Is free will a myth?

[Grugore]

Can you believe that there are actually idiots who believe this? I can prove that they are wrong. If I take a sledgehammer and destroy their car, they will get mad at me. Think about that.

[Fentoine Lum]

Can you believe that there are actually idiots who believe this? I can prove that they are wrong. If I take a sledgehammer and destroy their car, they will get mad at me. Think about that.

And did you see the Pavlovian burning of nike shoes recently? Man.

[Jack]

Can you believe that there are actually idiots who believe this? I can prove that they are wrong. If I take a sledgehammer and destroy their car, they will get mad at me. Think about that.


I think you got one right this time around.

[Frank Apisa]

Can you believe that there are actually idiots who believe this? I can prove that they are wrong. If I take a sledgehammer and destroy their car, they will get mad at me. Think about that.

You have to be one of the worst (if not THE worst) advocate for philosophical concepts I've ever encountered.

You do not even set out your arguments in a logical, coherent way.

Your first sentence wouldn't hold up in a high school philosophy course.

"...there are actually idiots who believe this?"

Who "believe" what?

Your title (the only antecedent) is a QUESTION...not an assertion.

YOU are the idiot.

Learn to set an argument out coherently...

...then pretend you can defend it!

[Adolf_Twitler]

If you don't believe Free Will exists, try taking it away!

That Free will, will come and kick your ass!

[Adolf_Twitler]

I hate to always have to be the messenger of truth! I mean, how dare me right?

But in America, our Constitution gives us the capacity to make choices, even if we have to make an Amendment to the Constitution!

So keep telling yourself that the Constitution was written by Gods, and that it is written in stone, and it is some kind of completed work such as the Holy Bible- as if it is the Holy Bible itself.

That is where you Constitutionalists and Tee Tee baggers have it all wrong!

[Fentoine Lum]

I hate to always have to be the messenger of truth! I mean, how dare me right?

But in America, our Constitution gives us the capacity to make choices, even if we have to make an Amendment to the Constitution!

So keep telling yourself that the Constitution was written by Gods, and that it is written in stone, and it is some kind of completed work such as the Holy Bible- as if it is the Holy Bible itself.

That is where you Constitutionalists and Tee Tee baggers have it all wrong!

Fuck the constitution, it still allows for slavery.

[Adolf_Twitler]

Fuck the constitution, it still allows for slavery.

You make a point.

But, I'd just like to argue that it is not so much the Constitution that allows for slavery.

But, I do believe people are hiding behind the Constitution, to allow for slave wages in this country.

Our Constitution allows us to establish our own standards for what is acceptable in this country. And do not let anyone tell you any different.

A living wage is a bare minimum of what an individual has to have in order to keep some kind of roof over their head, and maintain all the necessities of life in order to sustain oneself.

And the only way to insure that people willing to work can draw a Living wage is to have a minimum wage- that is equal to a living wage.

Otherwise we are back to the sweat shops and we are just fostering poverty in this country!

And as for all the Big Business that do not want to pay fair and living wages while they laugh all the way to the bank.....

.........I say to you, yes, we will establish a minimum wage that also equals a determined "Living" wage and you will either pay it, or get the fuck out of this country to do your business!

[Grugore]

Fuck the constitution, it still allows for slavery.

No. It doesn't.

[davidpratt]

people are still gonna come with their lame logic and try to defend their argument. It's best to let them figure it out on their own. And people actually do, when they face harsh realities of life.

[PostmodernProphet]

Adolph was not permitted to exercise his free will on this board.........

[iolo]

People have to believe in free will: it is something physical and social evolution compel until we are forced to change the system.

[kudzu]

No. It doesn't.


Predestination, in theology, is the doctrine that all events have been willed by God, usually with reference to the eventual fate of the individual soul.[1] Explanations of predestination often seek to address the "paradox of free will", whereby God's omniscience seems incompatible with human free will. In this usage, predestination can be regarded as a form of religious determinism; and usually predeterminism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination

[PostmodernProphet]

no paradox......God is omiscient, we are not.......since we do not share his foreknowledge of our actions, we make our choices of our own volition.......

[Grugore]

Predestination, in theology, is the doctrine that all events have been willed by God, usually with reference to the eventual fate of the individual soul.[1] Explanations of predestination often seek to address the "paradox of free will", whereby God's omniscience seems incompatible with human free will. In this usage, predestination can be regarded as a form of religious determinism; and usually predeterminism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination

Did you make this reply of your own free will?

[PostmodernProphet]

Did you make this reply of your own free will?

the ones he posts by compulsion are the irrelevant ones........

[Grugore]

the ones he posts by compulsion are the irrelevant ones........

Those who deny God have no free will. They are slaves of the Devil and are compelled to do his bidding.

[Phantasmal]

Those who deny God have no free will. They are slaves of the Devil and are compelled to do his bidding.
Huh? Isn’t it using your free will to make the choice? If God truly gave us free will to decide, why will he punish us for using our free will?

I didnt give my children free will when it came to my rules. Their was no choice, they knew the rules, if they broke the rules there were consequences. I didn’t tell them, it’s your choice. I told them my rules and they complied or there was punishment. This idea we are free to choose and have free will given by the Biblical god is bogus.

