The Twisted Logic of the Jewish ‘Historic Right’ to Israel

[kudzu]

The Twisted Logic of the Jewish ‘Historic Right’ to Israel

Our political culture insists on seeing the Jews as the direct descendants of the ancient Hebrews. But the Jews never existed as a ‘people’ – still less as a nation.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/the-twisted-logic-of-the-jewish-historic-right-to-israel-1.6654428?utm_source=Push_Notification&utm_medium=web_push&utm_campaign=General

I enjoy the vacillations of Chaim Gans, even if I don’t always understand them. I have the highest esteem for his intellectual honesty – even if at times, perhaps like everyone, he tries to resolve contradictions with lame arguments.

However, before going into the heart of the matter, I must pause over an annoying mistake – I’m certain that at bottom it’s not deliberately misleading but a folly – concerning my writings. In the article, “From rabid Zionism to egalitarian Zionism” (November 9), Gans writes, “because, according to [Sand], there is purportedly no genetic continuity between ancient and modern Jewry, it follows that the Jewish nationhood engendered by Zionism is a total fabrication, a nationhood created out of thin air.”

If my assumption that Gans has perused my books is correct, he appears to have read them both too quickly and at a diagonal. Since the publication of my first book "The invention of the Jewish people" a decade ago, I have made a point of emphasizing that it’s not only Jews who don’t possess a common DNA – neither do all other human groups that claim to be peoples or nations – besides which I have never thought that genetics can confer national rights.

For example, the French are not the direct descendants of the Gauls, just as the Germans are not the offspring of the Teutons or of the ancient Aryans, even if until a little more than half a century ago many idiots believed just that.

[kudzu]

One trait that all peoples have in common is that they are retroactive inventions with no distinctive genetic "traits." The acute problem that genuinely disturbs me is that I live in a singular political and pedagogical culture that continues persistently to see the Jews as the direct descendants of the ancient Hebrews.

The founding myth of Zionism – which proceeds in an unbroken line from Max Nordau and Arthur Ruppin, to worrisome geneticists in several Israeli universities and at Yeshiva University in New York – acts as the principal ideological glue for the nation’s everlasting unity, and today more than ever. The justification for Zionist settlement/colonization (choose your preferred term – they mean the same thing) is the meta-paradigm that is expressed in the declaration of the establishment of the state, namely: “We were here, we were uprooted, we came back.”

Full disclosure: Even when I believed, mistakenly, that the “Jewish people” was exiled by the Romans in 70 C.E. or 132 C.E., I didn’t think that this conferred on the Jews some sort of imagined “historic right” to the Holy Land. If we seek to organize the world as it was 2,000 years ago, we will turn it into one big madhouse.

Why not bring Native Americans back to Manhattan, for example, or restore the Arabs to Spain and the Serbs to Kosovo? Of course, such twisted logic of “historic right” will also commit us to supporting the continued settlement/colonization of Hebron, Jericho and Bethlehem.


As I pursued my research, my realization that the Exodus from Egypt never happened and that the inhabitants of the Kingdom of Judah were not exiled by the Romans, left me nonplussed. There is not one study by a historian who specializes in antiquity that recounts that “exile” or any serious historiographic study that reconstructs a mass migration from the place. The “exile” is a formative event that never took place, otherwise it would be the subject of dozens of research studies.

Judahite farmers, who constituted an absolute majority of the population at the first century C.E., were not seafarers like the Greeks or the Phoenicians, and did not spread across the world. It was Jahwist monotheism, which since the Hasmonean era had become a dynamic religion engaged in conversion, which laid the foundations for the Jews’ age-old existence around the globe.

Here’s where we get to the heart of Gans’ arguments. This distinguished jurist and political theorist is not prepared to accept the standard justifications for settlement and for Zionism’s conception of land ownership since the end of the 19th century.

He is well aware that such popular propositions would oblige him to justify continuation of the present-day settlement project, and perhaps also to deny the rights of the natives who still remain in "the land of Israel.”

Gans even knows that there never actually was a Jewish nation, which is why he resorts to the literal image of a “profile” – a surprising and original term in the national context – wholly based on ignorance.

