Can one prove god exists? or doesn't?

[Wilhelm Zenz]

MANILA, Philippines (AP) — The Philippine president, who recently sparked outrage for calling God stupid, has courted new controversy in his largely Roman Catholic country by saying he will resign if anybody can prove that God exists.
https://religionnews.com/2018/07/07/duterte-vows-to-resign-if-anybody-can-prove-god-exists/

[Jack]

No.

[Grugore]

Nothing physical can create itself. The universe is physical. That means it was created. That means God exists. Simple logic.

[Jack]

Who invented God?

Grugore: Oh, He ALWAYS existed.
Agnostic: Maybe the Universe 'always' existed'?
Grugore: That's different.
Agnostic: Yeah, sure. In YOUR brain.

[Frank Apisa]

There is no way to prove any gods exist...and no way to prove than no gods exist.

All anyone can do is to make a blind guess either way.

[Jack]

There is no way to prove any gods exist...and no way to prove than no gods exist.

All anyone can do is to make a blind guess either way.

Thanks, Frank. This seems fairly obvious to most people. (I guess there will always be people that believe in the Occult amongst us?)

[archives]

MANILA, Philippines (AP) — The Philippine president, who recently sparked outrage for calling God stupid, has courted new controversy in his largely Roman Catholic country by saying he will resign if anybody can prove that God exists.
https://religionnews.com/2018/07/07/duterte-vows-to-resign-if-anybody-can-prove-god-exists/

No and no, that is why it is called faith, and the Philippine is whacky, and not very politically astute

[Guno צְבִי]

Cannot prove a negative

The onus is on that one who claims there is something

[Nordberg]

the president's job is safe

[evince]

Nothing physical can create itself. The universe is physical. That means it was created. That means God exists. Simple logic.

utter poppycock

[evince]

No and no, that is why it is called faith, and the Philippine is whacky, and not very politically astute

this current leader is an EVIL man no matter what he claims to believe

[Grugore]

utter poppycock

Really? I suppose you can give me an example of something creating itself. Take your time.

[PostmodernProphet]

Really? I suppose you can give me an example of something creating itself. Take your time.

desh's paranoia about voting fraud by Republicans.......

[evince]

Cannot prove a negative

The onus is on that one who claims there is something

yes you also cant prove that bright yellow balloon people don't exist on 421B in the Ultian galaxy


they might

and so Incan Gods might be real because you cant prove they Don't exist.

its the same fir ALL claimed Gods


there are also no monsters

No matter how many humans believed in the Cracken for hundreds of years it turns out it really never did exist

[domer76]

Grugore, along with TDAK, the stupidest motherfucker on the forum.

[Fentoine Lum]

Nothing physical can create itself. The universe is physical. That means it was created. That means God exists. Simple logic.

Simple bullshit, not logic.

[Grugore]

yes you also cant prove that bright yellow balloon people don't exist on 421B in the Ultian galaxy


they might

and so Incan Gods might be real because you cant prove they Don't exist.

its the same fir ALL claimed Gods


there are also no monsters

No matter how many humans believed in the Cracken for hundreds of years it turns out it really never did exist

There is video footage of squids that are up to 30 meters in length.

[evince]

and?


go read about the Craken

[Grugore]

Simple bullshit, not logic.

All right. Show me something that created itself.

[Frank Apisa]

Cannot prove a negative

The onus is on that one who claims there is something

A negative can be proven.

But one cannot prove a negative so universal as "There are no gods."

Give this one a shot, though.

Make the assertion, "There are no live African Elephants living in my basement right now."

See if that cannot be proven.

[Frank Apisa]

All right. Show me something that created itself.

Why do people like you gratuitously claim that "existence" was "created" and then insist it must therefore require a "creator?"

You do not know if existence was created or not.

EVERYTHING...including the physical UNIVERSE...may not have been "created"...but may always have existed.

[Grugore]

Still waiting for an example of something that created itself. Anyone?

[NiftyNiblick]

Nothing physical can create itself. The universe is physical. That means it was created. That means God exists. Simple logic.

Maybe some sort of god created the sub atomic particles whose totally random confluence constitutes the entire universe.

That possible "supreme being" obviously exerts no influence over that confluence of particles so why should anybody care if it exists or not?

The universe is random.
For every beautiful sunrise over a mountain stream,
there's a malignant tumor forming in an innocent baby's head or something just as bad.
Thus, the existence or absence of a god is completely irrelevant.

[Grugore]

Maybe some sort of god created the sub atomic particles whose totally random confluence constitutes the entire universe.

That possible "supreme being" obviously exerts no influence over that confluence of particles so why should anybody care if it exists or not?

The universe is random.
For every beautiful sunrise over a mountain stream,
there's a malignant tumor forming in an innocent baby's head or something just as bad.
Thus, the existence or absence of a god is completely irrelevant.