[Grugore]

Huh? Isn’t it using your free will to make the choice? If God truly gave us free will to decide, why will he punish us for using our free will?

I didnt give my children free will when it came to my rules. Their was no choice, they knew the rules, if they broke the rules there were consequences. I didn’t tell them, it’s your choice. I told them my rules and they complied or there was punishment. This idea we are free to choose and have free will given by the Biblical god is bogus.

God also has rules. And there are consequences for breaking them. So you actually support my argument. Thanks.

[Phantasmal]

God also has rules. And there are consequences for breaking them. So you actually support my argument. Thanks.
No, I’ve shown you how free will is a bogus concept.

[Cypress]

Can you believe that there are actually idiots who believe this? I can prove that they are wrong. If I take a sledgehammer and destroy their car, they will get mad at me. Think about that.

When it comes to Free Will, I always defer to Neil Peart of Rush..

"Free Will"
Rush
Music: Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson
Lyrics: Neil Peart

There are those who think that life
Has nothing left to chance
With a host of holy horrors
To direct our aimless dance

A planet of playthings
We dance on the strings
Of powers we cannot perceive
“The stars aren’t aligned –
Or the gods are malign”
Blame is better to give than receive

You can choose a ready guide
In some celestial voice
If you choose not to decide
You still have made a choice
You can choose from phantom fears
And kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that’s clear
I will choose free will.

There are those who think that
They were dealt a losing hand
The cards were stacked against them
They weren’t born in Lotus-Land.

All pre-ordained
A prisoner in chains
A victim of venomous fate
Kicked in the face
You can’t pray for a place
In Heaven’s unearthly estate

Each of us
A cell of awareness
Imperfect and incomplete
Genetic blends
With uncertain ends
On a fortune hunt
That’s far too fleet…

[kudzu]

Did you make this reply of your own free will?

Who knows?

[domer76]

Can you believe that there are actually idiots who believe this? I can prove that they are wrong. If I take a sledgehammer and destroy their car, they will get mad at me. Think about that.

Nope, free will is not a myth.

That is, unless you believe in an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent god. Then, free will is a bullshit copout for the existence of evil.

[domer76]

Those who deny God have no free will. They are slaves of the Devil and are compelled to do his bidding.

:lolup::rofl2:

[domer76]

no paradox......God is omiscient, we are not.......since we do not share his foreknowledge of our actions, we make our choices of our own volition.......

^Predictable theist copout.

[MAGA MAN]

Can you believe that there are actually idiots who believe this? I can prove that they are wrong. If I take a sledgehammer and destroy their car, they will get mad at me. Think about that.

Since a liberal man typically drives a Prius, you would be doing him a favor.

[USFREEDOM911]

Huh? Isn’t it using your free will to make the choice? If God truly gave us free will to decide, why will he punish us for using our free will?

I didnt give my children free will when it came to my rules. Their was no choice, they knew the rules, if they broke the rules there were consequences. I didn’t tell them, it’s your choice. I told them my rules and they complied or there was punishment. This idea we are free to choose and have free will given by the Biblical god is bogus.

Because good choices have good consequences and negative choices have negative consequences; plus even you admitted this and explained why there are punishments.

Did your children have free will to either follow your dictates or to not follow them??

God has also told us his rules. :good4u:

[USFREEDOM911]

No, I’ve shown you how free will is a bogus concept.

No you didn't; because first you ask why God would punish you and then your said your children would get punished for exercising their free will, if they ignored your rules.

[Jarod]

Years of psychotherapy unraveling the twisted knot of personality MIGHT result in someone living by free will.

[Jarod]

For the Religious Whacks, free will is sin.

[USFREEDOM911]

For the Religious Whacks, free will is sin.

Not necessarily; because negative choices have negative consequence and visa versa.

[Jarod]

Not necessarily; because negative choices have negative consequence and visa versa.

They believe choosing anything other than the "will of God" is a sin.

[USFREEDOM911]

They believe choosing anything other than the "will of God" is a sin.

And how are we to know what God wants us to do, outside of the 10 Commandments?

[domer76]

Because good choices have good consequences and negative choices have negative consequences; plus even you admitted this and explained why there are punishments.

Did your children have free will to either follow your dictates or to not follow them??

God has also told us his rules. :good4u:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent.
Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent.
Is He both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call Him God?

Epicurus

[USFREEDOM911]

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent.
Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent.
Is He both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call Him God?

Epicurus

1 - Free will of the individual
2 - Free will of the individual
3 - Free will of the individual
4 - Free will of the individual

Positive choices have positive consequences
and
Negative choices have negative consequences

[Grugore]

No, I’ve shown you how free will is a bogus concept.

Did you post this of your own free will, or did someone force you to do it? See? I just proved you have free will.

[Grugore]

What's going on here is that those who reject God are desperately trying to come up with an excuse for exercising their free will and rejecting God. Well. God ain't buying it. You've made your choice and you will pay the price. That's the truth.

[bhaktajan]

What People have to believe in is that the four-limbs, two-armed, one head, two leg, living creature is the Highest biological form ---and that God is the originating source of Personhood.

