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kudzu
10-25-2018, 06:21 AM
military supremacy.

nazi ideology

Hitler’s 1924 book Mein Kampf

The two cornerstone documents of Nazi ideology were the NSDAP’s 25 Points (1920) and Hitler’s autobiography, Mein Kampf (1924). Nazi ideas were also outlined or discussed, albeit briefly, in many of Hitler’s speeches. But none of these sources was constitutional in nature, nor did they offer much in the way of details or specifics about how Nazi ideas should work in practice.

Hitler seemed to prefer that expressions of Nazi ideology were short, simple and broadly framed. At several times in the 1920s, Hitler resisted proposals to expand or re-draft the party’s 25 Points, declaring them to be “inviolable”. This was probably a deliberate strategy: because Nazi ideology was only ever outlined vaguely or in general terms, Hitler was free to interpret or re-invent it as he saw fit. Yet despite this fluidity Nazi had some core tenets that did not change:

Authoritarianism.

The Nazis desired strong government and extensive state power. They believed that government could not function effectively if it lacked the means to impose itself on society and enforce its policies. Decisions should be made by a leader with almost absolute power (a Fuhrer).

All political authority and sovereignty rested with this leader, who should be trusted by the people to make important decisions on their behalf (fuhrerprinzip). No other political parties or organisations other than the NSDAP could be tolerated. Other groups with political influence, such as unions or churches, would be restricted or abolished.

Totalitarianism.

To the Nazis, state power had few limits and could extend into all aspects of German political, social and cultural life. They believed it was the government’s duty not just to devise policy but to shape, coordinate and regulate society, for the betterment of the nation.

A totalitarian government must have the authority to control the press and unions; restrict civil liberties and freedoms; manage education and employ propaganda. Liberal freedoms from government power – such as civil liberties, individual rights and freedoms – were considered irrelevant and subordinate to the interests of the state.

Before total war, Nazism was a potpourri. Racialism and nationalism jostled shoulders with the socialistic revolutionary conservatism of many members of the Mittelstand (middle class). Romantic ideas came from right-wing youth groups. Hitler could utter the gospel of anti-capitalism to workers and the gospel of profits to businessmen. It was a rag-bag of inconsistent and incoherent ideas.

Walter Phillips, historian

Nationalism. Nazism was first and foremost a nationalist ideology. It was concerned only with Germany and German interests: restoring the German economy, achieving economic self-sufficiency, rebuilding its military and providing for the German people.

The Nazis had little interest in forming or improving international relationships, except to advance German interests. They detested diplomacy and despised multilateral groups like the League of Nations. Hitler and his followers had no intention of honouring or abiding by existing foreign treaties or negotiating new ones, except where it might help them fulfil their own objectives.

Militarism.

Hitler and his followers believed that re-arming and expanding Germany’s armed forces was essential for the defence of the nation. Rearmament would be carried out in defiance of the restrictions imposed by the Treaty of Versailles. Hitler also considered military strength essential for expanding the German state. The organisation and culture of the NSDAP were fundamentally militaristic, as evidenced by the size and popularity of the party’s paramilitary groups the Sturmabteilung (SA) and Schutzstaffel (SS).

Expansionism. The Nazis in general and Hitler, in particular, dreamed of unifying the German-speaking Aryan peoples of Europe, into a greater German state. To achieve this, Hitler believed his regime would need to acquire lebensraum, or ‘living space’, to accommodate the needs of the new Germany.

This ‘living space’ would be seized from the non-Aryan people of eastern Europe, in countries like Czechoslovakia, Poland and Russia. The first step to creating this greater Germany would be to achieve anschluss: the union of Germany and Austria.

https://alphahistory.com/nazigermany/nazi-ideology/

PostmodernProphet
10-25-2018, 07:08 AM
stupid thread, stupid premise, stupid poster......

kudzu
10-25-2018, 07:14 AM
stupid thread, stupid premise, stupid poster......

Of course you would think its stupid.

kudzu
10-25-2018, 07:20 AM
stupid thread, stupid premise, stupid poster......

Of course you would think its stupid.

Right wing or left wing?

nazi ideology

In the ‘horseshoe theory’ the extreme ends are closer to each other

A question often asked of Nazi ideology is if it was left-wing or right-wing.

Conventional understanding suggests Nazism and fascism occupied the far right-wing of the political spectrum, with socialism on the far left.

In reality, this kind of linear positioning is too simplistic to be accurate. Some historians and political commenters argue that Nazism had more common with Stalinist socialism than political conservatism.

Hitler and Stalin were both totalitarian leaders; both regimes placed the needs of the state over those of the individual; both harnessed the economy to meet national priorities. There were some critical differences between Nazism and Stalinism, however, particularly in economic policy.

Private ownership of capital was permitted in Nazi Germany but outlawed in Soviet Russia. Under Hitler, Germany’s industrial moguls became even wealthier while small business was encouraged; privately-owned capital was only seized if it belonged to Jews. Both dictators sought to revive industrial production but used different approaches.

Both had different views and policies with regard to class, race and gender. French philosopher Jean-Pierre Faye suggests Nazism and Stalinist socialism occupied different ends of a horseshoe: they were opposed to each other ideologically but shared some goals and methods.

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 07:25 AM
..

OK so what's the point? Please tell me you're going to try to make the case that Trump is a Nazi.

iolo
10-25-2018, 07:30 AM
Hitler, like Trump, supported monopoly capitalism, Stalin State Capitalism. Capitalism is not in enough of a crisis, nor is trump efficient enough, to produce real nazism

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 07:30 AM
Hitler, like Trump, supported monopoly capitalism, Stalin State Capitalism. Capitalism is not in enough of a crisis, nor is trump efficient enough, to produce real nazism

You say this after watching Bush and Obama in action? Dumbass white boy.

kudzu
10-25-2018, 07:31 AM
OK so what's the point? Please tell me you're going to try to make the case that Trump is a Nazi.

If the shoe fits........

Too many people on the board don't know what nationalism means and confuse it with "patriotism".

This thread is just about defining terms.

kudzu
10-25-2018, 07:31 AM
You say this after watching Bush and Obama in action? Dumbass white boy.

Hitler was all about protectionism.

Protectionism is the economic policy of restricting imports from other countries through methods such as tariffs on imported goods, import quotas, and a variety of other government regulations.

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 07:32 AM
If the shoe fits........

Too many people on the board don't know what nationalism means and confuse it with "patriotism".

This thread is just about defining terms.

I think you underestimate the board. I'm not aware of any confusion here except for a couple of people and I think they want to foster confusion.

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 07:34 AM
Hitler was all about protectionism.

Protectionism is the economic policy of restricting imports from other countries through methods such as tariffs on imported goods, import quotas, and a variety of other government regulations.

So was Thomas Jefferson. So was Washington. So was Hamilton.

kudzu
10-25-2018, 07:35 AM
So was Thomas Jefferson. So was Washington. So was Hamilton.

No they weren't.. Did you study American history?

Protectionism and nationalism go hand in hand.

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 07:39 AM
No they weren't.. Did you study American history?

Protectionism and nationalism go hand in hand.