For him to understand what Clermont-Tonnerre meant in his famous speech (a subject I addressed in an article in the Haaretz Hebrew edition last August), a perusal of Wikipedia would have sufficed. He’d have learned immediately that by “nation,” the French liberal was referring to a closed, insular religious community. Did the Jews, in contrast, not see themselves as a people or a nation according to the modern usage of these terms?

continued

[kudzu]

Until the modern era, the terms “people” or “nations” were used in a variety of senses.

In the Bible, Moses goes down to the people and speaks with them directly (without a loudspeaker, newspapers, television or Twitter). The people also gathers to welcome Joshua and to congratulate him on his victories.

In the Middle Ages the Christians viewed themselves as “people of God,” a term in wide use for hundreds of years. In our time, the terms “people” or “nations” are applied in a different way, albeit not always accurately.

A “people” is, generally, a human community living within a defined territory, whose members speak a common language and maintain a secular culture with the same, or similar, foundations. “Nation,” on the other hand, is a term that is today generally applied to a people that claims sovereignty over itself or has already achieved it.

I don’t think peoples existed before the modern era – that possibility would have been ruled out by the level of communication they had.

There were large clans, tribes, powerful kingdoms, large principalities, religious communities and other groups with various forms of political and social bonds – usually loose ones. In an age when few people could read and write, when each village had a different dialect and the lexicon was appallingly meager, it’s hard to talk about a people with a shared consciousness. Minorities of educated literates do not yet constitute nations, even if they have sometimes created that impression.

I don’t understand why all cats have to be called cats and all the dogs, dogs – and only one cat has to be called a dog. The Jews, like the Christians, Muslims or the followers of the Bahá'í Faith, had in common a strong belief in God alongside diverse and closely linked religious practices.

However, a Jew from Kiev could not converse with a Jew from Marrakesh, didn’t sing the songs of the Yemeni Jew and didn’t eat the same foods as the Falash Mura, or Beta Israel, community of Ethiopia. The whole fabric of day-to-day secular life was completely different in each community. Accordingly, to this day – and rightly so – the only way to join the “Jewish people” is through an act of religious conversion.

[Grugore]

God said it was theirs. That's good enough for me. You can rant and rave all you like. It won't change anything.

[Jack]

What about the Canaanites? Aren't they the rightful owners of the Land? (I'm guessing the Palestinians are the Canaanites)
Aren't they all just Semitic People and the only difference is their religious preference?

[Jack]

God said it was theirs. That's good enough for me. You can rant and rave all you like. It won't change anything.

ISIS? You sound like one of the Soldiers of ISIS. Wasn't Moses the Leader of some kind of ISIS movement? Claiming Territory and killing everybody in their way?

[Mason Michaels]

What about the Canaanites? Aren't they the rightful owners of the Land? (I'm guessing the Palestinians are the Canaanites)
Aren't they all just Semitic People and the only difference is their religious preference?

The rightful owner is YHWH,and he gave the Holy Land to his chosen people he chose to reveal his story thru the Jews!

[Jack]

The rightful owner is YHWH,and he gave the Holy Land to his chosen people he chose to reveal his story thru the Jews!

WOW!

I think that's what the Leader of ISIS said. Well, except YHWH said "The Muslims".

"Why was it right for God to slaughter women and children in the Old Testament? How can that ever be right?
It's right for God to slaughter women and children anytime he pleases. God gives life and he takes life. Everybody who dies, dies because God wills that they die."
https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/what-made-it-okay-for-god-to-kill-women-and-children-in-the-old-testament

See, it's all good.

[kudzu]

What about the Canaanites? Aren't they the rightful owners of the Land? (I'm guessing the Palestinians are the Canaanites)
Aren't they all just Semitic People and the only difference is their religious preference?

The Hebrews borrowed alot of their religion from the North Coast Canaanites.. (the Ugarit) namely Psalms and several of the Canaanite Pantheon of gods.

[kudzu]

The rightful owner is YHWH,and he gave the Holy Land to his chosen people he chose to reveal his story thru the Jews!

Probably not because the Hebrews borrowed all the aspects of their religion from Babylon, Egypt and the North Coast Canaanites.

