are saying to all our enemies in the future that it is perfectly acceptable to waterboard American POWs then. Cowardly yellow blooded chickenhawks do not understand that and, quite frankly, don't really care because they know it will never be them that has to be submerged under water until nearly drowned.

folks in the military know that if you expose detainees to extreme hypothermia today, you are saying to all our enemies in the future that it is perfectly acceptable to expose American POWs to extreme hypothermia then. Cowardly yellow blooded chickenhawks do not understand that and, quite frankly, don't really care because they know it will never be them that has to be stuck in the freezer until their body temperature drops to the point where things stop working.

folks in the military know that if you deprive detainees of sleep for days and weeks on end today, you are saying to all our enemies in the future that it is perfectly acceptable to deprive American boys of sleep for days on end tomorrow. Cowardly yellow blooded chickenhawks do not understand that and, quite frankly, don't really care because they know it will never be them that is kept awake with pokes and prods and screams for days and weeks on end.

Why am I not surprised that the most cowardly chickenhawk of them all is making light of this?

Dixie: you are despicable.

Yeah...got your point O' Ye of Soft and Mushy Brains....loud and clear...

After viewing the videos of

Danny Pearl
Eugene Armstrong
Paul Johnson
etc.

I have come to a somewhat different conclusion on the treatment of captured terrorists....actually, why they are even 'captured' in the first place is an oddity to began with....

Actually...Anyone that will trust an Islamic extremest is obviously a fool at the start....
....It is you that is despicable....as most anti-Americans are

[Good Luck]

We are not barbarians.

That's what the Japanese told the Americans before the Bataan death march...
I would prefer if we were not barbarians. Most U.S. citizens are not, I am certain of that. I would even go so far as to say our current leaders are not barbarians.

But our current leadership seems to believe the only way to defeat barbarians is by ACTING like barbarians. They are wrong. If one acts like a barbarian, what is it that makes one different from the real barbarians?

[NOVA]

I would prefer if we were not barbarians. Most U.S. citizens are not, I am certain of that. I would even go so far as to say our current leaders are not barbarians.

But our current leadership seems to believe the only way to defeat barbarians is by ACTING like barbarians. They are wrong. If one acts like a barbarian, what is it that makes one different from the real barbarians?

No ... we are not barbarians...but if your only concept of war is Mash and Hogan's Heros....you better get a clue on reality and have a serious talk with a vet....
there is no 'nice' way to kill your enemy....there is no 'nice' way to kill. period.

[FUCK THE POLICE]

No ... we are not barbarians...but if your only concept of war is Mash and Hogan's Heros....you better get a clue on reality and have a serious talk with a vet....
there is no 'nice' way to kill your enemy....there is no 'nice' way to kill. period.

Yeah shooting them quickly in the heart is just as bad as drawing and quartering. Good equivalency there.

[Good Luck]

No ... we are not barbarians...but if your only concept of war is Mash and Hogan's Heros....you better get a clue on reality and have a serious talk with a vet....
there is no 'nice' way to kill your enemy....there is no 'nice' way to kill. period.
After three tours in Viet Nam, I think I have a handle on what war means. I have a hell of lot better grasp on warfare than those whose experience is limited to Halo II.

Like I said, if we want to KILL captured terrorists, then hold a military tribunal and do it right.

There is still no excuse for mistreating POWs. Barbarians mistreat their prisoners. Civilized nations treat them humanely and return them to their homes when the conflict is over.