You are a fool. What you just posted proves it. I'd explain, but I'd just be wasting my breath. For instance, I could mention the universal physical constants. Those aren't random like you claim. They are immaterial, yet they affect the material. Without them, the universe would not even exist. Where did they come from? They are not matter or energy. No one knows what they are, or how they effect anything at all. I say that they are the power of God. The power that binds all things. It's as good an explanation as any scientific "theories".

[NiftyNiblick]

You are a fool. What you just posted proves it. I'd explain, but I'd just be wasting my breath. For instance, I could mention the universal physical constants. Those aren't random like you claim. They are immaterial, yet they affect the material. Without them, the universe would not even exist. Where did they come from? They are not matter or energy. No one knows what they are, or how they effect anything at all. I say that they are the power of God. The power that binds all things. It's as good an explanation as any scientific "theories".

Above are the musings of a complete idiot.
You really need institutional care, Grugore

[Jack]

Above are the musings of a complete idiot.
You really need institutional care, Grugore


hahahahahahahahahahahaha ..........

(my apologies to Grugore, but that was pretty good)

[Grugore]

Above are the musings of a complete idiot.
You really need institutional care, Grugore

Perhaps you could back that up by telling us why the universal physical constants exist. As I said, they are not material in nature. In fact, they are not made out of anything. You could even say that they are nothing. Yet they effect everything.

[Frank Apisa]

Still waiting for an example of something that created itself. Anyone?

What difference does it make?

Perhaps "existence (the UNIVERSE) was NOT created.

You are just gratuitously asserting that it was "created" so that you can demand the need for a "creator."

The question, "Why is there a need for a 'creator' for something that was not 'created?'"

Both would contain a gratuitous assertion...one, that existence was created and the other, that existence was NOT created.

Stop with the bullshit.

[Frank Apisa]

Perhaps you could back that up by telling us why the universal physical constants exist. As I said, they are not material in nature. In fact, they are not made out of anything. You could even say that they are nothing. Yet they effect everything.

Why don't you just acknowledge that you blind guess that a GOD exists...IS NOTHING MORE THAN A BLIND GUESS?

Stop with the bullshit.

You cannot establish that a GOD exists using reason, logic, science, or math. You cannot establish that NO gods exist that way either.

All we can do is to make blind guesses in either direction (or not make a guess)...

...and in YOUR case, to pretend you are making a logical case.

[Cypress]

MANILA, Philippines (AP) — The Philippine president, who recently sparked outrage for calling God stupid, has courted new controversy in his largely Roman Catholic country by saying he will resign if anybody can prove that God exists.
https://religionnews.com/2018/07/07/duterte-vows-to-resign-if-anybody-can-prove-god-exists/

That is exactly the challenge made by Lenin, Stalin, and the totalitarian soviet communists.
And generally made while they were executing Orthodox priests.

It is a metaphysical question that is beyond the realm of scientific inquiry.

Reason and free will are the realm of the educated human. But I am not going to deny that the nature of ultimate reality is a philosophical question that is not suited to the limitations of natural science and mathematics.

[canceled.2021.2]

I can prove God exists

He saved us from that cunt Hillary Clinton and brought us Donald J Trump

[Flash]

Nothing physical can create itself. The universe is physical. That means it was created. That means God exists. Simple logic.

Can something spiritual create itself?

[Grugore]

Can something spiritual create itself?

No matter what else you believe, it is a fact that there must be a cause that was not caused. Otherwise, you have an infinite regression of causes, which is impossible. There must be something or someone that was the original cause of everything.

[domer76]

Still waiting for an example of something that created itself. Anyone?

Apparently, you think your god did.

[Frank Apisa]

No matter what else you believe, it is a fact that there must be a cause that was not caused. Otherwise, you have an infinite regression of causes, which is impossible. There must be something or someone that was the original cause of everything.

Be man enough to acknowledge that EXISTENCE may always have EXISTED.

This sophomoric thesis of yours about an uncaused cause...is pathetic. It was pathetic when Aquinas proposed it...and it is even more pathetic the way you are offering it.

[bhaktajan]

"EXISTENCE may always have EXISTED."

This sophomoric thesis of yours about an uncaused cause.

"EXISTENCE may always have EXISTED."
or
"a cause that was not caused"

Both add up to the same thing!

[bhaktajan]

We are souls in the material ocean of Life [birth & death in-separately paired] in a world base on physical laws of duality [ie: black/white; up/down; left/right; male/female] etc.

The singularity is summed up in the walking talking thinking creature at the top of the heap of it all.

We are afloat [or submerged] in an ocean. We are bobbing in a vast place of inert elements ---where we play house--- the common denominator is personhood.

[bhaktajan]

Frank,

What is God?

What is there to prove about this God?

If you were shown God...then what?

Have you an opinion/plan/speech ready ...for when you would be face-to-face with God?

You don't know what to expect? You don't know what to do in the presence of God?

Lodge complaints? Ask for a ham sandwich? Expect your feet to washed?