[Jack]

The Hebrews borrowed alot of their religion from the North Coast Canaanites.. (the Ugarit) namely Psalms and several of the Canaanite Pantheon of gods.

Probably from the Babylonians too.

[Jack]

Probably not because the Hebrews borrowed all the aspects of their religion from Babylon, Egypt and the North Coast Canaanites.

uh-oh. I guess I should have read the next post before I replied. :(

[kudzu]

uh-oh. I guess I should have read the next post before I replied. :(

The sources of Jewish beliefs is very interesting..

[Jack]

The sources of Jewish beliefs is very interesting..

Each Cult has an interesting History. I always liked Zeus and the many stories of the Gods of Olympus. Course, I like the Sun Gods. I think the Sun God was the most popular, from a world-wide basis.
"Sun-Day" ... I always like that.

[Adolf_Twitler]

Israel just needs to know to stay in their lane and stop encroaching on the West Bank and Jerusalem and other territories that are not theirs.

But, No! They can't seen to control themselves.

[Jack]

Israel just needs to know to stay in their lane and stop encroaching on the West Bank and Jerusalem and other territories that are not theirs.

But, No! They can't seen to control themselves.

Hey, the Americans could have stopped at the Mississippi River, ... but, why?

[Adolf_Twitler]

Hey, the Americans could have stopped at the Mississippi River, ... but, why?

Because we bought our land! We paid the wrong people though- we should have paid the Indians for it!

[kudzu]

Hey, the Americans could have stopped at the Mississippi River, ... but, why?

Why stop? They have been flush with US foreign aid since 1948.

[jimmymccready]

Greater Israel and the one-state solution will be in force by 2025.

[Mason Michaels]

WOW!

I think that's what the Leader of ISIS said. Well, except YHWH said "The Muslims".

"Why was it right for God to slaughter women and children in the Old Testament? How can that ever be right?
It's right for God to slaughter women and children anytime he pleases. God gives life and he takes life. Everybody who dies, dies because God wills that they die."
https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/what-made-it-okay-for-god-to-kill-women-and-children-in-the-old-testament

See, it's all good.

Take it up with YHWH,or the Angel of Death!

[Mason Michaels]

The Hebrews borrowed alot of their religion from the North Coast Canaanites.. (the Ugarit) namely Psalms and several of the Canaanite Pantheon of gods.

Not relevant to the discussion

[Mason Michaels]

Greater Israel and the one-state solution will be in force by 2025.

Never happen

[Mason Michaels]

Why stop? They have been flush with US foreign aid since 1948.

Israel should put their trust in YHWH,not USA

[kudzu]

Israel should put their trust in YHWH,not USA

LOLOL.. :laugh:


They don't trust the USA or God.

[Mason Michaels]

LOLOL.. :laugh:


They don't trust the USA or God.

Not trusting USA,smart.Not trusting YHWH,has not
worked out so well the last 6000 years

[kudzu]

Take it up with YHWH,or the Angel of Death!

Are you a fundamentalist?

[Jack]

Take it up with YHWH,or the Angel of Death!

"YHWH is Great". Everybody has a 'YHWH', and he is GREAT. Funny how this YHWH guy likes/wants to kill everybody else. I'm not that religious, but it sounds like a pretty good political device. You know, get the local rubes amped up to go kill their Brothers and Sisters. That's usually hard to do. But with YHWH, and of course, HIS EARTHLY INTERPRETER, it's not that difficult.

Ever hear about the Catholics killing the Protestants, and the Protestants killing the Catholics? Loved that. Can't do that kind of shit without YHWH.

[kudzu]

"YHWH is Great". Everybody has a 'YHWH', and he is GREAT. Funny how this YHWH guy likes/wants to kill everybody else. I'm not that religious, but it sounds like a pretty good political device. You know, get the local rubes amped up to go kill their Brothers and Sisters. That's usually hard to do. But with YHWH, and of course, HIS EARTHLY INTERPRETER, it's not that difficult.

Ever hear about the Catholics killing the Protestants, and the Protestants killing the Catholics? Loved that. Can't do that kind of shit without YHWH.

You really hit the nail on the head.