Yes, I did study a little bit. You do of course realize that tariffs were very important to this nation for a very long time? And Hitler liked dogs so dog lovers are Nazis? Of course not, that's absurd and suggesting that tariffs indicate Nazi sympathies is just as absurd.

kudzu
10-25-2018, 07:43 AM
The Great Depression didn't really lead to the rise of protectionism. Most would say that the Great Depression didn't become "great" until the U.S. put various protectionist tariffs in place and it was the protectionism that made an "ordinary" depression "great".

Note how things weren't all that bad until the 1930 U.S. Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act and the responses it engendered:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression

kudzu
10-25-2018, 07:47 AM
Yes, I did study a little bit. You do of course realize that tariffs were very important to this nation for a very long time? And Hitler liked dogs so dog lovers are Nazis? Of course not, that's absurd and suggesting that tariffs indicate Nazi sympathies is just as absurd.

Breakdown of international trade

Many economists have argued that the sharp decline in international trade after 1930 helped to worsen the depression, especially for countries significantly dependent on foreign trade.

In a 1995 survey of American economic historians, two-thirds agreed that the Smoot–Hawley Tariff Act at least worsened the Great Depression. Most historians and economists partly blame the American Smoot–Hawley Tariff Act (enacted June 17, 1930) for worsening the depression by seriously reducing international trade and causing retaliatory tariffs in other countries.

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 07:50 AM
Breakdown of international trade

Many economists have argued that the sharp decline in international trade after 1930 helped to worsen the depression, especially for countries significantly dependent on foreign trade.

In a 1995 survey of American economic historians, two-thirds agreed that the Smoot–Hawley Tariff Act at least worsened the Great Depression. Most historians and economists partly blame the American Smoot–Hawley Tariff Act (enacted June 17, 1930) for worsening the depression by seriously reducing international trade and causing retaliatory tariffs in other countries.

Most American history is pre-1930.

RB 60
10-25-2018, 07:51 AM
You say this after watching Bush and Obama in action? Dumbass white boy.

Be careful what you say about Obama, Mr. Black. Your honky DNA is showing ;)

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 07:54 AM
Be careful what you say about Obama, Mr. Black. Your honky DNA is showing ;)

He was an uncle tom, a mulatto. His hook shot and his bracket picks sucked. Black my ass.

evince
10-25-2018, 08:00 AM
storm fronters sure are fucking boring

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 08:01 AM
storm fronters sure are fucking boring

Good to see you're back, you got tired of jilling off to pictures of dead Syrians?

RB 60
10-25-2018, 08:02 AM
He was an uncle tom, a mulatto. His hook shot and his bracket picks sucked. Black my ass.

I didn't mention color, but he ain't white, ask him. His picks and hooks may have sucked, I hate basketball anyway.

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 08:03 AM
I didn't mention color, but he ain't white, ask him. His picks and hooks may have sucked, I hate basketball anyway.


??? White Devil !!!!!!!!

evince
10-25-2018, 08:04 AM
fucking racist assholes


the republican party is now scraping the sewers

RB 60
10-25-2018, 08:06 AM
??? White Devil !!!!!!!!

I am a hockey (and drag racing) fan. And yes, I hate basketball.

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 08:07 AM
I am a hockey (and drag racing) fan. And yes, I hate basketball.

Die!!!!!!!

RB 60
10-25-2018, 08:11 AM
Die!!!!!!!

Nope. I will not die. I am the white chestnut burr in your ass. Don't sit down.

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 08:13 AM
Nope. I will not die. I am the white chestnut burr in your ass. Don't sit down.

You will die honky

#bombmetoo

RB 60
10-25-2018, 08:20 AM
You will die honky

#bombmetoo

I am a conservative, I am safe. No bombs coming my way.

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 08:33 AM
I am a conservative, I am safe. No bombs coming my way.

Not yet. If they get desperate you never know.

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 08:34 AM
Still waiting on the "Trump is a Nazi" argument.

RB 60
10-25-2018, 08:38 AM
Not yet. If they get desperate you never know.

I am just a rural hillbilly, a deplorable if you will. I am of no consequence.

Cypress
10-25-2018, 08:57 AM
Totally understandable why Trump boot-lickers desire to conflate the word "nationalism" with the more benign word "patriotism"....ignoring that nationalism is historically and currently associated with unrestrained hubris, a sense of superiority to other nations and cultures, and a repugnant desire to look on others as inferior, unworthy...even sub-human (aka, shithole countries).

Yep, nationalism is an ideology quite correctly correlated with racism, militarism, and xenophobia.

kudzu
10-25-2018, 09:00 AM
Totally understandable why Trump boot-lickers desire to conflate the word "nationalism" with the more benign word "patriotism"....ignoring that nationalism is historically and currently associated with unrestrained hubris, a sense of superiority to other nations and cultures, and repugnant desire to look on others as inferior, unworthy...even sub-human (aka, shithole countries).

Yep, nationalism is an ideology quite correctly correlated with racism, militarism, and xenophobia.

Nazism, Fascism and Zionism share common ideology.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fascism

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 09:02 AM
Nazism, Fascism and Zionism share common ideology.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fascism

So what? You made specific points and we were just getting into that. Now you don't want to? Tell me how tariffs are fascist.

evince
10-25-2018, 09:02 AM
just like they have claimed for years now that America is not a democracy

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 09:03 AM
just like they have claimed for years now that America is not a democracy

America isn't a democracy but that's not what the thread is about. Try to keep up.

kudzu
10-25-2018, 09:04 AM
So what? You made specific points and we were just getting into that. Now you don't want to? Tell me how tariffs are fascist.

There is a strong link between fascism and protectionism.

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 09:06 AM
There is a strong link between fascism and protectionism.

You keep saying that and I say Hitler liked dogs. Protectionism isn't fascist by nature.

Ralph
10-25-2018, 09:09 AM
military supremacy.

nazi ideology

Hitler’s 1924 book Mein Kampf

The two cornerstone documents of Nazi ideology were the NSDAP’s 25 Points (1920) and Hitler’s autobiography, Mein Kampf (1924). Nazi ideas were also outlined or discussed, albeit briefly, in many of Hitler’s speeches. But none of these sources was constitutional in nature, nor did they offer much in the way of details or specifics about how Nazi ideas should work in practice.

Hitler seemed to prefer that expressions of Nazi ideology were short, simple and broadly framed. At several times in the 1920s, Hitler resisted proposals to expand or re-draft the party’s 25 Points, declaring them to be “inviolable”. This was probably a deliberate strategy: because Nazi ideology was only ever outlined vaguely or in general terms, Hitler was free to interpret or re-invent it as he saw fit. Yet despite this fluidity Nazi had some core tenets that did not change:

Authoritarianism.

The Nazis desired strong government and extensive state power. They believed that government could not function effectively if it lacked the means to impose itself on society and enforce its policies. Decisions should be made by a leader with almost absolute power (a Fuhrer).

All political authority and sovereignty rested with this leader, who should be trusted by the people to make important decisions on their behalf (fuhrerprinzip). No other political parties or organisations other than the NSDAP could be tolerated. Other groups with political influence, such as unions or churches, would be restricted or abolished.