What preparations should an educated and sincere person make if it is God's existence is proven?

What preparations should an educated and sincere person make if it is God's existence is NOT proven?

[Frank Apisa]

Frank,

What is God?

What is there to prove about this God?

If you were shown God...then what?

Have you an opinion/plan/speech ready ...for when you would be face-to-face with God?

You don't know what to expect? You don't know what to do in the presence of God?

Lodge complaints? Ask for a ham sandwich? Expect your feet to washed?

What preparations should an educated and sincere person make if it is God's existence is proven?

What preparations should an educated and sincere person make if it is God's existence is NOT proven?

What in the fuck are you babbling on about?

[bhaktajan]

What in the fuck are you babbling on about?

a] Answer the questions!

What is God?

What is there to prove about this God?

If you were shown God...then what?

Have you an opinion/plan/speech ready ...for when you would be face-to-face with God?

You don't know what to expect? You don't know what to do in the presence of God?

Lodge complaints? Ask for a ham sandwich? Expect your feet to washed?

What preparations should an educated and sincere person make if it is God's existence is proven?

What preparations should an educated and sincere person make if it is God's existence is NOT proven?

b] If you don't answer ---then you are trolling about a topic that you can't even identify.

Identify God!

You can identify Elvis.
You can identify 14 karat Gold.
You can identify all sorts of sea life.
You can identify many car models.
You can identify pornography.
You can identify a mugger in a line up.

Please identify God.


Blathering on and on about the existence of something you cannot identify!

[Frank Apisa]

a] Answer the questions!

What is God?

What is there to prove about this God?

If you were shown God...then what?

Have you an opinion/plan/speech ready ...for when you would be face-to-face with God?

You don't know what to expect? You don't know what to do in the presence of God?

Lodge complaints? Ask for a ham sandwich? Expect your feet to washed?

What preparations should an educated and sincere person make if it is God's existence is proven?

What preparations should an educated and sincere person make if it is God's existence is NOT proven?

b] If you don't answer ---then you are trolling about a topic that you can't even identify.

Identify God!

You can identify Elvis.
You can identify 14 karat Gold.
You can identify all sorts of sea life.
You can identify many car models.
You can identify pornography.
You can identify a mugger in a line up.

Please identify God.


Blathering on and on about the existence of something you cannot identify!

Apparently you are a fucking nut case.

Crawl back to where you emerged...and sleep for a while.

You are out of control.

[bhaktajan]

Q. Can one prove Frank Aipsa has a girlfriend? or doesn't?

A. WHAT THE FUCK IS A FRANK AIPSA? [But Wait! I don't care and don't want to know]

That you can be 100% sure of!

[gfm7175]

Nope. One can not prove that god(s) exist or don't exist.

Religion is an open functional system. Open functional systems do not have the power of proof.

[Guno צְבִי]

A negative can be proven.

But one cannot prove a negative so universal as "There are no gods."

Give this one a shot, though.

Make the assertion, "There are no live African Elephants living in my basement right now."

See if that cannot be proven.

the goyim god can be disproven using their own goy bible

[Frank Apisa]

the goyim god can be disproven using their own goy bible

Whatever. The "goyim" god...is the "non-goyim god" also. It was fucked up right from the beginning.

Best that god had never been invented.

In any case, I do not want to get into that horseshit.

I am saying that a negative can be proven...but some negatives are too universal to be proven.

Some positives cannot be proven either.

[davidpratt]

not even the simplest of physical thing can create itself, carry out the tasks it is made for. And we are talking about millions of species that are co existing, reproducing in a world that is beyond our frame of logic. Does that not explain the fact that there has to be a Creator who has made this system possible. For those who still believe that there is no God, do you honestly believe the iphone could have been made on its own. It's just a simple example

[Frank Apisa]

not even the simplest of physical thing can create itself, carry out the tasks it is made for. And we are talking about millions of species that are co existing, reproducing in a world that is beyond our frame of logic. Does that not explain the fact that there has to be a Creator who has made this system possible. For those who still believe that there is no God, do you honestly believe the iphone could have been made on its own. It's just a simple example

So...your version of logic say that what we humans see...IS TOO COMPLICATED TO EXIST WITHOUT A CREATOR.

And then you suppose something MUCH, MUCH, MUCH MORE COMPLICATED exists...and that it did not have a creator.

Can you truly not see the absurdity of that thinking, David?

The originator of this thread offers arguments so poor they do not even qualify as logic. Your comments are of the same ilk.

Grow the spine to acknowledge that you do not know if any gods exist or not. It will be a growing-up experience for you.

[hypGnosis]

Got to take you to task here davidpratt.

You claim:


not even the simplest of physical thing can create itself, ...


It appears that your reserve autogenetic properties/attributes for NON-PHYSICAL things?

Do you have an example of some thing that did create itself?

If non-physical things are capable of creating themselves, then how do you detect their existence?
.