When you are saying "God" you are actually arguing about Personhood...And how that Personhood that might or might NOT be considered the Apex of existence.

We are non-material souls in a material world of material Personhood, where we wonder if their is a supreme non-material Person.

[USFREEDOM911]

What's going on here is that those who reject God are desperately trying to come up with an excuse for exercising their free will and rejecting God. Well. God ain't buying it. You've made your choice and you will pay the price. That's the truth.

And you are absolutely correct, in my opinion.


Someone doing the wrong thing, for the right reason, can be and is subjective; but denying God is their free will and looking surprised, that millisecond after leaving this plane, is just a little late.

[USFREEDOM911]

What People have to believe in is the the four-armed one head two leg living creature is the Highest biological form ---and God is the origin of Personhood.

You are saying "God" when you are arguing about Personhood that may only be considered the Apex of existence, or how it may NOT be the Apex of existence.

We are non-material souls in a material world of material Personhood, where we wonder if their is a supreme Person.

Having doubts is human nature and sometimes even believers have doubts; but totally denying is another situation.

And no, I don't believe in death bed absolution.

[Phantasmal]

Did you post this of your own free will, or did someone force you to do it? See? I just proved you have free will.
It’s fate, that determined my posting on this board, addiction compels me to keep doing it. :laugh:

[USFREEDOM911]

It’s fate, that determined my posting on this board, addiction compels me to keep doing it. :laugh:

Addiction is still free will.

[Grugore]

Having doubts is human nature and sometimes even believers have doubts; but totally denying is another situation.

And no, I don't believe in death bed absolution.

I have to disagree with you here. I would agree with you, if that someone knew about Christ for several years and waited until he's on his deathbed so he could be spared having to give up his sin and follow Christ. On the other hand, there is what Christ said to the thief on the cross.

[Phantasmal]

Free a subject that has been long debated, even with Christianity itself. Did Calvin agree with Luther? Is free will limited by our nature, that old nature, nurture thing. Do we have free will because we believe we have free will, but are we deceived?

I think it is a question humans will struggle with for some time.

[Jarod]

And how are we to know what God wants us to do, outside of the 10 Commandments?

Those in a fundamentalist church need only to ask the head minister. He will gladly tell them.

[domer76]

1 - Free will of the individual
2 - Free will of the individual
3 - Free will of the individual
4 - Free will of the individual

Positive choices have positive consequences
and
Negative choices have negative consequences

WHOOSH!

[Jarod]

What's going on here is that those who reject God are desperately trying to come up with an excuse for exercising their free will and rejecting God. Well. God ain't buying it. You've made your choice and you will pay the price. That's the truth.

This proves my point about conservative christianity. Free will is sin.

[Jarod]

The fact is that there is not always a right and wrong in every decision. Sometimes it is more clear than other times.

Should I kill Ralph because he stole my chickens last week... Clear choice, no. Murder is sin.

Should I kill Ralph who is currently stealing my chickens, the only thing I have to feed my kids... maybe.

Should I marry Sally from down the street or Martha from across the field... No clear choice, your choice.

[USFREEDOM911]

I have to disagree with you here. I would agree with you, if that someone knew about Christ for several years and waited until he's on his deathbed so he could be spared having to give up his sin and follow Christ. On the other hand, there is what Christ said to the thief on the cross.

But the thief wasn't asking for forgiveness for his behavior and instead just asked to be remembered, after he chastised the other thief for mocking Jesus.

[USFREEDOM911]

Free a subject that has been long debated, even with Christianity itself. Did Calvin agree with Luther? Is free will limited by our nature, that old nature, nurture thing. Do we have free will because we believe we have free will, but are we deceived?

I think it is a question humans will struggle with for some time.

I've explained this on my thread of:

My explanation of Free will (https://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?109733-My-explanation-of-Free-will)

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :D

[USFREEDOM911]

WHOOSH!

I'm sorry that my reply was to hard for you to understand. :D

[USFREEDOM911]

This proves my point about conservative christianity. Free will is sin.

:nonono:

What it explained is your assumption of your belief.

[PostmodernProphet]

why will he punish us for using our free will?

obviously, for using it to make a bad choice......


I didnt give my children free will when it came to my rules.

lol.....and none of your children ever broke your rules........you had miracle children!.......


if they broke the rules there were consequences

oh, now it just sounds like you did what God did.......

[PostmodernProphet]

No, I’ve shown you how free will is a bogus concept.

no......he's right......you've just described exactly what God did.......he made the rules, told people what the consequences of disobedience would be and punished them when they broke the rules........just like you and your kids.......

[PostmodernProphet]

1 - Free will of the individual
2 - Free will of the individual
3 - Free will of the individual
4 - Free will of the individual

Positive choices have positive consequences
and
Negative choices have negative consequences

domer still thinks Epicurus was logical......

[PostmodernProphet]

I think it is a question humans will struggle with for some time.

lol....if you didn't have free will you wouldn't bother struggling........

[PostmodernProphet]

But the thief wasn't asking for forgiveness for his behavior and instead just asked to be remembered, after he chastised the other thief for mocking Jesus.

actually, he was stating his belief that Jesus was the Christ........for that, he was told he would be in heaven with Christ........