Totalitarianism.

To the Nazis, state power had few limits and could extend into all aspects of German political, social and cultural life. They believed it was the government’s duty not just to devise policy but to shape, coordinate and regulate society, for the betterment of the nation.

A totalitarian government must have the authority to control the press and unions; restrict civil liberties and freedoms; manage education and employ propaganda. Liberal freedoms from government power – such as civil liberties, individual rights and freedoms – were considered irrelevant and subordinate to the interests of the state.

Before total war, Nazism was a potpourri. Racialism and nationalism jostled shoulders with the socialistic revolutionary conservatism of many members of the Mittelstand (middle class). Romantic ideas came from right-wing youth groups. Hitler could utter the gospel of anti-capitalism to workers and the gospel of profits to businessmen. It was a rag-bag of inconsistent and incoherent ideas.

Walter Phillips, historian

Nationalism. Nazism was first and foremost a nationalist ideology. It was concerned only with Germany and German interests: restoring the German economy, achieving economic self-sufficiency, rebuilding its military and providing for the German people.

The Nazis had little interest in forming or improving international relationships, except to advance German interests. They detested diplomacy and despised multilateral groups like the League of Nations. Hitler and his followers had no intention of honouring or abiding by existing foreign treaties or negotiating new ones, except where it might help them fulfil their own objectives.

Militarism.

Hitler and his followers believed that re-arming and expanding Germany’s armed forces was essential for the defence of the nation. Rearmament would be carried out in defiance of the restrictions imposed by the Treaty of Versailles. Hitler also considered military strength essential for expanding the German state. The organisation and culture of the NSDAP were fundamentally militaristic, as evidenced by the size and popularity of the party’s paramilitary groups the Sturmabteilung (SA) and Schutzstaffel (SS).

Expansionism. The Nazis in general and Hitler, in particular, dreamed of unifying the German-speaking Aryan peoples of Europe, into a greater German state. To achieve this, Hitler believed his regime would need to acquire lebensraum, or ‘living space’, to accommodate the needs of the new Germany.

This ‘living space’ would be seized from the non-Aryan people of eastern Europe, in countries like Czechoslovakia, Poland and Russia. The first step to creating this greater Germany would be to achieve anschluss: the union of Germany and Austria.

https://alphahistory.com/nazigermany/nazi-ideology/

Correction: The NAZI PARTY was called the NATIONAL "SOCIALIST" GERMAN WORKERS PARTY....with Hitler's mission statement being, "We (the Nazi party) are SOCAILISTS, the enemy of capitalism and personal wealth......yada, yada, yada,

Conclusion: You are full of SHIT if you expect others to believe that Trump is an anti-capitalist national socialist that demands THE STATE (as in the central government) control all things, to include, education, healthcare, the banks, property, fire arms....etc. LOOK IN THE MIRROR if you wish to look at a political party that mirror's Hitler's mission statement. ;)

The type of NATIONALISM projected by Trump is simple in its mission statement, AMERICA FIRST.....MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN BY PLACING THE NEEDS OF THE US CITIZEN ABOVE THE NEEDS OF FREIGN NATIONALS...in other words CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME.

Which party demands open boarders, the removal of personal firearms, the control of the banking system, federal control of our children's education, selective free speech, etc.? Hint, its not the party of TRUMP.

kudzu
10-25-2018, 09:10 AM
America isn't a democracy but that's not what the thread is about. Try to keep up.

It is true, the Framers meant to establish “a Republic.”

And yes, they openly and repeatedly criticized “democracy.”

But the “democracy” they were criticizing was “direct democracy,” and the “Republic” they were championing was “representative democracy.”

So can you guys (and it’s almost ALWAYS guys) please just give up on this silly “I’m-so-much-smarter-than-you high school debater’s quibble:

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 09:10 AM
It is true, the Framers meant to establish “a Republic.”

And yes, they openly and repeatedly criticized “democracy.”

But the “democracy” they were criticizing was “direct democracy,” and the “Republic” they were championing was “representative democracy.”

So can you guys (and it’s almost ALWAYS guys) please just give up on this silly “I’m-so-much-smarter-than-you high school debater’s quibble:

Stop fucking around. Why is Trump a Nazi?

kudzu
10-25-2018, 09:19 AM
Stop fucking around. Why is Trump a Nazi?

I didn't say Trump was a Nazi.. I said he was too stupid to know what a nationalist is.

kudzu
10-25-2018, 09:20 AM
Correction: The NAZI PARTY was called the NATIONAL "SOCIALIST" GERMAN WORKERS PARTY....with Hitler's mission statement being, "We (the Nazi party) are SOCAILISTS, the enemy of capitalism and personal wealth......yada, yada, yada,

Conclusion: You are full of SHIT if you expect others to believe that Trump is an anti-capitalist national socialist that demands THE STATE (as in the central government) control all things, to include, education, healthcare, the banks, property, fire arms....etc. LOOK IN THE MIRROR if you wish to look at a political party that mirror's Hitler's mission statement. ;)

The type of NATIONALISM projected by Trump is simple in its mission statement, AMERICA FIRST.....MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN BY PLACING THE NEEDS OF THE US CITIZEN ABOVE THE NEEDS OF FREIGN NATIONALS...in other words CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME.

Which party demands open boarders, the removal of personal firearms, the control of the banking system, federal control of our children's education, selective free speech, etc.? Hint, its not the party of TRUMP.

Nazi was considered left wing... Fascism was right wing.

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 09:23 AM
I didn't say Trump was a Nazi.. I said he was too stupid to know what a nationalist is.

That's not exactly what you did. You tied nationalist beliefs to Nazi beliefs and then said Trump is a nationalist. Transitive property. Put up or shut up.

Tkaffen
10-25-2018, 09:25 AM
Bunch of idiots.
To compare Hitler and Stalin to any politician in this country shows your stupidity.
To be clear the German army is not the same as a Nazi.
The Nazi Party was a political party which took control of Germany. The Nazi party formed a paramilitary group (SS) that was separate from the army. They were required to join the Nazi Party.

If you think Hitler was bad, Stalin was worse.
My family escaped with the Germans the brutality of the Russians.

It is laughable to read some of these posts that compare Trump and his policies to Hilter and the Nazi party. I say to these people put down your game systems and read a fuckin book. Also turn off the stupid television shows and turn on the History Channel or Ken Burns WWll documentary. You might learn something.

Ralph
10-25-2018, 09:34 AM
Nazi was considered left wing... Fascism was right wing.

:bigthink:....so the NAZI's were LEFT WING SOCIALISTS....but not FASCISTS? Really? :laugh:


Conclusion: You agree with Hitler's approach to government as you are a left wing socialist.