[jimmymccready]

. . . which has nothing to do, kiddos, with Greater Israel happening in the next seven years.

[Old Trapper]

Because we bought our land! We paid the wrong people though- we should have paid the Indians for it!

We "bought" the SE United States (Louisiana Purchase), we captured Texas (Mexican War Cessation Agreement), we bought some of the SW (Gadsden Purchase), we bought Alaska (Sewards Folly), we bought Manhattan Island from the Indians. What other land did we "buy"?

[Old Trapper]

. . . which has nothing to do, kiddos, with Greater Israel happening in the next seven years.

"Greater Israel" is a political hoax just as setting up Jerusalem as the capital was.

[Mason Michaels]

Are you a fundamentalist?

AM i,I AM's,AM I

[Mason Michaels]

"Greater Israel" is a political hoax just as setting up Jerusalem as the capital was.

Trump making Jerusalem capital,was illegal,can Israel make Holy Toledo,capital of the USA?

[Mason Michaels]

"YHWH is Great". Everybody has a 'YHWH', and he is GREAT. Funny how this YHWH guy likes/wants to kill everybody else. I'm not that religious, but it sounds like a pretty good political device. You know, get the local rubes amped up to go kill their Brothers and Sisters. That's usually hard to do. But with YHWH, and of course, HIS EARTHLY INTERPRETER, it's not that difficult.

Ever hear about the Catholics killing the Protestants, and the Protestants killing the Catholics? Loved that. Can't do that kind of shit without YHWH.

Thanks for explaining why mankind needs salvation.

[Jack]

Thanks for explaining why mankind needs salvation.

Salvation ... FROM YHWH. Yes, I agree. The sooner we all become/and realize, we are all Brothers and Sisters, the Better.

[Minister of Truth]

If I have to pick between the Jews or the fucking Muslims having control of the Holy Land, it's really not a difficult choice.

[Minister of Truth]

"YHWH is Great". Everybody has a 'YHWH', and he is GREAT. Funny how this YHWH guy likes/wants to kill everybody else. I'm not that religious, but it sounds like a pretty good political device. You know, get the local rubes amped up to go kill their Brothers and Sisters. That's usually hard to do. But with YHWH, and of course, HIS EARTHLY INTERPRETER, it's not that difficult.

Ever hear about the Catholics killing the Protestants, and the Protestants killing the Catholics? Loved that. Can't do that kind of shit without YHWH.

Tell that to all of the godless Marxists who spent much of the 20th Century on a massive killing spree.

[Jack]

Tell that to all of the godless Marxists who spent much of the 20th Century on a massive killing spree.

I prefer to mention this to the Righteous, the ones that March with God, those that Know the Word, lLive the Word. You know, the ones that preach Love ... and if you don't agree with them ... they will kill you.

[kudzu]

I prefer to mention this to the Righteous, the ones that March with God, those that Know the Word, lLive the Word. You know, the ones that preach Love ... and if you don't agree with them ... they will kill you.

Like "Gott mit uns"?

[kudzu]

"Greater Israel" is a political hoax just as setting up Jerusalem as the capital was.

The Bible contains three geographical definitions of the Land of Israel. The first, found in Genesis 15:18–21, seems to define the land that was given to all of the children of Abraham, including Ishmael, Zimran, Jokshan, Midian, etc. It describes a large territory...

[Jack]

Like "Gott mit uns"?

I try to broadcast to the rubes, the minions, the Followers, ... the 'Leaders' know EXACTLY what they are doing. Without the Drones, there won't be any 'Followers' for the Leaders.

[Jack]

The Bible contains three geographical definitions of the Land of Israel. The first, found in Genesis 15:18–21, seems to define the land that was given to all of the children of Abraham, including Ishmael, Zimran, Jokshan, Midian, etc. It describes a large territory...

I was unaware that 'God' was in the business of handing out Land Titles? (Any chance this is a political trick?)

[jimmymccready]

Those who oppose Greater Israel are fantasy freaks with dragons for friends.

Greater Israel is inevitable.

[kudzu]

I was unaware that 'God' was in the business of handing out Land Titles? (Any chance this is a political trick?)