39 One of the criminals who were hanged there was [a]hurling abuse at Him, saying, “Are You not the [b]Christ? Save Yourself and us!” 40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving [c]what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he was saying, “Jesus, remember me when You come [d]in Your kingdom!” 43 And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”

[Flash]

Can you believe that there are actually idiots who believe this? I can prove that they are wrong. If I take a sledgehammer and destroy their car, they will get mad at me. Think about that.

They can choose whether to have their car repaired or not.

[domer76]

I'm sorry that my reply was to hard for you to understand. :D

Nope. Very simple for a simpleton as yourself. Very binary.

[domer76]

domer still thinks Epicurus was logical......


Perfectly. Versus what? Eternal life? :rofl2:

[PostmodernProphet]

Domer.......his argument fails here.....

Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent.
he was not willing to make us mindless robots.......that is not malevolent.......

[USFREEDOM911]

obviously, for using it to make a bad choice......



lol.....and none of your children ever broke your rules........you had miracle children!.......



oh, now it just sounds like you did what God did.......

What is even more amazing; is that while typing out her response, she didn't even realize that she was trying to have her cake and eat it also. :laugh:

[PostmodernProphet]

she didn't even realize that she was trying to have her cake and eat it also. :laugh:
its what she chose to do, wasn't it?......

[USFREEDOM911]

Nope. Very simple for a simpleton as yourself. Very binary.

And yet; it still went beyond your ability to understand.

I'm sorry that I implied you were an idiot; because I thought you already knew you were an idiot. :good4u:

[USFREEDOM911]

its what she chose to do, wasn't it?......

Free will and all that. :D

[iolo]

It is a pity this discussion so quickly gets mixed up with historical discussions about 'God'. It seems to me that all sorts of evidence demonstrates that our behaviour is not at all a matter of free choice, but that our total reliance on consciousness as opposed to instinct makes us believe that it is.

[USFREEDOM911]

It is a pity this discussion so quickly gets mixed up with historical discussions about 'God'. It seems to me that all sorts of evidence demonstrates that our behaviour is not at all a matter of free choice, but that our total reliance on consciousness as opposed to instinct makes us believe that it is.

So you believe you were predestined to end up as a drunken, ignorant, Welsh asshole!! :good4u:

[Grugore]

But the thief wasn't asking for forgiveness for his behavior and instead just asked to be remembered, after he chastised the other thief for mocking Jesus.

I believe that as long as someone has not actually rejected God, they can always be saved...even if they confess with their dying breath.

[Grugore]

So you believe you were predestined to end up as a drunken, ignorant, Welsh asshole!! :good4u:

8361

[domer76]

Domer.......his argument fails here.....

he was not willing to make us mindless robots.......that is not malevolent.......

Looks like your god is not omnibenevolent. Either that, or not omnipotent.

Rather feckless, isn't he?

Re: the mindless robots. So, he gave us a brain to look at the world objectively. In your play world, he's going to punish those who have used their brains to conclude that his existence is a man-made myth? Let's add spiteful to feckless. :rofl2:

[domer76]

And yet; it still went beyond your ability to understand.

I'm sorry that I implied you were an idiot; because I thought you already knew you were an idiot. :good4u:

Binary thinking. The thought processes of simpletons.

[domer76]

I believe that as long as someone has not actually rejected God, they can always be saved...even if they confess with their dying breath.

Spiteful motherfucker, isn't he? What happened to the benevolent god?

[Frank Apisa]

What's going on here is that those who reject God are desperately trying to come up with an excuse for exercising their free will and rejecting God. Well. God ain't buying it. You've made your choice and you will pay the price. That's the truth.

This is the god you "worship."

A vindictive, vengeful, blood thirsty god.

Let's suppose the god exists for the sake of a question:


Why would you profess love and worship for this thing?

[Jarod]

Do what your priest/deacon/minister says or go to hell.

Chose free will and suffer eternal damnation.

Works well for men wanting to control the weak minded.

[Frank Apisa]

I believe that as long as someone has not actually rejected God, they can always be saved...even if they confess with their dying breath.

TRANSLATION: I blindly guess there is a god...the god that requires human sacrifices to be propitiated...and that the god expects humans to act in a certain way...and if they do not, they will suffer divine vengence which includes horrible suffering for all of eternity.

And Grugore pretends to love this god and worship it.

[PostmodernProphet]

Looks like your god is not omnibenevolent. Either that, or not omnipotent.


that seems to be what you've chosen to believe......freely......willfully.....


Re: the mindless robots. So, he gave us a brain to look at the world objectively. In your play world, he's going to punish those who have used their brains to conclude that his existence is a man-made myth?

obviously.......believe, good........not believe, bad.......it isn't complicated........nobody tricked you into making a bad choice.......

[PostmodernProphet]

Binary thinking. The thought processes of simpletons.

lol......you couldn't make the right choice when there were only two........do you really think he should have given you three?......

[PostmodernProphet]

Spiteful motherfucker, isn't he? What happened to the benevolent god?

???....he's only given you what you chose......

[PostmodernProphet]

TRANSLATION: I blindly guess there is a god...the god that requires human sacrifices to be propitiated...and that the god expects humans to act in a certain way...and if they do not, they will suffer divine vengence which includes horrible suffering for all of eternity.