One post and you have already contradicted the conclusion of the thread. :palm:

FYI: Fascism is a "bi-sexual" bitch, she swings both ways, left and right, she's a switch hitter. Most importantly as demonstrated by every example of documented history...…..FASCISTS always promote a form of SOCIALISM while removing free market capitalism. Example: Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Castro, Chavez....etc.,


The first 3 traits of a fascist? 1. State Control (central government) of all media and entertainment outlets 2. State Control of Education and Healthcare 3. Taking away private firearms.

kudzu
10-25-2018, 09:41 AM
:bigthink:....so the NAZI's were LEFT WING SOCIALISTS....but not FASCISTS? Really? :laugh:


Conclusion: You agree with Hitler's approach to government as you are a left wing socialist.

One post and you have already contradicted the conclusion of the thread. :palm:

FYI: Fascism is a "bi-sexual" bitch, she swings both ways, left and right, she's a switch hitter. Most importantly as demonstrated by every example of documented history...…..FASCISTS always promote a form of SOCIALISM while removing free market capitalism.

Nazism is considered to be one form of fascism. Though both Nazism and fascism reject the ideologies of liberalism, Marxism and democracy, these two are different in many aspects. It is hard to make a perfect differentiation between the two.

Nazism and Fascism have their origin in the 20th century. While fascism was in vogue between 1919 and 1945, Nazism became popular from 1933 to 1945.



Read more: Difference Between Fascism and Nazism | Difference Between http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-fascism-and-nazism/#ixzz5UxS5hFj1

Ralph
10-25-2018, 09:49 AM
Nazism is considered to be one form of fascism. Though both Nazism and fascism reject the ideologies of liberalism, Marxism and democracy, these two are different in many aspects. It is hard to make a perfect differentiation between the two.

Nazism and Fascism have their origin in the 20th century. While fascism was in vogue between 1919 and 1945, Nazism became popular from 1933 to 1945.



Read more: Difference Between Fascism and Nazism | Difference Between http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-fascism-and-nazism/#ixzz5UxS5hFj1

A fascist is a fascist regardless of the road traveled to the SAME DISTINATION.....STATE CONTROL of private industry, banks, education, property, media, entertainment...etc., As was pointed out.....FASCISM is a switch hitting bi-sexual bitch, she bats both ways....but in the end, SOCIALISM just like fatty shit, FLOATS to the top of the bowl.

kudzu
10-25-2018, 10:07 AM
A fascist is a fascist regardless of the road traveled to the SAME DISTINATION.....STATE CONTROL of private industry, banks, education, property, media, entertainment...etc., As was pointed out.....FASCISM is a switch hitting bi-sexual bitch, she bats both ways....but in the end, SOCIALISM just like fatty shit, FLOATS to the top of the bowl.


In communism, the state is the custodian of everything and it is the state that owns everything. On the other hand, in Fascism, the state has control over everything. In simple words, Communism means state ownership and fascism means state control.

Fascism believes in the ‘corporatism’ of all elements in society to form an ‘Organic State’. They were not racial and had no strong opinion of any race.


Read more: Difference Between Communism and fascism | Difference Between http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-communism-and-fascism/#ixzz5UxXzzWEZ


The Doctrine of Fascism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doctrine_of_Fascism

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 10:10 AM
In communism, the state is the custodian of everything and it is the state that owns everything. On the other hand, in Fascism, the state has control over everything. In simple words, Communism means state ownership and fascism means state control.

Fascism believes in the ‘corporatism’ of all elements in society to form an ‘Organic State’. They were not racial and had no strong opinion of any race.


Read more: Difference Between Communism and fascism | Difference Between http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-communism-and-fascism/#ixzz5UxXzzWEZ


The Doctrine of Fascism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doctrine_of_Fascism

You just made a strong case for Fascism being Socialism.

PostmodernProphet
10-25-2018, 10:14 AM
If the shoe fits........



......some dumbfuck lib'rul has torn the sole out of it......

PostmodernProphet
10-25-2018, 10:15 AM
And Hitler liked dogs so dog lovers are Nazis? Of course not, that's absurd

I agree......its cat lovers who are Nazis.......

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 10:18 AM
I agree......its cat lovers who are Nazis.......

Cats are freaky...white people pets.

kudzu
10-25-2018, 10:18 AM
You just made a strong case for Fascism being Socialism.

Control and ownership are not the same thing.. Read it carefully. Italian conservatives embraced Fascism.

PostmodernProphet
10-25-2018, 10:18 AM
There is a strong link between lib'rulism and ignorance

..

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 10:19 AM
Control and ownership are not the same thing.. Read it carefully. Italian conservatives embraced Fascism.

Actually, yes they are.

PostmodernProphet
10-25-2018, 10:21 AM
Cats are freaky...white people pets.

tell that to the Black Panther.....

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 10:21 AM
tell that to the Black Panther.....

He's a honky tool.

PostmodernProphet
10-25-2018, 10:24 AM
He's a honky tool.

true......he let all his people die to do a favor for Captain America.....

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 10:26 AM
true......he let all his people die to do a favor for Captain America.....

That nigger was an uncle tom.

PostmodernProphet
10-25-2018, 12:14 PM
That nigger was an uncle tom.

the bald women in his army were sweet though.........

kudzu
10-25-2018, 12:43 PM
Actually, yes they are.

You're wrong and it doesn't matter, but it is a liability to have such an uneducated president.

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 01:11 PM
You're wrong and it doesn't matter, but it is a liability to have such an uneducated president.

This is what you people tell yourselves to feel better but the fact is you and fascism are two sides of the same coin. Public ownership or control, it's still tyranny.

kudzu
10-25-2018, 01:17 PM
This is what you people tell yourselves to feel better but the fact is you and fascism are two sides of the same coin. Public ownership or control, it's still tyranny.

I am not an advocate for public ownership. What are you talking about?

Trump claims he a nationalist... acting out like some imitation Howard Stern shock jock... and counting on the ignorance of his base to cheer and clap.

kudzu
10-25-2018, 01:20 PM
Communism vs. Fascism



https://www.diffen.com/difference/Communism_vs_Fascism

Lightbringer
10-25-2018, 01:21 PM
I am not an advocate for public ownership. What are you talking about?

Trump claims he a nationalist... acting out like some imitation Howard Stern shock jock... and counting on the ignorance of his base to cheer and clap.

I'm talking about the bullshit you're spewing in this thread. Decide what your point is and then make it. If you could work Trump in that would be great, thanks.

Hermes Thoth
10-25-2018, 03:50 PM
Bernie also believed all the shitty trade deals are shitty.

Globalism just means that there can be no authority that can stop multinational corporations from sculpting all world policy to maximize their profit.

Hermes Thoth
10-25-2018, 03:53 PM
Was Bernie a nazi, you globalist brainwash victims?

kudzu
10-25-2018, 04:26 PM
Bernie also believed all the shitty trade deals are shitty.

Globalism just means that there can be no authority that can stop multinational corporations from sculpting all world policy to maximize their profit.

Trump screwed US farmers when he pulled out of TPP.. He didn't know what it was about, but he did know that Obama worked on it... so Trump was automatically against it.. Damned shame.

Hermes Thoth
10-25-2018, 04:48 PM
Trump screwed US farmers when he pulled out of TPP.. He didn't know what it was about, but he did know that Obama worked on it... so Trump was automatically against it.. Damned shame.

Tpp was shit. Pulling out helps more than it hurts.

kudzu
10-25-2018, 04:50 PM
Tpp was shit. Pulling out helps more than it hurts.

You don't know what it was about either.....:palm:

Hermes Thoth
10-25-2018, 04:53 PM
You don't know what it was about either.....:palm:

I think you mean "neither", ya rube.

bhaktajan
10-27-2018, 08:38 AM
Hitler was all about protectionism.

Protectionism is the economic policy of restricting imports from other countries through
methods such as tariffs on imported goods, import quotas, and a variety of other government regulations.

Hitler was all about taking all the hinterlands while they were statistically inhabited by rural simple folks.

Hitler was all about Bonapartism.
The term was used more generally for a political movement that advocated a dictatorship or
authoritarian centralized state, with a strongman charismatic leader based on anti-elitist rhetoric,
army support, and conservatism.

Marxism and Leninism developed a vocabulary of political terms that included Bonapartism.

Philosophically, Bonapartism was Napoleon's adaptation of principles of the French Revolution
to suit his imperial form of rule. Desires for public order, French national glory, and emulation
of the Roman Empire had combined to create a Caesarist coup d'etat for General Bonaparte
on 18 Brumaire. Though he espoused adherence to revolutionary precedents, he "styled his
direct and personal rule on the Old Regime monarchs."[1] For Bonapartists, the most significant
lesson of the Revolution was that unity of government and the governed was paramount.

Karl Marx offered this definition of and analysis of Bonapartism in The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte,
written in 1852. In this document, he drew attention to what he calls the phenomenon's repetitive history
with one of his most quoted lines, typically condensed aphoristically as: "History repeats itself,
first as tragedy, then as farce."[9]

Marx believed that a Bonapartist regime could exert great power, because there was no class
with enough confidence or power to firmly establish its authority in its own name. A leader who
appeared to stand above the class struggle could take the mantle of power. He believed that this
was an inherently unstable situation, as the apparently all-powerful leader would be swept aside
when the class struggle in society was resolved.

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Hitler was all about the Napoleonist Syndrome

The Napoleonist Syndrome is a psychological complex, or character disorder, underlying the attachment shown by members of a combatant country to the enemy leader, Napoleon.
It may be extended to cover parallel switches of allegiance in more modern times.
The common factor in that syndrome is taken to be an ambivalent relationship to the parent or parent of origins, leading to a rejection of national authority, and its projection abroad.[4] The argument is particularly convincing in the case of a group of Radicals including Leigh Hunt and William Godwin, as well as Hazlitt - all the sons of dissenting ministers, whose religious beliefs they had rejected but whose influence on them remained substantial nevertheless.[5] Their common revolt against their fathers led to a counter-identification with the heroic figure presented by Napoleon[6] - his Promethean challenge to the existing order[7] seeming to offer a stark contrast to the narrow authoritarianism represented both by their own fathers, and by the British royal family.

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Definition of Promethean:
relating to or characteristic of the demigod Prometheus, especially in being rebelliously creative and innovative.
"the Promethean scientist who unlocked the mysteries of the cosmos"

Willing to take risks in order to create new things or do things in new ways, like Prometheus, the ancient Greek demigod (= part human and part god) who stole fire from Mount Olympus: His life was that of a Promethean rebel.

bhaktajan
10-27-2018, 08:51 AM
Trump screwed US farmers when he pulled out of TPP.. He didn't know what it was about, but he did know that Obama worked on it... so Trump was automatically against it.. Damned shame.

May be another Chicago Democrat will arise from the streets and put us right.

Never forget the 1968 Democratic National Convention
In 1968, the National Mobilization Committee to End the War in Vietnam and the Youth International Party (Yippies)
had already begun planning a youth festival in Chicago to coincide with the Democratic National Convention.
They were not alone, as other groups such as Students for a Democratic Society would also make their
presence known.[20] When asked about anti-war demonstrators, Daley repeated to reporters that "no thousands
will come to our city and take over our streets, our city, our convention."[21] 10,000 demonstrators gathered in
Chicago for the convention, where they were met by 23,000 police and National Guardsmen.[12] Daley also
thought that one way to prevent demonstrators from coming to Chicago was to refuse to grant permits
which would allow for people to protest legally.[22]

After the violence at the Chicago convention, Daley said his primary reason for calling in so many Guardsmen and
police was reports he received indicating the existence of plots to assassinate many of the leaders, including himself.[23]

While several protests had taken place before serious violence occurred, the events headed by the Yippies were
not without satire. Surrounded by reporters on August 23, 1968, Yippie leader Jerry Rubin, folk singer Phil Ochs,
and other activists held their own presidential nominating convention with their candidate Pigasus, an actual pig.
When the Yippies paraded Pigasus at the Civic Center, ten policemen arrested Ochs, Rubin, Pigasus, and six others.
This resulted in a great deal of media attention for Pigasus.

On August 28, 1968, around 10,000 protesters gathered in Grant Park for the demonstration. At approximately 3:30 p.m.,
a young man lowered the American flag that was there.[11] The police broke through the crowd and began beating the
young man, while the crowd pelted the police with food, rocks, and chunks of concrete.[25] The chants of some of the
protesters shifted from "hell no, we won't go" to "pigs are whores".[26]

Tom Hayden, one of the leaders of Students for a Democratic Society, encouraged protesters to move out of the park
to ensure that if the police used tear gas on them, it would have to be done throughout the city.[27] The amount of
tear gas used to suppress the protesters was so great that it made its way to the Conrad Hilton hotel, where it disturbed
Hubert Humphrey while in his shower.[26] The police sprayed demonstrators and bystanders with mace and were taunted
by some protesters with chants of "kill, kill, kill".[28] The police assault in front of the Conrad Hilton hotel the evening
of August 28 became the most famous image of the Chicago demonstrations of 1968. The entire event took place live
under television lights for seventeen minutes with the crowd chanting, "The whole world is watching".[26]

In its report Rights in Conflict (better known as the Walker Report), the Chicago Study Team that investigated the
violent clashes between police and protesters at the convention stated that the police response was characterized by:
unrestrained and indiscriminate police violence on many occasions, particularly at night. That violence was made all the
more shocking by the fact that it was often inflicted upon persons who had broken no law, disobeyed no order, made
no threat. These included peaceful demonstrators, onlookers, and large numbers of residents who were simply passing
through, or happened to live in, the areas where confrontations were occurring.[29][30]
The Walker Report, "headed by an independent observer from Los Angeles police – concluded that: “Individual policemen,
and lots of them, committed violent acts far in excess of the requisite force for crowd dispersal or arrest. To read
dispassionately the hundreds of statements describing at firsthand the events of Sunday and Monday nights is to
become convinced of the presence of what can only be called a police riot.”"

Connecticut Senator Abraham Ribicoff used his nominating speech for George McGovern to report the violence going
on outside the convention hall and said that "With George McGovern as President of the United States, we wouldn't
have to have Gestapo tactics in the streets of Chicago!"[34] Mayor Daley responded to his remark with something
unintelligible through the television sound, although lip-readers throughout America claimed to have observed him
shouting, "Fuck you, you Jew son of a bitch." Defenders of the mayor would later claim that he was calling Ribicoff
a faker,[32][33] a charge denied by Daley and refuted by Mike Royko's reporting.[35] Ribicoff replied: "How hard it
is to accept the truth!" That night, NBC News had been switching back and forth between images of the violence
to the festivities over Humphrey's victory in the convention hall, highlighting the division in the Democratic Party.[36]
According to The Guardian, "[a]fter four days and nights of violence, 668 people had been arrested, 425 demonstrators
were treated at temporary medical facilities, 200 were treated on the spot, 400 given first aid for tear gas exposure
and 110 went to hospital. A total of 192 police officers were injured."[37]

After the Chicago protests, some demonstrators believed the majority of Americans would side with them over what
had happened in Chicago, especially because of police behavior.[37] The controversy over the war in Vietnam
overshadowed their cause.[16] Daley shared he had received 135,000 letters supporting his actions and only 5,000
condemning them. Public opinion polls demonstrated that the majority of Americans supported the Mayor's tactics.[38]
It was often commented through the popular media that on that evening, America decided to vote for Richard Nixon.

After Chicago, the Justice Department meted out charges of conspiracy and incitement to riot in connection with the
violence at Chicago. This created the Chicago Eight, consisting of protesters Abbie Hoffman, Tom Hayden, David Dellinger,
Rennie Davis, John Froines, Jerry Rubin, Lee Weiner, and Bobby Seale.[40] Demonstrations were held daily during the trial,
organized by the National Mobilization Committee to End the War in Vietnam, the Young Lords led by Jose Cha Cha Jimenez,
and the local Black Panther Party led by Chairman Fred Hampton. In February 1970, five of the remaining seven
Chicago Conspiracy defendants (Seale's charges had been separated from the rest) were convicted on the charge of
intent to incite a riot while crossing state lines, but none were found guilty of conspiracy.
Judge Julius Hoffman sentenced the defendants and their attorneys to jail terms ranging from two-and-a-half months
to four years for contempt of court.[41] In 1972, the convictions were reversed on appeal, and the government declined
to bring the case to trial again.

Hermes Thoth
10-27-2018, 09:34 PM
Wow. They arrested the pig?!

kudzu
11-09-2018, 05:57 AM
Hitler was all about taking all the hinterlands while they were statistically inhabited by rural simple folks.

Hitler was all about Bonapartism.
The term was used more generally for a political movement that advocated a dictatorship or
authoritarian centralized state, with a strongman charismatic leader based on anti-elitist rhetoric,
army support, and conservatism.

Marxism and Leninism developed a vocabulary of political terms that included Bonapartism.

Philosophically, Bonapartism was Napoleon's adaptation of principles of the French Revolution
to suit his imperial form of rule. Desires for public order, French national glory, and emulation
of the Roman Empire had combined to create a Caesarist coup d'etat for General Bonaparte
on 18 Brumaire. Though he espoused adherence to revolutionary precedents, he "styled his
direct and personal rule on the Old Regime monarchs."[1] For Bonapartists, the most significant
lesson of the Revolution was that unity of government and the governed was paramount.

Karl Marx offered this definition of and analysis of Bonapartism in The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte,
written in 1852. In this document, he drew attention to what he calls the phenomenon's repetitive history
with one of his most quoted lines, typically condensed aphoristically as: "History repeats itself,
first as tragedy, then as farce."[9]

Marx believed that a Bonapartist regime could exert great power, because there was no class
with enough confidence or power to firmly establish its authority in its own name. A leader who
appeared to stand above the class struggle could take the mantle of power. He believed that this
was an inherently unstable situation, as the apparently all-powerful leader would be swept aside
when the class struggle in society was resolved.

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Hitler was all about the Napoleonist Syndrome

The Napoleonist Syndrome is a psychological complex, or character disorder, underlying the attachment shown by members of a combatant country to the enemy leader, Napoleon.
It may be extended to cover parallel switches of allegiance in more modern times.
The common factor in that syndrome is taken to be an ambivalent relationship to the parent or parent of origins, leading to a rejection of national authority, and its projection abroad.[4] The argument is particularly convincing in the case of a group of Radicals including Leigh Hunt and William Godwin, as well as Hazlitt - all the sons of dissenting ministers, whose religious beliefs they had rejected but whose influence on them remained substantial nevertheless.[5] Their common revolt against their fathers led to a counter-identification with the heroic figure presented by Napoleon[6] - his Promethean challenge to the existing order[7] seeming to offer a stark contrast to the narrow authoritarianism represented both by their own fathers, and by the British royal family.

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Definition of Promethean:
relating to or characteristic of the demigod Prometheus, especially in being rebelliously creative and innovative.
"the Promethean scientist who unlocked the mysteries of the cosmos"

Willing to take risks in order to create new things or do things in new ways, like Prometheus, the ancient Greek demigod (= part human and part god) who stole fire from Mount Olympus: His life was that of a Promethean rebel.

Simply put Napoleon was also a Nationalist.

PostmodernProphet
11-09-2018, 06:52 AM
Simply put Napoleon was also a Nationalist.

simply put, Buddhist monks are nationalists.......Desmund Tutu was a nationalist.......simply put, kudzu is simply kaput....

countryboy
11-09-2018, 06:58 AM
If the shoe fits........

Too many people on the board don't know what nationalism means and confuse it with "patriotism".

Was Theodore Roosevelt confused when he made his "New Nationalism" speech? https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2011/12/06/archives-president-teddy-roosevelts-new-nationalism-speech

Think Progress seems to be confused as well. https://thinkprogress.org/5-quotes-from-teddy-roosevelt-that-exemplify-what-it-means-to-be-a-progressive-a23ad0318987/


Roosevelt defined what it was to be a progressive, and why the true nationalists and patriots were progressives — and environmentalists:


This thread is just about defining terms.

Lol, no it's not, it's about trying to paint American conservatives as Nazis.

kudzu
11-09-2018, 07:06 AM
simply put, Buddhist monks are nationalists.......Desmund Tutu was a nationalist.......simply put, kudzu is simply kaput....

Desmond Tutu was a nationalist.. but the US isn't. Never has been.

kudzu
11-09-2018, 07:07 AM
Was Theodore Roosevelt confused when he made his "New Nationalism" speech? https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2011/12/06/archives-president-teddy-roosevelts-new-nationalism-speech

Think Progress seems to be confused as well. https://thinkprogress.org/5-quotes-from-teddy-roosevelt-that-exemplify-what-it-means-to-be-a-progressive-a23ad0318987/





Lol, no it's not, it's about trying to paint American conservatives as Nazis.


First you need to know what National Socialism was and what it wasn't.

countryboy
11-09-2018, 07:11 AM
Desmond Tutu was a nationalist.. but the US isn't. Never has been.

Somebody better tell Obama, because this is what he said on December 6, 2011. https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2011/12/06/remarks-president-economy-osawatomie-kansas


And in 1910, Teddy Roosevelt came here to Osawatomie and he laid out his vision for what he called a New Nationalism. “Our country,” he said, “…means nothing unless it means the triumph of a real democracy…of an economic system under which each man shall be guaranteed the opportunity to show the best that there is in him.”

countryboy
11-09-2018, 07:13 AM
First you need to know what National Socialism was and what it wasn't.

I thought this thread was only about defining "nationalism". http://www.animated-smileys.com/emoticons/animated-smileys-rolleyes-08.gif

Mason Michaels
11-12-2018, 10:20 AM
Desmond Tutu was a nationalist.. but the US isn't. Never has been.

Till Trump

bhaktajan
11-12-2018, 02:31 PM
So if "Nationalists" are the so bad ... what explains these countries reasons for independence?

"Central American Nations Declare Independence From Spain. This day in 1821 was an historic day for much of Central America as, after almost three centuries of colonial rule, the nations of Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, and Costa Rica, gained independence from Spain."

Even here it is difficult to understand how a Spanish "satellite" State can become free from Spain ---except if it's in regards to keeping the wealth for themselves.

How was Hispanola a colony of Spain?

Is Alaska a colony of the USA? Is Guam a colony of the USA?


"When did South America become independent?
Only in 1822 did Ecuador fully gain independence and became part of Gran Colombia, from which it withdrew in 1830. At the Battle of Pichincha, near present-day Quito, Ecuador on May 24, 1822, General Antonio José de Sucre's forces defeated a Spanish force defending Quito."

"When did Spain recognize Nicaragua's independence?
Nicaragua's independence became a fact in September 1821. The inhabitants of the Spanish province of Nicaragua, as well as people from other colonies in this region, felt it was time for complete independence."

"What country owns Costa Rica?
Costa Rica. Costa Rica (officially called Republic of Costa Rica), is a country in Central America. It is bordered by Nicaragua to the north, Panama to the southeast, the Pacific Ocean to the west, and the Caribbean Sea to the east. The official language of Costa Rica is Spanish."

bhaktajan
11-12-2018, 02:35 PM
And then there are the Satellite countries of the old Soviet Block ---where they un-patriotic?

While the 18th century in the Balkans was dominated by the steady decline of Ottoman power, the outstanding feature of the 19th century was the creation of nation-states on what had been Ottoman territory. Because the emergence of national consciousness and the creation of nation-states were conditioned by local factors, each nation evolved in an individual way. Nevertheless, some general characteristics are discernible.

The first is that external factors were the ultimate determinants. No Balkan people, no matter how strong their sense of national purpose, could achieve independent statehood, or even a separate administrative identity, without external support. Foreign military intervention on behalf of particular groups was common: Russia aided the Serbs and Bulgarians, while Britain, France, and Russia intervened for the Greeks. The Romanians benefited from the wars of Italian and German unification, and Albanian independence would have been impossible had the Balkan states not smashed Ottoman power in Europe in the First Balkan War (1912–13).

Them dar DAMNED NATIONALISTS! Who did they think they were?!
https://cdn.britannica.com/90/4790-050-3A8E792E.jpg

kudzu
01-06-2019, 05:07 AM
military supremacy.

nazi ideology

Hitler’s 1924 book Mein Kampf

The two cornerstone documents of Nazi ideology were the NSDAP’s 25 Points (1920) and Hitler’s autobiography, Mein Kampf (1924). Nazi ideas were also outlined or discussed, albeit briefly, in many of Hitler’s speeches. But none of these sources was constitutional in nature, nor did they offer much in the way of details or specifics about how Nazi ideas should work in practice.

Hitler seemed to prefer that expressions of Nazi ideology were short, simple and broadly framed. At several times in the 1920s, Hitler resisted proposals to expand or re-draft the party’s 25 Points, declaring them to be “inviolable”. This was probably a deliberate strategy: because Nazi ideology was only ever outlined vaguely or in general terms, Hitler was free to interpret or re-invent it as he saw fit. Yet despite this fluidity Nazi had some core tenets that did not change:

Authoritarianism.

The Nazis desired strong government and extensive state power. They believed that government could not function effectively if it lacked the means to impose itself on society and enforce its policies. Decisions should be made by a leader with almost absolute power (a Fuhrer).

All political authority and sovereignty rested with this leader, who should be trusted by the people to make important decisions on their behalf (fuhrerprinzip). No other political parties or organisations other than the NSDAP could be tolerated. Other groups with political influence, such as unions or churches, would be restricted or abolished.

Totalitarianism.

To the Nazis, state power had few limits and could extend into all aspects of German political, social and cultural life. They believed it was the government’s duty not just to devise policy but to shape, coordinate and regulate society, for the betterment of the nation.

A totalitarian government must have the authority to control the press and unions; restrict civil liberties and freedoms; manage education and employ propaganda. Liberal freedoms from government power – such as civil liberties, individual rights and freedoms – were considered irrelevant and subordinate to the interests of the state.

Before total war, Nazism was a potpourri. Racialism and nationalism jostled shoulders with the socialistic revolutionary conservatism of many members of the Mittelstand (middle class). Romantic ideas came from right-wing youth groups. Hitler could utter the gospel of anti-capitalism to workers and the gospel of profits to businessmen. It was a rag-bag of inconsistent and incoherent ideas.

Walter Phillips, historian

Nationalism. Nazism was first and foremost a nationalist ideology. It was concerned only with Germany and German interests: restoring the German economy, achieving economic self-sufficiency, rebuilding its military and providing for the German people.

The Nazis had little interest in forming or improving international relationships, except to advance German interests. They detested diplomacy and despised multilateral groups like the League of Nations. Hitler and his followers had no intention of honouring or abiding by existing foreign treaties or negotiating new ones, except where it might help them fulfil their own objectives.

Militarism.

Hitler and his followers believed that re-arming and expanding Germany’s armed forces was essential for the defence of the nation. Rearmament would be carried out in defiance of the restrictions imposed by the Treaty of Versailles. Hitler also considered military strength essential for expanding the German state. The organisation and culture of the NSDAP were fundamentally militaristic, as evidenced by the size and popularity of the party’s paramilitary groups the Sturmabteilung (SA) and Schutzstaffel (SS).

Expansionism. The Nazis in general and Hitler, in particular, dreamed of unifying the German-speaking Aryan peoples of Europe, into a greater German state. To achieve this, Hitler believed his regime would need to acquire lebensraum, or ‘living space’, to accommodate the needs of the new Germany.

This ‘living space’ would be seized from the non-Aryan people of eastern Europe, in countries like Czechoslovakia, Poland and Russia. The first step to creating this greater Germany would be to achieve anschluss: the union of Germany and Austria.

https://alphahistory.com/nazigermany/nazi-ideology/

FYI...........

StoneByStone
01-06-2019, 11:35 PM
If the shoe fits........

Too many people on the board don't know what nationalism means and confuse it with "patriotism".

This thread is just about defining terms.

Saying Trump is a Nazi because he called himself a Nationalist is just as stupid as saying Bernie Sanders is a Stalinist because he calls himself a Socialist.

kudzu
01-07-2019, 05:08 AM
Saying Trump is a Nazi because he called himself a Nationalist is just as stupid as saying Bernie Sanders is a Stalinist because he calls himself a Socialist.

nationalism | Definition, History, & Facts | Britannica.com

Nationalism is an ideology that emphasizes loyalty, devotion, or allegiance to a nation or nation-state and holds that such obligations outweigh other individual or group interests.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/nationalism


Nationalism is a modern movement. Throughout history people have been attached to their native soil, to the traditions of their parents, and to established territorial authorities; but it was not until the end of the 18th century that nationalism began to be a generally recognized sentiment molding public and private life and one of the great, if not the greatest, single determining factors of modern history.

Because of its dynamic vitality and its all-pervading character, nationalism is often thought to be very old; sometimes it is mistakenly regarded as a permanent factor in political behaviour. Actually, the American and French revolutions may be regarded as its first powerful manifestations.

After penetrating the new countries of Latin America it spread in the early 19th century to central Europe and from there, toward the middle of the century, to eastern and southeastern Europe. At the beginning of the 20th century nationalism flowered in the ancient lands of Asia and Africa. Thus the 19th century has been called the age of nationalism in Europe, while the 20th century has witnessed the rise and struggle of powerful national movements throughout Asia and Africa.

READ MORE ON THIS TOPIC
Margaret Mead
education: The influence of nationalism
The Enlightenment was cosmopolitan in its effort to spread the light of reason, but from the very beginning of the age there were nationalistic tendencies to be seen in varying shades. Although Rousseau himself was generally concerned with universal man in such works as…

Identification Of State And People
Nationalism, translated into world politics, implies the identification of the state or nation with the people—or at least the desirability of determining the extent of the state according to ethnographic principles. In the age of nationalism, but only in the age of nationalism, the principle was generally recognized that each nationality should form a state—its state—and that the state should include all members of that nationality. Formerly states, or territories under one administration, were not delineated by nationality.

Men did not give their loyalty to the nation-state but to other, different forms of political organization: the city-state, the feudal fief and its lord, the dynastic state, the religious group, or the sect. The nation-state was nonexistent during the greater part of history, and for a very long time it was not even regarded as an ideal. In the first 15 centuries of the Christian Era, the ideal was the universal world-state, not loyalty to any separate political entity. The Roman Empire had set the great example, which survived not only in the Holy Roman Empire of the Middle Ages but also in the concept of the res publica christiana (“Christian republic” or community) and in its later secularized form of a united world civilization.

As political allegiance, before the age of nationalism, was not determined by nationality, so civilization was not thought of as nationally determined. During the Middle Ages civilization was looked upon as determined religiously; for all the different nationalities of Christendom as well as for those of Islām there was but one civilization—Christian or Muslim—and but one language of culture—Latin (or Greek) or Arabic (or Persian). Later, in the periods of the Renaissance and of Classicism, it was the ancient Greek and Roman civilizations that became a universal norm, valid for all peoples and all times. Still later, French civilization was accepted throughout Europe as the valid civilization for educated people of all nationalities.

It was only at the end of the 18th century that, for the first time, civilization was considered to be determined by nationality. It was then that the principle was put forward that a man could be educated only in his own mother tongue, not in languages of other civilizations and other times, whether they were classical languages or the literary creations of other peoples who had reached a high degree of civilization.

Cultural Nationalism
From the end of the 18th century on, the nationalization of education and public life went hand in hand with the nationalization of states and political loyalties. Poets and scholars began to emphasize cultural nationalism first. They reformed the mother tongue, elevated it to the rank of a literary language, and delved deep into the national past. Thus they prepared the foundations for the political claims for national statehood soon to be raised by the people in whom they had kindled the spirit.

Before the 18th century there had been evidences of national feeling among certain groups at certain periods, especially in times of stress and conflict.

The rise of national feeling to major political importance was encouraged by a number of complex developments: the creation of large, centralized states ruled by absolute monarchs who destroyed the old feudal allegiances; the secularization of life and of education, which fostered the vernacular languages and weakened the ties of church and sect; the growth of commerce, which demanded larger territorial units to allow scope for the dynamic spirit of the rising middle classes and their capitalistic enterprise. This large, unified territorial state, with its political and economic centralization, became imbued in the 18th century with a new spirit—an emotional fervour similar to that of religious movements in earlier periods.

Under the influence of the new theories of the sovereignty of the people and the rights of man, the people replaced the king as the centre of the nation. No longer was the king the nation or the state; the state had become the people’s state, a national state, a fatherland. State became identified with nation, as civilization became identified with national civilization.

That development ran counter to the conceptions that had dominated political thought for the preceding 2,000 years. Hitherto man had commonly stressed the general and the universal and had regarded unity as the desirable goal. Nationalism stressed the particular and parochial, the differences, and the national individualities.

Those tendencies became more pronounced as nationalism developed. Its less attractive characteristics were not at first apparent. In the 17th and 18th centuries the common standards of Western civilization, the regard for the universally human, the faith in reason (one and the same everywhere) as well as in common sense, the survival of Christian and Stoic traditions—all of these were still too strong to allow nationalism to develop fully and to disrupt society. Thus nationalism in its beginning was thought to be compatible with cosmopolitan convictions and with a general love of mankind, especially in western Europe and North America.

European Nationalism
English Puritanism and nationalism
The first full manifestation of modern nationalism occurred in 17th-century England, in the Puritan revolution. England had become the leading nation in scientific spirit, in commercial enterprise, in political thought and activity.

Swelled by an immense confidence in the new age, the English people felt upon their shoulders the mission of history, a sense that they were at a great turning point from which a new true reformation and a new liberty would start. In the English revolution an optimistic humanism merged with Calvinist ethics; the influence of the Old Testament gave form to the new nationalism by identifying the English people with ancient Israel.

The new message, carried by the new people not only for England but for all mankind, was expressed in the writings of John Milton, in whose famous vision the idea of liberty was seen spreading from Britain, “celebrated for endless ages as a soil most genial to the growth of liberty,” to all the corners of the earth.

Surrounded by congregated multitudes, I now imagine that…I behold the nations of the earth recovering that liberty which they so long had lost; and that the people of this island are…disseminating the blessings of civilization and freedom among cities, kingdoms and nations.

English nationalism, then, was thus much nearer to its religious matrix than later nationalisms that rose after secularization had made greater progress. The nationalism of the 18th century shared with it, however, its enthusiasm for liberty, its humanitarian character, its emphasis upon the individual and his rights and upon the human community as above all national divisions.

The rise of English nationalism coincided with the rise of the English trading middle classes. It found its final expression in John Locke’s political philosophy, and it was in that form that it influenced American and French nationalism in the following century.

American nationalism was a typical product of the 18th century. British settlers in North America were influenced partly by the traditions of the Puritan revolution and the ideas of Locke and partly by the new rational interpretation given to English liberty by contemporary French philosophers. American settlers became a nation engaged in a fight for liberty and individual rights. They based that fight on current political thought, especially as expressed by Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine.

It was a liberal and humanitarian nationalism that regarded America as in the vanguard of mankind on its march to greater liberty, equality, and happiness for all. The ideas of the 18th century found their first political realization in the Declaration of Independence and in the birth of the American nation. Their deep influence was felt in the French Revolution.

continued