Yeah. God and Real Estate Magnate.

[Mason Michaels]

I prefer to mention this to the Righteous, the ones that March with God, those that Know the Word, lLive the Word. You know, the ones that preach Love ... and if you don't agree with them ... they will kill you.

Oh,Republican fake evangelicals

[countryboy]

The Twisted Logic of the Jewish ‘Historic Right’ to Israel

Our political culture insists on seeing the Jews as the direct descendants of the ancient Hebrews. But the Jews never existed as a ‘people’ – still less as a nation.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/the-twisted-logic-of-the-jewish-historic-right-to-israel-1.6654428?utm_source=Push_Notification&utm_medium=web_push&utm_campaign=General

I enjoy the vacillations of Chaim Gans, even if I don’t always understand them. I have the highest esteem for his intellectual honesty – even if at times, perhaps like everyone, he tries to resolve contradictions with lame arguments.

However, before going into the heart of the matter, I must pause over an annoying mistake – I’m certain that at bottom it’s not deliberately misleading but a folly – concerning my writings. In the article, “From rabid Zionism to egalitarian Zionism” (November 9), Gans writes, “because, according to [Sand], there is purportedly no genetic continuity between ancient and modern Jewry, it follows that the Jewish nationhood engendered by Zionism is a total fabrication, a nationhood created out of thin air.”

If my assumption that Gans has perused my books is correct, he appears to have read them both too quickly and at a diagonal. Since the publication of my first book "The invention of the Jewish people" a decade ago, I have made a point of emphasizing that it’s not only Jews who don’t possess a common DNA – neither do all other human groups that claim to be peoples or nations – besides which I have never thought that genetics can confer national rights.

For example, the French are not the direct descendants of the Gauls, just as the Germans are not the offspring of the Teutons or of the ancient Aryans, even if until a little more than half a century ago many idiots believed just that.

That's a verbose way of telling us how much you hate Teh Joos. You could've saved a lot of time and just said, SIEG HEIL!

[PostmodernProphet]

Our political culture insists on seeing the Jews as the direct descendants of the ancient Hebrews. But the Jews never existed as a ‘people’ – still less as a nation..

obviously there was never an Israel.......just like there were no crusades or Roman Empire......people need to rewrite their history books......

[PostmodernProphet]

The Hebrews borrowed alot of their religion from the North Coast Canaanites.. (the Ugarit) namely Psalms and several of the Canaanite Pantheon of gods.

don't be silly......there weren't any Hebrews.........its all a Muslim myth......

[PostmodernProphet]

The sources of Jewish beliefs is very interesting..

agreed.......his name was YHWH.......

[kudzu]

That's a verbose way of telling us how much you hate Teh Joos. You could've saved a lot of time and just said, SIEG HEIL!

I don't hate Jews at all. I don't like what the Zionists have done in Palestine in the name of what they know to be fiction and mythos.... bit of religion borrowed from Babylon, North Coast Canaanites and Egypt.

In America we justified slavery by misunderstanding the Flood Myth and the curse on Ham.

[PostmodernProphet]

In America we justified slavery by misunderstanding the Flood Myth and the curse on Ham.

odd....I don't recall this country justifying slavery at all......are you sure you don't have us confused with a few dozen slave owners?.......

[kudzu]

odd....I don't recall this country justifying slavery at all......are you sure you don't have us confused with a few dozen slave owners?.......

Slavery was perfectly acceptable in the US until the Civil War.

[PostmodernProphet]

Slavery was perfectly acceptable in the US until the Civil War.

abolitionists say you are full of shit....

[kudzu]

abolitionists say you are full of shit....

The host of human trafficking and forced labor colloquially called “slavery” in the modern usage could be said to have lasted approximately 373 years. That number varies according to different usages of the word.

Slavery, referring only to the transatlantic slave trade and its primary effects, began with the arrival of Christopher Columbus to the New World in 1492 and ended with the conclusion of the American Civil War in 1865.

Upon his arrival in what he believed to be the East Indies, Columbus noted that the indigenous population would make fine slaves and began to ship them to Spain. The shipment of African slaves to the Americas began in the early 1500s. The first African slaves arrived in what would later become the United States in 1619.