And Grugore pretends to love this god and worship it.

you're certainly blind about a lot of things......

[domer76]

that seems to be what you've chosen to believe......freely......willfully.....



obviously.......believe, good........not believe, bad.......it isn't complicated........nobody tricked you into making a bad choice.......

Not what I believe, moron. You "Christians" present your god to others as all of those characteristics I listed. But, in actuality, those are myths as surely as your man-made god is.

Not believe=bad. Why is that? I thought your god wanted us to use our brains. Is he that needy that he requires mindless worship? Sounds like Trump.

[domer76]

lol......you couldn't make the right choice when there were only two........do you really think he should have given you three?......

Your moronic input is noted Nostradamus.

[domer76]

???....he's only given you what you chose......

:lolup::rofl2:

I choose sans your god.

[bhaktajan]

And no, I don't believe in death bed absolution.

What are Military Chaplins hoping for?

What are wounded Military hope for?

[PostmodernProphet]

Not believe=bad. Why is that?
As I said, its not that complicated.....
John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

[PostmodernProphet]

:lolup::rofl2:

I choose sans your god.

and that's what you'll get.......an eternity without my God......

[domer76]

As I said, its not that complicated.....
John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Circularity at its best.

“The Bible is the word of God"
"How can you be sure it's the word of God?"
"Because the Bible tells us so"
"Why believe the Bible?
"The Bible is infallible"
"How do you know it's infallible?"...

(Return to top)

[PostmodernProphet]

Circularity at its best.

“The Bible is the word of God"
"How can you be sure it's the word of God?"
"Because the Bible tells us so"
"Why believe the Bible?
"The Bible is infallible"
"How do you know it's infallible?"...

(Return to top)

if you didn't want to know the answer, why did you ask?......

[bhaktajan]

Circularity at its best.

“The Bible is the word of God"
"How can you be sure it's the word of God?"
"Because the Bible tells us so"
"Why believe the Bible?
"The Bible is infallible"
"How do you know it's infallible?"...

(Return to top)

Where is this written in the Bible?

I guess it is hearsay?

So this is what your confidant told you...and you are the herald?

“The CONTRACT is the word of THE AGREEMENT"
"How can you be sure it's the word of THE AGREEMENT?"
"Because the CONTRACT tells us so"
"Why believe the CONTRACT?
"The THE AGREEMENT is infallible"
"How do you know it's infallible?"...

(Return to top)

If you're confused...get a Lawyer and visit him with your check book in hand.

[domer76]

if you didn't want to know the answer, why did you ask?......

Don’t you get dizzy with all that spinning around in circles?

[domer76]

Where is this written in the Bible?

I guess it is hearsay?

So this is what your confidant told you...and you are the herald?

“The CONTRACT is the word of THE AGREEMENT"
"How can you be sure it's the word of THE AGREEMENT?"
"Because the CONTRACT tells us so"
"Why believe the CONTRACT?
"The THE AGREEMENT is infallible"
"How do you know it's infallible?"...

(Return to top)

If you're confused...get a Lawyer and visit him with your check book in hand.

Did I say that was written in the Bible?

What kind of drugs are you on? I want to avoid them.

[PostmodernProphet]

Don’t you get dizzy with all that spinning around in circles?

this may come as a surprise to you, but when some idiot asks "what does the Bible say about....." and we tell them what the Bible says, it isn't a circular argument.......

[domer76]

this may come as a surprise to you, but when some idiot asks "what does the Bible say about....." and we tell them what the Bible says, it isn't a circular argument.......

I never asked what the Bible said. I asked why nonbelief is bad. You countered with the circular Bible reference.

That’s all you Thumpers have. The book that claims it’s true because God said so and God said so in the Bible.

Laughable and pathetic at the same time.

[PostmodernProphet]

I never asked what the Bible said. I asked why nonbelief is bad. You countered with the circular Bible reference.

that's where the answer is found.......

[domer76]

that's where the answer is found.......

Circularity is the best you have? Guess your god skipped over you when he was giving out objective thinking brains. You merely got the lemming brain.

[USFREEDOM911]

I believe that as long as someone has not actually rejected God, they can always be saved...even if they confess with their dying breath.

The meaning of "rejection", is subjective and has a different meaning, depending on who's using it.

I'm not up on my scriptures; but I believe that there is something about he who doesn't recognize me in life, will not be recognized in death (or something to that).

My interpretation is that if you don't accept God, you have rejected Him.

And I've already said that I don't believe in Death Bed Absolution; because in that case, everyone could just deny God until the final moment.

[USFREEDOM911]

Binary thinking. The thought processes of simpletons.

So you do realize the failure in your thinking and conclusions.

Good job on finally being honest. :good4u:

[USFREEDOM911]

Spiteful motherfucker, isn't he? What happened to the benevolent god?

He was benevolent to grant you Free Will and what you do with it, reflects on you. :D

[USFREEDOM911]

Do what your priest/deacon/minister says or go to hell.

Chose free will and suffer eternal damnation.

Works well for men wanting to control the weak minded.

Has nothing to do with what a Priest or Deacon says; because it's totally depended upon your actions or lack of.

[USFREEDOM911]

What are Military Chaplins hoping for?

What are wounded Military hope for?

What they expect and what becomes of it, are two different things.

If Hitler asked for forgiveness, just before his demise, and a Priest granted it; then do you believe he's in Heaven?

[domer76]

So you do realize the failure in your thinking and conclusions.

Good job on finally being honest. :good4u:

Black or white. That’s the most complex you get.

[domer76]

He was benevolent to grant you Free Will and what you do with it, reflects on you. :D

Charles Manson lives a long life. Innocent babies die.

Failure on your part, moron. Your god is anything but benevolent.

[USFREEDOM911]

this may come as a surprise to you, but when some idiot asks "what does the Bible say about....." and we tell them what the Bible says, it isn't a circular argument.......

I've seen very few threads started, whos intent was to convince anyone that God exists (there may have been a few); but I've seen numerous threads started, with the intent to discredit those who do believe.

As I've said before:
I've never seen so much work put into trying to disprove something, that some don't believe in; in the first place.

Makes me wonder if they truly believe that God doesn't exist. :palm:

[USFREEDOM911]

Black or white. That’s the most complex you get.

When that's all the opposition (atheists) has to offer, then it's best to go with the flow; because other wise they just continue.

[USFREEDOM911]

Charles Manson lives a long life. Innocent babies die.

Failure on your part, moron. Your god is anything but benevolent.

Since we don't know the way or wherefore, the conclusions are based on your own ability to explain them; because what this is beginning to look like, is that you're really just terrified of things you can't understand or get an immediate answer to.

Why have you been allowed to survive, when there have those who think the world would be better off without you?

[domer76]

Since we don't know the way or wherefore, the conclusions are based on your own ability to explain them; because what this is beginning to look like, is that you're really just terrified of things you can't understand or get an immediate answer to.

Why have you been allowed to survive, when there have those who think the world would be better off without you?

I get it. Never question your god. More lemming thought in your part. “He works in mysterious ways.” Right? :rofl2:

Stupid question on your last one. Nobody that knows me thinks that. Only you fucking idiots that I expose on this forum might believe that. But then again, you ARE idiots.

[USFREEDOM911]

I get it. Never question your god. More lemming thought in your part. “He works in mysterious ways.” Right? :rofl2:

Stupid question on your last one. Nobody that knows me thinks that. Only you fucking idiots that I expose on this forum might believe that. But then again, you ARE idiots.

Because I may have doubts, over certain things, is doesn't mean I'm questioning God; but instead I am recognizing the fact that I don't understand.

OH, thrust me; there are probably plenty of people, starting with when you wee in HS, that wish you no longer existed. :D

[domer76]

Because I may have doubts, over certain things, is doesn't mean I'm questioning God; but instead I am recognizing the fact that I don't understand.

OH, thrust me; there are probably plenty of people, starting with when you wee in HS, that wish you no longer existed. :D

:lolup::rofl2:

Another one of your posts made out of sheer ignorance. You certainly are well-practiced at that.

What you don’t understand is that your god is fiction. Either that, or he is not the all-powerful god you “Christians” claim he is.

[USFREEDOM911]

:lolup::rofl2:

Another one of your posts made out of sheer ignorance. You certainly are well-practiced at that.

What you don’t understand is that your god is fiction. Either that, or he is not the all-powerful god you “Christians” claim he is.

What's ignorant about it??

Just because you have no faith, is not my problem; but instead will be yours.

Once again; it appears that you're having doubts and are just scared of that which you can't explain or understand.

[domer76]

What's ignorant about it??

Just because you have no faith, is not my problem; but instead will be yours.

Once again; it appears that you're having doubts and are just scared of that which you can't explain or understand.

Scared? :lolup::rofl2:

It’s fear that created the need for an eternal life, pally boy. If I feared your god. I certainly wouldn’t be referring to him as a spiteful, feckless motherfucker, would I?

Faith? I prefer logic and reality over supernatural myths.

What’s ignorant about you knowing me or the people from HS that want me dead? Are you really that stupid in addition to your ignorance? (Answer: Yeah, you are)

[bhaktajan]

Did I say that was written in the Bible?

What kind of drugs are you on? I want to avoid them.

If you are NOT quoting scripture or authoritative text, then you are either:


a] Proclaiming what "your trusted confidant told you" aka what "some one told you" and you're now proclaiming it as your own opinion?

or

b] You just make up proclamations and consider them great insights of enlightenment, like, "I proclaim therefore I am"?


Justify your authority, please.

[USFREEDOM911]

Scared? :lolup::rofl2:

It’s fear that created the need for an eternal life, pally boy. If I feared your god. I certainly wouldn’t be referring to him as a spiteful, feckless motherfucker, would I?

Faith? I prefer logic and reality over supernatural myths.

What’s ignorant about you knowing me or the people from HS that want me dead? Are you really that stupid in addition to your ignorance? (Answer: Yeah, you are)

But you have nothing but a fear of the unknown that has created in you, a desire to try and condemn that which you don't understand.

You won't realize your error, until you pass this earthly plane; but at that time, it will be to late to try and make amends.

YEAH, I bet everyone just loved you in HS. :laugh:

[bhaktajan]

What they expect and what becomes of it, are two different things.