[kudzu]

Christians traditionally believed that Canaan had settled in Africa. The dark skin of Africans became associated with this "curse of Ham." Thus slavery of Africans became religiously justifiable.

It was common for “good” Christians to use biblical quotations to substantiate their claim to morality. One argument used by southerners was that “God cursed Ham, and therefore American slavery is right”

[Marquezine]

You have said it, it is just for this one of the reasons why I doubt the religions. While one believes in good and evil, because it really exists among ourselves. How can you believe in a God who is capable of killing while at the same time propagating his goodness? Is not that what politicians do?

[iolo]

If I have to pick between the Jews or the fucking Muslims having control of the Holy Land, it's really not a difficult choice. The Zionists are hardly Jews except in religious belief, which most of them only pretend to hold nowadays - the origins of most of them, if you look into it, are in the Khazar Kingdom - and the most likely origins of the Palestinian people would include those who held the Jewish religion in Old Testament times. These fatuous combinations of pretend religion and ill-informed racism are about what has given rise to trumpism and all the lunacies that go with it.

[Minister of Truth]

The Zionists are hardly Jews except in religious belief, which most of them only pretend to hold nowadays - the origins of most of them, if you look into it, are in the Khazar Kingdom - and the most likely origins of the Palestinian people would include those who held the Jewish religion in Old Testament times. These fatuous combinations of pretend religion and ill-informed racism are about what has given rise to trumpism and all the lunacies that go with it.

In America, most Jews are not religious. Not sure what sort of Jews that you have encountered in Taffyland.

[iolo]

In America, most Jews are not religious. Not sure what sort of Jews that you have encountered in Taffyland.

Well, over in naziland you include everyone who claims or doesn't claim to be Jewish as a Zionist. Here we tend to make normal distinctions. Goebbels.

[PostmodernProphet]

The host of human trafficking and forced labor colloquially called “slavery” in the modern usage could be said to have lasted approximately 373 years. That number varies according to different usages of the word.

Slavery, referring only to the transatlantic slave trade and its primary effects, began with the arrival of Christopher Columbus to the New World in 1492 and ended with the conclusion of the American Civil War in 1865.

Upon his arrival in what he believed to be the East Indies, Columbus noted that the indigenous population would make fine slaves and began to ship them to Spain. The shipment of African slaves to the Americas began in the early 1500s. The first African slaves arrived in what would later become the United States in 1619.

irrelevant to your ignorant statement.....

[kudzu]

irrelevant to your ignorant statement.....


“slavery” in the modern usage could be said to have lasted approximately 373 years.

[PostmodernProphet]

It was common for “good” Christians to use biblical quotations to substantiate their claim to morality. One argument used by southerners was that “God cursed Ham, and therefore American slavery is right”

no .....it was common for people who bought and sold other human beings to try to justify their actions........far more of them were "good" god-haters than good Christians.....

[PostmodernProphet]

You have said it, it is just for this one of the reasons why I doubt the religions.

that is the precise reason she and other god-haters spread their lies.....

[kudzu]

no .....it was common for people who bought and sold other human beings to try to justify their actions........far more of them were "good" god-haters than good Christians.....

You are simply ignorant of history..

[PostmodernProphet]

“slavery” in the modern usage could be said to have lasted approximately 373 years.

still irrelevant to the claim of "perfectly acceptable".....

[PostmodernProphet]

You are simply ignorant of history..

dude, you are ignorant of everything.....

[Minister of Truth]

Well, over in naziland you include everyone who claims or doesn't claim to be Jewish as a Zionist. Here we tend to make normal distinctions. Goebbels.

I'm sure you'll get to meet Goebbels someday.

[iolo]

I'm sure you'll get to meet Goebbels someday.

And, there you are then. Hitler only had one ball, but he had you beat! :)

[kudzu]

still irrelevant to the claim of "perfectly acceptable".....

Shem: biblical figure, Noah's son - Amazing Bible Timeline ...
amazingbibletimeline.com/blog/biblical-figure-shem
Shem. Shem is the ancestor or Abram or Abraham. He lived a total of six hundred years. This is charted in the Biblical Timeline from 2448 BC – 1848 BC.It is calculated that Shem lived until Abram was one hundred and fifty years old.

PART THREE: THE LINEAGE OF SHEM - Bible Believers
www.biblebelievers.org.au/nation03.htm
TABLE 3. THE LINEAGE OF SHEM, THE FATHER OF ALL THE SEMITIC RACES. (49) Elam. The founder of the Elamites, which people were known to the Babylonians as the Elamtu, to the Greeks as Elymais, and whom the Romans knew as Elymaei.

[PostmodernProphet]

Shem: biblical figure, Noah's son - Amazing Bible Timeline ...
amazingbibletimeline.com/blog/biblical-figure-shem
Shem. Shem is the ancestor or Abram or Abraham. He lived a total of six hundred years. This is charted in the Biblical Timeline from 2448 BC – 1848 BC.It is calculated that Shem lived until Abram was one hundred and fifty years old.

PART THREE: THE LINEAGE OF SHEM - Bible Believers
www.biblebelievers.org.au/nation03.htm
TABLE 3. THE LINEAGE OF SHEM, THE FATHER OF ALL THE SEMITIC RACES. (49) Elam. The founder of the Elamites, which people were known to the Babylonians as the Elamtu, to the Greeks as Elymais, and whom the Romans knew as Elymaei.

did you notice that the claim was based on the writings of Josephus rather than the Bible?......

[kudzu]

did you notice that the claim was based on the writings of Josephus rather than the Bible?......

Josephus didn't write Genesis.

[PostmodernProphet]

Josephus didn't write Genesis.

so you concede the bible doesn't say shem was a black man.....

[Truth Detector]

Are the Jews not the original Palestinians? Why is it that the Jew hating liberal left sides with terrorists and anti-Semitic fools?

Why is it problematic that the most persecuted people on the planet should be begrudged this tiny almost worthless piece of land that comprises not much more than 1% of the land mass in the Middle East?

Israel became a nation as a result of the mass execution by Nazi Germany and Russian purges. Surely they can be left alone on this tiny strip of land. What is wrong with you people?

[Truth Detector]

Why stop? They have been flush with US foreign aid since 1948.

And the Palestinians have not? STFU you anti-Semitic moron.

[Truth Detector]

Greater Israel and the one-state solution will be in force by 2025.

Wrong again asshat; do you ever get tired of being wrong all the time? That was rhetorical of course.

[Truth Detector]

Trump making Jerusalem capital,was illegal,can Israel make Holy Toledo,capital of the USA?

Trump didn't make Jerusalem the capital you low IQ dullard.

:smh:

[kudzu]

And the Palestinians have not? STFU you anti-Semitic moron.

You can't compare billions to millions.

[kudzu]

http://i.imgur.com/A9HYF6N.jpg

[Truth Detector]

You can't compare billions to millions.

Moron:

Bilateral assistance to the Palestinians since 1994 has totaled more than $5 billion, and has been a key part of U.S. policy to encourage an Israeli-Palestinian peace process, improve life for West Bank and Gaza residents, and (since 2007) strengthen the West Bank based PA vis-à-vis Hamas in Gaza. U.S. contributions to UNRWA through global humanitarian accounts since 1950 have totaled more than $6 billion.
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdf

[kudzu]

Moron:

Bilateral assistance to the Palestinians since 1994 has totaled more than $5 billion, and has been a key part of U.S. policy to encourage an Israeli-Palestinian peace process, improve life for West Bank and Gaza residents, and (since 2007) strengthen the West Bank based PA vis-à-vis Hamas in Gaza. U.S. contributions to UNRWA through global humanitarian accounts since 1950 have totaled more than $6 billion.
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdf

And that is chicken feed compared to what we have given Israel since 1948.

[Truth Detector]

And that is chicken feed compared to what we have given Israel since 1948.

Yep; in leftist loony tune land where liars lie, $11 billion is mere chicken feed. STFU, seriously.

So again I would ask this question; what is it that makes you want to begrudge the Jews this tiny strip of worthless sand that comprises less than 1% of the Middle East? Why is it so egregious? Let's expose that anti-Semitic sewer you wallow in.