If Hitler asked for forgiveness, just before his demise, and a Priest granted it; then do you believe he's in Heaven?

Your question is like a Zen Koan.

It also reminds me of the question:

"Is a 'Tornado' the tail of the Devil or the Finger of God?"


What they expect and what becomes of it, are two different things.

Destiny shows a stage where the Roles are played and it appears that some one Type-Casted all the performers in the cast.


do you believe he's in Heaven?


I believe that we know only what we are educated in/informed of/cultivated in.

You know what a dog seeks as heaven? IMO a dog seeks as heaven his master's status.

A wild antelope wishes they were a Lion as the lion bites into its neck.

A roach marvels at his crushing death and they still seek to escape.

A caught fish resigns its self after a few moments to collect themselves.


How can any one plan to go to a location without knowing what to expect? [Yes, if lucky, they can be led by a guide]

Most Jet fighter pilots or even more, test pilots fly trajectories via mechanisms that under went endless R&D ---so they knew where they where going.


If you want to get to Heaven ---you need precise and explicit and absolute knowledge of where your going.

How can I get to Las Vegas without knowing 99% of what is necessary to know?

Maps, reservations, meal menus, cash reserves, visa cards, toothbrushes etc etc etc.

I don't believe you can get to Las Vegas [ie Heaven] without first knowing all about the destination.

[bhaktajan]

fear of the unknown

I'd like to comment on the term "fear of the unknown" ---I think imo that the reality of fear is actually based on:

"fear of the known"

We, imo, are taught in real life experience "fear of the known".

Otherwise we'd be called stupid.

ie "Didn't you know to avoid that?!"

[domer76]

If you are NOT quoting scripture or authoritative text, then you are either:


a] Proclaiming what "your trusted confidant told you" aka what "some one told you" and you're now proclaiming it as your own opinion?

or

b] You just make up proclamations and consider them great insights of enlightenment, like, "I proclaim therefore I am"?


Justify your authority, please.

I was providing a classic example of Biblical circular reasoning. Did that go over your head?

I don’t need to justify jack shit to you, goofball. What the fuck medications are you on?

[domer76]

But you have nothing but a fear of the unknown that has created in you, a desire to try and condemn that which you don't understand.

You won't realize your error, until you pass this earthly plane; but at that time, it will be to late to try and make amends.

YEAH, I bet everyone just loved you in HS. :laugh:


Condemn? :lolup::rofl2:

I laugh at the mentality of lemmings like you. You don’t possess the intelligence to observe harsh reality.

You made the claim about my HS peers. Tell us, what HS wiuld that be? Then, we can narrow it to certain people who eanted me dead. You’ll fail, because you’re a complete idiot, posting out of sheer ignorance.

[USFREEDOM911]

Your question is like a Zen Koan.

It also reminds me of the question:

"Is a 'Tornado' the tail of the Devil or the Finger of God?"



Destiny shows a stage where the Roles are played and it appears that some one Type-Casted all the performers in the cast.




I believe that we know only what we are educated in/informed of/cultivated in.

You know what a dog seeks as heaven? IMO a dog seeks as heaven his master's status.

A wild antelope wishes they were a Lion as the lion bites into its neck.

A roach marvels at his crushing death and they still seek to escape.

A caught fish resigns its self after a few moments to collect themselves.


How can any one plan to go to a location without knowing what to expect? [Yes, if lucky, they can be led by a guide]

Most Jet fighter pilots or even more, test pilots fly trajectories via mechanisms that under went endless R&D ---so they knew where they where going.


If you want to get to Heaven ---you need precise and explicit and absolute knowledge of where your going.

How can I get to Las Vegas without knowing 99% of what is necessary to know?

Maps, reservations, meal menus, cash reserves, visa cards, toothbrushes etc etc etc.

I don't believe you can get to Las Vegas [ie Heaven] without first knowing all about the destination.

I'm not sure what the intent of your reply was; but after reading it and trying to figure it out, twice, I'll just let it go the way of others. :palm:

[USFREEDOM911]

Condemn? :lolup::rofl2:

I laugh at the mentality of lemmings like you. You don’t possess the intelligence to observe harsh reality.

You made the claim about my HS peers. Tell us, what HS wiuld that be? Then, we can narrow it to certain people who eanted me dead. You’ll fail, because you’re a complete idiot, posting out of sheer ignorance.

But you are condemning the belief that others have, while basing it only on your fear of the unknown.

The HS you attended.
The name only identifies where it is and not what your classmates thought of you. :D

[domer76]

But you are condemning the belief that others have, while basing it only on your fear of the unknown.

The HS you attended.
The name only identifies where it is and not what your classmates thought of you. :D

I have to laugh at you lemmings. When asked why non-belief is bad, the best you can do is your always circular practice of quoting from your book of fairytales. Pitiable.

I still see you fail on your other claim. You're used to that by now, aren't you?

[USFREEDOM911]

I have to laugh at you lemmings. When asked why non-belief is bad, the best you can do is your always circular practice of quoting from your book of fairytales. Pitiable.

I still see you fail on your other claim. You're used to that by now, aren't you?

Where have I quoted from anywhere; because you seem to be grasping at imaginary straws, in your fear??

[domer76]

Where have I quoted from anywhere; because you seem to be grasping at imaginary straws, in your fear??

Better review previous posts, pally boy.

So, go ahead. Tell us, in your own words, why non-belief is bad.

[USFREEDOM911]

Better review previous posts, pally boy.

So, go ahead. Tell us, in your own words, why non-belief is bad.

It has been explained over and over, in this threads and others, and you refusing to understand will not be helped by explaining it yet again.

[domer76]

It has been explained over and over, in this threads and others, and you refusing to understand will not be helped by explaining it yet again.

In your own words, pally. No Bible quote.

Why is non-belief bad?

[PostmodernProphet]

It has been explained over and over, in this threads and others, and you refusing to understand will not be helped by explaining it yet again.

to hell with him......../grins........

[USFREEDOM911]

In your own words, pally. No Bible quote.

Why is non-belief bad?

To what end?? ;dunno:

[USFREEDOM911]

to hell with him......../grins........

:good4u:

:laugh:

[StoneByStone]

Every action we take is just a result of cause and effect.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-will/480750/

[USFREEDOM911]

Every action we take is just a result of cause and effect.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-will/480750/

But we all have the FREE WILL to choose what action we will take. :good4u:

[PostmodernProphet]

stone is more concerned with affect than effect......

[StoneByStone]

But we all have the FREE WILL to choose what action we will take. :good4u:

You obviously didn't/can't read the article.

[USFREEDOM911]

You obviously didn't/can't read the article.

So you are suggesting that I DO have FREE WILL. :good4u:

[StoneByStone]

So you are suggesting that I DO have FREE WILL. :good4u:

Get someone to read the article to you, and you'll see why you don't.

[USFREEDOM911]

Get someone to read the article to you, and you'll see why you don't.

Which doesn't refute that I had FREE WILL to read it or not.
(not saying if I did or didn't :D)

[midcan5]

Free will, is a debate philosophers and others have been pondering forever. Consider how can I be morally responsible when I didn't choose anything in my life. My parents are a given, the egg and the gamete, one of a hundred million that made me wasn't my choice, my genetic makeup was not my choice, neither was my home environment, birth place, birth position, or even historic period. We are accidents in the sense that nothing about the fundamental us was our choice, and today all of our so called 'free' choices are dependent on who we already are. Did I choose who I am given all the givens? That is being human. Freedom like complete consciousness are necessary human assumptions. Why am I the way I am? Why are you? Consider extremes, there are madness claims in court or incompetent to understand claims. We acknowledge these examples but we fear to tread too deep into determinism. This is why boundaries are required, values and rights and wrongs are needed for human society to prevail. Today with DNA and other studies of tribal humans and our primate friends, the issue becomes even more complex. Consider too millions of years of evolution and thousands of years of cultural evolution. See pieces below and book linked at bottom.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0GN4urbA_c


Book here: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/62555.On_Human_Nature


Edit: I forgot to add this book, it covers several of brain/mind comments in video.

'Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain' by David Eagleman

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9827912-incognito



"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their own free will." Joseph Goebbels

[domer76]

Which doesn't refute that I had FREE WILL to read it or not.
(not saying if I did or didn't :D)

Your god already knew what your decision would be, didn’t he?

[iolo]

As I understand it, by the time we get around to consciously deciding to do anything, our muscles have already been working at it for measurable time. We more or less have to believe we have free will, I suppose, at this stage in our development. Be a merciful thing to convince ourselves otherwise, though, as we move on to self-destruction!

[USFREEDOM911]

Your god already knew what your decision would be, didn’t he?

Nope - FREE WILL!!

But I know you NEED to only have things to be BLACK or WHITE. :good4u:

[domer76]

Nope - FREE WILL!!

But I know you NEED to only have things to be BLACK or WHITE. :good4u:

Really? What’s free about your will if your god aleady knows the upcoming events?

Dumbfuck

[USFREEDOM911]

Really? What’s free about your will if your god aleady knows the upcoming events?

Dumbfuck

I started a thread explain this, you fucking dumbass. :D

Try thinking outside of that box you call your safe place. :good4u:

[domer76]

I started a thread explain this, you fucking dumbass. :D

Try thinking outside of that box you call your safe place. :good4u:

You haven’t explained shit, dumbfuck. Only your laughable gullibility.

[USFREEDOM911]

You haven’t explained shit, dumbfuck. Only your laughable gullibility.

Just because my answer scared you, doesn't mean I didn't explain it; you fucking unintelligent waste of space and air. :D

[domer76]

Just because my answer scared you, doesn't mean I didn't explain it; you fucking unintelligent waste of space and air. :D

Nothing about you scares me, dumbfuck. Except perhaps that a fucking ignoramus of your magnitude can breed.

[USFREEDOM911]

Nothing about you scares me, dumbfuck. Except perhaps that a fucking ignoramus of your magnitude can breed.

But you are scared of my answer, which is proven by your inability to respond like an adult and your inability to acknowledge that there was an answer. :good4u:

[domer76]

But you are scared of my answer, which is proven by your inability to respond like an adult and your inability to acknowledge that there was an answer. :good4u:

:lolup::rofl2: